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KevinF
11-29-2007, 08:57 PM
I am an expert in operations research modeling, so I figure to do my part for RP I am willing to donate my skills to this cause by volunteering to develop a mathematical model to maximize the utilization of the blimp and generate some optimal schedule candidates.

If the organizers can come up with a list of locations and time windows, along with some basic data on travel speed and required stops, I'd be willing to work on a mathematical optimization model. There's a classical problem in my field called the "Traveling Salesman Problem (TSP)" which is very similar to this situation, but in this case we'd have the added complexity of time windows yielding a TSPTW.

Let me know and I'll give you my contact information and we can discuss further how to go about doing this.

Best Regards,

Kevin F.

alexpasch
11-29-2007, 10:55 PM
Just curious...do you use Excel's Solver, some other software (and if so is it third party or proprietary)

I'm assuming the model you're referring to would entail the optimization of a variable given simultaneous equations and subject to certain constraints...

bbachtung
11-29-2007, 10:58 PM
Start by checking out the maximum number of hours per day that the blimp can run.

KevinF
11-29-2007, 11:19 PM
Just curious...do you use Excel's Solver, some other software (and if so is it third party or proprietary)

I'm assuming the model you're referring to would entail the optimization of a variable given simultaneous equations and subject to certain constraints...

You are correct, that it would be the optimization of an objective function subject to a number of constraints. However, Excel Solver is actually a bit too limited to handle combinatorial optimization problems such as a TSP. Excel Solver is really only useful for very small scale problems, primarily of the continuous linear variety.

This kind of model would require a good number of discrete decision variables (binary integer variables) to optimize "yes/no" decisions regarding what location to visit at what time. I would first try modeling the problem in a general purpose mathematical programming language such as AIMMS, AMPL, GAMS, etc. and call a general purpose mixed integer programming (MIP) solver. There are a few really high performance commercial codes (CPLEX, XpressMP) along with several open source alternatives, which while not quite as fast, are fairly reliable performers (CBC, SYMPHONY, GLPK, PICO, etc.).

If general purpose software failed, I'd probably have to resort to customizing some of the special purpose code written specifically for solving TSP problems, or developing some heuristic algorithms to generate likely-optimal solutions quickly.

Combinatorial problems of this kind are notoriously hard to solve to "provable optimality" and can sometimes require hours, if not days, of computational time.

As you can probably tell, I'd be interested in doing this not only to help the Ron Paul campaign, but also as a fun intellectual exercise. Further, I could probably publish the the model and the results in an academic journal or trade magazine, which might be a cool way to further publicize our candidate to the scientific community.

kylejack
11-29-2007, 11:22 PM
Hopefully they'll get the money mess figured out so your skills can be put to use. It is not looking good on that front.

Cardinal Red
11-29-2007, 11:24 PM
So many talented people willing to use their skills to help out the campaign!

BTW Kyle Jack-- What is the story on the Money "not looking good"

madRazor
11-29-2007, 11:26 PM
<MATLAB flashback>
thanks a lot!

KevinF
11-29-2007, 11:45 PM
Start by checking out the maximum number of hours per day that the blimp can run.

I believe that the web page says they'll be getting 100 flying hours per month of rent. (For some reason though I also thought I saw somewhere else that they might have negotiated 160 hours of flight time.) Average flight speed is 30 mph. However I am not sure if it is deflated and transported between locations either on the ground or commercial airlines.

I can actually roughly summarize the kind of data I would need to put together:


List of required locations with time windows to visit
List of optional locations with time windows to visit
Length of time needed to stay for each visit
Travel mode and speed between locations
Distance between locations (can just estimate from maps)
Any required downtime (refueling, maintenance, sleep, rules related to maximum hours per day of flight, etc.)
Time span for which we are renting the blimp


That should cover all the constraints that I can come up with.

Then we'd just need some prioritization or weighting of how important each of the optional locations visits would be.

James R
11-29-2007, 11:50 PM
I am an expert in operations research modeling, so I figure to do my part for RP I am willing to donate my skills to this cause by volunteering to develop a mathematical model to maximize the utilization of the blimp and generate some optimal schedule candidates.

If the organizers can come up with a list of locations and time windows, along with some basic data on travel speed and required stops, I'd be willing to work on a mathematical optimization model. There's a classical problem in my field called the "Traveling Salesman Problem (TSP)" which is very similar to this situation, but in this case we'd have the added complexity of time windows yielding a TSPTW.

Let me know and I'll give you my contact information and we can discuss further how to go about doing this.

Best Regards,

Kevin F.

Don't wait for them to get in contact with you. Collect the data now. Look at major inner-city highway arteries that are positioned next to office towers by collecting the DOT data from each state. Look at the stadium sizes at the different stadiums and what games they have scheduled. Call the FAA and ask them if they can make an exception for the Ron Paul blimp during the superbowl. Its a good bet that the easiest way to collect views is firstly by highway and secondly by sport stadium. You'll also need FAA data to find out how close you can get to the office towers in each city.

Please consider in your calculations that certain states are much more important than others. The early states, especially Iowa, NH, and SC are the most important.

kylejack
11-29-2007, 11:53 PM
BTW Kyle Jack-- What is the story on the Money "not looking good"
No PAC yet, PAC must be used for this project in accordance with election law, organizer claims that his legal counsel says that it must be done WITHOUT a PAC to be legal (highly questionable claim) and that he will send out an e-mail explaining the legal details. That was supposed to happen two nights ago and never did. Not a dime has been collected, nobody wants to be the treasurer for this thing, and the organizer has basically abandoned any explanations about what the heck is going on, and the blimp finishes its contract with the Navy on 11/30.....today.

KevinF
11-29-2007, 11:58 PM
Don't wait for them to get in contact with you. Collect the data now. Look at major inner-city highway arteries that are positioned next to office towers by collecting the DOT data from each state. Look at the stadium sizes at the different stadiums and what games they have scheduled. Call the FAA and ask them if they can make an exception for the Ron Paul blimp during the superbowl. Its a good bet that the easiest way to collect views is firstly by highway and secondly by sport stadium. You'll also need FAA data to find out how close you can get to the office towers in each city.

Please consider in your calculations that certain states are much more important than others. The early states, especially Iowa, NH, and SC are the most important.

Well, I was kind of hoping that other people could help me out in the data collection. It won't be a small effort to do the modeling and solve the problem. I don't know what the best locations would be for maximum exposure. However it would help me greatly if people could just start making a list of locations and time windows, and then maybe as a group we could come out with a way to prioritize their importance. My assumption is that after we generate a list of locations and events, we'd be giving that to the blimp company and they'd need to deal with the FAA and other agencies and organizations to get permission. If we start in early December, and only go for a month, my guess is that the Superbowl is not in our rental period.

Further, I'm not even sure what mode of transportation is used in moving the blimp from location to location? Is it by truck, train, or cargo airline? Some combination of the three?

Man from La Mancha
11-30-2007, 12:02 AM
I don't see how any of this can factor in the randomness of weather and unlike ground based vehicles or IFR aircraft a blimp is really limited.


.

KevinF
11-30-2007, 12:06 AM
No PAC yet, PAC must be used for this project in accordance with election law, organizer claims that his legal counsel says that it must be done WITHOUT a PAC to be legal (highly questionable claim) and that he will send out an e-mail explaining the legal details. That was supposed to happen two nights ago and never did. Not a dime has been collected, nobody wants to be the treasurer for this thing, and the organizer has basically abandoned any explanations about what the heck is going on, and the blimp finishes its contract with the Navy on 11/30.....today.

PAC donations count towards a persons $2300 max if they are devoted to a single candidate. The lawyers are probably going to organize a 529 "soft money" organization. They have no donation limits, however they may only be contributed to by U.S. citizens. There is a really good explanation of this stuff at this web page below.

http://www.ronpaulmax.com/

Paul4Prez
11-30-2007, 12:10 AM
There were some good route suggestions on other threads. Basically, start in North Carolina, head up the Eastern seaboard to Boston and New Hampshire, then cut across the densely populated areas of the Great Lakes (Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee) to Iowa.

Heading South first into South Carolina and Florida might be worthwhile since they are early primary states, but that would put Boston out of reach by 12/16.

KevinF
11-30-2007, 12:16 AM
I don't see how any of this can factor in the randomness of weather and unlike ground based vehicles or IFR aircraft a blimp is really limited.

Well, of course poor weather could prevent the blimp from flying at a particular event. However, that can occur whether or not a schedule is developed using a mathematical model. However, weather probably would not prevent you from getting the blimp to the location. Further, bad weather could cancel the event you're going to anyway.

The point of the model would not be to factor in weather. What I am trying to do is take all the possible events, and lay out a schedule that maximizes the use of the blimp. Of course, this schedule will be based on the assumption that no major delays or cancellations will occur due to weather or other problems. However, we'll run those same risks whether or not a model is used to come up with an event schedule. In fact, by manually generating the schedule, the possibility of a human error even further adds randomness. If some events are deemed as "high risk" with respect to weather or other reasons, we'd simply be able to reduce their priority weighting compared to other events.

Another advantage of a model though is that I can use it to general several possible schedules, and we can leave it to the organizers or blimp crew to evaluate them to determine if they are good.

Nothing would be stopping anyone from doing it by hand either, and they'd need the same data I'd need.

Kalash
11-30-2007, 12:21 AM
Kevin - from what I heard it would fly everywhere - as deflating it then blowing it back up would cost too much (helium isn't free...)


Dunno if that helps or not.


It isn't what you're looking for - but I'm not sure what's going on where...

MilitaryDave
11-30-2007, 12:21 AM
I believe this blimp could make a round trip from SC to NH to MI to IA and back, with possibly a stop in FL before returning to SC if the weather conditions are ideal. This would cover most of the early primary states, plus big cities like DC, Philly, NYC, Boston and Chicago.

Google has the mileage at about 3.5K miles (without the Florida stop). This route may fall into the possible considering the average airspeed of 35 mph for 100 hours.

seapilot
11-30-2007, 12:22 AM
I don't see how any of this can factor in the randomness of weather and unlike ground based vehicles or IFR aircraft a blimp is really limited.


.

This is true. This blimp stays inflated all the time, its up to 160 feet long and travels at 65 mph. I would imagine that weather is a big factor for traveling and weather delays especially with the winter coming you have snow storms, freezing rain and wind.

They have a 20 man ground crew to secure it wherever it lands, I imagine that they travel by car or bus to where ever the blimp decides to land.

KevinF
11-30-2007, 12:22 AM
There were some good route suggestions on other threads. Basically, start in North Carolina, head up the Eastern seaboard to Boston and New Hampshire, then cut across the densely populated areas of the Great Lakes (Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee) to Iowa.

Heading South first into South Carolina and Florida might be worthwhile since they are early primary states, but that would put Boston out of reach by 12/16.

I think the devil is in the details though. What if you go to a state during some week and there's no decent event like a sports game. I'm not saying anyone's suggestion is wrong. I'm just trying to put my skills to use. The model might come up with the same route proposed by someone else.

With 100 flight hours, you could probably have the thing in the air for like 10 to 20 different events and locations. Has anyone really looked at it in that kind of detail?

I think something that may have been overlook from my previous post, is that if I work on this I can probably publish a short article in a magazine or academic journal. More publicity wouldn't hurt.

Man from La Mancha
11-30-2007, 12:26 AM
I think the devil is in the details though. What if you go to a state during some week and there's no decent event like a sports game. I'm not saying anyone's suggestion is wrong. I'm just trying to put my skills to use. The model might come up with the same route proposed by someone else.

With 100 flight hours, you could probably have the thing in the air for like 10 to 20 different events and locations. Has anyone really looked at it in that kind of detail?

I think something that may have been overlook from my previous post, is that if I work on this I can probably publish a short article in a magazine or academic journal. More publicity wouldn't hurt.
They have offered up to 160 hours per month as a bonus.


.

kylejack
11-30-2007, 12:27 AM
PAC donations count towards a persons $2300 max if they are devoted to a single candidate. The lawyers are probably going to organize a 529 "soft money" organization. They have no donation limits, however they may only be contributed to by U.S. citizens. There is a really good explanation of this stuff at this web page below.

http://www.ronpaulmax.com/

I'm pretty sure you mean 527s. 527s cannot expressly advocate for a candidate.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=527_committee

Flying a blimp with Ron Paul's name on it would be a pretty clear violation. Regardless, an explanation was promised two nights ago and is still not forthcoming.

KevinF
11-30-2007, 12:32 AM
Maximum speed is 65 mph (with a tail wind). Average speed is 30 mph.

Does anyone know anything about blimps?

For my job, I route cargo vessels using mathematical models. When you hire a ship, they only travel at their standard cruising speed, which is usually slower than their maximum speed.

Would the blimp essentially be traveling at 30 mph all the time, or does it go faster when in between locations and slower when cruising over events to meet the average speed?

RickNHouston
11-30-2007, 12:33 AM
I believe that the web page says they'll be getting 100 flying hours per month of rent. (For some reason though I also thought I saw somewhere else that they might have negotiated 160 hours of flight time.) Average flight speed is 30 mph. However I am not sure if it is deflated and transported between locations either on the ground or commercial airlines.

I can actually roughly summarize the kind of data I would need to put together:


List of required locations with time windows to visit
List of optional locations with time windows to visit
Length of time needed to stay for each visit
Travel mode and speed between locations
Distance between locations (can just estimate from maps)
Any required downtime (refueling, maintenance, sleep, rules related to maximum hours per day of flight, etc.)
Time span for which we are renting the blimp


That should cover all the constraints that I can come up with.

Then we'd just need some prioritization or weighting of how important each of the optional locations visits would be.



..... and it's gonna be winter time too, don't forget. That part of the country at that time of the year has to be taken into serious consideration...

KevinF
11-30-2007, 12:36 AM
I'm pretty sure you mean 527s. 527s cannot expressly advocate for a candidate.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=527_committee

Flying a blimp with Ron Paul's name on it would be a pretty clear violation. Regardless, an explanation was promised two nights ago and is still not forthcoming.

Yes, you're right. I guess maybe we could have a problem getting this project off the ground then.

However, there may be a technicality. If a blimp just has the phrase "Who is Ron Paul?" or "Google Ron Paul", it isn't really advocating a candidate, is it?

beobeli
11-30-2007, 12:39 AM
I love it. Just show me a campaign out there that is thinking like this.... We are unbeatable...

RickNHouston
11-30-2007, 12:41 AM
Kevin - from what I heard it would fly everywhere - as deflating it then blowing it back up would cost too much (helium isn't free...)


Dunno if that helps or not.


It isn't what you're looking for - but I'm not sure what's going on where...

I saw somebody that this particular blimp is hot air filled and not hellium... cud be wrong!

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 12:47 AM
Hi,

I'm one of the people working on route planning. A little number crunching to pass through cities most efficiently would be most welcome!

Priority 1 - Pre-Super Tuesday states: LA, IA, NH, MI, SC, FL, ME
Priority 2 - Super Tuesday states: in the eastern half of the USA: AL, AR, CT, DE, GA, IL, MA, MO, NJ, NY, OK, TN
Priority within states - the largest cities, and highways for stops and routes.

We are not putting together one route, we are putting together many. The route is entirely weather dependent. That means IA, MI NH, ME, etc. could be problems.

Our meteorologist is recommending westward travel in southern states and eastern travel in northern states to minimize headwind and maximize tail wind.


I'm including one possible route that is a dash to Boston, doing the NE, and coming back south then west then north. Weather may prevent going to Iowa. Where it ends, one of two things could happen. Either be at the 1/3 Iowa primaries and dash east for the 1/8 NH primaries, or head back down south and then cover missed Super-Tuesday cities going east.

Other variation exist.

the blimp travels 200-300mph, max speed is 70mph w/ a tail wind, cruise speed is 30-50mph. It is grounded in heavy snow, wind over 30mph, and other adverse conditions - lightning, fog, etc. The ground crew also can't deal well with more than 2' of snow on the ground.

anyway, one partial route - and ignore the stop in Canada - it's not letting me erase it.

-n

http://www.localsearchmaps.com/routeplanner/?perm=1&zoom=13&start=-82.0458984375,41.64007838467894&p=-77.607421875,36.10237644873644&p=-76.2451171875,36.31512514748051&p=-75.5859375,38.36750215395045&p=-74.5257568359375,39.38950933076637&p=-73.9874267578125,40.75974059207392&p=-71.0595703125,42.35854391749705&p=-70.7904052734375,43.05684777584547&p=-71.4605712890625,42.99661231842139&p=-72.2900390625,43.695679697898825&p=-71.6748046875,43.74728909225908&p=-72.0208740234375,44.422011314236634&p=-72.5811767578125,44.24913396886894&p=-72.3284912109375,43.65197548731187&p=-72.2845458984375,43.691707903073805&p=-72.2955322265625,43.70759350405294&p=-72.333984375,43.64005063334696&p=-72.57568359375,42.85180609584703&p=-72.6800537109375,41.77131167976406&p=-72.6800537109375,41.75492216766298&p=-73.7677001953125,42.65012181368022&p=-72.586669921875,42.09007006868398&p=-72.6690673828125,41.759019938155404&p=-74.0753173828125,40.79301881008675&p=-75.1739501953125,39.93501296038254&p=-76.629638671875,39.2832938689385&p=-77.0361328125,38.886757140695906&p=-77.4371337890625,37.52279705525959&p=-78.90380859375,35.97800618085566&p=-78.6676025390625,35.782170703266075&p=-78.651123046875,35.77771427205079&p=-78.9093017578125,35.96911507577482&p=-79.78271484375,36.05798104702501&p=-80.848388671875,35.21869749632885&p=-80.244140625,36.071302299422406&p=-80.8428955078125,35.20523334751453&p=-81.03515625,33.970697997361626&p=-80.0244140625,32.88881315761995&p=-79.925537109375,32.759562025650126&p=-81.10107421875,32.0639555946604&p=-81.650390625,30.334953881988564&p=-81.068115234375,29.200123477644983&p=-81.38671875,28.555576049185973&p=-80.15625,26.106120832355515&p=-80.22216796875,25.79989118208833&p=-82.6611328125,27.741884632507087&p=-82.452392578125,27.994401411046145&p=-84.26513671875,30.439202087235607&p=-84.19921875,31.55981453201843&p=-84.44091796875,33.77914733128647&p=-84.4189453125,33.73347670599252&p=-84.166259765625,31.5691754490709&p=-87.220458984375,30.486550842588482&p=-90.076904296875,29.945415337104453&p=-91.1865234375,30.439202087235607&p=-93.2080078125,30.20211367909724&p=-95.394287109375,29.012944302424863&p=-95.38055419921875,29.757224408272663&p=-96.8170166015625,32.79651010951669&p=-97.4652099609375,35.50092819950358&p=-95.9765625,36.12012758978146&p=-94.5867919921875,39.08743603215884&p=-93.614501953125,41.590796851056005&p=-92.318115234375,42.49640294093705&p=-91.680908203125,41.951319946796964&p=-91.527099609375,41.64007838467894&p=-90.538330078125,41.50857729743935&p=-93.62686157226562,42.01359090088998&p=-93.636474609375,42.04113400940809&p=-92.3455810546875,42.47614857025451&p=-91.658935546875,41.95949009892464&p=-91.593017578125,41.68522004222073&p=-90.582275390625,41.51269075845857&p=-78.662109375,45.27488643704891&p=-90.615234375,41.705728515237524

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 12:52 AM
oh - it's helium filled.

12/16 is a must for Boston.
1/3 and 1/8 would be nice for IA and NH
it would be nice to be in NYC for new years, but I don't see any route that will do that without sacrificing massive amounts of coverage to other states.

-n

torchbearer
11-30-2007, 12:53 AM
How far can you travel in 160 hours?

schmeisser
11-30-2007, 12:59 AM
Yes, you're right. I guess maybe we could have a problem getting this project off the ground then.

However, there may be a technicality. If a blimp just has the phrase "Who is Ron Paul?" or "Google Ron Paul", it isn't really advocating a candidate, is it?

Let's just call it "transportation for voter registration efforts". I don't care if the blimp owner wants a Ron Paul logo on the outside. :D

KevinF
11-30-2007, 01:00 AM
The blimp travels 200-300mph, max speed is 70mph w/ a tail wind, cruise speed is 30-50mph. It is grounded in heavy snow, wind over 30mph, and other adverse conditions - lightning, fog, etc. The ground crew also can't deal well with more than 2' of snow on the ground.

I assume 200-300mph is a typo. I assume you meant miles per day? That would put you at traveling in a ballpark of 8 hours per day at cruising speeds (4-10 hour range).

wisconsinite
11-30-2007, 01:02 AM
Texas doesn't vote until March. Louisiana also doesn't vote until after Super Tuesday. So I don't think those should be a priority. Much better if it could go to either Michigan or Florida. Also, if it somehow gets to Iowa before Jan. 3, I don't see the need to rush it all the way back to NH if NH has already been visited by the blimp. It might be better to cover Michigan more thoroughly since it has more delegates and Ron Paul is already doing pretty good in NH.

KevinF
11-30-2007, 01:04 AM
Let's just call it "transportation for voter registration efforts". I don't care if the blimp owner wants a Ron Paul logo on the outside. :D

That's not a bad idea! We could ask the official campaign to pay some nominal fee to the blimp owner for the advertising, and we can hire the blimp as transportation for any reason we want to give.

Man from La Mancha
11-30-2007, 01:12 AM
That's not a bad idea! We could ask the official campaign to pay some nominal fee to the blimp owner for the advertising, and we can hire the blimp as transportation for any reason we want to give.I don't see any cargo more valuable then paid donors or PR needed people such as reporters, politicians, winner of big PR contest such as writing contests. Or camera equipment to show sports events or a 24 hr webcam.


.

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 01:16 AM
Yes - typo, it's 200-300 miles a DAY!

lets have one other firm, must do date/stop: Dec 24/25 Elizabeth City, NC

on LA, I used the greenpapers and it said the caucus was the month of January.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/events.phtml?s=c

hmm... ok, my bad. district caucus is Jan, Primary is 2/9 for LA

TX is on the route, because Clute TX is pretty close to LA and we could hit 2 major TX cities on the way to OK.

Nothing is written in stone - there are many routes and the weather has the final word on where we go.

-n

KevinF
11-30-2007, 01:17 AM
Priority 1 - Pre-Super Tuesday states: LA, IA, NH, MI, SC, FL, ME
Priority 2 - Super Tuesday states: in the eastern half of the USA: AL, AR, CT, DE, GA, IL, MA, MO, NJ, NY, OK, TN
Priority within states - the largest cities, and highways for stops and routes.


Okay. I think I have a way to figure out how to prioritize. Where can I find a list of states long with their primary dates and its number of delegates?

How long do we expect to have the blimp in operation?

Further, has someone confirmed that Ron Paul will appear on the ballot in all states? If he is not making a ballot, that state is a low priority, as it would be very difficult to win a primary as a write-in vote.

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 01:24 AM
try the greenpapers

I'm using an almanac for city populations.

blimp will fly for a month, hopefully longer - but we are planning for a month now.
-n

kylejack
11-30-2007, 01:28 AM
In a sense, the population density thing is kind of secondary. As I see it, the beauty of the blimp is going to be all the local and national media collectively running stories that say: "Uh. Wow. Just wow. He's got a fracking BLIMP now. (brains explode)"

KevinF
11-30-2007, 01:33 AM
I'll see what I can come up with. I'm not sure how much time I'll have to devote to this. It appears that I will need to do a lot more data collection than I anticipated. I'll probably get going on Sunday to play around with the idea.

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 01:34 AM
well, population density works both ways. ME, for example is the 40th most populated state - ie: fewest ppl. That makes something like a blimp huge news!

but it really does make more sense to visit the 2-6 largest cities in a state if we want the most impact, rather than small towns.

-n

KevinF
11-30-2007, 02:08 AM
tangent,

When you calculated your tentative routes, did you take into account the maximum of 160 hours?

At a maximum of 200-300 miles per day, and cruising speed of 30-50 miles per hour ,I would estimate that your flying for about 6 hours per day. Under those conditions, you would not be flying for an entire month. You'd only get in the neighborhood of 22 days total usage of the blimp. That would put you at a total of about 5500 miles traveled.

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 02:19 AM
I'm looking at that at the end. The first route I did was ideal, and didn't consider weather. It also contained about 50% too many hrs. I'm kind of ball parking the routes and looking for places to streamline the route.

The southern states are the best weather, but also the most travel time between stops with basically nothing but fields underneath... well, fields and major highways. But yes, I'm thinking about that too. Tee eastern and southern coast has the best payoff as to regular, populated cities.

-n

jabbott0
11-30-2007, 02:44 PM
Here is a 1990 population density map that may help with planning:
http://www.cast.uark.edu/local/catalog/national/images/maps/Population.dir/USpop1990.gif

...and a night-time 2000 population density map:
http://www.census.gov/geo/www/mapGallery/images/2k_night.jpg

...and a list of states sorted by population density:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

HOLLYWOOD
11-30-2007, 03:20 PM
The highest yield wqould be the Washington DC to BOSTON corridor.

MAX points

Outdoor NFL FOOTBALL EVENTS: Washington, PHILLY, GIANTS-JETS (NY/NJ/NYC), NEW ENGLAND

Outdoor COLLEGE FOOTBALL EVENTS: regular season and bowl games time/place

NASCAR is over so that's missed for 2007, but when the season starts up... where else can you catch 100-200 thousand people in one shot? DAYTONA 500!!! 250,000+

IRL/open wheel races (when they start back up)

ALL Major METRO AREAs... with synchronized support groups and media.

REDUCE COSTS.... AT sporting events, sell camera time from the blimp.

Create a video journal/documentary/movie from every event/flight/locale and the involved ideas set in motion... can be CD/DVD distributed for donations to the cause.


This could be a very EFFECT MEDIUM... has any candidate done this before?

Just throwing some Marketing ideas out there... I'm pretty good at Marketing (my expertise)

PEACE, Wood

tangent4ronpaul
11-30-2007, 06:33 PM
re: football and NASCAR, etc. - one phrase: TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction).

new route to stimulate thought:

Here's a route that just goes to the most populated cities, and misses some places we need. It's a bit over budget for air hours, but would expose 105 Million people to the message (i/3 of the US population), assuming 100% spread of the message in the cities and surrounding areas visited.

Keep in mind that more stops to slightly smaller, closer together cities could get larger numbers of people exposed than just going by largest cities. This route also does not visit some pre Super Tuesday and Super Tuesday sites.

Data from:
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/most_pop_cities_usa.htm

Urban agglomeration has been defined as comprising the city or town proper and also the suburban fringe or thickly settled territory lying outside of, but adjacent to, the city boundaries.
Dec 202 Data
----------------------------------------
New York (NY) 21,199,865
Chicago (IL) 9,157,540
Washington (DC) 7,608,070
Philadelphia (PA) 6,188,463
Boston (MA) 5,819,100
Detroit (MI) 5,456,428
Dallas (TX) 5,221,801
Houston (TX) 4,669,571
Atlanta (GA) 4,112,198
Miami (FL) 3,876,380
Minneapolis (MN) 2,968,806
Cleveland (OH) 2,945,831
St Louis (MO) 2,603,607
Tampa (FL) 2,395,997
Pittsburgh (PA) 2,358,695
Portland (OR) 2,265,223
Sacramento (CA) 1,796,857
Kansas City (MO) 1,776,062
Milwaukee (WI) 1,689,572
Orlando (FL) 1,644,561
Indianapolis (IN) 1,607,486
San Antonio (TX) 1,592,383
Norfolk (VA) 1,569,541
Columbus (OH) 1,540,157
Charlotte (NC) 1,499,293
New Orleans (LA) 1,337,726

not included:
----------------
Los Angeles (CA) 16,373,645
San Francisco (CA) 7,039,362
Seattle (WA) 3,554,760
Phoenix (AZ) 3,251,876
San Diego (CA) 2,813,833
Denver (CO) 2,581,506
Las Vegas (NV) 1,563,282

http://www.localsearchmaps.com/routeplanner/?perm=1&zoom=12&start=-86.429443359375,31.728167146023935&ordered=0&p=-74.014892578125,40.76390128094589&p=-87.64892578125,41.902277040963696&p=-77.0361328125,38.87392853923629&p=-75.16845703125,39.9434364619742&p=-71.0595703125,42.35854391749705&p=-83.056640625,42.33418438593939&p=-96.8115234375,32.76880048488168&p=-95.394287109375,29.79298413547051&p=-84.385986328125,33.742612777346885&p=-80.189208984375,25.78999956287362&p=-93.284912109375,44.972570682240644&p=-81.705322265625,41.492120839687786&p=-90.208740234375,38.642617906345265&p=-80.013427734375,40.43022363450859&p=-82.46337890625,27.994401411046145&p=-94.603271484375,39.08743603215884&p=-87.945556640625,43.076913126087106&p=-86.143798828125,39.749433691782464&p=-81.375732421875,28.545925723233477&p=-98.50341796875,29.43002940457176&p=-76.278076171875,36.84446074079564&p=-83.023681640625,39.985538414809746&p=-80.870361328125,35.23664622093195&p=-90.076904296875,29.935895213372444

-n

juddpuds
11-30-2007, 10:15 PM
When you guys are doing your calculations about all the places the blimp can hit, are you taking into account the fact that it may be best for the blimp to linger for a day or two or three in a given city, especially if there is a major event? Also, it seems to me that going to Iowa will inevitably lead to a lot of flying over fields. It makes the most sense to me to focus on states like NH, ME, and SC where we are likely to do well. Ron Paul getting 10 or 12% in both Iowa and NH, wouldn't be nearly as effective as 5% in Iowa and 25% in NH. We should focus on where we can win.

tangent4ronpaul
12-01-2007, 12:12 AM
I know the routes need to be cut down a bit - just looking at what is possible.

as to lingering, I was thinking 2 days in pre-super-Tuesday states and a day or less in super Tuesday states.

-n

Indy Vidual
12-01-2007, 02:14 AM
In a sense, the population density thing is kind of secondary. As I see it, the beauty of the blimp is going to be all the local and national media collectively running stories that say: "Uh. Wow. Just wow. He's got a fracking BLIMP now. (brains explode)"
LOL
:D


Many people are finally ready for real change.

http://www.1life1time.com/images/rp.jpg

Congressman Ron Paul: Archives (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html) (Dr. Ron Paul in his own words and brilliant writings)

happyphilter
12-01-2007, 02:35 AM
IRL/open wheel races (when they start back up)


REDUCE COSTS.... AT sporting events, sell camera time from the blimp.

LOVE that idea. I dont know what it takes to set up a camera on a blimp, but it would be a great way of reducing cost and getting the exposer at the games

Rhys
12-01-2007, 04:04 AM
What happens to the blimp at night?

wisconsinite
12-01-2007, 04:58 AM
Also we want to give people in the media short rides, so you'll have to make a bunch of take offs and landings with 1/2 hour or 1 hour rides around some cities.

Ilhaguru
12-02-2007, 05:11 PM
Don't forget to look up when it's best to be in the NE and the South in regards to weather. Should we start in the South vs. the NE and all that stuff.

Also, if you guys want to look at population density, IMO one of the best ways is to use that NASA picture of the world at night:

North America:
http://www.darkskysociety.org/images/gallery/usatnight.jpg

TCrage
12-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Don't forget to look up when it's best to be in the NE and the South in regards to weather. Should we start in the South vs. the NE and all that stuff.

Also, if you guys want to look at population density, IMO one of the best ways is to use that NASA picture of the world at night:

North America:
http://www.darkskysociety.org/images/gallery/usatnight.jpg

I would like to invite you to a thread where I have done some of that:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=45419

KevinF
12-03-2007, 12:11 AM
I'm not sure if I'm going to have the time to develop a nice model. I'll see what I can do in my free time this week. Given the time and distance restrictions, the logistics may not allow for too many stops.