PA judge gets 28 years for literally selling kids to the prison system

[VBRonPaulFan]

Former Luzerne County Judge Mark Ciavarella Jr. was sentenced to serve 28 years in federal prison two years ago. Last week, a federal appeals court said it would not reconsider a decision upholding the ruling.

Ciaverella, 61, was convicted of racketeering charges for receiving $1 million in bribes from a constructor of juvenile detention facilities. The judge had violated individual rights for at least 4,000 cases between 2003 and 2008, denying defendants the right to counsel and the right to intelligently enter a plea.

Another judge, Michael Conahan was also accused of accepting $1 million in bribes from the same builder of the PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care detention centers.

However, it was Ciavarella who made a name for himself as the draconian, cold arm of the law. Ciavarella filled the beds of juvenile detention centers with first-time offenders, convicts of minor-crimes and children as young as 10 years old.

Fortunately, that same arm of the law has turned on the man now known as the "kids-for-cash" judge. His lawyers’ defense consisted of an appeal of what they saw as overly cruel punishment.

"The media attention to this matter has exceeded coverage given to many and almost all capital murders, and despite protestation, he will forever be unjustly branded as the `Kids for Cash' judge," reads their memo.

The judge still maintains his innocence and that the transfers were not illegal. Perhaps he will spend his 28 years appreciating the fine construction of the federal prison, much like the juvenile centers to which he sent thousands of children.


http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/pennsylvania-judge-mark-ciavarella-jr-convicted-selling-kids-juvenile-corrections

[klamath]

Should have gotten life.

[Origanalist]

Should have gotten life.

He basically did if he serves his full term. I wonder how he is going to fare living among those whose lives were shaped by someone just like him?

[klamath]

He basically did if he serves his full term. I wonder how he is going to fare living among those whose lives were shaped by someone just like him?It is the idea. Many people are sentenced to multi life terms. His crime to society was worse that a murder in how it destroyed many young peoples lives. People that hold a position of public trust should be held to a higher standard and the punishment should be meted out accordingly.

[jbauer]

Whats sad is he ruined a kids life for $250. ($1m/4000 cases) Just shows you what this Just-us system is all about. These kids that will grow up in a crappy household then become the next people signing up for the handouts.

[Christian Liberty]

It is the idea. Many people are sentenced to multi life terms. His crime to society was worse that a murder in how it destroyed many young peoples lives. People that hold a position of public trust should be held to a higher standard and the punishment should be meted out accordingly.

As such, I believe his execution would be completely justified.

That said, if he actually does serve 28 years, he likely won't get out. I hope he doesn't.

[mosquitobite]

Is this possibly similar to Boys Town and the Franklin Files?

[satchelmcqueen]

so he crushed over 4000 kids lives for money. they should give him the elec chair.

[Kotin]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.

[tod evans]

I have no qualms at all about the death penalty for any government employee convicted by a jury.

Prosecuting attorneys who are tasked with trying the cases of government employees should have strict civilian accountability too.

[tod evans]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.

I prefer disembowelment on the public square, but we're on the same page.

[Barrex]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.

Pih... we got softy over here.

[Christian Liberty]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.


I prefer disembowelment on the public square, but we're on the same page.

I can't defend torture. Put a bullet in his head and let God deal with him.

[Christian Liberty]

Pih... we got softy over here.


lol! I don't agree, but still, lol!

[Kotin]

I can't defend torture. Put a bullet in his head and let God deal with him.

Tell that to the children who's lives could have been and were ruined by this motherfucker.

In my mind, torture is for people just like that. Being an upholder of the law and doing this is THAT serious.. Maybe the next judge would think twice.

[tod evans]

I can't defend torture. Put a bullet in his head and let God deal with him.

I can't defend torture of civilians.

However I consider all government employees, and especially members of the "Just-Us" department, the only species worthy of slow and painful death.

Their ilk shows no mercy and I believe they deserve none.

[Christian Liberty]

Tell that to the children who's lives could have been and were ruined by this motherfucker.


Maybe I'd feel different if I were in their position. That doesn't make it moral.



In my mind, torture is for people just like that. Being an upholder of the law and doing this is THAT serious.. Maybe the next judge would think twice.

Well, I guess anytime anyone on here calls me "bloodthirsty" I can link them to this thread and shut them up;)

[klamath]

I actually would support the death penalty for this guy if I supported the death penalty. My non support of the death penalty is directly related to this, in that I don't trust the court system. Murderers and rapists if I knew they were guilty should get the axe.

[Christian Liberty]

I can't defend torture of civilians.

However I consider all government employees,

All government employees? Really?

I hope you haven't thought this through.


and especially members of the "Just-Us" department, the only species worthy of slow and painful death.
Their ilk shows no mercy and I believe they deserve none



You're right that they don't deserve it. That doesn't make torture moral.

Execute them and give everything that they own to the victims, to do with as they see fit. Anything more than that is cruelty for cruelty's sake, and I believe makes us too much like the people we hate.

YMMV.

[Origanalist]

There is no need, just put him in with the general population. It is only there where he can truly pay his debt to society.

[klamath]

No I don't support torture in ANY organized way.

[jbauer]

I have no qualms at all about the death penalty for any government employee convicted by a jury.

Prosecuting attorneys who are tasked with trying the cases of government employees should have strict civilian accountability too.

Cool, when do we get to start holding trials? Anything like the French Revolution?

[Christian Liberty]

I actually would support the death penalty for this guy if I supported the death penalty. My non support of the death penalty is directly related to this, in that I don't trust the court system. Murderers and rapists if I knew they were guilty should get the axe.

I don't know that I do either, in the current statist paradigm. I absolutely do support the death penalty in a free society. I think you kind of touched on why. Mind you, I know no court system is absolutely perfect, but I think in a free society it would be a lot closer. Right now the death penalty is expensive, drawn-out, and not very accurate. I believe a free market could solve all those problems. Of course, people might decide they didn't believe in execution, which would also be fine.

What you described is also one reason I can't tolerate torture. The other reason is that frankly, its just wrong. I don't think it fits with the golden rule. If, heaven forbid, I ever became a serial killing psychopath, I would want to be executed for the protection of the people around me. I wouldn't want to be tortured, nor would I see any use in torturing people. It doesn't help anybody or accomplish anything.

[Christian Liberty]

I can't defend torture of civilians.

However I consider all government employees, and especially members of the "Just-Us" department, the only species worthy of slow and painful death.

Their ilk shows no mercy and I believe they deserve none.

tod, you've mentioned that you were in the navy. Does this mean you deserve a "slow and painful death"?;)

[tod evans]

All government employees? Really?

I hope you haven't thought this through.



You're right that they don't deserve it. That doesn't make torture moral.

Execute them and give everything that they own to the victims, to do with as they see fit. Anything more than that is cruelty for cruelty's sake, and I believe makes us too much like the people we hate.

YMMV.

I'm not part of your "we".

I'm no longer young or idealistic either.

When I said "all" I meant it, from the janitor to the supreme court justices, if a jury finds 'em guilty of an offense on a citizen while acting in their official capacity Vlad is too nice.

[tod evans]

tod, you've mentioned that you were in the navy. Does this mean you deserve a "slow and painful death"?;)

Had I committed a crime against a civilian, been convicted by a jury, then hell yes.

[klamath]

I don't know that I do either, in the current statist paradigm. I absolutely do support the death penalty in a free society. I think you kind of touched on why. Mind you, I know no court system is absolutely perfect, but I think in a free society it would be a lot closer. Right now the death penalty is expensive, drawn-out, and not very accurate. I believe a free market could solve all those problems. Of course, people might decide they didn't believe in execution, which would also be fine.

What you described is also one reason I can't tolerate torture. The other reason is that frankly, its just wrong. I don't think it fits with the golden rule. If, heaven forbid, I ever became a serial killing psychopath, I would want to be executed for the protection of the people around me. I wouldn't want to be tortured, nor would I see any use in torturing people. It doesn't help anybody or accomplish anything.
The only time I could "understand" torture is if a creep had someones loved one captured and dying and would not tell them where they were dying at. A little neural prompting might be in order.

[Christian Liberty]

I'm not part of your "we".

I think I have a problem with the same people that you do;)


I'm no longer young or idealistic either.

That's not an argument of any kind. If you knew what kind of people (hardline statists) have used these types of arguments, if you've seen the kind of people who are older than me who I've had to debate with, you'd understand why this response annoys me. I wish I could put you in a room with my mom's mother for five minutes and you'd know what I'm talking about:p

Don't misunderstand, I know that you're smarter than I am. But age still isn't a fair argument.


When I said "all" I meant it, from the janitor to the supreme court justices, if a jury finds 'em guilty of an offense on a citizen while acting in their official capacity Vlad it too nice.

OK, I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant all government employees whatsoever deserved a slow and painful death, not just those who commit offenses on civilians. I thought you were literally saying all government janitors should be tortured to death. Hence why I thought you hadn't thought it through.

I've said before that any non-victimless actions committed by police in uniform should be punishable by death. I stand by that, just on principle. I see no issue with applying that to any government employees while working, when applicable, although I'm not sure how often it would come up for non-police.

[thoughtomator]

There is no lawful and appropriate remedy here. However, if someone took it into their own hands to apply an appropriate but unlawful remedy, and I sat on the jury, I would definitely not convict. I would never do such a thing myself, of course, but I can totally understand if one of the victims decided a jail sentence wasn't enough to produce justice in this case.

[Christian Liberty]

Had I committed a crime against a civilian, been convicted by a jury, then hell yes.

I agree with that, minus the torture. But technically, wouldn't any US soldier who killed anyone (Even another soldier, since the war was not defensive) in Iraq also deserve the death penalty? Not saying that should actually retroactively be applied, but technically I think the answer would be yes.


The only time I could "understand" torture is if a creep had someones loved one captured and dying and would not tell you where they were dying at. A little neural prompting might be in order.

If I was the juror and had to vote whether or not to convict someone for doing that, I would vote not to convict. If someone in the family of those women who were strip searched in Texas, or that guy who was all but raped in a hospital, hunted down and tortured the evil cops who did that to them to death, I would not vote to convict them. But that doesn't mean that torture should be legally codified, nor does it mean I can morally justify it.

[tod evans]

I lumped young and idealistic together because from the lens of age that's how it appears. :o

Even more than cops and jailers, I want prosecutors and judges held publically accountable...These professions are supposed to be the pinnacle of the "Just-Us" department so when, (not if) they get out of line there should be no penalty on earth more severe.

And if a street sweeper assaults/maims or otherwise ruins a civilians life while on the job him too.

[tod evans]

I agree with that, minus the torture. But technically, wouldn't any US soldier who killed anyone (Even another soldier, since the war was not defensive) in Iraq also deserve the death penalty? Not saying that should actually retroactively be applied, but technically I think the answer would be yes.


If you choose to apply this logic to "soldiers" then realistically the entire chain of command up to, and including the commander in chief must be held liable.

If this were implemented then I could get fully behind it, including disembowelment.

[Christian Liberty]

I lumped young and idealistic together because from the lens of age that's how it appears. :o


I know too many statists that would call me "idealistic" too:)

Even more than cops and jailers, I want prosecutors and judges held publically accountable...These professions are supposed to be the pinnacle of the "Just-Us" department so when, (not if) they get out of line there should be no penalty on earth more severe.

I agree, I just go with simple execution rather than execution + torture. If the death penalty were abolished for some reason, I'd go with life imprisonment. So yeah, I agree with you.


And if a street sweeper assaults/maims or otherwise ruins a civilians life while on the job him too.

I'm not sure why a street sweeper who assaults a civilian on the job should be punished anymore than anyone else who assaults someone. The reason I think this applies for cops is because of the position of authority that they hold (I agree that they shouldn't, mind you, but they still do, in the real world they do have special protections that other people don't.

If you choose to apply this logic to "soldiers" then realistically the entire chain of command up to, and including the commander in chief must be held liable.


Of course.



If this were implemented then I could get fully behind it, including disembowelment.

I guess you're a tad more harsh than me;)


There is no lawful and appropriate remedy here. However, if someone took it into their own hands to apply an appropriate but unlawful remedy, and I sat on the jury, I would definitely not convict. I would never do such a thing myself, of course, but I can totally understand if one of the victims decided a jail sentence wasn't enough to produce justice in this case.

Agree.

[klamath]

If we are going to start generally killing a torturing for war crimes, then I guess the only people that should not be killed in that country are those that do not participate in that counties society at all. (Paying taxes, using the country's infrastructure in any way or benefiting in any way by interacting with the evil doers) Using the internet designed by darpa should earn you a ride on the rack.

[VBRonPaulFan]

I don't think torture would be necessary or appropriate here. For someone who wielded so much power, his complete loss of freedoms will probably be a complete shock to him and losing 3 decades of your life is an insanely high price to pay, when you think about it. Roughly 1/3 of your life, gone. I think people underestimate that price, especially on here where we are so pro-liberty.

[Christian Liberty]

If we are going to start generally killing a torturing for war crimes, then I guess the only people that should not be killed in that country are those that do not participate in that counties society at all. (Paying taxes, using the country's infrastructure in any way or benefiting in any way by interacting with the evil doers) Using the internet designed by darpa should earn you a ride on the rack.

I wasn't seriously advocating executing every soldier who killed someone in Iraq, if you look back at the discussion you'll see why I chose to bring that up. That said, paying taxes is not a crime, or an act of aggression. Using infrastructure is not a violation of the NAP. Benefiting by interacting with the evil doers is not necessarily a violation of the NAP. Killing for them certainly is.


I don't think torture would be necessary or appropriate here. For someone who wielded so much power, his complete loss of freedoms will probably be a complete shock to him and losing 3 decades of your life is an insanely high price to pay, when you think about it. Roughly 1/3 of your life, gone. I think people underestimate that price, especially on here where we are so pro-liberty.'

But is the price as big as the price he has caused others to pay for no reason?

[VBRonPaulFan]

But is the price as big as the price he has caused others to pay for no reason?

Context. For him, probably.

[Christian Liberty]

Context. For him, probably.

I don't see how the context is really relevant. In total, he's stolen more than 28 years from other people. And frankly, as a government bureaucrat, I doubt his life is worth as much as the lives he destroyed.

His life should absolutely be ended. I'd be ticked off if he was ever released. Unfortuntely, he might be.

[tod evans]

The street sweeper was included simply because in my mind anyone who chooses to suck at the tit of public funding should be fully accountable to the public.

Government employment should be what one is subjected to not what one aspires to..

[angelatc]

He basically did if he serves his full term. I wonder how he is going to fare living among those whose lives were shaped by someone just like him?

Meh - it's federal prison. The majority of the mundanes are held in state prisons.

[Origanalist]

Meh - it's federal prison. The majority of the mundanes are held in state prisons.

I know a couple of people who went there. Bad things can and do happen.

[tod evans]

Meh - it's federal prison. The majority of the mundanes are held in state prisons.

John Gotti..

Stan Silverstein..

Fed prison is generally considered the big-time, where those who are incorrigible are sent.

Fed camps however have given rise to the club-fed image.

In recent decades immigration and crimes committed on federal land have shifted the populations demographic a bit in the lower security prisons.

[Christian Liberty]

The street sweeper was included simply because in my mind anyone who chooses to suck at the tit of public funding should be fully accountable to the public.

Government employment should be what one is subjected to not what one aspires to..

So by this logic someone on welfare or social security who commits assault should receive the death penalty.

I wouldn't go that far.

That said, I agree with the second part of what you said, with certain exceptions (Ron Paul being the most obvious.)

[tod evans]

So by this logic someone on welfare or social security who commits assault should receive the death penalty.

I wouldn't go that far.

Sustenance gleaned from tax-dollars should have pitfalls.

Failure to observe the rights of those who pay your salary should carry heavy penalties.

"Committing assault" is a loosely defined term that is often used to describe something as benign as slapping someone..

That said, the way I read and understand the constitution, government is to bow to the will of the people not the other way around.

[brushfire]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.

I'd drink to that...

http://seansturm.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/drawn-and-quartered.jpg


Then let ol Marv go to work with the surgical tubing...


http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121112215241/sincity/images/d/d3/Marv.png

[Christian Liberty]

Sustenance gleaned from tax-dollars should have pitfalls.

Failure to observe the rights of those who pay your salary should carry heavy penalties.


I agree, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest torturing someone to death for slapping a civilian while on the job.

"Committing assault" is a loosely defined term that is often used to describe something as benign as slapping someone..

In NYS slapping would be harassment, not assault. A violation, instead of a crime. In other states I think it differs.




That said, the way I read and understand the constitution, government is to bow to the will of the people not the other way around.

Agreed.

[mosquitobite]

Is this possibly similar to Boys Town and the Franklin Files?

Guys, I think it could quite possibly be!

http://deadlinelive.info/2011/11/11/penn-state-child-sex-abuse-scandal-mirrors-omahas-franklin-horror/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Mile


Sandusky was a star assistant coach at Penn State from the 1970s to the 1990s, and many assumed he would lead the team one day, or even head to pro football. He founded The Second Mile in 1977 for youngsters from broken homes and troubled backgrounds, building it into an organization that helped as many as 100,000 children a year through camps and fundraisers.

Among the big-time athletic figures listed as honorary directors were Cal Ripken Jr., Arnold Palmer, former Pittsburgh Steeler Franco Harris and Philadelphia Eagles coach Andy Reid. President George W. Bush praised the group as a "shining example" of charity work in a 1990 letter. (Sandusky's reaction: "It's about time, George! This is long overdue," he recalled in his autobiography, "Touched.")

But prosecutors said that running the charity gave Sandusky "access to hundreds of boys, many of whom were vulnerable due to their social situations."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/12/penn-state-scandal-sandusky_n_1090203.html

If we can connect this judge and youth detention center to the Second Mile, it is indeed another example of BoysTown/Franklin Files!

[mosquitobite]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/02/mom_blames_luzerne_county_judg.html

Fonzo's son was 17 and an all-star wrestler with a chance at a college scholarship when he landed in Ciavarella's courtroom on a minor drug paraphernalia charge. Though the teen, Edward Kenzakoski, had no prior criminal record, he spent months at the private lockups and a wilderness camp and missed his senior year of high school.

Kenzakoski emerged an angry, bitter and depressed young man. He committed suicide last June at the age of 23.

"He was just never the same. He couldn't recover," Fonzo said Tuesday. "He wanted to go on with his life, but he was just hurt. He was affected so deeply, more than anyone knew."

[phill4paul]

Was he forced to forfeit every asset in an effort to provide some restitution for his victims?

[tod evans]

I agree, but I wouldn't go so far as to suggest torturing someone to death for slapping a civilian while on the job.


That is in no way, shape or form what I have advocated.

[Snew]

Those kids... :(

[bolil]

Look, I understand the calls for death. But there are some variables that first need to be considered. Does this thing have any human children? If so, kill him not, rather put him to work. Be it servicing other inmates or making big rocks into small rocks. If he doesn't have any human children, STILL put him to work. While his aggressions should cost him his freedom, he shouldn't be killed. Well, maybe if his organs are in good shape. Let him choose: Organs harvested or work until expiration.

While it seems cruel, and unusual, it needs to be remembered that this man committed mass, and incredibly violent, aggression. Then, I would hold him personally responsible for every thing that happened to any of those people in prison.
.

[Philhelm]

A series of acts so despicable that the Legions of Hell would be dishonored to have this judge in their presence.

[LibForestPaul]

Wonder if he was an elected judge?

[Dianne]

This is par for the course in the Judicial system. I haven't met a judge yet, that wasn't Mafia.

[Origanalist]

Wonder if he was an elected judge?

It's not hard to find out....


Ciavarella is a lifelong resident of Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, having been raised in the East End section of the city and attending St. Mary's High School. After graduating from the local King's College he attended Duquesne University School of Law, receiving his law degree in 1975. Ciavarella entered private legal practice, becoming a partner in the firm of Lowery, Ciavarella and Rogers. From 1976 to 1978 he was city solicitor and then from 1978 until 1995 he served as solicitor for the city zoning board. In 1995 he ran for judge in Luzerne County on the Democratic ticket and was elected to a ten year term. He was re-elected to a second ten year term in 2005. Ciavarella was also active in several civic and Catholic organizations. He is married to the former Cindy Baer and the couple have three children.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ciavarella

[mrsat_98]

I prefer disembowelment on the public square, but we're on the same page.


There is no need, just put him in with the general population. It is only there where he can truly pay his debt to society.

Have them skin him alive and cover the next judges chair with his hide as an example.

[DamianTV]

When the Concentration Camps come to Amerika, there will likely be many many Private Concentration Camps.

Slavery is Profitable for the Slave Owners.

[mosquitobite]

It's not hard to find out....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Ciavarella

Ciavarella pleaded guilty on February 13, 2009, pursuant to a plea agreement, to federal charges of honest services fraud, wire fraud and tax evasion in connection with receiving $2.6 million in kickbacks from Robert Powell and Robert Mericle, the co-owner and builder respectively, of two private, for-profit juvenile facilities. In exchange for these kickbacks, Ciavarella sentenced children to extended stays in juvenile detention for offenses as minimal as mocking a principal on Myspace, trespassing in a vacant building, and shoplifting DVDs from Wal-mart.[6] More specifically, the crimes charged were: conspiracy to deprive the public of the "intangible right of honest services", or corruption, and conspiracy to defraud the United States by failing to report income to the Internal Revenue Service.[7] Ciavarella tendered his resignation to Governor Ed Rendell on January 23, 2009, prior to official publication of the charges.[2]

[mrsat_98]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.


I prefer disembowelment on the public square, but we're on the same page.

Skin him alive, then upholster a chair with his skin and make the next Judge sit in it as a reminder.

[Keith and stuff]

Guy should have been executed by dismemberment via 4 horses immedietely.

Not Ron Paul approved :toady:

[klamath]

Sarah Palin water boarding comments seem pretty tame compared to RPF approved torture.

[pcosmar]

So what of the For Profit Prisons that worked in collusion with this guy? Any charges? or business as usual?

[tod evans]

Sarah Palin water boarding comments seem pretty tame compared to RPF approved torture.

Big difference.......

Palin is wanting government employees to torture citizens who are suspected of committing a crime..

In this thread I've advocated for the slow painful death of governments employees who have actually committed crimes against their civilian employers.

[tod evans]

So what of the For Profit Prisons that worked in collusion with this guy? Any charges? or business as usual?

You're funny Pete..:rolleyes:

With their lobbying force they are immune under the "Just-Us" system....

[mrsat_98]

Sarah Palin water boarding comments seem pretty tame compared to RPF approved torture.

Government officials don't have right's secured by the constitution they have restrictions placed upon them by the constitution. Hang'em High by their balls.