Gun Ban At Country Star Toby Keith's Newest Restaurant Causes Outcry

[aGameOfThrones]

In mid-December, the 15th in country superstar Toby Keith’s growing restaurant chain opened its doors in the North Virginia town of Woodbridge, around 20 miles south of Washington, D.C.


It didn’t take long for diners to notice a sign some saw as incongruous on the door of the self-proclaimed cowboy’s I Love This Bar & Grill: “No Guns Permitted.”

The singer’s team posted the following statement on the restaurant’s Facebook page on Saturday, after days of social media questions and complaints:


While we understand and respect every person’s right to own and bear arms, we at Toby Keith’s I Love This Bar and Grill, with guidance from the State of Virginia and based on insurance regulations, have adopted a no weapons policy. It is our desire to provided a safe, enjoyable and entertaining experience for our patrons and staff.



Virginia is an open carry state, meaning gun enthusiasts are welcome to brandish their weapons openly — except within private premises or businesses that enact a ban.

Keith’s Woodbridge outpost is just the latest business to find itself in the proverbial crosshairs of the divisive gun rights debate. In September, with mounting pressure from gun control groups including Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense, Starbucks’ billionaire founder Howard Schultz announced firearms were no longer welcome in his coffee shops. The Seattle-based java giant had found itself playing host, unwittingly, to pro-gun rallies in its stores.

After their success lobbying Starbucks, Moms Demand Action has set their sights on office supply chain Staples, where there is no explicit corporate policy banning guns.

The gun control group was formed the day after the Newtown massacre at Sandy Hook and now boasts a membership of over 110,000 grassroots activists. Its founder, Shannon Watts, posted on Keith’s restaurant page shortly after the gun ban announcement: “Mothers of America thank you!”



http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2013/12/29/gun-ban-at-country-star-toby-keiths-newest-restaurant-causes-outcry/?partner=yahootix

[MelissaWV]

Eh then don't eat there. The food is likely overpriced anyhow, given the track record of a lot of these places.

They made a decision to cut costs (insurancewise) and gamble they'd make up for any loss in sales.

[phill4paul]

Lol. I hope patrons avoid it in droves. Murder was committed down on music row. That is why vigilante justice should be enacted. More so than gun restrictions.

[GunnyFreedom]

"brandish"

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G2y8Sx4B2Sk/0.jpg

[TaftFan]

Not a fan of his anyways.

[phill4paul]

"brandish"

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/G2y8Sx4B2Sk/0.jpg

That's "armed to the terror of the people" here in North Cackalacky.

[kahless]

--

[Uriel999]

Wow. I have eaten at at a Toby Keith restaurant once. Got a free burger and fries for being in the military. Thought that was pretty awesome and planned to return to visit it...NOT NOW! Thanks for the free meal tyrants! Go suck it!

[Origanalist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZaPfNZvSZM

[GunnyFreedom]

That's "armed to the terror of the people" here in North Cackalacky.

Yes, but 'brandishing' is a real thing, and it can be legitimately criminally aggressive. Like pointing a weapon at someone or a crowd and ordering them to do something they do not want to. Just carrying is not brandishing, by any legitimate definition.

[dillo]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

[Uriel999]

Yes, but 'brandishing' is a real thing, and it can be legitimately criminally aggressive. Like pointing a weapon at someone or a crowd and ordering them to do something they do not want to. Just carrying is not brandishing, by any legitimate definition.

Usually only cops do that though. Especially before or after killing your dog for no particular reason.

[phill4paul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZaPfNZvSZM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97txFWkqSiU

[phill4paul]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

Lol. The bars you go to must suck in their mediocrity. Or be immune to turrurists.

[Anti Federalist]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

Why?

I have, many times.

Just last night, as a matter of fact, nice little bar and Italian joint right downtown.

[cjm]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

please explain.

[phill4paul]

Why?

I have, many times.

Just last night, as a matter of fact, nice little bar and Italian joint right downtown.

Went all day feloniously armed. Didn't hurt a soul. No one panicked. There was no terror to the people. Dropped off a cut and split load of wood to a friend. Stopped by the bar in between for some chat and a "drive by." "Drive by" being a shot and a beer. Drank, talked and came home. Just call me "Phillonious." A loving heartfelt intent. ;)

[Anti Federalist]

Went all day feloniously armed. Didn't hurt a soul. No one panicked. There was no terror to the people. Dropped off a cut and split load of wood to a friend. Stopped by the bar in between for some chat and a "drive by." "Drive by" being a shot and a beer. Drank, talked and came home. Just call me "Phillonious." A loving heartfelt intent. ;)

You are reported.

[Keith and stuff]

It sounds too dangerous for me. I guess if you want to be defenseless and perhaps murdered, it makes sense to eat there. Go for it. I'll stick with freedom ;)

[Anti Federalist]

As to the OP...

Don't like "chain" restaurants, hate country music, not too fond of Keith's sort of neoconnish politics.

So I won't be there anyways.

[Keith and stuff]

As to the OP...

Don't like "chain" restaurants, hate country music, not too fond of Kieth's sort of neoconnish politics.

So I won't be there anyways.
His politics are neocon but he claims to be a Democrat and his name is Keith. Kieth is a very raw name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5HeIORRRQ

Learn where Keith really stands. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/19/toby-keith-praises-obama_n_119930.html

[phill4paul]

You are reported.

I'm starting to wonder about your interest in me comrade. For the record I had one shot of bourbon. I then waited 2 hrs while drinking water and then had one beer. After one more hour of drinking coffee I then drove home. I can have confirmations as soon as i can call my friends and get the story straight.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm starting to wonder about your interest in me comrade. For the record I had one shot of bourbon. I then waited 2 hrs while drinking water and then had one beer. After one more hour of drinking coffee I then drove home. I can have confirmations as soon as i can call my friends and get the story straight.

This is unacceptable Comrade.

SWAT will be on scene within minutes to take a forced blood sample.

Haven't consumed any illicit drugs recently, have you, Comrade?

And I show no more interest in you than any other Mundane.

I am just doing my Patriotic Duty: See Something, Say Something.

[Anti Federalist]

His politics are neocon but he claims to be a Democrat and his name is Keith

LoL - He supports a Blue Team neo-con.

[phill4paul]

This is unacceptable Comrade.

SWAT will be on scene within minutes to take a forced blood sample.

Haven't consumed any illicit drugs recently, have you, Comrade?

And I show no more interest in you than any other Mundane.

I am just doing my Patriotic Duty: See Something, Say Something.

I have been visited by ministers of truth and justice. I apologize for my recalcitrate behaviour. You were right in pointing it out. The punishments meted out on me, and my dog, because of your vigilance is noted. Thank you. I will not forget your benevolence.

[dillo]

I dont like the idea of guns and alcohol, but thats probably because Ive worked at a busy bar in a college town and deal with idiots on a daily basis.

[DamianTV]

Only the truly insane would take a gun with the intent of using it to commit a robbery at an NRA Convention or Gun Show.

Those that support Abolishing Gun Rights must also support Armed Robbery and Shooting Deaths, because they are supporting disarming the Law Abiding Victims, not the Criminals.

[enhanced_deficit]

All restaurants or just his? If the latter, could it be due to national security reasons since he had sung some controversial songs during during or after Fallujah bombing in Iraq?

La La Fallujah - Toby Keith - Taliban Song Live - YouTube (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVc8 XDYsOFBY&ei=6jvBUta6KMrVkQfSg4C4CQ&usg=AFQjCNE7jgw1ejmOZvAB11ij6zNQSr28ZQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc8XDYsOFBY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9fvR9l7ITE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9fvR9l7ITE


On a different note, this was not surprising:
Toby Keith Praises Obama, Says He's A Democrat - Huffington Post (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2008%2F0 8%2F19%2Ftoby-keith-praises-obama_n_119930.html&ei=_TzBUvLTKcW6kQf1-IDQAg&usg=AFQjCNFL6boGKQJo6x2SfGt0VtYysYOkBA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0)

[devil21]

My perspective on things changed once I accepted that someone like Toby Keith is basically an actor. His image and music has nothing to do with his personal politics and who he is as a person and it never did. He's a media commercial creation. I don't know much about his history but anyone that thought he was some gun totin country rebel simply fell for his schtick and are now angry about how stupid they feel when "his" restaurant won't let them do what they thought he supported.

Reminds me of Dr. Dre saying during interviews that he wasn't a "gangsta" and never did any of the stuff in his music but he gave people what they wanted. His financial backers had an agenda behind the promotion of his music so it was win-win.

[Suzanimal]

My husband runs a sports bar (25 years in the business) and the only problem he's ever had in all those years was from (drum roll please) an off duty cop. He brandished his weapon at another guy for checkin out his girl, my husband said the scariest part was the guy wasn't even drunk (they were sharing a pitcher of beer and it was still 1/2 full).

[Suzanimal]

Reminds me of Dr. Dre saying during interviews that he wasn't a "gangsta" and never did any of the stuff in his music but he gave people what they wanted. His financial backers had an agenda behind the promotion of his music so it was win-win.

What?! Dr.Dre ain't a gangsta? Is he at least a real Dr.? ;)

[WM_in_MO]

Oh look, a clever distraction.

[Todd]

It's a Private business. He can make up the rules as he sees fit for his establishment. That being said I also have the choice not to patronize his restaurant.

[pcosmar]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

Many years ago,,when I Open Carried,, I was in several bars armed.
Only one asked me to leave with it. in a few, I would leave it with the bartender when I came in, and pick it up when I left.
One had no problem at all,, The owner said he appreciated that I carried mine openly,, (most concealed theirs illegally). And he showed me where the house guns were located,,,in case I ever needed to know.
I never had or saw any problems in that bar.

[pcosmar]

I dont like the idea of guns and alcohol, but thats probably because Ive worked at a busy bar in a college town and deal with idiots on a daily basis.

Idiots do not last long in an armed bar.

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms have always gone together.
If you can't handle one,,you likely can't handle the others.

[pcosmar]

My perspective on things changed once I accepted that someone like Toby Keith is basically an actor. His image and music has nothing to do with his personal politics and who he is as a person and it never did. He's a media commercial creation.

Wag the Dog.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyyuvNB2Pg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v4ZLwevXAI

[brushfire]

Bringing a gun into a bar is idiotic

So is driving a car to a bar (or pickup for that matter). Am I right? Cause people have such little self control, and alcohol impairs judgement - they may drive their vehicle through the bar or find school children to run over. Why do bars even have parking lots?

There are states which do allow carry in bars. There's no evidience to suggest an increase in violence in those states, and quite often there is a reduction.

Having said all this, if a 2nd amendment hater doesn't want folks to carry on his property, its his choice to make. Let the people vote with their dollars.

[FSU63]

Why so many butthurt people? It's his private property.

[pcosmar]

Why so many butthurt people? It's his private property.

No Butthurt. I would not patronize the place to start with.

I don't care for his warmongering propaganda,, and I don't care for "trendy" bars.

I do support and advocate for the 2nd amendment, despite being denied those rights myself.

[GunnyFreedom]

Why so many butthurt people? It's his private property.

Sure is! He has every right to prohibit the carry of firearms on his property, and we have every right to ridicule his hoplophobic posterior and to refuse to do business with the coward and encourage others likewise. :)

[Origanalist]

My husband runs a sports bar (25 years in the business) and the only problem he's ever had in all those years was from (drum roll please) an off duty cop. He brandished his weapon at another guy for checkin out his girl, my husband said the scariest part was the guy wasn't even drunk (they were sharing a pitcher of beer and it was still 1/2 full).

Can't handle himself or his liquor.

[TomKat]

Why on earth would you let lawfully owned firearms carried by lawful individuals into your establishment? That would be un 'merican!! Pre-crime is the essense of 'merica!! USA!! USA!!

[matt0611]

Sure is! He has every right to prohibit the carry of firearms on his property, and we have every right to ridicule his hoplophobic posterior and to refuse to do business with the coward and encourage others likewise. :)

Its funny, when it comes to the second amendment its "his property" but if it were any other issue (not serving a particular type of person etc) well then that's just "immoral" and "wrong" and needs to be outlawed. :D

[Christian Liberty]

Wow. I have eaten at at a Toby Keith restaurant once. Got a free burger and fries for being in the military. Thought that was pretty awesome and planned to return to visit it...NOT NOW! Thanks for the free meal tyrants! Go suck it!

I fail to see how that's any better than being given a free burger and fries for being white, yet there would be an outcry over that. Actually, its worse. White people do not collectively choose to go overseas and kill for the government.

How do mercenaries like yourself look yourselves in the mirror? Especially since you post here. You know the wars are evil. You know that you could be asked to kill or be killed for something you don't believe in. Yet you still do it. Why?

[Christian Liberty]

Its funny, when it comes to the second amendment its "his property" but if it were any other issue (not serving a particular type of person etc) well then that's just "immoral" and "wrong" and needs to be outlawed. :D

I think Gunny would say the same thing about any other kind of discrimination. But you're right, most people lack any and all spine and do not believe in private property rights.

BTW: I just noticed the "Moms Demand Action" name, considering I was recently discussing with Eric Peters about how "The Mom" became a viable political force in the 80's, making us worse off for it.

[matt0611]

I think Gunny would say the same thing about any other kind of discrimination. But you're right, most people lack any and all spine and do not believe in private property rights.

BTW: I just noticed the "Moms Demand Action" name, considering I was recently discussing with Eric Peters about how "The Mom" became a viable political force in the 80's, making us worse off for it.

Oh I know he would, I would too.

My comment was more aimed at leftists / statists who might rejoice at this and claim that it is "his right, because its his private property" (which I agree with) and then turn around and tell him to do with his private property by force of law when it comes to something else.

[Christian Liberty]

Oh I know he would, I would too.

My comment was more aimed at leftists / statists who might rejoice at this and claim that it is "his right, because its his private property" (which I agree with) and then turn around and tell him to do with his private property by force of law when it comes to something else.

OK, fair enough. Just wanted to make sure you didn't think Gunny actually disagreed with what you said.

[GunnyFreedom]

Its funny, when it comes to the second amendment its "his property" but if it were any other issue (not serving a particular type of person etc) well then that's just "immoral" and "wrong" and needs to be outlawed. :D

LOL I don't think you know me that well. :p

Property is property. As free sovereigns we ought to have the right to restrict access to our property however we want. I feel the same way about this as I feel about restaurants who discriminate based on race, gender, religion, whatever. I figure the free market is strong enough to shame such people into change or bankruptcy. FF is right in #45; my principle for this is identical to my principle for the other. I am nothing if not philosophically consistent. :)

[GunnyFreedom]

Oh I know he would, I would too.

My comment was more aimed at leftists / statists who might rejoice at this and claim that it is "his right, because its his private property" (which I agree with) and then turn around and tell him to do with his private property by force of law when it comes to something else.

Ahh! Ok lol :)

[jmdrake]

I'm surprised nobody went here yet...

http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc334/NJHockeyKid/Motivational%20Poster/FUTK.jpg

[HOLLYWOOD]

Tax Writeoff...

http://lvlocals.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TobyKeiths.jpghttp://www.johnnygoodtimes.com/archives/futk_natimage.gif

http://happynicetimepeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/20110209_00251.jpg

[enhanced_deficit]

My perspective on things changed once I accepted that someone like Toby Keith is basically an actor. His image and music has nothing to do with his personal politics and who he is as a person and it never did. He's a media commercial creation. I don't know much about his history but anyone that thought he was some gun totin country rebel simply fell for his schtick and are now angry about how stupid they feel when "his" restaurant won't let them do what they thought he supported.

Reminds me of Dr. Dre saying during interviews that he wasn't a "gangsta" and never did any of the stuff in his music but he gave people what they wanted. His financial backers had an agenda behind the promotion of his music so it was win-win.


But deep down, is Toby Keith a neocon?

Toby Keith Praises Obama, Says He's A Democrat - Huffington Post (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2008%2F0 8%2F19%2Ftoby-keith-praises-obama_n_119930.html&ei=_TzBUvLTKcW6kQf1-IDQAg&usg=AFQjCNFL6boGKQJo6x2SfGt0VtYysYOkBA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0)

[dillo]

Idiots do not last long in an armed bar.

Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms have always gone together.
If you can't handle one,,you likely can't handle the others.


If someone gets shot in the bar I work at, the bar is going to get sued to death.

[satchelmcqueen]

another hypocrite claiming one thing in his songs and interviews while doing another. i not only carry at times, i also have 2 machettes in my jeep at all times. never know when a "tree might fall" or someone needs me to survey their land.

[HOLLYWOOD]

But deep down, is Toby Keith a neocon?

Toby Keith Praises Obama, Says He's A Democrat - Huffington Post (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2008%2F0 8%2F19%2Ftoby-keith-praises-obama_n_119930.html&ei=_TzBUvLTKcW6kQf1-IDQAg&usg=AFQjCNFL6boGKQJo6x2SfGt0VtYysYOkBA&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0)HuffPo playing false dichotomy... AGAIN?

Does phony party meme even matter anymore in the Propaganda State of America?

http://moraymint.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/dictatorship1.jpg

[pcosmar]

If someone gets shot in the bar I work at, the bar is going to get sued to death.

If I shoot someone in a bar,, it will be because they deserved to be shot.
And it would be my responsibility.

Same as if I shoot them anywhere else.

[kahless]

I am really not sure what to make of it. I can understand the insurance rates affecting the bottom line and having your own regulations in place to limit the costs from any lawsuit should some accident occur. If someone brings a gun into the bar anyway and it goes off, you would have a good case of liability being with the offender rather than the bar because of the no gun rule policy.

If they are trying to make some political statement why go out of your way to piss off your fans and customers. That is about as wacky as Cracker Barrel appealing to the minority of their gay customers while pissing off the majority of their customer base.

If I owned the bar it would not occur to me to do this unless there had been recurring problems in the bar. Was it really that much of a problem they had to have an outright ban? I think a better solution would been to have the guns checked at the bar rather than an outright ban if there were problems or incidents in the bar involving gun play.

I have also seen way too many out of control drunks in bars that cannot be reasoned with. Add a weapon into the mix, oh boy. Guns and alcohol, drunks in bars are a pretty bad mix in my opinion. Not something you want to have to deal with as an employee, manager or owner on a daily basis.

[Neil Desmond]

:eek: I live only a mile away from it.

[Uriel999]

I fail to see how that's any better than being given a free burger and fries for being white, yet there would be an outcry over that. Actually, its worse. White people do not collectively choose to go overseas and kill for the government.

How do mercenaries like yourself look yourselves in the mirror? Especially since you post here. You know the wars are evil. You know that you could be asked to kill or be killed for something you don't believe in. Yet you still do it. Why?

I'd gladly take a free burger and fries for being white too. Are you offering?

[Anti Federalist]

I'd gladly take a free burger and fries for being white too. Are you offering?

Nicely played. +rep

[devil21]

What?! Dr.Dre ain't a gangsta? Is he at least a real Dr.? ;)

Nope. He's a Mason and a hell of a businessman though.

Off topic from Toby Keith but speaking of gangsta rap, this explains an example of the backdoor agendas behind music.

Music Industry Exec claims gangsta rap was purposely promoted to fill up the new "private prison for profit" model.
http://www.reason4rhymes.com/2013/03/hip-hop-news/music-industry-exec-says-gangsta-rap-is-designed-to-send-black-people-to-prison/


Quickly after the meeting began, one of my industry colleagues (who shall remain nameless like everyone else) thanked us for attending. He then gave the floor to a man who only introduced himself by first name and gave no further details about his personal background. I think he was the owner of the residence but it was never confirmed. He briefly praised all of us for the success we had achieved in our industry and congratulated us for being selected as part of this small group of “decision makers”. At this point I begin to feel slightly uncomfortable at the strangeness of this gathering.

The subject quickly changed as the speaker went on to tell us that the respective companies we represented had invested in a very profitable industry which could become even more rewarding with our active involvement. He explained that the companies we work for had invested millions into the building of privately owned prisons and that our positions of influence in the music industry would actually impact the profitability of these investments. I remember many of us in the group immediately looking at each other in confusion. At the time, I didn’t know what a private prison was but I wasn’t the only one. much more at link worth a read

[Christian Liberty]

I'd gladly take a free burger and fries for being white too. Are you offering?

No, I'm not offering, but you have a point. My point stands though. You're still active in the military (or were very recently). You know (Or at least, I'm presuming you do, because you post here) that the wars have nothing to do with "protecting america" or "our freedom" or anything like that. What do you do in the military? How do you justify it, knowing what you know? Do you consider yourself heroic because you wear a uniform for the government?

That said, maybe my original response was too harsh. I'll have to think on it. I'm actually curious what Gunny thinks here as well. I get really frustrated with all the military and police worship that goes on, considering how precious little of what either group does actually has anything to do with liberty. The military is even worse though, because its much more likely that you'll be ordered to outright KILL someone who isn't a threat to you, which is even worse than stealing from or kidnapping them. On the other hand, obviously a lot of people haven't thought about it that way, and what happened after Vietnam wasn't exactly a Christian way of handling it either... even if I'd prefer that to what we have now.



Nicely played. +rep

I don't think I'd take it. I don't see how I could do so in good conscience. It would be rewarding racism. Now, of course, a person has a right to do that. I'm not disputing that. I just don't think I could personally take advantage of.

The "veteran" discounts are even worse though, because it rewards an activity that is intrinsically bad (willingly signing up to kill and die for the State). Whereas being white (or black, or whatever) is morally neutral.

[Uriel999]

No, I'm not offering, but you have a point. My point stands though. You're still active in the military (or were very recently). You know (Or at least, I'm presuming you do, because you post here) that the wars have nothing to do with "protecting america" or "our freedom" or anything like that. What do you do in the military? How do you justify it, knowing what you know? Do you consider yourself heroic because you wear a uniform for the government?

That said, maybe my original response was too harsh. I'll have to think on it. I'm actually curious what Gunny thinks here as well. I get really frustrated with all the military and police worship that goes on, considering how precious little of what either group does actually has anything to do with liberty. The military is even worse though, because its much more likely that you'll be ordered to outright KILL someone who isn't a threat to you, which is even worse than stealing from or kidnapping them. On the other hand, obviously a lot of people haven't thought about it that way, and what happened after Vietnam wasn't exactly a Christian way of handling it either... even if I'd prefer that to what we have now.




I don't think I'd take it. I don't see how I could do so in good conscience. It would be rewarding racism. Now, of course, a person has a right to do that. I'm not disputing that. I just don't think I could personally take advantage of.

The "veteran" discounts are even worse though, because it rewards an activity that is intrinsically bad (willingly signing up to kill and die for the State). Whereas being white (or black, or whatever) is morally neutral.

I am still current active duty. I have two years on my contract but am hoping to get a year cut off my contract. I am an 0311 which is essentially an armed janitor (infantry). I clean the shit out of my barracks weekly. Last deployment I spent half of it doing laundry for the ship I was on when I wasn't busy cleaning the ship itseld. I did get to spend a month in Kuwait loving life though. Eating Taco Bell in a sandstorm was pretty sweet (no actually really I pretty fondly remember that experience as well that was the first Taco Bell I had seen in 4 or 5 months!).

I am no hero. I never claimed to be. As far as my service is concerned why I joined is none of your business but I promise you that you'd probably have your mind blown why I ended up in the military, how I have woken up many service members, connected with others, and how quite frankly you really don't get Marines cause if you did...

[HOLLYWOOD]

Right On man... There's a reason Ron Paul received more campaign donations from military members than every other candidate in both parties combined in the 2012 presidential run. Keep fighting the fight and communicating with fellow members on what's really the truth. I do the same at VFW halls, general public associations/rallies/protests, and Tea Party meetings.

Always prep for the future and use every bit of that GI Bill if/when you get out. ;)



I am still current active duty. I have two years on my contract but am hoping to get a year cut off my contract. I am an 0311 which is essentially an armed janitor (infantry). I clean the shit out of my barracks weekly. Last deployment I spent half of it doing laundry for the ship I was on when I wasn't busy cleaning the ship itseld. I did get to spend a month in Kuwait loving life though. Eating Taco Bell in a sandstorm was pretty sweet (no actually really I pretty fondly remember that experience as well that was the first Taco Bell I had seen in 4 or 5 months!).

I am no hero. I never claimed to be. As far as my service is concerned why I joined is none of your business but I promise you that you'd probably have your mind blown why I ended up in the military, how I have woken up many service members, connected with others, and how quite frankly you really don't get Marines cause if you did...

[GunnyFreedom]

No, I'm not offering, but you have a point. My point stands though. You're still active in the military (or were very recently). You know (Or at least, I'm presuming you do, because you post here) that the wars have nothing to do with "protecting america" or "our freedom" or anything like that. What do you do in the military? How do you justify it, knowing what you know? Do you consider yourself heroic because you wear a uniform for the government?

That said, maybe my original response was too harsh. I'll have to think on it. I'm actually curious what Gunny thinks here as well.

I think it's easy to mock and scorn what you do not understand. I think that after the collapse and coming into the impending tribulation, every nation, state, county, and neighborhood will be beset by war, and that (specifically) Marine Veterans will largely signify hope in an otherwise despairing world. I think one day after that America has gone to hades in a handbasket with your back in a corner and all hope seeming lost, that you will weep with joy and gratitude at sound of the words "I am a US Marine," grateful in the knowledge that while you will certainly die, it will probably not be today. I think you have a completely and utterly distorted view of most military service, and particularly that of the Marine Corps, and I know that I avoid engaging in this conversation because experience tells me that with one so fixed on this construction, that every form of discussion only leads to hardened hearts and stiffened necks.


I get really frustrated with all the military and police worship that goes on,

Interestingly, as a group military veterans are the least likely persons in America to engage in that practice.


considering how precious little of what either group does actually has anything to do with liberty. The military is even worse though, because its much more likely that you'll be ordered to outright KILL someone who isn't a threat to you, which is even worse than stealing from or kidnapping them. On the other hand, obviously a lot of people haven't thought about it that way, and what happened after Vietnam wasn't exactly a Christian way of handling it either... even if I'd prefer that to what we have now.




I don't think I'd take it. I don't see how I could do so in good conscience. It would be rewarding racism. Now, of course, a person has a right to do that. I'm not disputing that. I just don't think I could personally take advantage of.

Making a jackass poorer on account of his own stupidity is pretty much an axiom of God. Would you refuse the honor of being an instrument of His will?


The "veteran" discounts are even worse though, because it rewards an activity that is intrinsically bad (willingly signing up to kill and die for the State). Whereas being white (or black, or whatever) is morally neutral.

[Christian Liberty]

I think it's easy to mock and scorn what you do not understand. I think that after the collapse and coming into the impending tribulation, every nation, state, county, and neighborhood will be beset by war, and that (specifically) Marine Veterans will largely signify hope in an otherwise despairing world. I think one day after that America has gone to hades in a handbasket with your back in a corner and all hope seeming lost, that you will weep with joy and gratitude at sound of the words "I am a US Marine," grateful in the knowledge that while you will certainly die, it will probably not be today.

I have no doubt that that's the truth. I have no doubt if there was ever a war HERE those skills would be extremely useful. I don't see how that excuses agreeing to go "Over there" if the government tells you to do so. And I don't see how you could be a Marine without agreeing to do so, or at least to support it.

I think you have a completely and utterly distorted view of most military service, and particularly that of the Marine Corps,

What am I missing?

Just out of curiosity, have you read any of what Laurence Vance has written about the military? What was your opinion of what he has said?


and I know that I avoid engaging in this conversation because experience tells me that with one so fixed on this construction, that every form of discussion only leads to hardened hearts and stiffened necks.


I'm honestly not sure what you mean by this, at all. I'm confused. What are you trying to say here?

BTW: considering you are someone who both did work for the Marines, and was also one of the most liberty minded politicians EVER, I certainly respect anything you have to add to this topic.



Interestingly, as a group military veterans are the least likely persons in America to engage in that practice.


That's true. I've pointed this out before. I do wonder why they accept the praise when they generally know they don't deserve it and don't demand it themselves, but maybe that's just another one of those things I don't understand. It seems more likely to me that its social pressure, however.



Making a jackass poorer on account of his own stupidity is pretty much an axiom of God.
What do you mean?



Would you refuse the honor of being an instrument of His will?

No. Not sure what you're getting at here, however.


I am still current active duty. I have two years on my contract but am hoping to get a year cut off my contract. I am an 0311 which is essentially an armed janitor (infantry). I clean the shit out of my barracks weekly. Last deployment I spent half of it doing laundry for the ship I was on when I wasn't busy cleaning the ship itseld. I did get to spend a month in Kuwait loving life though. Eating Taco Bell in a sandstorm was pretty sweet (no actually really I pretty fondly remember that experience as well that was the first Taco Bell I had seen in 4 or 5 months!).

I am no hero. I never claimed to be. As far as my service is concerned why I joined is none of your business but I promise you that you'd probably have your mind blown why I ended up in the military, how I have woken up many service members, connected with others, and how quite frankly you really don't get Marines cause if you did...

I'm actually really curious, because it seems to me like you joined AFTER you were awake, and I'm curious why anyone would do that. I'm also extremely surprised that you are actually able to "wake anyone up."

Are you in a position where you could be ordered to kill a person in a foreign country? If you were, how would you respond?

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm actually really curious, because it seems to me like you joined AFTER you were awake, and I'm curious why anyone would do that. I'm also extremely surprised that you are actually able to "wake anyone up."

Are you in a position where you could be ordered to kill a person in a foreign country? If you were, how would you respond?
Why would someone take student loans (and to be clear, people die for this funny money, world reserve, scheme to be maintained year after year) after they were awoken?

Presumably to better themselves.

Quit acting so damned righteous.

[Origanalist]

Why would someone take student loans (and to be clear, people die for this funny money, world reserve, scheme to be maintained year after year) after they were awoken?

Presumably to better themselves.

Quit acting so damned righteous.

No shit, give it a rest. Not everyone who joined the military did so because they wanted to go slaughter innocent people.

[Christian Liberty]

No shit, give it a rest. Not everyone who joined the military did so because they wanted to go slaughter innocent people.

Of course not, but the reality is that you might be expected to do so, as part of your job. You are expected to comply, or be branded "traitor".

I've defended my position on student loans, or other government money, before. I see no good reason to do so again.

[jmdrake]

Sure is! He has every right to prohibit the carry of firearms on his property, and we have every right to ridicule his hoplophobic posterior and to refuse to do business with the coward and encourage others likewise. :)

Hoplophobe? I's learned a new word! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplophobia

I'd love to see this used in a debate against Piers Morgan and watch his head explode. "Piers, you're nothing but a hoplophobe!"

[MelissaWV]

...

I'm actually really curious, because it seems to me like you joined AFTER you were awake, and I'm curious why anyone would do that. I'm also extremely surprised that you are actually able to "wake anyone up."

Are you in a position where you could be ordered to kill a person in a foreign country? If you were, how would you respond?

Is it that your own bias tells you military folks are too stupid to learn new facts, or that you're actually ignorant of how many military and ex-military supported Ron?

[kcchiefs6465]

Of course not, but the reality is that you might be expected to do so, as part of your job. You are expected to comply, or be branded "traitor".

I've defended my position on student loans, or other government money, before. I see no good reason to do so again.
You didn't defend anything. You provided excuses. The sanctions, bombs, and war machine are needed to secure this system of illusory credit and to maintain our status as the world's reserve currency. That cheap credit, which you may argue as free, came with a price. Frankly speaking it is blood money. What do you think the ones you despise are doing over there? Peas in the same pod.