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View Full Version : Pickens Co. sheriff refuses to fly flag at half-staff for Mandela




TaftFan
12-08-2013, 09:05 PM
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/24158363/pickens-sheriff-refuses-fly-flag-at-half-staff-for-mandela

Dr.3D
12-08-2013, 09:06 PM
Well, at last somebody with some cajónes.

eduardo89
12-08-2013, 09:08 PM
Why should the US fly flags at half-mast for a foreign communist?

NorthCarolinaLiberty
12-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Shouldn't he be out tazing somebody?

oyarde
12-08-2013, 09:27 PM
I too refuse to fly my flag half mast for all communist revolutionaries of all colors , countries of origin or proffessed religion.

James Madison
12-08-2013, 09:30 PM
Why should the US fly flags at half-mast for a foreign communist?

Liberals worship Che so why not?

oyarde
12-08-2013, 09:35 PM
Liberals worship Che so why not?

Yes , they like commie killers. People of low character ..... " birds of a feather flock together " .

Ender
12-08-2013, 09:41 PM
Why should the US fly flags at half-mast for a foreign communist?

Mandela wasn't a communist. From his own words at his trial:


It is true that there has often been close co-operation between the ANC and the Communist Party. But co-operation is merely proof of a common goal – in this case the removal of white supremacy – and is not proof of a complete community of interests.

My Lord, the history of the world is full of similar examples. Perhaps the most striking illustration is to be found in the co-operation between Great Britain, the United States of America, and the Soviet Union in the fight against Hitler. Nobody but Hitler would have dared to suggest that such co-operation turned Churchill or Roosevelt into communists or communist tools, or that Britain and America were working to bring about a communist world.

My Lord, I give these illustrations because they are relevant to the allegation that our sabotage was a communist plot or the work of so-called agitators. Because, My Lord, another instance of such co-operation is to be found precisely in Umkhonto. Shortly after Umkhonto was constituted, I was informed by some of its members that the Communist Party would support Umkhonto, and this then occurred. At a later stage the support was made openly.

I believe that communists have always played an active role in the fight by colonial countries for their freedom, because the short-term objects of communism would always correspond with the long-term objects of freedom movements. Thus communists, My Lord, have played an important role in the freedom struggles fought in countries such as Malaya, Algeria, and Indonesia, yet none of these states today are communist countries. Similarly in the underground resistance movements which sprung up in Europe during the last World War, communists played an important role. Even General Chiang Kai-Shek, today one of the bitterest enemies of communism, fought together with the communists against the ruling class in the struggle which led to his assumption of power in China in the 1930s.

This pattern of co-operation between communists and non-communists has been repeated in the National Liberation Movement of South Africa. Prior to the banning of the Communist Party, joint campaigns involving the Communist Party and the Congress movements were accepted practice. African communists could, and did, become members of the ANC, and some served on the National, Provincial, and local committees. Amongst those who served on the National Executive are Albert Nzula, a former Secretary of the Communist Party, another former Secretary, Edwin Mofutsanyana and J. B. Marks, a former member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party.

I joined the ANC in 1944, and in 1952 I became Transvaal President and Deputy National President. In my younger days I held the view that the policy of admitting communists to the ANC, and the close co-operation which existed at times on specific issues between the ANC and the Communist Party, would lead to a watering down of the concept of African Nationalism. At that stage I was a member of the African National Congress Youth League, and was one of a group which moved for the expulsion of communists from the ANC. This proposal was heavily defeated, and amongst those who voted against the proposal were some of the most conservative sections of African political opinion. They defended the policy on the ground that from its inception the ANC was formed and built up, not as a political party with one school of political thought, but as a Parliament of the African people accommodating people of various political views –convictions, all united by the common goal of national liberation. I was eventually won over to this point of view and I have upheld it ever since.

It is perhaps difficult for white South Africans, with an ingrained prejudice against communism, to understand why experienced African politicians so readily accept communists as their friends. But to us the reason is obvious. Theoretical differences, amongst those fighting against oppression, is a luxury which cannot be afforded. What is more, for many decades communists were the only political group in South Africa who were prepared to treat Africans as human beings and as their equals; who were prepared to eat with us; talk with us, live with us, and work with us. They were the only political group which was prepared to work with the Africans for the attainment of political rights and a stake in society. Because of this, there are many Africans who today tend to equate freedom with communism. They are supported in this belief by a legislature which brands all exponents of democratic government and African freedom as communists and bannned many of them, who are not communists, under the Suppression of Communism Act. Although My Lord I am not a communist and I have never been a member of the Communist Party, I myself have been banned, have been named under that pernicious Act because of the role I played in the Defiance Campaign. I have also been banned and convicted under that Act.

It is not only in internal politics that we count communists as amongst those who support our cause. In the international field, communist countries have always come to our aid. In the United Nations and other Councils of the world the communist bloc has supported the Afro-Asian struggle against colonialism and often seems to be more sympathetic to our plight than some of the Western powers. Although there is a universal condemnation of apartheid, the communist bloc speaks out against it with a louder voice than most of the western world. In these circumstances, it would take a brash young politician, such as I was in 1949, to proclaim that the Communists are our enemies.

My Lord, I wish now to turn to my own position. I have denied that I am a communist, and I think in the circumstances I am obliged to state exactly what my political beliefs are in order to explain what my position in Umkhonto was, and what my attitude towards the use of force is.

I have always regarded myself, in the first place, as an African patriot. After all, I was born in Umtata, forty-six years ago. My guardian was my cousin, who was the acting paramount chief of Thembuland, and I am related both to Sabata Dalindyebo, the present paramount chief, and to Kaiser Matanzima, the Chief Minister for the Transkei.

Today I am attracted by the idea of a classless society, an attraction which springs in part from Marxist reading and, in part, from my admiration of the structure and organisation of early African societies in this country. The land, then the main means of production, belonged to the tribe. There was no rich or poor and there was no exploitation.

It is true, as I have already stated that I have been influenced by Marxist thought. But this is also true of many of the leaders of the new independent states. Such widely different persons as Gandhi, Nehru, Nkrumah, and Nasser all acknowledge this fact. We all accept the need for some form of socialism to enable our people to catch up with the advanced countries of the world and to overcome their legacy of extreme poverty. But this does not mean we are Marxists.

Indeed, My Lord, for my own part, I believe it is open to debate whether the Communist Party has any specific role to play at this particular stage of our political struggle. The basic task at the present moment is the removal of race discrimination and the attainment of democratic rights on the basis of the Freedom Charter, and a struggle which can best be led by a strong ANC. In so far, My Lord, as that Party furthers this task, I welcome its assistance. I realise that it is one of the main means by which people of all races can be drawn into our struggle.

But from my reading of Marxist literature and from conversations with Marxists, I have gained the impression that communists regard the parliamentary system of the work - of the West as undemocratic and reactionary. But, on the contrary, I am an admirer of such a system.

The Magna Carta, the Petition of Rights, the Bill of Rights are documents which are held in veneration by democrats throughout the world.

I have great respect for British political institutions, and for the country's system of justice. I regard the British Parliament as the most democratic institution in the world, and the independence and impartiality of its judiciary never fail to arouse my admiration.

The American Congress, that country's doctrine of separation of powers, as well as the independence of its judiciary, arouse in me similar sentiments.

I have been influenced in my thinking by both West and East. All this has led me to feel that in my search for a political formula, I should be absolutely impartial and objective. I should tie myself to no particular system of society other than that of socialism. I must leave myself free to borrow the best from West and from the East.

eduardo89
12-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Mandela wasn't a communist. From his own words at his trial:

First rule of dealing with communists: Never believe a word they say.

oyarde
12-08-2013, 09:49 PM
First rule of dealing with communists: Never believe a word they say.

Sounds reasonable to me :) , based on a lifetime .

Ender
12-08-2013, 09:50 PM
First rule of dealing with communists: Never believe a word they say.

Dude- the proof would be when he was the leader of SA. He always went by democratic vote- whether he agreed or not.

Get away from the neocon hatred of a guy that beat them at their own game and read up. The more I am researching- the better he looks. Like I said:

William Wallace.

Cutlerzzz
12-08-2013, 09:54 PM
Dude- the proof would be when he was the leader of SA. He always went by democratic vote- whether he agreed or not.

Get away from the neocon hatred of a guy that beat them at their own game and read up. The more I am researching- the better he looks. Like I said:

William Wallace.

Neocons like Mandela.

FrankRep
12-08-2013, 09:55 PM
Mandela wasn't a communist. From his own words at his trial:

Mandela had to hide his Communist ties because of "political reasons."


http://www.thenewamerican.com/media/k2/items/cache/624d45472658f2f7b4cccc491f3ed028_M.jpg (http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/17128-south-african-communist-party-admits-mandela-s-leadership-role)



Shortly after Nelson Mandela died, the South African Communist Party and the African National Congress both released statements acknowledging that “Comrade” Mandela was indeed a Communist Party leader who served on the Soviet-backed organization’s Central Committee.


South African Communist Party Admits Mandela's Leadership Role (http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/17128-south-african-communist-party-admits-mandela-s-leadership-role)


The New American (http://www.thenewamerican.com/)
08 December 2013


Shortly after the death of South African revolutionary Nelson Mandela, the South African Communist Party and the African National Congress both released official statements acknowledging what was already well-known among experts: “Comrade” Mandela was indeed a Communist Party leader who served on the Soviet-backed organization’s Central Committee. According to the Communist Party statement (http://www.workers.org/articles/2013/12/06/statement-south-african-communist-party-nelson-mandela/) on Mandela’s passing, not only was the confessed terror leader a senior official on the South African Communist Party’s highest decision-making body, he was actually close to the outfit until his death.

Until last week, apologists for Mandela still claimed implausibly that his “alleged” alliance with international communism was mostly a marriage of convenience. Some of his more ardent or ignorant fans, relying on decades of lying denials from Mandela and others in the know about his membership in the party, even tried to claim that charges of communism were fabrications by Apartheid supporters, “conspiracy theorists,” and “extremists.” For now, the press outside of South Africa does not seem to have even noticed the earth-shattering news.

The controversial revolutionary figure, who admittedly oversaw a ruthless but largely forgotten campaign of terror against civilians that left women and children of all races dead, simply could not have really been a real, card-carrying communist — or so his adoring fans wanted to believe, at least. The latest evidence, however, confirms otherwise, once again. Now, the truth is officially out, but whether it will be reported by the establishment press remains to be seen.
...

In the statement (http://www.workers.org/articles/2013/12/06/statement-south-african-communist-party-nelson-mandela/) released on December 6 and published by assorted Marxist outfits, the South African Communist Party, or SACP, helped shed light on all of it. “At his arrest in August 1962, Nelson Mandela was not only a member of the then underground South African Communist Party, but was also a member of our Party’s Central Committee,” the SACP said in the statement, illustrating once again the enormity of the long and successful track-record of communist deception.

As to why it was denied for so long, SACP deputy general secretary Solly Mapaila was quoted in South African news reports (http://www.bdlive.co.za/national/2013/12/06/sacp-confirms-nelson-mandela-was-a-member) as saying it was for “political reasons” — apparently people would have been upset to realize their hero and supposed “liberator” was, actually, a card-carrying communist. “There was a huge offensive by the oppressive apartheid regime at the time against communists,” Mapaila said, adding that all of the terrorists tried at Mandela’s Rivonia Trial were Party members.
...


Full Story:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/17128-south-african-communist-party-admits-mandela-s-leadership-role


Related article:

2012 - New Evidence Shows Mandela Was Senior Communist Party Member (http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/africa/item/13920-new-evidence-shows-mandela-was-senior-communist-party-member)

Ender
12-08-2013, 10:00 PM
Neocons like Mandela.

The neocons pretend to like him since he beat them at their own game. The pseudo-conservatives (Rush et al) hate him in the open.

Cutlerzzz
12-08-2013, 10:05 PM
The neocons pretend to like him since he beat them at their own game. The pseudo-conservatives (Rush et al) hate him in the open.

Limbaugh likes Mandela.

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/06/rush_limbaugh_uses_nelson_mandelas_death_to_denoun ce_the_american_civil_rights_movement/

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/12/06/mandela_has_more_in_common_with_clarence_thomas_th an_barack_obama

You're full of shit. Neocons love Mandela just like you.

Ender
12-08-2013, 10:07 PM
Mandela had to hide his Communist ties because of "political reasons."



So say communist leaders. His actions do not substantiate the claim.

FrankRep
12-08-2013, 10:09 PM
The neocons pretend to like him since he beat them at their own game. The pseudo-conservatives (Rush et al) hate him in the open.

I don't think Newt Gingrich is pretending.

Newt Gingrich takes on hard-line conservatives over Nelson Mandela (http://nypost.com/2013/12/08/newt-gingrich-takes-on-hard-line-conservatives-over-nelson-mandela/)

NY Post


After Mandela died Thursday, Gingrich posted a statement that lauded him as “one of the greatest leaders of our lifetime.”

It provoked a barrage of online attacks that Gingrich ignored Mandela’s early violent activism and ties to communists.

“Such an amazing re-write of history since 1962 and 1990. Newt, I thought you of all people, a historian, would be true to who this guy really was,” Mike Winkelman wrote in a post on Gingrich’s Facebook page.
Modal Trigger

“This clenched-fist, murdering, guerilla warrior does not deserve respect from informed Americans,” posted Trish Baehr-Schaefer.

Gingrich said he was “very surprised” by the fierce backlash.

Ender
12-08-2013, 10:10 PM
Limbaugh likes Mandela.

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/06/rush_limbaugh_uses_nelson_mandelas_death_to_denoun ce_the_american_civil_rights_movement/

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/12/06/mandela_has_more_in_common_with_clarence_thomas_th an_barack_obama

You're full of shit. Neocons love Mandela just like you.

You know- your lack of civility has crossed the bar with me. Either learn to have an intelligent conversation or STFU.

And, unfortunately for you, it makes YOU look like the unintelligent asshole.

Ender
12-08-2013, 10:12 PM
I don't think Newt Gingrich is pretending.

Newt Gingrich takes on hard-line conservatives over Nelson Mandela (http://nypost.com/2013/12/08/newt-gingrich-takes-on-hard-line-conservatives-over-nelson-mandela/)

NY Post


After Mandela died Thursday, Gingrich posted a statement that lauded him as “one of the greatest leaders of our lifetime.”

It provoked a barrage of online attacks that Gingrich ignored Mandela’s early violent activism and ties to communists.

“Such an amazing re-write of history since 1962 and 1990. Newt, I thought you of all people, a historian, would be true to who this guy really was,” Mike Winkelman wrote in a post on Gingrich’s Facebook page.
Modal Trigger

“This clenched-fist, murdering, guerilla warrior does not deserve respect from informed Americans,” posted Trish Baehr-Schaefer.

Gingrich said he was “very surprised” by the fierce backlash.

You can think whatever you want- I already stated my thoughts on this.

aGameOfThrones
12-08-2013, 10:12 PM
That sheriff is racist, clearly.

Carson
12-08-2013, 10:12 PM
Sheriff's really have a way of standing up. It's almost like an old western at times.

Christian Liberty
12-08-2013, 10:13 PM
My Lord, the history of the world is full of similar examples. Perhaps the most striking illustration is to be found in the co-operation between Great Britain, the United States of America, and the Soviet Union in the fight against Hitler. Nobody but Hitler would have dared to suggest that such co-operation turned Churchill or Roosevelt into communists or communist tools, or that Britain and America were working to bring about a communist world.


I don't know if they were deliberately doing that. Roosevelt was definitely a communist though (He thought ALL income over 25K per year should be taken by the government). I couldn't tell you about Churchill.

Not to mention that WWII basically just allowed the Soviets to take east europe, not to mention the mass murder that occurred as a result of that war.

I wouldn't consider that a good example for anything.

erowe1
12-08-2013, 10:14 PM
Nobody but Hitler would have dared to suggest that such co-operation turned Churchill or Roosevelt into communists or communist tools, or that Britain and America were working to bring about a communist world.

Well, actually….

Cutlerzzz
12-08-2013, 10:15 PM
You know- your lack of civility has crossed the bar with me. Either learn to have an intelligent conversation or STFU.

And, unfortunately for you, it makes YOU look like the unintelligent asshole.

You resulted to name calling by equating anyone who doesn't support Mandela to Neocons, then subsequently told a bold faced lie about Limbaugh hating Mandela.

Should I be praising your honest, educated opinions in an "intelligent" discussion with you?

FrankRep
12-08-2013, 10:29 PM
So say communist leaders. His actions do not substantiate the claim.

Mandela can lie all he wants.


Mandela, communism, and South Africa (http://www.opendemocracy.net/stephen-ellis/mandela-communism-and-south-africa)

Open Democracy (http://www.opendemocracy.net/stephen-ellis/mandela-communism-and-south-africa)
25 July 2011


A recently discovered document shows that Nelson Mandela was a member of the South African Communist Party (SACP) in the early 1960s, when he became the first commander of the guerrilla organisation Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of the Nation). Mandela, the first president of post-apartheid South Africa (1994-99) after his release from twenty-seven years’ imprisonment, has always denied having been a communist.

The document is in a collection of private papers kept at the University of Cape Town. The vital paragraph is contained in the minutes of a SACP meeting held on 13 May 1982 at which a veteran former member of the party’s central committee, John Pule Motshabi, explained to those present the background to Mandela’s recruitment.

At least six other senior members of the SACP have confirmed Mandela’s party membership. “Mandela denies that he was ever a member of the party but I can tell you that he was a member of the party for a period”, another former central-committee member, Hilda Bernstein, told an interviewer in 2004. Yet another leading communist, the late Joe Matthews, has said that Mandela served on the SACP’s central committee at the same time as himself.

paulbot24
12-08-2013, 10:34 PM
"There is no penalty for failure to comply with an executive order given by the president."

Did anybody else think that is an interesting way to end the article......Hmmmmm:D

Ender
12-08-2013, 10:49 PM
You resulted to name calling by equating anyone who doesn't support Mandela to Neocons, then subsequently told a bold faced lie about Limbaugh hating Mandela.

Should I be praising your honest, educated opinions in an "intelligent" discussion with you?

Limbaugh Whitewashes His Past Attacks On Mandela To Claim He's Conservative

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/12/06/limbaugh-whitewashes-his-past-attacks-on-mandel/197187

“Right. So you go into Darfur and you go into South Africa, you get rid of the white government there. You put sanctions on them. You stand behind Nelson Mandela — who was bankrolled by communists for a time, had the support of certain communist leaders. You go to Ethiopia. You do the same thing.”

Top 10 Racist Limbaugh Quotes
http://newsone.com/16051/

Cutlerzzz
12-08-2013, 11:20 PM
Limbaugh Whitewashes His Past Attacks On Mandela To Claim He's Conservative

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/12/06/limbaugh-whitewashes-his-past-attacks-on-mandel/197187

“Right. So you go into Darfur and you go into South Africa, you get rid of the white government there. You put sanctions on them. You stand behind Nelson Mandela — who was bankrolled by communists for a time, had the support of certain communist leaders. You go to Ethiopia. You do the same thing.”

Top 10 Racist Limbaugh Quotes
http://newsone.com/16051/

Ten years ago. Rush today has done nothing but praise him. If you haven't noticed the American political climate has changed in the last decade.

Snew
12-09-2013, 09:54 AM
All this just for a stupid piece of cloth.

pcosmar
12-09-2013, 10:45 AM
You can think whatever you want- I already stated my thoughts on this.

I think a lot of folks are butthurt that the White Supremacists lost.

Though they will not admit that,, and so find other criticisms.

Here's a question.
Why didn't the "Free World" governments support the overthrow of a Criminally evil system? Why wasn't the US overthrowing Apartheid?
Why not? It certainly was not some principled non-interventionist policy.

JohnM
12-09-2013, 11:40 AM
The POTUS issued an executive order to have all American flags lowered in remembrance of Mandela????

Does the constitution allow him to do that?

Dr.3D
12-09-2013, 11:44 AM
The POTUS issued an executive order to have all American flags lowered in remembrance of Mandela????

Does the constitution allow him to do that?
He can order anything he wants. I doubt people will be arrested for not following this orders though. Best he just order a hamburger and be satisfied if he gets one.

roho76
12-09-2013, 11:56 AM
From the article:


There is no penalty for failure to comply with an executive order given by the president.

Huh? Really? I did not know that. Can someone get me a list of Obummers EO's. I feel the need to break some rules. I'll break each one of them with a picture of me breaking them.