Satanists seek spot next to Ten Commandments monument on steps of Oklahoma's Statehouse

[liberty2897]

Could be interesting...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/08/satanists-seek-spot-next-to-ten-commandments-monument-on-steps-oklahoma/


OKLAHOMA CITY – In their zeal to tout their faith in the public square, conservatives in Oklahoma may have unwittingly opened the door to a wide range of religious groups, including satanists who are seeking to put their own statue next to a Ten Commandments monument on the Statehouse steps.

The Republican-controlled Legislature in this state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt authorized the privately funded Ten Commandments monument in 2009, and it was placed on the Capitol grounds last year despite criticism from legal experts who questioned its constitutionality. The Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit seeking its removal.

But the New York-based Satanic Temple saw an opportunity. It notified the state's Capitol Preservation Commission that it wants to donate a monument and plans to submit one of several possible designs this month, said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the temple.

"We believe that all monuments should be in good taste and consistent with community standards," Greaves wrote in letter to state officials. "Our proposed monument, as an homage to the historic/literary Satan, will certainly abide by these guidelines."

Greaves said one potential design involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children. He said he expects the monument, if approved by Oklahoma officials, would cost about $20,000.

Rep. Mike Ritze, R-Broken Arrow, who spearheaded the push for the Ten Commandments monument and whose family helped pay the $10,000 for its construction, declined to comment on the Satanic Temple's effort, but Greaves credited Ritze for opening the door to the group's proposal.

[oyarde]

What does the Satanist staue look like ?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Satan, huh? Well, it is Oklahoma.

[oyarde]

How many Satanists can there be in Ok City ? Two ?

[TaftFan]

How much are bulldozers renting for these days?

[liberty2897]

What does the Satanist staue look like ?

Have no idea. Didn't see a link to the proposed design. ...sounds like it involves a pentagram.. Personally, I think a five-pointed star looks better than six. Whatever it is, will probably look better than the tablets I would imagine.

[eduardo89]

How much are bulldozers renting for these days?

My first thought as well.

[kcchiefs6465]

How much are bulldozers renting for these days?


My first thought as well.
Would you feel the same if the satanists decided to bulldoze the Ten Commandments?

[oyarde]

Have no idea. Didn't see a link to the proposed design. ...sounds like it involves a pentagram.. Personally, I think a five-pointed star looks better than six. Whatever it is, will probably look better than the tablets I would imagine.

So , should the Pythogoreans and Babylonians file against the Satanists for stealing the symbol ? LOL

[oyarde]

The Semitic Mesopotamians were probably using this as some sort of religious symbol by the 1890's BC ....

[eduardo89]

Would you feel the same if the satanists decided to bulldoze the Ten Commandments?

Obviously not. But I don't believe in freedom of religion.

[Feeding the Abscess]

If it's privately funded, can they really object? They approved another religious symbol, why not any religious symbols that are privately funded?

[oyarde]

What about the Athiests ? Do they get some blank air ?

[eduardo89]

If it's privately funded, can they really object? They approved another religious symbol, why not any religious symbols that are privately funded?

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

[James Madison]

A Satanist monument placed in a government statehouse..seems redundant.

Also, why do Satanists in New York give a flying fuck about what a bunch of country yokels do in flyover country?

[Cutlerzzz]

By Satanists do they mean 18 year old goths trying to sound scary?

[specsaregood]

If it's privately funded, can they really object? They approved another religious symbol, why not any religious symbols that are privately funded?

agreed. My only objection is that it is a group from NY attempting to put the statue in OK. But if it was some OK residents I think it would be just fine.

[oyarde]

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

The Muslims certainly would not recognize it , that is certain .

[specsaregood]

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

Why not?

[oyarde]

agreed. My only objection is that it is a group from NY attempting to put the statue in OK. But if it was some OK residents I think it would be just fine.

Yeah , I do not think there will be throngs of OK Satanists out to see the idol, NY , now thats different :), lol

[oyarde]

By Satanists do they mean 18 year old goths trying to sound scary?

No , worse , New Yorker adults with money , jobs and nothing else to do ......

[eduardo89]

Why not?

Because I'm a bigot.

[kcchiefs6465]

Obviously not. But I don't believe in freedom of religion.
Honesty is a good trait.

Most people would find it hard to justify why one is acceptable and not the other, you, you don't even care. Personally I think the situation is reminiscent of a 16 year old girl's attention whoring facebook statuses, and find the "controversy" amusing, but as far as destroying property, I'd be more suited to simply ignore them. This is what happens when everyone wears their beliefs on their sleeve. (I am no expert on the Bible, but I believe it is mentioned within it)

Whatever floats your boat though. You could always one up the satanists. Build a bigger and better calf for all to salute. Maybe the lightning bolt would be energized enough to vitrify the "Sunday Christians" and attention whoring satanists all the same? Wishful thinking.

[liberty2897]

Build a bigger and better calf for all to salute.

Already been done...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Charging_Bull_statue.jpg

[oyarde]

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

Actually , there may be merit to that , I could make that case I think.I would charge alot though.

[kcchiefs6465]

By Satanists do they mean 18 year old goths trying to sound scary?
They mean the kids who drink tomato juice and listen to Marilyn Manson.

But by Christians do they mean the most immoral and vile men among us; the ones who sin throughout the week and arrive Sunday afternoon to pay their coffers in return of absolvence; the wicked? Probably. I don't think the Bible was much keen on pimping your faith.

[oyarde]

Already been done...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Charging_Bull_statue.jpg

I thought of that too.LOL, they have own Moloch .

[kcchiefs6465]

Already been done...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Charging_Bull_statue.jpg
Lord knows the lightning bolt that should have hit that particular section of earth.

[oyarde]

A Satanist monument placed in a government statehouse..seems redundant.

Also, why do Satanists in New York give a flying fuck about what a bunch of country yokels do in flyover country?

Liberals are miserable creatures who are only amused when they make others miserable , One day they will have to be eliminated :)

[oyarde]

Since they will not be physically present to maintain the monument , OK needs to tabulate the fees for this and send out an invoice now . I can help them with that as well , for a few cases of beer .... (I feel acceptable monument maint fees will be very high as the work will be done by a city worker )

[TER]

Let them put up their monument so people can be reminded who the enemy of mankind really is.

[kcchiefs6465]

Let them put up their monument so people can be reminded who the enemy of mankind really is.
I'm sure the monument will be spurned anyways. It's not like they are gaining any support over the move. Some people thirst attention is the best reason I can see.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Let them put up their monument so people can be reminded who the enemy of mankind really is.


The Bay City Rollers?

[Feeding the Abscess]

Let them put up their monument so people can be reminded who the enemy of mankind really is.

People who waste time, money, and resources in a battle of 'my religion is better than yours'?

[TER]

People who waste time, money, and resources in a battle of 'my religion is better than yours'?

No, I am referring to Satan.

[TER]

I'm sure the monument will be spurned anyways. It's not like they are gaining any support over the move. Some people thirst attention is the best reason I can see.

I say let them put it up! At least we get a more honest look at who we fight against. Walking down Broadway or simply turning the tv channel, we are bombarded with satanic symbols left and right. And least with a monument we can more clearly see to find the place to go and spit on.

[liberty2897]

I'm sure the monument will be spurned anyways. It's not like they are gaining any support over the move. Some people thirst attention is the best reason I can see.

Not sure about that... I haven't thought much about pentagrams and satan since the 80's and motley crue. One good headline could help a lot. I don't know any Satanists personally (none that have mentioned it anyway), but I imagine that most of them are trying to point out something about other religions much more than they are trying to gain attention for themselves. Anyway, more power to them on the monument as long as it is private funding.

[TER]

Not sure about that... I haven't thought much about pentagrams and satan since the 80's and motley crue. One good headline could help a lot. I don't know any Satanists personally (none that have mentioned it anyway), but I imagine that most of them are trying to point out something about other religions much more than they are trying to gain attention for themselves. Anyway, more power to them on the monument as long as it is private funding.

They have a religion, you dope. They worship Satan and pray to demons.

[Natural Citizen]

The Semitic Mesopotamians were probably using this as some sort of religious symbol by the 1890's BC ....

Uh-uh. Pentagram is simply a two dimensional representation of 5 tetrahedrons . Ancients were way smarter than us. What do we know about a Schlafli Double Six?

They didn't need no stinking telescopes. :)

I'll swap to my old avatar for a while so you get the idea of what I'm taking about. Although not a pentagram, the geometry is what counts. Seems like satanism has been bastardized just about as much as organized religion as far as symbolism goes. A paradigm equal to the old left-right gag when they go at it around every December.

[oyarde]

Let them put up their monument so people can be reminded who the enemy of mankind really is.

I do not think that will work , people would be like " look at the pretty star , must be a war memorial " .....

[oyarde]

They have a religion, you dope. They worship Satan and pray to demons.

How do they know which demons they are praying too ? They get a catalog or something ?

[kcchiefs6465]

I say let them put it up! At least we get a more honest look at who we fight against. Walking down Broadway or simply turning the tv channel, we are bombarded with satanic symbols left and right. And least with a monument we can more clearly see to find the place to go and spit on.
I've seen a couple short videos on satanic symbology and Illuminati references in various media and found it all strange. Then I saw them burning a mock child sacrifice to a giant owl-god in the woods of California and was taken back. Of course I have a dollar bill in my pocket which symbolizes, to me at least, the all seeing apparatus of the state. Pagan overtones or Illuminati/secret society implications not overlooked, it's just what the all seeing eyeball reminds me of.

This I see more as attention whoring disenfranchise-es creating "controversy" for the sake of attention. I doubt little demons or tones are encouraging their plan. Some crave attention and act in odd ways. I'll never understand.

[TER]

How do they know which demons they are praying too ? They get a catalog or something ?

There are different demons with different powers. I wish revolution9 was still around, he would be having a field day with this thread.

[oyarde]

There are different demons with different powers. I wish revolution9 was still around, he would be having a field day with this thread.

Thats what I was afraid of.

[Christian Liberty]

Obviously not. But I don't believe in freedom of religion.

Would Jesus persecute someone for their religion? How would you punish people who believe in and follow false religions?

Or do you mean something different than I think you mean?

Would you arrest Ron Paul for worshipping at a Baptist church?:p


Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

Sure it is. Religion is man's attempt to get to God. I see no reason Satanism could not be one such attempt. Biblical Christianity is what is not a religion, since God does the saving work and not man.

A Satanist monument placed in a government statehouse..seems redundant.



I agree.



Also, why do Satanists in New York give a flying fuck about what a bunch of country yokels do in flyover country?

Think about the state you are talking about. That should answer your question;)

[Miss Annie]

There are different demons with different powers. I wish revolution9 was still around, he would be having a field day with this thread.

OOOHHHHH how I miss Randy! You are right TER, he would be fillin er up!

[Paulbot99]

In my experience, most Satanists are trolls.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Not that I give a shit about religion ("real" or not), here's how the Satanic church describes themselves.


Satan, to us, is symbolic of our rejection of tyranny, and we bow to no God or gods. We stand with the unjustly accused, the slandered minority, and the unsilenced inquirer. We offer our counterforce against mob intolerance and demand reasoned solutions to all problems. We hold nothing so sacred as to be unquestionable; No Truth impervious to revision in light of new knowledge. We strive to reserve belief in only that which is demonstrably true, and hold to even those with the reservation that they, too, may ultimately be overturned. In this, we embrace the role of the heretic — heresy as it applies to the unceremonious discarding of archaic fetters which bind reason and would persist in counter-productive dogmas.

We feel that by forcing people to look beyond superstitious out-group categorizations — to judge people for their concrete actions, we naturally encourage benevolence. There is a term in social psychology, moral self-licensing, that refers to the phenomenon in which those who define themselves in terms of moral superiority tend to act more brazenly in an immoral manner. We are happy to confuse and upset simplistic White Hat/Black Hat Good Guy/Bad Guy notions that serve to ignore one’s real-world deeds in favor of their symbolic fealty to social norms. We start with the basic premise that suffering is bad, and should be reduced wherever possible. If you are working to that end, you are doing good… all else is just pomp and pretension.

Essentially, a Satanist is Stefan Molyneux in a black robe trying to freak out the squares.

[oyarde]

Not that I give a shit about religion ("real" or not), here's how the Satanic church describes themselves.



Essentially, a Satanist is Stefan Molyneux in a black robe trying to freak out the squares.

They must have alot of time to kill . I split wood in my free time.

[PRB]

How many Satanists can there be in Ok City ? Two ?
yeah, exactly.

[kpitcher]

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

it's one of the recognized religions of the US. Appears to be a few hundred that are recognized. That's a lot of statues...

[fr33]

LMAO next they'll also be joining the gripe about lack of prayer in school.

[oyarde]

it's one of the recognized religions of the US. Appears to be a few hundred that are recognized. That's a lot of statues...

When Muhammed captured Mecca , he had all 360 pagan idols destroyed ( he hated pagans ). 631 AD if I recall . They( idols) add up quickly I guess .... When he conquered the Jewish Oasis of Khybar , he instituted a fifty percent tax on them ( did not like those one God people much as well )

[oyarde]

LMAO next they'll also be joining the gripe about lack of prayer in school.

Crossed my mind as well.

[PRB]

it's one of the recognized religions of the US. Appears to be a few hundred that are recognized. That's a lot of statues...

is Dudeism or Pastafarian recognized?

[PRB]

In my experience, most Satanists are trolls.

yeah, they are, they don't actually worship satan as much as they just want to offer shock value and offend Christians who actually believe in Satan.

[PRB]

Because satanism isn't a valid religion.

what the hell does that mean?

[Philhelm]

Greaves said one potential design involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children.

That's hellarious.

[jmdrake]

What does the Satanist staue look like ?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/masontemplar13_02.jpg

[belian78]

Obviously not. But I don't believe in freedom of religion.
Then how do you consider yourself any better than the statists in DC?

[belian78]

That's hellarious.
I see what you did there.

[oyarde]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_sociopol/masontemplar13_02.jpg

Interesting you would throw up the baphomet . It never existed and was just made up in " confessions" from Templars who were being tortured. They also spelled it wrong , pretty badly , not that I am a grammar guy . The Eliphas Levi depiction always looked like some weirdo Gabrus depiction to me .

[jmdrake]

Interesting you would throw up the baphomet . It never existed and was just made up in " confessions" from Templars who were being tortured. They also spelled it wrong , pretty badly , not that I am as grammar guy .

And do you think that whatever the satanists in the OP come up with will be a true and accurate depiction of satan? Somehow I doubt it.

[oyarde]

And do you think that whatever the satanists in the OP come up with will be a true and accurate depiction of satan? Somehow I doubt it.

Certainly not , and the " interactive display for children " seems more than a bit creepy to an old laid back guy like me.What kind of mind sits around and thinks up shit like that ? The torturing for false confessions thing does remind me of big govt though .....

[Ronin Truth]

Satan As Ruler of the Kingdoms of the World (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&ved=0CGYQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.truthmagazine.com%2Farchives% 2Fvolume37%2FGOT037206.html&ei=5v2lUsHeEOe6yAGNjYHICg&usg=AFQjCNGdM5LukUnW7jS15CwfQcysDw43kw&bvm=bv.57752919,d.aWc)

Though Washington D.C. seems much more appropriate.

Oklahoma had zero counties go for Obama in both 2008 and 2012.

[Acronies]

SCOTUS went nuts with Cantwell v. Connecticut and Everson v. Board of Education.

[oyarde]

I sometimes feel surrounded by debaucheries......

[Origanalist]

I sometimes feel surrounded by debaucheries......

That's because you are, and not just sometimes. Every time you venture out.

[pcosmar]

How many Satanists can there be in Ok City ? Two ?

Many more than that I suspect. I worry more bout those in disguise .

[pcosmar]

And do you think that whatever the satanists in the OP come up with will be a true and accurate depiction of satan? Somehow I doubt it.

No Idea about these folks,, Had not heard about it till this thread. But some do follow him.

I doubt anyone could come up with an accurate "depiction of satan".

I do believe that he exists,, as an Malevolent entity.

It makes a logical sense.. A balance between faiths. and that would be the constitutional position.

It might be a honest contrast,, Truth and Lies both on display.

[Miss Annie]

Many more than that I suspect. I worry more bout those in disguise .

It really doesn't look like they are hiding much.....

http://abcnews.go.com/US/satanist-church-rents-oklahoma-civic-center-exorcism-ritual/story?id=11524098

http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2010/10/23/satanists-gather-in-oklahoma-and-christians-protest/

http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=13368841

http://www.meetup.com/Ok-ahoma-Satanist/

http://www.kiddiepunk.com/teenage_satanists.htm

[pcosmar]

It really doesn't look like they are hiding much.....



meh,,
Those are the visible ones..
I ignore them as a rule.

[Suzanimal]

And do you think that whatever the satanists in the OP come up with will be a true and accurate depiction of satan? Somehow I doubt it.

Here's a good start...

http://i.imgur.com/khqE8Tg.jpg

[HOLLYWOOD]

Here's a good start...

http://i.imgur.com/khqE8Tg.jpg
I'm just 'Bedazzled' by all the hellish stuff related to government

PS:Depiction... accurate

[LibForestPaul]

What about the Athiests ? Do they get some blank air ?

No, they just get to throw spaghettit and meatballs at the other statues.

[oyarde]

Many more than that I suspect. I worry more bout those in disguise .

Well , naturally , my estimate is probably low , I was feeling optimistic at the time. Those in disguise , yes, I understand the problem with that .....