Black French Comic arrested for firing plastic at bailiff who came to collect "racism" fines

[enhanced_deficit]

This story now has not only international but US connection too. Black French Comedian with mixed race heritage (but not exactly Obama of France) and inventor of controversial "anti-establishment" hand gesture quenelle made international headlines recently after famed footballer Nicolas Anelka performed his quenelle hand jesture during an English Premier League match (Nicolas Anelka under FA investigation for quenelle gesture - ESPN FC (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&ved=0CEwQFjAGOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fespnfc.com%2Fnews%2Fstory%2F_%2Fi d%2F1665373%2Fnicolas-anelka-fa-investigation-quenelle-gesture&ei=zrDhUorXKtLKsQTu64LQAQ&usg=AFQjCNEZSqXdfJaCugTxbqjel6VhOaEuog&bvm=bv.59930103,d.cWc) )
.
Recently apparently ADL discovered a 3 years old photo of NBA star Tony Parker making the same hand jesture with Dieudonné.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/uploads/3/dieudonne_tony_parker_01-21-2014.jpg
NBA Star Tony Parker and Dieudonne doing the Quenelle gesture from Instagram


Could such laws come to US in years ahead?



(FRANCE 24 with AFP)

French comic Dieudonné detained for 'assault' on bailiff

Latest update : 2014-01-22
Controversial French comic Dieudonné M’bala M’bala was taken into custody for several hours on Wednesday for allegedly assaulting a bailiff who came to his home earlier this week to collect fines Dieudonné owes for racism offences.

Dieudonné – who owes the state thousands of euros in unpaid fines for offences that include racial discrimination and hate speech – was questioned by police along with his girlfriend over the alleged attack, his lawyer said on Wednesday.

Bailiffs turned up at the comedian's home in central France on Monday night to demand payment for the fines and tried to enter by climbing over a fence, said Dieudonné’s lawyer, Sanjay Mirabeau.
"Dieudonné's partner and their security staff asked them to leave," he said.
According to sources close to the investigation, one of the bailiffs says he was assaulted by Dieudonné and targeted with rubber bullets. A bullet-launching device was later discovered during a search of his home, investigators said.
The couple has filed their own complaint accusing the bailiff of breaking into their home.
"Dieudonné wants to be left alone, or at least to be treated in a normal manner, that is to say, for the bailiffs to turn up at his house during regular hours," Mirabeau said.

Comic act banned
Dieudonné, whose act has been widely condemned as being anti-Semitic, has been banned from performing (http://www.france24.com/en/node/5478074) in several French cities on the grounds of maintaining public order as authorities probe whether he should face charges for breaking French laws against "inciting racial hatred".
French President François Hollande has publicly backed the ban (http://www.france24.com/en/node/5477178) on his performances.
Dieudonné, whose father is from Cameroon and whose mother is French Caucasian, is also known for his trademark “quenelle” salute (http://www.france24.com/en/node/5475512), a straight-armed downward gesture that some have likened to a reverse Nazi salute.
The comic says the gesture is merely an anti-establishment salute.
Dieudonné made international headlines after footballer Nicolas Anelka performed his quenelle during an English Premier League match. Anelka faces a lengthy ban after being charged by the Football Association (http://www.france24.com/en/node/5480800) over the salute on grounds of racism.

Anelka has until Thursday to respond to the charge and, if found guilty, faces a minimum five-game suspension under new anti-discrimination measures introduced last year.

http://www.france24.com/en/20140122-anti-semitic-french-comic-dieudonne-detained-assault-bailiff/








Related


http://cdn2.independent.ie/sport/soccer/article29930098.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/PANews_N0186771390144135680A_I1.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=uB8bEy2gaXrm1M&tbnid=vQGuQ8bMtNxgUM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.ie%2Fsport%2Fzoop la-to-end-west-brom-sponsorship-over-anelkas-quenelle-gesture-29932745.html&ei=0azhUvHWNtG1kQf5koGgAg&bvm=bv.59568121,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNHrOw6vl-90iPh6AOAbH-QF1zJLcw&ust=1390558376710414)

French Soccer player's suspected goal celeberation hand gesture under investigation (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?436633-French-Soccer-player-s-suspected-goal-celeberation-hand-gesture-under-investigation&)

Nicolas Anelka has denied making a racist gesture (Picture: Getty Images) Nicolas Anelka has denied his controversial goal celebration against West Ham was racist and has posted a picture on Twitter of US president Barack Obama making the same gesture.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnGL9ACcAApAyr.jpg

http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/29/nicolas-anelka-posts-picture-of-barack-obama-making-the-quenelle-as-he-denies-racism-4244315/



Photo shows French minister with men performing quenelle
Tuesday 31 December 2013 08.20 EST

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/online/2013/12/31/1388504520579/Manuel-Valls-with-a-group-005.jpg
Manuel Valls with a group of young people in Millau, some of whom are making the quenelle gesture. Photograph: Eva Tissot/PHOTOPQR/Le Midi Libre


Photos of various people including soldiers and firefighters making the quenelle gesture circulating
http://boe.publiatis.com/documents/%7BED5B1581-A82A-452A-A55A-70552A0F7B67%7D/accounts/%7B1DC91D5B-932F-447B-A4D8-137AF119D0F5%7D/quenelle2.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=bCRg0LFVsBAMsM&tbnid=9ART_WIyYUGliM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lepoint.fr%2Fsociete%2Fexclus if-une-quenelle-qui-reste-sur-l-estomac-de-l-armee-10-09-2013-1722700_23.php&ei=Ma3hUoSPBdL6kQfLhoCQAw&bvm=bv.59568121,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNE1VAgT0p0hbePxXQ1cZetAOyZA3A&ust=1390558548363441)


The Quenelle: Fascist or Fad?
Official Blogs from the Anti-Defamation League


http://www.lepoint.fr/images/2013/09/10/quenelles-1908678-jpg_1710610.JPG (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=bCRg0LFVsBAMsM&tbnid=atKOQz3C4Is42M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lepoint.fr%2Fsociete%2Fexclus if-une-quenelle-qui-reste-sur-l-estomac-de-l-armee-10-09-2013-1722700_23.php&ei=xK7hUru2DMarkAekq4GIDw&bvm=bv.59568121,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNE1VAgT0p0hbePxXQ1cZetAOyZA3A&ust=1390558548363441)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VdpidRWDb7E/UmA9Uf94DnI/AAAAAAAAUEg/AbMYpE36SEQ/s640/quenelle.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=tfoUsMfNlhLxlM&tbnid=zToIwWas6TBLZM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fffffound.com%2Fimage%2Fd48dce53bf 88938c19cf97a263ca9834fb563f6a&ei=ca_hUovQLIngkQem14GgBA&bvm=bv.59568121,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNE1VAgT0p0hbePxXQ1cZetAOyZA3A&ust=1390558548363441)

[jmdrake]

Ummmmm......huh? Wiping your hand on your shoulder is racist? :confused:

[angelatc]

I have never heard of this before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)

[juleswin]

Do we have any picture of real Nazis(sorry, Obama doesn't count as one) doing the salute? If not, how can these journalist get away with claiming it was invented by the Nazis?

[Origanalist]

Ummmmm......huh? Wiping your hand on your shoulder is racist? :confused:

Why not? Everything else is.

[enhanced_deficit]

known for his trademark “quenelle” salute (http://www.france24.com/en/node/5475512), a straight-armed downward gesture that some have likened to a reverse Nazi salute.
The comic says the gesture is merely an anti-establishment salute.

"some" claim above but the iventor says it is "anti establishment" as do the people being banned/fined etc for making this gesture.

So it is probably "controversial" and better to wait before trying it out until all the facts have come out. But both the Comedian and the gesture seem to be getting popular in France and Europe it seems.

ASVEL Villeurbanne opened a disciplinary proceedings against Georgi Joseph.
The player was photographed in December 23 making the quenelle gesture.

http://www.sport.fr/photos/pro-a-l-asvel-convoque-joseph-pour-une-quenelle-333833.jpg
http://www.sport.fr/img/credittxt.gif

http://www.sportando.net/eng/europe/france/71149/asvel-open-disciplinary-proceedings-vs-joseph-for-quenelle-gesture.html


http://www.slate.fr/sites/default/files/photos/600901_140859519433470_1223127578_n.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PQ3G3vD4PUo3YM&tbnid=uU-4JaZAQKHmiM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.fr%2Fstory%2F74429%2Fdi eudonne-quenelle&ei=irvhUtO0FcbYkQeE5oHABw&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFHTRPti7rnO3HNd-533XoiS4mjsw&ust=1390611228669144)http://rso17.unblog.fr/files/2013/09/dieudonnc3a9.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PQ3G3vD4PUo3YM&tbnid=uU-4JaZAQKHmiM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Frso17.unblog.fr%2F2013%2F12%2F30% 2Ffrance-les-nationaliste-francais-interdit-mes-il-invite-au-parlement-les-milices-et-officines-israeliennes%2F&ei=PLzhUqmUBJDykQfvlIG4DA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFHTRPti7rnO3HNd-533XoiS4mjsw&ust=1390611228669144)

http://www.speakersaction.com/sites/default/files/gesture4-edited.jpg


Found this video with English subtitles where he talks about Palestine and settlers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypIqpclCXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypIqpclCXE

[Carson]

Ummmmm......huh? Wiping your hand on your shoulder is racist? :confused:


From the wiki that hands is indicating how far up the other arm is being shoved.

As for racist I think we may have to watch the comedians skit.

[enhanced_deficit]

From the wiki that hands is indicating how far up the other arm is being shoved.

As for racist I think we may have to watch the comedians skit.


Here it is:

http://rso17.unblog.fr/files/2013/09/dieudonnc3a9.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PQ3G3vD4PUo3YM&tbnid=uU-4JaZAQKHmiM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Frso17.unblog.fr%2F2013%2F12%2F30% 2Ffrance-les-nationaliste-francais-interdit-mes-il-invite-au-parlement-les-milices-et-officines-israeliennes%2F&ei=PLzhUqmUBJDykQfvlIG4DA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFHTRPti7rnO3HNd-533XoiS4mjsw&ust=1390611228669144)




Anelka tweeted this:

French Jewish leader: Quenelle not always anti-Semitic

Soccer star Nicolas Anelka, facing ban for celebrating goal with controversial salute, tweets Roger Cukierman’s newly nuanced assessment

By JTA January 22, 2014

..when performed at a place “without any Jewish connection, it seems to me like an anarchist gesture against the establishment, which, it seems, does not merit severe punishment,” he said.

Anelka posted the Le Figaro video of Cukierman on Twitter with the message: “Nothing to add.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/french-jewish-leader-quenelle-not-always-anti-semitic

[ClydeCoulter]

Anything to pull the anti-Semitism card.

He used it in comedy, then used it in a poster when running for political office as anti-Zionism party(?)

So, again, anti-Zionism is conflated with anti-Semitism, which is not the same thing. And, the gesture is neither in and of itself.

[ClydeCoulter]

Here it is:

http://rso17.unblog.fr/files/2013/09/dieudonnc3a9.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=PQ3G3vD4PUo3YM&tbnid=uU-4JaZAQKHmiM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Frso17.unblog.fr%2F2013%2F12%2F30% 2Ffrance-les-nationaliste-francais-interdit-mes-il-invite-au-parlement-les-milices-et-officines-israeliennes%2F&ei=PLzhUqmUBJDykQfvlIG4DA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFHTRPti7rnO3HNd-533XoiS4mjsw&ust=1390611228669144)

Anyone speak French that could give us the lowdown on the above link (click on picture)?

[milgram]

In the 1920s the British censors banned a surrealist film, giving the explanation: "If this film has a meaning, it is doubtless objectionable."

BTW Obama with Mr. and Mrs. Jay-Z are actually doing "dirt off your shoulder" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nlOeqEIHXY) rather than "quenelle"

[rpfocus]

OH NOES! The "Quenelle" is coming to get us all! Damn you, quenelle, damn you all to hellllllllllllllllll!

[jmdrake]

Why not? Everything else is.

But...but...but...black people are doing it and black people can't be racist. And Obama's doing it......

http://overyonderlust.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/head-explode.jpg

[jmdrake]

From the wiki that hands is indicating how far up the other arm is being shoved.

As for racist I think we may have to watch the comedians skit.

Sooo....what are Obama, Jay-z and Beyonce' trying to tell the American people?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnGL9ACcAApAyr.jpg

(As if we didn't already know what was happening to us.)

[ClydeCoulter]

Sooo....what are Obama, Jay-z and Beyonce' trying to tell the American people?

this:


In the 1920s the British censors banned a surrealist film, giving the explanation: "If this film has a meaning, it is doubtless objectionable."

BTW Obama with Mr. and Mrs. Jay-Z are actually doing "dirt off your shoulder" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nlOeqEIHXY) rather than "quenelle"

[enhanced_deficit]

So, again, anti-Zionism is conflated with anti-Semitism, which is not the same thing. And, the gesture is neither in and of itself.

In his video, he seems pro Palestinians (semites), so he seems very philo-semitic.

[enhanced_deficit]

BTW Obama with Mr. and Mrs. Jay-Z are actually doing "dirt off your shoulder" rather than "quenelle"


What is the difference between the two? They look similar to the untrained eye.


http://cdn2-public.ladmedia.fr/var/public/storage/images/news/photos/photos-teddy-riner-samir-nasri-tony-parker-avant-nicolas-anelka-ils-ont-reproduit-le-signe-de-la-quenelle-483949/teddy-riner-483951/5835685-1-fre-FR/Teddy-Riner_portrait_w674.png (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=V7v05YBmBp8kpM&tbnid=ZWJ-Dg0px8PQhM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.public.fr%2FNews%2FPhotos%2FP hotos-Teddy-Riner-Samir-Nasri-Tony-Parker-avant-Nicolas-Anelka-ils-ont-reproduit-le-signe-de-la-quenelle-483949&ei=oA7jUuy-DcfxkQfsgoDwBA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNE-o-qmLja0T_PqcP1zx7jA0Wuq5g&ust=1390698295444364)

[Anti Federalist]

Racism...you're doing it wrong.

http://bermudaisanotherworld.org/forum/gallery/241_18_11_08_7_28_54.jpg


But...but...but...black people are doing it and black people can't be racist. And Obama's doing it......

http://overyonderlust.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/head-explode.jpg

[juvanya]

This is what bothers me about ADL and many in the Jewish/Zionist community. Its relation to nazism is weak, only because of that comedian. Ive probably done the same thing rubbing my shoulder and all. And guess what, I am Jewish and Zionist. All they do is cry antisemitism over everything and ignore the real issues facing Jews and Israel.

[enhanced_deficit]

All they do is cry antisemitism over everything and ignore the real issues facing Jews and Israel.

They are not the only ones though, various other "pro Israel" groups had pressured Dunkin Donuts to pull this ad featuring Rachel Ray because it was "pro terrorism":

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwouFFSnuw9esJxtYZ0SyY2cNYjQeJb IYIqzmMMscfruno07iFlQ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QfMn2GSammKZ0M&tbnid=x-onXI-hZl8ISM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbehindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com %2F2008_05_01_archive.html&ei=VR_jUpWQMsH8kQeq74DADQ&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNEa1X1j86Ik_AnD9QPqDuu2cE4WfA&ust=1390702619580759)


Dunkin' Donuts Pulls Rachael Ray Ad Over 'Terror' Symbolism (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/05/29/dunkin-donuts-pulls-rachael-ray-ad-over-terror-symbolism)
www.foxnews.com/.../dunkin-donuts-pulls-rachael...‎
May 29, 2008 - BOSTON – Dunkin' Donuts has pulled an online advertisement featuring Rachael Ray after complaints that a fringed black-and-white scarf that ...

[milgram]

What is the difference between the two? They look the same to the untrained eye.

Identifying thought crime isn't as easy as it sounds! ;)

The shoulder wipe does look similar when people are posing, but presumably it involves an actual wiping motion. AFAIK it's not a popular meme that a lot of people do when photographed. For whatever reason Obama and Jay-Z decided to personalize the picture with a reference one of his songs.

[enhanced_deficit]

Identifying thought crime isn't as easy as it sounds! ;)

The shoulder wipe does look similar when people are posing, but presumably it involves an actual wiping motion. AFAIK it's not a popular meme that a lot of people do when photographed. For whatever reason Obama and Jay-Z decided to personalize the picture with a reference one of his songs.

All right, good point. But to be devil's lawyer, why should one accept Jay Z's claim about what that represents if "some" can claim that his gesture looks like "reverse Nazi salute"?
Just like the claim of French comic is being rejected by "some" that his gesture is t "anti establishment" and not Nazi symbol.

Guess the difference here may be that Jay Z or his Mrs have not publicly spoken to oppose occupation of Palestinians.

[juvanya]

They are not the only ones though, various other "pro Israel" groups had pressured Dunkin Donuts to pull this ad featuring Rachel Ray because it was "pro terrorism":

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwouFFSnuw9esJxtYZ0SyY2cNYjQeJb IYIqzmMMscfruno07iFlQ (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QfMn2GSammKZ0M&tbnid=x-onXI-hZl8ISM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbehindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com %2F2008_05_01_archive.html&ei=VR_jUpWQMsH8kQeq74DADQ&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNEa1X1j86Ik_AnD9QPqDuu2cE4WfA&ust=1390702619580759)


Dunkin' Donuts Pulls Rachael Ray Ad Over 'Terror' Symbolism (http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/05/29/dunkin-donuts-pulls-rachael-ray-ad-over-terror-symbolism)
www.foxnews.com/.../dunkin-donuts-pulls-rachael...‎
May 29, 2008 - BOSTON – Dunkin' Donuts has pulled an online advertisement featuring Rachael Ray after complaints that a fringed black-and-white scarf that ...
The keffiyeh? Oh for the love of...
Do you know how many die hard neocon Zionists* I know in college who wear keffiyehs? Plenty. Its just in chic now.

*The difference between them and me being that I dont support the whole 69ing going on between the US and Israel, plus theyre all hurdur Iran and pro rebel in Syria, etc etc.

-___-

[JustinTime]

I have no idea what this gesture means, or how serious it is in French culture, so I cant comment. Im like a person who doesn't speak English saying the N word.

I can say this though: The second a society starts using law to ban words, gestures, thoughts, no matter how many people they offend, that society is asking for trouble.

[gwax23]

Obviously it shouldnt be banned but its stupid and has been used increasingly in anti semitic incidents throughout France. The guy who invented is anti semite and a raving socialist. Everyone should be weary of this mob/group think mentality with hand gestures and all the like. Its creepy.

[enhanced_deficit]

Obviously it shouldnt be banned but its stupid and has been used increasingly in anti semitic incidents throughout France. The guy who invented is anti semite and a raving socialist. Everyone should be weary of this mob/group think mentality with hand gestures and all the like. Its creepy.

How can a guy who supports better rights for Palestinian Semites be "anti-semite" ? Can you name a single black politician/activist who has spoken out against occupation/oppression of Palestinians and and has not been called "anti-semite"

Since you seem to know how such labels are apoplied, do you agree with Israeli supporters/zionists who called Obama "anti-semite"?
Not sure what "raving socialist' does here since state of Israel is one of the last standing socialist states in the world (Israel to Offer Free Abortions to Women Aged 20-33 ) (http://www.christianpost.com/news/israel-to-offer-free-abortions-to-women-aged-20-33-messianic-jewish-group-calls-it-sign-that-nation-needs-gospel-112260/).

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Anti+Obama+Posters+Displayed+Jerusalem+vWghLDupEYz l.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QJ2KPuK3ZQ5MGM&tbnid=6uORSMb8fc_BmM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zimbio.com%2Fpictures%2F6-qAifSy_Ph%2FAnti%2BObama%2BPosters%2BDisplayed%2BJ erusalem%2Fp2j-U4EQpCC&ei=6vvjUvO5H5LJkAeVkIAo&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFC0-PAWqf1jUBvKlnuXbbLpoqjWg&ust=1390759157784453)
http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirReaders/english/images/MacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh1.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)


If so, do you find various rediculous arms and legs and neck (and god knows what else) gestures made by Obama to have anti-semitic tones?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnGL9ACcAApAyr.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ngyPya6L1pA/UPU6L4YBV9I/AAAAAAAAGbM/tn6Kq7kPJ7I/s1600/Obama%2BMussolini.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=hQSf3F6R7tmrkM&tbnid=PhNvkQYu0VKH_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Falwaysonwatch3.blogspot.com%2F201 3_01_01_archive.html&ei=xALkUqPBNIu7kQety4HwDQ&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNGKMkRIx4hYVWTNi5_J3SRZH9252Q&ust=1390760979975242)

[gwax23]

How can a guy who supports better rights for Palestinian Semites be "anti-semite" ? Can you name a single black politician/activist who has spoken out against occupation/oppression of Palestinians and and has not been called "anti-semite"

Since you seem to know how such labels are apoplied, do you agree with Israeli supporters/zionists who called Obama "anti-semite"?
Not sure what "raving socialist' does here since state of Israel is one of the last standing socialist states in the world (Israel to Offer Free Abortions to Women Aged 20-33 ) (http://www.christianpost.com/news/israel-to-offer-free-abortions-to-women-aged-20-33-messianic-jewish-group-calls-it-sign-that-nation-needs-gospel-112260/).

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Anti+Obama+Posters+Displayed+Jerusalem+vWghLDupEYz l.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QJ2KPuK3ZQ5MGM&tbnid=6uORSMb8fc_BmM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zimbio.com%2Fpictures%2F6-qAifSy_Ph%2FAnti%2BObama%2BPosters%2BDisplayed%2BJ erusalem%2Fp2j-U4EQpCC&ei=6vvjUvO5H5LJkAeVkIAo&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFC0-PAWqf1jUBvKlnuXbbLpoqjWg&ust=1390759157784453)
http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirReaders/english/images/MacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh1.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)


If so, do you find various rediculous arms and legs and neck (and god knows what else) gestures made by Obama to have anti-semitic tones?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnGL9ACcAApAyr.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ngyPya6L1pA/UPU6L4YBV9I/AAAAAAAAGbM/tn6Kq7kPJ7I/s1600/Obama%2BMussolini.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=hQSf3F6R7tmrkM&tbnid=PhNvkQYu0VKH_M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Falwaysonwatch3.blogspot.com%2F201 3_01_01_archive.html&ei=xALkUqPBNIu7kQety4HwDQ&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNGKMkRIx4hYVWTNi5_J3SRZH9252Q&ust=1390760979975242)

Oh you again. All you do is troll the forums with israel/jewish related topics.

This symbol has been used at Holocaust museums and Auschwitz, M'bala M'bala has expressed holocaust denial views in the past and he supports the National Front, a bunch of Populist nationalistic fascists. He accused Jews of being a sect and a bunch of frauds. He attacked two teenage jews in paris with tear gas in 2006. Hes teamed up with Holocaust deniers producing videos making fun of the holocaust and calling any teaching of it "propaganda." Hes told a prominent French Jewish Journalist to go to the gas chambers. This has nothing to do with Israel or Zionism its pure anti semitism which despite your smart ass-ery is exclusively a term that relates to hatred against Jews. He hasnt even denied that hes an Anti-semite. He said he doesnt currently consider himself an anti-semite but might be open to it in the future...

What difference does it make if hes fucking black? The guy is an anti semitic loon (probably a good thing in your book). 71% of the French population according to recent polls have very negative views of him. I only scratched the surface with my list of his antisemitic actions.

Of course Im sure none of this matters to someone like you. You probably love this guy for his open and blatant anti semitism.

[enhanced_deficit]

Guess my fault in trying to engage you in a logical discussion knowing your tendency to avoid revealing questions and going into emotional outburts.
If after calming down you can answer following Qs, would be nice:


Can you name a single black politician/activist who has spoken out against occupation/oppression of Palestinians and and has not been called "anti-semite"

Since you seem to know how such labels are apoplied, do you agree with Israeli supporters/zionists who called Obama "anti-semite"/"jew hater"?


(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)
(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Anti+Obama+Posters+Displayed+Jerusalem+vWghLDupEYz l.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QJ2KPuK3ZQ5MGM&tbnid=6uORSMb8fc_BmM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zimbio.com%2Fpictures%2F6-qAifSy_Ph%2FAnti%2BObama%2BPosters%2BDisplayed%2BJ erusalem%2Fp2j-U4EQpCC&ei=6vvjUvO5H5LJkAeVkIAo&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFC0-PAWqf1jUBvKlnuXbbLpoqjWg&ust=1390759157784453)

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)

[gwax23]

Guess my fault in trying to engage you in a logical discussion and knowing g your tendency to avoid revealing questions and going into emptional outburts.
If after calming down you can answer following Qs, give it a try:

Can you name a single black politician/activist who has spoken out against occupation/oppression of Palestinians and and has not been called "anti-semite"

Since you seem to know how such labels are apoplied, do you agree with Israeli supporters/zionists who called Obama "anti-semite"?

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Anti+Obama+Posters+Displayed+Jerusalem+vWghLDupEYz l.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=QJ2KPuK3ZQ5MGM&tbnid=6uORSMb8fc_BmM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zimbio.com%2Fpictures%2F6-qAifSy_Ph%2FAnti%2BObama%2BPosters%2BDisplayed%2BJ erusalem%2Fp2j-U4EQpCC&ei=6vvjUvO5H5LJkAeVkIAo&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFC0-PAWqf1jUBvKlnuXbbLpoqjWg&ust=1390759157784453)

(http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=kn6XKG0f7VWEHM&tbnid=zY6fYlABI5ggdM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.israelshamir.net%2FshamirRead ers%2Fenglish%2FMacDonald--Obama-as-Modern-Pharaoh.php&ei=0ATkUr_YE4mkkQe47oGQCg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFjD_q6nw3LZqta305-pyJPgyUaNw&ust=1390761546343683)

Peoples race doesnt matter as much as you want it to matter. I wouldnt call Obama an Anti-semite and Ive heard few call him that. More have called him a Zionist stooge than anything. I cant even name a single prominent Black anti Israel advocate to begin with let alone ones who have been acused of being Anti Semitic. Your two questions are completely irrelevant anyway. We are talking about Dieudonné M'bala M'bala not Obama or any other random "Black" person.

You post a thread about a well known fascist anti semite that you clearly dont know anything about or are trying to ignore his "history." Hes physically attacked people for being Jewish along with slews of other offenses that in no way can be used to say "oh hes just Anti Zionist."

You have never once engaged me in anything resembling a logical discussion. You either ignore my posts in their entirety (as you just did) or simply disappear only to reappear on the forums a few days later to post yet another Israel/Jewish thread. Thats all I see you do.

[compromise]

Obviously it shouldnt be banned but its stupid and has been used increasingly in anti semitic incidents throughout France. The guy who invented is anti semite and a raving socialist. Everyone should be weary of this mob/group think mentality with hand gestures and all the like. Its creepy.

He's not just a socialist. He's a national socialist.

Here's him with his National Front buddies, Mr. Jean Marie Le Pen happens to be the godfather of one of his kids:

http://media.meltybuzz.fr/article-1817095-ajust_930-f1381396036/jean-marie-le-pen-un-soutien-de-dieudonne.jpg

http://www.gala.fr/var/gal/storage/images/media/images/actu/photos_officiel/dieudonne_et_jean-marie_le_pen/653704-1-fre-FR/dieudonne_et_jean-marie_le_pen_reference.jpg

[heavenlyboy34]

Why not? Everything else is.

Including your obviously racist and hateful post there ^^

[enhanced_deficit]

Peoples race doesnt matter as much as you want it to matter. I wouldnt call Obama an Anti-semite and Ive heard few call him that. More have called him a Zionist stooge than anything. I cant even name a single prominent Black anti Israel advocate to begin with let alone ones who have been acused of being Anti Semitic. Your two questions are completely irrelevant anyway. We are talking about Dieudonné M'bala M'bala not Obama or any other random "Black" person.

You post a thread about a well known fascist anti semite that you clearly dont know anything about or are trying to ignore his "history." Hes physically attacked people for being Jewish along with slews of other offenses that in no way can be used to say "oh hes just Anti Zionist."


I may not have been prompt in getting back to debates at times but would not avoid a direct Question, otherwise little point in discussions.
Palestinian occupation is as much an issue of race as it is of religion/cycle of fear/violence etc but we can debate that in FP section. I have already stated that occupation of Palestinians and US funding of it in my view is one of the most key US Forein/Domestic policies issues and directly related to 9/11 , Iraq war, possioble future Iran freedom war, Syria/ Lebanon civil wars and other civil wars violence/bloodbath projects around mideast, Obama election, TSA gropes and ongoing decline of American liberties/Police state rise. If a foreign socialist welfare police state living on US tax payers aid gets vilified in the process, so be it. You can keep getting surprised every time or try to challenge logically views I just stated in any of the FP threads, your choice.

I concede I know very little about this French Comic other than what is reported in OP news but I'm also aware that a lot of times supporters of occupation of Palestinaisn fradualantly throw out "anti-semite" label to try to divert attention away and to discourge anyone from talking about war crimes and oppression taking place in occupied territories for over 4 deacdes .

So you just conceded that Obama was wrongly called "anti semite" ( before he wisened up and stopped talking about Israeli settlements expansion and Palestinain plight} ?

Do you consider Nelson Mandella and ollowing people to be "anti semites" also or not?

http://www.salem-news.com/gphotos/1268710953.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=qwxbNF3pFo66XM&tbnid=ISwoCfvuRW62pM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salem-news.com%2Farticles%2Fmarch152010%2Fantisemitism-jg.php&ei=ORjkUpnFDIeSkQfWxYGACA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNGhX587ZK66W28k6hhRSYufRrmDzQ&ust=1390766489787113)
http://www.worldwidenewscast.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/south-africa-begins-farwell-to-nelson-mandela.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=b3HnJlgHiEVZFM&tbnid=m9Cx1prDHHKttM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldwidenewscast.com%2F2013% 2F12%2Fsouth-africa-begins-farwell-to-nelson-mandela%2F&ei=DSLkUr_eMMjqkAfwqoGQAg&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNFhJoKugzJApTCj5W-YaMWjSdABvw&ust=1390768903643495)




Any Q I can answer for you, don't hesitate to ask.

[gwax23]

I may not have been prompt in getting back to debates at times but would not avoid a direct Question, otherwise little point in discussions.
Palestinian occupation is as much an issue of race as it is of religion/cycle of fear/violence etc but we can debate that in FP section. I have already stated that occupation of Palestinians and US funding of it in my view is one of the most key US Forein/Domestic policies issues and directly related to 9/11 , Iraq war, possioble future Iran freedom war, Syria/ Lebanon civil wars and other civil wars violence/bloodbath projects around mideast, Obama election, TSA gropes and ongoing decline of American liberties/Police state rise. If a foreign socialist welfare police state living on US tax payers aid gets vilified in the process, so be it. You can keep getting surprised every time or try to challenge logically views I just stated in any of the FP threads, your choice.

I concede I know very little about this French Comic other than what is reported in OP news but I'm also aware that a lot of times supporters of occupation of Palestinaisn fradualantly throw out "anti-semite" label to try to divert attention away and to discourge anyone from talking about war crimes and oppression taking place in occupied territories for over 4 deacdes .

So you just conceded that Obama was wrongly called "anti semite" ( before he wisened up and stopped talking about Israeli settlements expansion and Palestinain plight} ?

Do you consider Nelson Mandella and ollowing people to be "anti semites" also or not?

http://www.salem-news.com/gphotos/1268710953.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=qwxbNF3pFo66XM&tbnid=ISwoCfvuRW62pM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.salem-news.com%2Farticles%2Fmarch152010%2Fantisemitism-jg.php&ei=ORjkUpnFDIeSkQfWxYGACA&bvm=bv.59930103,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNGhX587ZK66W28k6hhRSYufRrmDzQ&ust=1390766489787113)


Any Q I can answer for you, don't hesitate to ask.

You keep deflecting to Israel when this has nothing to do with Israel. Somehow to you if a person is Anti Israel that means whatever else they say is Legitimate. Thats simply not true. This guy is more than evident of that. Hes a raving anti semite which you havent conceded yet, this has NOTHING to do with the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict. Just because hes "Pro Palestine" doesnt mean his Anti Semitism is somehow justified or irrelevant.

I have no sympathy for Nelson Mandela. He was a communist who ordered many to be killed and destroyed South Africa. Thats what matters. Not his race or Palestine.

The world doesnt revolve around Palestine.

As to the link between Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism its pretty clear. Nearly all Anti Semites are Anti Zionists, but not all Anti Zionists are Anti Semitic. Rothbard for example was anti Zionist but definitely not Anti Semitic. But people like him tend to be the minority especially nowadays. Many people are openly or secretly Anti Semitic, while simply professing to be Anti Zionist as its more acceptable to hid behind that mantra. Theres no denying this. Even if many are quick to jump to the Anti Semitic card many meanwhile are quick to jump to the "oh its only Anti Zionism" card. This guy clearly being someone who is both Anti Semitic and Anti Zionist.

[compromise]

Enhanced deficit, is Israel the only thing you ever talk about?

[enhanced_deficit]

Compromise, don't be cutting corners.. it is America-Israel unbreakable bond in the post 9/11 world and "no daylight between the two beacons of democratic values (https://www.google.com/#q=no+daylight+us+israel+)" that I find very interesting topic. If still not clear, it is explained in following link (caution graphics):

Gropefest: Palestinians & Americans Coming Closer.. Day By Day (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?435179-Does-majority-of-Americans-support-or-oppose-Freedom-for-Palestinians&p=5336316&viewfull=1#post5336316)

Any other quiestions?

[Anti Federalist]

I have never heard of this before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)

Sooo...it means "stuff it up yer ass, this far".

Meh...ridiculous European kerfluffles are ridiculous.

[juvanya]

You keep deflecting to Israel when this has nothing to do with Israel.


Enhanced deficit, is Israel the only thing you ever talk about?

Because he hates Jews. Antisemites just CAN NOT shut up about Israel and Jews and Zionists. Its all they talk about. Thats how we know Ron Paul ISNT antisemitic. He rarely or never talks about Israel. Yet we have a whole swarm of these nutbags here. If it werent for Israel existing, ED would have to talk about international finance Jews directly.

The sooner the neutrals realize this, the sooner we can shut these mentally ill people up so they stop destroying our movement. Realize the difference between a nutcase Jew hater like ED, and a legitimate critic of Israel (or the US-Israel relationship, he could actually be considered a Zionist imo) like Ron Paul.

[enhanced_deficit]

Looks there could be multiple NBA players photos doing the same jesture besides former Mr. Eva Longoria and SWC has called for an apology.


Updates on Backlash of Tony Parker's Usage of Controversial 'Quenelle' Gesture

By R. Cory Smith (http://bleacherreport.com/users/3058519-r-cory-smith), Senior Analyst

McCarney also suggested that Parker is not the only player to be photographed making the gesture, also naming Parker's teammate Boris Diaw in another tweet

In the Algemeiner's report, the Wiesenthal Center is reportedly requesting an apology from Parker, calling it "disgusting and dangerous." Rabbi Abraham Cooper, Associate Dean of the SWC, called for the apology and told the Algemeiner that he should not associate himself with the gesture:

As a leading sports figure on both sides of the Atlantic, Parker has a special moral obligation to disassociate himself from a gesture that the government of France has identified as anti-Semitic.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1905186-updates-on-backlash-of-tony-parkers-usage-of-controversial-quenelle-gesture





@gwac23, you are right that this is not directly related to Israel and examples of past exaggerated claims of Israeli supportes were only cited to show context why there is so much skepticism whenever such labels are thrown out especially when it related people speaking up for Palestinians.

Found this video with English subtitles where he talks about Palestine and settlers, it is just for context:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypIqpclCXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ypIqpclCXE

[sylcfh]

Sooo....what are Obama, Jay-z and Beyonce' trying to tell the American people?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BcnGL9ACcAApAyr.jpg

(As if we didn't already know what was happening to us.)





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz_-VaTHpc8

[enhanced_deficit]

Does below fall under Freedom of expression? Famous french Comedian arraested after he said "Charlie Coulibaly".
Earlier a star black french soccer player was banned/fined $133,000 for this gesture of toucing is left arm.



http://cdn1.theweek.co.uk/sites/theweek/files/styles/theweek_article_main_image/public/8/77/150114-dieudonne-mbala_0.jpg?itok=PDXK6PO4

Comedian Dieudonne M'Bala M'Bala arrested after seeming to compare himself to Amedy Coulibaly LAST UPDATED AT 11:51 ON Wed 14 Jan 2015



The comedian who has sparked outrage with his trademark "quenelle" salute has been arrested by police for seemingly comparing himself to the terrorist who murdered four people at a kosher supermarket in Paris last week.

On his Facebook page, Dieudonne mocked coverage of the unity marches that were held in Paris over the weekend which featured hundreds of thousands of people holding placards reading "Je Suis Charlie" following an attack on the office of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. "As for me, I feel I am Charlie Coulibaly", Dieudonne wrote in reference to the perpetrator of a near simultaneous attack on a kosher supermarket – Amedy Coulibaly.

Dieudonne's comments generated "a wave of fury on the internet", The Independent reports – "including many angry reactions from his own fans on his Facebook page". The statement was taken down after an hour.





http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/62091/quenelle-comedian-arrested-for-supporting-charlie-hebdo-attack (http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/62091/quenelle-comedian-arrested-for-supporting-charlie-hebdo-attack#ixzz3OoXWdXib)





French soccer star Anelka banned, fined for 'quenelle' salute

Football Association rules the gesture discriminatory; bans Nicolas Anelka from five matches.
By Haaretz (http://www.haaretz.com/misc/writers/haaretz-1.367584) and
Reuters | Feb. 27, 2014 | 7:45 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.565925.1393524380%21/image/2165508071.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/2165508071.jpg West Bromwich Albion's French striker Nicolas Anelka Photo by AFP

French footballer Nicolas Anelka has been banned for five matches and fined £80,000 (just over $133,000) for making the "quenelle" gesture, which is considered to be anti-Semitic.

The English Football association had charged (http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.569720) Anelka, 34, with an aggravated offence after making a gesture that was judged to be "abusive and/or indecent and/or insulting and/or improper." The aggravated breach was that it included "a reference to ethnic origin and/or race and/or religion or belief."

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/...-news/1.576924 (http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.576924)

[enhanced_deficit]

https://m.hrc.onl/images/afam-cover-photo.original.jpg