Legality of projecting an image?

[Noble]

Does anyone know the legality of projecting an image (large) onto a building you do not own, and for which you have no owner consent?

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to rent a large projector, maybe even a laser projector, and projecting a Ron Paul ad onto the side of a monument or large building in Iowa/NH.

Like this, but with more Ron Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWcAkxzkv4

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/396083888_878b38cf68.jpg

[Flirple]

I don't know but I've thought about the same thing. This seems like a huge opportunity that we have not taken advantage of. And if there are private property rights issues with buildings surely we can locate good sites to project a rEVOLution logo onto like a large rock face or water tower for example. Ideally the building you use would be symbolic. Like the US mint for example. Imagine a rEVOLution logo on the side of a beautiful white D.C. building or monument!

[Noble]

Exactly, and compared to the cost of... oh... lets say a blimp... projector rental is relatively cheap.

Who are some good activists in those states I can get in touch with? People who are in charge or who I know I can trust to follow up if the funds are actually raised?

Oh, I just thought... if its projected on a public building... maybe it could be considered free speech

[Flirple]

Do you know what the capabilities of the projectors that you have in mind are? How far away can they project? Does it have to be real close to the surface you are projecting onto or are they powerful enough that you can be a good distance away? I know the equipment used in the picture in your original post is rather advanced and costly and involves special technology but in the video I saw of that they were projecting from a good distance away from the buildings.

If we could get this to happen it would be epic.

[Noble]

The video showed a pretty much standard 5000 ANSI Lumens projector.

The special hardware was only there to make it an interactive installation.
The special hardware was there to allow them to "draw" interactively using a laser pointer. If you wanted to project a video or a static image, you could use an off the shelf (albeit powerful) projector.

If theres a good response to the idea from someone in one of the important states, I'll call projector rental places, get prices, nail down all the specifics and see if I can raise some money.

[Johnnybags]

some places ask a permit and building owners should give permission. Some projectors go more than 200ft. Rental is cheap comparatively. A Derksen top of the line goes about 200 ft at night. Typically they cost 10k to buy. A couple grand to have someone do it for you with a professional glass gobo. You can do it yourself off your garage with a 10.00 Christmas projector off EBAY and a tranparency printed off your computer. It would be great to beam off the side of the Boston Federal reserve building which faces highway traffic and has a perfect color gray for image projection.


FYI, 55,000 lumens to 110,000 from a metal halide 700w or 1200w lamp is what the big guns use.

[Smiley Gladhands]

I'd chip in.

[Noble]

Okay, who should I contact in these battleground states to see if they're interested in getting this going?

the meetup groups?

Also, I'm gonna need help figuring out what buildings to project onto.

[Noble]

Don't leave me hanging now forums... help me connect with some people in those battleground states.

[BLS]

Does anyone know the legality of projecting an image (large) onto a building you do not own, and for which you have no owner consent?

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to rent a large projector, maybe even a laser projector, and projecting a Ron Paul ad onto the side of a monument or large building in Iowa/NH.

Like this, but with more Ron Paul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWcAkxzkv4

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/396083888_878b38cf68.jpg


Do it onto a taxpayer funded sports stadium.
If they tell you you can't display it, tell em you paid for it.

[jake]

imagine a projection onto a building in every major city across the country? :)

[Noble]

So... to rent a slightly *more powerful* projector than the one shown in the first post would cost $949 per day, $2847 per week.

http://www.meetingtomorrow.com/category/large-venue-projector-rentals1

I'm sure this is doable! Look at how large that building is in the first picture!

[Noble]

Okay I'm joining the ohio meetup groups.

Anyone want to help me design/put up a website?

[McDermit]

How do you run a projector without access to a home/business power line?

I have a couple video projectors and a giant 16' inflatable screen. I'd love to be able to stick one out along the highway or something for a couple hours every evening, just playing mini clips. But I've yet to figure out how to power it.

[Noble]

Rent a generator or get a local business to agree to let you use their power.

Probably rent a generator.

[The Plan]

I think there could be liability issues when it comes to using a lazer that powerful. If somebody looked out the window all of the sudden to see where that green light was coming from they might be blinded.
Put some research into it before you do it.

[Noble]

We're talking about standard bulb projectors... used on mostly vacant buildings at night.

Lasers are cool, but probably not feasible, due to price, rarity, and as you said, liability.

[Flirple]

I think there could be liability issues when it comes to using a lazer that powerful. If somebody looked out the window all of the sudden to see where that green light was coming from they might be blinded.
Put some research into it before you do it.

We don't need to use the laser setup like in the original picture. We just need to use the projector without the laser and feedback software. Just a projector and an image.

[Noble]

As for the image, I figure we burn a dvd and bring a cheapo dvd player to run off the same power supply that feeds the projector.

Easy peasy. No computers to worry about or complicated setup.

[adpierce]

Even if you did it on a public building they'll claim that it's not a free speech zone, and they'd win in the courts. Don't do it would be my recommendation. If you could get permission from a private business to do this (you'd probably have to pay money) you could pull it off. However I don't know what kind of projector would be needed to pull something of this scale off it's luminen output would have to enormous and not something you'd find just anywhere.

[Flirple]

...It would be great to beam off the side of the Boston Federal reserve building which faces highway traffic and has a perfect color gray for image projection.

Indeed. This would be a perfect projection screen. Especially on, say, oh I don't know, Dec. 16th?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/FederalReserveBankBuildingBoston.jpg/400px-FederalReserveBankBuildingboston.jpg

[constituent]

Indeed. This would be a perfect projection screen. Especially on, say, oh I don't know, Dec. 16th?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/FederalReserveBankBuildingBoston.jpg/400px-FederalReserveBankBuildingboston.jpg

wow. a giant canvass.

[Johnnybags]

of 55,000 to 110,000 lumens for it to look fabulous. Google Derksen. Not an indoor one at 5000 lumens. There are companies who will do to for you. Either that or order one with a custom gobo and ship it around the country for Paul events. 7 to 10k cost. Derksen will tell you exactly what is needed and how much. You can plug into an office or apartment across the street from the target by paying someone a few bucks. Or get creative and make mobile with power inverters or generators.


http://www.derksen.com/outdoors.html


If you are all serious, lets chip in and buy one.

[Johnnybags]

high powered to see if they rent or if not how much they are. It would be hillarious sending it from city to city beaming Paul for President in 8 foot letters.

[Flirple]

wow. a giant canvass.

Can you just imagine the following...

On Dec. 16th "Abolish the Fed - Ron Paul rEVOLution" is projected on one side and the fundraising thermometer is projected on the other side of the Boston Federal Reserve Bank. Faneuil Hall is overflowing with Ron Paul revolutionaries and overhead the Ron Paul Blimp is dumping federal reserve notes into the harbor all the meanwhile Ron is raising millions online?!

[Noble]

I'm personally very serious, but not flush with cash, I'd need alot of help to organize a purchase of a device like this.

After I get out of work today at 4, I'll start making calls to compare the price of renting vs buying for multiple locations.

[MikeStanart]

I love this idea!

I /approve this idea!

[Noble]

If we buy it, we could sell it off after the election and donate it to some worthy cause.

[Johnnybags]

If I remember correctly the top model is somewhere between 7 and 10k. It would be worth it if we shipped it around the country. I am sure a chipin would be successful.

[Noble]

We will need a legitimate treasurer.... just like the blimp group

[troyd1]

Throw this project in with the blimp fund and have someone project from the blimp. This would be way cool! Could you see the blimp projecting Welcome to the Tea Party! Liberty, Freedom, Prosperity, Support Ron Paul!

[Mark Rushmore]

Throw this project in with the blimp fund and have someone project from the blimp. This would be way cool! Could you see the blimp projecting Welcome to the Tea Party! Liberty, Freedom, Prosperity, Support Ron Paul!

I agree that the blimp should be 'armed' in some form - but I can't imagine it holding steady enough for this thing ;).

[Noble]

So now we need to...

get prices on
1) Renting a giant outdoor projector
2) Buying a giant outdoor projector.

Once we have that, we can figure out the fundraising goal and...

3) Build a Website and start a chipin

4) Also we need to identify which buildings would be our targets

5) Also we need some PEOPLE in Iowa and NH who can actually go and set it up!

I LIVE IN TEXAS!

I'd love to go around and set this up, especially it'd be cool to tour with the blimp, but I wouldn't be able to pay my rent if I left for a month or more.

Its really looking like we can do this and generate some serious publicity, maybe even international publicity, for less than what Dr Paul raises in a normal day.

[Johnnybags]

So now we need to...

get prices on
1) Renting a giant outdoor projector
2) Buying a giant outdoor projector.

Once we have that, we can figure out the fundraising goal and...

3) Build a Website and start a chipin

4) Also we need to identify which buildings would be our targets

5) Also we need some PEOPLE in Iowa and NH who can actually go and set it up!

I LIVE IN TEXAS!

I'd love to go around and set this up, especially it'd be cool to tour with the blimp, but I wouldn't be able to pay my rent if I left for a month or more.

Its really looking like we can do this and generate some serious publicity, maybe even international publicity, for less than what Dr Paul raises in a normal day.



My guess is an offer 25 percent below might buy it. So its 5 grand for a new one, then you need a gobo or two, (glass) to make it beam professionally. Not a bad bang for the buck.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-MOTION-1200-MULTI-FORMAT-IMAGE-PROJECTOR_W0QQitemZ110189698660QQihZ001QQcategoryZ 14984QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

or its big brother:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PRO-MOTION-2000-MULTI-FORMAT-IMAGE-PROJECTOR_W0QQitemZ110197437116QQihZ001QQcategoryZ 14984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[adpierce]

I'm saying it once again because you don't seem to understand my point. You cannot do this on a public building. They will not allow you to do this, they will claim that it is not a traditional public forum and therefore despite it being public property it is not a free speech zone. If you do this the police will stop you and you may face a court case. I am not joking... if you want to do this you must get permission from a private building owner to use it in this fashion or you may face serious repercussions.

[MikeStanart]

I was in the car earlier and thought this...


Remember, we need to target audiences!

If it's night; there won't be as many people out.....

UNLESS:
We pick a day like "New Years Eve"!!!!!!

Imagine the ball dropping in New York, and right behind it....

A "Ron Paul for President" plastered up on the building in the background.

Imagine the Millions of Viewers seeing it!
That my friends; would be Legendary.

[Noble]

Can you provide us with any statutes or anything like that?

Its not destructive, so I don't see what they would charge us with.

Its not disruptive. All you have suggested is that simply acting on my right to free speech will get me arrested.

I'll be doing research after I get out of work today, but if you could provide me with some more concrete information as to what you suspect we would be charged with, I'd really appreciate it.



More about actually going ahead with this idea...
Those projectors retail for $6362 and $8402 on that ebay seller's website...
The bulbs are relatively inexpensive ($170 for 1000 hours on the Pro-motion 1200)

Looks like we could set both up and run them every night until the primaries for under $20,000 retail.

here's another picture...
http://www.bulbamerica.com/photos/products/5/53/535/ProMotionEff1.jpg

[Kalash]

I'm saying it once again because you don't seem to understand my point. You cannot do this on a public building. They will not allow you to do this, they will claim that it is not a traditional public forum and therefore despite it being public property it is not a free speech zone. If you do this the police will stop you and you may face a court case. I am not joking... if you want to do this you must get permission from a private building owner to use it in this fashion or you may face serious repercussions.



I don't think getting permission from SOMEONE in each city would be a problem.

And the stadiums - people have protested outside them, handed out fliers...
I'd say it's a traditional forum.


Tradition shouldn't matter.
First amendment rights...
Not privileges.

If it's public property, the public has a right to use it.
We'll just say it's reverse eminent domain...
We paid for it - it's ours.

Your attempt to STEAL it from us - take it out of our control is CRIMINAL and we will counter-sue you - as well as file formal criminal complaints against you.



Privately owned buildings - Just ask permission.
It's free publicity for the building.

Be sure to put that in there.

"You know how many loony Ron Paul cultists there are online that will have pictures of YOUR building EVERYWHERE on the web? Can you REALLY tell me you DO NOT want that kind of FREE publicity? We won't charge you for the publicity your building gets, you don't charge us for allowing us to shine a light on your building. You're not out anything - we're not HURTING anything... And you get some free publicity. Can you really turn that kind of an offer down?"


You also need to think about WHERE you'll be projecting FROM.
If you have a generator - that could be in violation of city codes...
If you're posting on a sidewalk - you could be arrested for blocking the sidewalk.

You'll really need permission from 2 building owners - the projection building and the projectee building.

[Johnnybags]

from private property owners. Many places have no statutes but some require a permit. Its no big deal, I think in Boston its a 100.00 fine for advertising without a permit. Regardless, a building owner would normally have no problem. The cops have nothing to do with it in a private agreement. The worst that could happen is you have broken an ordinance and pay 100.00 fine. Might as well do it all legal, get the permit and permission. Unless its your property and then do what you wish.

[Kalash]

from private property owners. Many places have no statutes but some require a permit. Its no big deal, I think in Boston its a 100.00 fine for advertising without a permit. Regardless, a building owner would normally have no problem. The cops have nothing to do with it in a private agreement. The worst that could happen is you have broken an ordinance and pay 100.00 fine. Might as well do it all legal, get the permit and permission. Unless its your property and then do what you wish.



Get permission from the owners - screw the advertising ordnances/license.

You don't need it.
It's free speech.

Just don't freak out about getting a ticket and having to go to court.
http://www.outlawslegal.com/C00/C03.htm

There's more caselaw out there.
The law is on your side.

Free speech cannot be licensed.
You're not "advertising" so much as making a statement.

Part of your statement is that free speech should be free.

You might need a lawyer - I'd ask for a pro-bono one once you get your site up and running.

Failing all else, you can wait till the ticket (maybe) comes, then petition LawyerDude to write motions for you.
http://www.lawyerdude.8m.com/

He specializes in license/malum prohibitum crimes.

[adpierce]

It's Constitutional Law, if you haven't taken a Con. Law class I'd highly recommend it if not for any other purpose than to understand exactly what the Supreme Court has done that you can be pissed about.

I'm sorry if it's public property according to current Constitutional Law you can't use it however you want. It's irrelevant that it was paid from your tax dollars you can't even have your case heard by any court on that basis absent some kind of strong link tying you personally to how the tax dollars are being spent. (Frothingham v. Mellon, 1923)

Read International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc. v. Lee if you want to understand the distinctions between how the the different types of public forums are applied different types of standard under the law. Traditional public forums are sidewalks... parks, places where people have been traditionally been able to speak their mind without restraint. You can do whatever you want in those places. The side of a building is not a public forum. It may become a designated public forum for a time.... with permission from it's owner, but there's no way in hell you can argue that you have rights to put up whatever you want on the side of a public building just because it's public. They might even call it defacement of public property even though it's not permanent you took a piece of public land and you "defaced it" for your private gain. Again I repeat do not attempt this without explicit written consent from the owner of the building.

It is a bigger deal than you might realize, your first amendment rights aren't as protected as you might think. Make certain you have all the permits and contracts necessary to be able to do this before you attempt anything like this.


I don't think getting permission from SOMEONE in each city would be a problem.

And the stadiums - people have protested outside them, handed out fliers...
I'd say it's a traditional forum.


Tradition shouldn't matter.
First amendment rights...
Not privileges.

If it's public property, the public has a right to use it.
We'll just say it's reverse eminent domain...
We paid for it - it's ours.

Your attempt to STEAL it from us - take it out of our control is CRIMINAL and we will counter-sue you - as well as file formal criminal complaints against you.



Privately owned buildings - Just ask permission.
It's free publicity for the building.

Be sure to put that in there.

"You know how many loony Ron Paul cultists there are online that will have pictures of YOUR building EVERYWHERE on the web? Can you REALLY tell me you DO NOT want that kind of FREE publicity? We won't charge you for the publicity your building gets, you don't charge us for allowing us to shine a light on your building. You're not out anything - we're not HURTING anything... And you get some free publicity. Can you really turn that kind of an offer down?"


You also need to think about WHERE you'll be projecting FROM.
If you have a generator - that could be in violation of city codes...
If you're posting on a sidewalk - you could be arrested for blocking the sidewalk.

You'll really need permission from 2 building owners - the projection building and the projectee building.

[Benaiah]

It would be cool to have the projector at the next debate.

[Johnnybags]

http://www.batlight.net/batlight_pricing.html


Looks like 5 to 8 grand for a new high powered unit.

[ionlyknowy]

A possible Cause of Action could be the following:

Private Nuisance:

You cannot use your land in a fashion that damages your neighbor in some way.

Usually cases that have been brought in private nuisance are along the lines of...

You are producing a horrible smell on your property in a semi permanent fashion.
Your neighbor can bring a private nuisance action against you.

Or suppose you operate a business that causes vibration and it is felt by a neighbor.
Since all property owners have a right to the quiet enjoyment of their land, then this neighbor can bring a private nuisance.

Courts generally are willing to balance the public utility or use of the nuisance (in our case the lighted sign) against the damage done to the servient land (building).

I suspect in this case if you have done this at night when no one was in the building, then they can claim no damages. So unless the court rules that our activity is of no public use, then it weighs in our favor.

Now many cities have Statutes that regulate the aesthetics of the community.. and they are all different. So you might want to check these...

So all in all unless there is come statute or zoning rule that regulates this type of thing, then I would say that the private nuisance claim will not bar you from doing this if you make sure that the other party has NO damages.

[Noble]

I've emailed Ron Paul's legal counsel about this and I am waiting for a response.

[Johnnybags]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Selecon-Pacific-12-28-Deg-Zoom-Ellipsoidal-Stage-Light_W0QQitemZ270191507633QQihZ017QQcategoryZ2994 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

projector, you can use transparency prints from your printer and have a nice RP projection with plenty of Lumens. Not quite our 8000 one but would look beaming off a house, garage or building from 30-50 feet away. Its new as well. 200 bucks is real cheap. Sell it when your done.