4 dead, 63 injured after another NYC-bound passenger train derails

[enhanced_deficit]

3 train derail accidents in last couple of weeks are normal or unusual?


4 dead, 63 injured after NYC-bound Metro-North passenger train derails in Bronx

Officials said seven cars, including the locomotive, tore off the tracks Sunday near the Hudson River while headed toward Manhattan's Grand Central Terminal. Two people were thrown from the rail cars. Gov. Andrew Cuomo visited the scene, while one witness recounted, 'Maybe it was a minute, it felt like an eternity, I just wanted it to stop.'

By Joe Stepansky , Pete Donohue , Edgar Sandoval , Tina Moore AND Bill Hutchinson / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Sunday, December 1, 2013, 8:12 AM




Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-bound-metro-north-passenger-train-derails-bronx-article-1.1533963



These were recent news reports:

Amtrak Crescent train headed to New York derails in South Carolina

The train had 218 passengers and crew members onboard, but no injuries were reported. The cause of the accident is under investigation.

Monday, November 25, 2013, 9:44 AM


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1528159.1385390474%21/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/amtrak26n-2-web.jpg WHNS

An Amtrak train heading for New York City derailed early monday morning in Spartanburg County, S.C. Passangers were stuck on the train for more than eight hours.

Related Stories



22 injured after Lion Air plane skids off runway and into the sea in Bali (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/22-injured-lion-air-plane-overshoots-runway-crashes-sea-bali-article-1.1315687)


SPARTANBURG, S.C. — Several cars of the New York City-bound Amtrak Crescent with 218 people aboard went off the tracks early Monday as bags flew and jolted passengers clung to each other, authorities and passengers said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amtrak-train-derails-south-carolina-article-1.1528161 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/amtrak-train-derails-south-carolina-article-1.1528161#ixzz2mFn1DdSu)



Train carrying crude oil crashed and burning in West Alabama

Nov 08, 2013 3:44 AM EST


http://WBMA.images.worldnow.com/images/23912869_BG3.jpg (http://WBMA.images.worldnow.com/images/23912869_BG3.jpg)
Derailed train cars smoldering in West Alabama (ab
c3340.com)



UPDATE: Pickens Co. EMA Director Ken Gibson says they speculate that the fire started when the train cars hit each other during the derailment. Several agencies are investigating now, including NTSB, National Railroad Commission and the train owner Alabama Gulf Coast Railroad Systems.


http://www.abc27.com/story/23912869/train-crash-reported-in-west-alabama

[tod evans]

Hmmm,


More laws?

[enhanced_deficit]

Hmmm,


More laws?


Or more review/analysis :

What's going on with planes and trains?? Another big derailment today (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?422217-What-s-going-on-with-planes-and-trains-Another-big-derailment-today)

[tod evans]

Or more review/analysis :

What's going on with planes and trains?? Another big derailment today (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?422217-What-s-going-on-with-planes-and-trains-Another-big-derailment-today)

Betcha a cyber nickle somebody's going to craft legislation....

[Lucille]

The engineer, a 15-year Metro-North veteran, told officials he applied the brakes, but they didn’t respond, a source told the Daily News. The speed limit for the curve is 30 mph.

I'm sure it has something to do with more money being spent on the glorious workers than upkeep. Priorities.

Privatize it.

Amtrak Is a Tax-Sucking Behemoth That Deserves to Die
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/23/amtrak-is-a-tax-sucking-behemoth-that-de

[Dr.3D]

Even if the derailments were "terrorism" related, I'm pretty sure the government would do their best to keep that fact quiet.

[enhanced_deficit]

Both of you have good points, there has not been much public discussion on this in media it seems.

This was another one in Ohio couple of days ago:

Most Ohio derailment evacuees allowed back home (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQqQIoADAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2 Fnation%2F2013%2F11%2F28%2Ftrain-derailment-ohio-willard%2F3777641%2F&ei=iZ-bUpHrJcS1kQffvID4Aw&usg=AFQjCNH0G2v49vITARjrcSeKuaCSoxsH3w&bvm=bv.57155469,d.eW0)

USA TODAY-Nov 28, 2013
WILLARD, Ohio (AP) — Most of the estimated 425 families evacuated after a train derailment and chemical spill were allowed to return home ...

[Root]

Hmmm,


More laws?
More regulations.;)

[Original_Intent]

It's the system we have, and we just have to deal with it.

[Dr.3D]

It's the system we have, and we just have to deal with it.

Sounds like somebody with a broken automobile that doesn't have the money to fix it.

[acptulsa]

Sounds like somebody with a broken automobile that doesn't have the money to fix it.

Especially if they were dumb enough to trade something reliable in on a Yugo. Or private enterprise in on Amtrak, which is even worse.

[Anti Federalist]

Hmmm,


More laws?

Railroads are one of the most heavily regulated forms of transportation out there.

FedCoats have been writing rules for trains for well over 100 years now.

I need say no more...

[Anti Federalist]

It's the system we have, and we just have to deal with it.

That, literally, made me laugh out loud.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm sure it has something to do with more money being spent on the glorious workers than upkeep. Priorities.

Privatize it.

Amtrak Is a Tax-Sucking Behemoth That Deserves to Die
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/23/amtrak-is-a-tax-sucking-behemoth-that-de

MTA is state run tax sucking behemoth.

Anthrax dodged a bullet on this one.

MTA
Founder: Nelson Rockefeller

[Anti Federalist]

Or more review/analysis :

What's going on with planes and trains?? Another big derailment today (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?422217-What-s-going-on-with-planes-and-trains-Another-big-derailment-today)


Word that I heard, from the crash in Quebec that set the town on fire, was that the fly-by-wire, everfucking computer controlled, EMD - SD70M-2 locomotive was stopped, braked and unmanned and decided in its little computer pea brain to start up and run away.

I recently read an accident report of a drydocked vessel doing the same thing, just self starting, for no apparent reason, while men were inspecting the propeller, just because its computer brain, god bless it, decided to start the main engine.

Fly by Wire.

Full computer control.

Efficiency! Green-ness! Wave of the future! Get used to it!

Fuck. A. Bunch. Of. Computer. Planes. Trains. Automobiles. Vessels.

[Anti Federalist]

Of course, in a sane world, outside of gross and demonstrable negligence, these accidents would be shined on, sadly but realistically, as the cost of doing business.

Shit will happen.

Systems will fail.

Critical components will shit the bed, at the worst possible moment.

You work to mitigate these events, but still.

But we do not live in a sane world.

We live in an insane world, that thinks all risk can and should be reduced to zero, yet still have all the luxuries and technologies of modern living at the fingertips of said insane people.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Trains, cars, and planes crash all the time. No conspiracy behind this one.

http://i.imgur.com/AMOSzMF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MMxZB6P.jpg

Derailment happened near MP 11.1. Maximum authorized speed is 75 MPH, but drops to 30 MPH at the curve (MP 11.5). Last I heard the brakes failed.

[Anti Federalist]

Trains, cars, and planes crash all the time. No conspiracy behind this one.

Derailment happened near MP 11.1. Maximum authorized speed is 75 MPH, but drops to 30 MPH at the curve (MP 11.5). Last I heard the brakes failed.


More recent innovations are electronically controlled pneumatic brakes where the brakes of all the wagons (cars) and locomotives are connected by a kind of local area network, which allows individual control of the brakes on each wagon, and the reporting back of performance of each wagon's brakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_air_brake

A manual WABCO brake system is just about damn near bulletproof.

Not good enough.

Gotta hang a bunch of fucking computers on a system that has worked flawlessly for over 140 fucking years

[better-dead-than-fed]

When I was 8, I was on the Amtrak from D.C. to NYC, and I went to the front, and the guy let me drive the train.

[acptulsa]

When I was 8, I was on the Amtrack from D.C. to NYC, and I went to the front, and the guy let me drive the train.

Was a time I'd have considered that scary as hell. No longer.

Better an eight year old than a damned computer.

[Anti Federalist]

When I was 8, I was on the Amtrack from D.C. to NYC, and I went to the front, and the guy let me drive the train.

Reported.

[Dianne]

Well one thing for sure, they did not die with more than a 16 oz soda in their systems.... so NY can sleep soundly tonight.

[LibForestPaul]

MTA is state run tax sucking behemoth.


Hey, how else would all those swiss accounts get funding.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Prelim from the black box:

*Train was traveling 82 mph. As posted above, MAS is 75 mph just before the curve, but 30 mph through the curve.
*Engine throttle went to idle 6 seconds before it derailed came to a stop.
*Brakes were fully applied 5 seconds before it derailed came to a stop.

Looking like operator error? Though I believe that this line has ATC, so the emergency brakes should've applied when the train traveled faster than 75 mph. Not entirely sure though.

[Zippyjuan]

Maybe somebody had Locomotive Breath?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgBTgtuDcQc

[enhanced_deficit]

Train engineer's name is Rockefeller, he says he appplied brakes but train did not slow down.

[tod evans]

Betcha a cyber nickle somebody's going to craft legislation....

Government's on the job!


NYC train crash prompts feds to order extra operators for Metro-North

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/06/nyc-train-crash-prompts-feds-to-order-extra-operators-for-metro-north/?intcmp=latestnews

Federal transportation officials issued an emergency order Friday for Metro-North Railroad to immediately put extra operators on lines that have major speed changes, including the one where a speeding commuter train derailed this week, killing four people.

The Federal Railroad Administration order was a reaction to Sunday's wreck, where a commuter train flew off the tracks after hitting a sharp curve at 82 mph, nearly three times the 30-mph speed limit. The lone train operator told investigators he nodded at the controls and didn't apply the brakes until it was too late.

There was no system in place in his operating cab to ensure that he didn't miss the spot where he had to slow down as the curve approached.

"While we assist the National Transportation Safety Board in carrying out its investigation, this emergency order will help ensure that other Metro-North trains travel at appropriate, safe speeds," U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said in a statement.

The order will require the rail line to put at least two qualified drivers on trains where track speeds vary by at least 20 mph. Those extra drivers will be required until the railroad upgrades its existing signal and automatic control systems in a way that will deliver "adequate advance warning" of speed restrictions, officials said.

"These modifications will help prevent another over-the-speed-limit event if a locomotive engineer fails to take actions to appropriately slow or stop a passenger train," the railroad administration said in a statement.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which oversees Metro-North, said it would comply with the order. It couldn't immediately say whether it would have any problems putting extra operators on duty. It said it also is examining other steps to improve safety following the crash.

Separately, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Friday that he had asked transportation officials to make several safety changes, including expediting speed controls for areas vulnerable to crashes on the Metro-North and Long Island Rail Road commuter systems.

Cuomo also wants to accelerate efforts to install technology called "positive train control," which can automatically bring a train to a stop if it's exceeding a speed limit. Railroads are facing a congressional deadline to install such systems by December 2015.

[pcosmar]

The lone train operator told investigators he nodded at the controls and didn't apply the brakes until it was too late.

Very old technology would have prevented this..

There was once something called a Dead Man Switch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man%27s_switch


These switches are usually used as a form of fail-safe where they stop a machine with no operator from potentially dangerous action. They are commonly used in this manner in locomotives, aircraft refuelling, freight elevators, lawn mowers, tractors, personal watercraft, outboard motors, chainsaws, snowblowers, tread machines, snowmobiles, and many medical imaging devices. On some machines, these switches merely bring the machines back to safe state, such as reducing the throttle to idle or applying brakes while leaving the machines still running and ready to resume normal operation once control is reestablished.

bur WTF,, I am old fashioned.

[acptulsa]

Very old technology would have prevented this..

There was once something called a Dead Man Switch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man%27s_switch



bur WTF,, I am old fashioned.

Oh, Dead Man Switches are new and improved. Now they have things similar to the little radar sensors that open the door for you at the grocery store radiating the engineer all the time he's in the cab. So, instead of applying the brakes as soon as his foot slips off the pedal, it waits until he doesn't move at all for several seconds.

Of course, he doesn't fail to move for several seconds until he has been nodding off for several seconds (and on rough track, probably still moves even though he's fast asleep). Meanwhile, his foot probably would have slipped off the Dead Man Pedal as soon as he started nodding off.

But don't let that fool you. The radiating sensor is still the 'new and improved' model. And the company that overcharges for it has probably bribe--er, I mean encouraged--the FRA to make it mandatory, so stop living in the past already.

It could be made unmandatory, but no one wants to brib--er, I mean encourage the FRA to do that, so it's the system we've got and we have to deal with it.

[pcosmar]

And now a musical interlude,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMhEAlS4KTg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDvnvS9kUco


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyk3AEXvmLg

[tod evans]

My favorite train song;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBP15lRprPs

[brushfire]

Its all because of that radical faction of government haters, those economic terrorists, shutting down the government.

[acptulsa]

Its all because of that radical faction of government haters, those economic terrorists, shutting down the government.

Damned straight.

If they hadn't caved in, they might have starved the FRA right out. And if they had, these counterproductive regulations could have been annulled and this tragedy could have been prevented.

[enhanced_deficit]

Even if the derailments were "terrorism" related, I'm pretty sure the government would do their best to keep that fact quiet.

There are no news reports that these derailments are related to terrorism or any Afghan, Syria, Palestine foreign policy situations. But oddly, within minutes of Miriam Carey's car fleeing police check point, T-word was all over in media often with incorrect assertions.

In other current news:

Freight train derails, triggers hazmat spill next to New Jersey Turnpike

Emergency workers were still trying to clean a noxious, flammable material from the scene where a freight train derailed early Thursday. No injuries were reported.

By Joe Kemp / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Thursday, December 5, 2013, 6:48 AM


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1538172.1386243764%21/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/train6n-3-web.jpg WABC

Officials said the train was carrying a noxious, flammable material.

A train carrying hazardous materials derailed near New Jersey highway early Thursday, officials said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hazmat-spill-freight-train-derails-new-jersey-turnpike-article-1.1538175 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hazmat-spill-freight-train-derails-new-jersey-turnpike-article-1.1538175#ixzz2mo8MfX3t)

Three killed as freight train derails and falls into New Mexico ravine

Police say three train operators die as train carrying non-hazardous iron falls into ravine north-west of Las Cruces

Associated Press in Las Cruces

Sunday 1 December 2013 12.25 EST

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/12/1/1385932407309/Train-derailment-in-Grant-008.jpg A photo provided by the New Mexico State Police shows a train derailment in Grant County. Photograph: AP

Authorities said three train operators were killed on Saturday when their freight train derailed in southern New Mexico's Grant County and plunged down a ravine.

State police Sergeant Oscar Sosa said the three men were inside the locomotive when the crash occurred. He told the Las Cruces Sun-News that the locomotive was pulling eight cars near Bayard about 75 miles north-west of Las Cruces when it went off the tracks and down a 40ft to 50ft ravine. The cars derailed moments later.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/new-mexico-train-derail-ravine

[ronpaulfollower999]

Government's on the job!


NYC train crash prompts feds to order extra operators for Metro-North

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/06/nyc-train-crash-prompts-feds-to-order-extra-operators-for-metro-north/?intcmp=latestnews



I can name a dozen train wrecks that occurred despite two people in the cab.