Cornel West - Epic video against establishment

[enhanced_deficit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEScONfKqFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEScONfKqFk

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEScONfKqFk" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA6MCjGEsTg
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEScONfKqFk)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA6MCjGEsTg



[mod note- original thread title was renamed]

[CPUd]

first

[enhanced_deficit]

first

Could you be a tad bit more articulate?

Afterall this a thread about master of articulation, Cornell West.

[James Madison]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/296/328/d64.gif

[NoOneButPaul]

These videos are old news...

[enhanced_deficit]

These videos are old news...

Not for me, first time seen them today.

If these quotes are accurate, I'm an MLK fan as of today. And ofcourse of brother West.



On a different note, also stumbled on this Cornell West video :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNOgkvhXi9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNOgkvhXi9A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNOgkvhXi9A)

[FrankRep]

Not for me, first time seen them today.

If these quotes are accurate, I'm an MLK fan as of today. And ofcourse of brother West.



Cornel Ronald West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West) (born June 2, 1953) is an American philosopher, academic, activist, author, public intellectual, and prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America.


The dude is a Socialist.

[jkr]

yeah i like me some mr west

[enhanced_deficit]

Cornel Ronald West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West) (born June 2, 1953) is an American philosopher, academic, activist, author, public intellectual, and prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America.


The dude is a Socialist.

Brother West might be a "socialist" but his heart seems to be in better place than "capitalist" brother Dick Cheney, brother Bernanke or brothers/sisters at Goldman Sachs.

It is about finding common grounds and listening to honest criticism from a differing voice. He is not advocating socialism in thises videos but exposing WAR Inc's hypocrisy and quite brilliantly I might add. Wake me up once "capitalists" start speaking out against droning of innocent children and war profiteering/politicians horse trading.

A question for you brother Frank. Is Goldman Sachs (one of biggest financiers responsible for putting brother Obama in the White House) a Socialist or a Capitalist entity?

[Natural Citizen]

Uh-oh. enhanced_deficit brought a mirror. That might oughtta spruce up the room a bit. Heh.

Very good, enhanced_deficit.

I'll tell you what though. These kinds of responses are clear indicators of what is wrong with a movement that professes on the surface that all would do well to form a common ground for liberty. Will ultimately spell doom should political theater continue to trump the terms of controversy. It's unfortunate.

Reminds me of those people that pick their favorite football team based upon the color of their helmets. You know? It's like the blue ones are socialist and the red ones are fascist. Ultimately there isn't much difference but it sure do sell tickets to the blue-red game.

I was stuck in a room full of liberals the other day but found that they were far more open to synergy for the cause of liberty than those who historically oppose their views. Their political counterparts who tend to slam the door shut, put their fingers in their ears and pull the welcome mat.

Also...this mindset is indicative that when some of us cry liberty, we do so in the same manner. We like to pick and choose who benefits from it and conforming to our own vision of how it will payoff personally. I think is why we rarely see much gripe against the corporate merge with government that by default defines facism. Nope. Crickets chirping when that word comes up.

[gwax23]

I proposed we libertrians sell our souls in order to win over socialist scum like Cornell West who thinks the establishment isnt big enough.

[Bastiat's The Law]

He only attacks it because he wishes to create a bigger socialist utopia.

[enhanced_deficit]

I proposed we libertrians sell our souls in order to win over socialist scum like Cornell West who thinks the establishment isnt big enough.

Hope you will stick around to clarify your view. A question for you, who is worse in your "capitalist" eyes, Cornell West or Goldman Sachs (whose money made "socialist" Obama's election possible)?

If you're feeling generous maybe you can pick up this Q too:
Is Goldman Sachs (one of biggest financiers responsible for putting brother Obama in the White House) a Socialist or a Capitalist entity?

Do you hate Socialist States too? If so, what is your view of State of Israel since we debated that issue recently too?




ISRAEL: A SOCIALIST SPARTA
(http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j042902.html)Israel:
Nationalism, Socialism, and the Making of the Jewish State
Zeev Sternhell




Op/Ed (http://www.forbes.com/opinions)
7/30/2012

Mitt Romney Lavishes Praise On Israel's Socialist, Government Controlled Healthcare System


http://blogs-images.forbes.com/rickungar/files/2012/07/300x2005.jpg (http://www.daylife.com/image/0ajWeXp6HW43Q?utm_source=zemanta&utm_medium=p&utm_content=0ajWeXp6HW43Q&utm_campaign=z1)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/07/30/whiplash-mitt-romney-lavishes-praise-on-israels-socialist-government-controlled-healthcare-system/

[gwax23]

Hope you will stick around to clarify your view. A question for you, who is worse in your "capitalist" eyes, Cornell West or Goldman Sachs (whose money made "socialist" Obama's election possible)?

If you feeling very smart today, maybe you can pick up this Q too:
Is Goldman Sachs (one of biggest financiers responsible for putting brother Obama in the White House) a Socialist or a Capitalist entity?

Do you hate Socialist States too? If so, what is your view of State of Israel since we debated that issue recently too?

I always "stick around" to clarify my views. I answer all your dumb questions and deflections, no matter how many more you come up with.

I despise Israels economic policy, and have said that many times. Though at this point the US and Israel arent far apart in terms of economic freedom. Israel is probably moving in the right direction with more privatization, and deregulation in recent years. But nice deflection.

Cornell west is a big government socialist. Its very simple. He supported Obama (though now he wants to be trendy by saying he doesnt support him "as much") and he supported the overthrow of Saddam. Goldman sachs has nothing to do with him or this conversation. Goldman sachs is a private organisation that can give money and support to whoever it chooses.

Cornell west is a socialist who you and other shills on this forum are trying to support because you lack a deep understanding of Libertarian principles thus you are quick to sell out to the first schmuck who says a few things bad about the "establishment." Hes no friend of real liberty lovers and should be ostracized not praised.

[Natural Citizen]

Goldman sachs has nothing to do with him or this conversation. Goldman sachs is a private organisation that can give money and support to whoever it chooses.



Sure it does. Hey, what's the difference between a socialist shill and a fascist shill? And this gag about true liberty lovers. Does that mean that one isn't a true liberty over if he or she doesn't worship corporate tyranny? Is corporate tyranny the defining mechanism for libertarianism? You just said that it's the corporation's right to influence elections or whatever else they please. Really, it's not, since that whole gag about corporate personhood is bunk but that's beside the point. But is that what you're saying?

[enhanced_deficit]

I always "stick around" to clarify my views. I answer all your dumb questions and deflections, no matter how many more you come up with.

I despise Israels economic policy, and have said that many times. Though at this point the US and Israel arent far apart in terms of economic freedom. Israel is probably moving in the right direction with more privatization, and deregulation in recent years. But nice deflection.

Cornell west is a big government socialist. Its very simple. He supported Obama (though now he wants to be trendy by saying he doesnt support him "as much") and he supported the overthrow of Saddam. Goldman sachs has nothing to do with him or this conversation. Goldman sachs is a private organisation that can give money and support to whoever it chooses.

Cornell west is a socialist who you and other shills on this forum are trying to support because you lack a deep understanding of Libertarian principles thus you are quick to sell out to the first schmuck who says a few things bad about the "establishment." Hes no friend of real liberty lovers and should be ostracized not praised.

I noticed your view suddenly became nuanced when giving view one one of the last remaining Socialist States in the world that lives on handouts of US tax payers but did not afford same nuanced critique to West.
So let me try to break it down. Do you oppose only economic policy stances of Cornell West but support his views about imposition of a Fear Centric Police State on All Americans by "divide and conquer" money bagger class? There are two private socialist enetities, why not same level of "hatred" for both?

Goldman Sachs is very much relevant here since it is part of money baggers who engage in buying of politicians. So I ask again, is Goldman Sachs (top donor of "socialist" Obama) a Capitalist or a Socialist entity?

[pcosmar]

Cornel Ronald West (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornel_West) (born June 2, 1953) is an American philosopher, academic, activist, author, public intellectual, and prominent member of the Democratic Socialists of America.


The dude is a Socialist.

This country is socialist. Has been for a hundred years.

McCain is Socialist.
Romney is socialist.

Most of the Republican party is socialist. (except for a very few) They are every bit as socialist as the Democrat party.

Deal with reality.

[gwax23]

I noticed your view suddenly became nuanced when giving view one one of the last remaining Socialist States in the world that lives on handouts of US tax payers but did not afford same nuanced critique to West.
So let me try to break it down. Do you oppose only economic policy stances of Cornell West but support his views about imposition of a Fear Centric Police State on All Americans by "divide and conquer" money bagger class? There are two private socialist enetities, why not same level of "hatred" for both?

Goldman Sachs is very much relevant here since it is part of money baggers who engage in buying of politicians. So I ask again, is Goldman Sachs (top donor of "socialist" Obama) a Capitalist or a Socialist entity?

Last remaining socialist states in the world? I notice your views tend to be exaggerated when talking about your favorite country evar. I already denounced its economic policies, so continuing to talk about Israel just shows you lack any credible argument to defend your mancrush on Cornell West. I know his scruffy marxist facial hair gets you every time, but its about time you kept your emotions in check.

Further just because he might be right about some concept regarding the police state doesnt mean I would consider him a friend in anyway. Socialists love talking about the Police state when they are out of power, but as soon as they are in power its their only weapon to protect their regime and ther interests. Why dont you read some history instead of loving on all the BS this guy spews. So what im saying is he is either a hypocrite or ignorant of his own views since he doesnt understand the final outcomes of his twistedideology, which necessitates a police state to maintain itself. So you go on and come up with excuses for this blowhard, intellectual hack and Ill continue to shoot them down.

Lastly you consider yourself a lover of liberty but you would place restrictions on private entities (goldman sachs) from supporting political candidates you dont support? If your not saying this then what are you saying? I dont agree with the people Goldman Sachs donates too but Im not going to prevent them from donating. So again what relevance does this have? All your deflections are coming right out of the "Leftists handbook to defending the undefendable."

[pcosmar]

"Leftists handbook to defending the undependable."

That would be you.

Goldman Sucks,, is not a private entity.
They are a Government branch.. (The Rothschild Empire)

They are part of the financial arm of Global Government.

[Natural Citizen]

I dont agree with the people Goldman Sachs donates too but Im not going to prevent them from donating. So again what relevance does this have?

So then you support the merge of corporation and state. Which is defined clearly as fascism. Ah. I see now. One would be a true liberty lover by this standard?

[gwax23]

So whats your plan exactly? If you have any, besides hating all corporations and dishing out conspiracy theories left and right.

Would you support government dissolving any entity you disagree with? Or preventing them from donating money to people you dont agree with?

I sure as hell wont support that. And if that makes me a fascists or a corporate shill then so be it.

[Natural Citizen]

So whats your plan exactly?

I want to crush this illusion of personhood that these multi-national corporations enjoy. That's what I want to do. Just need the right case to come along is all to reconfigger that 14th amendment. Will most likely be acheived from the scientific community though because politically, it's loaded and those who enjoy the fruits of tyranny won't allow such a case to come into their court.

Then it's like fukin magic. Poof. Power reverts to the people. The real ones, that is.

[gwax23]

I want to crush this illusion of personhood that these multi-national corporations enjoy. That's what I want to do. Just need the right case to come along is all to reconfigger that 14th amendment. Will most likely be acheived from the scientific community though because politically, it's loaded and those who enjoy the fruits of tyranny won't allow such a case to come into their court.

Then it's like fukin magic. Poof. Power reverts to the people. The real ones, that is.


What I was able to get from this rambling nonsense is you want to end Limited Liability? Okay good luck with that, and destroying the economy.....

I think the real problem is there are so many "converted leftists" on these forums who havent completely washed away their former statist past.

[jkr]

think about it like this:
would you rather debate the issues with him or something like a clinton or neotrot on issues...the conversation is going to be bracketed in a more favorable way with west than establishment devil worshipers...

CONTROL THE CONVERSATION TO REACH NEW AUDIENCES!


L00k at this co-opertition...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNOgkvhXi9A

[enhanced_deficit]

Last remaining socialist states in the world? I notice your views tend to be exaggerated when talking about your favorite country evar. I already denounced its economic policies, so continuing to talk about Israel just shows you lack any credible argument to defend your mancrush on Cornell West. I know his scruffy marxist facial hair gets you every time, but its about time you kept your emotions in check.

Further just because he might be right about some concept regarding the police state doesnt mean I would consider him a friend in anyway. Socialists love talking about the Police state when they are out of power, but as soon as they are in power its their only weapon to protect their regime and interests. So what im saying is he is a hypocrite or ignorant since he doesnt understand the final outcomes of his ideology, which would necessitate a police state. So you go on and come up with excuses for this blowhard and Ill continue to shoot them down.

Lastly you consider yourself a lover of liberty but you would place restrictions on private entities (goldman sachs) from supporting political candidates you dont support? If your not saying this then what are you saying? I dont agree with the people Goldman Sachs donates too but Im not going to prevent them from donating. So again what relevance does this have? All your deflections are coming right out of the "Leftists handbook to defending the undependable."

Instead of personally attacking brother West, you could have directly answered the Qs I asked. Cornell West is a private citizen and is entitled to his free speech as much as if not more than Goldman Sachs is entitled to funding "Socialists" who double as tools for neocons war mongering agenda.

I said I like brother West based on what I heard in above videos. Even if he is a "socialist" who tries to stand up for the oppressed/victims of war inc's drone attacks and criticizes torturers/Wall Street swindlers...he is head and shoulders above in character over those whose wealth is made in profiteering from wars bloodbaths or many of our "socialist" politicians in both parties who prostitute for their bundlers.
Instead of trying to refute assertions that have not been even made, please ask me a dirfect Q if you are not sure about my views/ or quote me. And please answer the Q I posed.

Let me reiterate/rephrase to better understand your views:

- Do you see practitioners of Socialism ( like entities that live on US tax payers handouts) as well as private citizens who do not live on handouts but you perceive them to be advocating "socialism" as scums?

- Do you think Obama is a socialist?

- If a socialist is a "scum", what do you call who enables/funds them ?

[Natural Citizen]

What I was able to get from this rambling nonsense is you want to end Limited Liability? Okay good luck with that, and destroying the economy.....

I think the real problem is there are so many "converted leftists" on these forums who havent completely washed away their former statist past.

Uh-uh. What I want is the 14th amendment to specify natural citizen. I want "The People" defined clearly and absolutely so that they are the only (and individual) beneficiaries to the constitution and bill of rights. LL is irrelevant. And the economy is already destroyed. This is the result of propping up and letting multi-national entities assume the identity and will of the people and their processes. This is the result of placing into political application a growth versus survival model where life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness contradict one another by default when different definitions of people demand completely different, and in this case, opposing substenance for it's very survival. PAC's are another great example of this corporate skullduggery. Although tearing down what is left of it (the economy) and returning it's function to the people (the real ones) is interesting to me as well. We've become so indoctrinated by the idea that these multi-nationals who control our political processes and economy are too big to fail. And so then we ignore the fact that we've automatically been influenced by these entities to assume that the people as understood and defined by our founders are too small to succeed. And without really giving them the chance. In fact, they're slowly being removed from the political process as these PAC's begin to narrate the terms of controversy. Terms that really only serve to provide a mainstream counter platform to existing mainstream theater. It's a simple battle for citizenship and subsequent representation moving forward for the people.

So, it's not a left-right paradigm. It's a people paradigm. We would do well to remember who we are if it's our interest that premise the terms. In that regard, I'd tend to agree with you. There certainly does seem to be an identity problem.

[gwax23]

Instead of personally attacking brother West, you could have directly answered the Qs I asked. Cornell West is a private citizen and is entitled to his free speech as much as if not more than Goldman Sachs is entitled to funding "Socialists" who double as tools for neocons war mongering agenda.

I said I like brother West based on what I heard in above videos. Even if he is a "socialist" who tries to stand up for the oppressed/victims of war inc's drone attacks and criticizes torturers/Wall Street swindlers...he is head and shoulders above in character over those whose wealth is made in profiteering from wars bloodbaths or many of our "socialist" politicians in both parties who prostitute for their bundlers.
Instead of trying to refute assertions that have not been even made, please ask me a dirfect Q if you are not sure about my views/ or quote me. And please answer the Q I posed.

Let me reiterate/rephrase to better understand your views:

- Do you see practitioners of Socialism ( like entities that live on US tax payers handouts) as well as private citizens who do not live on handouts but you perceive them to be advocating "socialism" as scums?

- Do you think Obama is a socialist?

- If a socialist is a "scum", what do you call who enables/funds them ?

You claim I refute assertions not even made but the first half of your post you are doing just that. I never argued that Cornell west cant continue to spew his ignorant garbage. He has every right to be a intellectual hack and Ill defend him int hat regard, just like ill defend Goldman Sachs freedom to donate to Obama. My argument was Libertarians shouldnt support him or buy into his Bullshit. But of course you do buy into his bullshit which explains your lack of reading comprehension in regards to my posts.

Now lets answer the next round of your questions which apparently I never answer yet you keep piling them up.

- I personally dont like people who live on government handouts or people who advocate socialism. But both are different groups. The former is indirectly stealing from me so my hatred is intensified and I would want to restrict their ability to steal, the later are simply expressing their shitty views. They should be allowed to do so but Ill continue to call them idiots. Problem with this Comrade?

-Yes, though his policies are milder than he would like.

- I call them scum as well, but they are free to support them (goldman sachs)

Now more questions please...


Uh-uh. What I want is the 14th amendment to specify natural citizen. I want "The People" defined clearly and absolutely so that they are the only (and individual) beneficiaries to the constitution and bill of rights. LL is irrelevant. And the economy is already destroyed. This is the result of letting multi-national entities assume the identity and will of the people and their processes. PAC's are another great example of this corporate skullduggery. Although tearing down what is left of it (the economy) and returning it's function to the people (the real ones) is interesting to me as well. We've become so indoctrinated by the idea that these multi-nationals who control our political processes and economy are too big to fail. And so then we ignore the fact that we've automatically been influenced to assume that our people are too small to succeed. And without really giving them the chance. It's a simply battle for citizenship and subsequent representation moving forward.

All your arguments are so convoluted but I can see a glimmer of truth buried in your posts.

Corporations = Limited Liability. A fundamental aspect of the economy. They arent "People" but their shareholders arent legally liable.

Too Big too fail, has nothing to do with Limited Liability. I dont support subsidizing or propping up any failed business, whether they are LLCs or partnerships.

PACs further have nothing to do with Limited Liability and are simply a ugly bureaucratic creature of our stupid campaign finance laws. Laws which are put in place to prevent private people and organizations from donating freely to political candidates. They are the child of the same beliefs that you where espousing earlier when you wanted to/or alluded to restricting Goldman Sachs ability to donate funds to Obama.

Multinationals are just businesses that operate in different countries...whats the big deal?

You need to drop the Leftisits slogans and one liners they are ruining your logic and arguments and making you sound Ignorant. Getting rid of limited libaility will further destroy this already destroyed economy, so its a bad thing. We dont need more government restrictions we need more freedom.

[enhanced_deficit]

I think the real problem is there are so many "converted leftists" on these forums who havent completely washed away their former statist past.

Former Leftist/Marxists who join conservative movements without properly washing away their marxist mindsets are usually called neocons. There are covert neocons here? Who?

[gwax23]

Former Leftist/Marxists who join conservative movements without properly washing away their marxist mindsets are usually called neocons. There are covert neocons here? Who?

Ohhh look at this shill ignoring my entire post because he lacks the intellectual capacity to rebut my points. Ive never been a neoconservative. The worst anyone could call me (anarcho capitalists) was I was a classical Liberal. Im a Misesian Minarchist. I dont support any neoconservative principles nor did I ever. Just because I attack your blatant bias against Israel does not make me a neoconservative.

But if you want to play the name game Ill just call you a Socialist Sympathizer, mostly because you have kept your personal views so purposefully vague that I cant come up with a better derogatory name for you.

[enhanced_deficit]

Now lets answer the next round of your questions which apparently I never answer yet you keep piling them up.

- I personally dont like people who live on government handouts or people who advocate socialism. But both are different groups. The former is indirectly stealing from me so my hatred is intensified and I would want to restrict their ability to steal, the later are simply expressing their shitty views. They should be allowed to do so but Ill continue to call them idiots. Problem with this Comrade?

Now more questions please...



You have not really answered following Q, I brought this up because I perceived you supporting an actual practioner of Scialism ( a State) in the past but today showing strong hatred towards an anti-war private citizen who may have advocated socialist ideas. I'm trying to understand why you used the term "scum" for a private citizen advocate but support a practioner state of same socialist principles?

- Do you see practitioners of Socialism ( like entities that live on US tax payers handouts) as well as private citizens who do not live on handouts but you perceive them to be advocating "socialism" as scums?


I see absolutely nothing wrong with popularizing/spreading quotes cited in above videos.

[Natural Citizen]

All your arguments are so convoluted but I can see a glimmer of truth buried in your posts.

Corporations = Limited Liability. A fundamental aspect of the economy. They arent "People" but their shareholders arent legally liable.

Too Big too fail, has nothing to do with Limited Liability. I dont support subsidizing or propping up any failed business, whether they are LLCs or partnerships.

PACs further have nothing to do with Limited Liability and are simply a ugly bureaucratic creature of our stupid campaign finance laws. Laws which are put in place to prevent private people and organizations from donating freely to political candidates. They are the child of the same beliefs that you where espousing earlier when you wanted to/or alluded to restricting Goldman Sachs ability to donate funds to Obama.

Multinationals are just businesses that operate in different countries...whats the big deal?

You need to drop the Leftisits slogans and one liners they are ruining your logic and arguments and making you sound Ignorant. Getting rid of limited libaility will further destroy this already destroyed economy, so its a bad thing. We dont need more government restrictions we need more freedom.

You're the only person here talking about LL. If my logic sounds ignorant it's because you're ignoring it and spinning it into some kind of rebuttal to your narrative. Which it's not. You're the only one arguing about limited liability. I said that limited liability was irrelevant to my posting. Which it is. You're avoiding the nuts and bolts of what I said in order to keep your spin afloat. A classic reframe.

My logic is spot on should you choose to address it instead of ignoring it. Hopefully others will read my posting for what it is instead of what you spun it into.

And you don't think it's a big deal that we have multi-national corporations benefitting from the gift of constitution to hijack and influence political processes of the people in which it was truly written for? You don't think it's a big deal that they do so for the interest of their growth model alone and to hell with the people who these representatives were elected to represent?

Do I have to start naming off corporations and politicians who do this and point out the fruits of the mergers? If you want to insult my logic, I'm OK with it, but I know a thing or three about this and that.

[gwax23]

You have not really answered following Q, I brought this up because I perceived you supporting an actual practioner of Scialism ( a State) in the past but today showing strong hatred towards an anti-war private citizen who may have advocated socialist ideas. I'm trying to understand why you used the term "scum" for a private citizen advocate but support a practioner state of same socialist principles?

- Do you see practitioners of Socialism ( like entities that live on US tax payers handouts) as well as private citizens who do not live on handouts but you perceive them to be advocating "socialism" as scums?


I see absolutely nothing wrong with popularizing/spreading quotes cited in above videos.

I love how in this very thread I said "I despise Israels economic policy" but you keep acting like I support it. Whats your definition of supporting Israel anyway? Me posting on this forum about them....? Ive made it very clear both here in this thread and in my other posts I dont support Israel 100% but I love to attack its ignorant haters in order to point out the bias and inconsistencies in their logic. Thats why your threads are so fun to rip apart.

I await your next post where you claim I still havent answered one of your questions. I will proceed to continue to answer them while you continue to ignore the substance of my posts. Though Ill give you credit you didnt run away and disapear from this thread as is your usual MO. Further you are being quite honest in your love of a socialist so Ill give you points there.



You're the only person here talking about LL. If my logic sounds ignorant it's because you're ignoring it and spinning it into some kind of rebuttal to your narrative. Which it's not. You're the only one arguing about limited liability. You're avoiding the nuts and bots of what I said. A classic reframe.

My logic is spot on should you choose to address it instead of ignoring it. Hopefully others will read my posting for what it is instead of what you spun it into.

Ignore my point about there being a glimmer of truth in your post. I take that back. You ramble on about corporations and corporate person hood yet you dont even understand the concept of limited liability.

[Natural Citizen]

Ignore my point about there being a glimmer of truth in your post. I take that back. You ramble on about corporations and corporate person hood yet you dont even understand the concept of limited liability.

It's irrelevant to my point. And I'm not rambling on about corporations and corporate personhood.

As I said. The issue in scope is one of citizenship and representation. If you're a fascist thinker and want multi-national corporations repatriating the nation and screw what the real ones think (because, oh nos...that's socialism) then big deal. I can live with your opinion.

[enhanced_deficit]

I love how in this very thread I said "I despite Israels economic policy" but you keep acting like I support it. Whats your definition of supporting Israel anyway? Me posting on this forum about them....? Ive made it very clear both here in this thread and in my other posts I dont support Israel 100%



I proposed we libertrians sell our souls in order to win over socialist scum like Cornell West who thinks the establishment isnt big enough.

It is fun to have differing views but I found your drastic difference in chacterizing two "socialists" entities a bit prejudiced or biased.

I don't agree with Cornell West 100% but I like his candid criticisms on issues he raised above and his convictions. Someday I might find time to learn about his economic policy stances and will comment on that then. On issue of war inc and fear centric police state, he seems like Jesus telling the truth to the power. How can anyone not support what he is saying above. I would encourage you to be just as nuenced in criticism of his economic policy stances as you are of other socialist entities you "don't support 100%" without making things overly personal.

[gwax23]

It's irrelevant to my point. And I'm not rambling on about corporations and corporate personhood.

As I said. The issue in scope is one of citizenship and representation. If you're a fascist thinker and want multi-national corporations repatriating the nation then big deal. I can live with your opinion.

Do corporations have citizenship? Do they get to vote? Corporate person hood is usually in reference to Corporations being a separate Legal entity from their shareholders (Limited Liability) which as Ive tried to explain is not a bad thing, but a fundamental part of a free market economy. Unless your definition of Corporate Person hood is different somehow. Lastly I have no idea what "...multi-national corporations repatriating the nation..." means.

[gwax23]

It is fun to have differing views but I found your drastic difference in chacterizing two "socialists" entities a bit prejudiced or biased.

I don't agree with Cornell West 100% but I like his candid criticisms on issues he raised above and his convictions. Someday I might find time to learn about his economic policy stances and will comment on that then. On issue of war inc and fear centric police state, he seems like Jesus telling the truth to the power. How can anyone not support what he is saying above. I would encourage you to be just as nuenced in criticism of his economic policy stances as you are of other socialist entities you "don't support 100%" without making things overly personal.

What a powerful argument. You dont like my wording.

Israels economic polices are shit and based on scummy socialism? Is that better for you? Now whats your argument...if you have one. Israel last I checked is a country so obviously people will refer to it with different derogatory terms than they would an individual. Ive never called the nation of North Korea "scum"...as it would sound stupid and weird, not because I dont think negatively of it. I would probably call it a Shithole.

Cornell west strongly supports the "Drone king" obama, he supports a police state but lies about it to win over chumps like you, he supported kicking Saddam out of power, he supports the use of force to create his socialist utopia. If you support him your a "socialist scum." Who cares if you superficially like how he attacks a few neoconservatives who are nothing more than a different strain of socialism compared to his own socialist strain.

[Natural Citizen]

Do corporations have citizenship? Do they get to vote? Corporate person hood is usually in reference to Corporations being a separate Legal entity from their shareholders (Limited Liability) which as Ive tried to explain is not a bad thing, but a fundamental part of a free market economy. Unless your definition of Corporate Person hood is different somehow. Lastly I have no idea what "...multi-national corporations repatriating the nation..." means.

Ah. I see. I have to go out right this second and pick people up from the airport but will come back to this when I get back.

You know, I tried to see if you were going to revert to a hostile discussion with that last post and wasn't going to continue if you did. But you didn't which I think is commendable so sorry for tinkering with you like that. That's a couple of good questions you ask but I'm going to have to finish when I get back.

[enhanced_deficit]

He only attacks it because he wishes to create a bigger socialist utopia.

Could be, but he at least has convictions and is not shy to say what he thinks.

Cornel West: Obama a 'war criminal'- POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/cornel-west-obama-a-war-criminal-87702.html)
www.politico.com/story/.../cornel-west-obama-a-war-criminal-87702.ht...‎ (http://www.politico.com/story/.../cornel-west-obama-a-war-criminal-87702.ht...‎)
Feb 15, 2013 - Professor Cornel West continues to be an outspoken critic of Barack Obama, this time likening the president to a “war criminal.” During the ...

[Natural Citizen]

Do corporations have citizenship? Do they get to vote? Corporate person hood is usually in reference to Corporations being a separate Legal entity from their shareholders (Limited Liability) which as Ive tried to explain is not a bad thing, but a fundamental part of a free market economy. Unless your definition of Corporate Person hood is different somehow. Lastly I have no idea what "...multi-national corporations repatriating the nation..." means.

OK. So...hm. I actually got to think about this on the way and it put me in a bad mood just thinking of it. The first thing I'd mention is the Transatlantic Trade Partnership. That's a big deal. And it's happening in secret. This is a corporate power grab that not only dictates U.S. policy but foreign policy as well. Again...this is happening in secret. The people have no say so or means to find out what is going on. I don't know how far you want to get into this but one can certainly make a case that there is corporate infiltration in government processes here which have traditionally been reserved for the people who elect representatives to office.

When I say corporate personhood, what I mean is that they (mistakenly) have the gift of constitution. This means that they have acheived illegitimate representation. (attained via misinterpretation Santa Clara County versus Pacific Railroad, 1886 specifically). And what has happened is that they have not only begun to write legislation but they lobby to have what has become their representatives to vote accordingly. Presidency is nothing. What I'm talking about is influencing legislation and, of course, lobbying for special interest. I don't really feel like itemizing every politician and industry doing it but I suppose that we could if anyone is interested. I'd start with Monsanto and agribusiness for starters. With that though, we start to shed light on what our representatives truly support to include aspects of the Transatlantic Trade Partnership because by not discussing it they get a free pass and the wool gets pulled over the eyes of the people even further.

So, when we talk about a corporate repatriation of America this is where we begin. Even though, technically, they don't have the gift of constitution to influence the affairs of the people. We just think they do. Which they don't. And we should clarify this in the 14th amendment by specifically defining person or citizen.

[pcosmar]

Would you support government dissolving any entity you disagree with?
.

No,, But I would support disbanding Corporations,, and removing all the laws that created them from the books.
All benefits,, subsidies and all protections.

I would also support the elimination of the Federal Reserve, banking reforms to prevent any such entity from ever being attempted again.

But that ain't gonna happen,,

It's a nice fantasy though.

As far as campaign donations. Any individual could donate a fixed amount to anyone,,(say $10),, But no business or PACs.
Individual to individual only.

[Dianne]

If I learned nothing else from this, I did learn that Governor Rockefeller ordered a surge against the prison; a big shoot em up, killing prison guards as well? Shows how well you can trust your Government, even when you're employed by them.

Lots of sense in what he is saying. Our entire government (except a very small minority), are pimps and whores ... And those pimps and whores are attacking the few honest representatives we have.