Italian court finds ‘romance’ in 60-year-old man’s sex with 11-year-old, overturns sentence

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/italian-high-court-finds-romance-in-60-year-old-mans-sex-with-11-year-old-o


Italian high court finds ‘romance’ in 60-year-old man’s sex with 11-year-old, overturns sentence

An Italian high court has dismissed the sentence in a case of pedophilia on the grounds that there was “romance” involved between the 60 year-old social services worker and the 11 year-old girl in his care.

Pietro Lamberti, who works for the social services department of Catanzaro in Calabria in the south, was found in bed with the girl, described as “disadvantaged” in the press, by local police who raided his house in June 2011. The Court of Cassation overturned a five-year sentence for a conviction of sexual violence against a minor.

Italy’s age of consent is 14 and rises to 16 when the older party is judged to be in a position of authority over the child.

The court ruled to overturn the sentence upon hearing claims that the girl was “in love” with the man and pursued him. The case must now return to the local court in Cantazaro for retrial. Police said they had gathered evidence from “hundreds” of wiretaps of telephone conversations.

[mad cow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTM40o3WgZo

[AngryCanadian]

Does the Girl have any parents? because either way i would bet he was offering her bribes of money and toys either way the Judge was stupid on this decision.

[Christian Liberty]

If I were the parent of an 11 year old girl (That would be messed up in itself since I'm 18, but just for the sake of argument) and this happened, I'd take out both the 60 year old man and the judge.

This is the problem I have with the hardcore "No age of consent" crowd. I don't know what the answers are there. I know its somewhat arbitrary. I guess some people have a conscience and know "Sick" when they see it... and some people don't.

[alucard13mm]

I was wondering when the pedo people will ride the homosexual coattails.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Awwww

http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/274942/274942,1300452536,2/stock-vector-puppy-love-a-simple-graphic-for-dog-lovers-73404100.jpg

aka a "crush" on a teacher or someone else around them. Tends to happen around that age, I guess... <shrugs>

-t

[J_White]

:eek:

[acptulsa]

I thought to myself, 'Couldn't happen.' Then I saw...


...between the 60 year-old social services worker and the 11 year-old girl in his care.

Ah, the Italian Just Us System at work. He was not only manipulating an impressionable child, he was using official state authority to pressure her. No wonder he got away with it.

Mussolini would be proud.

[tod evans]

Orphans really seemed to fare better in the hands of those "Mean ol' Nuns"..

That said any government employee who "romances" my child will have bitten off more than they can chew.

[samforpaul]

I was wondering when the pedo people will ride the homosexual coattails.


And the beastials after that.

[jmdrake]

A) What the hell?

B) Notice that this slimeball was a government worker put in charge of little kids. Had he been some 16 year old boy with a 13 year old girlfriend they would have thrown the book at him.

C) The U.S. government awrds defense contracts to evil people like him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2oQExxGmU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6VjmRgywU4

[Christian Liberty]

And the beastials after that.

Other than "perverted" I don't see any real comparison there. Destroying a child is far worse...

[ZENemy]

And the beastials after that.

Sex with animals was legalized in the 2012 NDAA.

[FindLiberty]

If he was 65 and the girl 16, this all would have been legal...

Love is strange, but clearly in this case IT WAS ILLEGAL. That girl needed to be 5 years older 'cause the minimum legal age is 16 for this "relationship" with her 60 year old care giver, not 11 years.

"Love" should have waited 5 more years...

[Christian Liberty]

If he was 65 and the girl 16, this all would have been legal...

Love is strange, but clearly in this case IT WAS ILLEGAL. That girl needed to be 5 years older 'cause the minimum legal age is 16 for this "relationship" with her 60 year old care giver, not 11 years.

"Love" should have waited 5 more years...

I'm a littie iffy on what the age of consent "should" be, but obviously at some point people have the right to make their own decisions, even if those decisions are sick. I know 16 year olds aren't considered adults in the US generally. I know 18 is kind of arbitrary though, I don't have any particularly good reason for that number. 16 seems "borderline" while 11 seems clearly not old enough, so make of that what you will.

I generally think Rothbard and Block have the right kind of idea with trying to attach maturity with actually exercising said maturity, rather than an arbitrary number, but even then, numbers are still going to have to play into it with some extent. If a 7 year old runs away from home, he's either doing so because conditions are awful at home or because he's simply not thinking, he's not doing it because he's ready to live alone. Yet technically Rothbardian theory would allow for that.

Ugh. I just don't know.

[pcosmar]

I am not inclined to defend this decision.

But from the comments and reactions to this I have to wonder,, do any here understand the definition of the word seduce?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/seduce

1. To lead away from duty, accepted principles, or proper conduct. See Synonyms at lure.
2. To induce to engage in sex.
3.
a. To entice or beguile into a desired state or position.
b. To win over; attract.

Do you believe it is possible/impossible for a young girl to be predatory?

I offer no justification for this guy.. he obviously should have known better.
But from the story it sounds like this was initiated by the girl,, and apparently the court saw that too.

[angelatc]

But from the story it sounds like this was initiated by the girl,, and apparently the court saw that too.

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

[dannno]

Do you believe it is possible/impossible for a young girl to be predatory?



The court heard that Lamberti had tried to dissuade the girl and refrain from consummating the relationship for fear of impregnating her.

Well at least she was menstruating.. How did they know he had tried to dissuade her? How much effort did he put into that?


Police said they had gathered evidence from “hundreds” of wiretaps of telephone conversations.

Wow, hundreds... this girl wouldn't give up would she?



I am not inclined to defend this decision.

And I am inclined to agree with you .. I would probably convict him of something but would not treat him the same way as a predatory adult and certainly not in the same category as a violent predatory adult. This guy wasn't even asking for it, it came to his door and wouldn't leave. It sounds like this girl was intent on having sex and if he had just straight up rejected her, whose to say that she wouldn't have ended up with an inexperienced 15 year old who instead got her pregnant and then just left her? If a girl wants to find somebody to have sex with it isn't difficult at all compared to if you are a male. So which would be a better situation for the girl to find herself in, pregnant single mom at age 11 or eventually breaking up with the older dude as she grows out of the relationship? I don't know if I have the answer, maybe somebody could help fill in why being a single mom at age 11 with a drug addicted dead beat dad is preferable to a temporary relationship with a more responsible adult, even if it maybe should not be legal in these extreme circumstances. I mean, I understand why just allowing this as normal in society can be dangerous because it may cause more predatory actions on the part of men towards younger girls, and that is why I am ok with it being illegal.. however in determining these standards and ages I think what I just said is important to take into account.



I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

I totally agree, and I think pcosmar would as well. That is certainly the action I would take in that situation.



She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally.

I think when they start menstruating they begin to find other interests very quickly. When I was in the 11/12 range there were guys and girls in my class already playing strip poker and experimenting with sex, and I believe the girls were initiating most of it. On the one hand, people say that kids should be experimenting with partners their own age, but on the other hand that leaves two very young and relatively inexperienced people doing something with potentially disastrous consequences. Consider that having one responsible person in the relationship makes the entire relationship attain a greater level of responsibility. Then you have to balance that with the other side of the argument. Not always an easy decision.

[amy31416]

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

We still played with dolls, dress-up, etc. at that age. Much later, I babysat one girl around that age who was hypersexual, but I'm almost positive she was sexually abused.

I would hope that even Dannno can see how wrong it is for a social services worker to act out with this girl.

[Christian Liberty]

We still played with dolls, dress-up, etc. at that age. Much later, I babysat one girl around that age who was hypersexual, but I'm almost positive she was sexually abused.

I would hope that even Dannno can see how wrong it is for a social services worker to act out with this girl.

He seems to be saying it is, but I see no reason to make the distinction he makes from rape in this case. If she was at least a teenager, maybe, but 11? I think natural law tells us that's messed up.

If I were the parent I'd still shoot him between the eyes.

[angelatc]

We still played with dolls, dress-up, etc. at that age. Much later, I babysat one girl around that age who was hypersexual, but I'm almost positive she was sexually abused.

I would hope that even Dannno can see how wrong it is for a social services worker to act out with this girl.


He referred to her as "it."

[dannno]

He referred to her as "it."

Heh, ya, that part was an analogy to a kitty cat that keeps showing up at your door and meowing for attention.

[amy31416]

He referred to her as "it."

I noticed that. Rather telling.

The honesty is good in one sense--my daughter will know about men like him when the time is right.

[amy31416]

Heh, ya, that part was an analogy to a kitty cat that keeps showing up at your door and meowing for attention.

Heh, great analogy Dannno! A kid (kitty cat) needs a father figure, love and affection--instead you fuck it because someone else might who's a worse person than you.

No wonder so many predators hang out in the mobile home parks and ghettos--so many stray cats, so little time--and they're all convinced that they're "helping." I bet that Ariel Castro guy thought along those lines.

[Keith and stuff]

If I were the parent of an 11 year old girl (That would be messed up in itself since I'm 18, but just for the sake of argument) and this happened, I'd take out both the 60 year old man and the judge.
Who cares about facts? Murdering 2 people is always the right thing to do!

Why do you troll so much about dark things? Please tell us, you were trolling, right?

[angelatc]

Heh, ya, that part was an analogy to a kitty cat that keeps showing up at your door and meowing for attention.

Speechless.

Doubling down on the dehumanization.

[pcosmar]

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

Years ago I lived with a girl,, and still love her to be honest.
She was 15 when I met her.. I was 20 and had sex exactly once before.
She was experienced.. and had been since she was 11 YEARS OLD.

I had a girlfriend in High school,, I found out after she broke up with me that she just turned 12.. She was dating a guy from the AF Base,, (because he had a car)
I never had sex with her,, but that was because of my lack of resources,, not her intent.

Yes,, little girls can be interested in more than dolls.

I avoid them diligently.. because I have no illusions.

[Ender]

When my one and only sis was 11, she looked (and acted) 18. Had to keep the guys away with a bat.

And I was younger than her. ;)

[Christian Liberty]

Who cares about facts? Murdering 2 people is always the right thing to do!

Why do you troll so much about dark things? Please tell us, you were trolling, right?
If a government worker assaulted an 11 year old who was closely related to me and the justice system didn't take care of that, I would.

No, I'm not trolling. Deal with it, beltway.

[pcosmar]

If a government worker assaulted an 11 year old

From the story,, he resisted her advances for some time..
And from the fact that there were wiretap recordings,, it would appear that she was deliberately setting him up.

I would question who was assaulted here.

[2young2vote]

Sexual attraction has nothing to do with maturity or romance. When a child is behaving based on their emotions, they need to be corrected. She may have been sexually attracted to the man, but at that age they are still not mentally developed enough to actually know what they are doing and understand the consequences. Although, to be honest, I think I could say that about 99.99% of adults too, so I guess I have no argument here.

[amy31416]

Years ago I lived with a girl,, and still love her to be honest.
She was 15 when I met her.. I was 20 and had sex exactly once before.
She was experienced.. and had been since she was 11 YEARS OLD.

I had a girlfriend in High school,, I found out after she broke up with me that she just turned 12.. She was dating a guy from the AF Base,, (because he had a car)
I never had sex with her,, but that was because of my lack of resources,, not her intent.

Yes,, little girls can be interested in more than dolls.

I avoid them diligently.. because I have no illusions.

You had an 11 year old gf, how nice! She'd had sex since she was 11 YEARS OLD! How wonderful!

Girls like that generally come from broken homes with no father and a messed up mother who don't give a shit about them. I went to a public middle school, and that was almost always the case--they were generally bullies too, who picked on the nerds like me. At least I understand where their anger came from now, and would never take advantage of them. On a field trip with one of these "hypersexual" bullies, I'd had enough of her and didn't care if she beat the shit out of me or not anymore--so I gave her absolute hell and she buckled like a belt. She cried for at least two hours and it turned out that her life was absolute hell.

So yeah, little girls can be interested in plenty of things, but a real man will ask himself why an 11 year old is showing "romantic" interest. And barring some hormonal outlier, you have to have the sense to realize that things are probably not as they seem.

[idiom]

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

Its perfectly biblical.

If you are not married shortly after you hit puberty, you chances of committing grievous carnal sin goes up tremendously.

Bible says they should be married immediately.

[pcosmar]

You had an 11 year old gf, how nice! She'd had sex since she was 11 YEARS OLD! How wonderful!


Yes,, in high school. and I was a young boy that was interested in losing my virginity.
That did not happen till several years later,, but not for lack of trying.

And yes,, she was attractive and well endowed,, and was quite sexually aggressive. However I lived out of town,, and never had time and place coordinated .
(if there was a place ,,there was no time,, If there was time,,there was no place)

Very likely why she dumped me for an older guy with a car.

I have always been attracted to aggressive (predatory) women. ;)

[amy31416]

Its perfectly biblical.

If you are not married shortly after you hit puberty, you chances of committing grievous carnal sin goes up tremendously.

Bible says they should be married immediately.

So is rape, genocide, incest, murder, etc.

[Seraphim]

ya....that's not "normal"....these days...Would be better if it was, no doubt.

Fact is, a lot of them are soliciting themselves for 10$ blowjobs, or giving it away for free to older guys who buy them the fast food, makeup and beer their parents won't buy them.

That is insanely closer to "normal" these days. Sad...

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.

[Christian Liberty]

From the story,, he resisted her advances for some time..
And from the fact that there were wiretap recordings,, it would appear that she was deliberately setting him up.

I would question who was assaulted here.

First of all, I have a hard time believing that. I know that's what you read in the story, but I have doubts that it actually happened that way. Maybe I'm wrong.

Second of all, I don't see how anything you did in high school possibly compares to a 60 year old with an 11 year old. A 15 year old with an 11 year old is still wrong, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're not talking about two underage people here. We're talking about an elderly man (Well, maybe debatable, but still) with an 11 year old child.




Its perfectly biblical.

If you are not married shortly after you hit puberty, you chances of committing grievous carnal sin goes up tremendously.

Bible says they should be married immediately.

No, the Bible does not say any such thing. However, in the biblical era people matured faster anyway, so that would change things. A 49 year age differential is still ridiculous, however.

[jmdrake]

We still played with dolls, dress-up, etc. at that age. Much later, I babysat one girl around that age who was hypersexual, but I'm almost positive she was sexually abused.

I would hope that even Dannno can see how wrong it is for a social services worker to act out with this girl.

Key words in bold. As Angelatc pointed out, the old dude should have gotten her help. But worse, he was regarded as help. Which makes me wonder how many times he's done this before.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Heh, great analogy Dannno! A kid (kitty cat) needs a father figure, love and affection--instead you fuck it because someone else might who's a worse person than you.

No wonder so many predators hang out in the mobile home parks and ghettos--so many stray cats, so little time--and they're all convinced that they're "helping." I bet that Ariel Castro guy thought along those lines.

You're taking advantage of flawed premises & slanted language. Words like "fuck" and "bang" convey a violent, selfish attitude about sex that stems from our cultural conceits. There is no *logical* reason why sex has to be malevolent in any way. There is no logical reason why you can't be romantic to a young woman while helping her with other stuff, regardless of age. If sexual or romantic interest in a much younger person is sick, twisted & conveys an evil malevolent attitude, then why does the same interest convey none of these things when ages are like?

If I punch a 40 year old, a 20 year old and a 13 year old, I have conveyed the same basic violent malevolence to all three. But if I kiss all three of them, as a man of 33 yrs. it goes from "aww" to "weird" to "sick." And whenever people try to explain why, the "explanation" is usually to simply state their conclusion again & again as if that should convince me. Because you kissed a 13 year old! That's sick! Because it is, that's why!

"A 13 year old can't consent to such an important life-changing experience." Okay, then stop all 13 year olds from kissing each other. Oh, and take them out of music school, football practice, political studies & all other life-changing experiences that they obviously can't consent to.

"A 13 year old can't understand love." From my experience most 30 year olds are too stupid to find their own genitals, let alone understand love. Should we ban marriage among these people? Look at the divorce rate, it would save a lot of trouble.

That said, my problem isn't that an adult & a child have a romantic relationship in the case in question, my issue is that if they really did have SEX, i.e. sexual intercourse, that is very dangerous and a physical risk to an 11 year old. Very very bad. If the old guy really allowed this girl to seduce him in THAT way he should be subject to the law. Not for any American "sick pedos die" non-argument, but because he threatened the little girl's physical well being with a stupid unnecessary act.

[Christian Liberty]

If I punch a 40 year old, a 20 year old and a 13 year old, I have conveyed the same basic violent malevolence to all three. But if I kiss all three of them, as a man of 33 yrs. it goes from "aww" to "weird" to "sick." And whenever people try to explain why, the "explanation" is usually to simply state their conclusion again & again as if that should convince me. Because you kissed a 13 year old! That's sick! Because it is, that's why!

Two 13 year olds are both at a similar rate of maturity. The same cannot be said for a 33 year old to a 13 year old.

And yeah, I'm cool with anyone who acts out their pedophilia on a child being put to death.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Well at least she was menstruating.. How did they know he had tried to dissuade her? How much effort did he put into that?



Wow, hundreds... this girl wouldn't give up would she?




And I am inclined to agree with you .. I would probably convict him of something but would not treat him the same way as a predatory adult and certainly not in the same category as a violent predatory adult. This guy wasn't even asking for it, it came to his door and wouldn't leave. It sounds like this girl was intent on having sex and if he had just straight up rejected her, whose to say that she wouldn't have ended up with an inexperienced 15 year old who instead got her pregnant and then just left her? If a girl wants to find somebody to have sex with it isn't difficult at all compared to if you are a male. So which would be a better situation for the girl to find herself in, pregnant single mom at age 11 or eventually breaking up with the older dude as she grows out of the relationship? I don't know if I have the answer, maybe somebody could help fill in why being a single mom at age 11 with a drug addicted dead beat dad is preferable to a temporary relationship with a more responsible adult, even if it maybe should not be legal in these extreme circumstances. I mean, I understand why just allowing this as normal in society can be dangerous because it may cause more predatory actions on the part of men towards younger girls, and that is why I am ok with it being illegal.. however in determining these standards and ages I think what I just said is important to take into account.




I totally agree, and I think pcosmar would as well. That is certainly the action I would take in that situation.




I think when they start menstruating they begin to find other interests very quickly. When I was in the 11/12 range there were guys and girls in my class already playing strip poker and experimenting with sex, and I believe the girls were initiating most of it. On the one hand, people say that kids should be experimenting with partners their own age, but on the other hand that leaves two very young and relatively inexperienced people doing something with potentially disastrous consequences. Consider that having one responsible person in the relationship makes the entire relationship attain a greater level of responsibility. Then you have to balance that with the other side of the argument. Not always an easy decision.

Dannno, you're trying to bring pure reason into an issue where pure reason has been quite literally outlawed.

[KurtBoyer25L]

Two 13 year olds are both at a similar rate of maturity. The same cannot be said for a 33 year old to a 13 year old.

And yeah, I'm cool with anyone who acts out their pedophilia on a child being put to death.

So anytime a more mature person engages in an emotional experience w/ a less mature person, the more-mature person should be put to death on that basis? Why FF, we're going to have to kill everyone who has ever hugged you.

[Christian Liberty]

So anytime a more mature person engages in an emotional experience w/ a less mature person, the more-mature person should be put to death on that basis? Why FF, we're going to have to kill everyone who has ever hugged you.

You're connecting two unconnected thoughts there. Unless you think anyone who hugs someone is acting out their pedophilia.

[amy31416]

You're taking advantage of flawed premises & slanted language. Words like "fuck" and "bang" convey a violent, selfish attitude about sex that stems from our cultural conceits. There is no *logical* reason why sex has to be malevolent in any way. There is no logical reason why you can't be romantic to a young woman while helping her with other stuff, regardless of age. If sexual or romantic interest in a much younger person is sick, twisted & conveys an evil malevolent attitude, then why does the same interest convey none of these things when ages are like?

If I punch a 40 year old, a 20 year old and a 13 year old, I have conveyed the same basic violent malevolence to all three. But if I kiss all three of them, as a man of 33 yrs. it goes from "aww" to "weird" to "sick." And whenever people try to explain why, the "explanation" is usually to simply state their conclusion again & again as if that should convince me. Because you kissed a 13 year old! That's sick! Because it is, that's why!

"A 13 year old can't consent to such an important life-changing experience." Okay, then stop all 13 year olds from kissing each other. Oh, and take them out of music school, football practice, political studies & all other life-changing experiences that they obviously can't consent to.

"A 13 year old can't understand love." From my experience most 30 year olds are too stupid to find their own genitals, let alone understand love. Should we ban marriage among these people? Look at the divorce rate, it would save a lot of trouble.

That said, my problem isn't that an adult & a child have a romantic relationship in the case in question, my issue is that if they really did have SEX, i.e. sexual intercourse, that is very dangerous and a physical risk to an 11 year old. Very very bad. If the old guy really allowed this girl to seduce him in THAT way he should be subject to the law. Not for any American "sick pedos die" non-argument, but because he threatened the little girl's physical well being with a stupid unnecessary act.

Kurt--if you have a daughter and want to hand her over to Dannno for some therapeutic fucking when she's 11 years old, be my guest. I'll continue to think that it's probably a really awful idea, and much worse than when a little girl/boy kiss or hold hands.

If you think there's no logic or rationale behind that (like protecting a child's psyche), then you might want to re-think. It's not just a mindless "eww, that's gross" reaction, it's instinct to protect your children from predators...and most 60 year-olds who want to make out with an 11-year old are going to ditch her for another 11 year old in a year or two.

Divorce/romance/etc among adults is a different subject--and plenty of marriages DO work out.

[dannno]

Heh, great analogy Dannno! A kid (kitty cat) needs a father figure, love and affection--instead you fuck it because someone else might who's a worse person than you.


Me?


He's supposed to get her help, not laid.



I totally agree, and I think pcosmar would as well. That is certainly the action I would take in that situation.

[dannno]

Wow amy, only you can turn me saying that he shouldn't have done it and should have helped her, but since he did it should be guilty of a crime, prosecuted and spend some time in jail into me wanting to have sex with 11 year olds (which for the record I do not).

[KurtBoyer25L]

Kurt--if you have a daughter and want to hand her over to Dannno for some therapeutic fucking when she's 11 years old, be my guest. I'll continue to think that it's probably a really awful idea, and much worse than when a little girl/boy kiss or hold hands.

If you think there's no logic or rationale behind that (like protecting a child's psyche), then you might want to re-think. It's not just a mindless "eww, that's gross" reaction, it's instinct to protect your children from predators...and most 60 year-olds who want to make out with an 11-year old are going to ditch her for another 11 year old in a year or two.

Divorce/romance/etc among adults is a different subject--and plenty of marriages DO work out.

First of all, you're not reading what I wrote. Most of us use the word "fuck" to mean sexual intercourse. Nobody should ever have sexual intercourse w/ a kid, because it's physically damaging in many cases, which supersedes any sex-positive vs. sex-negative arguments. (All due respect to Aristotle & Alexander's nights out on the veranda but Aristotle should have kept it in his pants.)

I wouldn't turn anyone over to anyone so they could do something dangerous & stupid like have intercourse w/ a child. But I respect Dannno enough to know that if he hung out with my kid daughter, regardless of what the relationship ended up as they wouldn't do any "fucking".

The "logic" behind protecting an adolescent girl from an older man's romantic notions is based on premises. If an alien visited us from a planet where sex was considered an act of kindness & accepted everywhere, you couldn't just say "we're jailing that horny man to protect our daughters psychologically." She wouldn't understand because that isn't where the logic begins. There wouldn't be an automatic assumption of "danger" unless there are deeper assumptions about sexuality.

For instance, the word "predator" has connotations of a larger animal killing & eating a smaller one. You can sound very logical saying you must protect young people from predators, but not as logical saying you must protect them from love.

I would rather my daughter saw other individuals as people and not ____ year olds. As Dannno pointed out, there are plenty of teenage boys with very, very hideous attitudes about girls & sex. We give them a pass for it even when they cause irreparable psychological damage to young women. Because we see them as ____ year olds and not people. Or, we say they're not "mature" enough to understand why you shouldn't secretly hate your girlfriend & joke to your buddies about how you took advantage of her. Personally, I think that's a load of crap. A 7 year old should be able to understand why it's wrong to be a sadistic liar. It's not complicated.

The best argument I've ever heard for the proverbial Freudian-horny dad beating up his daughter's older suitors is that since we live in an irrational sex-negative culture, most guys are into her for selfish/shallow reasons, so it's best to always assume the worst. That makes a lot of sense, but it fails to explain why we shouldn't protect our daughters from younger men just as vigorously, and it fails to explain why we don't counsel all women to stay away from men their whole lives.

[Keith and stuff]

You're connecting two unconnected thoughts there. Unless you think anyone who hugs someone is acting out their pedophilia.

Stop advocating the murder of innocent people! That is NOT right. A judge says something you disagree with and you want him murdered? That's not right. Seriously man, I think I am scared of you.

And you know as well as everything that this thread has zero to do with pedophilia. Why do you want to bring that up? Please stop this...

[KurtBoyer25L]

You're connecting two unconnected thoughts there. Unless you think anyone who hugs someone is acting out their pedophilia.

Kissing and hugging are both expressions of emotion. If I concluded that platonic affection between two non-like ages is "sick" then I have equally as much logical ground as you do saying that the romantic affection is sick. Sorry if this sounds snobby, but I'm arguing from the bedrock of reasoning here & you've only dug about 2 feet into the organized churchy puritan sex-negative ground you're standing on.

And as Keith points out (I think?), people who are interested in adolescent girls are hebephiles, not pedophiles.

[gwax23]

This is sick

[klamath]

Just the simple fact that adults need to protect children or the whole human race dies off is what makes this wrong. That isn't debatable. When you don't protect them you are breaking the strongest code in human survivial. When an 11 year old girl thinks she wants sex she doesn't have the maturity to make that decision. The consequences of can also be harmful to both her body and her child if she does becomes pregnant. Does she know ANYTHING about being a mother? Does she have ANY clue what she is agreeing to if she is talked into an abortion? The man wasn't protecting her and he was in charge of protecting her. No excuses. Saying she was the preditor is flat out bullshit. She is a child. How many times does a child beg for something that will harm them because they THINK they want it.
When my granddaughter begged me to let her go down a black diamond ski slope when I knew she wasn't ready I told her no. When she kept begging I told her to make a sweeping S turn we would talk. She tried it and crashed. She quit begging.

[pcosmar]

And yeah, I'm cool with anyone who acts out their pedophilia on a child being put to death.

Having sex with a sexually active adolescent is NOT Pedophilia.
It is unwise. It is often illegal,

But it is not Pedophilia.

[Czolgosz]

Newton's third takes care of most things, but anomalies will get through...and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Thus, writing laws which hinder and endanger freedom are unnecessary and stupid. "Age of consent," included.

[pcosmar]

Second of all, I don't see how anything you did in high school possibly compares to a 60 year old with an 11 year old. A 15 year old with an 11 year old is still wrong,

My point was,, that some girls at 11 years old are quite capable of having their own sexual intentions.. And being predatory in fulfilling those intentions.

I am not trying to justify what happened,, There is too little information in the news article. But apparently,, the court looked at the Girls stated intentions in overturning the original conviction.

He may still be convicted in a new trial..

[Philhelm]

But I respect Dannno enough to know that if he hung out with my kid daughter, regardless of what the relationship ended up as they wouldn't do any "fucking".

Would ass-to-mouth count as "fucking?"

[amy31416]

,,,,,,,,,

[amy31416]

First of all, you're not reading what I wrote. Most of us use the word "fuck" to mean sexual intercourse. Nobody should ever have sexual intercourse w/ a kid, because it's physically damaging in many cases, which supersedes any sex-positive vs. sex-negative arguments. (All due respect to Aristotle & Alexander's nights out on the veranda but Aristotle should have kept it in his pants.)

I wouldn't turn anyone over to anyone so they could do something dangerous & stupid like have intercourse w/ a child. But I respect Dannno enough to know that if he hung out with my kid daughter, regardless of what the relationship ended up as they wouldn't do any "fucking".

The "logic" behind protecting an adolescent girl from an older man's romantic notions is based on premises. If an alien visited us from a planet where sex was considered an act of kindness & accepted everywhere, you couldn't just say "we're jailing that horny man to protect our daughters psychologically." She wouldn't understand because that isn't where the logic begins. There wouldn't be an automatic assumption of "danger" unless there are deeper assumptions about sexuality.

For instance, the word "predator" has connotations of a larger animal killing & eating a smaller one. You can sound very logical saying you must protect young people from predators, but not as logical saying you must protect them from love.

I would rather my daughter saw other individuals as people and not ____ year olds. As Dannno pointed out, there are plenty of teenage boys with very, very hideous attitudes about girls & sex. We give them a pass for it even when they cause irreparable psychological damage to young women. Because we see them as ____ year olds and not people. Or, we say they're not "mature" enough to understand why you shouldn't secretly hate your girlfriend & joke to your buddies about how you took advantage of her. Personally, I think that's a load of crap. A 7 year old should be able to understand why it's wrong to be a sadistic liar. It's not complicated.

The best argument I've ever heard for the proverbial Freudian-horny dad beating up his daughter's older suitors is that since we live in an irrational sex-negative culture, most guys are into her for selfish/shallow reasons, so it's best to always assume the worst. That makes a lot of sense, but it fails to explain why we shouldn't protect our daughters from younger men just as vigorously, and it fails to explain why we don't counsel all women to stay away from men their whole lives.

If you want to trust your daughter alone with older men, you go right ahead--and they can make sweet, sweet love, not fuck. My bad. Personally, there isn't a single guy on the internet that I'd trust, but we have different standards.

We aren't talking about aliens with a completely different norm where sex is never violent and never harmful, are we? Rape happens. Abuse happens. Abuse of power happens.

But yeah, I can see that if we lived on this planet with these nice aliens where there are no STD's, it's impossible to violate the NAP and all children are taught that sex is little more than a nice hug, you'd be right. But these "crazy" notions of "danger" that I have and that she will have are because of reality and self-preservation. And predators DO manipulate notions of love in order to get what they want--except on this alien planet, of course.

I never said I wouldn't protect MY (not our) daughter from a younger man just as vigorously, different scenario--you do remember that this 60 year old dude is a social worker, right?

Like I said--you want to sacrifice your child to such an experiment, feel free. Don't ever ask someone else to neglect their child and put them at risk for your philosophical musings.

[pcosmar]

In another interesting story.

http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2009/11/11-year-old-girl-has-baby-on-her.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GGAmzDRA_BY/SwZALOMqDJI/AAAAAAAAISk/i_TitOqrFjM/s400/kordeza%2Bzhelyazkova.jpg



Sliven, Bulgaria (The Weekly Vice) - Kordeza Zhelyazkova, an 11-year-old Bulgarian schoolgirl gave birth to a beautiful baby girl – on her wedding day!

Zhelyazkova conceived her child, Violetta, just two weeks before her 11th birthday. The father, 19-year-old Jeliazko Dimitrov, has stayed by her side the whole time

Zhelyazkova met Dimitrov in the playground of her gypsy school when he rescued her from bullies. Zhelyazkova was pregnant within a week.

Zhelyazkova admits that she has never had a boyfriend or even knew what a condom was. Her school did not offer sex education classes. She didn’t even know she was pregnant until her grandmother noticed that she was gaining weight.

Zhelyazkova and Dimitrov had a traditional Roma wedding, during which Zhelyazkova went into labor. She still had on her wedding dress and tiara when she arrived at hospital.

Dimitrov claims that he did not know Zhelyazkova’s age when he first met her. Zhelyazkova admits she lied about her age because she was afraid Dimitrov wouldn’t "fancy" her.

Dimitrov is facing up to six years in jail for having sex with a minor.

or how about this?
http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/08/31/11-year-old-accidentally-allowed-to-vote-in-japan-her-vote-will-remain-valid/
http://www.japanator.com/amidst-the-confusion-an-11-year-old-girl-voted-in-the-japanese-election-11195.phtml


Sometimes mishaps happen with elections. Like letting old people vote down in Florida or letting the dead vote in Chicago. But what about letting 11-year-olds? Well, I can't get as mad. At least the girl is showing an interest in politics.

Well, as the story goes, the girl was handed a ballot and allowed to vote in the election when she accompanied her Dad to the polling station. They didn't realize she was underage until she had already cast the ballot -- making it impossible to discern hers from all the other votes cast, so they had no choice but to accept the ballot.

[pcosmar]

Double post glitch again

[amy31416]

In another interesting story.

http://www.theweeklyvice.com/2009/11/11-year-old-girl-has-baby-on-her.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GGAmzDRA_BY/SwZALOMqDJI/AAAAAAAAISk/i_TitOqrFjM/s400/kordeza%2Bzhelyazkova.jpg




or how about this?
http://www.japanprobe.com/2009/08/31/11-year-old-accidentally-allowed-to-vote-in-japan-her-vote-will-remain-valid/
http://www.japanator.com/amidst-the-confusion-an-11-year-old-girl-voted-in-the-japanese-election-11195.phtml

I'm convinced. Can't wait until my girl turns 10 so I can find her a husband and start spittin' out me grandchildren by age 11. I'll likely have to crush all her dreams first and ditch her father so she's got some solid daddy issues though--small price! And to think that we've actually been planning to take a year-long overseas tour with her at that age....pffft. We're gonna spend that money on beer.

[green73]

Police said they had gathered evidence from “hundreds” of wiretaps of telephone conversations.

Wtf? Did they let it go on for that long or did they get these "wiretaps" after the fact (like from the NSA)?

[green73]

She is 11 freaking years old. Normal girls her age still play with dolls occasionally. I have no idea what happened to make her so hypersexualized at such a young age, but he is a grown up. He's supposed to get her help, not laid.


I totally agree, and I think pcosmar would as well. That is certainly the action I would take in that situation.

That's good to know.

[pcosmar]

I'm convinced. Can't wait until my girl turns 10 so I can find her a husband and start spittin' out me grandchildren by age 11.
I would not recommend such.
I would however,, recommend an Honest education,, as is my habit.

[pcosmar]

Wtf? Did they let it go on for that long or did they get these "wiretaps" after the fact (like from the NSA)?

That part was curious to me too,,
Almost like it was set up.

[Christian Liberty]

Having sex with a sexually active adolescent is NOT Pedophilia.
It is unwise. It is often illegal,

But it is not Pedophilia.

I don't know the technical definitions, but a 60 year old with an 11 year old is still pedophilia in my book. I have an 11 year old brother, and he is undeniably still a child.

If the girl was 16 or 17, I'd see your "technically illegal" point even if the man was 60, but 11?

Yeah, no.

[Keith and stuff]

I don't know the technical definitions, but a 60 year old with an 11 year old is still pedophilia in my book. I have an 11 year old brother, and he is undeniably still a child.

If the girl was 16 or 17, I'd see your "technically illegal" point even if the man was 60, but 11?

Yeah, no.
I am sorry, I thought you had some knowledge on this subject. But making up random nonsense to try to make other people look worse isn't the best thing to do. Some people here are actually trying to talk about issues, not just say random nonsense.

[Christian Liberty]

I am sorry, I thought you had some knowledge on this subject. But making up random nonsense to try to make other people like worse isn't the best thing to do. Some people here are actually trying to talk about issues, not just say random nonsense.

Let me put it this way, any 60 year old who voluntarily has sex with an 11 year old deserves to die.

Call it whatever you want.

[enhanced_deficit]

This maybe slightly off topic, could this Judge have very religious/biblical frame of mind?

Profile of Mary the Mother of Jesus:

Mary was a young girl, probably only about 12 or 13 years old when the angel Gabriel came to her. She had recently become engaged to a carpenter named Joseph.

http://christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentpeople/p/marymotherjesus.htm

How old were Joseph and Mary when Jesus was born?
www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/josephmaryages
... Joseph was 95 years old, and Mary 14, when Jesus was born. ... I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of he..



Ofcourse in modern times there are "experts" skeptics too, this is in Washington Times today:


Jesus's mother, Mary, probably wasn't a virgin, experts say

http://media.washtimes.com/media/community/viewpoint/entry/2013/12/19/Virgin_Mary2_s640x427.jpg?73b8e21685896c3f2859310a aa5adb253919b641 Photo: The Virgin Mary/ Flickr
Thursday, December 19, 2013

: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-realist/2013/dec/19/jesuss-mother-mary-probably-wasnt-virgin-experts-s (http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/conscience-realist/2013/dec/19/jesuss-mother-mary-probably-wasnt-virgin-experts-s/#ixzz2ny8ttxYP)

[dannno]

Let me put it this way, any 60 year old who voluntarily has sex with an 11 year old deserves to die.

Call it whatever you want.

Well God is older than that and apparently he impregnated a 12 or 13 year old so is that where one should draw the line :confused:

[Christian Liberty]

Well God is older than that and apparently he impregnated a 12 or 13 year old so is that where one should draw the line :confused:

Neg repped for ignorant blasphemy.

[dannno]

Neg repped for ignorant blasphemy.

Fortunately I got a +lol to balance it out.

[Christian Liberty]

Fortunately I got a +lol to balance it out.

Probably from another God-hater. Your comment was disgusting and you need to repent.

[green73]

Probably from another God-hater. Your comment was disgusting and you need to repent.

Christ, you sound like a parody.

[heavenlyboy34]

Christ, you sound like a parody.
He's a pro troll and douchebag for sure...he may well be a parody as well.

[Christian Liberty]

He's a pro troll and douchebag for sure...he may well be a parody as well.

I'm surprised you of all people think that. Oh well.

[heavenlyboy34]

I'm surprised you of all people think that. Oh well.
Well, you behave like it. Mostly in recent weeks, though. A while ago you behaved rationally. Lately you've come unhinged and tend toward incoherence, aggressiveness, and irrationality. :(

[Ender]

I'm surprised you of all people think that. Oh well.

I don't think you're a troll- but you could lighten up. I'm a minister and I found danno's remark funny.

I think God has a sense of humor. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't think you're a troll- but you could lighten up. I'm a minister and I found danno's remark funny.

I think God has a sense of humor. ;)
He has lately been derailing many a-thread for no particular reason...rather characteristic of a troll in my several years of forum experience...

[Christian Liberty]

Well, you behave like it. Mostly in recent weeks, though. A while ago you behaved rationally. Lately you've come unhinged and tend toward incoherence, aggressiveness, and irrationality. :(

You obviously haven't engaged me on a political topic in way too long;)

You're just mad because I went completely nuts against the Orthodox Church:p


I don't think you're a troll- but you could lighten up. I'm a minister and I found danno's remark funny.

I think God has a sense of humor. ;)

I've heard that particular thing way too many times, and besides, its a lie about God.


He has lately been derailing many a-thread for no particular reason...rather characteristic of a troll in my several years of forum experience...

When have I done that?

Trust me, I'm dead serious about everything I post.

[Slutter McGee]

Alright so a story. I am 18 and at a party. I start flirting with this hottie, and we start making out and I am pretty sure I am getting laid. She goes to the bathroom at some point, and this guy tells me that she is 12. I freak the fuck out and leave as quickly as possible. She was gorgeous, and easily passed for 17.

Hooking up with a girl that is too young I can understand. Hooking up with someone too young, when you know their age, well that is just fucking sick. 11. fucking 11. And you are 60 and in a position of trust. This is sick, the man is sick, and it doesn't matter what the girl might or might not have done....why? because she is fucking 11.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[pcosmar]

Probably from another God-hater. Your comment was disgusting and you need to repent.

His statement was the truth.

And only religious confusion mixed with sexual confusion would conclude otherwise.

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. That would have made her (Mary) ,,a very young age.. and conception (made pregnant) was made by God.

It was a true statement.

and I did not +rep his comment,,but I would not -rep it either.

[catfeathers]

The Bulgarian girl reminds me of my friend's mother but she was actually younger. She had my friend when she was 10, when her mother found out she was pregnant she took her to the 20 something father and told him he could have her. I'm not sure how old she was when they got married but they had another child and were divorced by the time I met the friend. My friend had a baby at 19 and her mother was upset because she was a grandmother before she was 30.

My friend was born in California, in the 1970's.

[pcosmar]

I don't think you're a troll- but you could lighten up. I'm a minister and I found danno's remark funny.

I think God has a sense of humor. ;)

And not only that,,


This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created.

He created them male and female. God made us,, He knows about sex.

Some people would really get upset that incest was the NORM back then.

Fix your own head folks,,,

[Slutter McGee]

So I am not a fan of FreedomFanatic, but yep. Exactly right in this whole thread. Any 60 year old man who knowingly has sex with an 11 year old girl....well death doesn't bother me.

Slutter McGee

[Keith and stuff]

So I am not a fan of FreedomFanatic, but yep. Exactly right in this whole thread. Any 60 year old man who knowingly has sex with an 11 year old girl....well death doesn't bother me.

Slutter McGee
So you think just going around and murdering judges is cool?

[Slutter McGee]

So you think just going around and murdering judges is cool?

No, I wouldn't agree with it, but If it was the father of that 11 old daughter, I sure as hell wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Slutter McGee

[NIU Students for Liberty]

Well God is older than that and apparently he impregnated a 12 or 13 year old so is that where one should draw the line :confused:

I agree with FF on a lot of stuff but I lol'd.

http://memeguy.com/photos/images/tim-and-eric-mind-explosion-gif--41769.gif

[brandon]

Italy’s age of consent is 14 and rises to 16 when the older party is judged to be in a position of authority over the child.


That's pretty damn generous... if those dudes can't work within those confines they got some serious issues.

[Keith and stuff]

No, I wouldn't agree with it, but If it was the father of that 11 old daughter, I sure as hell wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Slutter McGee

He said he would murder the innocent judge because he increased the process to justice by 1 step. That is my main fault with that FF is saying. You said you agreed with what he was saying. I'm glad you clarified. That way if random judges start to die for no reason, only 1 poster on RPFs will be a major suspect.

[Danke]

Wait, Amy is taking the position of leaving the under-aged alone?

Pinch me.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Thus, writing laws which hinder and endanger freedom are unnecessary and stupid. "Age of consent," included.

Once again we see why the more stringent Libertarians are politically dead: they're so rigid, so married to their ideology that they refuse to let any common sense seep through into their brains.

No "age of consent"? Really? Some creepy pervert can get a seven-year-old to "agree" to sex, and that's a-okay legally? F that.

[Keith and stuff]

Once again we see why the more stringent Libertarians are politically dead: they're so rigid, so married to their ideology that they refuse to let any common sense seep through into their brains.
Why are you talking about the Libertarian Party? Please name the posters in this thread that are members of the Libertarian Party?

[heavenlyboy34]

Once again we see why the more stringent Libertarians are politically dead: they're so rigid, so married to their ideology that they refuse to let any common sense seep through into their brains.

No "age of consent"? Really? Some creepy pervert can get a seven-year-old to "agree" to sex, and that's a-okay legally? F that.
What? The parents would still have the right to decide what is right/wrong for the kid without "age of consent" laws. I don't agree with having a relationship with a minor personally (Someone young enough to be my kid is a major turnoff), but some teenagers actually have the ability to handle that. Believe it or not, there was a time in US history when teenagers were expected to behave like adults, and there are still a few who do it. (See John Taylor Gatto's Books. It's really remarkable how kids now are kept in perpetual childhood for 18-20 years, while in the 18th-19th centuries, "kids" handled the responsibilities young adults now often struggle with).

[tangent4ronpaul]

That said, my problem isn't that an adult & a child have a romantic relationship in the case in question, my issue is that if they really did have SEX, i.e. sexual intercourse, that is very dangerous and a physical risk to an 11 year old. Very very bad. If the old guy really allowed this girl to seduce him in THAT way he should be subject to the law. Not for any American "sick pedos die" non-argument, but because he threatened the little girl's physical well being with a stupid unnecessary act.

My problem with this whole thread and the OP is that all these things are ambiguous and people are discussing assumptions. How about a little:

Research & Analysis 101

My first question was what is the bias of the source?

I think if you click the link, and take a look, not at the article, but around it - what kind of paper is this, what are their biases, would they spin this , why and how? This paper does have a bias and you might think differently of the article after visiting the site.

Secondly, not enough and not clear information. Well, find other sources, preferably as close to what is being reported as possible.

There is a list of Italian newspapers here:

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/italy.htm

Unfortunately, I didn't find one for the cities named and only one was in English. You can get around the language issue by going to http://translate.google.com/ and pasting in the URL of the page you want. If you are using google chrome, it will detect the language most times and ask if you want it translated. It's built in.

You can read the news of any country by going to: http://www.onlinenewspapers.com

But this is a little limiting, we are, after all, talking about yesterdays news and most newspapers don't have searchable archives...

You may not know this, but Google has a full lineup of services in most countries. The servers and what they hoover or connect are different for each country or area. the difference is a country code. Here is a list of country codes (Italy is "it") :

http://www.iso.org/iso/country_names_and_code_elements

so I typed in: https://news.google.it <== note "news", Google's news service and "it", we are searching Italian News. It's in Italian, so I translate it. This doesn't appear to be a hot story right now, so searching in a foreign language might be a little dicy, but not impossible. Even spellings, British vs American English, etc. In this case, I examined the news article for keywords I could put in, and the most obvious was the guys name, so I typed that in, got results and found at least 24 articles on the main stem and other related splinter articles.

Did the world just get a little smaller?

So how about filling in the blanks. Go forth and practive your new found Google-foo!

Heres a translation of the first article:

Peter Lamberti, 60, the daughter of 11. For the Supreme Court is love
http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/cronaca-italia/pietro-lamberti-60-anni-con-bimba-11-per-cassazione-amore-1738993/

http://www.blitzquotidiano.it/wp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/pietro_lamberti.jpg

CATANZARO - If a 60 year old man goes to bed with a girl of 11 is a crime but if there are extenuating circumstances between the two lovers is "love." A ruling of the Supreme Court reopens the case of Peter Lamberti , assigned to the social services of the municipality of Catanzaro, and a child entrusted to him. The Court has canceled and deferred the sentence to five years in prison twice inflicted on Peter Lamberti and ordered a new trial before the Court of Appeal of Catanzaro.
The news was reported by the newspaper of Calabria and taken over by the Journal . The brother of the owner of the Journal is Silvio Berlusconi, in turn sentenced to 7 years in prison for various crimes including that of having sex with a minor. The message of the Journal is implied, but the difference is obvious: the 11 year old girl was not a prostitute, Ruby and yes its a law sought by Berlusconi at the time of his flirtation with the League punishes those who have relations with a minor surcharge . The same Berlusconi said it was fair to punish sinners .
Peter Lamberti was meeting with the girl in her summer cottage in Roccelletta di Borgia , Catanzaro on the Ionian coast. The Daily Calabria contains some phone calls intercepted by the investigators: "But you love me?" asked the little girl. Then the fear of being caught: Lamberti has repeatedly invited the girl to keep the secret and not to call him on the weekends he spent with the family. Then the suspicion of having his mother's eyes fixed on him.
The two were caught in flagrante delicto, both naked under the sheets in the villa to the sea. The judge sentenced Lamberti in the first degree and five years for sexual assault. The family, founded the plaintiff obtained a compensation of 40 000 euro. In the second degree conviction is confirmed. But it is the highest level of justice twist: the case is remanded on appeal for "tenuous nature of the fact." According to the judges of the Supreme Court the two were in love.
" Eleven years is aware of the meaning of the word love? "questions The Journal notes that a precedent in Vicenza in 2008, the leniency of the courts in a situation where, in the relationship between an adult and a minor, you could see a feeling of love:
a conviction, "mild" (a year and 4 months) to a butcher of 34 years who had had sex with a thirteen year old. All this because she was "knowledge and consent" and he "fell in love". The defendant had not been denied the crime of rape, but to sexual acts with a minor.

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

I had a bunch of questions from the original article:

Did they actually have sex? - Above article seems to say they did, but OP article said no.
Was he a foster parent?
Did they live together?
Was she an orphan?
What was their relationship?
Why were the police(?) wiretapping?
I was kinda wondering if he was a foster parent and poor so shared a bed non-sexually and the system had problems with that.

The (rather poor) translation of this next article answers a lot of that:

The Supreme Court: new trial by appeals to Peter Lamberti
http://www.uscatanzaro.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=31064

The man (sixty years old) had been convicted of sexual assault against a child of eleven years

They were sent back to the Court of Appeals of Catanzaro acts of the conviction of Peter Lamberti (pictured) employed by the Social Services of the City of Catanzaro.
The facts date back to three years ago, a woman entrusts her daughter to Peter Lamberti , an employee of the social services of the municipality, he is 60 years old, her eleven o'clock. The relationship soon turns into another and mother concerned about the relationship that was getting too morbid warns the police that the square of the bugs in the summer villa of Lamberti, in Roccelletta of Borgia. Initiated the investigation, supported by environmental intrerecettazioni, click the blitz and police officers are the man and the girl naked under the sheets. At the time, the young man was no longer going to school, and, according to police, he was in a "state of absolute subjection psychological." Lamberti ends in handcuffs for him to open wide the doors of the prison, but it comes out shortly after due to health problems. At first instance, Lamberti is convicted of sexual assault to the penalty of five years, exceeding 4 years and 4 months requested by the prosecutor's office. The family constitutes a civil party, get 40 thousand euro for damages, but wants to move on, until the final sentence. In second grade the sentence is confirmed. The twist, however, comes to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court while confirming the sentence refers to the acts in speaking of Appeals' tenuous nature of the job, "and inviting them to consider the request of any extenuating circumstances. The reason? The two were in love. It 'a decision that is doing a lot to discuss in environments Catanzaro and beyond. The question that many are asking is: eleven one is aware of the meaning of the word love? The decision is likely so to lighten the punishment in the name of a supposed feeling.


SEX WITH 11-YEAR OLD, THE SUPREME COURT ANNULS CONVICTION AND ACQUITS 60 YEAR OLD
http://news.you-ng.it/2013/12/08/sesso-11enne-cassazione-annulla-condanna-assolve-60enne/

Catanzaro-The Supreme Court shall review the sentence for rape of minor to Peter Lamberti. The judges have decided to cancel with reference to the judgment of second degree condemning the 60 year old employee of the town of Catanzaro to five years in prison

The reason is the following: there is a mitigating nell'accondiscendenza to consume the victim's sexual relations with the defendant.

The man and the 11 year old girl, who had been given because of family hardship, they shared a genuine emotional bond of love that would justify the carnal union between the two. The amount of interceptions collection in the course of the investigation three years ago that led to the arrest of man the key to the judgment. .

As reported by The Daily of the Calabria , the child's mother had entrusted to his care:

And he took her in his arms. But when the police had raided the house by the sea, his arms held her close beneath the sheets of Latvia. Both naked. But even in love, now writing the judges of the Supreme Court.

"But you love me," he asked romantically minor. And he tried in vain to stop it, and then indulge in erotic comments. Until the fear of pregnancy would make him desist. And the fear was replaced courtship. [...] She was a ring when she was alone in the house and he called her by phone, with the exception of the weekend. "Do not call Saturday and Sunday because they are with the family," he warned her. And she obeyed.

The process continues and the appellate judges must take into proper consideration the judgment of the Supreme Court.


He 60 years old and she 11: love for the Supreme Court is
Cancelled sentence City employee Catanzaro
http://www.ilquotidianocalabria.it/news/cronache/720148/Lui-60-anni-e-lei-11.html

The decision of the Supreme Court will certainly discuss. The two were caught in flagrante delicto in a house of Catanzaro and the man was sentenced to five years in trial for sexual assault on a minor. Now the decision to review all recognizing the excuse of romantic relationship

CATANZARO - he 60 and she 11 years old. He employed at the Social Services of the City of Catanzaro, she disadvantaged child of the family. His mother had entrusted to his care. And he took her in his arms. But when the police had raided the house by the sea, his arms held her close beneath the sheets of Latvia. Both naked. But even in love, now writing the judges of the Supreme Court, which, between the lines of a judgment that will be discuss, identify mitigating nell'accondiscendenza to consume the victim's sexual relations with the defendant.
So, set aside by the court sentence to five years in prison twice inflicted on Peter Lamberti, shall return the case to the Court of Appeal of Catanzaro and ordering a new trial. Which will start again from there. From the villa transformed into the alcove of a forbidden love. Made of daily phone calls and meetings at all hours.
"But you love me," he asked romantically minor. And he tried in vain to stop it, and then indulge in erotic comments. Until the fear of pregnancy would make him desist. And the fear was replaced courtship. As is apparent from some of the hundreds of wiretaps collected by police officers.
She gave him a ring when she was alone in the house and he drew from the phone, except for the weekend. "Do not call Saturday and Sunday because they are with the family," he warned her. And she obeyed. So how would that sunny morning of June 22, three years ago, at the time of wearing the skirt to be able to "meet" in the car, because back in the house Roccelletta would be too risky, he would have noted "his man" , that for some time you could feel the eyes of the mother of eleven, so as to continually recommend it to not open your mouth and not to tell anyone of the house of Roccelletta, "because this is a secret that we have to bring up to grave. " But the secret was finally uncovered. And Lamberto had fallen straight into the net of the police who, after having intercepted the meeting, had followed him and caught in the act.

-t

[The Bavarian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA

[klamath]

What? The parents would still have the right to decide what is right/wrong for the kid without "age of consent" laws. I don't agree with having a relationship with a minor personally (Someone young enough to be my kid is a major turnoff), but some teenagers actually have the ability to handle that. Believe it or not, there was a time in US history when teenagers were expected to behave like adults, and there are still a few who do it. (See John Taylor Gatto's Books. It's really remarkable how kids now are kept in perpetual childhood for 18-20 years, while in the 18th-19th centuries, "kids" handled the responsibilities young adults now often struggle with).You highlight what he wrote about a 7 year old and then promptly blather on about teenagers in the past.:rolleyes:

[FindLiberty]

WAIT A MINUTE... The 60 year old was/is a government employee?


The facts date back to three years ago, a woman entrusts her daughter to Peter Lamberti , an employee of the social services of the municipality, he is 60 years old, her eleven o'clock.

Oh, that changes everything... never mind. (It's still sickening though!)

Not guilty by means of, "We're The government, And You're Not".

[jclay2]

I think we all agree that this subject is very very gray. There is often no right answer and circumstances play a huge roll in determining whether it was right or wrong. But come on, this guy was a social service worker entrusted with the care of this 11 year old girl. Anyone even suggesting that this is a case where it is questionable to pass judgement is out of their minds and/or doesn't have children. Personally, I would lose my freaking mind if this happened to my daughter (currently 4 months). If I saw him go free, it would take incredible restraint not to resort to this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZNfZ1emQxo

[angelatc]

Once again we see why the more stringent Libertarians are politically dead: they're so rigid, so married to their ideology that they refuse to let any common sense seep through into their brains.

No "age of consent"? Really? Some creepy pervert can get a seven-year-old to "agree" to sex, and that's a-okay legally? F that.

Libertarianism fail. It's ok to believe that it's a victimless crime (I don't believe that, but ..) but trying to convince other people to accept that it's somehow normal and should be acceptable indicates they truly aren't capable of conforming to society's norms without being forced.

[heavenlyboy34]

Libertarianism fail. It's ok to believe that it's a victimless crime (I don't believe that, but ..) but trying to convince other people to accept that it's somehow normal and should be acceptable indicates they truly aren't capable of conforming to society's norms without being forced.
No. See #93 above^^

[heavenlyboy34]

You highlight what he wrote about a 7 year old and then promptly blather on about teenagers in the past.:rolleyes:
7 year olds also had heavy responsibility, as Gatto pointed out. Sorry I left that out. I assumed almost everyone, including you, were familiar with Gatto's research. May the internets Gods forgive my ommission and your eyerolls cease trying to function as a half-assed counter-argument.

[Acronies]

Ron Paul did not become popular by promising to take away peoples medicare and social security. He became popular with his end the fed message and his anti-war positions.

[Ender]

He has lately been derailing many a-thread for no particular reason...rather characteristic of a troll in my several years of forum experience...

God's a troll? :eek:

[heavenlyboy34]

God's a troll? :eek:
zuh? :confused: I don't get it...did I skip a post or two or three?

[idiom]

God's a troll? :eek:

The First and the Best.