Property Taxes, and what to do about them

[dinosaur]

Would it be possible to attack the problem, on a local level, through a ballot initiative? My idea is to put forward a proposal to divorce property taxes from property so that an economic crisis wouldn't result in a large scale government land grab. What if, as a first step, "property" taxes were still calculated according to the value of the property you own; but that property could no longer be seized by the government for non-payment?

I'm not sure what alternate punishment could be offered to the liberals worried about tax revenue. Is it possible, though, to alter the penalty for non-payment at a local level, and restructure the property tax so that it does not give property ownership to the government?

[oyarde]

Sounds reasonable to me .

[specsaregood]

I'm not sure what alternate punishment could be offered to the liberals worried about tax revenue. Is it possible, though, to alter the penalty for non-payment at a local level, and restructure the property tax so that it does not give property ownership to the government?

In most areas, unrelated private entities can buy delinquent property taxes.

[dinosaur]

In most areas, unrelated private entities can buy delinquent property taxes.

Buy delinquent from the local or state government, right? Or did I misunderstand your meaning? What if we could change the laws that forfeited property for non-payment of tax? At this point I'm guessing that those laws exist at the state level, even if property is forfeited to local governments. But if they are not state laws, they should be fairly easy to change.

[ClydeCoulter]

I'll talk to someone I know that buys delinquent tax liens how it all works. But, my understanding is that some times these are properties that are no longer worth the delinquent taxes to the owner, or else they pay them off to the buyer (usually what happens,around here). The guy that I know, buys them and then if they don't repay him then the property becomes his and he then fixes or rebuilds and then sells the property.

But, yes, it should be looked at for changes, especially in high property tax areas where the property tax is as high as a small house payment. Another case for limited government.

[dinosaur]

I'll talk to someone I know that buys delinquent tax liens how it all works. But, my understanding is that some times these are properties that are no longer worth the delinquent taxes to the owner, or else they pay them off to the buyer (usually what happens,around here). The guy that I know, buys them and then if they don't repay him then the property becomes his and he then fixes or rebuilds and then sells the property.

But, yes, it should be looked at for changes, especially in high property tax areas where the property tax is as high as a small house payment. Another case for limited government.

Thank you Clyde. The way I see it, land gives people the opportunity for self sufficiency. Even those who don't own it, can help work someone's land. But in an economic crisis, the means to be self sufficient could be the first thing we lose.

[ClydeCoulter]

Thank you Clyde. The way I see it, land gives people the opportunity for self sufficiency. Even those who don't own it, can help work someone's land. But in an economic crisis, the means to be self sufficient could be the first thing we lose.

Yes, and this is my plan for when things get really bad. I want to be able to help others take care of themselves. I can see letting people help grow vegies on my property and get some of it in return. I have been saving seeds like crazy, my wife hates it. I'm not an expert at it, so I just dry them on paper plates all over the kitchen during harvest time :)

[jllundqu]

Oh how I dream of a land where I didn't have to pay property taxes...

If I am forced to pay taxes on the land that I OWN (er rent from government) then I don't own squat and I'm not really free.

I am seriously considering pulling a Mick Dodge and taking off into the freaking woods....

[jllundqu]

Oh how I dream of a land where I didn't have to pay property taxes...

If I am forced to pay taxes on the land that I OWN (er rent from government) then I don't own squat and I'm not really free.

I am seriously considering pulling a Mick Dodge and taking off into the freaking woods....

until I am arrested for 'killing the king's deer' and hanged..... lol

[dinosaur]

until I am arrested for 'killing the king's deer' and hanged..... lol

Perfect image; it is a much different country from the one our forefather's homesteaded a few generations ago. They escaped countries where peasants were kept in their place by limiting their access to land. In England, venison was a rich man's food. Here, the poor can hunt. I fear what happens when government, banksters, or corporate thieves swoop in claim all the land that is foreclosed on for pennies on the dollar. Our property tax system assumes a certain type of economy which might not always be around.

I figure that it would be easy to take a Sunday drive in a rural area and get signatures for such a proposal. I'm just waiting for someone with a better knowledge of the law to chime in and tell me why this wouldn't be possible.

[dinosaur]

Yes, and this is my plan for when things get really bad. I want to be able to help others take care of themselves. I can see letting people help grow vegies on my property and get some of it in return. I have been saving seeds like crazy, my wife hates it. I'm not an expert at it, so I just dry them on paper plates all over the kitchen during harvest time :)

If the economy completely collapsed, we could probably adapt pretty quickly into a barter economy (and live quite well); if we can keep our land.

[Schifference]

Abolish Property Taxes. Initiate a Resident Tax with no one exempt. Everyone that lives in the city pays the same Resident tax.

[cbc58]

Doubt you would get anywhere trying to abolish real estate property taxes. Look up "current use" tax deductions that give large land owners tax breaks. System is rigged to protect people with large tracts of land. Nice thought though.

[Schifference]

If every voter had to pay to reside in a city eyes would open and spending might be more likely to be scrutinized.

[Tod]

If the economy collapsed quickly enough, there would be so many people in the same boat that the system would almost certainly be overwhelmed.

[dinosaur]

If the economy collapsed quickly enough, there would be so many people in the same boat that the system would almost certainly be overwhelmed.

That is what worries me. Something tells me they won't be too busy to do tax foreclosures.


If every voter had to pay to reside in a city eyes would open and spending might be more likely to be scrutinized.

I agree, but am looking for a pragmatic way of disconnecting property taxes from property ownership.


Doubt you would get anywhere trying to abolish real estate property taxes. Look up "current use" tax deductions that give large land owners tax breaks. System is rigged to protect people with large tracts of land. Nice thought though.

Thank you. Maybe I can try to get some metadata and look to see the percentages of people who would be for and against before trying this.

[Zippyjuan]

I agree, but am looking for a pragmatic way of disconnecting property taxes from property ownership.


Then it wouldn't really be a property tax but some other form of taxation.

[dinosaur]

Then it wouldn't really be a property tax but some other form of taxation.

That is sort of the point.

[enoch150]

Something tells me they won't be too busy to do tax foreclosures.

47% of property owners in Detroit didn't pay their property tax for 2011. They did, in fact, overwhelm the system and tens of thousands of properties which were supposed to have been seized were not. And a year later Detroit filed for bankruptcy.:D

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210375

[enoch150]

An alternative that might be acceptable to liberals:

Abolish property seizure for failure to pay property tax and replace it with attached wages/unemployment/SS.

Out of a job and not collecting a government check? No penalty until you go back to work. That way people don't lose their homes because they lost their jobs. Not to the government, anyway. The banks might still take it.

[dinosaur]

47% of property owners in Detroit didn't pay their property tax for 2011. They did, in fact, overwhelm the system and tens of thousands of properties which were supposed to have been seized were not. And a year later Detroit filed for bankruptcy.:D

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210375

Actually it was a game for speculators. They purposely didn't pay property taxes, and then scooped up the properties again at the next auction. It was cheaper than paying the taxes. This went on for years and years. Someone was getting a kickback, I assume.

[dinosaur]

An alternative that might be acceptable to liberals:

Abolish property seizure for failure to pay property tax and replace it with attached wages/unemployment/SS.

Out of a job and not collecting a government check? No penalty until you go back to work. That way people don't lose their homes because they lost their jobs. Not to the government, anyway. The banks might still take it.


Yes! that is sort of what I was thinking.

[pcosmar]

Abolish Property Taxes. Initiate a Resident Tax with no one exempt. Everyone that lives in the city pays the same Resident tax.

Abolish Tax,, and remove the very concept of tax from human memory.

Any government "needs" should be 100% voluntary. (Tip Jar) As well as any public works, (Parks, roads, etc.)

[Schifference]

Abolish Tax,, and remove the very concept of tax from human memory.

Any government "needs" should be 100% voluntary. (Tip Jar) As well as any public works, (Parks, roads, etc.)
They won't abolish the tax and the only way this government will collect any tax is through theaftax. A viable option would be to tax every citizen for existing and residing in an area. Today the welfare recipient knows not tax in the paying sense yet they know of earned income credits where they get back more than paid. If an individual had to pay a residence tax and another one for each of his/her dependents maybe that would open some eyes. Once you start taking money from the poor the poor get noisy. Have you ever noticed in lets say a work environment the less educated and people with the least amount of common sense talk the loudest? Most people today do not understand that they pay income tax based on yearly wages. How many times have you heard someone say, "I'm not working any overtime it all goes to taxes." Landlords have few rights. The lowlife tenant can not pay the rent and place demands on the landlord. It matters not if you have an agreed upon signed contract for an apartment, States have their own laws governing rentals. When the tenant is not paying rent the landlord must still pay property taxes. Let all people pay to reside in the area not just the landowner.