1.3 Million Jobless Americans Lose Benefits Today

[DamianTV]

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/12/unemployment-benefits-to-end-saturday-for-1-3-million-jobless-americans-98588.html


WESTMINSTER, Calif. (AP) - The end of unemployment checks for more than a million people on Saturday is driving out-of-work Americans to consider selling cars, moving and taking minimum wage work after already slashing household budgets and pawning personal possessions to make ends meet.

Greg and Barbara Chastain of Huntington Beach, Calif., put their two teenagers on the school lunch program and cut back on dining out after losing their T-shirt company in June following a dispute with an investor. They've exhausted their state unemployment benefits and now that the federal extensions are gone, unless they find jobs the couple plans take their children out of their high school in January and relocate 50 miles east where a relative owns property so they can save on rent

"We could let one of our cars go, but then you can't get to work - it's a never-ending cycle," 43-year-old Greg Chastain said while accompanying his wife to an Orange County employment center. He said they eventually may try their luck in a less expensive state like Arizona or Texas if he can land a manufacturing job there.

The end to the five-year program that extended benefits for the long-term jobless affected 1.3 million people immediately and will affect hundreds of thousands more who remain jobless in the months ahead. Under the program, the federal government provided an average monthly stipend of $1,166.

While the Obama administration and Democrats in Congress want to continue the program, the extensions were dropped from a budget deal struck earlier this month and Republican lawmakers have balked at its $26 billion annual cost.

The end of the program may prompt a drop in the nation's unemployment rate, but not necessarily for a good reason. People out of work are required to look for work to receive unemployment benefits. As benefits disappear, some jobless will stop looking for work out of frustration and will no longer be counted as unemployed.

The trend has already emerged in North Carolina, which started cutting off extended benefits in July. The state's unemployment rate went down - from 8.8 percent in June to 7.4 percent in November- even though the number of North Carolinians who said they had jobs rose only slightly in that time.

The North Carolina evidence is consistent with the theory that ending benefits will cause some unemployed to drop out of the workforce, said Michael Feroli, an economist at JP Morgan Chase.

That's what Fed chairman Ben Bernanke meant when he said this month that the end of extended benefits "will bring the unemployment rate down, but for ... the wrong reason."

Some unemployed people said the loss of benefits might drive them to take minimum wage jobs to get by until they can find work at their skill level and in their field.

Richard Mattos, 59, of Salem, Ore., has been out of work since March, when he was laid off as a case manager at a social services organization. Without the unemployment income, Mattos said he and his wife will have enough money for one month's worth of bills. Almost every day, he visits employment centers run by the state of Oregon or Goodwill Industries International.

"I don't know what we're going to do," he said. "We could end up homeless because of this."

State Cut off Dec. 28 Cut off June 2014
District of Columbia 4,600 6,800
Virginia 9,700 31,900
Maryland 22,900 28,500

Since 2008, the federal program paid out benefits to the unemployed after their 26 weeks of state benefits ran out. At its peak, the program offered up to 73 weeks of federal benefits - which are typically offered during periods of high unemployment - to the long-term jobless.

James Sherk, a labor policy analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation, said ending the extensions could induce workers to take jobs they might have overlooked initially. Extended unemployment benefits can give workers "a false sense of how much time they have before they have to start broadening their net to less than ideal positions," he said, adding that the labor market, while not ideal, is stronger and continues to improve.

In November, the country's unemployment rate fell to a five-year low of 7 percent, but is still above the 5 percent to 6 percent rate that would signal a normal job market. And long-term unemployment remains a problem for the economy as nearly 4.1 million Americans have been out of work for six months or more.

Deborah Barrett, a 57-year-old resident of Newport, R.I., is one of them. She was laid off from her management job in accounting in February and has sent out hundreds of resumes since. She said doesn't know how she'll get by without the federal assistance.

"It's petrifying," she said. "Unfortunately, I don't believe my story is very unique."

Laura Garay, 57, pawned her jewelry, withdrew retirement funds and relied on support from friends after losing her paralegal job in May, the same month she was diagnosed with lymphoma.

Her monthly $1,700 in unemployment covers her house payment in Westminster and the cost of maintaining her health insurance to cover a barrage of exams and radiation therapy.

Garay said her illness set back her job search, but as long as she's healthy, she'll work at just about anything to get back on her feet and avoid being jobless for too long.

"You don't find a job in two weeks, you don't find a job in three weeks," she said. "You find a job after months of searching."

I have a strong suspicious feeling that we are about to receive a Half Truth News Report that says "Good News about the Economy" as Unemployment Rates have dropped. The Half Truth comes from the fact that the people who are Unemployed have NOT found any form of work what so ever. People are taught to only care about the "Official Number" which is how the Truth is twisted to become a Lie.

[kathy88]

So... The first family mentioned in the article. They lost their business 6 months ago. So if they were SE how did they qualify for state UE anyway? And in six months the only lifestyle change they made was less eating out and putting the kiddies into the government funded lunch program? What about looking for work? Now they're looking but only because the freebies are gone. Fuck these people. This is the problem right here.

[DamianTV]

Very true.

Why bother looking when the benefits for some people will bring in more money than an actual job, at say McDonalds or WalMarx? What incentive is there for them to go back to work when the little work that does exist does not pay as well as either the benefits or the previous job? I hate to say it but this places the blame of the economic collapse on the victims. Im not trying to say what they are doing is either right or wrong, but merely point out that people respond to incentives, and that there has been a decrease in incentives to work and existence in work itself.

[kathy88]

There's work. People just are unwilling to leave their comfort zones.

[Natural Citizen]

I hate to say it but this places the blame of the economic collapse on the victims.

Yep. This is exactly what will happen. Should be interesting to see numbers reporting and then various opinion pieces to come on the subject.

What do you think about the fact that industrial Age infrastructure is becoming obsolete? It's a fact. We have robots building themselves and then doing the work that people used to do.

[Natural Citizen]

There's work. People just are unwilling to leave their comfort zones.

Right. But doing what? Catering to some fat bastard in the fast food line just to accomadate a dangerous infrastructure like these process food companies and big pharma? If I was unemployed I'd be damed if I would. I loath what many of these companies stand for. Much less go work for them.

Really. Doing what? There is a lot of unemployed people. In the U.S. that is.

[kathy88]

Right. But doing what? Catering to some fat bastard in the fast food line just to accomadate a dangerous infrastructure like these process food companies and big pharma? If I was unemployed I'd be damed if I would. I loath what many of these companies stand for. Much less go work for them.

Really. Doing what? There is a lot of unemployed people. In the U.S. that is.
South Dakota oil and gas laborer jobs. 60k. And that's if you're unskilled and stupid.

[MelissaWV]

South Dakota oil and gas laborer jobs. 60k. And that's if you're unskilled and stupid.

*whines* but I don't wanna! And that sounds like it might be outside! And it's cold! And there's nothing to do there! And and and *stomps feet*

[navy-vet]

South Dakota oil and gas laborer jobs. 60k. And that's if you're unskilled and stupid.
I totally agree with kathy88, there are jobs to be had and the better ones might require one to get up off their asses and go to them. Drawing a check and hanging out on the beach for a couple of years makes it harder...

[Natural Citizen]

South Dakota oil and gas laborer jobs. 60k. And that's if you're unskilled and stupid.

Yeah but what if I'm a tree hugger and want to run my car on water like these folks in Japan...well...before that unfortunate and timely tsunami. :rolleyes:

Have to have principles. You know?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME

[invisible]

Yes, there is work out there - IF you're willing to move somewhere else to retain your standard of living.

Overall, this is a lose-lose situation. On one hand, everyone loses if the gov't continues to devalue our money by printing more to pay for things like endless unemployment benefits. On the other hand, everyone loses because those having their benefits cut off will be forced to accept wage deflation (or moving somewhere else and probably having to find a new line of work), which will end up affecting everyone by means of a domino effect. No matter what, we ALL grow more poor and our standard of living falls.

[Natural Citizen]

I totally agree with kathy88, there are jobs to be had and the better ones might require one to get up off their asses and go to them. Drawing a check and hanging out on the beach for a couple of years makes it harder...


She's right. I'm not saying that she isn't. It's dying infrastructure though (oil and gas). It's a travesty that these tycoons kill economies and set countries on fire just to force people to work in these industries and impede innovation elsewhere.

[kathy88]

Yeah but what if I'm a tree hugger and want to run my car on water like these folks in Japan...well...before that unfortunate and timely tsunami. :rolleyes:

Have to have principles. You know?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME
Then get a job trolling RPFs. Lots of tree huggers doing that these days!

[angelatc]

Greg and Barbara Chastain of Huntington Beach, Calif., put their two teenagers on the school lunch program and cut back on dining out after losing their T-shirt company in June following a dispute with an investor.

Since when are the owners of a failed business allowed to draw unemployment?

[angelatc]

*whines* but I don't wanna! And that sounds like it might be outside! And it's cold! And there's nothing to do there! And and and *stomps feet*

Jobs Americans won't do. That's why we need Mexicans.

[GunnyFreedom]

There's work. People just are unwilling to leave their comfort zones.

That hasn't really been my experience. I finally find a government temp job and then the eliminate it because the problem was with the system not the users. I'll shovel dogshit no problem. Are you hiring? Because almost nobody else is.

[Natural Citizen]

Jobs Americans won't do. That's why we need Mexicans.

Did you know that tech firms want to bring in Mexicans under the illusion of immigration reform so that they can monitor your speech on the web? True story. It's slick too how they spin it. I had a thread around here some place about it. Zuckerberg was in on it. I think he was meeting with some politicians here and there to figger on it.

Everyone thinks they're going to come plant lettuce or something. It's a hoot.

[Natural Citizen]

That hasn't really been my experience. I finally find a government temp job and then the eliminate it because the problem was with the system not the users. I'll shovel dogshit no problem. Are you hiring? Because almost nobody else is.

Yep. That one job were were talking about in private a while back had over a hundred people going after it.

[kathy88]

That hasn't really been my experience. I finally find a government temp job and then the eliminate it because the problem was with the system not the users. I'll shovel dogshit no problem. Are you hiring? Because almost nobody else is.

Gunny if you are willing to relocate I could have you a good IT gig. PM me.

[DamianTV]

There's work. People just are unwilling to leave their comfort zones.

Whats comfortable about bringing home less money? For the 1%, it wont affect, but for those who already can not afford to live, any sort of a reduction in income (whether from Unemployment or from a Job) is an incentive to not go down the financial mobility ladder any further than they already are. A real incentive would be to be offered a full time job that paid better than the Unemployment offers.

MSM claims the Depression is over because Wall Street has recovered. We know the opposite to be true. Wall Street recovered at the expense of Main Street. Most of the jobs lost were Middle Class jobs. Most of the jobs created are Part Time Minimum Wage jobs. Leaving ones comfort zone seems to be the same as suggesting that people should should give up a 50k a year job in favor of working at McDonalds.

Your claim that there is work may be true, but much of it depends on perspective. I dont believe there is that much work, nor does the work that is available pay anywhere as well as it used to. Detroit has obviously not recovered. And I certainly do not expect that I'll have any better luck finding work in Detroit.

The thread was intended to suggest that the Official Unemployment Rates (U3) are about to drop dramatically and that MSM is going to twist this information to falsely state that the economy has fully recovered. I do not believe the economy has fully recovered if a person is a member of the 99%.

[DamianTV]

Since when are the owners of a failed business allowed to draw unemployment?

Lehman Bros / Goldman Sachs. Nuff said.

[angelatc]

Lehman Bros / Goldman Sachs. Nuff said.

I don't know what that means. I'm not familiar with Califnornia's unemployment law, but generally speaking, business owners can't collect unemployment.

But California seems to allow it under certain circumstances, so whatever. (http://www.ehow.com/info_8608583_can-business-owners-collect-unemployment.html)

[Anti Federalist]

Since when are the owners of a failed business allowed to draw unemployment?

If their only compensation was salary, paid to them as employees, then they are eligible, AFAIK.

[GunnyFreedom]

If their only compensation was salary, paid to them as employees, then they are eligible, AFAIK.

Depends on the State and their unique UC regulations. In NC ANY income that is not as a mundane employee is not qualified for UC. If you own the business you are SOL even if you paid in to UCI. Income from elective office, likewise, does not qualify.

[GunnyFreedom]

Gunny if you are willing to relocate I could have you a good IT gig. PM me.

I may be interested. I am reluctant to move because 1) I live in the family homestead which is one of the only things my father ever did right, and 2) it was mortgaged up to the hilt to pay off his medical bills when he died and it is still underwater, so I could end up taking a $50k hit to relocate -- $50k that I simply do not have. So it may be impossible no matter how badly I want to. :(

[DamianTV]

I may be interested. I am reluctant to move because 1) I live in the family homestead which is one of the only things my father ever did right, and 2) it was mortgaged up to the hilt to pay off his medical bills when he died and it is still underwater, so I could end up taking a $50k hit to relocate -- $50k that I simply do not have. So it may be impossible no matter how badly I want to. :(

A lot of us are in the same boat.

Some of us have jobs, some dont. We're not living, we're barely surviving, and we know things are only getting progressively worse. Some who want jobs cant get jobs. Those that have jobs would most likely appreciate having better jobs. As in ones that are full time and pay a livable wage.

Gunny

You've made some tremendous personal sacrifices for us for your elected position. Im not sure if we've shown you enough gratitude for your true dedication to Liberty. So, I just wanted to say Thank You for everything you've done for us, and at the very least, we can offer moral support every step of the way. We can make things better, but we do have some obstacles ahead of us. Not impossible, but difficult due to those obstacles. We just need to keep working together to achieve those very difficult but not impossible goals.

[angelatc]

Depends on the State and their unique UC regulations. In NC ANY income that is not as a mundane employee is not qualified for UC. If you own the business you are SOL even if you paid in to UCI. Income from elective office, likewise, does not qualify.

I haven't done extensive research, but it's like that in most states that I've lived in, I think. But California has a lot of extra money, so they're constantly looking for ways to pass it out.

I hadn't heard about your job falling through. I am sorry to hear that.

[UWDude]

I may be interested. I am reluctant to move because 1) I live in the family homestead which is one of the only things my father ever did right, and 2) it was mortgaged up to the hilt to pay off his medical bills when he died and it is still underwater, so I could end up taking a $50k hit to relocate -- $50k that I simply do not have. So it may be impossible no matter how badly I want to. :(


*whines* but I don't wanna! And that sounds like it might be outside! And it's cold! And there's nothing to do there! And and and *stomps feet*

......

[GunnyFreedom]

......

So, wiseguy, how do you propose paying for a $50,000 hit when you are flat broke? I'll shovel shit or move to Alaska; I'm speaking math. You do understand math, don't you?

[DamianTV]

So, wiseguy, how do you propose paying for a $50,000 hit when you are flat broke? I'll shovel shit or move to Alaska; I'm speaking math. You do understand math, don't you?

If only there was someone who could build us NSA proof computers...

[kathy88]

......
I didn't post that, Angela did. I'm not stupid. I know there are people who are in Gunnys situation or similar. I also know there are countless others who make endless excuses as to why they can't work.

[pcosmar]

1.3 million losing benefits.

How many had benefits that had run out already? How many never collected any at all? (I'm one)

I wonder what the real unemployment rate is?

(it's at least 25% in this area) and 90% of the jobs are on the State tit.

Yes,, I could relocate, and lose everything I had worked for.

[69360]

So, wiseguy, how do you propose paying for a $50,000 hit when you are flat broke? I'll shovel shit or move to Alaska; I'm speaking math. You do understand math, don't you?

Walk away from the house. You'll have bad credit for 7 years.

[phill4paul]

What we really need is another government engineered "Free Trade" agreement. That way we can get cheaper products and make our dollars stretch farther.

[MelissaWV]

......

That's interesting that you quoted kathy88 saying what I said. Congratulations, liar.

Now do you want to go back and see what I posted it in response to?

[oyarde]

South Dakota oil and gas laborer jobs. 60k. And that's if you're unskilled and stupid.

That means I am qualified :) , always good to have a back up plan.

[Brian4Liberty]

If their only compensation was salary, paid to them as employees, then they are eligible, AFAIK.

Yeah, it depends upon how the owner "pays" themselves. If they are an employee, and pay all applicable payroll taxes, then that includes UI deductions, and they would be eligible the same as all employees when the business goes under. Often there are laws that require owners to pay themselves as employees, just so that all the taxes can be collected. Depends on the size and type of business.

[Brian4Liberty]

1.3 Million people to start a job search next week...

[HOLLYWOOD]

That hasn't really been my experience. I finally find a government temp job and then the eliminate it because the problem was with the system not the users. I'll shovel dogshit no problem. Are you hiring? Because almost nobody else is.how bout these?
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=networking&l=Research+Triangle+Park,+NC&radius=50

[Anti Federalist]

What we really need is another government engineered "Free Trade" agreement. That way we can get cheaper products and make our dollars stretch farther.

Miraculous! Problem solved.

[devil21]

Hmm....an article on this I posted over in the econ forum has the figure at 2.1 million.

[DamianTV]

1.3 million losing benefits.

How many had benefits that had run out already? How many never collected any at all? (I'm one)

I wonder what the real unemployment rate is?

(it's at least 25% in this area) and 90% of the jobs are on the State tit.

Yes,, I could relocate, and lose everything I had worked for.

This may be closer.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Employment-Population-Ratio-2013.png

The scale of the graph does exaggerate the data, however, a 7% increase in Unemployed is absolutely nothing to scoff at. Also keep in mind that even before the crash in 2008 that the Unemployment Statistics were almost as distorted as they are today. In all fairness, some of the people not working are retired, going to school, or are actually not able to work (the truly disabled), so this chart is not accurate either, but probably closer to reality. The exact number, thus, has to be somewhere between the percentage of the population that are collecting unemployment (7.1%) and the percentage of the population not working (roughly 42%). 25% sounds like a relatively close approximation with data provided.

[angelatc]

I may be interested. I am reluctant to move because 1) I live in the family homestead which is one of the only things my father ever did right, and 2) it was mortgaged up to the hilt to pay off his medical bills when he died and it is still underwater, so I could end up taking a $50k hit to relocate -- $50k that I simply do not have. So it may be impossible no matter how badly I want to. :(

Live small in the new city, and use the salary to make your mortgage payments. I know a couple of people that did that.

I get the sentimental attachment, and would encourage you to hang on as long as you can.

But when it gets hard, maybe ask yourself if your Dad would have wanted to saddle you with the burden. If not, well....that's why they created bankruptcy.

[euphemia]

I am not in favor of indefinite unemployment benefits, because it supports a lifestyle rather than a transition.

However, not everyone can go do gas and oil work in South Dakota. Unskilled and stupid might be good enough for a healthy 20-something who has never owned a home, but for people who are very near retirement age with bodies that have survived cancer and serious health issue, that kind of work is really out of the question. Many people have a lot of equity in homes that might not supply the expense of a move far away. They could not take a dramatic loss in their investment.

In my opinion, it is a little bit arrogant to suggest there is a one-size-fits-all answer to the issue of jobs and work. I don't think we should support endless unemployment, but broad brush condeming the unemployed worker is not a good idea.

[LibForestPaul]

What we really need is another government engineered "Free Trade" agreement. That way we can get cheaper products and make our dollars stretch farther.

And more h1b visas. And government cronism, everyone needs an uncle sam.

[James Madison]

This thread is a classic display of why Republicans are the masters of 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory'. Let's support modern-day feudalism, while alienating half the population!

[Zippyjuan]

Some people out of work cannot afford to move to look for work someplace else.

In a perfect, theoretical world, labor is freely substitutable and completely mobile- meaning that people are free to go where jobs are when they are scarce where they currently live and that they can do any other job but that is not reality. Even what used to be "unskilled" jobs require specific training- manufacturing you need to know how to operate complicated equipment- not just a screwdriver and a hammer. You need to be able to properly program that lathe or milling machine- not just be able to eyeball it and measure things manually. Office jobs you need to be able to use their specific software and hardware. Companies don't want to have to train workers like they used to in the past either.

If you have troubles putting food on the table, is is hard to fill up the car with gas and drive to a different city or even state and rent an apartment while you find a new job. If you have a family, it gets even harder.

[Anti Federalist]

This thread is a classic display of why Republicans are the masters of 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory'. Let's support modern-day feudalism, while alienating half the population!

"Let them eat cake!"

Of course I'm not in favor of more handouts, good fucking grief it's gotta stop sometime, but you're right...FFS address from the perspective of WHY can't you find decent paying work???

And of course, we know the reason why they won't do that...being complicit in enacting and enabling the policies that caused this mess.

[Danke]

Some people out of work cannot afford to move to look for work someplace else.

In a perfect, theoretical world, labor is freely substitutable and completely mobile- meaning that people are free to go where jobs are when they are scarce where they currently live and that they can do any other job but that is not reality. Even what used to be "unskilled" jobs require specific training- manufacturing you need to know how to operate complicated equipment- not just a screwdriver and a hammer. You need to be able to properly program that lathe or milling machine- not just be able to eyeball it and measure things manually. Office jobs you need to be able to use their specific software and hardware. Companies don't want to have to train workers like they used to in the past either.

If you have troubles putting food on the table, is is hard to fill up the car with gas and drive to a different city or even state and rent an apartment while you find a new job. If you have a family, it gets even harder.

Yes, old argument. Capital can for the most part move without restrictions but labor can't move so freely. The answer?

[Zippyjuan]

There isn't really an answer to the problem. And that is only within the US. It gets even harder if you want to have global free movement of labor. There you not only may add cultural difficulties in moving to a new location seeking work but language ones as well. Travel costs would be larger too.

[James Madison]

Yes, old argument. Capital can for the most part move without restrictions but labor can't move so freely. The answer?

Stop adding workers to the already diluted labor pool would be a good start.

Let's also think about the transition from 'homemaker mom' to the 'professional female' that occurred during the 60s. You doubled the labor supply, while the demand for labor remained stagnant. You then brought in poor people from every corner of the globe -- cultures that have no history of freedom and citizens who are fine with being wage slaves because where they come from that is the norm. NAFTA gets a lot of heat, but we were already boned long before it passed -- just salt on an open wound.

[Zippyjuan]

Stop adding workers to the already diluted labor pool would be a good start.

Let's also think about the transition from 'homemaker mom' to the 'professional female' that occurred during the 60s. You doubled the labor supply, while the demand for labor remained stagnant. You then brought in poor people from every corner of the globe -- cultures that have no history of freedom and citizens who are fine with being wage slaves because where they come from that is the norm. NAFTA gets a lot of heat, but we were already boned long before it passed -- just salt on an open wound.

SO who should we ban from the workforce in order to avoid "diluting" it? That too is a step away from a free market where everybody is allowed to participate. Women? Can't have girls working- they should be making babies, eh? (actually the unemployment rate fell in the 1960's as more women entered the work force- in 1960 the unemployment rate was 6.7%- by 1970 it was down to 3.5% http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/us-unemployment-rate-history/ )

Any races? College students? Parents? Forced retirement when you reach a certain age?


You then brought in poor people from every corner of the globe

Maybe only rich people should be allowed to have jobs. (hungry people will work harder)


cultures that have no history of freedom and citizens who are fine with being wage slaves because where they come from that is the norm


Should have kept out all of those Germans and Irish and English and Italian and French and Japanese and other groups which helped build this country. Leave only the Native Americans. Of course that would mean that most of Texas and swaths of California would belong to Mexico again.

[James Madison]

SO who should we ban from the workforce in order to avoid "diluting" it? That too is a step away from a free market where everybody is allowed to participate. Women? Can't have girls working- they should be making babies, eh? (actually the unemployment rate fell in the 1960's as more women entered the work force) Any races? College students? Parents? Forced retirement when you reach a certain age?

Weak attempt at a strawman. Try harder, Zippy.


Maybe only rich people should be allowed to have jobs. (hungry people will work harder)

Keep trying. Someday you'll make a coherent argument.


Should have kept out all of those Germans and Irish and English and Italian and French and Japanese and other groups which helped build this country. Leave only the Native Americans.

Times change.


actually the unemployment rate fell in the 1960's as more women entered the work force- in 1960 the unemployment rate was 6.7%- by 1970 it was down to 3.5%

Nothing at all to do with that one thing in SE Asia, right?

[phill4paul]

Some people out of work cannot afford to move to look for work someplace else.

We need company towns. Those were the good old heady days.

[Zippyjuan]

When the company ran your life from cradle to grave. You shopped in the company store. You rented your home from the company. When you didn't like your job, there was nothing else to go to. Yep-- a true worker's paradise.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofrqm6-LCqs

[phill4paul]

When the company ran your life from cradle to grave. You shopped in the company store. You rented your home from the company. When you didn't like your job, there was nothing else to go to. Yep-- a true worker's paradise.

'Murica. Fook yee-ahh!

[DamianTV]

'Murica. Fook yee-ahh!

Couldnt be Fook yee-ahh, he died in that plane crash with Capt Sum Ting Wong, Naviagor Wi Tu Lo, and the Flight Attendant Bang Ding Ow.

[UWDude]

So, wiseguy, how do you propose paying for a $50,000 hit when you are flat broke? I'll shovel shit or move to Alaska; I'm speaking math. You do understand math, don't you?

I wasn't the one that made the assumptive retarded comment. Kathy88 is.

Edit: sory kathy88, I mis-quoted, it was MelissaVW being assumptive and retarded as always.

Anyways, maybe you can explain to these pair of princesses why moving to South Dakota isn't an option for you, like it probably isn't for most people. You're not the only one with family and such in your home state.

[UWDude]

Some people out of work cannot afford to move to look for work someplace else.

In a perfect, theoretical world, labor is freely substitutable and completely mobile- meaning that people are free to go where jobs are when they are scarce where they currently live and that they can do any other job but that is not reality. Even what used to be "unskilled" jobs require specific training- manufacturing you need to know how to operate complicated equipment- not just a screwdriver and a hammer. You need to be able to properly program that lathe or milling machine- not just be able to eyeball it and measure things manually. Office jobs you need to be able to use their specific software and hardware. Companies don't want to have to train workers like they used to in the past either.

If you have troubles putting food on the table, is is hard to fill up the car with gas and drive to a different city or even state and rent an apartment while you find a new job. If you have a family, it gets even harder.

pffftt... ...you and your realism!! We are talking economics here, everything is just beans to be counted and moved around!

[kathy88]

I wasn't the one that made the assumptive retarded comment. Kathy88 is.

Edit: sory kathy88, I mis-quoted, it was MelissaVW being assumptive and retarded as always.

Anyways, maybe you can explain to these pair of princesses why moving to South Dakota isn't an option for you, like it probably isn't for most people. You're not the only one with family and such in your home state.

Oh yeah I'm a fucking princess. Tell you what asshole 12 years ago I was homeless with two kids. I moved into temporary housing for people in my situation. I got a job wiping mentally and physically handicapped adult asses and was grateful for it. I could have lived there a year but I was out in 6 months and had saved enough to buy a decent little trailer on a rented lot in the woods. Today I own a decent home and some land and a rental property. I have some retirement put away. My point was not directed at people truly looking for work. My point was for the countless lazy assholes who have more excuses than gumption. ND is a decent option for a lot of people. And it was just one example.

[MRK]

There's so many opportunities all over the world for Americans. A single person with high mental fortitude to succeed in the face of animosity can find thousnds of opportunities if they expatriate. The USA is beyond fucked outside of pockets of niche markets, but there's a whole world out there. At some point, you have to realize you can walk away and build things you've always dreamed of.

I have perhaps a different point of view and experience in the matter because I've been thinking about this stuff for 10 years. But there's even more opportunity than I imagined there could be. Even for the little guy with a plane ticket and a couple grand in his pocket.

One site referred to me by nbruno (who also writes articles for it occassionally) is internationalman.com. Lots of good information on the forums. There's also plenty other forums like it for someone who is thinking about expatriation. Some of them are kind of worthless though and cater to the lowest common denominator, ala CNN-caliber article commenters. But there's a handful of professional ones with really smart and experienced people that give solid advice.

I've said before that you can live a western-equivalent lifestyle for $300 a month in many places. I have a higher standard of living now, spending $300-400 every month, than when I was spending $1600/month in the US.

Location-independent income is amazing.

Not to mention, in a lot of these countries, it's easy as hell to start a local business. No income taxes until you hit a large income, no sales taxes. If you need to pay taxes, the tax collectors come find you, not the other way around. Incredibly easy to start a business, incredibly cheap labor, low cost of goods.

Take some chances, live your life. Like my sig says, if you like your freedom, you can keep your freedom.

If anyone has any questions about any of this, please, do not hesitate to PM me. I first learned the advantages of internationalization when I lived in Germany for a year when I was 16. Shortly afterward I went to Ecuador, then lived in Miami for a bit, living in the Midwest back home intermittently. Now I'm making some rounds through Asia, and have already found the place where I'm going to stay for the next foreseeable future in my life. Taking that initial step to live in another country in Germany was the best decision I ever made, because it resulted in a waterfall of enlightenment in just about every form. You're never too old to make changes, but whether you have the drive to succeed is up to you.

This isn't the right option for everyone, but for most people who take the opportunity, they could hardly be more satisfied.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm interviewing today at 3PM for field network service for the NC Highway Patrol's VIPER radio network. It pays better than the welfare support thing. Wish me well. :)

[oyarde]

I'm interviewing today at 3PM for field network service for the NC Highway Patrol's VIPER radio network. It pays better than the welfare support thing. Wish me well. :)

I hope you find whatever you need to keep your place .

[ZENemy]

There's so many opportunities all over the world for Americans. A single person with high mental fortitude to succeed in the face of animosity can find thousnds of opportunities if they expatriate. The USA is beyond fucked outside of pockets of niche markets, but there's a whole world out there. At some point, you have to realize you can walk away and build things you've always dreamed of.

I have perhaps a different point of view and experience in the matter because I've been thinking about this stuff for 10 years. But there's even more opportunity than I imagined there could be. Even for the little guy with a plane ticket and a couple grand in his pocket.

One site referred to me by nbruno (who also writes articles for it occassionally) is internationalman.com. Lots of good information on the forums. There's also plenty other forums like it for someone who is thinking about expatriation. Some of them are kind of worthless though and cater to the lowest common denominator, ala CNN-caliber article commenters. But there's a handful of professional ones with really smart and experienced people that give solid advice.

I've said before that you can live a western-equivalent lifestyle for $300 a month in many places. I have a higher standard of living now, spending $300-400 every month, than when I was spending $1600/month in the US.

Location-independent income is amazing.

Not to mention, in a lot of these countries, it's easy as hell to start a local business. No income taxes until you hit a large income, no sales taxes. If you need to pay taxes, the tax collectors come find you, not the other way around. Incredibly easy to start a business, incredibly cheap labor, low cost of goods.

Take some chances, live your life. Like my sig says, if you like your freedom, you can keep your freedom.

If anyone has any questions about any of this, please, do not hesitate to PM me. I first learned the advantages of internationalization when I lived in Germany for a year when I was 16. Shortly afterward I went to Ecuador, then lived in Miami for a bit, living in the Midwest back home intermittently. Now I'm making some rounds through Asia, and have already found the place where I'm going to stay for the next foreseeable future in my life. Taking that initial step to live in another country in Germany was the best decision I ever made, because it resulted in a waterfall of enlightenment in just about every form. You're never too old to make changes, but whether you have the drive to succeed is up to you.

This isn't the right option for everyone, but for most people who take the opportunity, they could hardly be more satisfied.

What country is this?

[UWDude]

Oh yeah I'm a fucking princess. Tell you what asshole 12 years ago I was homeless with two kids. I moved into temporary housing for people in my situation. I got a job wiping mentally and physically handicapped adult asses and was grateful for it. I could have lived there a year but I was out in 6 months and had saved enough to buy a decent little trailer on a rented lot in the woods. Today I own a decent home and some land and a rental property. I have some retirement put away. My point was not directed at people truly looking for work. My point was for the countless lazy assholes who have more excuses than gumption. ND is a decent option for a lot of people. And it was just one example.

Pfft. Why didn't you just move to North Dakota and make 60000 a year?

[Danke]

Pfft. Why didn't you just move to North Dakota and make 60000 a year?

Because the men working outside in sub zero temperatures on oil rigs up their are not tough enough for her.

[Lucille]

http://www.theburningplatform.com/2013/12/30/are-msm-journalists-stupid-or-corrupt/


Why would we need extended unemployment benefits, food stamps at record levels, zero interest rates, and the Federal Reserve buying $75 billion of bonds per month if the stock market is at record highs, unemployment has plunged from 10% to 7%, and the economy is growing at over 4%?

If the emergency is far past, stop ALL the emergency measures and let’s see how well our beloved leaders have SOLVED our problems.

Oh. I thought so. Nothing has been solved. The oligarchs have only deferred the final collapse until they could capture the remaining wealth of the peasants.

[MelissaWV]

I wasn't the one that made the assumptive retarded comment. Kathy88 is.

Edit: sory kathy88, I mis-quoted, it was MelissaVW being assumptive and retarded as always.

Anyways, maybe you can explain to these pair of princesses why moving to South Dakota isn't an option for you, like it probably isn't for most people. You're not the only one with family and such in your home state.

Actually, people gave Gunny reasonable advice to be able to move. I'm always willing to assist someone I know monetarily if they need it to get on their feet, too, but there needs to be a plan in place. I've fed more than a few people on the forums, which is more of a pay it forward kind of thing for when I was completely and totally screwed from a financial standpoint. I did not say he had to move to South Dakota. What I implied by my post was that many people will not move, or put up with adverse conditions, or work more than one job. Why would they? One gets paid more to kick back on the couch and collect unemployment or disability (the definition of which has bloated beyond all recognition of the original, misguided intent). Why suffer hardship when you can hang out for months and months and months and months and be paid to float out a resume from time to time?

Does everyone do that? Of course not. No one said they did.

My spectacular degree of retardation led me to believe you were smart enough to figure that out :)

[UWDude]

What I implied by my post was that many people will not move,

Most people CANT move. Get it?
They have family, or kids, and they can't just pack up and move half way across the country. Also, this thing called MONEY which is needed to move, and of course, there is the RISK of not getting a job, or losing it a few months later, when you move, making a horrible situation worse.

[MelissaWV]

Most people CANT move. Get it?
They have family, or kids, and they can't just pack up and move half way across the country. Also, this thing called MONEY which is needed to move, and of course, there is the RISK of not getting a job, or losing it a few months later, when you move, making a horrible situation worse.

So everyone is halfway around the country from an available job :( That's awfully sad. Thankfully there are more helpful people in the thread than hyperbole and insult -spewing ones. So relocating is impossible, you should never take a risk to get a job because you might lose it. Basically these employers really should just kindly knock on your door with a guarantee and a signing bonus...

As an aside, seriously, who is the anger supposed to be helping here?

[tod evans]

Most people CANT move. Get it?
They have family, or kids, and they can't just pack up and move half way across the country. Also, this thing called MONEY which is needed to move, and of course, there is the RISK of not getting a job, or losing it a few months later, when you move, making a horrible situation worse.

Sounds like you've got a couple of choices....

Do what's necessary to earn a living...

Or, whine and complain while expecting the rest of us to carry your sorry ass.

[kathy88]

Pfft. Why didn't you just move to North Dakota and make 60000 a year?

You can't be that stupid can you? It was one example of a decent opportunity. Anyone with a little gumption could do very well.

[devil21]

Most people CANT move. Get it?
They have family, or kids, and they can't just pack up and move half way across the country. Also, this thing called MONEY which is needed to move, and of course, there is the RISK of not getting a job, or losing it a few months later, when you move, making a horrible situation worse.

I believe people can always create their own outcome/fate if they desire it, plan enough to achieve it, and exercise patience and discipline enough to see it through. Some of us actually have done that so it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for others who aren't willing to take the same risks but still want to live off my risk-taking and desire. Staying in a dead end situation, waiting for things to happen TO YOU, instead of making things happen FOR YOU, is guaranteeing a fate of mediocrity and suffering. In what world does staying in an area with no jobs and barely getting by translate to a better situation that taking a risk in another area? The worst that generally would happen is now you're in a new area with no jobs. But that's where planning comes in so you move to an area with better prospects and avoid that fate. People are too comfortable with mediocrity, especially now that the gov'ts are busy coming up with broader ways to encourage that mediocrity in the form of disability checks for obesity (while giving those same folks food stamps), endless UE checks, free college "grants" that don't actually pay for schooling, and everything else we see.

You make your own fate in this life.

[UWDude]

Sounds like you've got a couple of choices....

Do what's necessary to earn a living...

Or, whine and complain while expecting the rest of us to carry your sorry ass.
I work full time, and I commute 6 hours a day to get there and back.
I just don't expect this of everyone, nor do I think it is reasonable, or reasonable to expect anyone else to be as super-human awesome as all the people here on RPF with their awesome tales of what good workers they are and what piss-poor workers their fellow countrymen are. And as I have stated before, I wouldn't even be able to have this job without the help of friends and family who fronted me the money for the suits and the transportation, because I was in a desperate place, after no income for over a year, all my savings gone. And I applied like crazy... ...I don't know when the last time any of you tried to get a job, but it is far from easy to even get one at Safeway or Fred Meyer right now.

Every time there is a thread about the plight of the working poor and unemployed on these forums, it should come with a dozen extra hand towels, because of all the self-gratifying masturbation that follows. Everybody likes to talk about how awesome they are, and how awesome their kids are, and how they are such better workers and smarter than everyone else. It's just so fucking disgusting.

And whenever there is a thread about the poor and working poor, instead of focusing on the causes of the economic dissolution of America, these threads turn into rants about how the youth of today are just so damn lazy and self entitled and looking for handouts. I find it amazing, I have a co-worker who says the same shit, all the while he is commuting now 2 hours a day, plus paying a toll fee. But what does he do, he says his own generation is a bunch of self-entitled, spoiled lazy ass fucks. Same with two girls, both of which are going to school and working full time, thinking their generation is just a bunch of lazy, self-entitled spoiled brats.

I see a world of self-loathing young people, and the old people on top of them loathing them too, who are actually well educated, and technologically advanced to any previous generation by a mile, working their asses off, getting nowhere, and blaming the poor around them for the economic hardships they are suffering.

The poor are not responsible for the state of the economy. They have the least influence and power over it. People in general want to work. They just don't want to work two jobs just to pay the bills and mandated insurance costs, with no hope for a future of home and family.

YOUR HATRED OF YOUR FELLOW MEN WILL BE YOUR ULTIMATE DOWNFALL.

[UWDude]

I believe people can always create their own outcome/fate if they desire it, plan enough to achieve it, and exercise patience and discipline enough to see it through. Some of us actually have done that so it's hard to have a lot of sympathy for others who aren't willing to take the same risks but still want to live off my risk-taking and desire. Staying in a dead end situation, waiting for things to happen TO YOU, instead of making things happen FOR YOU, is guaranteeing a fate of mediocrity and suffering. In what world does staying in an area with no jobs and barely getting by translate to a better situation that taking a risk in another area? The worst that generally would happen is now you're in a new area with no jobs. But that's where planning comes in so you move to an area with better prospects and avoid that fate. People are too comfortable with mediocrity, especially now that the gov'ts are busy coming up with broader ways to encourage that mediocrity in the form of disability checks for obesity (while giving those same folks food stamps), endless UE checks, free college "grants" that don't actually pay for schooling, and everything else we see.

You make your own fate in this life.

What a wonderful "pick yourself up by your bootstraps speech", with absolutely no basis in reality. It sounds wonderful, but the real world is not so easy.

And once again, somehow it is the poor's fault they are poor and desperate. Yup. Can't be the gutting of the industrial core of America by international banking cartels, nope. The depression is because Americans are lazy and don't want to work. Just clueless.

[tod evans]

YOUR HATRED OF YOUR FELLOW MEN WILL BE YOUR ULTIMATE DOWNFALL.

You're sadly mistaken there Bucko...

I don't hate or even loathe my fellow man and I personally have trained several young folks (men and women) in my trade, and paid them a fair wage to learn.

Those for whom I harbor disdain are those who won't work...

[pcosmar]

Wish me well. :)

Can't do it.

Sorry,,, I do wish you well.. just not there.

[angelatc]

Most people CANT move. Get it?
They have family, or kids, and they can't just pack up and move half way across the country. Also, this thing called MONEY which is needed to move, and of course, there is the RISK of not getting a job, or losing it a few months later, when you move, making a horrible situation worse.


That's why there are no illegal Mexican immigrants anywhere except Texas and California. I mean, nobody from a third word country and a family could make it to the East Coast for work. That would be crazy.

[UWDude]

That's why there are no illegal Mexican immigrants anywhere except Texas and California. I mean, nobody from a third word country and a family could make it to the East Coast for work. That would be crazy.

Most Mexicans have family here already.
Most people don't have family near the oil fields of North Dakota.
And plus, Mexican jobs are not high competition jobs.

[pcosmar]

That's why there are no illegal Mexican immigrants anywhere except Texas and California. I mean, nobody from a third word country and a family could make it to the East Coast for work. That would be crazy.

As I recall.. they busted some up here,, logging. (Not that I want to do that for a living again)
And there have been construction projects around the area,, BUT THEY DON'T HIRE LOCALS.

They bring crews from elsewhere.

I'm am long past whining about my unemployment. I am blacklisted. I stay busy around the farm,, and God has provided all we need.
I wait patiently for the economy to crash, and for the State to go broke..
Then 80% of the population will leave this area,, and those that remain can do so without interference.

[MelissaWV]

As I recall.. they busted some up here,, logging. (Not that I want to do that for a living again)
And there have been construction projects around the area,, BUT THEY DON'T HIRE LOCALS.

They bring crews from elsewhere.

I'm am long past whining about my unemployment. I am blacklisted. I stay busy around the farm,, and God has provided all we need.
I wait patiently for the economy to crash, and for the State to go broke..
Then 80% of the population will leave this area,, and those that remain can do so without interference.

Honestly, it's always sounded to me like you are self-reliant and self-employed :) That, too, takes a hell of a lot of work and focus.

[MelissaWV]

As I recall.. they busted some up here,, logging. (Not that I want to do that for a living again)
And there have been construction projects around the area,, BUT THEY DON'T HIRE LOCALS.

They bring crews from elsewhere.

I'm am long past whining about my unemployment. I am blacklisted. I stay busy around the farm,, and God has provided all we need.
I wait patiently for the economy to crash, and for the State to go broke..
Then 80% of the population will leave this area,, and those that remain can do so without interference.

Her point was about the notion that it's impossible to move to find work, especially with a family. Somewhere along the line people began replacing "difficult" with "impossible" and it has stuck.

* * *

If it does become impossible, then private charities are an option, volunteer work, and anything to keep yourself a viable employable person within reason. We are far from 100% employment --- even in unskilled jobs --- in this country. It isn't "hatred" to want to help privately, to think that people need to stop putting quite so many restrictions on what job they're willing to take, etc.. And it's interesting that somehow ageism leapt into this. But in the end, I can only wish Gunny luck... since he's actually looking, and somewhat outside of his comfort zone at that, rather than sitting on his butt collecting whatever freebies he can slurp up.

[pcosmar]

Honestly, it's always sounded to me like you are self-reliant and self-employed :) That, too, takes a hell of a lot of work and focus.
Yeah,, but I don't pay well.
I keep junk running and the house warm. I am my wife's driver..

I would like to be more "productive",, and have some money for more than "necessities". Maybe even some improvements around here.
I had posted some of my experiences in trying to find work.

I have come to acceptance.

[MelissaWV]

Yeah,, but I don't pay well.
I keep junk running and the house warm. I am my wife's driver..

I would like to be more "productive",, and have some money for more than "necessities". Maybe even some improvements around here.
I had posted some of my experiences in trying to find work.

I have come to acceptance.

Hermit for hire! You could make a killing here right now taking down and packing up Christmas decorations (no one likes doing that part).

[angelatc]

Most Mexicans have family here already.
Most people don't have family near the oil fields of North Dakota.
And plus, Mexican jobs are not high competition jobs.


So you're saying that Mexicans will move to another freaking country for low paying entry-level jobs, but Americans can't be expected to move to another state for high paying entry level jobs?

[Origanalist]

So you're saying that Mexicans will move to another freaking country for low paying entry-level jobs, but Americans can't be expected to move to another state for high paying entry level jobs?

Yes, he is. The Dude abides.

[devil21]

(mostly stream of consciousness thoughts in my reply here so pardon if it's a bit disjointed)


I work full time, and I commute 6 hours a day to get there and back.
I just don't expect this of everyone, nor do I think it is reasonable, or reasonable to expect anyone else to be as super-human awesome as all the people here on RPF with their awesome tales of what good workers they are and what piss-poor workers their fellow countrymen are. And as I have stated before, I wouldn't even be able to have this job without the help of friends and family who fronted me the money for the suits and the transportation, because I was in a desperate place, after no income for over a year, all my savings gone. And I applied like crazy... ...I don't know when the last time any of you tried to get a job, but it is far from easy to even get one at Safeway or Fred Meyer right now.

There's a solution to that. Stop waiting for someone else to give you a job. Create your own job and then you can give others work. That was the principle that made this country a powerhouse in the first place. I find it odd that if I take risks to create my own job, which eventually leads to giving work to others to support themselves too, my pointing out how it started makes my story "an awesome tale of how great a worker I am", which apparently is worthy of scorn to you. Without job creator's "awesomeness", would anybody have jobs? I don't get the logic there.

The alternative is a communist society where jobs aren't really jobs and paychecks aren't really paychecks.

"We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" - old Soviet factory joke



Every time there is a thread about the plight of the working poor and unemployed on these forums, it should come with a dozen extra hand towels, because of all the self-gratifying masturbation that follows. Everybody likes to talk about how awesome they are, and how awesome their kids are, and how they are such better workers and smarter than everyone else. It's just so fucking disgusting.

Every time these threads come up, butthurt types also ignore the part where most of us rational people recognize that not everyone on these programs is just a lazy leech. They are out there and they're growing though! The problem is that these programs that started out as means to help people that TRULY NEEDED TEMPORARY ASSISTANCE has morphed into permanent subsidies and incentives to not exercise entrepreneurial spirit but rather to stay dependent on the gov't and remain mediocre.

If you want to discuss how varying levels of intelligence in society contribute to the widening gap between the haves and have nots, we can discuss it, but that would get into the liberal education system being implemented to dumb people down. It's called Common Core because everyone (except the elites that send their kids to private schools) will end up with a lowest common denomination education and that breeds a very common population that is not prepared to be self-sufficient and successful. Then there's the daily distractions foisted on us by non-stop media bread and circuses. And don't forget purposeful destruction of the family unit through liberalized court systems too. IOW, what you're witnessing is the Communist Manifesto playbook in action. I'm sorry if you feel that relaying experience on a forum sounds only like boasting but I assure that in real-life, when people around you see your success, it motivates most of them toward success. People want to learn from your success. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all. I'd love nothing more than to be in an entire country of people boasting how smart and successful they are!



And whenever there is a thread about the poor and working poor, instead of focusing on the causes of the economic dissolution of America, these threads turn into rants about how the youth of today are just so damn lazy and self entitled and looking for handouts. I find it amazing, I have a co-worker who says the same shit, all the while he is commuting now 2 hours a day, plus paying a toll fee. But what does he do, he says his own generation is a bunch of self-entitled, spoiled lazy ass fucks. Same with two girls, both of which are going to school and working full time, thinking their generation is just a bunch of lazy, self-entitled spoiled brats.


The younger generations have been raised in a giant economic bubble that is now bursting and their perspective of what it takes to survive (never mind thriving) in the "real world" is pretty well screwed up. Many were raised in the days of credit cards and house loans for anyone with a pulse. Whether that makes them lazy or what, I don't know, but many of them grew up in a distorted reality and have not adjusted to the change in reality. Anyway, I will ALWAYS argue for cutting foreign policy/DoD spending first before cutting any social programs at home. The problem is they both keep expanding, while the cost for both falls on those that continue to take risks and be productive. Most of us that have been paying attention are well aware of the causes of the economic destruction underway. At what point do we stop throwing good money after bad? At what point do productive risk-takers start feeling like they're being taken advantage of and stop being PC about it? The politicians, bankers, and the rest of the elite are using our money to buy the votes of the unproductive, which further erodes OUR ability to be productive, since the unproductive vote is for more of the same regulation and taxation that caused their unproductivity in the first place! That is a self fulfilling downward spiral. Where is the line drawn?



I see a world of self-loathing young people, and the old people on top of them loathing them too, who are actually well educated, and technologically advanced to any previous generation by a mile, working their asses off, getting nowhere, and blaming the poor around them for the economic hardships they are suffering.

The poor are not responsible for the state of the economy. They have the least influence and power over it. People in general want to work. They just don't want to work two jobs just to pay the bills and mandated insurance costs.

So you're saying people don't want to do what is required to survive on their own merits even though us risk-takers did it? And then when we point this out, WE are the bad guys? wt



YOUR HATRED OF YOUR FELLOW MEN WILL BE YOUR ULTIMATE DOWNFALL.

"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for life." - Lao Tzu

Whether that man wants to go fishing is his choice. If he'd rather watch football then I won't go fishing on his behalf.

[devil21]

What a wonderful "pick yourself up by your bootstraps speech", with absolutely no basis in reality. It sounds wonderful, but the real world is not so easy.

No one said it was easy. That's my entire point. Life ain't easy. Is that all you care about? How easy something is? THAT'S THE DAMN PROBLEM!! Risk-takers don't work their asses off to get ahead just to hand it over to someone else who complains about the difficulty of doing what the risk-taker did and therefore won't even try.



And once again, somehow it is the poor's fault they are poor and desperate. Yup. Can't be the gutting of the industrial core of America by international banking cartels, nope. The depression is because Americans are lazy and don't want to work. Just clueless.

Just for sake of argument, the poor seem to do a pretty good job of keeping themselves poor by voting for "right now" instead of what's in their better long term interest. Vote for more handouts and free shit "Hope and Change", but then get their taxes raised by Obamacare and the purchasing power of what money they do get is eroded instead of voting for free markets and reigning in reckless monetary policy. Yeah, then they wonder why the poor remain poor. Falling for the short con while never even seeing the long con behind it.

Chris Rock covered the mindset well here. Difference between wealth and rich. It applies to all races of course since all races spend money on shiny crap they can't afford.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdmW0rnvF_s

[willwash]

Very true.

Why bother looking when the benefits for some people will bring in more money than an actual job, at say McDonalds or WalMarx? What incentive is there for them to go back to work when the little work that does exist does not pay as well as either the benefits or the previous job? I hate to say it but this places the blame of the economic collapse on the victims. Im not trying to say what they are doing is either right or wrong, but merely point out that people respond to incentives, and that there has been a decrease in incentives to work and existence in work itself.

I disagree. You can't blame the victim here. People make rational economic decisions, and due to the broken system the rational economic decision happened to be to ride out the free benefits as long as possible. Once the incentive to be lazy was taken away the rational decision became to make real sacrifices.

Can any of us really say that if we were in that situation we'd choose to work at wal mart for 1500 a month tops when the govt would dole us out 1200 for doing nothing--all out of some sense of honor? I feel no shame in saying that i probably would not. I'm sure a few would, but in general people respond to incentives.

I suppose I'm one of the few who say people are fundamentally neither good nor bad. They simply respond in good or bad ways according to good or bad incentives with which they are faced.

[limequat]

My household lost more than half of its income last year. It was tough, but...

1) We sold a car and bought a cheaper one.
2) The wife picked up babysitting jobs on care.com. Just about anybody can do this.
3) I started buying electronics on eBay, refurbishing, and reselling. If you're reading this on the internet, you could probably do the same thing.
4) I started a little side business working on cars. The stuff that I do requires specialized knowledge, but just about anybody can change brake pads or do oil changes.

I have as much work as I want and often more. I have little sympathy for the 1.3 million "looking for work" and collecting my tax dollars. When the going got tough, my family got going and it didn't require "finding" anything other than enough initiative to get off the couch.

[mosquitobite]

Yeah,, but I don't pay well.
I keep junk running and the house warm. I am my wife's driver..

I would like to be more "productive",, and have some money for more than "necessities". Maybe even some improvements around here.
I had posted some of my experiences in trying to find work.

I have come to acceptance.

I have read a couple of books that you might enjoy.

One is called "better off" and the other is "possum living"

It might change your perspective! :)

I truly admire the Amish though. I'm weird like that. ;)

[MelissaWV]

I disagree. You can't blame the victim here. People make rational economic decisions, and due to the broken system the rational economic decision happened to be to ride out the free benefits as long as possible. Once the incentive to be lazy was taken away the rational decision became to make real sacrifices.

Can any of us really say that if we were in that situation we'd choose to work at wal mart for 1500 a month tops when the govt would dole us out 1200 for doing nothing--all out of some sense of honor? I feel no shame in saying that i probably would not. I'm sure a few would, but in general people respond to incentives.

I suppose I'm one of the few who say people are fundamentally neither good nor bad. They simply respond in good or bad ways according to good or bad incentives with which they are faced.

I tried the "benefits" thing for a very very very short time (EBT). It honestly took more time getting the benefits than I would have imagined. It was dumb and I'd rather deal with bartering what I can do and eating from charity pantries. Other people are going to make different choices. Of course there's a rude awakening for the person in the aforementioned scenario when they do go back into the workforce and their most recent work experience is "on unemployment." That seems to get ignored. The longer these benefits are extended, the harder it will be to get meaningful work, which means unceremoniously going from unemployment benefits to welfare of other kinds, which only prolongs the gaps in your resume and leaves you with skills that are woefully out of date. It turns what could have been a temporarily difficult time into a legacy.

[UWDude]

So you're saying that Mexicans will move to another freaking country for low paying entry-level jobs, but Americans can't be expected to move to another state for high paying entry level jobs?

where are all these high paying, entry level jobs?
Why in the state of MelissaWestVirgnina, of course.

[DamianTV]

where are all these high paying, entry level jobs?
Why in the state of MelissaWestVirgnina, of course.

So thats where I left my Buick!

[angelatc]

The younger generations have been raised in a giant economic bubble that is now bursting and their perspective of what it takes to survive (never mind thriving) in the "real world" is pretty well screwed up. Many were raised in the days of credit cards and house loans for anyone with a pulse.

It's deeper than that. I wasn't raised like that, and in fact I've often caught flack because when I tell people they could be more frugal, they snap back insist that things are different today than they were for previous generations.

But even from my generation - there is something different in the very spirit of the country. People don't see opportunity in America any more. UWDude is a prime example of that. He believes in his very soul that if the rich are rich and the poor are poor, then the rich must be stealing from the poor.

Even people my age, who remember what a real genuine economic boom looks like, have been kicked out of the workforce so many times that it takes a toll. Yes, when you get laid off or fired you should just blow it off and get out there and find another job. But it wears you down on the inside, and after a while there's just some part of us that breaks.

And I'm not mocking the people who still believe in the "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" mentality. They're right, that's how we should be thinking of these things, and that's the only legitimate solution regardless. And people like me, who don't see the same nation I used to see aren't doing anybody any favors by giving out sympathy.

But the liberals fundamental transformation of America came complete with breaking the spirit of the individual, eventually. They have done a bang up job of that.

And politically, I don't do not know what the answer is when you meet someone who has lost their faith.

[angelatc]

where are all these high paying, entry level jobs?
Why in the state of MelissaWestVirgnina, of course.

More and more of them are in Mexico, I think.

[MelissaWV]

You're so clever to intuit that I'm in West Virginia!

... when I'm not.

[UWDude]

You're so clever to intuit that I'm in West Virginia!

... when I'm not.

I know. You are in your own little world.

[DamianTV]

You're so clever to intuit that I'm in West Virginia!

... when I'm not.

Wisconsonese Velociraptor?
Willful Vindicator?
Whimsical Volleyball?
Worldly Visionary?

I've always wondered what WV stood for...

[tod evans]

I've always wondered what WV stood for...

Willingly Vivacious?

[MelissaWV]

Wisconsonese Velociraptor?
Willful Vindicator?
Whimsical Volleyball?
Worldly Visionary?

I've always wondered what WV stood for...

Woldercan virgin?
Werewolf vivisection?

[Carson]

I disagree. You can't blame the victim here. People make rational economic decisions, and due to the broken system the rational economic decision happened to be to ride out the free benefits as long as possible. Once the incentive to be lazy was taken away the rational decision became to make real sacrifices.

Can any of us really say that if we were in that situation we'd choose to work at wal mart for 1500 a month tops when the govt would dole us out 1200 for doing nothing--all out of some sense of honor? I feel no shame in saying that i probably would not. I'm sure a few would, but in general people respond to incentives.

I suppose I'm one of the few who say people are fundamentally neither good nor bad. They simply respond in good or bad ways according to good or bad incentives with which they are faced.

Any new women coming through where I work is a rare occasion. At least half of the people of Walmart are women so perhaps I might do the honorable thing.

[Carson]

This whole cutoff is just the sort of thing that can get the economy back on track as to companies doing some hiring.

Painful as it might be and sucking off our side of the economy it could cascade a bunch of defaulting and cause the currency to regain some value as shown on this chart. See the dips on the Dot.com bubble, housing market and then I'm not really sure what the 2011 correction was but a lot of people couldn't afford the earn a living working or hiring because the value of the dollar was so low. At least that's the way I'm seeing it at the moment.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/DotComHousingBubble.jpg
http://www.barchart.com/chart.php?sym=%24DOWI&style=technical&template=&p=MO&d=X&sd=05%2F03%2F1970&ed=05%2F03%2F2013&size=L&log=0&t=CANDLE&v=0&g=1&evnt=1&late=1&o1=&o2=&o3=&sh=100&indicators=&addindicator=&submitted=1&fpage=&txtDate=#jump



P.S The trouble is the gain may be short lived as you can see by the chart the effects of them bailing themselves out and the value again falling to new heights as indicated by the chart spiking up again.

[devil21]

Woldercan virgin?
Werewolf vivisection?

Your avatar is an example of vintage makeup so I would guess the W is your last name initial and the V indicates your interest in Vintage styles.

[navy-vet]

Wild Vixen

[seraphson]

I suppose now would be a good time to address the problem instead of the symptoms.
Oh wait, the Fed has unemployment covered with their "dual mandate". Because dialing a knob magically makes jobs.

[Ender]

Woldercan virgin?
Werewolf vivisection?

Always thought it was West Virginia- guess I wasn't being imaginative enough. ;)

[oyarde]

Wisconsonese Velociraptor?
Willful Vindicator?
Whimsical Volleyball?
Worldly Visionary?

I've always wondered what WV stood for... If it turns out to be Velociraptor , you should take me for a ride in your Buick , my last one was a 1973 Apollo , I wanted a Roadmaster .....

[DamianTV]

Wagon Vehicle
Walrus Village
Wallabee Violator
Woodland Village
Wondertwin Vendetta
Wildabeast Voyeur
Wile E. Coyote Viewer

I just couldn't help it... :toady: So, just to be fair... (pot shots at myself)

TV stands for:
Terminal Velocity
Totally Valuable
Telekinetic Vortex