Police officers not guilty in Kelly Thomas beating death [Archive]

nbruno322

01-13-2014, 06:25 PM

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78884878/

An Orange County jury Monday found two former Fullerton police officers accused of killing a schizophrenic homeless man, Kelly Thomas, not guilty.

Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli were charged with striking Kelly Thomas with a baton and a stun gun in a beating that left him comatose. He died five days later.

[Updated at 4:12 p.m.: Ramos, Cicinelli and their families were swiftly escorted out of the courtroom.

Ron Thomas, Kelly Thomas' father, said he was stunned by the verdict, saying he'd never seen such a miscarriage of justice.]

The jury took less than a full day of deliberation to reach the not-guilty verdicts.

Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas told jurors the former officers had abused their authority on the July evening when they confronted Thomas.

Ramos was facing second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter charges, and Cicinelli was charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force under the color of authority.

The incident, captured on surveillance tape, was shown repeatedly during the trial, but each side drew different conclusions as to what it showed.

Prosecutors said the video captured a real-time homicide with the officers beating a homeless man, even as he called out for help. Defense attorneys said it showed two policeman trying to restrain a violent suspect who possessed abnormal strength.

The coroner's office determined that Thomas died of brain damage from lack of oxygen caused by chest compression and other injuries sustained during his struggle with police.

Defense attorneys suggested that Thomas' death could be tied to a diseased heart damaged by previous drug use.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 06:28 PM

That's what I get for praying...

SeanTX

01-13-2014, 06:30 PM

I kind of figured it would turn out this way. I guess if they want the job they can be rehired with back pay.

Origanalist

01-13-2014, 06:31 PM

Jury of their peers......

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 06:32 PM

That's what I get for praying...

AF... whatever you do, you can't blame God for this. Either Christ died for these people, or they are going to suffer in Hell for their sins. Either way.. justice will be done in God's time. God sometimes uses difficult circumstances for the sanctification of his people. Honestly, I think most Christians have a ridiculous statist "God and Country" mentality. Some of them are no doubt not saved, but for those who are, it may take a little tyranny to get them to realize that the US is not God's chosen nation. Or, God could be bringing these events to pass for some other reason.

Its hard, but keep praying.

Now, as for the apologists... they're the ones that REALLY make me mad.

Intoxiklown

01-13-2014, 06:34 PM

I don't have the fucking words.......

Lucille

01-13-2014, 06:34 PM

Just Us was served.

Who didn't see that coming? Stupid idiot jurors deserve a taste of the boot, but I won't wish it on them.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 06:35 PM

Of course, the people of Fullerton will cough up millions to the family in the soon to follow civil suit.

God bless those boys in blue.

Root

01-13-2014, 06:36 PM

I just knew it. Sorry Kelly. Rip.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 06:36 PM

I don't have the fucking words.......

I'd vote to convict any on-duty cop for just about anything at this point. They're already guilty for choosing to take the job. Some might not know it, some might be fundamentally good people at heart, but at the same time, in the political realm, this is war. Get 'em off the street.

Origanalist

01-13-2014, 06:36 PM

Just Us was served.

Who didn't see that coming? Stupid idiot jurors deserve a taste of the boot, but I won't wish it on them.

I do.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 06:36 PM

Of course, the people of Fullerton will cough up millions to the family in the soon to follow civil suit.

God bless those boys in blue.

Just out of curiosity, what would you do? I mean... regardless of whether you'd choose to go vigilante or not, would you not sue because the "boys in blue" would steal to pay the bill?

WM_in_MO

01-13-2014, 06:36 PM

Ramos' attorney, John Barnett, told reporters: "These peace officers were doing their jobs...they did what they were trained to do."

That's the problem.

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 06:39 PM

Just Us was served.

Who didn't see that coming? Stupid idiot jurors deserve a taste of the boot, but I won't wish it on them.

I will. I hope every one of them, and the ones they love, are beaten, tortured, raped, sodomized and tortured during the course of thier lives by a cop.

Root

01-13-2014, 06:40 PM

Notice to all pigs: you can use more force and get away with it.

Intoxiklown

01-13-2014, 06:42 PM

I'd vote to convict any on-duty cop for just about anything at this point. They're already guilty for choosing to take the job. Some might not know it, some might be fundamentally good people at heart, but at the same time, in the political realm, this is war. Get 'em off the street.

I am literally sick to my stomach at this.

As a father, I cannot begin to describe to you what that video did to me when I heard that man's mind resort to the only thing it could think of to make it stop, "Daddy help!". It sent shudders down my spine, and is why I have seen it only once, and cannot watch it again.

Were this my son, I would declare war on the entire system there. And I would start with their children.

Red Green

01-13-2014, 06:44 PM

OK, but did the 12 brave jurors make it home safe?

Red Green

01-13-2014, 06:45 PM

Notice to all pigs: you can use more force and get away with it.

Notice to everyone else: you might not want to count on being safe as the courts have spoken so you might need to take your safety from the pigs into your own hands.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 06:46 PM

Just out of curiosity, what would you do? I mean... regardless of whether you'd choose to go vigilante or not, would you not sue because the "boys in blue" would steal to pay the bill?

Of course I'd sue.

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 06:48 PM

The jury took less than a full day of deliberation to reach the not-guilty verdicts.

They had better shit to do than deliberate in a meaningful manner. Dinner and the Boobustube awaited.

HOLLYWOOD

01-13-2014, 06:49 PM

So... who picked the jurors? (First hurdle in the rigged system)

Any of these jurors get interviewed by media or a free pass walk?

Did the jurors just scurry out the back door under police escort?

Henry Rogue

01-13-2014, 06:51 PM

Disturbing, that these murderers go free. Even more disturbing that people are forced to pay for that murder. How does it feel, paying the wages of assassins?

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 06:54 PM

They had better shit to do than deliberate in a meaningful manner. Dinner and the Boobustube awaited.

Those brave officers were just taking out the trash.

I'm with you...Christian charity be damned...may these jurors and their children be ass raped by cops.

aGameOfThrones

01-13-2014, 06:54 PM

Justice-improvement list:

* 1 dorner

* 14 one size fits all rope

* 14 here lies piece of shit signs

* A copy of Law Abiding Citizen, popcorn and a 32oz soda.

No jail note: LOL JK

SeanTX

01-13-2014, 06:55 PM

So... who picked the jurors? (First hurdle in the rigged system)

It wouldn't surprise me if they went out of their way to fill the jury with cops, former cops, family members of cops, city employees, etc.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 06:56 PM

It wouldn't surprise me if they went out of their way to fill the jury with cops, former cops, family members of cops, city employees, etc.

I'm guessing that's for sure.

jmdrake

01-13-2014, 06:58 PM

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 07:02 PM

Let's see. Black man gets shot on subway by cop. Jurors are worried about a riot. Cop gets convicted of manslaughter.

White guy gets beat to death. Middle class family and friends stay calm. Cops get acquitted.

Tell me why I'm analyzing this wrong?

If your anaylsis is indicating that white folks ought to grown some fucking stones and tear some shit up, I concur fully.

aGameOfThrones

01-13-2014, 07:04 PM

If your anaylsis is indicating that white folks ought to grown some fucking stones and tear some shit up, I concur fully.

But then they'll get more White guilt.

Brian4Liberty

01-13-2014, 07:05 PM

Let's see. Black man gets shot on subway by cop. Jurors are worried about a riot. Cop gets convicted of manslaughter.

White guy gets beat to death. Middle class family and friends stay calm. Cops get acquitted.

Tell me why I'm analyzing this wrong?

Squeaky wheel gets the conviction?
Mob rules?
Left wing authorities in Oakland didn't rig the jury (because of political correctness or fear of riots)?

SeanTX

01-13-2014, 07:32 PM

If I heard correctly, on John and Ken's show on kfi 640 am I think they just said the the jury foreman is an attorney who once worked in the DA's office -- sounds about like what I'd expect. They said that he was working in Tony Recaucuses' (sp?) office when the charges were first announced.

Interesting that the prosecution would have no problem with him being selected for the jury -- I think it's safe to say the prosecution and defense were on the same side in this case. The only reason there were ever charges at all was to shut up complaining mundanes. You could tell Tony whatshisname was never very excited about pursuing this case against his officers.

The Just Us system wins again!

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 07:43 PM

jjdoyle

01-13-2014, 07:47 PM

So... who picked the jurors? (First hurdle in the rigged system)

Any of these jurors get interviewed by media or a free pass walk?

Did the jurors just scurry out the back door under police escort?

Probably depends on the court system. I have been a juror, and we were selected by both the prosecution and defense asking questions and excusing certain jurors based on answers.

My trial ended in a hung jury, which is what I honestly don't understand happens more. Just because you have some that agree/don't agree, doesn't mean you go with "not guilty". At least with a hung jury, they can be tried again.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 07:48 PM

WTF? :eek:

What's your problem, maggot?

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 07:50 PM

Interesting that the prosecution would have no problem with him being selected for the jury -- I think it's safe to say the prosecution and defense were on the same side in this case. The only reason there were ever charges at all was to shut up complaining mundanes. You could tell Tony whatshisname was never very excited about pursuing this case against his officers.

I'm going to agree. It also allowed him the excuse to dismiss the case against a third officer.

Philhelm

01-13-2014, 07:54 PM

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 07:55 PM

What's your problem, maggot?

Guess, I just need some re-educating.

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/173/06/173-0607120520-police_dees.jpg

GunnyFreedom

01-13-2014, 07:57 PM

They had better shit to do than deliberate in a meaningful manner. Dinner and the Boobustube awaited.

WE'VE GOT ONE THAT CAN SEE!!

http://glenbradley.net/images/share/they_liveobeytv.jpg

fr33

01-13-2014, 07:59 PM

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 07:59 PM

http://opinion.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c7de353ef0154359aab4c970c-pi

nbruno322

01-13-2014, 08:04 PM

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 08:08 PM

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/manuel_ramos_meme.jpg

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:13 PM

I am literally sick to my stomach at this.

As a father, I cannot begin to describe to you what that video did to me when I heard that man's mind resort to the only thing it could think of to make it stop, "Daddy help!". It sent shudders down my spine, and is why I have seen it only once, and cannot watch it again.

Were this my son, I would declare war on the entire system there. And I would start with their children.

Those brave officers were just taking out the trash.

I'm with you...Christian charity be damned...may these jurors and their children be ass raped by cops.

Guys, this is wrong, and I think both of you know it. This is exactly the thing that makes me sick to my stomach about neocons, liberals, and other warmongers, they don't limit their anger at injustice to the actual perpetraitors, nor do they limit the righting of those wrongs to themselves or others who voluntarily cooperate with them. Instead, they steal from everybody, sometimes enslave via the draft, and murder innocent people (They call it "collateral damage" to make themselves feel better.) We all know that's wrong. Its no more right to threaten someone's kids because of something they did. I am not guilty for the actions of my parents, whatever they may be, any more than they are guilty for mine. This is literally mind blowing North Korean logic going on here. Come on... get a grip. Killing the cops themselves, I get that. Wishing harm on the jurors themselves, I get that. Not saying its right, but I get it.

But their kids? Come on. We're each guilty for our own crimes, and only our own crimes. You know that, I know that, and the fact that Ron Paul knew that is what made him the one worthwhile thing among the den of liars that is "Washington DC".

Please, please tell me this is frustration on your guys' parts and not a literal statement of intent.

tod evans

01-13-2014, 08:15 PM

FUCK!

No surprise though.

May the whole lot of 'em rot in hell!

nbruno322

01-13-2014, 08:16 PM

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/25/64/43/5720279/3/628x471.jpg

Former Fullerton police officer Jay Cicinelli, left, and his defense attorney, Michael D. Schwartz, exchange words during Orange County district attorney Tony Rackauckas' closing argument in his trial on Tuesday, Jan. 7, 2014 in Santa Ana, Calif. Manuel Ramos and Cicinelli pleaded not guilty in the beating death of Kelly Thomas, 37, a mentally ill homeless man.

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/25/12/00/5546044/5/628x471.jpg

This photo provided by Ron Thomas shows his son, Kelly Thomas in 1997, when he was about 23 years old. It's been more than two years since Thomas died in a violent confrontation with police. One of the officers, Manuel Ramos, has been charged with second-degree murder, marking the first murder trial of a uniformed police officer in conservative Orange County's history. Jay Cicinelli, 42, has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and use of excessive force.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Officers-acquitted-in-California-homeless-death-5139516.php#photo-5546044

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:16 PM

I hope some vigilante takes the pigs out. I'm so disgusted with the government that if they force the issue that armed revolution be the only manner of recourse, I will be eating the babies of my enemies. No mercy.

Again with the threats to the children of the monsters. Seriously, you are screwed up.

Half the time I get told off for "advocating violence" because I say the people who actually do this wicked crap should die for their actions, and now we have people killing the FAMILY of the criminals, North Korea style.

Am I the only one here who actually gives a crap about the NAP? Please someone tell me that they understand the difference between serving justice to a murderer(acceptable) and to his children (not acceptable) regardless of whether the perpetraitor wears a uniform and a badge or not. Someone please tell me this simple concept is not over their heads.

When even RPF falls into this kind of collectivism, who NEEDS enemies?

invisible

01-13-2014, 08:17 PM

Tomorrow you're homeless.
Tonight it's a blast.

phill4paul

01-13-2014, 08:18 PM

Please, please tell me this is frustration on your guys' parts and not a literal statement of intent.

A plague on them and thier house unto the tenth generation.

tod evans

01-13-2014, 08:19 PM

FF,

I don't abide by the NAP because I realize it's not realistic..

These cops, the DA and every other government flunkie involved in this guys death deserves what they get, and I fully support them getting worse than they gave.

Red Green

01-13-2014, 08:22 PM

If your anaylsis is indicating that white folks ought to grown some fucking stones and tear some shit up, I concur fully.

Yeah, but make sure they tear the right shit up. Looting a corner store operated by some nice Koran folks is not the right target. City hall, the pig shop, maybe a few pig's houses, yeah.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 08:24 PM

Of course it's not a literal statement of intent.

That would be a felony and highly illegal.

Get out kid, while you can...

Guys, this is wrong, and I think both of you know it. This is exactly the thing that makes me sick to my stomach about neocons, liberals, and other warmongers, they don't limit their anger at injustice to the actual perpetraitors, nor do they limit the righting of those wrongs to themselves or others who voluntarily cooperate with them. Instead, they steal from everybody, sometimes enslave via the draft, and murder innocent people (They call it "collateral damage" to make themselves feel better.) We all know that's wrong. Its no more right to threaten someone's kids because of something they did. I am not guilty for the actions of my parents, whatever they may be, any more than they are guilty for mine. This is literally mind blowing North Korean logic going on here. Come on... get a grip. Killing the cops themselves, I get that. Wishing harm on the jurors themselves, I get that. Not saying its right, but I get it.

But their kids? Come on. We're each guilty for our own crimes, and only our own crimes. You know that, I know that, and the fact that Ron Paul knew that is what made him the one worthwhile thing among the den of liars that is "Washington DC".

Please, please tell me this is frustration on your guys' parts and not a literal statement of intent.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 08:27 PM

The excellent Will Grigg has a write up on this at Lew Rockwell. Link below (caution graphic content).

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/kelly-thomas-verdict-support-your-local-police-uber-alles/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

Rather than upholding the law, the jury supported “law enforcement” — thereby fulfilling what the Support Your Local Police Committee describes as a moral obligation of citizens:

“The local police are not your enemy. Your committee is not here to attack them, blame them for violating the Constitution or your civil liberties…. We urge all responsible citizens in this community to…[s]upport our local police in the performance of their duties [and] oppose all harassment or interference with law enforcement personnel as they carry out their assigned tasks…. [We must accept] our responsibilities to our local police, to defend them against unjust attacks, make them proud and secure in their vital profession, and to offer them our support in word and deed wherever possible.”

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:33 PM

Of course it's not a literal statement of intent.

That would be a felony and highly illegal.

That you appeal to "the law" in this case, rather than basic Christian morality, shows me that you have a problem. Come on, you know that saying you would kill someone's children because of a crime they committed is immoral. You've said you're a Christian. Do you think God would approve of murdering an innocent person? Incidentally, this is the same doggone problem I have with red-state fascist "Christians"... only I know you are much more awake than they are and should know better.

Killing a person who is not guilty of an act of aggression is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS.

Get out kid, while you can..

Where? Why? You think this tyranny isn't coming to the entire world? Because I can tell you if we don't win the fight right here, we're going to lose the entire world.

Intoxiklown

01-13-2014, 08:36 PM

Guys, this is wrong, and I think both of you know it. This is exactly the thing that makes me sick to my stomach about neocons, liberals, and other warmongers, they don't limit their anger at injustice to the actual perpetraitors, nor do they limit the righting of those wrongs to themselves or others who voluntarily cooperate with them. Instead, they steal from everybody, sometimes enslave via the draft, and murder innocent people (They call it "collateral damage" to make themselves feel better.) We all know that's wrong. Its no more right to threaten someone's kids because of something they did. I am not guilty for the actions of my parents, whatever they may be, any more than they are guilty for mine. This is literally mind blowing North Korean logic going on here. Come on... get a grip. Killing the cops themselves, I get that. Wishing harm on the jurors themselves, I get that. Not saying its right, but I get it.

But their kids? Come on. We're each guilty for our own crimes, and only our own crimes. You know that, I know that, and the fact that Ron Paul knew that is what made him the one worthwhile thing among the den of liars that is "Washington DC".

Please, please tell me this is frustration on your guys' parts and not a literal statement of intent.

Intent? Of course not. You misunderstand. I said, "Were this my son....."

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:38 PM

Intent? Of course not. You misunderstand. I said, "Were this my son....."

No, I know. Let me rephrase... If this was your son, or if this happens to your son in the future, would you actually kill the officer's children?

The officers themselves, I get that. They're murderers, and as per Genesis 9:6, they deserve to die. But their kids? The kids didn't commit a crime.

GunnyFreedom

01-13-2014, 08:40 PM

That you appeal to "the law" in this case, rather than basic Christian morality, shows me that you have a problem.

You do realize, I am sure, that just because that's the explanation he chose to post on a subforum on RPF's, does not necessarily mean that is his only reason, or even his primary reason.

Come on, you know that saying you would kill someone's children because of a crime they committed is immoral. You've said you're a Christian. Do you think God would approve of murdering an innocent person? Incidentally, this is the same doggone problem I have with red-state fascist "Christians"... only I know you are much more awake than they are and should know better.

Killing a person who is not guilty of an act of aggression is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS.

Where? Why? You think this tyranny isn't coming to the entire world? Because I can tell you if we don't win the fight right here, we're going to lose the entire world.

Philhelm

01-13-2014, 08:41 PM

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:42 PM

FF,

I don't abide by the NAP because I realize it's not realistic..

Do you actually understand what the NAP is? How is it not realistic?

These cops, the DA and every other government flunkie involved in this guys death deserves what they get, and I fully support them getting worse than they gave.

OK... but their kids. That ain't right.

You might as well say that I deserve to die because both of my grandparents "Served" in the US navy.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 08:44 PM

You do realize, I am sure, that just because that's the explanation he chose to post on a subforum on RPF's, does not necessarily mean that is his only reason, or even his primary reason.

Gunny: I'm smart. I can read through this kind of double-speak, because I do the same freaking thing. The only difference being, I don't use it to hint at immoral activities.

Then again, I could be wrong.

Your God killed almost the entire human population with a flood, including children.

God is God, he has the right to do that. You, AF, me, and the rest of us here do not.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 08:49 PM

FF how many times have you here on these forums advocated killing people?

Oh what, you have some moral high ground you're standing on?

jmdrake

01-13-2014, 08:51 PM

dannno

01-13-2014, 08:53 PM

FF how many times have you here on these forums advocated killing people?

Oh what, you have some moral high ground you're standing on?

WTF are u talking about?

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 08:57 PM

WTF are u talking about?

im talking about Freedom Fanatic who is preaching about morality and picking apart the posts of others, after he repeatedly cries for violence against others on other threads.

Czolgosz

01-13-2014, 08:59 PM

lol @ humanity.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 09:07 PM

Don't preach to me, son...I am not in the mood.

That you appeal to "the law" in this case, rather than basic Christian morality, shows me that you have a problem. Come on, you know that saying you would kill someone's children because of a crime they committed is immoral. You've said you're a Christian. Do you think God would approve of murdering an innocent person? Incidentally, this is the same doggone problem I have with red-state fascist "Christians"... only I know you are much more awake than they are and should know better.

Killing a person who is not guilty of an act of aggression is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS.

Where? Why? You think this tyranny isn't coming to the entire world? Because I can tell you if we don't win the fight right here, we're going to lose the entire world.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:11 PM

FF how many times have you here on these forums advocated killing people?

Oh what, you have some moral high ground you're standing on?

Listen to me very, very clearly. I am no pacifist. Killing in self-defense, or as punishment for murder, is not immoral. Heck, killing the thug overseers for committing ANY act of aggression with the power of "the state" backing them up. Wearing a uniform, or declaring your disgusting actions "legal" is not an excuse, in fact, its even more reason you should die in my mind, at least the common murderer doesn't threaten you with violence from the grave if you protect yourself.

Those who do NOT commit acts of aggression against their fellow men is a different story.

I mean, you might as well say "You're such a hypocrite for condemning Bush's war in Iraq, after all, you agreed with George Washington's revolt against the British."

C'mon people, God gave you brains, freaking use them.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:13 PM

im talking about Freedom Fanatic who is preaching about morality and picking apart the posts of others, after he repeatedly cries for violence against others on other threads.

No, you're being an idiot who doesn't know how to use logic and reason.

What is the difference between the kind of killing I've advocated, and this? Think about it. Use your brain. Your IQ is higher than 5. Show it to us.

Don't preach to me, son...I am not in the mood.

Well, I'm not in the mood to be preached at by sheep who don't understand the distinction between defensive killing and offensive killing (see above) but you're literally advocating the very thing that makes our enemies so evil here. How would you feel if you happened to be born in the household of a cop? Would you just admit to deserving to die because of what your parents do?

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:17 PM

'Tis why many cheered for Christopher Dorner.

I have no problem with "vigilante justice" against the scum of the earth that actually murdered Kelly Thomas. Its the people who happen to have the misfortune of being related to those people who are being wrongly attacked here, simply for being related to them, hence the problem.

It bugs me so much because its the very same thing that makes me so angry at the neocons and liberals. It makes me sad to see people here falling for this kind of collectivist logic. Especially someone like AF, who I know to be one of the best when it comes to advocating for freedom and libertarian principles. And his response really reminds me of those who stick their fingers in their ears and say "I don't want to hear it" when you expose the morality they support, except I know AF knows better. I am absolutely certain he knows I'm right about this too.

Oh well... stand for principle, even if nobody else will stand with you.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 09:17 PM

Well, I'm not in the mood to be preached at by sheep who don't understand the distinction between defensive killing and offensive killing (see above) but you're literally advocating the very thing that makes our enemies so evil here. How would you feel if you happened to be born in the household of a cop? Would you just admit to deserving to die because of what your parents do?

Well, righteous fury is out...

ETA - nvm...yeah, you're right...belay all my last.

Disregard.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 09:19 PM

oh lord he's bringing out the big guns. name calling

you need a hobby. other than internet preaching/hate mongering.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:19 PM

Well, righteous fury is out...

ETA - nvm...yeah, you're right...belay all my last.

Disregard.

I knew you'd admit to it. Thank you:)

tod evans

01-13-2014, 09:21 PM

Do you actually understand what the NAP is? How is it not realistic?

OK... but their kids. That ain't right.

You might as well say that I deserve to die because both of my grandparents "Served" in the US navy.

Why do you want to talk to me about kids?

Slow down and relax a bit, re-read.....

fr33

01-13-2014, 09:23 PM

FF has littered this thread with semantic BS even though he calls for executions more often than the average RPF member.

Kelly Thomas was the son a former deputy. His death awoke that former deputy to what is possible at the hands of his comrades. Apparently somebody has got to die at the hands of cops and better it be those in the households that approve of such killings than those that don't. Let the reality of their bread and honey smack them in the face for all I care. I hope for an asteroid to obliterate Washington DC even though lowly maids and servants also dwell there.

purplechoe

01-13-2014, 09:23 PM

Last time I was on a jury I was the foreman, I would have set the rest of that jury straight...

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 09:25 PM

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:30 PM

Why do you want to talk to me about kids?

Slow down and relax a bit, re-read.....

Because when you said "I don't believe in the NAP" you were responding to a post where I was criticizing someone for advocating the killing of the children of the murderers in blue. Read the context, please.

If there were any such thing as "GOOD COPS" the entire Fullerton force would resign at 0800 Tuesday.

I'm not saying there is such thing as a good cop (That very much depends on your definition of "good cop" in my mind) but I don't see how the Fullerton force not resigning would have anything to do with any cops outside of Fullerton.

FF has littered this thread with semantic BS even though he calls for executions more often than the average RPF member.

In other words, at least some posters here are just as dumb as the outsiders we deride, yet have less of an excuse by virtue of posting here, and they don't understand the difference between justice (executing a man who deserves it) and murder (killing an innocent person).

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:31 PM

oh lord he's bringing out the big guns. name calling

you need a hobby. other than internet preaching/hate mongering.

You need a hobby other than posting things that you know are total crap because you just got schooled in logic.

I don't hate you, BTW. I just think you're really, really stupid.

kcchiefs6465

01-13-2014, 09:34 PM

If there were any such thing as "GOOD COPS" the entire Fullerton force would resign at 0800 Tuesday.
Mark my goddamn words, not a police officer in this country will offer a word of condemnation.

Seriously. For those who think this may be exaggeration or personal bias, bet.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 09:35 PM

You need a hobby other than posting things that you know are total crap because you just got schooled in logic.

I don't hate you, BTW. I just think you're really, really stupid.

sorry babe, im already taken.

(I know flirting when I see it)

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 09:38 PM

lol @ humanity.

Guess that's about all that is permitted.

LOL

Origanalist

01-13-2014, 09:43 PM

Hey FF, this aint about you, or your fucking sensibilities.

LibertyEagle

01-13-2014, 09:49 PM

Voir dire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:50 PM

sorry babe, im already taken.

(I know flirting when I see it)

I didn't even know you were a woman, nor did I care. Idiocy knows no gender.

Hey FF, this aint about you, or your fucking sensibilities.

Yeah, I guess the NAP is just "my fucking sensibilites" as you say.

What is this movement about again, exactly?

@kcchiefs- I bet the police officer that I know would condemn it. I'd be very shocked if he did not.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 09:55 PM

I didn't even know you were a woman, nor did I care. Idiocy knows no gender.

.

Now that's just plain sexist.

all us womenfolk know that MEN are superior, and only idiotic because they choose to be.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 09:57 PM

Now that's just plain sexist.

How?

all us womenfolk know that MEN are superior, and only idiotic because they choose to be.

I said no such thing. I said "idiocy knows no gender." Most women are stupid. Most men are stupid. Most PEOPLE are stupid.

Wake up, use some basic logic for a change, and stop confusing the guilty with the innocent.

Anti Federalist

01-13-2014, 09:58 PM

Voir dire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voir_dire

Really not much more to it than that.

And, in reading up on the town and county, seems like a west coast version of New Jersey Copland.

So, not surprising at all.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 10:00 PM

How?

I said no such thing. I said "idiocy knows no gender." Most women are stupid. Most men are stupid. Most PEOPLE are stupid.

Wake up, use some basic logic for a change, and stop confusing the guilty with the innocent.

You are right. I must be dreaming.

I bet you feel all big and stuff for calling me out. I bet you are big and stuff.

WM_in_MO

01-13-2014, 10:06 PM

I also wish bad things upon all those involved in the murder and those who let them walk free.

kcchiefs6465

01-13-2014, 10:09 PM

@kcchiefs- I bet the police officer that I know would condemn it. I'd be very shocked if he did not.
Right.

Well the letter would go viral so why don't you convince them to get on that.

Where's the speeches? They might whisper disapproval in hope that their actions don't get out but frankly they're one and the same. And no matter even that, not a goddamned single one of them will be on camera for that interview. Some retired may offer pittances that it wasn't like that back then, I wasn't born back then but will tell you the tales are bullshit. Simply study history and see.

I hope to see the person you know publicly disavow the acquittal of these killers.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 10:11 PM

Right.

Well the letter would go viral so why don't you convince them to get on that.

Where's the speeches? They might whisper disapproval in hope that their actions don't get out but frankly they're one and the same. And no matter even that, not a goddamned single one of them will be on camera for that interview. Some retired may offer pittances that it wasn't like that back then, I wasn't born back then but will tell you the tales are bullshit. Simply study history and see.

I hope to see the person you know publicly disavow the acquittal of these killers.

If I get a chance, I'll bring it up to him.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 10:11 PM

You are right. I must be dreaming.

I bet you feel all big and stuff for calling me out. I bet you are big and stuff.

No, I'm just glad I have a brain that's functional. That's rare in today's world.

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 10:22 PM

No, I'm just glad I have a brain that's functional. That's rare in today's world.

Fully functioning alright. I mean, damn that thing is firing on all cylinders.

coastie

01-13-2014, 10:26 PM

Fully functioning alright. I mean, damn that thing is firing on all cylinders.

Jesus Christ, will the two of you go get a room, or take it to PM????

asurfaholic

01-13-2014, 10:30 PM

Jesus Christ, will the two of you go get a room, or take it to PM????

I was just leaving.

As a stupid woman, I am going to sleep.

JK/SEA

01-13-2014, 10:30 PM

I've got a few copies of a letter i wrote expressing my outage.

Anybody want one?

coastie

01-13-2014, 10:32 PM

I was just leaving.

As a stupid woman, I am going to sleep.

Sleep tight. And no, I'm not being snarky, I mean it.

coastie

01-13-2014, 10:34 PM

I've got a few copies of a letter i wrote expressing my outage.

Anybody want one?

Yes please, the quicker I can report you, the better I'll sleep tonight.

/s

Origanalist

01-13-2014, 10:37 PM

I've got a few copies of a letter i wrote expressing my outage.

Anybody want one?

http://www.thethingswesay.com/img/292.jpg

Origanalist

01-13-2014, 10:38 PM

I was just leaving.

As a stupid woman, I am going to sleep.

So you're leaving us with the drama queen? Thanks a lot.

Feeding the Abscess

01-13-2014, 11:01 PM

That you appeal to "the law" in this case, rather than basic Christian morality, shows me that you have a problem. Come on, you know that saying you would kill someone's children because of a crime they committed is immoral. You've said you're a Christian. Do you think God would approve of murdering an innocent person? Incidentally, this is the same doggone problem I have with red-state fascist "Christians"... only I know you are much more awake than they are and should know better.

Killing a person who is not guilty of an act of aggression is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS.

Where? Why? You think this tyranny isn't coming to the entire world? Because I can tell you if we don't win the fight right here, we're going to lose the entire world.

God commanded the slaughter of entire civilizations.

Saul is seen as a villainous being because he didn't kill enough.

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

pcosmar

01-13-2014, 11:09 PM

Police officers not guilty in Kelly Thomas beating death

Yes, they are guilty. They are just getting away with it.

There is a final judge though.

Snew

01-13-2014, 11:11 PM

Yes, they are guilty. They are just getting away with it.

There is a final judge though.

This x 1000

fr33

01-13-2014, 11:12 PM

In other words, at least some posters here are just as dumb as the outsiders we deride, yet have less of an excuse by virtue of posting here, and they don't understand the difference between justice (executing a man who deserves it) and murder (killing an innocent person).

F you for what you've turned this thread into. You talk about executing govt agents more often than anyone else here. How do you think that could come to fruition? Bloody revolution (otherwise known as war). None of us want it. Some of us see it as inevitable. You so casually call for the executions of people and think it magically happens without the people the culprits hide behind suffering. As if people will magically grant you your wish to kill them. If this topic and your new-found outrage over reality leads to less calls from you for executions and a reality-check over what you so casually talk about routinely, then this topic is a win.

Christian Liberty

01-13-2014, 11:13 PM

God commanded the slaughter of entire civilizations.

Saul is seen as a villainous being because he didn't kill enough.

Again, this goes back to divine command and God having ownership rights over human life... which frankly has little to do with the discussion at hand.

Feeding the Abscess

01-13-2014, 11:16 PM

Again, this goes back to divine command and God having ownership rights over human life... which frankly has little to do with the discussion at hand.

If the NAP isn't universal then it is entirely useless.

pcosmar

01-13-2014, 11:20 PM

If the NAP isn't universal then it is entirely useless.

No,, it is a principle.

And as just demonstrated,, some people have no principle.

Feeding the Abscess

01-13-2014, 11:23 PM

No,, it is a principle.

And as just demonstrated,, some people have no principle.

A principle can be violated, but it still holds true. Just as a person hasn't had their right to their person taken away when they are killed; the principle still is in play, which is why it is grievous when someone violates that right, and why justice is needed, and retribution acceptable.

dillo

01-14-2014, 12:23 AM

I kind of wish Dorner wouldve dissapeared and became batman

jmdrake

01-14-2014, 02:05 AM

For the record AF didn't advocate killing anyone's kids. He advocating wishing that some police officers (he is not one) do to the children of those who were willing to let these police officers off the hook so that those people would realize that it is not okay to let police officers off the hook for what was essentially and gang/thug beatdown of an innocent man. It would be like saying you wish the TSA groped the kids of congressmen who still support the unbridled powers of the TSA so that they would see how other people feel. It's not the same as a Chris Dorner "I want to take a rifle and go after their kids" mentality, although some of the thread comments have bordered on that. The bottom line is, something is really messed up about someone who could watch the film and think there was some "reasonable doubt" about what happened. I'm all for a defense attorney offering a vigorous defense of his client. I have no problem with the defense team doing what they did. They got paid well to do that. I can't for the life of me understand why a jury would fall for that crap. That said, I hope the parents of Kelly Thomas become crusaders against police brutality and government abuse in general. Someone should send his father an "oathkeepers" application.

mrsat_98

01-14-2014, 06:09 AM

tod evans

01-14-2014, 06:34 AM

Because when you said "I don't believe in the NAP" you were responding to a post where I was criticizing someone for advocating the killing of the children of the murderers in blue. Read the context, please.

If the NAP isn't universal then it is entirely useless.

No,, it is a principle.

And as just demonstrated,, some people have no principle.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it for FF,

The NAP is a good and noble endeavor but I've lived too long and seen too much to believe it's practical.

If the actions of the cops in this matter and the justification expressed in the courtroom don't convince you there's noting I can say.

These people will not stop until they're stopped.

Suzanimal

01-14-2014, 06:49 AM

:eek:

I don't why I still find this shit shocking. Just no words...:(

http://i.imgur.com/uuZhMz3.jpg

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 07:47 AM

:eek:

I don't why I still find this shit shocking. Just no words...:(

http://i.imgur.com/uuZhMz3.jpg

Hey, he had it coming.

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mannys-Boo-boo.jpg

Intoxiklown

01-14-2014, 07:50 AM

No, I know. Let me rephrase... If this was your son, or if this happens to your son in the future, would you actually kill the officer's children?

The officers themselves, I get that. They're murderers, and as per Genesis 9:6, they deserve to die. But their kids? The kids didn't commit a crime.

I honestly don't know what I'd do if it were my son. I do know that reason and compassion are out the window, and my life would revolve around one goal. But sometimes, and I hate to say or admit this, but the only way to truly stop evil is to visit that same evil back upon them.

pcosmar

01-14-2014, 08:29 AM

I kind of wish Dorner wouldve dissapeared and became batman

I kinda wish the Myth of Dorner was real.

The guy was just another victim.

WM_in_MO

01-14-2014, 09:24 AM

For every encouraging comment in this article:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/verdict-reached-calif-police-homeless-death-21520031

There is a bootlicker on Policeone.com:
http://onebit.us/x/i/MdRwOB2vjw.png

klamath

01-14-2014, 09:54 AM

Again with the threats to the children of the monsters. Seriously, you are screwed up.

Half the time I get told off for "advocating violence" because I say the people who actually do this wicked crap should die for their actions, and now we have people killing the FAMILY of the criminals, North Korea style.

Am I the only one here who actually gives a crap about the NAP? Please someone tell me that they understand the difference between serving justice to a murderer(acceptable) and to his children (not acceptable) regardless of whether the perpetraitor wears a uniform and a badge or not. Someone please tell me this simple concept is not over their heads.

When even RPF falls into this kind of collectivism, who NEEDS enemies?And I hope you get why I am so against revolution. You can't control the hate and revenge against those that are agressers. The blood lust is turned loose and the killing sphere broadens and broadens as more people get into it with their own axes to grind. It is why I DON"T identify with RPFs and haven't for 3 years when I saw this before. In that case it was cold blood calulating the death of innocent children.

klamath

01-14-2014, 09:57 AM

I honestly don't know what I'd do if it were my son. I do know that reason and compassion are out the window, and my life would revolve around one goal. But sometimes, and I hate to say or admit this, but the only way to truly stop evil is to visit that same evil back upon them. It doesn't truely stop it it broadens it.

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 09:57 AM

And I hope you get why I am so against revolution. You can't control the hate and revenge against those that are agressers. The blood lust is turned loose and the killing sphere broadens and broadens as more people get into it with their own axes to grind. It is why I DON"T identify with RPFs and haven't for 3 years when I saw this before. In that case it was cold blood calulating the death of innocent children.

So you're a anti-RPF RPF member?

cajuncocoa

01-14-2014, 10:05 AM

Killing the bad guys and wishing bad things on their families just turns us into what we hate the most about those bad guys. Their judgment will come....it is not of this world.

klamath

01-14-2014, 10:09 AM

So you're a anti-RPF RPF member?Yes in that I will not call them my people any more that I call democrats, republicans, neocons, soldiers etc etc. They are just humans no better no worse. At one time I did consider the member as a group kindred spirits but that came to a screeching halt 3 years ago.

kathy88

01-14-2014, 10:27 AM

This is a great thread with the exception of FFs incessant need to judge everyone. I'm kinda in the I wish the jurors all a painful slow death side. And if one of their children (adult) was beaten to death by a cop? Karma.

aGameOfThrones

01-14-2014, 10:33 AM

"I shall bring justice to the U.S. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. And some will lose more than the tips off their fingers, I promise you. They have made my country bleed, and I do not forget that."

Anti Federalist

01-14-2014, 10:47 AM

So you're a anti-RPF RPF member?

Yes, he is, and I was the guilty party then as well.

Of course, this reasoning is why we're destined to end up slaves or dead.

Hemmed up by law, "principles" that our oppressors do not give two shits about, and false morality in the face of criminal lunatics, we're so hamstrung by contradictions that all we do is mumble and whine.

Our oppressors are well aware of how impotent we are.

jmdrake pointed this out quite neatly.

And here we sit.

HOLLYWOOD

01-14-2014, 10:47 AM

American Idol! 'Mercia Fuck Yeah!

God Bless; FOX NEWS-CORP, ABC, CBS, NBC-MSNBC, PBS, npr, Time-Warner, VIACOM, GE, DISNEY

"The U.S. Constitution and the 4th Amendment, does not state Police Officers need to use the least intrusive method of force when making an arrest..." that from your American "Infotainment" Media on TV. If you had any doubts Fascist Corporate media is for the people, just remember that line from your TV boxes.

Only a handful of police officers nationwide have been charged with murder for actions taken while on duty, and convictions in those cases are rare, said Lawrence Rosenthal, a law professor at Chapman University School of Law and a former federal prosecutor.

Unless the prosecution can prove the officers falsified reports or covered up evidence, jurors are usually willing to acquit, he said.

"Police officers are very unusual kinds of defendants because ... they are seen as acting not in their own interests but acting to protect the public at large, the very people sitting on their jury," Rosenthal said.

Jurors are willing to forgive lapses in judgment rather than put an officer "in the cage with the same people that officer has spent his life arresting," he said.

GunnyFreedom

01-14-2014, 11:17 AM

American Idol! 'Mercia Fuck Yeah!

God Bless; FOX NEWS-CORP, ABC, CBS, NBC-MSNBC, PBS, npr, Time-Warner, VIACOM, GE, DISNEY

"The U.S. Constitution and the 4th Amendment, does not state Police Officers need to use the least intrusive method of force when making an arrest..." that from your American "Infotainment" Media on TV. If you had any doubts Fascist Corporate media is for the people, just remember that line from your TV boxes.

The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.” (Benjamin Franklin)

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 11:44 AM

F you for what you've turned this thread into. You talk about executing govt agents more often than anyone else here. How do you think that could come to fruition? Bloody revolution (otherwise known as war). None of us want it. Some of us see it as inevitable. You so casually call for the executions of people and think it magically happens without the people the culprits hide behind suffering. As if people will magically grant you your wish to kill them. If this topic and your new-found outrage over reality leads to less calls from you for executions and a reality-check over what you so casually talk about routinely, then this topic is a win.

Its pretty much inevitable. And its true that sometimes you will accidentally kill someone that you don't intend to kill. But to DELIBERATELY go after the innocent is not OK.

If the NAP isn't universal then it is entirely useless.

I don't believe the NAP applies to God. If that makes me not a libertarian, so be it. I don't really care because I identify as Christian first.

I've said this before but I'll repeat it for FF,

The NAP is a good and noble endeavor but I've lived too long and seen too much to believe it's practical.

If the actions of the cops in this matter and the justification expressed in the courtroom don't convince you there's noting I can say.

These people will not stop until they're stopped.

Retaliating against aggressors is not a violation of the NAP. Hence why I told you I don't think you know what the NAP is.

I honestly don't know what I'd do if it were my son. I do know that reason and compassion are out the window, and my life would revolve around one goal. But sometimes, and I hate to say or admit this, but the only way to truly stop evil is to visit that same evil back upon them.

I don't really know either, I don't have a son BTW. But if it was one of my family members, I think I'd want to kill the people who actually did the evil, and not their kids.

And I hope you get why I am so against revolution. You can't control the hate and revenge against those that are agressers. The blood lust is turned loose and the killing sphere broadens and broadens as more people get into it with their own axes to grind. It is why I DON"T identify with RPFs and haven't for 3 years when I saw this before. In that case it was cold blood calulating the death of innocent children.

You're probably right that you can't. But if that's the case, we are truly screwed. We have to learn how to at least try, otherwise we're screwed.

I don't think letting them continue to execute their evil is the answer, nor do I think politics is the answer.

asurfaholic

01-14-2014, 11:51 AM

Killing the bad guys and wishing bad things on their families just turns us into what we hate the most about those bad guys. Their judgment will come....it is not of this world.

Qft

In sure the overlords would very much love for someone to take violence against a police or his family. The case would be made for a more aggressive police state and would bond those same gang members closer.

Remember the Boston bombing? The campus police officer collier, was shot. Immediately afterwards the media claimed it was by the bombing suspect. That particular act garnered the support of cops everywhere. I read that hundreds of cops traveled down to his memorial. Lew Rockwell did an interview with somebody on his podcast about this a little while back. Interesting stuff. I think officer collier was assassinated solely for the purpose of generating that out flowing of "police brotherhood". There is no evidence that the brothers killed him.

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:29 PM

That's what I get for praying...

yeah, it always works

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:31 PM

Hey, he had it coming.

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mannys-Boo-boo.jpg

This pic, much like the George Zimmerman wound photo, somehow proves that you're allowed to kill somebody.

phill4paul

01-14-2014, 12:33 PM

This pic, much like the George Zimmerman wound photo, somehow proves that you're allowed to kill somebody.

Let's stay on point.

Re-direct: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?441365-Police-officers-not-guilty-in-Kelly-Thomas-beating-death&p=5374334#post5374334

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 12:36 PM

This pic, much like the George Zimmerman wound photo, somehow proves that you're allowed to kill somebody.

Wut?

coastie

01-14-2014, 12:37 PM

This pic, much like the George Zimmerman wound photo, somehow proves that you're allowed to kill somebody.

You mean these ones?
http://i41.tinypic.com/2v1xdvm.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ljnvxc.png
The jury thought they were sufficient enough, and verify his version of events.

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:41 PM

You mean these ones?
http://i41.tinypic.com/2v1xdvm.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ljnvxc.png
The jury thought they were sufficient enough, and verify his version of events.

Yes, if somebody wounds your head and you bleed, you're justified to kill him.

I take it the same benefit was given to this officer, that if you have a scratch and bleeding, which in this case, is easy to fake, you're justified to beat somebody unconscious and let him choke on his own blood.

coastie

01-14-2014, 12:44 PM

Yes, if somebody wounds your head and you bleed, you're justified to kill him.

............

Oh, is that what happened? I must've been watching a different trial.

:rolleyes:

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 12:50 PM

Your God killed almost the entire human population with a flood, including children.

From your attitude, though, am I correct in drawing the conclusion that you don't really believe that?

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:50 PM

Oh, is that what happened? I must've been watching a different trial.

:rolleyes:
What did I miss? Did Trayvon shoot him? Do the pictures say "My life is in danger even though this guy has no gun"?

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:51 PM

From your attitude, though, am I correct in drawing the conclusion that you don't really believe that?

It doesn't matter what HE believes, but if anybody does believe it, that's what matters.

asurfaholic

01-14-2014, 12:53 PM

What did I miss? Did Trayvon shoot him? Do the pictures say "My life is in danger even though this guy has no gun"?

Jeez, this has potential to be more ridiculous than FF.

That's saying alot.

Wrong thread dude

coastie

01-14-2014, 12:53 PM

What did I miss? Did Trayvon shoot him? Do the pictures say "My life is in danger even though this guy has no gun"?

You missed that it was ESTABLISHED FACT that Martin was on top of him, saying he was "going to die tonight", pounding his head onto concrete...as is obvious by the pictures.

Enough derailing already, these instances aren't even REMOTELY related, no matter how hard you train in mental gymnastics.

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 12:54 PM

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 12:56 PM

Jeez, this has potential to be more ridiculous than FF.

That's saying alot.

Wrong thread dude

I think they're reproducing.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 12:58 PM

I didn't even know you were a woman, nor did I care. Idiocy knows no gender.

Yeah, I guess the NAP is just "my fucking sensibilites" as you say.

What is this movement about again, exactly?

@kcchiefs- I bet the police officer that I know would condemn it. I'd be very shocked if he did not.

I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding. The problem here is not really overreaction as I see it. The problem is picking apart people's enraged comments and taking them seriously, then calling them out for it.

Can't we just let people be enraged in their own way? This is a very emotional subject, and we need not resort to infighting over petty details. We know that we're not going to change anyone's attitude here, and perhaps it's best we don't try. Nobody's going to go out and kill any police officer's family members. I think we can safely assume that without letting it weigh on our consciences that we didn't stop it by flinging accusations of impure thought on a message board.

PRB

01-14-2014, 12:59 PM

You missed that it was ESTABLISHED FACT that Martin was on top of him, saying he was "going to die tonight", pounding his head onto concrete...as is obvious by the pictures.

Enough derailing already, these instances aren't even REMOTELY related, no matter how hard you train in mental gymnastics.

They're related in that neither dead person had a gun, no matter what he did or said.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:00 PM

Now that's just plain sexist.

all us womenfolk know that MEN are superior, and only idiotic because they choose to be.

Actually, that comment was inherently anti-sexist. Idiocy knows no gender. That means it does NOT matter whether you are a man or a woman, capiche?

GunnyFreedom

01-14-2014, 01:01 PM

I think they're reproducing.

They said this would lead to Idiocracy.

tod evans

01-14-2014, 01:01 PM

These people will not stop until they're stopped.

Retaliating against aggressors is not a violation of the NAP. Hence why I told you I don't think you know what the NAP is.

Retaliating is vengeance it has nothing to do with stopping these people.

Punishing someone is different than stopping them before they act.

Do you know where 4 cops live in your county?

Do you know where they go to church?

Where their kids go to school?

A responsible member of a community knows these things.

Knowledge is one way of preventing this type of behavior, when cops (and their families) are vulnerable to the community this type of behavior is far less frequent.

coastie

01-14-2014, 01:03 PM

Suzanimal

01-14-2014, 01:06 PM

The full video, if it's already posted my apologies. I couldn't watch the whole thing, it doesn't take long to figure out what's going down.

http://www.latimes.com/videogallery/69846618/News/Full-un-edited-video-presented-in-Kelly-Thomas-murder-trial

I could only watch it to 3:35, absolutely heartbreaking...how on earth could anyone call that anything but murder?

Philhelm

01-14-2014, 01:08 PM

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 01:09 PM

I could only watch it to 3:35, absolutely heartbreaking...how on earth could anyone call that anything but murder?

Jury of their peers......//

asurfaholic

01-14-2014, 01:10 PM

Actually, that comment was inherently anti-sexist. Idiocy knows no gender. That means it does NOT matter whether you are a man or a woman, capiche?

Day late, dollar short.

I was trolling him, mostly to entertain myself. Just seeing what other off the wall shit i could get him to post.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:14 PM

If the NAP isn't universal then it is entirely useless.

This is one of the most ignorant statements from an atheist I've ever heard. "Universal" means it applies to all humans. God is the creator of humans, but he is not mortal like us. Our judgment is imperfect, but His is.

I say this not even as a strong believer, but I hate it when atheists make ignorant comments like this one to slander God's name. In this scenario, you are holding the NAP, essentially, as God. I would like to point out that, without an absolute authority that holds all men in check, moral values are subjective and the NAP is still entirely useless. You can believe in the NAP if you want, but only when you have a final authority can you say the NAP should apply to everyone without making yourself the final authority, which we all agree none of us can be.

I really should know how futile it is to try to explain this to you. No atheist ever gets it. Just keep in mind, as I can see below this post, pcosmar points out that "some people have no principle." You can say that is wrong, but you would only be objectively right in saying that if you appointed yourself as an absolute moral authority.

God, who, in the Christian religion, is perfect, is the only One who can serve as an absolute moral authority, for none of us are perfect. So, in summary, the NAP can't be held up as an objective good unless you have an absolute moral authority to judge it as such. God has judged it as such and has decreed that we should all live by it.

Doubtless, you're going to now compare God to a monarch, which is just fucked up stupid, but maybe you weren't. I guess it doesn't matter anyway.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:22 PM

I've said this before but I'll repeat it for FF,

The NAP is a good and noble endeavor but I've lived too long and seen too much to believe it's practical.

If the actions of the cops in this matter and the justification expressed in the courtroom don't convince you there's noting I can say.

These people will not stop until they're stopped.

It's not a question of practicality. It's a question of should. Should you act this way or that way? I think if you took the time to actually learn what the NAP was, then you would agree that you, personally, should act that way. You may not expect others to act that way, but that doesn't call into question whether the whole principle is right or not.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:31 PM

It doesn't matter what HE believes, but if anybody does believe it, that's what matters.

No, he states it as if he is saying it happened, and yet he doesn't actually believe it happened. So, then how can he speak from a believer's point of view and not actually be one? You have to understand the whole idea of morality behind the Bible before you can criticize it. He clearly doesn't understand because he is speaking from the point of view of a believer and criticizing it from the point of view of a non-believer. That means he is measuring a whole belief system against his own subjective beliefs while failing to realize that there is a reason that the belief system he is criticizing has an objective moral authority known as God rather than a subjective moral authority by which to judge all others. In this system, God, being the moral authority, can make judgment calls without criticism since the existence of the entire creation is owed to Him.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:32 PM

What did I miss? Did Trayvon shoot him? Do the pictures say "My life is in danger even though this guy has no gun"?

It is possible to have your life threatened without a gun.

PRB

01-14-2014, 01:34 PM

No, he states it as if he is saying it happened, and yet he doesn't actually believe it happened. So, then how can he speak from a believer's point of view and not actually be one? You have to understand the whole idea of morality behind the Bible before you can criticize it. He clearly doesn't understand because he is speaking from the point of view of a believer and criticizing it from the point of view of a non-believer. That means he is measuring a whole belief system against his own subjective beliefs while failing to realize that there is a reason that the belief system he is criticizing has an objective moral authority known as God rather than a subjective moral authority by which to judge all others. In this system, God, being the moral authority, can make judgment calls without criticism since the existence of the entire creation is owed to Him.

Who's disagreeing with you?

PRB

01-14-2014, 01:35 PM

They said this would lead to Idiocracy.

Idiocracy is a propaganda film by eugenicists to scare people into regulating births and freedoms.

GunnyFreedom

01-14-2014, 01:39 PM

Idiocracy is a propaganda film by eugenicists to scare people into regulating births and freedoms.

ROFL -- says the guy who claims he is not a conspiracy theorist....

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?441373-Retired-police-captain-shoots-at-movie-goers-who-were-texting&p=5374345&viewfull=1#post5374345

coastie

01-14-2014, 01:41 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/281u.jpg

Idiocracy is a propaganda film by eugenicists to scare people into regulating births and freedoms.

No, he states it as if he is saying it happened, and yet he doesn't actually believe it happened. So, then how can he speak from a believer's point of view and not actually be one? You have to understand the whole idea of morality behind the Bible before you can criticize it. He clearly doesn't understand because he is speaking from the point of view of a believer and criticizing it from the point of view of a non-believer. That means he is measuring a whole belief system against his own subjective beliefs while failing to realize that there is a reason that the belief system he is criticizing has an objective moral authority known as God rather than a subjective moral authority by which to judge all others. In this system, God, being the moral authority, can make judgment calls without criticism since the existence of the entire creation is owed to Him.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:41 PM

Sheesh. Like I'd actually eat their children. This thread has gone off the rails because of hyperbole. The difference is that I wrote that I'd eat their children, while the not-guilty police officers literally got away with a street execution against a homeless man. It's legal to murder a bum for kicks in the United States. This is the real issue.

However, I do find it funny that God can kill the entire universe, including children and kittens, yet I'm condemned by FF for statements made in anger.

God created the universe, so He has the authority to take it away. You didn't need to start bashing Christianity. I don't even consider myself a strong believer and yet I can't stand it when atheists make such ignorant comments regarding morality. It is human morality that is subjective. God's morality applies to all of his creation, not Him because he is responsible for the existence of this creation in which we have children and kittens. His morality is absolute, while our rules are not. It is really a fallacy to say that anything a man can think of should apply to all humans equally because that would then set up your own brain as an authority, when there are billions of other brains that may think differently.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:42 PM

Who's disagreeing with you?

I don't know. I was responding to someone. Is someone disagreeing with me?

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 01:43 PM

Day late, dollar short.

I was trolling him, mostly to entertain myself. Just seeing what other off the wall shit i could get him to post.

Very funny. Here's your medal, troll.

asurfaholic

01-14-2014, 01:45 PM

Very funny. Here's your medal, troll.

Thanks!

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 01:48 PM

I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding. The problem here is not really overreaction as I see it. The problem is picking apart people's enraged comments and taking them seriously, then calling them out for it.

Can't we just let people be enraged in their own way? This is a very emotional subject, and we need not resort to infighting over petty details. We know that we're not going to change anyone's attitude here, and perhaps it's best we don't try. Nobody's going to go out and kill any police officer's family members. I think we can safely assume that without letting it weigh on our consciences that we didn't stop it by flinging accusations of impure thought on a message board.

That's a valid point. The thing is, I'm generally able to think straight even while I'm ticked off. Maybe I shouldn't presume that.

If it was really just hyperbole than I apologize to all of you. I'm not really good at reading that.

Sheesh. Like I'd actually eat their children. This thread has gone off the rails because of hyperbole. The difference is that I wrote that I'd eat their children, while the not-guilty police officers literally got away with a street execution against a homeless man. It's legal to murder a bum for kicks in the United States. This is the real issue.

Of course writing it =/= actually doing it. I just take the distinction between innocent life and murderers very seriously.

That said, see above.

However, I do find it funny that God can kill the entire universe, including children and kittens, yet I'm condemned by FF for statements made in anger.

This accusation has been answered.

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 01:52 PM

Retaliating is vengeance it has nothing to do with stopping these people.

Punishing someone is different than stopping them before they act.

Which, incidentally, is the very SAME mentality behind the drug laws, gun laws, etc.

Do you know where 4 cops live in your county?

Nope. One.

Do you know where they go to church?

Yep. Same church as me.

Where their kids go to school?

Homeschooled.

A responsible member of a community knows these things.

Why?

Knowledge is one way of preventing this type of behavior, when cops (and their families) are vulnerable to the community this type of behavior is far less frequent.

If you had limited it to just the cops, I'd agree with you. Nobody should be deliberately harmed because of somebody else's crime.

tod evans

01-14-2014, 02:15 PM

Which, incidentally, is the very SAME mentality behind the drug laws, gun laws, etc..
No it's not, knowledge of logistics in case a cop gets out of hand is completely different than "drug laws".

DO NOT continue to twist and misinterpret my type written words to suit your agenda!

Nope. One..

Then you sir are part of the problem, if your local cops behave in the manner of those in the OP what are you going to do about it?
Talking and making excuses isn't doing anything!

Yep. Same church as me.

Would you be man enough to hold him accountable in front of your congreation?

If not, why not..............If yes, then good!

Homeschooled..

Do you know where their house is?

Why?.

Because when men act like complacent women or children, we as a society, get out of control cops.

You proclaim to want to stop this behavior.............Well accountability starts at home!

If you had limited it to just the cops, I'd agree with you. Nobody should be deliberately harmed because of somebody else's crime.

Why do you continue to talk about harming children?

Is there something wrong with you that causes you to fixate on this because I haven't mentioned harming a child anywhere.

The cops in the OP should rightly be looking over their shoulders 24/7, they should worry about their property and what is being said to their wives and children in public. A "person" who gangs up on a helpless person and beats them to death shouldn't be able to set foot outdoors in their community and neither should their family. Run 'em out of town!.............(On a good day.)

Pussyfootin' around with signs and protests gets exactly what we have now.

Pericles

01-14-2014, 02:18 PM

This is why we should view a jury summons as the opportunity to strike a blow for justice and liberty.

tod evans

01-14-2014, 02:20 PM

This is why we should view a jury summons as the opportunity to strike a blow for justice and liberty.

The courts, as they are, have nothing to do with either justice or liberty.

Suzanimal

01-14-2014, 02:20 PM

I might need a copy of that strongly worded letter...:mad:

Statement from Police Chief, Dan Hughes

As a result of the verdict, Dan Hughes, Fullerton's Chief of Police, has the following comment:

"We respect the jury's verdict, and appreciate the consideration the jury gave to the evidence. We understand that there may be a wide variety of reactions to the verdict and encourage anybody who wishes to express their feelings to do so respectfully.

Over the course of the past two and a half years the City of Fullerton Police Department has taken significant steps to make it the best department possible. As Fullerton’s new Police Chief, I will make sure those efforts continue so that our police department serves the community with honor, integrity and professionalism."
http://www.cityoffullerton.com/news/displaynews.asp?NewsID=1741

Philhelm

01-14-2014, 02:31 PM

God created the universe, so He has the authority to take it away. You didn't need to start bashing Christianity. I don't even consider myself a strong believer and yet I can't stand it when atheists make such ignorant comments regarding morality. It is human morality that is subjective. God's morality applies to all of his creation, not Him because he is responsible for the existence of this creation in which we have children and kittens. His morality is absolute, while our rules are not. It is really a fallacy to say that anything a man can think of should apply to all humans equally because that would then set up your own brain as an authority, when there are billions of other brains that may think differently.

Who says I'm an atheist? I wasn't bashing Christianity so much as making the point that killing children by the millions is not always an immoral absolute, which you touched on in your statement above.

PaulConventionWV

01-14-2014, 03:05 PM

Who says I'm an atheist? I wasn't bashing Christianity so much as making the point that killing children by the millions is not always an immoral absolute, which you touched on in your statement above.

It is to us and as far as we're concerned.

Philhelm

01-14-2014, 03:12 PM

It is to us and as far as we're concerned.

In your previous post you claimed that only God's morality is absolute, and that human morality is subjective. Therefore, whether the act of killing millions of children is immoral depends upon who is committing the act, which means that it cannot be said to be an immoral absolute.

PRB

01-14-2014, 03:15 PM

It is possible to have your life threatened without a gun.

But a gun sure makes it a lot easier, doesn't it?

asurfaholic

01-14-2014, 03:17 PM

But a gun sure makes it a lot easier, doesn't it?

Kelly Thomas might disagree.

PRB

01-14-2014, 03:17 PM

This is why we should view a jury summons as the opportunity to strike a blow for justice and liberty.

Not unless you believe the verdict is already decided and there's nothing you can do, they're just asking you to show up to waste time, which one of my friends, mind you, one who believes in jury nullification, complained about. I just told her "I hope you never need to be in court, because if you ever do, you better hope there are good people on your side, rather than people as selfish as you who thinks your time is more important than an accused person's possible freedom"

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 03:17 PM

But a gun sure makes it a lot easier, doesn't it?

So does a rocket launcher, a F-15 even more so. Right?

PRB

01-14-2014, 03:18 PM

Kelly Thomas might disagree.

How would he know? He must've had a gun!

Which police who beat him used anything Trayvon had?

PRB

01-14-2014, 03:18 PM

So does a rocket launcher, a F-15 even more so. Right?

Indeed, except they're not present in the examples we're talking about. Nor are they common to either civilians or police.

GunnyFreedom

01-14-2014, 03:27 PM

In your previous post you claimed that only God's morality is absolute, and that human morality is subjective. Therefore, whether the act of killing millions of children is immoral depends upon who is committing the act, which means that it cannot be said to be an immoral absolute.

While I do not believe in moral relativism at all, and would therefore come down on the opposing side of someone who subscribed to it, I still have to point out that there is a logical fallacy in this statement. If we were to assume for the sake of argument moral relativity, the fact of relativity in and of itself does not presume that all actions must be moral to someone somewhere. Even within moral relativity there may only be a window within which the relativistic phenomena applies.

We talk about the light spectrum and the visible light spectrum. There is some relativism here, as humans can not see either UV or IR, while many insects can see in UV and many reptiles can see in IR. However, no creature sees in Gamma, X-ray, Microwave, or Radio. Merely because there is some relativism in the visibility of light amongst living creatures, does not mean that there are creatures who see the world in radio waves.

So even presuming some relativity in morality (I personally do not) it does not necessarily follow that this relativism will affect the immorality of mass infanticide. It an "all or nothing" logical fallacy, also known as "bifurcation."

Kelly.

01-14-2014, 03:33 PM

Idiocracy is a propaganda film by eugenicists to scare people into regulating births and freedoms.

i think your talking about a different movie.
idocracy is a documentary about the future

:)

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 03:34 PM

No it's not, knowledge of logistics in case a cop gets out of hand is completely different than "drug laws".

OK, I agree with that. I thought you were suggesting aggressing against someone before they had actually done anything (presumably because it was "likely" that they would do so.

DO NOT continue to twist and misinterpret my type written words to suit your agenda!

Its not deliberate.

Then you sir are part of the problem, if your local cops behave in the manner of those in the OP what are you going to do about it?

I'm not sure, but I'd do something if I knew about it and had the opportunity.

Talking and making excuses isn't doing anything!

I'm not making excuses.

Would you be man enough to hold him accountable in front of your congreation?

If not, why not..............If yes, then good!

If I had the opportunity, yes. See Matthew 18.

That said, he doesn't usually talk about his job. Many people here and on other liberty sites have said that they know cops and that they are arrogant and gloat about being "law enforcement" or whatever. I don't doubt their stories, but that's not the case here.

Do you know where their house is?

I visit every other week.

You proclaim to want to stop this behavior.............Well accountability starts at home!

Why do you continue to talk about harming children?

Is there something wrong with you that causes you to fixate on this because I haven't mentioned harming a child anywhere.

See the context of the conversation.

Gotta go, but I'll follow up later. Good stuff!

PRB

01-14-2014, 03:57 PM

i think your talking about a different movie.
idocracy is a documentary about the future

:)

it's a elitist lie sold as a comedy and understood as a documentary

GunnyFreedom

01-14-2014, 04:06 PM

it's a elitist lie sold as a comedy and understood as a documentary

I am sure that Mike Judge is just a tool of the establishment elitist shadow government and the trilateral commission. :rolleyes: Next are you going to tell us that George Orwell was really just trying to make INGSOC look desirable so that the whole planet embraces fascism? ROFL! I'm not even a Mike Judge fan but you sir are being patently ridiculous. One could just as easily argue that the film was an attempt to get smart people to have more children.

Anti Federalist

01-14-2014, 04:27 PM

It would seem rage and fury is no longer permitted.

Not surprised.

I'm sure this is all just a big misunderstanding. The problem here is not really overreaction as I see it. The problem is picking apart people's enraged comments and taking them seriously, then calling them out for it.

Can't we just let people be enraged in their own way? This is a very emotional subject, and we need not resort to infighting over petty details. We know that we're not going to change anyone's attitude here, and perhaps it's best we don't try. Nobody's going to go out and kill any police officer's family members. I think we can safely assume that without letting it weigh on our consciences that we didn't stop it by flinging accusations of impure thought on a message board.

Kelly.

01-14-2014, 05:09 PM

it's a elitist lie sold as a comedy and understood as a documentary

http://popstrip.com/s/stick-in-the-mud/frames/stick-in-the-mud-001.png

Origanalist

01-14-2014, 05:15 PM

It would seem rage and fury is no longer permitted.

Not surprised.

You will be needing medication for that citizen.

PRB

01-14-2014, 05:43 PM

I am sure that Mike Judge is just a tool of the establishment elitist shadow government and the trilateral commission. :rolleyes: Next are you going to tell us that George Orwell was really just trying to make INGSOC look desirable so that the whole planet embraces fascism? ROFL! I'm not even a Mike Judge fan but you sir are being patently ridiculous. One could just as easily argue that the film was an attempt to get smart people to have more children.

That's exactly what eugenics is....so yes, I already said it. People can be tools of the elite without even knowing it.

cajuncocoa

01-14-2014, 06:43 PM

http://i42.tinypic.com/281u.jpgYou owe a lot of pinkie pies...that ship sailed a long time ago!!

mac_hine

01-14-2014, 07:10 PM

This thread had so much promise, but alas.....
http://replygif.net/i/1045.gif

Anti Federalist

01-14-2014, 07:35 PM

This thread had so much promise, but alas.....
http://replygif.net/i/1045.gif

Yup, just a bunch of heat, and even that is not allowed.

Philhelm

01-14-2014, 07:54 PM

Back on track.

Read the comments on policeone.com at your own peril...

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/6737241-Emotions-flare-as-Calif-police-acquitted/

WM_in_MO

01-14-2014, 08:13 PM

Back on track.

Read the comments on policeone.com at your own peril...

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/6737241-Emotions-flare-as-Calif-police-acquitted/

Nope. I can barely keep myself from pulling a Dorner as it is.

Ugh

http://ddq74coujkv1i.cloudfront.net/acquitart.jpg

What a

fucking

fat

disgusting

PIG

UGH

911muscles you are spot on brother. Man dude you think the same as I. Everything I do, like you ,is to provide for my wife and kids. Only other thing that matters to me is all fellow officers all go home every day after work. Everything else is a minor in comparison.

second comment.

I'm done.

Anti Federalist

01-14-2014, 08:13 PM

Back on track.

Read the comments on policeone.com at your own peril...

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/6737241-Emotions-flare-as-Calif-police-acquitted/

Nope...not gonna subject myself to that.

It's obvious that nothing more can be done, so, I'm not going to stroke out for no good reason.

ETA - Fuck fuck fuck fuck...damn it.

Can't do the right thing no matter what.

Oh well, some truth was to be had anyways.

Ron Thomas said the verdict gave police "carte blanche" to brutalize people.

"All of us need to be very afraid now," he said. "Police officers everywhere can beat us, kill us, whatever they want, but it has been proven right here today they'll get away with it."

Yup, gonna be a bang up year for law enforcement.

Root

01-14-2014, 08:35 PM

Back on track.

Read the comments on policeone.com at your own peril...

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/6737241-Emotions-flare-as-Calif-police-acquitted/
+rep to the person who regristered the username 'FuckYouPigs!' and used Kelly's beaten face as their avatar.

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 09:16 PM

Are us mere "mundanes" allowed to take these people on? Maybe we should all start commenting and taking on the pigs who are defending their brothers in Satan.

Christian Liberty

01-14-2014, 09:35 PM

@My own post- Apparently only cops are allowed to comment... Scumbags can't even defend their own wickedness, ugh...

Mani

01-14-2014, 11:47 PM

So what a minute...

2 cops beat a man to a bloody pulp with video evidence. The guy is dead.

The jury watched the video 50 times and got what? Desensitized or something?

What was the rationale behind them saying the cops are not guilty? No interviews or words like, "the glove didn't fit." or anything like that?

Feeding the Abscess

01-15-2014, 12:14 AM

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1526739_691671410863393_687322880_n.jpg

Mani

01-15-2014, 12:21 AM

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1526739_691671410863393_687322880_n.jpg

Officers - "Stop Resisting!!" - 349 times. Officers win. :(

Origanalist

01-15-2014, 12:25 AM

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1526739_691671410863393_687322880_n.jpg

I didn't see that, this just keeps getting harder and harder not to let completely under my skin. I don't think I want to see the whole thing.

Spikender

01-15-2014, 01:05 AM

The police officers involved in this case are monsters. No, not police officers. Pigs. Fucking pigs.

The members of the jury who let these murderers go have no soul. Not an inkling of one. Not a single trace, not even a vestige. They are rotten and empty on the inside.

I hope I never encounter the scumbags who murdered Kelly Thomas. I don't think I would be able to figure out how to get my foot out of their ass or my hands from around their necks.

This case just further cements the fact that filthy dirt-eating pigs will be able to continue to maim, beat, and slaughter people wherever they stand, and the system will just roll over and cry for more abuse.

Fuck em. Fuck em.

Fuck.

Them.

All.

Best part is, the average citizen doesn't even know this happen, and if they do, they probably won't care.

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 01:15 AM

The cops in the OP should rightly be looking over their shoulders 24/7, they should worry about their property and what is being said to their wives and children in public.

I'm not sure what you could say to their wives and children that would actually accomplish anything, then again, maybe I'm not imaginative enough.

Here's the problem though, most people will support the cops. Not necessarily because they are OK with murder (I don't think the people are quite THAT bad, at least not in blatantly obvious cases) but because the MSM will make it look like the murder didn't actually happen, and people will not be informed that it happened. And there aren't enough people like me to inform them all. Sometimes, I feel like I stand completely alone among the people I know personally. That's hard. I'm sure you know that, but it is.

A "person" who gangs up on a helpless person and beats them to death shouldn't be able to set foot outdoors in their community and neither should their family. Run 'em out of town!.............(On a good day.)

The people who actually commit those crimes being put to death is completely morally justifiable, if possible. As for their families, if the families defend the scumbag they are related to, feel free not to associate with them. I'd back you up, although, unfortunately, most people probably wouldn't. You don't have the right to harm them for thinking/saying bad stuff though.

dillo

01-15-2014, 03:44 AM

how will this affect the relationship between the DA's office and the police. Assuming the prosecutor actually tried now he has to hear these scumbags testify to put people into prison?

kathy88

01-15-2014, 06:10 AM

FBI is considering Federal Charges.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 09:25 AM

SeanTX

01-15-2014, 09:38 AM

I'm not sure what you could say to their wives and children that would actually accomplish anything, then again, maybe I'm not imaginative enough.

The family members of these cops have shown no shame at all, in fact female family members of the Thomas family have claimed that they were confronted and harassed in courthouse bathrooms by female members of the Cicinelli and Ramos family. Cop family members consider themselves part of the same elite class that cops are in.

HOLLYWOOD

01-15-2014, 09:51 AM

I would like to see the 3 degrees of separations for every one of those jurors. There is no doubt in my analysis, there has to be some sort of juror tampering by the state(blackmail, racketeering, bribery, .gov stooges, .gov relatives, statist fools, etc) and the defense should of done a much better and complete background check on each of the selected jurors... 3 deep.

If Kelly was in a Zegna suit, does anyone question the totalitarian regimes would of beat this man to death? The judicial system is now justifying deadly force on poor and mentally ill. Incrementally towards a Nazi-Marxist style government enforcing societal change by theft, force and imprisonment, or by this instance, deadly force.

Civil "Wrongful Death" lawsuit should follow... regurgitate the OJ trail scenarios

kcchiefs6465

01-15-2014, 10:42 AM

FBI is considering Federal Charges.

It would have to be for some crime they have not already been charged for, or it would run afoul of double jeopardy. Mind you, I want to see these sociopaths burn as much as anybody, but I'm not really willing to burn the Constitution in the process. This whole thing the Feds do now of differentiating between a State murder charge and a Federal murder charge in order to loophole around double jeopardy is disgusting.
Well sure. Needless to say though, the Feds aren't going to do a damn thing.

Their reputation is such that them even mentioning getting involved in this case has thoroughly convinced me that justice will never be attained. I would have been "more" optimistic if the leeches et al. remained silent on the matter.

RonPaulFanInGA

01-15-2014, 01:20 PM

How come when Zimmerman was found not guilty, the media worried aloud about "open season on black people", but they never be concerned after these kinds of acquittals that the verdict might embolden other police to behave the same way?

coastie

01-15-2014, 01:26 PM

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1526739_691671410863393_687322880_n.jpg

:(:mad:

FUCK ME. I'm taking a break guys, see you next week.

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:28 PM

How come when Zimmerman was found not guilty, the media worrying aloud about "open season on black people", but they never worry after these kinds of acquittals that the verdict might embolden other police to behave the same way?

I think they do, Americans certainly do.

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:29 PM

It would have to be for some crime they have not already been charged for, or it would run afoul of double jeopardy. Mind you, I want to see these sociopaths burn as much as anybody, but I'm not really willing to burn the Constitution in the process. This whole thing the Feds do now of differentiating between a State murder charge and a Federal murder charge in order to loophole around double jeopardy is disgusting.

Exactly, the Constitution is a bitch (or double edge sword), double jeopardy shields a repeat charge & trial. People already tried this with the Martin Zimmerman case, didn't happen, won't happen (no matter how much people want it, and despite more serious constitutional laws this federal government is willing to violate).

There is no loophole, if there was, everybody is free for grabs every time there's a crime for which multiple jurisdictions have laws for.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 01:31 PM

Horrifying this can happen in America, and the bastards get away with is scott-free. Absolutely horrifying.

https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1526739_691671410863393_687322880_n.jpg

And yet:

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 01:34 PM

It would have to be for some crime they have not already been charged for, or it would run afoul of double jeopardy. Mind you, I want to see these sociopaths burn as much as anybody, but I'm not really willing to burn the Constitution in the process. This whole thing the Feds do now of differentiating between a State murder charge and a Federal murder charge in order to loophole around double jeopardy is disgusting.

If I were the President, I'd simply announce aloud that I'd pardon anyone who killed them. No Federal murder charge, just an announcement that anyone who killed the scumbags who murdered Kelly Thomas would receive a Presidential pardon. Which would have the same effect as "outlawing" those officers.

Of course, I'd probably get impeached for doing that.

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 01:37 PM

The family members of these cops have shown no shame at all, in fact female family members of the Thomas family have claimed that they were confronted and harassed in courthouse bathrooms by female members of the Cicinelli and Ramos family.

I can't even describe my disgust with them... in that case. Ick...

Cop family members consider themselves part of the same elite class that cops are in.[/QUOTE]

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 01:46 PM

I can't even describe my disgust with them... in that case. Ick...

Cop family members consider themselves part of the same elite class that cops are in.

Interesting Collectivist statement about cops. Isn't that anti-libertarian?

Pericles

01-15-2014, 01:47 PM

+rep to the person who regristered the username 'FuckYouPigs!' and used Kelly's beaten face as their avatar.
Yes

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:49 PM

If I were the President, I'd simply announce aloud that I'd pardon anyone who killed them. No Federal murder charge, just an announcement that anyone who killed the scumbags who murdered Kelly Thomas would receive a Presidential pardon. Which would have the same effect as "outlawing" those officers.

Of course, I'd probably get impeached for doing that.

basically what you're saying is, you'd send out a drone to kill those scumbags and say "Yeah, I did it, I'm the President, kiss my ass". You might violate a law or piss off some constitutionalists, but the fact you'd even think about it tells how much you care about vengeance above rule of law.

What the cops did was illegal, and the system worked, the law protects people who are found not guilty, so that mobs don't lynch people arbitrarily, juries found the cops not guilty, which is exactly what the law says and does. The law is not self enforcing, it's enforced by multiple parties to balance power. If you don't appreciate the fact that sometimes bad people get away with crime, you're what's wrong with the system, not the criminals themselves.

What you're saying, is exactly what Holder & Obama tried to do for avenging Trayvon, taking on their personal issues and abusing federal power.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/15/us/justice-department-to-restart-hate-crime-investigation-in-trayvon-martins-death.html?_r=0

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 01:49 PM

Interesting Collectivist statement about cops. Isn't that anti-libertarian?

The next question is, is this misquote deliberate or accidental? Because FF neglecting to insert the {quote} bracket was pretty obvious, even to a noob, which you are not.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 01:49 PM

Interesting Collectivist statement about cops. Isn't that anti-libertarian?

what was the cause of death?

were these libertarian cops?

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 01:52 PM

basically what you're saying is, you'd send out a drone to kill those scumbags and say "Yeah, I did it, I'm the President, kiss my ass". You might violate a law or piss off some constitutionalists, but the fact you'd even think about it tells how much you care about vengeance above rule of law.

What the cops did was illegal, and the system worked, the law protects people who are found not guilty, so that mobs don't lynch people arbitrarily, juries found the cops not guilty, which is exactly what the law says and does. The law is not self enforcing, it's enforced by multiple parties to balance power. If you don't appreciate the fact that sometimes bad people get away with crime, you're what's wrong with the system, not the criminals themselves.

What you're saying, is exactly what Holder & Obama tried to do for avenging Trayvon, taking on their personal issues and abusing federal power.

no, i don't think he would use drones. He loves the firing squad idea.

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:52 PM

Interesting Collectivist statement about cops. Isn't that anti-libertarian?

It's ok to be anti-libertarian when you're hating on the state!

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:52 PM

no, i don't think he would use drones. He loves the firing squad idea.

I don't think he dead person cares how it's done.

PRB

01-15-2014, 01:53 PM

what was the cause of death?

were these libertarian cops?

yeah, because only libertarian cops have rights.

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 01:56 PM

The next question is, is this misquote deliberate or accidental? Because FF neglecting to insert the {quote} bracket was pretty obvious, even to a noob, which you are not.

Here is the exact quote:

I can't even describe my disgust with them... in that case. Ick...

Cop family members consider themselves part of the same elite class that cops are in.

That is a collectivist statement about cops and I thought libertarians were anti-collectivist.

Maybe the only group you're allowed to collectivize are cops, I mean "the pigs," which is the common term used here.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 01:58 PM

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:00 PM

It's ok to be anti-libertarian when you're hating on the state!

Cops or "The pigs" are people too.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:01 PM

Here is the exact quote:

That is a collectivist statement about cops and I thought libertarians were anti-collectivist.

Maybe the only group you're allowed to collectivize are cops, I mean "the pigs," which is the common term used here.

Seriously? you are still going to pretend that FF said that? Seriously??

I mean, I have issues with FF at times, but at least I don't LIE about him. SMDH.

It's as obvious as the sun in the sky that SeanTX said that. Intellectual integrity, you have none Frank. And now look at PRB in #223 quoting your post. When you lie, your lies infect others, and then your disease spreads like a cancer. What does it feel like to be a cancer, Frank?

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 02:01 PM

Interesting Collectivist statement about cops. Isn't that anti-libertarian?

I only said half of that quote. I'm not sure why you misquoted it, but the bottom part of it wasn't me.

As for my personal take...

First of all, no, collectivist statements are not inherently unlibertarian. "All murderers are scumbags" is "collectivist" but its true. "rapists are all evil" is collectivist but its true.

As for the particular statement that I didn't say... In this case the cops' family certainly did, based on what Sean posted. If the family of the cop that I know thinks like this, they hide it really well because I've never noticed it. But I suspect its at least true for some cop's families.

basically what you're saying is, you'd send out a drone to kill those scumbags and say "Yeah, I did it, I'm the President, kiss my ass". You might violate a law or piss off some constitutionalists, but the fact you'd even think about it tells how much you care about vengeance above rule of law.

Except that I didn't say I'd kill them. I simply said I'd pardon whoever did.

What the cops did was illegal, and the system worked, the law protects people who are found not guilty, so that mobs don't lynch people arbitrarily, juries found the cops not guilty, which is exactly what the law says and does. The law is not self enforcing, it's enforced by multiple parties to balance power. If you don't appreciate the fact that sometimes bad people get away with crime, you're what's wrong with the system, not the criminals themselves.

Well, in an ideal world no guilty people would get away with crime, nor would any innocent person get charged with a crime. Of course, that's not realistic, so you have a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard that errs on the side of declaring people not guilty, which is a good thing. The problem is that in this case, the killers were let off specifically because they are cops. Because the nation is a nation of sheep, and the jury were cop worshippers. Its a completely different sitaution when the killer commits the crime with the full protection of law. In that case the killers should die, and whoever has the guts to defy the law and do so is a hero. I am NOT suggesting that the government kill them in any way, shape, or form, which would indeed be an abuse of power, as you say. The power of PARDON, by contrast, is a constitutional power.

What you're saying, is exactly what Holder & Obama tried to do for avenging Trayvon, taking on their personal issues and abusing federal power.

I don't see how that was comparable at all. Was Zimmerman videotaped murdering Trayvon Martin in cold blood? No. Did it happen? Probably not.

Different issue entirely.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 02:02 PM

Cops or "The pigs" are people too.

most people i know don't beat 'other' people to death unless they're hopped on meth or steroids.

And apparently, 'someone' has their head so far up a cops ass they can't see or hear. Again, what was the cause of death?

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 02:03 PM

That is a collectivist statement about cops and I thought libertarians were anti-collectivist.

Maybe the only group you're allowed to collectivize are cops, I mean "the pigs," which is the common term used here.

I don't refer to all cops as pigs. Only the ones who act like pigs. I know that some don't. I wasn't the one who made the statement in question.

I called YOU a pig yes, but that doesn't mean I think all cops are pigs.

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 02:05 PM

BTW: This is the part of the post that was actually said by me:

I can't even describe my disgust with them... in that case. Ick...

The rest of it was a quoting mistake.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:06 PM

Again, what was the cause of death?

I am really curious as to why he refuses to answer this, what, the seventh time you've asked him? It's almost like he has something to hide...

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:07 PM

Seriously? you are still going to pretend that FF said that? Seriously??

I mean, I have issues with FF at times, but at least I don't LIE about him. SMDH.

It's as obvious as the sun in the sky that SeanTX said that. Intellectual integrity, you have none Frank. And now look at PRB in #223 quoting your post. When you lie, your lies infect others, and then your disease spreads like a cancer. What does it feel like to be a cancer, Frank?

I quoted the entire statement Gunny.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 02:07 PM

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:08 PM

BTW: This is the part of the post that was actually said by me:

The rest of it was a quoting mistake.

Yeah, that was pretty obvious to anybody who has ever used a message board before.

Frank has been here for six and a half years, posted nearly 29 THOUSAND posts to this one board alone, and he wants us to believe that he still doesn't know how a message board works. LMAO

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:08 PM

I quoted the entire statement Gunny.

So you have been here for six and a half years, posted nearly 29 THOUSAND posts to this board alone, and you still don't know how a message board works? Do you really expect anybody to believe that tripe?

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:10 PM

Christian Liberty

01-15-2014, 02:10 PM

Makes me ponder something, and i'm sure cop apologists have the same thought, and that is why don't these 'so-called' good cops take a public stand and speak out against their brothers in blue who are making them ALL look like stormtroopers?...

i know, tough question eh?

In almost all cases I have to make some qualifiers before I make the "good cop" statement. I think some of them are "good enough" that they wouldn't do something like this, and I think that number is pretty high, although I suspect that number is probably closer to a slim majority than 99%. But... I do think there are a lot of cops who have a problem with this.

On the other hand, the POLITICIANS, I think, secretly love it, because it enhances the police state. Rand Paul may be an exception in the senate, and you've got a few in the House, but I suspect the other 99 senators and most of the House members, not to mention the POTUS , are secretly glad this kind of stuff happens.

And I suspect the powers that be would punish those "good cops" if they did speak out. They'd lose their jobs to someone who is even worse.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 02:11 PM

I am really curious as to why he refuses to answer this, what, the seventh time you've asked him? It's almost like he has something to hide...

could be he doesn't understand the question, and it could be he has family in LE, so its just a normal step to advocate for cop violence.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:13 PM

FF admits HE made the mistake, not I. I quoted FF fully and did not lie about it.

His Mistake.

Yeah, it's never you Frank. :rolleyes:

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:13 PM

So you have been here for six and a half years, posted nearly 29 THOUSAND posts to this board alone, and you still don't know how a message board works? Do you really expect anybody to believe that tripe?

When I said I quoted him fully, I meant it. You said I lied. I didn't realize when I quoted fully that he made a mistake.

JK/SEA

01-15-2014, 02:14 PM

In almost all cases I have to make some qualifiers before I make the "good cop" statement. I think some of them are "good enough" that they wouldn't do something like this, and I think that number is pretty high, although I suspect that number is probably closer to a slim majority than 99%. But... I do think there are a lot of cops who have a problem with this.

On the other hand, the POLITICIANS, I think, secretly love it, because it enhances the police state. Rand Paul may be an exception in the senate, and you've got a few in the House, but I suspect the other 99 senators and most of the House members, not to mention the POTUS , are secretly glad this kind of stuff happens.

And I suspect the powers that be would punish those "good cops" if they did speak out. They'd lose their jobs to someone who is even worse.

but but..cops are brave, and heroes to boot...

burp

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:15 PM

When I said I quoted him fully, I meant it. You said I lied. I didn't realize when I quoted fully that he made a mistake.

Even though you had to take out the extra end quote. You still didn't know. LMAO! You really think anybody is going to believe that? Really?

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:17 PM

Even though you had to take out the extra end quote. You still didn't know. LMAO! You really think anybody is going to believe that? Really?

I have no reason to lie about not knowing that FF made a mistake.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:19 PM

I have no reason to lie about not knowing that FF made a mistake.

Even though you had to remove the extra end quote by hand. SMDH :rolleyes:

Integrity Frank. You don't have it. coastie was spot on 100%. And your BS just drove him off - an ACTUAL retired LEO. Bet you are proud of yourself.

FrankRep

01-15-2014, 02:22 PM

Even though you had to remove the extra end quote by hand. SMDH :rolleyes:

Integrity Frank. You don't have it. coastie was spot on 100%. And your BS just drove him off - an ACTUAL retired LEO. Bet you are proud of yourself.

I didn't lie about not knowing that FF made a mistake.

GunnyFreedom

01-15-2014, 02:34 PM

I didn't lie about not knowing that FF made a mistake.

Well, after your posting here for six and a half years, having made nearly 30,000 posts, having to remove the stray end quote by hand and still not knowing what that means, the only other possible option is...

http://glenbradley.net/images/share/obtuseangles.gif

But is it deliberate?

Pretty much every single poster on RPF's sees FF's post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?441365-Police-officers-not-guilty-in-Kelly-Thomas-beating-death&p=5375869&viewfull=1#post5375869) and knows that a {QUOTE} tag was misplaced. But the guy who has posted nearly 30,000 posts over the last 6 and a half years doesn't know what that means?

Not buying it Frank. Not for a minute. Especially when you had to manually delete the unmatched {/QUOTE} tag. ANd I know you manually deleted the unmatched {/QUOTE} tag because I freaking watched you do it. The post came up with the tag still there, and you did a stealth edit and deleted it before the timer recorded an edit.

For heaven's sake, find at least one shred of manhood, of integrity. Coastie was more than 100% right, he was 1000% right. You have no integrity at all.