The Verdict: Murder as an Official Entitlement

[Feeding the Abscess]

http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-verdict-murder-as-official.html

Grigg nails it. Yet again.


Reeves was arrested and – like Manuel Ramos – faces a charge of second-degree murder. There is no measurable moral difference between the lethal actions of those individuals. However, for those who adhere to the cult of the State, Reeves committed a grave sacrilege by carrying out the familiar liturgy of lethal aggression without being clad in the vestments of the government’s punitive priesthood.

[FrankRep]

Will Grigg missed the part of the story where Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence.


Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, right Mr. Grigg?

[Spikender]

Will Grigg missed the part of the story where Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence.


Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, right Mr. Grigg?

So...

That gives the cops leeway to gang up on him and pummel him to death while he begs for mercy?

I mean, the cops have a history of violence as well. I don't think I need to illustrate that simple truth for you.

[FrankRep]

So...

That gives the cops leeway to gang up on him and pummel him to death while he begs for mercy?

I mean, the cops have a history of violence as well. I don't think I need to illustrate that simple truth for you.

Nice Collectivist statement. "Cops have a history of violence."

Not the cops I know.

My brother-in-law is a cop and a Ron Paul supporter.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Will Grigg missed the part of the story where Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence.


Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, right Mr. Grigg?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IntxCA3sA

[Christian Liberty]

Nice Collectivist statement. "Cops have a history of violence."

Not the cops I know.

My brother-in-law is a cop and a Ron Paul supporter.

You know, I've argued partially from emotion against the "ALL cops are bad" thing, if only because I know one cop who I know well enough to know he wouldn't deliberately violate someone else's rights. And I believe there are at least a small percentage of cops who are like him. However, the bottom line is that your statement is false. A cop's entire job is violence. Sometimes, like when arresting an actual aggressor, his violence is justified. Usually it isn't. Sometimes, such as in this Kelly Thomas case, its so obvious every decent person knows its wrong when its presented to them. In other cases, like a drug raid, "the law" has destroyed the typical person's moral resolve... to the point where even an anarchist like myself is making a distinction between that type of violence and the more overt types of violence (maybe I'm wrong, hence the wording of my comment.) But to say the cops you know DON'T engage in violence, really? That's absurd.

And someone having a history of violence does NOT give you a right to just murder them. Then again, I don't view Ted Cruz supporters as part of the "liberty movement" in any way, shape, or form, so I'll just throw you in the woods along with all the other moderate shills.

[Spikender]

Nice Collectivist statement. "Cops have a history of violence."

Not the cops I know.

My brother-in-law is a cop and a Ron Paul supporter.

Thanks for going for that part of my reply instead of the part that actually matters. You know, the part about Kelly Thomas being beaten and pummeled to death.

And yes, I know a cop as well. She's a nice individual.

And the only cop worth my time I've ever met. Now, respond to the part of my statement that matters instead of ignoring it like I know you want to.

[Christian Liberty]

So...

That gives the cops leeway to gang up on him and pummel him to death while he begs for mercy?

I mean, the cops have a history of violence as well. I don't think I need to illustrate that simple truth for you.

I try not to make generalizations about cops (If you'll recall our conversation, the one cop I know does NOT brag about what he does on the job or even talk about it much, he'd much rather talk about his faith in Christ) but "cops engage in violence as a career" is an accurate generalization. If you limit it to "illegal violence" it becomes a subset, but violence? I mean... no duh. That people on this forum are really questioning that is making my eyes roll.

[Spikender]

I try not to make generalizations about cops (If you'll recall our conversation, the one cop I know does NOT brag about what he does on the job or even talk about it much, he'd much rather talk about his faith in Christ) but "cops engage in violence as a career" is an accurate generalization. If you limit it to "illegal violence" it becomes a subset, but violence? I mean... no duh. That people on this forum are really questioning that is making my eyes roll.

Look, people on here love to play semantics. Just because I didn't put "most" in front of my statement means nothing to me. They play these games to avoid addressing the meat of a statement they don't agree with.

And yes, I recall our conversation, and as I said then, it's the profession that allows this and attracts violent people to it.

Perhaps from now on I need to tighten the way I type on here to avoid people picking apart little parts of my posts and ignoring the stuff that matters.

[Christian Liberty]

Look, people on here love to play semantics. Just because I didn't put "most" in front of my statement means nothing to me. They play these games to avoid addressing the meat of a statement they don't agree with.

I wasn't criticizing you for that, BTW. I was actually agreeing with you. "Cops have a history of violence" is a 100% accurate translation. There is no such thing as a cop that doesn't engage in violence.

There might, might, be such a thing as a cop who doesn't engage in any unjustified violence (The likelihood of this are probably higher taken from the constitutional POV than the ancap POV that I take.) There are definitely plenty of cops that don't engage in any "illegal" violence. There are probably cops who use as little violence as they can get away with. And then there are cops who are sociopaths. I don't know what percentage is in each camp, I wouldn't be surprised if the relatively "good" ones were a minority. But I do believe they're out there.

But "violence"? Every single cop without exception does that, I mean, how that isn't blatantly obvious I don't know. Unless you DON'T consider arrests or pulling people over by force to be "violence."


And yes, I recall our conversation, and as I said then, it's the profession that allows this and attracts violent people to it.


I agree.



Perhaps from now on I need to tighten the way I type on here to avoid people picking apart little parts of my posts and ignoring the stuff that matters.

Frank is a Cruz-shill. I'd ignore him. If you start confusing legitimate liberty supporters then maybe change it, but don't do it for him.

[Spikender]

I wasn't criticizing you for that, BTW. I was actually agreeing with you. "Cops have a history of violence" is a 100% accurate translation. There is no such thing as a cop that doesn't engage in violence.

There might, might, be such a thing as a cop who doesn't engage in any unjustified violence (The likelihood of this are probably higher taken from the constitutional POV than the ancap POV that I take.) There are definitely plenty of cops that don't engage in any "illegal" violence. There are probably cops who use as little violence as they can get away with. And then there are cops who are sociopaths. I don't know what percentage is in each camp, I wouldn't be surprised if the relatively "good" ones were a minority. But I do believe they're out there.

But "violence"? Every single cop without exception does that, I mean, how that isn't blatantly obvious I don't know. Unless you DON'T consider arrests or pulling people over by force to be "violence."

Frank is a Cruz-shill. I'd ignore him. If you start confusing legitimate liberty supporters then maybe change it, but don't do it for him.

True, true. Perhaps what I should say is that there are many in the law enforcement division that are guilty of crimes against humanity that deserve to be punished for what they've done to the people using the power that they wield.

And thanks for the heads up on Frank. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Keep in mind that I haven't been on here in a while, so some of my knowledge about the members on here has slipped away.

[FrankRep]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IntxCA3sA

The police officer was being nice to Kelly Thomas and talking to him in a friendly manner. The cop was trying to get information because someone was breaking into cars.

What does Kelly Thomas do? Pretend he couldn't speak English while ... speaking English.

Kelly Thomas doesn't even know his own name...


Kelly Thomas is asking for trouble. I'm only 15 stupid minutes into this video.

[FrankRep]

Frank is a Cruz-shill.

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.

Get it right.

[FrankRep]

True, true. Perhaps what I should say is that there are many in the law enforcement division that are guilty of crimes against humanity that deserve to be punished for what they've done to the people using the power that they wield.

And thanks for the heads up on Frank. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Keep in mind that I haven't been on here in a while, so some of my knowledge about the members on here has slipped away.

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.

[Christian Liberty]

True, true. Perhaps what I should say is that there are many in the law enforcement division that are guilty of crimes against humanity that deserve to be punished for what they've done to the people using the power that they wield.

And thanks for the heads up on Frank. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Keep in mind that I haven't been on here in a while, so some of my knowledge about the members on here has slipped away.

I guess I'll have to watch the video... I honestly don't even bother generally, I don't have the time and I know the government is always lying. If at least half the people on here are saying the government is wrong, its a slam dunk, and its like everyone but Frank right now so I suspect he's just shilling. He's probably bought and paid for, along with a few others here.

As for your rep comment, I try to think everything through logically and take every view to its logical conclusion before adopting it. That kind of cold, hard logic is sometimes unpopular here, and EXTREMELY unpopular IRL, but I try really hard.

[Christian Liberty]

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.

I still go back and forth on Rand Paul, but I'm leaning against supporting him ATM. I might change my mind. Speaking of which, I'm curious if Rand Paul agrees with you on this or if he'll address it. Then again, he wants to prosecute Snowden so I won't hold my breath.

[Spikender]

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.

That's not good either.

When Rand Paul makes a mistake, I criticize him. I hope you do too.

And thanks for that negative rep. I deserved that for mistaking what sort of shill you are.

Though shills of all stripes are terrible people.

And thanks once again for addressing the part of my post that mattered. Just like all shills, you are an expert when it comes to dodging questions or challenges that you can't come up with a good answer to.

[Spikender]

I guess I'll have to watch the video... I honestly don't even bother generally, I don't have the time and I know the government is always lying. If at least half the people on here are saying the government is wrong, its a slam dunk, and its like everyone but Frank right now so I suspect he's just shilling. He's probably bought and paid for, along with a few others here.

As for your rep comment, I try to think everything through logically and take every view to its logical conclusion before adopting it. That kind of cold, hard logic is sometimes unpopular here, and EXTREMELY unpopular IRL, but I try really hard.

I've already watched it.

Was disgusted.

Made me shake my head at Frank's comments since I saw what those officers did to that man.

I've noticed that the way you post is severely criticized on here. I try to be fair myself. When someone steps out of line, I disagree with them, even if I like them. Same in real life.

Doesn't make you a lot of friends, that's for certain.

[Christian Liberty]

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.

You're also an idiot for nitpicking that point because you couldn't refute my greater point, that the career of police is built on violence.

Defend it if you must, I'll be the first to say I do NOT believe violence is always wrong (Only aggressive violence) but "violence" is still a word with a clear meaning and it clearly applies to the everyday job of cops.

That's not good either.

When Rand Paul makes a mistake, I criticize him. I hope you do too.

I do. Some people here don't. Frank does not.


And thanks for that negative rep. I deserved that for mistaking what sort of shill you are.

Though shills of all stripes are terrible people.

And thanks once again for addressing the part of my post that mattered. Just like all shills, you are an expert when it comes to dodging questions or challenges that you can't come up with a good answer to.

Is there any such thing as a RON Paul shill? Admittedly, I know sometimes people will say "Ron Paul never said that" to a more extreme minarchist/anarchist statement on occasion, but those people rarely agree with everything Ron says anyway. I think a Ron Paul shill would be rare, if any exist at all, because Ron Paul encouraged free-thinking to such a great extent.

[Christian Liberty]

I've already watched it.

Was disgusted.

Made me shake my head at Frank's comments since I saw what those officers did to that man.

I've noticed that the way you post is severely criticized on here. I try to be fair myself. When someone steps out of line, I disagree with them, even if I like them. Same in real life.

Doesn't make you a lot of friends, that's for certain.

I love getting disagreed with, legitimately. The last thing I want is for everyone to agree with what I say no matter what, or pretend to in order to stay on my "good side." I need to be challenged and it makes me a better person. I'd just like the challengers to be intelligent. Usually they are on here, with the exception of the paid shills. In real life, they rarely are.

[FrankRep]

That's not good either.

When Rand Paul makes a mistake, I criticize him. I hope you do too.

And thanks for that negative rep. I deserved that for mistaking what sort of shill you are.

Though shills of all stripes are terrible people.

And thanks once again for addressing the part of my post that mattered. Just like all shills, you are an expert when it comes to dodging questions or challenges that you can't come up with a good answer to.

You didn't ask me any questions, you just started to attack me.

[FrankRep]

I've already watched it.

Was disgusted.

Made me shake my head at Frank's comments since I saw what those officers did to that man.

I've noticed that the way you post is severely criticized on here. I try to be fair myself. When someone steps out of line, I disagree with them, even if I like them. Same in real life.

Doesn't make you a lot of friends, that's for certain.

I'm 15 mins into the video and the police are being very nice to the guy.

[Spikender]

Is there any such thing as a RON Paul shill? Admittedly, I know sometimes people will say "Ron Paul never said that" to a more extreme minarchist/anarchist statement on occasion, but those people rarely agree with everything Ron says anyway. I think a Ron Paul shill would be rare, if any exist at all, because Ron Paul encouraged free-thinking to such a great extent.

I'm not sure. I've never had a huge issue with Ron Paul to be honest. I think that's why I'm so hard on other politicians, because Ron Paul set such a high, golden standard that I hold other politicians to.

The only thing I've ever really disagreed with Ron on are some of his endorsements. But we'll see if that changes.

[Christian Liberty]

@Spikender- Are Frank's comments about the 1st 15 minutes true in ANY sense, or is he blatantly lying? I'll watch it later to confirm, but since you've already seen it, is there ANY plausible way you could come away with the conclusion he comes along with?

[FrankRep]

@Spikender- Are Frank's comments about the 1st 15 minutes true in ANY sense, or is he blatantly lying? I'll watch it later to confirm, but since you've already seen it, is there ANY plausible way you could come away with the conclusion he comes along with?

Here's the proof. Watch the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IntxCA3sA

[Christian Liberty]

I'm not sure. I've never had a huge issue with Ron Paul to be honest. I think that's why I'm so hard on other politicians, because Ron Paul set such a high, golden standard that I hold other politicians to.

The only thing I've ever really disagreed with Ron on are some of his endorsements. But we'll see if that changes.

I don't have any issues with Ron, although I sometimes disagree with him. My biggest disagreement was something he came around on, the 2001 AUMF, but I also disagree with some of his endorsements, and some other minor things. Ron Paul also hasn't come out and said that government is evil as such yet... I'm a total ancap.

All that said, all of the above probably composes about 5% of issues, if even that much.

[Spikender]

You didn't ask me any questions, you just started to attack me.

No I did not. My first post there was no attack. I simply pointed out that the cops mercilessly beat the man in response to your history of violence statement, and then you used that "cops have a history of violence" part of my post to deflect and avoid that part of my post and then accuse me of making a collectivist statement.

You threw the first punch. And I notice that you keep saying how fifteen minutes in and the police are nice. I'll note that that's right before the cop threatens Kelly with physical violence. Apparently you stopped the video right before the part where the cops dish out some good ole fashioned street justice to an uppity punk.

[FrankRep]

No I did not. My first post there was no attack. I simply pointed out that the cops mercilessly beat the man in response to your history of violence statement, and then you used that "cops have a history of violence" part of my post to deflect and avoid that part of my post and then accuse me of making a collectivist statement.

You threw the first punch. And I notice that you keep saying how fifteen minutes in and the police are nice. I'll note that that's right before the cop threatens Kelly with physical violence. Apparently you stopped the video right before the part where the cops dish out some good ole fashioned street justice to an uppity punk.

I will continue the video, but Kelly Thomas is being a complete idiot right now. The cops are trying to be nice with him.

[Spikender]

Here's the proof. Watch the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IntxCA3sA

First fifteen minutes is most inaudible chatter between Ramos and Kelly, with a few choice parts here and there. Kelly refuses to answer some of the cop's questions for the most part. Ramos orders Kelly to sit down and put his hands on his knees, which Thomas says he has trouble doing as Ramos slaps on some rubber gloves. Suddenly, Ramos threatens Kelly with physical violence. All goes downhill from there.

Guess Ramos just couldn't wait anymore.

"See my fists?"

"Yeah, what about them?"

"They're getting ready to fuck you up."

That sounds more like a fed-up gangster than a cop.

But then again, I repeat myself.

[Spikender]

I will continue the video, but Kelly Thomas is being a complete idiot right now. The cops are trying to be nice with him.

Notice that Ramos slaps Kelly at the 15:40 mark, the first sign of physical violence. After that...

And I notice you're just fine watching the parts of the video where he isn't getting his ass kicked. Please wait to comment until after you've watched the whole thing.

[FrankRep]

First fifteen minutes is most inaudible chatter between Ramos and Kelly, with a few choice parts here and there. Kelly refuses to answer some of the cop's questions for the most part. Ramos orders Kelly to sit down and put his hands on his knees, which Thomas says he has trouble doing as Ramos slaps on some rubber gloves. Suddenly, Ramos threatens Kelly with physical violence. All goes downhill from there.

Guess Ramos just couldn't wait anymore.

"See my fists?"

"Yeah, what about them?"

"They're getting ready to fuck you up."

That sounds more like a fed-up gangster than a cop.

But then again, I repeat myself.

That is after the 15 mins.

[Spikender]

That is after the 15 mins.

Yes.

Yes it is.

I never criticized the cops about the first fifteen minutes. There wasn't a real issue there.

It's what happens after the fifteen minutes that matters.

The fact that you said you were fifteen minutes in and everything was fine was telling, since that is the exact time stamp that everything changes from just fine to police beating Kelly's ass.

What happens after that mark nullifies any "niceness" the cops had afterwards. Just because someone is being uncooperative doesn't mean you can commit murder on them, let alone a senseless beating.

[FrankRep]

Notice that Ramos slaps Kelly at the 15:40 mark, the first sign of physical violence. After that...

And I notice you're just fine watching the parts of the video where he isn't getting his ass kicked. Please wait to comment until after you've watched the whole thing.

The video is 30 mins long, give me some time.

Kelly Thomas continues to act like an idiot.


Kelly Thomas doesn't know his name, claims to not know English while speaking English, now doesn't know how to get on his knees or on to the ground.


Holy Shit people, The cops were wrong.

Kelly Thomas is still an idiot.

[FrankRep]

Yes.

Yes it is.

I never criticized the cops about the first fifteen minutes. There wasn't a real issue there.

It's what happens after the fifteen minutes that matters.

The fact that you said you were fifteen minutes in and everything was fine was telling, since that is the exact time stamp that everything changes from just fine to police beating Kelly's ass.

What happens after that mark nullifies any "niceness" the cops had afterwards. Just because someone is being uncooperative doesn't mean you can commit murder on them, let alone a senseless beating.

The cops would have left the guy alone if he would have just said his name. Kelly Thomas.

Problem over.

No, Kelly Thomas didn't want to do that. He'd rather provoke the officers.

[Spikender]

The cops would have left the guy alone if he would have just said his name. Kelly Thomas.

Problem over.

No, Kelly Thomas didn't want to do that. He'd rather provoke the officers.

Okay, so being difficult to a police officer warrants being beaten to death?

Second, the police officer slapped him right in the face, initiating the violence. Also, Kelly was beginning to cooperate, but was confused by the officer's instructions to spread his legs and put his hands on his knees.

Remember, this all ends with him on the ground, screaming for his father, as he's beaten to death.

[FrankRep]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

[FrankRep]

Okay, so being difficult to a police officer warrants being beaten to death?

Second, the police officer slapped him right in the face, initiating the violence. Also, Kelly was beginning to cooperate, but was confused by the officer's instructions to spread his legs and put his hands on his knees.

Remember, this all ends with him on the ground, screaming for his father, as he's beaten to death.

Despite what Kelly Thomas was saying, Kelly Thomas was fighting the cops.

[osan]

Will Grigg missed the part of the story where Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence.


Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story, right Mr. Grigg?

WTF? Really Frank? The cops beat him to death. That takes time and deliberation and demonstrates control over the victim, which perforce demonstrates the victim posed no threat sufficient to justify killing him, further demonstrating that said killing was in fact murder.

I'm getting a bit old, but 43 years of martial arts training has taught me several things. Age notwithstanding, I do believe I am still able to subdue your average male attacker by locking him up solidly such that his choices become clear: chill out or receive lifetime crippling injury at my hands. The truth is, he doesn't really have even that much choice.

So why, then, are cops so ready to shoot? Lack of training? What in hell do all those taxes to toward then, pray tell?

Defend the tyrant's lapdogs if you will, but I don't buy it. If a skinny little shit like me can have you crying for your mammy without breaking a sweat, what can't those bulky, tough talking men with guns do it? Nothing in the police state smells right. Not a single thing.

[FrankRep]

Was Kelly Thomas on PCP or something? The guy is out of his mind.


Edit:

He's still fighting the cops!

See kids, don't do drugs.

[Spikender]

Was Kelly Thomas on PCP or something? The guy is out of his mind.

Frank, you're starting to just not make any sense.

He's being beaten and tasered, and the cops, like always, yell stop resisting.

The man is in pain. Absolute pain. He has a history of mental illness.

The cops do not stop beating on him. The keep beating and tasing, beating and tasing.

Look at the photos of Kelly Thomas after the beating, they're everywhere.

Tell me, when do you stop?

Did Kelly Thomas deserve to die for this?

Answer me that.

Did he deserve to die?

[FrankRep]

Frank, you're starting to just not make any sense.

He's being beaten and tasered, and the cops, like always, yell stop resisting.

The man is in pain. Absolute pain. He has a history of mental illness.

The cops do not stop beating on him. The keep beating and tasing, beating and tasing.

Look at the photos of Kelly Thomas after the beating, they're everywhere.

Tell me, when do you stop?

Did Kelly Thomas deserve to die for this?

Answer me that.

Did he deserve to die?


The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.

[Mani]

The cops would have left the guy alone if he would have just said his name. Kelly Thomas.

Problem over.

No, Kelly Thomas didn't want to do that. He'd rather provoke the officers.

Let's not forget that he's mentally ill. You keep referring him as an idiot, that still doesn't give officers a right to murder him because he can't hold a simple conversation.


Even an idiot who can't hold a simple conversation or refuses to comply with orders, doesn't deserve to be pummeled to death.


While the guy was being uncooperative or just mentally ill, he was not threatening in ANY manner whatsoever, and even told officers it was OK to search his backpack.

He was NEVER a threat and even did sit down.

He was confused about hand placement and how to sit and the cop lost patience, threatened violence. The OFFICER initiated violence.

I would hardly call this a fight. The officer initiated violence, Kelly instinctively slapped the hand away and instinctively got up to run away from the violence. Then he was tackled and pummeled to death.

[FrankRep]

Let's not forget that he's mentally ill.

Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence. He was acting like he was on PCP too.

[Spikender]

The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.

Wow.

Just wow.

Frank, you wouldn't happen to have been one of the people sitting on that jury, would you?

But I jest, of course. At least I get to see what a person goes through to rationalize this sort of thing in their mind.

A man was beaten to death. His life was taken because he was uncooperative with police officers. His life.

And it wasn't a fast process either. He begged for mercy, he begged for his father, God, anyone to save him as he as beaten and tased to death.

And the police are not guilty, as you so succinctly put it.

Well, you've watched the video, you've made up your mind, and I doubt you'll change it.

Thanks for providing another example of a person who will rationalize away police violence. As if I didn't already have enough of those in my life.

I guess not bowing down and kissing the ass of a police officer at every command that he gives you is warrant enough in your book for a beat down and summary execution. Kelly did was uncooperative.

That was it. He did not initiate violence, he did not say he wanted to murder the officers, he barely even threatened them with anything.

And now he's dead.

Oh well. My thoughts on this case are simple when it comes to the officers and the jury who let them go free:

Fuck em.

[Spikender]

Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence. He was acting like he was on PCP too.

And once again, why does that mean he should be murdered? You said this before, and it still doesn't really contribute to your argument that the officers are not guilty.

[Mani]

Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence. He was acting like he was on PCP too.



They did the report, no drugs or alcohol were in his system.


Based on the video evidence do you feel Kelly THomas was a threat to the officers and needed to be killed?

[WM_in_MO]

The police officer was being nice to Kelly Thomas and talking to him in a friendly manner. The cop was trying to get information because someone was breaking into cars.

What does Kelly Thomas do? Pretend he couldn't speak English while ... speaking English.

Kelly Thomas doesn't even know his own name...


Kelly Thomas is asking for trouble. I'm only 15 stupid minutes into this video.

Because not answering questions means you are a criminal.

These cops didn't care who it was, someone was coming with them. Pig bastards.

Maybe frank needs to meet officer friendly on a dark night before he sees the light.

[tod evans]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

Good God Frank!

What's wrong with you?

Just in case you missed the memo "fighting the cops", especially the out of line cops, is the right thing to do.

I had no earthly idea that the bootlicker gene was so prevalent in you...:mad:

There is NEVER any reason for government employees to do that to a citizen in the name of public good, NEVER!

[Origanalist]

The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.

A tragedy is when a tree falls on you, or your front tire blows out and you run head on into a semi truck. A tragedy is when cancer takes a loved one. Government agents beating you to death is not a tragedy.

Words have meaning. So does this murder, now they are free to kill anyone and people like you will call it a tragedy and say they are innocent.

[PaulConventionWV]

True, true. Perhaps what I should say is that there are many in the law enforcement division that are guilty of crimes against humanity that deserve to be punished for what they've done to the people using the power that they wield.

And thanks for the heads up on Frank. I'll keep that in mind in the future. Keep in mind that I haven't been on here in a while, so some of my knowledge about the members on here has slipped away.

I can attest to the fact that Frank is a shill in every manner of the word.

Short of directing the following comment at him, I will instead refer to a phrase that was popular on these forums in 2008 in reference to Frank Lutz, a real media commentator shill who had these rigged "focus groups": Fuck you, Frank!

There, I said it. It wasn't all that satisfying, but I believe FrankRep here needs to know that he is an estranged member of these boards and his views are, for the most part, shunned.

[PaulConventionWV]

The police officer was being nice to Kelly Thomas and talking to him in a friendly manner. The cop was trying to get information because someone was breaking into cars.

What does Kelly Thomas do? Pretend he couldn't speak English while ... speaking English.

Kelly Thomas doesn't even know his own name...


Kelly Thomas is asking for trouble. I'm only 15 stupid minutes into this video.

Right, he was speaking to him in a friendly manner... if by friendly you mean, "You see these fists? They're about to fuck you up." Oh, and guess what happened. He died.

We all know Kelly Thomas was mentally disturbed. The fact that he has some sort of mental illness doesn't give anyone a license to beat, maim, or kill for non-compliance. If you believe Kelly Thomas was the one asking for trouble, then you obviously have some sort of ingrained cop-worship complex because nothing could be further from the truth. It was the exact opposite, in fact.

[FrankRep]

Good God Frank!

What's wrong with you?

Just in case you missed the memo "fighting the cops", especially the out of line cops, is the right thing to do.

I had no earthly idea that the bootlicker gene was so prevalent in you...:mad:

There is NEVER any reason for government employees to do that to a citizen in the name of public good, NEVER!

If Kelly Thomas would have cooperated with the police, even just a little, all this would have been avoided.

The jury found the police officers innocent as well.

Even if I felt I was unfairly targeted by the police, I would still cooperate and if they violated my rights, I could hit them with a lawsuit later. Resisting and fighting the police never ends well.

[tod evans]

If Kelly Thomas would have cooperated with the police, even just a little, all this would have been avoided.

The jury found the police officers innocent as well.

Even if I felt I was unfairly targeted by the police, I would still cooperate and if they violated my rights, I could hit them with a lawsuit later. Resisting and fighting the police never ends well.

Yup these "lawsuits" turn out well don't they..:rolleyes:

"Police officers" shows respect..........These pieces of shit do not deserve respect.

If you choose to cooperate with any LEO that's entirely up to you, they are my enemy!

They have declared war on the citizenry of which I am one.

This court decision makes it very clear to everyone that there is nothing to lose by responding to any LEO encounter with deadly force.

[GunnyFreedom]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

Seriously? Seriously? Oh for heaven's sake. I guess all I can say is just 'psychopaths are gonna psycho.' This lunacy has finally prompted me to do something I swore in my 6+ years here I would never do...

[PaulConventionWV]

Here's the proof. Watch the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6IntxCA3sA

Incidentally, the 15 minute mark you mentioned is right where Ramos' niceties turn to aggression and he starts cursing at him. The guy is obviously mentally ill, but that doesn't matter, apparently. He had a little trouble following orders and immediately the guy goes into the whole "See my fists?" routine after which the situation is escalated. If you can't see that that was all Ramos' doing, then I don't know what to say to you. It should be obvious that everything after the 15 minute was aggression on the part of Ramos. Having trouble understanding orders doesn't warrant that kind of behavior, and especially not to the point where someone gets killed.

But I guess you think all the screaming in pain and pleading for his life was just a front for the evil that lurked within as he planned his violent comeback.

[FrankRep]

Seriously? Seriously? Oh for heaven's sake. I guess all I can say is just 'psychopaths are gonna psycho.' This lunacy has finally prompted me to do something I swore in my 6+ years here I would never do...

I took an unpopular position so go ahead and attack me if you want.

[HOLLYWOOD]

The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.wow... considering the cops incited and escalated the situation, then brutally murdered a peaceful human being... this is one of the most fucked-up statements I have ever read on this forum. The incremental authoritarian state has been accelerated, while the clowns in government chip away person/property rights.

It's not me, so the state can justify what they want... wait until you're effected, you'll change your tone & tune.

[GunnyFreedom]

I took an unpopular position so go ahead and attack me if you want.

You took a psychopathic position, and deserve to be called on it.

[FrankRep]

wow... considering the cops incited and escalated the situation, then brutally murdered a peaceful human being... this is one of the most fucked-up statements I have ever read on this forum. The incremental authoritarian state has been accelerated, while the clowns in government chip away person/property rights.

It's not me, so the state can justify what they want... wait until you're effected, you'll change your tone & tune.

I would still cooperate with the police even if I felt my rights were being violated. I could file a complaint and lawsuit after the fact.

[FrankRep]

You took a psychopathic position, and deserve to be called on it.

The jury also found the police officers not guilty. So all the jurors are now psychopaths?

[GunnyFreedom]

The jury also found the police officers not guilty. So all the jurors are now psychopaths?

The jurors were either psychopaths themselves, victims of stockholm syndrome, subjects of hyper-statist propaganda, or woefully misled. Your statement that Thomas "did this to himself" is pure psychopathy.

[moostraks]

Kelly Thomas had schizophrenia and a history of violence. He was acting like he was on PCP too.


If Kelly Thomas would have cooperated with the police, even just a little, all this would have been avoided.

The jury found the police officers innocent as well.

Even if I felt I was unfairly targeted by the police, I would still cooperate and if they violated my rights, I could hit them with a lawsuit later. Resisting and fighting the police never ends well.


I took an unpopular position so go ahead and attack me if you want.


Schizophrenia is a chronic, severe, and disabling brain disorder that has affected people throughout history..

Thought disorders are unusual or dysfunctional ways of thinking. One form of thought disorder is called "disorganized thinking." This is when a person has trouble organizing his or her thoughts or connecting them logically. They may talk in a garbled way that is hard to understand. Another form is called "thought blocking." This is when a person stops speaking abruptly in the middle of a thought. When asked why he or she stopped talking, the person may say that it felt as if the thought had been taken out of his or her head. Finally, a person with a thought disorder might make up meaningless words, or "neologisms."...


Negative symptoms

Negative symptoms are associated with disruptions to normal emotions and behaviors. These symptoms are harder to recognize as part of the disorder and can be mistaken for depression or other conditions. These symptoms include the following:

"Flat affect" (a person's face does not move or he or she talks in a dull or monotonous voice)
Lack of pleasure in everyday life
Lack of ability to begin and sustain planned activities
Speaking little, even when forced to interact.
People with negative symptoms need help with everyday tasks. They often neglect basic personal hygiene. This may make them seem lazy or unwilling to help themselves, but the problems are symptoms caused by the schizophrenia.

Cognitive symptoms

Cognitive symptoms are subtle. Like negative symptoms, cognitive symptoms may be difficult to recognize as part of the disorder. Often, they are detected only when other tests are performed. Cognitive symptoms include the following:

Poor "executive functioning" (the ability to understand information and use it to make decisions)
Trouble focusing or paying attention
Problems with "working memory" (the ability to use information immediately after learning it).
Cognitive symptoms often make it hard to lead a normal life and earn a living. They can cause great emotional distress.http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml?utm_source=publish2&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=www.kpbs.org

You need to educate yourself on schizophrenia. Your position isn't just unpopular, it is ignorant. To acknowledge he is schizophrenic and then say he is an idiot and brought this upon himself is unconscionable. You are a living example of the levels to which people will go to excuse the behavior of the state.

[moostraks]

The jurors were either psychopaths themselves, victims of stockholm syndrome, subjects of hyper-statist propaganda, or woefully misled. Your statement that Thomas "did this to himself" is pure psychopathy.

You have to wonder if they brought a psychiatrist in to explain about schizophrenia.(I didn't follow the trial so if anyone knows please correct me) It appears that ignorance of the disease gives cover to those who wish to excuse police brutality. Anyone who works for the police should have training with this. Regardless it is no reason to condone the violence. I have not looked into it but saw there was some argument regarding conflict of interest with the prosecution. If that is evident it would not be unreasonable to also believe in jury tampering, as reasons for why the verdict is what it is.

[BSWPaulsen]

FrankRep and these cops... Birds of a feather. Statist bootlickers are a nasty lot. Those pigs should be swinging from the rafters, because their little costumes do not excuse their wrongdoings. This man, for all his faults, wouldn't have died without state thugs rearing their ugly heads where they did not belong. It is as simple as that. May they and all who support them find their lives full of misery and misfortune.

[FrankRep]

FrankRep and these cops... Birds of a feather. Statist bootlickers are a nasty lot. Those pigs should be swinging from the rafters, because their little costumes do not excuse their wrongdoings. This man, for all his faults, wouldn't have died without state thugs rearing their ugly heads where they did not belong. It is as simple as that. May they and all who support them find their lives full of misery and misfortune.

I just realize the statism exists and fighting the cops will lead to negative consequences. That doesn't make me a statist.

[phill4paul]

Cops and schizophrenics. They "don't have time for this.' FFS. They should have just shot him and skipped the torture.

[GunnyFreedom]

I just realize the statism exists and fighting the cops will lead to negative consequences. That doesn't make me a statist.

Maybe maybe not, but your position that Kelly Thomas 'did this to himself' is disgusting, and it reveals a sociopathic mindset utterly devoid of empathy.

[phill4paul]

Maybe maybe not, but your position that Kelly Thomas 'did this to himself' is disgusting, and it reveals a sociopathic mindset utterly devoid of empathy.

Mentally ill people do it to themselves all the time. It's like they're crazy or something.

[FrankRep]

Maybe maybe not, but your position that Kelly Thomas 'did this to himself' is disgusting, and it reveals a sociopathic mindset utterly devoid of empathy.

If cops are holding me down to the ground, I would stop resisting. If I continued to resist, the cops will use stronger force and the consequences are on me. Just stop resisting and hit the cops with a lawsuit later.

[GunnyFreedom]

If cops are holding me down to the ground, I would stop resisting. If I continued to resist, the cops will use stronger force and the consequences are on me. Just stop resisting and hit the cops with a lawsuit later.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[moostraks]

If cops are holding me down to the ground, I would stop resisting. If I continued to resist, the cops will use stronger force and the consequences are on me. Just stop resisting and hit the cops with a lawsuit later.

Empathy. You are thinking what YOU would do. Good for you. Now try to think like someone with scrambled eggs for brains. They can't process information correctly.

[kcchiefs6465]

The police officer was being nice to Kelly Thomas and talking to him in a friendly manner. The cop was trying to get information because someone was breaking into cars.

What does Kelly Thomas do? Pretend he couldn't speak English while ... speaking English.

Kelly Thomas doesn't even know his own name...


Kelly Thomas is asking for trouble. I'm only 15 stupid minutes into this video.
It was the police who was harassing Thomas about "What language do you speak" because he did not reply yes or no to the question of if he was breaking into cars. Which, by the way, as is the case when they insist Thomas sit on a particular curb and extend his feet to their liking, is nothing more than punk, bully, bitches on a power trip. The way he puts his gloves on, they knew what they were going to do. He even offers some sick sense of an attempt at justification by saying, you know, "Don't make me do this" or "I don't want to do this." Right. Then don't. It's like the husband that smacks his wife for a burnt dinner. She shouldn't have made him do it.

As to whether Kelly Thomas knew his name or not, it is possible he did not. I've known schizophrenics and homeless people who after years of seclusion and living in the woods, they do not know their name and they do not go by their name.

And finally, may the person driving by who felt so inclined to call the police burn in hell. You, and the police as well, have no evidence that Kelly Thomas was the one attempting to open car doors or even if there was someone attempting to open car doors. Otto Zehm was beat to death because of a similar errant 9-1-1 call. Even if he was attempting to open car doors, the police are not the judge and jury. They certainly shouldn't be the executioner. It's amazing how the Sargent notes that his officer is covered in blood. One of the accomplices hurriedly says he'll get him some alcohol wipes. This of course as Kelly Thomas was choking on his own blood.

You are a sign of what is wrong with country. Of what hopefully will change with the coming of seasons. Too many Andy Griffith fairy tales floating around your head. Not that I don't expect such sentiments from you. (and a few others)

[kcchiefs6465]

If cops are holding me down to the ground, I would stop resisting. If I continued to resist, the cops will use stronger force and the consequences are on me. Just stop resisting and hit the cops with a lawsuit later.
Are you dim?

[kcchiefs6465]

Empathy. You are thinking what YOU would do. Good for you. Now try to think like someone with scrambled eggs for brains. They can't process information correctly.
Now try thinking what you would do as officers sit on your legs and hold down your arms. Try to think what you'd do when an officer is yelling, "stop resisting" simply for camera sake and as the legal excuse to beat you until they're tired. Try to think about rolling over with shattered tibias. Am I seriously spelling this out? "Stop resisting" is the snare all excuse beat someone. This is not new. They've been doing it for years. "Scrambled brains"? The fuck?

"Stop resisting" as they shatter your legs and Frank is telling us how cooperative he'd be.

[FrankRep]

Are you dim?

Name calling will not alter my opinion.

[moostraks]

Now try thinking what you would do as officers sit on your legs and hold down your arms. Try to think what you'd do when an officer is yelling, "stop resisting" simply for camera sake and as the legal excuse to beat you until they're tired. Try to think about rolling over with shattered tibias. Am I seriously spelling this out? "Stop resisting" is the snare all excuse beat someone. This is not new. They've been doing it for years. "Scrambled brains"? The fuck?

"Stop resisting" as they shatter your legs and Frank is telling us how cooperative he'd be.

That's the truth. I think it would be horrifying enough with my grasp of what is real and rational. Add into the fact that one has a true mental illness that severely hampers their ability to process and decipher what would stop these animals from attacking (if anything). I have not been able to stomach the whole video but should for the sake of seeing the whole naked process in its full glory. To think one can make an unemotional decision is ludicrous. Of course Frank thinks that the whole thing is Kelly's fault for being unwilling to answer questions properly because he is "an idiot" and looking for trouble. Until Frank can grasp what it means to be schizophrenic there is no discussion that can get through his willful ignorance. :(

[kcchiefs6465]

Name calling will not alter my opinion.
It will not alter the brightness of your lantern, either.

So why do it then, perhaps you wonder? It is because some of your comments are so damned ludicrous I do not know where to begin.

[moostraks]

Name calling will not alter my opinion.

You need a soul shattering experience it seems. Bare minimum you need to be exposed to true schizophrenics before you call them idiots looking for a problem.

[phill4paul]

It will not alter the brightness of your lantern, either.

So why do it then, perhaps you wonder? It is because some of your comments are so damned ludicrous I do not know where to begin.

If a cop puts you in the back of the car and tells you to suck his dick Franks advise would be to just go ahead and do it and let the courts handle the matter.

[JK/SEA]

I'm 15 mins into the video and the police are being very nice to the guy.

what was the cause of death again?...

[FrankRep]

If a cop puts you in the back of the car and tells you to suck his dick Franks advise would be to just go ahead and do it and let the courts handle the matter.

I didn't see that in the Kelly Thomas video.

[JK/SEA]

I didn't see that in the Kelly Thomas video.

sadly, i would have agreed with you on police bootlicking a few years ago, and well...you go right ahead.

We call those 'suck points'....have at it.

[phill4paul]

I didn't see that in the Kelly Thomas video.

But you do know that it can and, in fact, does happen. Everything from vaginal-rectal searches, sodomizing, rape, torture, beating and death. Every day. Somewhere in Amerika. And your advise is to let them just go ahead and cuff you and take away any chance you might have to defend yourself. So.........

[FrankRep]

But you do know that it can and, in fact, does happen. Everything from vaginal-rectal searches, sodomizing, rape, torture, beating and death. Every day. Somewhere in Amerika. And your advise is to let them just go ahead and cuff you and take away any chance you might have to defend yourself. So.........

I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video.

[JK/SEA]

I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video.

what was the cause of death?

[osan]

I just realize the statism exists and fighting the cops will lead to negative consequences. That doesn't make me a statist.

Bullshit, Frank. That is NOT all you realized. You explicitly stated that those cops were GUILTLESS. Your words. To wit:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by FrankRep http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=5375369#post5375369)
The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.


I would add that if enough people "fight the cops" the cops will lose.

If you are not a statist, and I question your claim, you are a defeatist. Furthermore, you should keep better tabs on your own beliefs, or at least the ones you express in writing in forums like this because thus far you claim one thing, then say you didn't. You'd earn some respect back if you simply stopped, admitted you were wrong, and went on.

[phill4paul]

I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video.

I'm talking about your stated position in a thread on the Kelly Thomas video.



Even if I felt I was unfairly targeted by the police, I would still cooperate and if they violated my rights, I could hit them with a lawsuit later. Resisting and fighting the police never ends well.


I would still cooperate with the police even if I felt my rights were being violated. I could file a complaint and lawsuit after the fact.

[JK/SEA]

Bullshit, Frank. That is NOT all you realized. You explicitly stated that those cops were GUILTLESS. Your words. To wit:



I would add that if enough people "fight the cops" the cops will lose.

If you are not a statist, and I question your claim, you are a defeatist. Furthermore, you should keep better tabs on your own beliefs, or at least the ones you express in writing in forums like this because thus far you claim one thing, then say you didn't. You'd earn some respect back if you simply stopped, admitted you were wrong, and went on.

Frank has relatives in LE...

nuff said...and the beat, or beatings, goes on.

Follow the money...or pay check.

[belian78]

Nice Collectivist statement. "Cops have a history of violence."

Not the cops I know.

My brother-in-law is a cop and a Ron Paul supporter.
Yeah? Ask him how he squares that with his conscience. If he sees even one thing that undermines our rights and he says nothing, he is just as bad as these fucks that killed Kelly Thomas, in my mind.

[EBounding]

Take the badges away from the situation. There's no cops anywhere. You and your neighbors see this weird homeless guy trying to open car doors or something. Would beating him to death be the appropriate response?

[belian78]

I'm a Rand Paul-shill.
Bullshit you are, come this time next year you will be doing your best to convince everyone they should get behind Ted because he 'has a real chance to win'. It will be the time leading up to the Iowa strawpoll and you/compromise/capt and the rest will be humping these boards daily. Mark my words.

[belian78]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.
Disgusting apologist.

[PaulConventionWV]

If Kelly Thomas would have cooperated with the police, even just a little, all this would have been avoided.

The jury found the police officers innocent as well.

Even if I felt I was unfairly targeted by the police, I would still cooperate and if they violated my rights, I could hit them with a lawsuit later. Resisting and fighting the police never ends well.

Does that make it right, though? Just because you can expect that type of behavior from the cops, it doesn't mean you should. They're not supposed to kill people for what Kelly Thomas was doing, which is essentially nothing. He was minding his own business and being peacefully non-compliant and somewhat annoying until they started getting violent and then proceeded to beat him to death.

Should we all just comply in fear for our lives? I don't know about you, but I don't think it's right to have to live in fear because any slight measure of non-compliance could be construed as a threat to officer safety, at which point they beat you without mercy. No, sorry, that is not like any America I want to live in. Compliance may save you from death, but it won't give you life.

[PaulConventionWV]

I took an unpopular position so go ahead and attack me if you want.

Your view is NOT unpopular. Once you step outside of RPFs, your view is probably pretty widespread. Besides, just the fact that you went "against the grain" does not make you right. It just means you have a minority complex and that being in the minority makes you feel superior to everyone else.

In any case, telling someone you took an unpopular position is not an argument, so your big-headed response about being unpopular won't win you any support. You're just as wrong now as you were before despite us telling you so.

[PaulConventionWV]

The jury also found the police officers not guilty. So all the jurors are now psychopaths?

Who was on the jury, Frank?

[PaulConventionWV]

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/schizophrenia/index.shtml?utm_source=publish2&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=www.kpbs.org

You need to educate yourself on schizophrenia. Your position isn't just unpopular, it is ignorant. To acknowledge he is schizophrenic and then say he is an idiot and brought this upon himself is unconscionable. You are a living example of the levels to which people will go to excuse the behavior of the state.

My aunt has schizophrenia. If this was my aunt and Frank was saying these same things about her, well let's just say he would bring the consequences upon himself.

[Christian Liberty]

Bullshit, Frank. That is NOT all you realized. You explicitly stated that those cops were GUILTLESS. Your words. To wit:



I would add that if enough people "fight the cops" the cops will lose.

If you are not a statist, and I question your claim, you are a defeatist. Furthermore, you should keep better tabs on your own beliefs, or at least the ones you express in writing in forums like this because thus far you claim one thing, then say you didn't. You'd earn some respect back if you simply stopped, admitted you were wrong, and went on.

Sometimes I feel like a defeatist. But I don't act like other people are somehow "bad" for having more guts than me.

[Christian Liberty]

Your view is NOT unpopular. Once you step outside of RPFs, your view is probably pretty widespread. Besides, just the fact that you went "against the grain" does not make you right. It just means you have a minority complex and that being in the minority makes you feel superior to everyone else.

In any case, telling someone you took an unpopular position is not an argument, so your big-headed response about being unpopular won't win you any support. You're just as wrong now as you were before despite us telling you so.

Correct. He's not even a minority. And if he were, that would make him more STATIST than the average person. That's not a good thing.

[PaulConventionWV]

I just realize the statism exists and fighting the cops will lead to negative consequences. That doesn't make me a statist.

Look, it doesn't take a genius to realize that fighting the cops will usually end very badly for you, but that doesn't justify anything. Is it even possible for you to make that distinction? There is a clear difference between consequences and deserved consequences.

[Christian Liberty]

Look, it doesn't take a genius to realize that fighting the cops will usually end very badly for you, but that doesn't justify anything. Is it even possible for you to make that distinction? There is a clear difference between consequences and deserved consequences.

But don't you know... if statism exists than its obviously a good thing. If the Nazis try to round you up in a concentration camp, you obviously deserved it. And if an uppity Jew "resists" the SS has a right to kill them and not be declared guilty. Right Frank?

[PaulConventionWV]

If cops are holding me down to the ground, I would stop resisting. If I continued to resist, the cops will use stronger force and the consequences are on me. Just stop resisting and hit the cops with a lawsuit later.

Did you not see the part of the video where he repeatedly yelled that he couldn't comply and expressed his will to comply in between screams of pain?

Also, has it not occurred to you yet that he was schizophrenic? Why don't you get that little fact through your head?

[FrankRep]

Bullshit you are, come this time next year you will be doing your best to convince everyone they should get behind Ted because he 'has a real chance to win'. It will be the time leading up to the Iowa strawpoll and you/compromise/capt and the rest will be humping these boards daily. Mark my words.

I support Rand Paul, not Ted Cruz.

[phill4paul]

Did you not see the part of the video where he repeatedly yelled that he couldn't comply and expressed his will to comply in between screams of pain?

Also, has it not occurred to you yet that he was schizophrenic? Why don't you get that little fact through your head?

He understands that Kelly Thomas was schizophrenic. He is just willfully ignorant about what that entails.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video.

Oh, and here I was thinking this whole Kelly Thomas thing was just a small part of the larger dialogue on police brutality in America.

Wait a second, that's what it is! Nobody's here JUST because of Kelly Thomas. They're here because they know it could happen to them or someone they love. That's why we're fighting against it. It's not just about Kelly Thomas. It's about exposing the small fraction of this stuff that we're lucky enough to catch on camera in order to reveal the much larger trend of police brutality that happens every freaking day in this country.

[RickyJ]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

If I beat the crap out of you and you resist in any way then I guess it would be OK then if you wound up dead, according to your logic you would have done it to yourself. The cops were not trying to restrain him, they were beating the crap out of him.

[Christian Liberty]

I support Rand Paul, not Ted Cruz.

Are you trying to convince us not to support Rand Paul?

[Anti Federalist]

Nice Collectivist statement. "Cops have a history of violence."

Not the cops I know.

My brother-in-law is a cop and a Ron Paul supporter.

Ah, now I see.

Does he denounce what these cops did, or does he say they were justified?

[phill4paul]

Ah, now I see.

Does he denounce what these cops did, or does he say they were justified?

LOL.. What do you think, before I quote him? Better go pour a strong one.

[Anti Federalist]

I didn't see that in the Kelly Thomas video.

Do you resist or not?

A cop pulls you over, drags your wife out of the car, and starts to rape her on the side of the road...DO YOU RESIST?

There's no nuance, there's no more words, false morality, spiritual mumbo jumbo or philosophical circle jerking.

DO YOU RESIST?

Yes or fucking no.

[Anti Federalist]

LOL.. What do you think, before I quote him? Better go pour a strong one.

Pfffttt... I got a pretty good idea.

Love to see it though.

[phill4paul]

Pfffttt... I got a pretty good idea.

Love to see it though.

Here ya goes....


Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

[Anti Federalist]

Here ya goes....

I saw that...I figgered we were being trolled.

What did they call those Jews that were protected by the Nazis, to go among the camps and ghettos, telling other Jews to be passive and submissive and don't agitate or resist the Germans, because that will just make it worse for all of us?

Damn it...they had a Yiddish pejorative for them...on the tip of my tongue....

[phill4paul]

I saw that...I figgered we were being trolled.

What did they call those Jews that were protected by the Nazis, to go among the camps and ghettos, telling other Jews to be passive and submissive and don't agitate or resist the Germans, because that will just make it worse for all of us?

Damn it...they had a Yiddish pejorative for them...on the tip of my tongue....

Shtik drek? Shtarker? Tochus leker? Shvuntz? Shtinker?

[moostraks]

My aunt has schizophrenia. If this was my aunt and Frank was saying these same things about her, well let's just say he would bring the consequences upon himself.
My Aunt is also, and I have known some others. It is so frustrating to see this type of ignorance and lack of compassion.

Oh, and here I was thinking this whole Kelly Thomas thing was just a small part of the larger dialogue on police brutality in America.

Wait a second, that's what it is! Nobody's here JUST because of Kelly Thomas. They're here because they know it could happen to them or someone they love. That's why we're fighting against it. It's not just about Kelly Thomas. It's about exposing the small fraction of this stuff that we're lucky enough to catch on camera in order to reveal the much larger trend of police brutality that happens every freaking day in this country.
Well said...

[Snew]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

Top 10 worst posts I've read on this board

[Anti Federalist]

Shtinker?

That's it...a rat, an informant, a shank.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh, and here I was thinking this whole Kelly Thomas thing was just a small part of the larger dialogue on police brutality in America.

Wait a second, that's what it is! Nobody's here JUST because of Kelly Thomas. They're here because they know it could happen to them or someone they love. That's why we're fighting against it. It's not just about Kelly Thomas. It's about exposing the small fraction of this stuff that we're lucky enough to catch on camera in order to reveal the much larger trend of police brutality that happens every freaking day in this country.

And even that, as a whole, is just an indicator, a symptom, of the descending choking miasma of heavy handed authoritarianism that is settling over the nation like an enveloping fog.

[phill4paul]

That's it...a rat, an informant, a shank.

I'm sure this was said often by those in the camps....

"Got zol im bentshn mit dray mentshn: eyner zol im haltn, der tsveyter zol im shpaltn un der driter zol im ba�haltn."

(God should bless him with three people: one should grab him, the second should stab him and the third should hide him.)

Not my translation. I don't know Yiddish that well.

[CCTelander]

what was the cause of death again?...


Well clearly they killed him with kindness.

[Anti Federalist]

Well clearly they killed him with kindness.

Time to bump your police thread again

[pcosmar]

Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Kelly-Thomas-Police-Beating.jpg

You are a sick excuse for a human being. :(

[CCTelander]

Time to bump your police thread again


Good idea. Done.

[Seraphim]

Awwww holy shit I wish I didn't watch that.

They beat the shit out of him, taze him while he begs for his life and then when the next wave of first responders arrive the first thing the original police officers do is begin to slander the now barely alive man saying "he's on something, it took us all to take him down".

Disgusting and enraging...

[Mani]

Awwww holy shit I wish I didn't watch that.

They beat the shit out of him, taze him while he begs for his life and then when the next wave of first responders arrive the first thing the original police officers do is begin to slander the now barely alive man saying "he's on something, it took us all to take him down".

Disgusting and enraging...

I hadn't watched the video until this thread popped up and the Troll starting making nonsense comments. I wished I never watched it. It was horrifying to see a man minding his own business and being non compliant yet completely NON THREATENING, and then pommeled to death. And see blood on the concrete everywhere and hearing the killer admit, "I smashed his face to hell..."

It was awful hearing a man crying out for help, apologizing, and crying out to his father, as his face "smashed to hell" because he's not sitting still. All because he couldn't hold the "CORRECT POSTURE."


Regarding why the jurors voted not guilty, it seems the defendants were able to turn Kelly Thomas into a scary violent psychotic drug induced maniac.


That being said there was so much outrage about the Rodney King beatings, and yet comparatively Rodney King had a worse criminal history, and was in fact drunk at the time (not that it justifies the beatings). Eventually after the 4 officers got off, in the Federal Court later on, 2 of them went to jail. We can still hold out hope, then Kelly Thomas's murders may still end up behind bars.

[tod evans]

We can still hold out hope, then Kelly Thomas's murders may still end up behind bars.

You may if you'd like.

Me, I hold out hope that either a friend or some stranger who's fed-up extracts vengeance in like kind.

I have no faith whatsoever in the "Just-Us" system.

[Danke]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.


F*ck You Frank.

[Occam's Banana]

If a cop puts you in the back of the car and tells you to suck his dick Franks advise would be to just go ahead and do it and let the courts handle the matter.

I didn't see that in the Kelly Thomas video.

Do you resist or not?

A cop pulls you over, drags your wife out of the car, and starts to rape her on the side of the road...DO YOU RESIST?

There's no nuance, there's no more words, false morality, spiritual mumbo jumbo or philosophical circle jerking.

DO YOU RESIST?

Yes or fucking no.

No. You absolutely do not resist under any circumstances.
You just let whatever it is happen and then file a complaint afterwards.
(Maybe even a lawsuit - if you're really, really miffed about it.)

Otherwise, it's all your fault - you did it to yourself. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[robmpreston]

I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video.
Yes, and by your own admission you would allow your rights to be violated because they are TEH COPPERS and there's nothing you can do.

You'd allow yourself to be sodomized by police because it's pointless to resist.

You'd sit by and watch them beat your father to death because it's pointless to resist.

You'd stand around and shrug your shoulders as your sister was raped by a pack of officers, because it's pointless to resist.

You don't see anything wrong with this?

Oh wait, you'll just reply "I'm talking about the Kelly Thomas video"

No, you aren't. Your responses about how he should have handled himself are generic and indicate you'd ALWAYS bend over for the boys in blue.

You are one twisted individual.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm sure this was said often by those in the camps....

"Got zol im bentshn mit dray mentshn: eyner zol im haltn, der tsveyter zol im shpaltn un der driter zol im ba�haltn."

(God should bless him with three people: one should grab him, the second should stab him and the third should hide him.)

Not my translation. I don't know Yiddish that well.

Is Yiddish just German with really bad spelling?

[PaulConventionWV]

I hadn't watched the video until this thread popped up and the Troll starting making nonsense comments. I wished I never watched it. It was horrifying to see a man minding his own business and being non compliant yet completely NON THREATENING, and then pommeled to death. And see blood on the concrete everywhere and hearing the killer admit, "I smashed his face to hell..."

It was awful hearing a man crying out for help, apologizing, and crying out to his father, as his face "smashed to hell" because he's not sitting still. All because he couldn't hold the "CORRECT POSTURE."


Regarding why the jurors voted not guilty, it seems the defendants were able to turn Kelly Thomas into a scary violent psychotic drug induced maniac.


That being said there was so much outrage about the Rodney King beatings, and yet comparatively Rodney King had a worse criminal history, and was in fact drunk at the time (not that it justifies the beatings). Eventually after the 4 officers got off, in the Federal Court later on, 2 of them went to jail. We can still hold out hope, then Kelly Thomas's murders may still end up behind bars.

I tend to believe that the jury was tampered. At least, for humanity's sake, I HOPE that's the case.

[Philhelm]

I (almost) can't believe that anyone here would defend the police on this. Someone needs to wipe pig juice from his chin.

[Occam's Banana]

I tend to believe that the jury was tampered. At least, for humanity's sake, I HOPE that's the case.

I recall someone saying something about the jury foreman having once been employed by the DA's office or some such ...

[phill4paul]

Is Yiddish just German with really bad spelling?

Lol. Apparently so as it's origins are in German. Was married to girl of Jewish decent so only picked up on a few phrases.

[GunnyFreedom]

Is Yiddish just German with really bad spelling?

Not really, but you are closer than you think. Yiddish is German that has been 'Hebrew-acized.' So in many cases "German with really bad spelling" is how it will appear, but that's not really what it is, at it's heart. There will be some actual differences in vocabulary and construction.

[jmdrake]

Was Kelly Thomas on PCP or something? The guy is out of his mind.


Edit:

He's still fighting the cops!

See kids, don't do drugs.

Are we watching the same video? Kelly Thomas was calm and peaceful for the first 15 minutes. Look 15 minutes in. It was the cop that started the aggression. "Do you see my fists? They are about to fuck you up."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yaeD-E_MY

That was per-meditated murder by cop. Kelly cooperated as best he could until the police first became totally unreasonable and then began beating him without him doing anything to them. Resisting? So now trying to protect yourself from an unlawful, unjust, uncalled for beating is "resisting?" Bullshit! This wasn't Rodney King high on PCP leading the police on some long case. This was a man, a human being, a child of God, answering questions he didn't have to answer, submitting to an unlawful search, sitting down when requested, putting his feet out on request, putting his hands on his knees on request even though he didn't understand what was being asked of him or why. I would expect crap like this in Cuba or North Korea. I don't expect it in the U.S.

[GunnyFreedom]

Are we watching the same video? Kelly Thomas was calm and peaceful for the first 15 minutes. Look 15 minutes in. It was the cop that started the aggression. "Do you see my fists? They are about to fuck you up."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yaeD-E_MY

That was per-meditated murder by cop. Kelly cooperated as best he could until the police first became totally unreasonable and then began beating him without him doing anything to them. Resisting? So now trying to protect yourself from an unlawful, unjust, uncalled for beating is "resisting?" Bullshit! This wasn't Rodney King high on PCP leading the police on some long case. This was a man, a human being, a child of God, answering questions he didn't have to answer, submitting to an unlawful search, sitting down when requested, putting his feet out on request, putting his hands on his knees on request even though he didn't understand what was being asked of him or why. I would expect crap like this in Cuba or North Korea. I don't expect it in the U.S.

Never mind that no drugs whatever were found in Kelly's system. And yes, he did watch the video. He even gave a boot-licking play-by-play justifying every punch and elbow.

[jmdrake]

I hadn't watched the video until this thread popped up and the Troll starting making nonsense comments. I wished I never watched it. It was horrifying to see a man minding his own business and being non compliant yet completely NON THREATENING, and then pommeled to death. And see blood on the concrete everywhere and hearing the killer admit, "I smashed his face to hell..."

It was awful hearing a man crying out for help, apologizing, and crying out to his father, as his face "smashed to hell" because he's not sitting still. All because he couldn't hold the "CORRECT POSTURE."


Regarding why the jurors voted not guilty, it seems the defendants were able to turn Kelly Thomas into a scary violent psychotic drug induced maniac.


That being said there was so much outrage about the Rodney King beatings, and yet comparatively Rodney King had a worse criminal history, and was in fact drunk at the time (not that it justifies the beatings). Eventually after the 4 officers got off, in the Federal Court later on, 2 of them went to jail. We can still hold out hope, then Kelly Thomas's murders may still end up behind bars.

Rodney King was black. Black folks rioted after the verdict. White folks can't decide if they want to get angry or if they want to defend the cops that did this even though one of them was Hispanic. Sorry for boiling this all down to race. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. But nothing unites black people like police brutality.

Edit: And I want to be clear. I'm not advocating a riot. But can't majority Americans at least get mad enough when something like this happens for an angry march or something?

[jmdrake]

Never mind that no drugs whatever were found in Kelly's system. And yes, he did watch the video. He even gave a boot-licking play-by-play justifying every punch and elbow.

I can't watch the whole thing. Once it became clear that Kelly was cooperating 100% with reasonable and unreasonable requests, and that the cop said "I'm going to fuck you up with my fists" and the cops (plural) started hitting him with fists and nightsticks and Kelly still hadn't done anything aggressive I was like "What's the point in watching further?" Seriously, at that point if Kelly had gone all Billy Jack on them it would have been justified. And we're supposed to be part of a movement that looks up to the founding fathers? I wonder how some of us would have analyzed the Boston Massacre? "The unarmed men were throwing snowballs at the British troops so naturally the British troops opened fire killing five of them."

[phill4paul]

I can't watch the whole thing. Once it became clear that Kelly was cooperating 100% with reasonable and unreasonable requests, and that the cop said "I'm going to fuck you up with my fists" and the cops (plural) started hitting him with fists and nightsticks and Kelly still hadn't done anything aggressive I was like "What's the point in watching further?" Seriously, at that point if Kelly had gone all Billy Jack on them it would have been justified. And we're supposed to be part of a movement that looks up to the founding fathers? I wonder how some of us would have analyzed the Boston Massacre? "The unarmed men were throwing snowballs at the British troops so naturally the British troops opened fire killing five of them."

Those brave British troops, heroes one and all, didn't know if there were explosives hidden in those snowballs. No one understands the stress these soldiers are under.

[GunnyFreedom]

Those brave British troops, heroes one and all, didn't know if there were explosives hidden in those snowballs. No one understands the stress these soldiers are under.

The brave British soldiers shouted "Don't Resist!" and what did they do?

They fought and resisted!

So the kind soldiers started shooting and gave them another chance,

screaming "Don't Resist" as vollies of lead were flunk into the unruly crowd of snowballers

and what did they do?

They fought and resisted!

The snowballers did it to themselves.

[Occam's Banana]

Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

And so a new RPFs meme is born ...

[Christian Liberty]

Do you resist or not?

A cop pulls you over, drags your wife out of the car, and starts to rape her on the side of the road...DO YOU RESIST?

There's no nuance, there's no more words, false morality, spiritual mumbo jumbo or philosophical circle jerking.

DO YOU RESIST?

Yes or fucking no.

Yes, I would. I'm not married, but it doesn't matter. If I saw a cop doing that to any woman, anywhere, and I had a gun on me, that cop would die. No questions asked.

[Anti Federalist]

////

[phill4paul]

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1545565_10201176705239752_519489706_n.jpg

[aGameOfThrones]

"There are four types of people who join the police. For some, it's family trade. Others are patriots, eager to serve. Next you have those who just need a job. Than there's the kind who want the legal means of killing other people."

[enjerth]

The police officer was being nice to Kelly Thomas and talking to him in a friendly manner. The cop was trying to get information because someone was breaking into cars.

What does Kelly Thomas do? Pretend he couldn't speak English while ... speaking English.

Kelly Thomas doesn't even know his own name...


Kelly Thomas is asking for trouble. I'm only 15 stupid minutes into this video.

Well, if you want to play that game...

Cops were asking for trouble when they singled out a man they had no reason to suspect, a man with whom they have a history of violent confrontation, whom they knew had a mental illness, and then proceed to harass and assault him for a statement to the point of killing him for non-compliance.

Did you know that you have the right to remain silent even before they announce that you have that right?

Did you know that they can lie to you all day long in the course of investigation?

What kind of answer should you give a liar who's trying to catch you at something? No answer is generally the best answer if you feel they are threatening.

The officers failed to to observe the right of the individual to refuse to give testimony. They tried to convince him with violence, which they had no legal authority to do so.

They also had no legal authority to make terroristic threats. As far as I'm concerned, the moment the police first threatened him with violence is the moment they stepped out of line, legally, and from then on they were acting "under the color of law".

There's a psychological battle going on here as well. It's a battle that police fight every day, where they require of the suspect total submission. But that battle starts going the wrong way the moment that violence is introduced.

When police instigate the violence, especially without proper justification, their goal of subjugation is set back by human survival response. Putting your hands behind your back and giving up to someone you don't trust is a most unnatural response, but even more so if they instigated the violence.

The police are at war with natural human response, and abusing it with wild success.

If Mr. Thomas had somehow managed to kill his attackers, would he have been justified?

[aGameOfThrones]

Would like a hung jury.



Jail free note for those who understand my meaning: LOL jk

[DGambler]

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/12/24/good-cops/


All cops are bad – by definition.

Harsh statement? Certainly. It does not make it less true – like an accurate terminal cancer diagnosis. Pretending otherwise doesn’t alter the reality.

Whether the cops themselves are conscious of their badness is immaterial.

No doubt, many cops (as distinct from peace officers) believe in their hearts (and perhaps even their minds) that they are “good men” doing righteous work.

It does not make it so.

The average Nazi functionary was not a frothing fanatic, either. He was a good German with a wife and kids he doted on, who – in his own mind – believed he was doing the right thing.

Which, in his mind, meant enforcing the laws of the state.

The East German Stasi man believed this also.

Just as buzz cut Officer 82nd Airborne believes it today.

Most cops are probably not conscious sadists – though of course, many are.

They enforce the laws. It’s what they do. It does not matter what the law is. Merely that it is the law. Many will tell you so themselves. The law is the law. I’m just doing my job. The same things were said in the Soviet Union, in Nazi Germany, everywhere that authority rather than right was reverenced.

Or where the two were confused and regarded as the same thing.

As has become the case in the U.S. today.

Most of the laws on the books (as in Nazi Germany, as in the Soviet Union, as in post-war East Germany) criminalize innumerable actions (and even non-actions, such as failing to buy now-mandatory health insurance) that involve no harm to other people or their property – but rather constitute “offenses” against the state and its statutes.

It is the job of cops to force people to submit and obey – period.

Cops are not expected to consider the rightness or wrongness of an action as such; only whether a given action (or non-action) is illegal. It is the same mentality expressed by a genuinely bewildered Adolf Eichmann at his trial in Israel for war crimes.

He was merely following orders.

Inevitably, as this corruption of the soul takes hold, any challenge to the state’s limitless authority becomes – in the minds of those charged with protecting the state’s authority – the essence of wrongness.

And the response to any perceived threat to this authority grows ever more brutal and disproportionate.

Evildoers must be punished. A Manichean – but morally subjective – worldview takes hold. Ordnung muss sein.

It rapidly takes on the fervor of a crusade, becomes strident and militant, harsh – a sickening admixture of obeisance to and worshipfulness of the state.

There is talk of heroes. Not in reference to people to people who risk their own lives to try to help save another person’s life. But in reference to those who take other people’s lives (or merely ruin them) in order to enforce compliance with the state’s authority.

They talked about heroes in Soviet Russia, too.

And there was the cult of the soldat in National Socialist Germany – where the highest honor was to wear a uniform and to “serve.”

Does it sound familiar?

Echoes from the past, unheeded.

But there is this crucial difference between cops in the United State (singular, on purpose – in the interests of editorial accuracy) and the enforcer class in the Union of Soviet Soviet Socialist Republics, the Deutsche Demokratische Republik or its nationalsozialist predecessor: Cops in the United State have opted to abuse their fellow human beings when they could just as easily opt not to abuse them.

But they choose – freely – to abuse others.

To get paid to do it.

That makes them very bad indeed.

Worse, in fact, than someone like Eichmann or a Soviet or Stasi goon – since those guys literally faced the choice of doing as ordered or being thrown into a camp (or much worse) if they did not.

It was them – and their families – or someone else and his family.

A much harder choice.

No American cop faces this choice.

Not yet.

They can still walk away.

But very few ever do.

Instead, they enforce the law. Any law – all laws. As relentlessly, as remorselessly as their historical counterparts. They kick in doors and frog march people out of their homes at gunpoint (as in Boston) and elsewhere. They subject minor traffic scofflaws and even those who have scoffed no laws at all to repeated anal-digital (and vaginal digital) rape. They beat up – and murder – 13-year-olds. They summarily execute people’s pets (here and here). Always in the name of “doing their jobs.” And always without remorse. The prior linked-to items are not the exceptions. They are fast becoming the rule – the new normal. I’ve cataloged several hundred examples (see here).

And those who commit these atrocities do so by choice.

A guy may elect to pursue a career in law enforcement with naive but noble intent. He wants to spend his workdays protecting the public, going after criminals. But he soon finds that he will spend most of his “career” threatening to kidnap and cage people for having transgressed any of the endless multitude of statutes that define “offenses” against the state, but which entail no actual harm to other people or their property. He will “bust” people for having committed these offenses – knowing they’ve caused no harm to anyone. He will participate routinely in actions no different in their essence than the things for which his predecessors – from the Redcoats of 1776 to the SA men of 1936 – history excoriates.

Cognitive dissonance, of course, puts up a two-inch thick Plexiglass wall between his mind and his conscience – and he continues to enforce the law and feel good about doing it. Certainly, he does not feel guilty about what he does.

But cognitive dissonance does not absolve him of his crimes – and that’s what they are - any more than Eichmann’s plaintive excuse that he was just following orders – which of course he was – absolved him of his.

You tell me: Does a good man choose – freely – under no coercion – to put on a special outfit and abuse his fellow man at gunpoint?

And if he does, what do we make of him? What shall we call him?

Yes, it’s harsh a verdict.

But hard truths must be faced.

Else the insanity will never be checked.

[Cleaner44]

I will continue the video, but Kelly Thomas is being a complete idiot right now. The cops are trying to be nice with him.

No you are being a complete idiot.


"See my fists?"

"Yeah, what about them?"

"They're getting ready to fuck you up."

It is not the job of Kelly Thomas to dance like a puppet for the cops. It is the job of police to act like professionals, which they clearly failed to do. I never realized you were a boot licking ass before.

[phill4paul]

Would like a hung jury.



Jail free note for those who understand my meaning: LOL jk

I'm guessing it has less to do with balls and more to do with neck.

[Anti Federalist]

It is not the job of Kelly Thomas to dance like a puppet for the cops.

Yes you will, maggot.

You'll dance when we tell you to.

You'll frog march when we tell you to.

You'll comply when we tell you to. - Officer Friendly

[Occam's Banana]

It is not the job of Kelly Thomas to dance like a puppet for the cops.


Yes you will, maggot.

You'll dance when we tell you to.

You'll frog march when we tell you to.

You'll comply when we tell you to. - Officer Friendly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciez9G4cADE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciez9G4cADE

[osan]

Is Yiddish just German with really bad spelling?


Yiddish is not a well defined language. Jews from different nations will partly misunderstand each others' yiddish because it is a complete hodgepodge of many languages. Mostly German, which I would call its "core", but there is plenty of Russian, Czech, Polish, Dutch, and so on. I can understand some of it, but I get lost quickly.

[osan]

Yes you will, maggot.

You'll dance when we tell you to.

You'll frog march when we tell you to.

You'll comply when we tell you to. - Officer Friendly

Yes, we will. But one day when you least expect it we will emerge from the darkness, cut you into several pieces, not one of which shall qualify as a minimally viable human being. We will go on and you will be gone, and your children will be orphaned, and from your corner of hell you will be thankful that we are just men and did not butcher your whelps just for the sake of putting a finer point upon the concept of revenge, even though it laid within our power to do so. You will live just long enough to endlessly rue the unjust choices you have made in your life, the bitter lying in the knowledge that you and only you were responsible for your fate.

[Christian Liberty]

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/12/24/good-cops/

I mostly agree with Eric on principle, but I'd be happy if I could get the average person to see half the principle that Eric presents.

Most people just don't care, and that's the aggravating thing. God bless real Americans like Ron Paul, Edward Snowden, et al for actually caring enough to do something.

[Christian Liberty]

Yes, we will. But one day when you least expect it we will emerge from the darkness, cut you into several pieces, not one of which shall qualify as a minimally viable human being. We will go on and you will be gone, and your children will be orphaned, and from your corner of hell you will be thankful that we are just men and did not butcher your whelps just for the sake of putting a finer point upon the concept of revenge, even though it laid within our power to do so. You will live just long enough to endlessly rue the unjust choices you have made in your life, the bitter lying in the knowledge that you and only you were responsible for your fate.

I wish I were this optimistic. Its gruesome, yes, but I still wish I could be that optimistic. I cannot.

[osan]

I wish I were this optimistic. Its gruesome, yes, but I still wish I could be that optimistic. I cannot.

There is no sense in not being optimistic. A major goal of psywar is the destruction of morale, of outlook, of hope, because it gives rise to resignation and apathy. After all, why figth if there is no way to win? There are many other dimensions to this, but suffice here what I have written.

Now engage your analytic thinker. What have you to lose by remaining optimistic? Nothing. If you are wrong, the worst that will happen is you will be abjectly and uterly subjugated and your life become unworthy of the label, having been reduced to mere existence as the property of another and subject to random caprice. If you are less unfortunate, your material life will be snuffed out like a candle, in which case your misery will be at an end. Either way, it will have turned out for the worse and your freedom will be stolen from you.

But until that moment arrives, the possibility of other outcomes remains no matter how remote they may seem. If your mind is weakened with thoughts of how impossible is the situation, you have all but handed victory to Themme. You have aided and abetted Themme in monumental ways that may not be apparent to you now, or ever. If you surrender the strength of your spirit to expectations of despair, you better guarantee that fulfillment. If you are going to do that, then I would suggest you depart from your current position as a young believer in freedom and submit yourself now to Theire care and command as it may reserve to you a comparatively better position in the new world to come. As the old saying goes, if you can't beat them, join them. I tell you this because you are concerned with outcomes, which means you are not a warrior, but a hand-wringer and accountant. I am not judging you here, so take no exception as I offer no offense, but am merely telling you the truth.

The other possibility is that you are a warrior spirit with a few things yet to learn about the correct way in with which to comport yourself. In that case I will respectfully recommend that you free yourself of the concern with winning and losing and focus your mind only on living properly, devoting yourself to it in your every action, come what may. When fear is reigned in and kept on its appropriately proportioned leash, your life takes on a very different character. You become unconcerned with petty issues that would otherwise fill your mind with worry, thereby distracting your thoughts from the truer issues in your life; the things that actually matter.

This is the way of the samurai, of bushido. Read "Hagakure" and "The Unfettered Mind", and others. Read your Bible. When you develop the skill to read beyond the superficialities of culture and circumstance, enabling you to plumb the deeper meanings of all these writings, you will come to see that there are no conflicts. Jesus was a samurai before there were samurai. Did he not admonish the dispensation with morbid fear? Did he not remind you to cease being concerned with winning and losing for the sake of doing what is right by God? This is no different than the inner teachings of bushido.

If you are a warrior who believes in right and wrong, then believe all the way and not in half-measure. Doubt is the ultimate killer for it withers the spirit with fear and thereby stymies right action. When right action is thwarted, good outcomes result only as matters of the wildest and rarest fluke. One basically destroys himself by that means. Is this what you want? If so, there are easier and more merciful ways to the same end; why endure the slower and agonizing process?

We all make this mistake - succumbing to the psychological assault that besets us from all sides and at virtually all times. You witness my failures in this when I express my pessimism in those moments of exasperation at the flawless stupidity in which we are all awash. There is nothing wrong with such momentary outbursts so long as we do not surrender to them. Drifting from the right path is no grand sin so long as we return and do not succumb to evil in our spirits through the admission of defeat because we let our fear drive us to despair. "Why should I go on?" is a reasonable question and a man can answer only for himself. But he can tell others why he chooses the way even in the face of apparent hopelessness.

In the end we are all dead men. Perhaps there is life after we pass into the Void - perhaps not. Either way, the only thing about our lives that will matter after we are gone is how we lived them; the choices we made. Were we warriors or were we cowards? Were we strong or weak? Did we comport ourselves honorably or as scoundrels? Did we do all we could to atone for our transgressions against others and ourselves? In short, all that will matter in the end is the quality of mind and spirit as you leave this world. Will you go, your head high for the things you did well and with sincere regret and apologies for the wrongs you knowingly did others? Or will you pass out of this life as a wretch, ignorant and stubborn to the end? The choice is yours, just as is the choice of how you live every moment of your life.

If you concern yourself with winning and losing, you place the quality of your time on this world into hands other than your own. But if you dispense with concern for outcomes, the quality of your spirit remains firmly yours. The choice is yours alone. No tyrant can take this from you, whether by stealth or brutality. It is only you who can hand yourself over to the evil of another. Bear that always in mind so that if you ever find yourself at a terrifying nexus, you will know the real score with clarity and will be able to make whatever decision you choose based on certainty rather than ignorance. But you will be ultimately held accountable for the choices you make.

I struggle with this daily. It is never easy and at times I still make poor decisions, but I always endeavor to improve and do better next time and that, perhaps more than anything else, is what really counts: attitude.

Do not worry, for all will be well in the end. Let ye not be driven to despair by the evil thou witnesseth. Be grateful, in fact, that thou art able and willing to recognize evil for what it is and that, rather than being resigned or indifferent to it, thou art repelled with violence by it, for that is the sign that God's gift is alive and well within thee. Never forget this. We may have no idea what our ultimate purpose is here, so cleave ye in all good humility to what thou knowest to be right and good and of God's pleasure and propriety, come what may. In the end, when to God ye shalt be called to answer, it is not he who shall judge thee, but only thyself. It is mine firm belief that when the innumerable superfluous noises of this human existence shall have been stripped away from thee, thou wilt judge thyself with a precise clarity devoid of the influence of those discordancies. Thine own voice shall in fact be God's, thundering in thine ear in account for the ways thou hast chosen, good or wicked, brave or cowardly, rightly or wrongly.



"Be just and fear not."

[osan]

I never realized you were an ass licking boot before.

Fixed that fer'ye.

Word order is important. :)

[osan]

http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/12/24/good-cops/

Ah yes, Eric Peters... he does well.

Good post.

[purplechoe]

No you are being a complete idiot.

It is not the job of Kelly Thomas to dance like a puppet for the cops. It is the job of police to act like professionals, which they clearly failed to do. I never realized you were a boot licking ass before.

I have, he's one of the ones that keep telling us how great Glenn Beck is and that he's coming around... :rolleyes:

http://www.policestateusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/KellyThomas-pleas.jpg

[purplechoe]

this whole thing is just so sad...

http://a.scpr.org/i/5ee66fd015af6bf749f25053eaf4b20d/75895-eight.jpg

[purplechoe]

http://cdn.firsttoknow.com/ftkupload/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Kelly_Thomas_Fullerton31.jpg

[PaulConventionWV]

Not really, but you are closer than you think. Yiddish is German that has been 'Hebrew-acized.' So in many cases "German with really bad spelling" is how it will appear, but that's not really what it is, at it's heart. There will be some actual differences in vocabulary and construction.

I see... interesting.

[PaulConventionWV]

Those brave British troops, heroes one and all, didn't know if there were explosives hidden in those snowballs. No one understands the stress these soldiers are under.

There were, in fact, rocks in the snowballs.

Ooooh, I bet that changes your whole perspective, right?

Oh... not really? Yeah, me neither.

[GunnyFreedom]

Fixed that fer'ye.

Word order is important. :)

English is one of the few languages where word order is indeed important.

[SeanTX]

It is not the job of Kelly Thomas to dance like a puppet for the cops.

A jury of 12 of his peers disagreed. You will dance, when you are told, or you will DIE, and it will be your fault.

[tod evans]

A jury of 12 of his peers disagreed. You will dance, when you are told, or you will DIE, and it will be your fault.

Those shills were not his peers!

[SeanTX]

Those shills were not his peers!

Yes, true, they were good, conservative Orange County residents who don't want bums hanging out on their streets. Like the ones at the Slidebar who called the cops and lied and said he was trying to break into cars. Which is the main reason there will be no justice for Kelly -- he was just a "bum" who nobody wanted around.

[Occam's Banana]

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to defend myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it!" - Colonel Nathan R. Jessup (A Few Good Men)


A jury of 12 of his peers disagreed. You will dance, when you are told, or you will DIE, and it will be your fault.


Those shills were not his peers!

The prosecutor was Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas.

The jury foreman was formerly employed in the DA's office under Rackauckas.

The presiding judge is married to an assistant DA in Rackauckas' office.

[Origanalist]

Those shills were not his peers!

Correct, and he wasn't on trial. It was a jury of the murderers peers. (The Banana, as usual, gets it right too)

[tod evans]

I'm outta rep for both of ya'....:o

[Origanalist]

I'm outta rep for both of ya'....:o

Damn recession.

[tod evans]

Damn recession.

Ha! Reloaded...:cool:

[Anti Federalist]

////

[Anti Federalist]

Kelly Thomas is being held down and told to stop resisting.

What does Kelly Thomas do?

Resist and Fight.

What does Kelly Thomas do after being tasered?

Resist and Fight.


Kelly Thomas did this to himself.

Did Frank drown in a sea of red neg rep pixels?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

He was acting like he was on PCP too.

How was he acting like he was on PCP? What is your experience with PCP? How does one act when they're on PCP? Do you know? Have you ever used PCP?

I watched the entire video. I saw no evidence whatsoever of anything like that.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

If Mr. Thomas had somehow managed to kill his attackers, would he have been justified?

Absolutely, and the pigs would have basically done it to themselves. The three necessary elements of means, motivation, and proximity were clearly present.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1545565_10201176705239752_519489706_n.jpg

I've been thinking about this all day. There have been some sorrowful videos on the forums, especially of dog shootings. This picture however, is the saddest picture I have seen on this forum, and one of the saddest pictures I have seen in a long time.

The video is right there for the world to see. Anybody--and I mean anybody--who can't see how that cowardly piece of filth antagonized Thomas is nothing but the enemy. The act was unequivocally antagonistic and cowardly. You watch this video and are totally beside yourself. I can't even imagine if this beaten person were in my family. It is incomprehensible.

This clearly marks the enemy. That coward who put on the gloves is your enemy. All the garbage like him are your enemy. There is no two ways about it.

[PRB]

The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.

You didn't answer the question. Did he deserve to die?

Is a tragedy your way of saying "no"?

The police are not guilty just like Bush is not guilty, just like OJ is not guilty, man, the courts are right about everything.

[PRB]

The police are not guilty. A tragedy happened, yes, but Kelly Thomas made bad choices.

You didn't answer the question. Did he deserve to die?

Is a tragedy your way of saying "no"?

The police are not guilty just like Bush is not guilty, just like OJ is not guilty, man, the courts are right about everything.

[osan]

Did Frank drown in a sea of red neg rep pixels?

Cannot say - I no longer pay attention to him. I was near incredulity after reading his rant and can only speculate he has a substance abuse problem, brain lesions, or works for "government" because no sane, rational, informed, and decent man would hold such an opinion.

[Spikender]

I'm pretty sure that FrankRep left specifically because of this topic. I haven't seen a single post from him anywhere since this topic ended.

I'm proud of that. Looking back over my argument with him, he could not and would not take the police baton out of his ass.

I understand if someone might criticize me for being too harsh on cops sometimes, but Frank was and probably still is the exact opposite: dyed-in-the-wool bootlicker who will excuse anything they do because they have a badge and the pretense of authority behind them.

[tod evans]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Spikender again.:o

[phill4paul]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Spikender again.:o

Covered. ;)

[Spikender]

I don't deserve it, as it was a group effort, but thanks, you guys. Makin' me feel all good inside!

On a side note, I've always thought of you two as the Edward Snowden brothers.

:D

[Cissy]

I would still cooperate with the police even if I felt my rights were being violated. I could file a complaint and lawsuit after the fact.

Even a cooperating peasant may be murdered at the whim of a knight of the realm.

If you choose to embrace slavery, you give those you deem your masters, your betters the power to decide to end your life.

[Cissy]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phil4paul again.