RP should NOT run as 3rd Party Candidate- 3rd parties as tools of major parties

[icon57]

CNN/MSM/DEMS would love to see RP run as 3rd Party, we don't want to play into their hands. While RP may do very well, he could be handing the Presidency to Clinton.

Third parties as tools of major parties

A growing trend in US elections is for a major party and its supporters to help a third party with the idea of taking votes that would otherwise be likely to go to the other major party's candidates. This is the classic "divide and conquer" tactic.
The idea is that if a third political party normally pulls far more voters from one major party than the other, the other major party can benefit by the third party doing well in the election.
Currently in the US, the Green Party is viewed as pulling more from the Democratic Party than the Republican Party, and the Libertarian Party is viewed as taking more votes from the Republican Party than the Democratic Party.

Republican Theodore Roosevelt ran as the Bull-Moose Party (Progressive Party) nominee in the 1912 election and won more votes than Republican incumbent William Howard Taft, who became the first (and to date, only) incumbent
President seeking reelection to finish third. (Former Presidents Martin Van Buren and Millard Fillmore both finished third in the 19th century, but neither was the incumbent President at the time.)
The split in the Republican vote gave Democrat Woodrow Wilson victory with 42% of the popular vote, but 435 electoral votes. Socialist Party candidate Eugene Debs won 6% of the vote.

In 1992 some political observers attributed Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton's defeat of incumbent Republican President George Herbert Walker Bush to Ross Perot's good showing. Others cite evidence that Clinton would still have won in a direct race with Bush.

In 2000, the victory of Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush over incumbent Democratic Vice President Al Gore for the US Presidency was widely attributed to the good showing of Ralph Nader, running on the Green Party ticket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_(United_States)

[apc3161]

I refuse to play into this whole Republican vs. Democrat crap.

This country should not have a two party system and I am going to be guided by my principles. If my vote messes up the current balance for the two parties then tough for them.

I'm sick of this "vote for the lesser of two evils" crap.

If everyone just voted for who they thought was the best candidate, instead of voting for who they thought had the best chance of beating a candidate they don't like, this country would be a better place.

This democratic vs. republican fiasco has made our country worse off.

If they don't elect Ron Paul as the republican candidate, and he runs as an independent then I am voting for him. True, the republicans might lose, but hopefully that will make them wake up and realize that people are outright sick of interventionism, corruption, taxes, and more of the same politics from Washington. If they have to lose a few elections to realize this, so be it.

Also don't forget, if Clinton gets elected, this country is f'ing fucked. She will makes the lives of the average Americans miserable and then the democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves and their stupid domestic policies.

When this happens, people will probably start voting Republican again, and hopefully the upset that Ron Paul might soon cause will be fresh in their mind, and they will go back to their roots of small government, instead of the crap we are getting right now from the republicans.

[icon57]

I refuse to play into this whole Republican vs. Democrat crap.

This country should not have a two party system and I am going to be guided by my principles. If my vote messes up the current balance for the two parties then tough for them.

I'm sick of this "vote for the lesser of two evils" crap.

If everyone just voted for who they thought was the best candidate, instead of voting for who they thought had the best chance of beating a candidate they don't like, this country would be a better place.

This democratic vs. republican fiasco has made our country worse off.

If they don't elect Ron Paul as the republican candidate, and he runs as an independent then I am voting for him. True, the republicans might lose, but hopefully that will make them wake up and realize that people are outright sick of interventionism, corruption, taxes, and more of the same politics from Washington. If they have to lose a few elections to realize this, so be it.

Also don't forget, if Clinton gets elected, this country is f'ing fucked. She will makes the lives of the average Americans miserable and then the democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves and their stupid domestic policies.

When this happens, people will probably start voting Republican again, and hopefully the upset that Ron Paul might soon cause will be fresh in their mind, and they will go back to their roots of small government, instead of the crap we are getting right now from the republicans.

i believe we really have a one party system with a left and right wing who constantly bicker in order to distract us from what they do behind the scenes(planning for north american union, amero, ect). a viable "2nd party" has yet to emerge with significant monetary/popular support and power to challenge them in their game, which is dominated by the elite. the best thing we can do at this point is make sure RP wins the rep nomination

[AlexMerced]

yeah, it's not about republicans winning, it's about goo policy winning, and if Ron Paul does not win the mod (which he will) then it's his duty to america to move foward.

He will take probably just as many votes from both parties, who will both have candidates who are too similar to matter anyways.

it's premature anyways, this isn't even something to consider until the end of the primaries if this is the situation we're in.

Although Pauls status has become so Iconic I think when that time comes no matter which route he takes, whether there two or three candidates on the ballot for president ROn Paul will get a lot of attention for sticking it out and easily pull a good chunk of the vote.

Hell... they're might even be a risk of him winning :).

[apc3161]

I agree, he would take candidates from both sides of the isle

I also agree its too early to really discuss this, right now all of efforts should be focusing on winning this primary.

[lucius]

i believe we really have a one party system with a left and right wing who constantly bicker in order to distract us from what they do behind the scenes(planning for north american union, amero, ect). a viable "2nd party" has yet to emerge with significant monetary/popular support and power to challenge them in their game, which is dominated by the elite. the best thing we can do at this point is make sure RP wins the rep nomination

Well put! :)

Confessions of a Covert Agent:

"Please don’t confuse this as partisan propaganda. I don’t give a sh*t about the Democrat or Republican PsyOps mind-f*ck dynamic. They’re just labels to divide a potentially powerful united US public.

It’s hard to get the average American to understand these things. Most everyone in this country has been mind-f*cked since birth. For a very blatant example, you can look at the advertising industry and the way they have increased intensely their focus on the youth. It’s all about breeding impulsive emotionally driven consumers through repetition - over and over again - buy, buy, buy. You hear something enough and you internalize the message. It becomes something like the air you breathe, like gravity. It’s there, omnipresent, but you don’t realize it or consciously think about it. It becomes the spring from which your thoughts leap forth.

What it all boils down to is the exposure rate. You take a simple message and you repeat it over and over, such as mentioning Saddam and 9/11. You don’t have to say Saddam was involved in 9/11, because that is not true. You just have to mention Saddam and 9/11 in the same simple repetitive message thousands of times and people will support an attack on a country that didn’t have anything to do with 9/11 because they’ve been psychologically conditioned to link the two.

It’s psychological operations on a grand scale, mass psychology. The scientific art of manipulating public opinion is 100 years old now. PsyOps have evolved to the point, thanks to the all pervasive mass media, where we can make you believe, or at least passively accept, whatever we want you to. I secretly worked with the world’s most powerful media companies to get you to believe what “they” want you to believe. The media is the most efficient weapon of tyranny and oppression ever created. No need to physically control populations anymore when you can do it mentally - program it in, internalize the rules.

To give a little more background on publicly revealed psychological operations, in 1977, after the Congressional Church Committee investigated CIA manipulation of the news media, and right after George Bush Sr. left his post as the Director of the CIA, famed Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein searched a little deeper into what was known as Operation Mockingbird. He revealed that over 400 US journalists were actually carrying out clandestine CIA PsyOps services. Bernstein identified operations involving almost every major US news outlet, most notably The New York Times, CBS and Time magazine. The CIA responded to all of this with a “limited hangout.” A “limited hangout” is CIA speak for when classified information gets out and you have to make it seem as if you are “coming clean” with all the information on the operation, but in reality you are really just admitting part of the operation so you can cover up other deeper parts and continue the program. This worked very effectively for them, as the US public quickly moved on and this operation has largely been forgotten. Currently, I would estimate, with cable news and the Internet now, that there are well over a thousand covert operatives spread throughout the news media. They have a firm grip on television, newspapers, wire services, radio and magazines. However, with the Internet - that’s their weak spot - it’s too decentralized and difficult to control.

The Pentagon’s Information Operations Roadmap now describes the Internet as an enemy “weapons system.” The Pentagon doesn’t hide the fact that they want total control over information, or as they call it “information dominance.” They very plainly state that they seek to “control land, sea, space and information.” This is what they refer to as “full spectrum dominance.” If you don’t think they see this as a top priority, look at Iraq. The plan to “embed” journalists with the military in Iraq was a strategic operation that considered “journalism as part of psychological operations.” The journalists that weren’t “embedded” were considered “enemy combatants.” More journalists have been killed in Iraq than in any other war, and it is the US doing a large portion of the killing.

Before I go too far here, the point I want to make to the US public, the bottom line is that the most power crazed and greed addicted people are above the law and get away with everything. In the covert world rules do not apply. Democracy is a fairy tale. Nothing is what it seems, reality isn’t real. Through the looking glass Alice goes."

http://artofmentalwarfare.com/pog/category/features/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZg-RswIco

Political Ponerology (A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes): http://www.ponerology.com/

[icon57]

Well put! :)

Confessions of a Covert Agent:

"Please don’t confuse this as partisan propaganda. I don’t give a sh*t about the Democrat or Republican PsyOps mind-f*ck dynamic. They’re just labels to divide a potentially powerful united US public.

It’s hard to get the average American to understand these things. Most everyone in this country has been mind-f*cked since birth. For a very blatant example, you can look at the advertising industry and the way they have increased intensely their focus on the youth. It’s all about breeding impulsive emotionally driven consumers through repetition - over and over again - buy, buy, buy. You hear something enough and you internalize the message. It becomes something like the air you breathe, like gravity. It’s there, omnipresent, but you don’t realize it or consciously think about it. It becomes the spring from which your thoughts leap forth.

What it all boils down to is the exposure rate. You take a simple message and you repeat it over and over, such as mentioning Saddam and 9/11. You don’t have to say Saddam was involved in 9/11, because that is not true. You just have to mention Saddam and 9/11 in the same simple repetitive message thousands of times and people will support an attack on a country that didn’t have anything to do with 9/11 because they’ve been psychologically conditioned to link the two.

It’s psychological operations on a grand scale, mass psychology. The scientific art of manipulating public opinion is 100 years old now. PsyOps have evolved to the point, thanks to the all pervasive mass media, where we can make you believe, or at least passively accept, whatever we want you to. I secretly worked with the world’s most powerful media companies to get you to believe what “they” want you to believe. The media is the most efficient weapon of tyranny and oppression ever created. No need to physically control populations anymore when you can do it mentally - program it in, internalize the rules.

To give a little more background on publicly revealed psychological operations, in 1977, after the Congressional Church Committee investigated CIA manipulation of the news media, and right after George Bush Sr. left his post as the Director of the CIA, famed Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein searched a little deeper into what was known as Operation Mockingbird. He revealed that over 400 US journalists were actually carrying out clandestine CIA PsyOps services. Bernstein identified operations involving almost every major US news outlet, most notably The New York Times, CBS and Time magazine. The CIA responded to all of this with a “limited hangout.” A “limited hangout” is CIA speak for when classified information gets out and you have to make it seem as if you are “coming clean” with all the information on the operation, but in reality you are really just admitting part of the operation so you can cover up other deeper parts and continue the program. This worked very effectively for them, as the US public quickly moved on and this operation has largely been forgotten. Currently, I would estimate, with cable news and the Internet now, that there are well over a thousand covert operatives spread throughout the news media. They have a firm grip on television, newspapers, wire services, radio and magazines. However, with the Internet - that’s their weak spot - it’s too decentralized and difficult to control.

The Pentagon’s Information Operations Roadmap now describes the Internet as an enemy “weapons system.” The Pentagon doesn’t hide the fact that they want total control over information, or as they call it “information dominance.” They very plainly state that they seek to “control land, sea, space and information.” This is what they refer to as “full spectrum dominance.” If you don’t think they see this as a top priority, look at Iraq. The plan to “embed” journalists with the military in Iraq was a strategic operation that considered “journalism as part of psychological operations.” The journalists that weren’t “embedded” were considered “enemy combatants.” More journalists have been killed in Iraq than in any other war, and it is the US doing a large portion of the killing.

Before I go too far here, the point I want to make to the US public, the bottom line is that the most power crazed and greed addicted people are above the law and get away with everything. In the covert world rules do not apply. Democracy is a fairy tale. Nothing is what it seems, reality isn’t real. Through the looking glass Alice goes."

http://artofmentalwarfare.com/pog/category/features/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZg-RswIco

Political Ponerology (A Science on the Nature of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes): http://www.ponerology.com/


thanks for bringing that to light. i've noticed those types of techniques used by the gov't and fed to the media who carry on their work by repeating these mantras over and over as a means of subtle influence and control. i dislike being subconsciously programmed by these manipulators and instead refer to a variety of sources on the internet for news and information. i know they want more power over what is allowed on the internet and i'm sure that will be the next target for regulation and subversion.

[loupeznik]

I'm a tool.

Vote LP

[winston_blade]

I would be fine if he ran as an independent. I really don't think he should run under the CP or LP. That will just push him back into the fringe category.

[RJB]

I would be fine if he ran as an independent. I really don't think he should run under the CP or LP. That will just push him back into the fringe category.

I would love to see the LP, CP, Green, Reform, etc Party unite behind RP.

I know, fat chance...

[fsk]

It's not completely illogical for Ron Paul to run as a 3rd party candidate.

Suppose Ron Paul would get 40% of the votes from Republicans and 40% of the votes from Democrats. With only 40% of the delegates, he probably won't win the nomination.

However, if he can get on the ballot in a 3-way race, he could win with 40% of the popular vote.

Suppose Ron Paul gets 30%-40% in the primaries. If the Libertarian party offered him the nomination, nobody would be offended if he changed his mind and accepted.