Vermont to Issue "REAL ID"

[Keith and stuff]

There is video at the link. New Hampshire is famous for being the first state to reject special funding for REAL ID but now, around 20 states including ME, MT and AK have rejected REAL ID. On the other hand, NY, MI and WA offer REAL ID compliant enhanced licenses with RFID chips, which allow people to go to some foreign counties without a passport. VT will start doing that next year.

The federal government keeps delaying the REAL ID deadline but continues to claim that drivers in 20 states will not be able to fly commercially unless those states change state laws.

How do you feel about having a yellow star on your driver's license the the requirements to show your yellow star every time you enter any federal building or try to fly or cross a border?

Vermont to Issue "REAL ID"
Matt Austin
11/21/2013 10:11 PM
http://www.mychamplainvalley.com/story/vermont-to-issue-real-id/d/story/pL-cP2-3ckWoboGaCbXGTQ?hpt=us_bn7


MONTPELIER, Vt. - Changes are coming to driver's licenses in Vermont.

Starting January 1st, Vermont will start issuing what's called "REAL ID" cards.

This all goes back to 2005 and the response to the terrorist attacks on the US. Congress passed the "REAL ID" Act which aims to standardize driver's licenses and what's required to get one. Now it's coming to Vermont.

Starting in January 2014 if you walk into a Vermont DMV, you might leave with a yellow star on your license.



"They really need to do nothing to get there because because people with REAL ID or wish to get REAL ID already know that process or learn it easily," says Ide.

REAL ID has been controversial and many states have opted out. Many have complained about its overall cost, and the concern some of your personal information will be stored.

The feds have even delayed the deadline.

But if you don't have a REAL ID, there could be a problem at airports.

"Had Vermont not proceeded with REAL ID compliant, there was that possibility that the federal government would limit access to commercial airlines," says Ide.

The Vermont DMV says all personal information will only be stored in the state and it will not be entered into a national database.

Now each state is handling the "REAL ID" differently.

[Anti Federalist]

The Vermont DMV says all personal information will only be stored in the state and it will not be entered into a national database.

Oh, Hahahahahahahah.

[DamianTV]

The Vermont DMV says all personal information will only be stored in the state and it will not be entered into a national database.

The only thing that matters is that the Data is forcibly stored AT ALL.

[invisible]

around 20 states including ME, MT and AK have rejected REAL ID

I think it's a lot fewer than 20 states these days. Any lists I've seen in the last year or two seem to be outdated now, as more and more states have bent over for this garbage. Two examples I personally know of:

IA is still listed as not complying, but they DID get stuck with it within the last couple years (don't know the details of exactly when or how it happened, but suspect terry braindead is the culprit).

OK is still listed as not complying, but there has been an ongoing battle over it, and current status is that OK is stuck with it, for at least the time being. To my knowledge and understanding, it had been nullified by the state legislature. Then fallin bent over for it when the feds threatened to yank highway funding. The state legislature passed a "religious exemption" this year, but it got vetoed by fallin. In spite of state law saying otherwise, it appears OK will have real id until fallin is out, hopefully in the next election. The Kaye Beach lawsuit is still pending, a notice of summary judgement has been filed, but the state is still refusing to hear the case!

Anyone else have updates on which states have bent over, and which are still refusing to go along? Anyone know of an updated, accurate, current list?

[Keith and stuff]

Thanks for correcting me. I'm really not sure of the exact number of states that are in status X, Y or Z. The ACLU claimed this in March 2012, "If you've been fishing in your pocket trying to find your national ID card, stop. Twenty-five states, either through statute or legislative resolution, rejected the act or said they would not comply with Real ID, and 15 states have laws prohibiting compliance with Real ID." So was it only 15 states that were against REAL ID, at most? https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/yes-states-really-reject-real-id

The bad news you bring is fitting with the thumbs down for this thread.

There is this old map that shows 16 states passing laws against REAL ID. But you said OK has changed. And WA has gone so far as to created enhanced diver's licenses with RFID chips. According to this article ( http://www.examiner.com/article/homeland-security-certifies-six-more-states-as-real-id-compliant ), GA and UT are now REAL ID compliant. http://assets.fiercemarkets.com/files/governmentit/fierceimages/realidmap_0.jpg

Maybe it's down to only 12 hold out states now?

Get your yellow star driver's license. WV and VT are doing it so it's gotta be a good thing :(
http://www.transportation.wv.gov/dmv/Drivers-Licenses/Documents/DL-with-DHS-M.jpg

[invisible]

The problem is that so many states seem to have passed nullification laws or resolutions, but few have actually followed their own laws and have implemented real id anyways. So most of these "nullification" efforts have been mere window dressing, in reality. And none of the lists I've seen seem to have taken this into account, they simply say something like "nullified by statute" for states that have implemented it anyways.

It will be extremely interesting to see what happens here in OK. The voters don't want it. The state legislature doesn't want it and has passed laws against it twice (nullification passed, and then the religious exemption got vetoed after fallin bent over). The state is refusing to let the religious exemption lawsuit happen, which of course would be key to overturning it in other states. We seem to be stuck with it here for only as long as fallin remains in office.

[invisible]

As stated in my previous post, many states are passing legislation or resolutions rejecting real id, but then implementing it anyways, even if they aren't calling it by name. Just with very little poking around, here's a few more examples:

http://news.yahoo.com/nineteen-jurisdictions-now-meet-federal-real-id-rules-143000680.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 28, 2013 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has certified 19 states as compliant with the REAL ID Act's rules. Alabama, Florida, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah, and Vermont are the latest states to join Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming as meeting the Act's requirements.

http://www.governing.com/news/state/sl-feds-give-states-more-time-on-real-id.html

Pennsylvania last year became the 16th state to refuse to comply with Real ID.
PA is another state that has bend over backwards to comply (and was one of the first to do so, given that the governor at the time went into DHS and half of those he appointed to the state DOT went into one of the biometrics companies) while claiming at the same time that they were not complying.

The 13 states that already comply with Real ID are Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Indiana, Maryland, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

http://florida.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2012/07/chalk-up-another-loss-for-real-id/

Colorado has been REAL ID compliant since April 2011

This link has a map which is quite different than the one that Keith posted. Note how many "non-compliant" states listed on the map Keith posted are listed on this one as being at FULL compliance, or nearly so!
http://www.secure-license.org/article/real-id-progress-states-having-impact-identity-theft

10/08/2010 Currently, 11 states are in compliance with the 18 Interim REAL ID Benchmarks with Arkansas and Connecticut soon to follow.

http://www.cis.org/real-id

Washington State has managed to secure its driver’s license issuance and close its most well-known loopholes — moving much closer to REAL ID compliance — despite being one of three states that has prohibited REAL ID implementation.

11 states are already fully compliant with all 18 of the REAL ID material compliance benchmarks: Alabama, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, South Dakota, and Utah. Another eight states are within one to three benchmarks of full compliance: Arkansas, Connecticut, Georgia, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Dakota, and Wyoming.
MT seems to be the only state following it's own nullification laws!

Montana, Oklahoma, and Washington prohibit REAL ID compliance. Illinois has only nine benchmarks completed, but is working toward compliance on the remaining nine material compliance benchmarks.

And that's without even trying very hard. If I dig a little more, I'm pretty sure I can find a few more examples of states that keep getting listed on these maps as being non-complying or have passed legislation / resolutions, yet seem to have backdoored implementation anyways. (I seem to recall ID and AZ as having complied, but didn't specifically search for info on those two states yet) As far as I know, the only states that have REALLY not complied are NH and ME. MT is a possible add to that list, but I haven't personally confirmed it one way or the other yet.

[phill4paul]

Does anyone here truly believe that this will NOT be fully enacted across the country within the next 10 years?

[pcosmar]

Does anyone here truly believe that this will NOT be fully enacted across the country within the next 10 years?

Since when has overwhelming opposition stopped them.

[LibForestPaul]

a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a state to any person unless the state is meeting the requirements
Why would a federal agency require a state issued DL or for what purposes?

[Anti Federalist]

Why would a federal agency require a state issued DL or for what purposes?

TSA.

[Keith and stuff]

And that's without even trying very hard. If I dig a little more, I'm pretty sure I can find a few more examples of states that keep getting listed on these maps as being non-complying or have passed legislation / resolutions, yet seem to have backdoored implementation anyways. (I seem to recall ID and AZ as having complied, but didn't specifically search for info on those two states yet) As far as I know, the only states that have REALLY not complied are NH and ME. MT is a possible add to that list, but I haven't personally confirmed it one way or the other yet.

NH did pass HB174 - prohibiting the department of safety from providing motor vehicle records for the purpose of creating or enhancing a federal identification database, this year. It was signed by the governor. The majority of the sponsors were free staters and the bill went unopposed.
1/30/2013 H Committee Report: Ought to Pass with Amendment #0079h(NT) for Feb 6 (Vote 14-0; CC); HC 11, PG.153
2/6/2013 H Ought to Pass with Amendment #0079h(NT): MA Voice Vote; HJ 16, PG.305-306
4/8/2013 S Committee Report: Ought to Pass with Amendment #2013-1126s, 4/18/13; Vote 5-0; CC; SC16
4/18/2013 S Committee Amendment 1126s, AA, Voice Vote;
6/27/2013 H Signed By Governor 06/27/2013; Effective 06/27/2013; Chapter 0135
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/bill_docket.aspx?lsr=78&sy=2013&sortoption=&txtsessionyear=2013&txtbillnumber=HB174


In 2012, a bunch of non-liberty Republicans sponsored a bad bill to bring NH a little more into compliance with REAL ID but it failed in the House and never made it to the Senate. HB455 - authorizing optional enhanced drivers' licenses and optional enhanced nondrivers' picture identification cards.


In 2010, a free stater got his bill, HB1374 - relative to the prohibition against participation in a national identification card system, passed into law. Only 2 people in the House were on the record as opposing the new law.


And of course, there is the original 2007 law, HB685.

[invisible]

Yup. So far, NH and ME have been the only ones I've been able to find, but I still have a few more left to check. Here's the next batch:

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013011631778/us/homeland-security/real-id-compliance-and-the-effect-of-deferred-action.html

Another 27 have met or will meet the first 18 "material compliance" benchmarks that have been used for years as a measure of compliance. This includes the four states issuing enhanced driver's licenses that meet REAL ID material compliance tenets produced for the State Department for border crossing, with Minnesota to be the fifth to begin production.

http://thetruthaboutminnesota.org/cgi/index.pl?function=get_news&mode=news&code=current&item=131468&xmode=pass-act-2

Jul. 12, 2009 Senate Bill S.1261 -- The PASS ID Act is being proposed which would replace the originally proposed REAL ID. The PASS ID and the REAL ID are equally dangerous! They both require a radio frequency chip and some type of biometric measure like a retinal print or thumb print to ID someone.

Unfortunately, even though the Minnesota legislature passed a bill to prohibit the implementation of the REAL ID with overwhelming bipartisan support, Governor (I wanted to be VP?) Pawlenty vetoed it.

http://cis.org/kephart/montana-real-id-legal-presence

Montana has just passed a law requiring both legal presence for driver's license applicants and expiration of a driver's license on the same day that the holder's federally mandated legal presence expires (in the case of nonimmigrants). Oddly, this is the same REAL ID secure driver license law that Montana's Gov. Brian Schweitzer described in March 2008 on NPR as a "harebrained scheme" for "kookie IDs that do not make us more secure." Back then, Schweitzer touted that his legislature voted 150 to 0 to not implement REAL ID. On April 18, 2011, three years later, he partially swallowed his words (although he had not a word to say) by signing a law that directly supports the legal presence aspects of REAL ID.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=40059

At least I thought so, until I seen an article in the Billings Gazette, on June 11, 2008; Page 2C in the Local and State Section. (Don’t bother contacting the Billings Gazette for a copy since they claim it isn’t in their archives and they couldn’t get me a copy of it. I got my copy off of Microfilm in the Library, along with another from a friend who clips articles.) Mr. Dean Roberts, administrator of the Montana Department of Motor Vehicle Division, followed the recommendations of the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, instead of following the Montana Code 61-5-168, as the Montana Legislature had directed. Now our Montana Driver’s License is Real ID compliant.

This next link is an interesting one! Why does it say that NH is committed to complying with 18 benchmarks?!?
http://cis.org/real-id-terrorist-abuse

Submitted full compliance certification packages to DHS1 Conn., Del., Md., S.D., Tenn.

Self-certified: Issuing materially compliant licenses (meeting the first 18 benchmarks) Ark., D.C., Iowa, Kan., Ky., Miss., N.J

Committed to meeting material compliance but need time Colo., Hawaii, Ill., Neb., Ohio, Puerto Rico, R.I., Texas, Va., W.Va., Wis., Wyo.

Committed to meeting 15 of 18 benchmarks Ariz., Calif., Ga., Minn, Mo., Nev., N.H., N.C., N.D., Pa., S.C., U.S. Virgin Islands

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/80969892.html

For the past couple of years now, we’ve talked about Real ID. The national identification card has gone through many transformations and deadlines. Here in Nevada, the card has another name and is now ready to be unveiled.

Beginning next week the Carson City DMV will begin issuing the "Advanced Secure Issuance" also known to many as the Real ID card.

http://www.worksite-compliance.com/articles-events.php?action=view&id=29

WHTI/REAL ID Update. On December 6, 2007, DHS and Arizona signed a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) to enhance the security of state driver's licenses, to offer a Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI)-compliant document to U.S. citizen residents, and to pledge future compliance with the requirements of the REAL ID Act.

The Arizona agreement is much like those established with Washington, Vermont, and New York earlier in 2007, DHS said. Arizona will develop a technologically enhanced driver's license

once DHS issues the REAL ID final rule, Arizona will offer a REAL ID-compliant document to those U.S. citizens who do not wish to obtain the enhanced driver’s license

http://www.wpaag.org/REAL%20ID%20-%20Snookered%20by%20Big%20Brother.htm

Arkansas has also been awarded a REAL ID grant in the amount of $892,887

That list of non-complying states is getting a lot shorter, isn't it?

[Keith and stuff]

Unfortunately, even though the Minnesota legislature passed a bill to prohibit the implementation of the REAL ID with overwhelming bipartisan support, Governor (I wanted to be VP?) Pawlenty vetoed it.

But in 2009, he signed another bill that was also supposed to stop REAL ID in Minnesota. I don't know the actual state of REAL ID implementation in MN right now.
https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/governor-pawlenty-and-minnesota-legislature-join-forces-protect-minnesotans-p


Committed to meeting 15 of 18 benchmarks
At the time the article was written, it claimed states like NH agreed to meet 15 of the 18 benchmarks. My understanding is that NH is meeting most of the benchmarks but not creating the database that other states are creating for the federal government, nor is it creating the enhanced DL.


A few states, including Washington, Oregon and Minnesota, have legal barriers to police accessing facial-recognition technology in driver’s-license registries. New Hampshire’s legislature passed a law prohibiting *motor vehicle officials from collecting any biometric data.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/state-photo-id-databases-become-troves-for-police/2013/06/16/6f014bd4-ced5-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html

REAL ID calls for the DMV scanning and storing copies of all of the documents needed to get a DL, such as a SS card. In NH, not only is your SS card and such not scanned like the Feds want, not even your SS number is stored in the DMV system, unless you want it to be stored.

Most states also have facial-recognition databases that use DMV photos. It's pretty sick stuff. Not only do cops run plates, names and driver's license numbers in many place when they stop someone, they also take a photo of you and run it in a facial-recognition database.

[invisible]

But in 2009, he signed another bill that was also supposed to stop REAL ID in Minnesota. I don't know the actual state of REAL ID implementation in MN right now.
https://www.aclu.org/technology-and-liberty/governor-pawlenty-and-minnesota-legislature-join-forces-protect-minnesotans-p

Right. They just call it "pass id" or an "enhanced driver's license", and then implement it anyways! AZ, WA, MT, and NV have done the same thing. Neat backdoor strategy, isn't it?

So far, in addition to NH and ME, ID is the only other state that does NOT seem to be complying. Still have to check AK, LA, VA, and SC, then see if I can find out anything additional on IL. Keith, what can you tell us about NH being "committed to complying with 15 benchmarks" (as per one of the links in my last post)?

Damn, I really hate to say it, but I'm starting to sound like zippy in this thread, aren't I?

[Keith and stuff]

Keith, what can you tell us about NH being "committed to complying with 15 benchmarks" (as per one of the links in my last post)?

See above. And for which states have facial-recognition databases, see his map. 37 states have already build databases but only 26 currently let the police use it for any reason whatsoever. NH has outlawed them, I'm not sure if the other states that don't have a database have outlawed them yet or not. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/drivers-license-photo-database-face-search/map.html?template=iframe


The Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office says its facial-recognition unit conducts 5,000 searches a month and has assisted in nearly 1,000 arrests since 2004.1,000 arrests in just 1 county in FL.

And you might consider this a separate issue from REAL ID but it relates to me. And, IMO, it's why issuing ID and DL's to illegals is becoming so popular with state governments now. The governments want to get all of the info on everyone to enter into the massive state databases. It's only a matter of time before the Feds have access to all of the state databases.

[Origanalist]

Right. They just call it "pass id" or an "enhanced driver's license", and then implement it anyways! AZ, WA, MT, and NV have done the same thing. Neat backdoor strategy, isn't it?

So far, in addition to NH and ME, ID is the only other state that does NOT seem to be complying. Still have to check AK, LA, VA, and SC, then see if I can find out anything additional on IL. Keith, what can you tell us about NH being "committed to complying with 15 benchmarks" (as per one of the links in my last post)?

Damn, I really hate to say it, but I'm starting to sound like zippy in this thread, aren't I?

Good to go pass here, I think. You need it to cross the 520 bridge into Seattle but not the I-90 bridge. Also to use the "Hot Lanes" in some areas.

[invisible]

Keith, but why would NH try to comply with 15 of 18 points (probably excluding the biometric crap, as you've noted), when they seem to have one of the strongest positions against complying? It doesn't make sense that they would pass about the strongest laws against it, and then attempt to comply with most of the requirements. Perhaps the link I found was inaccurate? After all, it seemed to be a pro-real id propaganda site.

Here's a few more states:

https://autos.aol.com/article/drivers-license-security-rules/

Some, like New York, Virginia, North Carolina and California, already have implemented many of the security measures envisioned in REAL ID.

http://www.cis.org/realid

These material compliance benchmarks indicate progress toward REAL ID goals and include such target goals as mandatory facial image capture, requiring applicants to sign applications under penalty of perjury, ensuring physical security of the ID cards, ensuring the security of “personally identifiable information, verification of Social Security numbers and lawful status with federal database queries, and conducting background checks on covered MVA employees, amongst others. States such as Alabama, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, Nevada, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Rhode Island, Texas, Virginia, and Wisconsin should be deemed in material compliance as soon as practicable, encouraging other states to follow suit.

Other states are going about compliance quietly and without political commentary, not expressly calling for REAL ID compliance. For example, Oregon signed an executive order in November 2007 requiring the state to abide by AAMVA standards in issuing driver’s licenses, which are actually more stringent than REAL ID

This map from 2009 has VA listed as complying.
http://fcw.com/articles/2009/07/13/feat-real-id-states-compliance-box.aspx

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/03/new-virginia-drivers-license-focuses-security

We have learned that gray-scale photos are better as far as security goes because it allows the person inspecting the card to focus on the permanent facial features such as the shape of the face, the shape of the lips

Some security details are known only to law enforcement officials.

Anticipated benefits of the new licenses are fraud reduction - in the past five years, 29 DMV employees have been arrested on such charges - and bringing Virginia closer to conformity with provisions of the federal Real ID Act

AK's non-compliance seems to be genuine as well. So now we're up to 4 states (NH, ME, ID, AK). Still have to check LA and SC, and see if I can find anything further on IL and OR. I'll probably knock off here for the night and continue this tomorrow. Anyone want to wrap this effort up for me?

[Keith and stuff]

Keith, but why would NH try to comply with 15 of 18 points (probably excluding the biometric crap, as you've noted), when they seem to have one of the strongest positions against complying? It doesn't make sense that they would pass about the strongest laws against it, and then attempt to comply with most of the requirements. Perhaps the link I found was inaccurate? After all, it seemed to be a pro-real id propaganda site.
Some of the reforms make sense and are good to implement. But the national database, storing an insane amount of money and cards with your biometric data are bad things. That's my guess as to what the NH legislators and governors are thinking. BTW, there is a work around the whole thing in NH, if you have never had a driver's license and there is an adult in the passenger seat in NH, you don't need a DL to drive, so long as the adult in the passenger seat has a DL. I guess you could call it a fail safe, though, not a very good 1.

The other issue is that all states met or were on the path to meeting a bunch of benchmarks before the REAL ID law even passed. And there are a total of 39 benchmarks, but most people are just talking about the first 18.

REAL ID standards were a lower, more generalized standard than the post-9/11 AAMVA standards. Thus even where states do not embrace REAL ID, if they are working on pilots and using AMMVA best practices, they could well now or in the future exceed REAL ID standards. That is the case already with 38 states conducting facial recognition, at least partially, in the area of identity verification.
http://www.cis.org/real-id-implementation-report

Several of the 9/11 hijacker IDs were government issued IDs from VA. Some from other areas. And the whole REAL ID scam isn't completely a scam IMO, just most of it. The official reason it was created was to have added protections to reduce the risk of terrorists being issued ID. BTW, yes, I know I sound like a statist here but I too worry about terrorism.

For example, on a similar issue, I found this. "Montana has a facial-recognition system to help prevent fraud in its driver’s-license registry, but officials are still debating whether to allow police any kind of access." So, at least right now, MT might not be trying to violate civil rights with it's facial-recognition system, though it's created the system that will allow it too.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/state-photo-id-databases-become-troves-for-police/2013/06/16/6f014bd4-ced5-11e2-8845-d970ccb04497_story_1.html

[jclay2]

So what are the tracking capabilities of these rfid licenses? Can you pick up the license any where kind of like a gps or is it more localized?

[Tod]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXYZttxunPw

[ObiRandKenobi]

vermont can take their maple ice cups and stick it.

[Tod]

It will be interesting to see the divergence (or not) between VT & NH over the next several years if the FSP makes serious inroads into the political/bureaucratic landscape. Two similarly sized states side-by-side with (hopefully) wildly diverging approaches. What a laboratory!

[invisible]

So what are the tracking capabilities of these rfid licenses? Can you pick up the license any where kind of like a gps or is it more localized?

A simple explanation is that these cards can be read remotely (and tracked, if you will) from a distance of perhaps 5-10'. A "reader" for the cards can be purchased by anyone off ebay for less than $300, and will pull the info from anything in range containing an RFID chip. This, of course, means that that info (such as all the biometric data on your drivers license, your socialist security number, credit card numbers, etc) can very easily be stolen by anyone. The RFID chip receives a signal from the reader, and uses some of that energy to send the data stored on the chip back to the reader. If you want to know more about this in detail, I would highly recommend the book Spychips.

[invisible]

Here's a couple more states:

http://thehayride.com/2012/11/sadow-like-it-or-not-louisianas-more-or-less-on-board-with-the-real-id-act/

And up until earlier this year, Louisiana was the state the farthest away from implementation of the 39 benchmarks laid down in the rule. But in the intervening several months, things seemed to have happened suddenly and now, according to a media report, the state will be in compliance of 37 of them by the target date.

Even as the state has made changes to its system that reflect everything in the Act, it can argue that all of these would have been done as a result of its own internal processes to improve matters, saying that these things happened “coincidentally” to the Act’s requirements and deadline

http://www.katc.com/news/la-revamping-drivers-license-to-meet-real-id-act-requirements/

Louisiana drivers licenses and state issued ID cards are being revamped to comply with the REAL ID Act. Office of Motor Vehicles Commissioner Stephen Campbell says the state is working with contractors on security enhancements, which are scheduled to be completed in September or October.

This next link has a lot of interesting stuff from one of the activists (Kaye Beach) here in OK, this is part of her article on real id in LA.
https://axiomamuse.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/louisiana-senators-want-to-cave-to-real-id-push-back-la/

Diane Long for the Louisiana Power Coalition was accurate in het statement that the photos currently collected for driver’s licenses in LA is indeed, a biometric.

As explained by Mark Lerner, co founder of the Constitutional Alliance and the leading expert on the Real ID Act and biometrics in the US;

It is not widely known that all states in the United States are “capturing” a digital facial image/photograph that is facial recognition compatible. Real ID compliant and non-Real ID compliant states use the same standard for the digital facial image/photograph capture. Every state works with AAMVA (American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators). AAMVA has adopted the ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) standard that is required by the Real ID Act (page 68, footnote 17, Notice of Proposed Rule Making, Real ID Act 2005). In addition, the vendors who have been awarded state driver’s license contracts have adopted the same standard as called for in the Real ID Act 2005.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20070308/NEWS/703080379?tc=ar

Under a proposal approved last week by a Senate panel, South Carolina would not implement the Real ID requirements until the federal government provides the money and ensures residents' privacy rights.

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20101021/PC1602/310219904

The state's license upgrade was funded with a portion of the $2.1 million the DMV received in Department of Homeland Security grants. The licenses do not, however, comply with the federally mandated REAL ID program, in which South Carolina and about a dozen other states have refused to participate.

http://sc.statehouseblogs.com/2009/07/21/press-release-gov-sanford-raises-concerns-over-federal-real-id-pass-id-law/

Gov. Sanford argued that the South Carolina DMV had already met 90 percent of REAL ID’s benchmarks

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/All-States-Comply-With-Real-ID-Intentionally-or-Not/1/

Of the six states that enacted laws against Real ID compliance, Maine, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Montana sent letters to DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff explaining that they had already complied with many of the security aspects of Real ID.

So SC seems iffy. There isn't really anything I've been able to find about what happened there post-Sanford. Another state that has quietly "complied without complying"? Only thing left now is to see if I can find anything additional on OR and IL.

[invisible]

And here's the last of it:

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070612/NEWS/706120308

To safeguard against identity theft, Oregon Driver and Motor Vehicle Services will soon use facial recognition software to identify people who attempt to use forged documents to obtain a driver's license.

http://causaoregon.org/sb833/

Because the Oregon Driver’s Card is issued to address road safety Oregon, it complies with REAL ID.

So OR seems to have backdoored it as well. IL seems to be the only additional state that is positively not complying. That brings the list of non-complying states to: NH, ME, ID, AK, IL, and possibly SC. Five or six states is what we're down to, now. Are any of our resident photoshoppers able to make a new, accurate map to reflect the current status? If so, perhaps it might be a good idea to have it made into a sticky in some little corner of RPF. As far as I know, this thread is now the only place that current information has been collected in one place.

In the battle against real id, OK is currently the state to watch. What happens with the Kaye Beach lawsuit will be key to overturning this crap in every state. Even if OK continues to refuse Kaye her day in court, it looks like real id will only last in OK as long as fallin is in office. I don't see the prospects for overturning already existing real id in any given state as being anywhere near as good as they are in OK. There doesn't seem to be as strong of an effort to repeal or overturn it anywhere else, for states that already have it in place.

[Keith and stuff]

Nice research. Thanks for doing this.

Here is what I found on IL.
Wikipedia claims, "Some states whose legislatures passed non-binding resolutions opposing REAL ID are nonetheless working to comply with the law, such as Illinois." I clicked on the Wikipedia link and got this article.


State lawmakers approved a non-binding rebuke of Real ID this year, over privacy concerns. But state officials plan to implement it anyway.
http://www.pantagraph.com/news/new-illinois-licenses-needed-by-for-airport-security/article_941ae795-8fa0-5fea-8d84-642d99cbaaac.html

In 2011, a bill to bring IL up to REAL ID standards failed to pass.

On Feb 16, 2011, a vote on proposed bill HB0099 by the Illinois legislature to create the REAL ID Compliant Identification Cards Act resulted in Motion Do Not Pass State Government Administration Committee; 014-000-000. The proposed legislation sponsored by Rep. Lou Lang, Rep.William stated in part that if citizens chose not to accept the REAL ID
http://www.examiner.com/article/america-a-gold-star-on-your-driver-s-license-is-not-an-upgrade

Here is some more recent news from IL, in 2013. And the governor did end up signing the bill.

Coalition for a Secure Driver's License (CSDL) President Brian Zimmer said, "We concur with the Illinois Association of Chiefs of Police. Given Illinois history and the state's stiff gun laws, this law should have included safeguards. For example, applicants for these lower tier licenses should provide fingerprints that can be compared by state police against prison and jail records. Illinois needs to guard against foreign criminals getting driver's licenses just so they can buy guns."

SB 957 is very similar to a Utah law, which provides a driving privilege card to people who similarly assert they cannot provide proof of lawful presence. However, Illinois's "temporary visitor's driver's license" application process will lack very important requirements contained in that Utah law.

There are several important differences between the Utah and Illinois driver's license laws. Utah requires each applicant for its driving privilege card to present a passport or a foreign birth certificate. Illinois's new law allows an applicant to present either a passport OR a consular ID card. This is a vital distinction. Passports are subject to internationally set standards for proof of identification under United Nation's agreements. Consular IDs have no standards for issuance or for card security. Consular ID cards are not reliable proofs of identity or nationality, as the Federal Bureau of Investigation has testified before Congress.

Utah's rules for proof of lawful presence match up well with federal REAL ID rules for driver's license issuance, while those of Illinois do not. Utah complies with many of the REAL ID rules. Illinois, by contrast, does not come close to meeting the REAL ID security standards for driver's license issuance.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/illinois-will-accept-consular-ids-for-drivers-licenses-despite-concerns-by-chiefs-of-police-186376901.html

So even if the regular DL for IL is now almost or soon to be REAL ID compliant (and I'm not saying it is), the special DL for illegals isn't. It might become at a later date, but as for now, it isn't.

And this is particularly interesting considering Freedom in the 50 States rated IL the state with the least personal freedom in 2007, 2009 and 2011. I'm not saying the rating is 100% accurate, but this is interesting. http://freedominthe50states.org/personal/illinois

[invisible]

Yes, a lot of the info available is confusing and / or conflicting. Plus, many of the states claim not to be complying, but are doing it anyways, many times in defiance of their own laws. I did a lot of this research for the first time about a year ago, and was shocked not only that so many "non-complying" states have bent over after all (usually in some backdoor and underhanded manner), but that this information was not easily compiled and readily available - the first things you find are to the effect of "and about half of the states refused to comply and have passed laws or resolutions against real id". Then you dig a little deeper and find out that the situation is actually much worse than it appears to be, unfortunately. Again, keep your eye on what happens here in OK. If it gets overturned in OK through the Kaye Beach lawsuit rather than by fallin getting tossed out in the next election, then it can and will easily be defeated the same way in the rest of the bent-over states.

edit: It's also very interesting that there seems to be no post-Sanford news out of SC.

[invisible]

Additional info:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-02-10/business/9802100092_1_viisage-technology-driver-s-license-system-phony-licenses

February 10, 1998 The Illinois secretary of state's office said it's talking with Viisage Technology Inc. to acquire facial-recognition technology that would help cut down on fraud in issuing driver's licenses.

Additionally, the Illinois State Police said it has entered into a cooperative agreement with the secretary of state that would allow it to tap into the new digital driver's license system.

http://secureidnews.com/news-item/facial-recognition-biometrics-slowing-drivers-license-fraud/

26 June, 2008 Illinois DMVs are using facial recognition biometrics with their database of driver’s license pictures to help stop driver’s license fraud, according to a Government Technology article. While Illinois was the first to implement this program in 1997, since then roughly 20 other states have created similar programs.

The project was put into action through the Illinois Driver Services and Secretary of State Police Departments with technology from Viisage, now L-1 Identity Systems. The company assisted with the building of a database containing biometric facial information and then applied its FaceExplorer application to compare all information to look for duplicates under different names.

So add IL to the list of states that has bent over and complied after all, while claiming not to.
The list of non-complying states is now down to NH, ME, ID, AK, and possibly SC.

[Keith and stuff]

So add IL to the list of states that has bent over and complied after all, while claiming not to.
The list of non-complying states is now down to NH, ME, ID, AK, and possibly SC.
But a state can do a searchable facial-recognition photo database and still be against parts of REAL ID. Only NH has outlawed that technology, anyway. All all 50 states have non-facial-recognition searchable photo databases. http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-16/business/40012903_1_databases-facial-recognition-systems-searches/2 And some states that are for REAL ID don't have use of a searchable facial-recognition photo database yet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/business/drivers-license-photo-database-face-search/map.html?template=iframe
SC has 1 and allows police to use it.
ID has 1 but generally doesn't allow police to use it.
CA, MI, OH, MS... are for REAL ID but don't have searchable facial-recognition photo databases yet.

I do love the amount of effort you are putting into this, though!

[bolil]

HA! Illinois. I feel like this is a victory for my state. Even if its the country folk keeping it from happening. I know chicagoans wouldn't give a fuck.

[invisible]

Ok, so according to Keith's link, it's now down to only THREE states: NH, ME, and AK.
Biometrics IS "real id". That means biometrics in ANY way, shape, or form. That means no matter what a particular state may be calling it, or what sort of laws or resolutions they may have passed. In every state but three, "non-compliance" is a SHAM. And even among those three remaining states, it still may be discovered that biometrics are being used in at least one more of them.

Keith, how recent is your link? Do you know? I didn't see a date on it.
bolil, IL is using biometrics, there is no cause for celebration in the case of IL.

And even in ME, what do we have here? I haven't found anything yet that comes out and states it plainly, but these two links imply that biometrics ARE being used in ME:

http://bangordailynews.com/2009/02/02/politics/opponents-target-parts-of-driverrsquos-license-law/

Feb. 02, 2009 Damon, who as co-chairman of the Legislature’s Transportation Committee considered the Maine law last year, wants to remove the requirement that individuals prove they are in the country legally.

He would also prohibit the state from using biometric technology, such as fingerprint scanners and retinal pattern recognition devices, to identify license applicants. He also wants to prohibit Maine from pooling its license data in a federal database.

http://fortfairfieldjournal.com/ffj_01310709a.htm

January 31, 2007 Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap recently issued a Valid Without Photo Driver’s License to David Deschesne.

The without photo Driver’s license was obtained as a result of Deschesne’s plea for religious exemption based upon his belief that the digital biometric face scanned photos contained on them are a foundational building block of the Biblical ‘Mark of the Beast.”

So it's possible that ME is also bending over and complying, while claiming not to. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any more recent info, or anything else that directly references use of biometrics in ME.

[Christian Liberty]

TSA.

I hate the TSA...

I don't even like flying anymore... I can live with metal detectors (Note that saying I can live with it in no way means the Federal Government should be using them) but full body scanners... ugh...

[Tywysog Cymru]

I hate the TSA...

I don't even like flying anymore... I can live with metal detectors (Note that saying I can live with it in no way means the Federal Government should be using them) but full body scanners... ugh...

I could tell many frustrating stories about Airport Security in the years following 9/11 (like when I was 6 years old flying to Britain, they were convinced my toy dinosaur contained a bomb). I think its a bad sign that when I flew to Seattle last year I didn't really take much notice of what was going on with security. I wish they would just let security be left to the private sector.

[Christian Liberty]

I could tell many frustrating stories about Airport Security in the years following 9/11 (like when I was 6 years old flying to Britain, they were convinced my toy dinosaur contained a bomb). I think its a bad sign that when I flew to Seattle last year I didn't really take much notice of what was going on with security. I wish they would just let security be left to the private sector.

I agree. Even if the airports were still government owned (Which ultimately they shouldn't be) letting each airport company hire its own security and choose its own security procedures would help alot. Some people would probably still prefer heavy-handed security, and that's their choices. Others would prefer lesser security, maybe even none, and the market would provide what they wanted.

[69360]

Hell no. Here in Maine we have bi-partisan and independent strong opposition to real ID. It will never pass the statehouse. It was voted down something like 175 to 5. People are very big on privacy in Maine.

[invisible]

Hell no. Here in Maine we have bi-partisan and independent strong opposition to real ID. It will never pass the statehouse. It was voted down something like 175 to 5. People are very big on privacy in Maine.

Can you confirm that biometrics are not being used anyways, in spite of this?

Information is often conflicting as to what's really going on in the various states, and the best info seems to come directly from those of us "on the ground" who are paying close attention to what goes on in their state (sometime I'll have to tell the backstory of how it went down in PA). The most recent link that Keith posted above says that ME is not using facial recognition biometrics. However, I did see (and post links to) a couple things I found that implied that ME is or was using facial recognition biometrics around 2007-8. I also found reference to some sort of legislation at the state level (HB 803, IIRC) that was supposed to repeal something related to "real id" in ME, and that it had apparently passed, but couldn't find anything about what exactly that legislation was supposed to do. If you could give us an accurate update on ME's status, that would be fantastic!