Autistic kids being recruited for drone operators?

[coastie]

I was recently talking to a good friend of mine, when the subject of drones came up.

The conversation started with my asking her how her 13yr old son was doing, he has Asperger's Syndrome. He's on the usual cocktail of various SSRI's and other powerful drugs, and has been since I've known them(since he was about 4 yrs old).

We gradual drifted of the subject, when suddenly, she blurts out, "Oh my god, I can't believe I never told you this!"
Perplexed, I asked what it was. I still wish I hadn't.

She recalled to me that about 2 years ago, some men in Air Force uniforms approached her about her son coming down to the local AFB(Tyndall in Panama City) "to pay some video games". She was told it was some kid of research/study program for autistic kids. Anything electronic seems to calm him down, especially video games. Not thinking anything of it, and desperate for help, she said "Sure, why not?".

About a week later, she was told to come on down to the base with her son. After a brief meeting, she was under the impression that they were simply going to observe him while he plays a game. They took her son into a small room that she could not go into with him. After about an hour, her son came out, and seemed ok.

On the car ride home, she asked him what kind of video games they had him playing. He told her all about how cool it was to fly a "UAV plane" from that little room. She thought originally they had him in a flight simulator of some sort. Some time had passed when it dawned on her what they really had him flying.

I was reminded of this today because of this post at DP: http://www.dailypaul.com/306521/would-you-want-your-child-to-serve-as-a-drone-operator-or-paid-assassin

It's perfect. These folks are basically incapable of feeling any empathy. Get someone with Asperger's to fly the drones, and you don't have to worry about them going on a guilt trip about killing people.


'Merica, fuck yeah.

[squarepusher]

I don't think they would trust multi-million dollar equipment to a kid, as well as implications of mistakes.

I've worked with autistic kids, and they can't really be controlled or put in position of responsibility.

[specsaregood]

It's perfect. These folks are basically incapable of feeling any empathy. Get someone with Asperger's to fly the drones, and you don't have to worry about them going on a guilt trip about killing people.


That is not true. People with aspbergers and autism are perfectly capable of feeling empathy to the same degree as anybody else. The problem they have is reading/understanding visual cues that trigger such feelings. you are thinking of sociopaths, not people with aspbergers.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Interesting post! rep+

Though I wouldn't say that Autistic people (http://www.autism-world.com/index.php/2010/03/29/the-difference-between-sociopaths-and-aspergers-syndrome/) can't feel empathy... they just have a hard time reading body language, so to us it might appear they don't feel emotions by how they react. Not sure how that would factor in to the Air Forces mission; perhaps if you can't tell your target is a passive non-threat, you will have little problems coping with carrying out the mission. That would be my guess.

Or maybe this has something to do with it: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/07/29/206667837/boys-with-autism-or-adhd-more-prone-to-overuse-video-games

[Ender]

I don't think they would trust multi-million dollar equipment to a kid, as well as implications of mistakes.

I've worked with autistic kids, and they can't really be controlled or put in position of responsibility.

Disagree.

I've worked with several autistic kids that were bloody geniuses and can be brought on to a team if they are treated correctly- and especially if their parents didn't fill them up with drugs.

Sounds likes OSC was on the money and years ahead with Ender's Game.

[Anti Federalist]

And the argument devolves into what autism is or isn't.

SMMFH

Not the fucking point people!

The point is that here we have a first third hand account of the Department of Doom apparently, actively recruiting children with "developmental difficulties" to pilot their killing machines, for, what we can assume, better killing efficiency.

Christ help us all.

[erowe1]

It's not funny. But this was anticipated by Arrested Development. And in the show, it was hilarious. For it to be real is horrifying.

[Cutlerzzz]

They aren't going to let an 11 year old with no training fly a drone and people with autism feel guilt.

I rate this thread 3/10.

[Anti Federalist]

They aren't going to let an 11 year old with no training fly a drone and people with autism feel guilt.

I rate this thread 3/10.

Since mom was not allowed to see what was going on, it most likely was a simulator of some sort.

[Christian Liberty]

And the argument devolves into what autism is or isn't.

SMMFH

Not the fucking point people!

The point is that here we have a first hand account of the Department of Doom apparently, actively recruiting children with "developmental difficulties" to pilot their killing machines, for, what we can assume, better killing efficiency.

Christ help us all.

True. I'm absolutely ticked off. Like, if I knew that kid I'd seriously consider going to jail...

[Christian Liberty]

As someone with AS this kind of stuff really, really ticks me off. Which should discredit the "People with Asperger's dont' feel empathy" meme:rolleyes:

[MelissaWV]

And the argument devolves into what autism is or isn't.

SMMFH

Not the fucking point people!

The point is that here we have a first hand account of the Department of Doom apparently, actively recruiting children with "developmental difficulties" to pilot their killing machines, for, what we can assume, better killing efficiency.

Christ help us all.

It is a part of the point, though, because it forms the basis for the OP.


Some time had passed when it dawned on her what they really had him flying.

She drew the conclusion that he was flying actual drones, and the OP says "it's perfect" because "these folks are basically incapable of feeling any empathy." The fact that this is totally wrong does put a bit more of a question mark on the whole thing. I don't see it as first hand, and don't see how you can, since it's a poster's friend discussing her deductions, being reported to us by the poster. By definition it isn't a first hand account.

I have no doubt the military does things like this from time to time, but I am also of the opinion that it'd create a huge liability at this time to have children flying actual drones in combat. More likely, it is part of a test/study to see how easy the drones are to fly, and that data will eventually lead us to have children piloting them. We're just not quite there yet. There needs to be another big scare first.

[Christian Liberty]

Sometimes I really hate being awake. I haven't been truly "happy" for any long periods of time since. I'm afraid of literally falling straight into 1984...

[Cutlerzzz]

Since mom was not allowed to see what was going on, it most likely was a simulator of some sort.

A simulator? Probably.

But no chance of a real drone. The OP's ignorance of Autism also makes the story less believable.

[Anti Federalist]

It is a part of the point, though, because it forms the basis for the OP.



She drew the conclusion that he was flying actual drones, and the OP says "it's perfect" because "these folks are basically incapable of feeling any empathy." The fact that this is totally wrong does put a bit more of a question mark on the whole thing. I don't see it as first hand, and don't see how you can, since it's a poster's friend discussing her deductions, being reported to us by the poster. By definition it isn't a first hand account.

I have no doubt the military does things like this from time to time, but I am also of the opinion that it'd create a huge liability at this time to have children flying actual drones in combat. More likely, it is part of a test/study to see how easy the drones are to fly, and that data will eventually lead us to have children piloting them. We're just not quite there yet. There needs to be another big scare first.

Never said it was a first hand account.

At best it is a third hand account, son to mother to OP.

We can dismiss it as bullshit, or run with as being mostly true.

Given what Mordor has been up to lately, I'd say true.

[Christian Liberty]

A simulator? Probably.

But no chance of a real drone. The OP's ignorance of Autism also makes the story less believable.

Maybe it wasn't real, but it may well have been a simulator of a real drone. And... did the 11 year old kid know it was fake?

[Christian Liberty]

Never said it was a first hand account.

At best it is a third hand account, son to mother to OP.

We can dismiss it as bullshit, or run with as being mostly true.

Given what Mordor has been up to lately, I'd say true.

I'd like to hope not, but I seriously doubt it. For much the same reasons as you doubt itt.

My head is seriously spinning on this one. Yeah, some of the things the OP said about AS are not really accurate, but that doesn't mean it was completely fake either. I'd like to think it was, but I doubt it.

[Cutlerzzz]

Maybe it wasn't real, but it may well have been a simulator of a real drone. And... did the 11 year old kid know it was fake?

It definitively isn't real.

[MelissaWV]

Never said it was a first hand account.
At best it is a third hand account, son to mother to OP.

We can dismiss it as bullshit, or run with as being mostly true.

Given what Mordor has been up to lately, I'd say true.


...

The point is that here we have a first hand account of the Department of Doom apparently, actively recruiting children with "developmental difficulties" to pilot their killing machines, for, what we can assume, better killing efficiency.

Christ help us all.

Try again? :)

[specsaregood]

Not the fucking point people!


If it wasn't the point then the OP shouldn't have made it the basis of his conclusion on why they were supposedly targeting these kids for military purposes.


It's perfect. These folks are basically incapable of feeling any empathy. Get someone with Asperger's to fly the drones, and you don't have to worry about them going on a guilt trip about killing people.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I think this is the point of the research:


Report: High Levels Of 'Burnout' In U.S. Drone Pilots

Around 1,100 Air Force pilots fly remotely piloted aircraft, or drones. These planes soar over Iraq or Afghanistan, but the pilots sit at military bases back in the United States.

A new Pentagon study shows that almost 30 percent of drone pilots surveyed suffer from what the military calls "burnout." It's the first time the military has tried to measure the psychological impact of waging a "remote-controlled war."

The report, commissioned by the U.S. Air Force, shows that 29 percent of the drone pilots surveyed said they were burned out and suffered from high levels of fatigue. The Air Force doesn't consider this a dangerous level of stress.

However, 17 percent of active duty drone pilots surveyed are thought to be "clinically distressed." The Air Force says this means the pilots' stress level has crossed a threshold where it's now affecting the pilots' work and family. A large majority of the pilots said they're not getting any counseling for their stress.


http://www.npr.org/2011/12/19/143926857/report-high-levels-of-burnout-in-u-s-drone-pilots




Boys With Autism Or ADHD More Prone To Overuse Video Games

Boys with autism spectrum disorders or with ADHD are both prone to problematic use of video games, according to a study.

The researchers asked the parents of boys ages 8 to 18 to report on their child's video game use, including hours of use and the types of games they play.

The boys with autism spectrum disorders spent twice as much time playing video games as did the typical boys, two hours a day compared to one. The boys with ADHD played 1.7 hours a day on average. That means that the boys with autism or ADHD were reaching the maximum two hours a day for screen time set by the American Academy of Pediatrics, before adding in TV or other screen use.

Earlier studies of children with ADHD or autism also have found increased use of video games, but this is the first study to compare the two with typically developing children.

The boys with ADHD or autism also scored higher on a test intended to measure dependence on video games. The more inattentive symptoms they had, the more likely they were to score higher for problematic video game use. The study authors speculate that because children with autism often have restricted interests and preoccupations, they may be more likely to become overly dependent on video games.

And boys with ADHD or autism were far more likely to have video game systems in their rooms. About 43 percent of them had systems in their rooms, compared to 12 percent of typical boys. (No word on how iPods and other mobile devices factor in.)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/07/29/206667837/boys-with-autism-or-adhd-more-prone-to-overuse-video-games

[heavenlyboy34]

I do not like your Brave New World, Uncle Sam
I do not like green eggs and spam
nope nope nope.

[coastie]

Sheesh, some are getting a little bent out of shape here...so let me clarify.

1. This is NOT my account, it is hers. Word for word. I was so horrified/shocked/enraged/saddened, that I was literally at a loss for words, and never asked about it again. I was merely reminded of it today by the link I posted in the OP.

2. As stated in OP, I've known this kid for a decade. "No empathy" may have been a bit "harsh" to some - but I'm going off personal experiences with this particular child. He is not the only one in my circle of life with this condition, but is, however, the only one I know that does show a sharp lack of empathy, and his own mother described his condition to me in this way. This may as well be side effects of the Log Island cocktails of BigPharma meds he takes(she's on them as well:rolleyes:). I apologize if I offended anyone.

3. She never went into the room, and I'm assuming this was some sort of simulator, and not a real drone, get real people.

4. I have no idea if they contacted her again.They never went back, I do remember her saying that.


The whole point was that this is even happening in the first place, not the correct spectrum of autism, or whether or not he was flying a real drone, I mean - really?

[donnay]

Kind of reminds me of this movie:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lodj3ZT4tOU

[MelissaWV]

Sheesh, some are getting a little bent out of shape here...so let me clarify.

1. This is NOT my account, it is hers. Word for word. I was so horrified/shocked/enraged/saddened, that I was literally at a loss for words, and never asked about it again. I was merely reminded of it today by the link I posted in the OP.

2. As stated in OP, I've known this kid for a decade. "No empathy" may have been a bit "harsh" to some - but I'm going off personal experiences with this particular child. He is not the only one in my circle of life with this condition, but is, however, the only one I know that does show a sharp lack of empathy, and his own mother described his condition to me in this way. This may as well be side effects of the Log Island cocktails of BigPharma meds he takes(she's on them as well:rolleyes:). I apologize if I offended anyone.

3. She never went into the room, and I'm assuming this was some sort of simulator, and not a real drone, get real people.

4. I have no idea if they contacted her again.They never went back, I do remember her saying that.


The whole point was that this is even happening in the first place, not the correct spectrum of autism, or whether or not he was flying a real drone, I mean - really?


Some time had passed when it dawned on her what they really had him flying.

My apologies for misreading your own post regarding the horrors of what they really had him flying. I did not realize it took time for it to dawn on her that he was flying a simulation. I'm glad you cleared that up.

It sounds like she was gung-ho about it every step of the way anyhow. If she didn't take him there and let him into a room without her supervision, perhaps there wouldn't be such a mystery to it. Instead, she saw uniforms and thought they could help. To me, THAT is the point.

[Christian Liberty]

I apologize if I offended anyone.
No worries.

[Anti Federalist]

Try again? :)

Ow, ya got me, Pilgrim.

http://www.marxwildwest.com/goldmarx%20cb%20shot.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Yes, this is what I meant.


Sheesh, some are getting a little bent out of shape here...so let me clarify.

1. This is NOT my account, it is hers. Word for word. I was so horrified/shocked/enraged/saddened, that I was literally at a loss for words, and never asked about it again. I was merely reminded of it today by the link I posted in the OP.

2. As stated in OP, I've known this kid for a decade. "No empathy" may have been a bit "harsh" to some - but I'm going off personal experiences with this particular child. He is not the only one in my circle of life with this condition, but is, however, the only one I know that does show a sharp lack of empathy, and his own mother described his condition to me in this way. This may as well be side effects of the Log Island cocktails of BigPharma meds he takes(she's on them as well:rolleyes:). I apologize if I offended anyone.

3. She never went into the room, and I'm assuming this was some sort of simulator, and not a real drone, get real people.

4. I have no idea if they contacted her again.They never went back, I do remember her saying that.


The whole point was that this is even happening in the first place, not the correct spectrum of autism, or whether or not he was flying a real drone, I mean - really?

[Anti Federalist]

If it wasn't the point then the OP shouldn't have made it the basis of his conclusion on why they were supposedly targeting these kids for military purposes.

I see the OP has clarified his thoughts on this.

[Henry Rogue]

It definitively isn't real.You don't know that for sure, unless you have flown these drones yourself. You can get a private pilots license at 16. They wouldn't let him take off or land, but maybe a shallow turn or ask him to keep it in level flight at a particular altitude doesn't seem to risky. The system probably has safeguards that prevent stalls and terrain avoidance. On the other hand it is probably closer to flying IFR than VFR and that takes a heck of a lot more training than a demo flight. That being said, it was probably a simulator.