Big game backlash: Protests against celebrity hunter Melissa Bachman mount [Archive]

aGameOfThrones

11-19-2013, 07:02 PM

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/QeWxGzjZIegmBmtc3GamMw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQ1MztweW9mZj0wO3E9Nz U7dz03MjA-/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-11-19/2794e434-54d5-44e0-9022-a352205e4d6c_603086_10100725167740391_569104209_n. jpg

More than 250,000 people have signed an online petition demanding that South Africa deny future entry to Melissa Bachman, a big game hunter whose smiling photo with a dead lion has sparked considerable outrage.

The petition, launched by Cape Town resident Elan Burman, includes a letter addressed to Director General Mkuseli Apleni and other South African officials.

"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on," Burman wrote. "Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As taxpayers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."

According to Grind TV, Bachman killed the lion during a guided hunt facilitated by the Maroi Conservancy. And according to Maroi, the hunt was perfectly legal.

“We do ethical hunting and all meat from animals hunted is distributed to the local community," a post on Maroi's Facebook page reads. "Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods, combating poaching, which is excessive in this area due to close proximity to Zimbabwe, and running a sustainable conservancy."

"We are not apologizing for facilitating the [Bachman] hunt," the conservancy added. "If you are not a game farmer and struggling with dying starving animals, poaching, and no fences in place to protect your animals and crop, please refrain from making negative derogatory comments."

http://news.yahoo.com/melissa-bachman-big-game-protest-161458798.html

Deborah K

11-19-2013, 07:04 PM

Oh, okay. "Perfectly legal." So that makes it perfectly acceptable? Take your trophy and shove it, lady.

thoughtomator

11-19-2013, 07:06 PM

It's the smiling that's the fuse on this. It's fucked up to be happy about killing something, especially such a beautiful and majestic creature.

Austrian Econ Disciple

11-19-2013, 07:16 PM

This is not hunting. If you're guided by folks and instructed on course of actions, and there is no hunting involved it's not hunting. You simply shot an animal who never knew what was coming. The smile is also a bit...uncouth. At least the conservancy got paid so it goes to further the ability to keep these animals from going extinct. I still believe that if one was truly concerned for the species you would legalize farming and ownership. I think folks like Tulluck and Buchanan would agree. If you're so outraged and want to annihilate the species, but feel-good about your 'intentions' then by all means, go the route of outlawing such practices as these people would have this conservancy do, making the likelihood of extinction that much higher.

enhanced_deficit

11-19-2013, 07:23 PM

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/QeWxGzjZIegmBmtc3GamMw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTQ1MztweW9mZj0wO3E9Nz U7dz03MjA-/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-11-19/2794e434-54d5-44e0-9022-a352205e4d6c_603086_10100725167740391_569104209_n. jpg

More than 250,000 people have signed an online petition demanding that South Africa deny future entry to Melissa Bachman, a big game hunter whose smiling photo with a dead lion has sparked considerable outrage.

The petition, launched by Cape Town resident Elan Burman, includes a letter addressed to Director General Mkuseli Apleni and other South African officials.

"She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation this country prides itself on," Burman wrote. "Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As taxpayers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."

According to Grind TV, Bachman killed the lion during a guided hunt facilitated by the Maroi Conservancy. And according to Maroi, the hunt was perfectly legal.

http://news.yahoo.com/melissa-bachman-big-game-protest-161458798.html

My apologies for turning it more grimly but does anyone remember number of Americans who signed up petition after following trophy photos were published?

Caution: very graphic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Andrew_Holmes_pulling_a_dead_Afghan_boy_by_the_hai r_in_2010.jpg

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/18/how-war-can-make-dehumanizing-and-horrific-events-seem-normal/jcr:content/image.img.640.512.jpg/1380037711667.cached.jpg

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-198947-videoposter16-abcd.jpg

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:25 PM

Some people seriously have nothing better to do in their lives than to complain.

That hunt must have been amazing, I'd love to get that opportunity one day.

Deborah K

11-19-2013, 07:33 PM

Some people seriously have nothing better to do in their lives than to complain.

That hunt must have been amazing, I'd love to get that opportunity one day.

This isn't hunting, this is tantamount to shooting fish in a barrel.

Ender

11-19-2013, 07:40 PM

Well, what goes around, comes around; Law of Karma and all that.

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:41 PM

This isn't hunting, this is tantamount to shooting fish in a barrel.

How is this not hunting? And who cares if she personally didn't do all the hard work, same end result: dead animal, awesome trophy.

shane77m

11-19-2013, 07:43 PM

Some people seriously have nothing better to do in their lives than to complain.

That hunt must have been amazing, I'd love to get that opportunity one day.

Looks fun. The pelt would make an awesome rug.

I guess I will just have to hunt around here though. The cost is prohibitive to me. Plus I have no desire to travel abroad.

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:44 PM

Plus I have no desire to travel abroad.

Of course not, you've got all the female cousins and Walmarts you could ever dream of right there in Alabama. :p

Austrian Econ Disciple

11-19-2013, 07:45 PM

How is this not hunting? And who cares if she personally didn't do all the hard work, same end result: dead animal, awesome trophy.

The hunt is the journey, not the destination. It's the same reason why hunter's use black powder muskets instead of modern rifles. It's as Deborah said, shooting fish in a barrel, perhaps not even that skill intensive. More like drop some poison in the barrel then collect the dead remains a bit later. What I'm trying to say is simply killing an animal does not a hunt(er) make. If that was the case then your local butcher is a fine hunter of cattle!

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:46 PM

The hunt is the journey, not the destination. It's the same reason why hunter's use black powder muskets instead of modern rifles. It's as Deborah said, shooting fish in a barrel, perhaps not even that skill intensive. More like drop some poison in the barrel then collect the dead remains a bit later. What I'm trying to say is simply killing an animal does not a hunt(er) make. If that was the case then your local butcher is a fine hunter of cattle!

Blah blah blah. You're probably just jealous you can't afford an amazing trip like this.

I say good on her for enjoying herself!

shane77m

11-19-2013, 07:46 PM

Of course not, you've got all the female cousins and Walmarts you could ever dream of right there in Alabama. :p

http://youtu.be/oShTJ90fC34

Austrian Econ Disciple

11-19-2013, 07:49 PM

Blah blah blah. You're probably just jealous you can't afford an amazing trip like this.

I say good on her for enjoying herself!

I live in Hawai'i...why would I want to go to South Africa? Anyways, it appears I've all ready won the conversation, so I'll just take my exit now.

phill4paul

11-19-2013, 07:49 PM

How is this not hunting? And who cares if she personally didn't do all the hard work, same end result: dead animal, awesome trophy.

Serious? That's fucked up. Is using an aerial platform from thousands of miles away a "good hunt?" I suppose some drone hunters think they are worthy of trophies. Dead animals and all that braggadocio and such.

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:51 PM

Serious? That's fucked up. Is using an aerial platform from thousands of miles away a "good hunt?" I suppose some drone hunters think they are worthy of trophies. Dead animals and all that braggadocio and such.

Are you seriously comparing hunting an animal to killing people using drones?

NIU Students for Liberty

11-19-2013, 07:52 PM

She said she's against poaching but what is the difference between her "guided" hunts and poaching?

specsaregood

11-19-2013, 07:53 PM

The hunt is the journey, not the destination. It's the same reason why hunter's use black powder muskets instead of modern rifles.

Really? I thought the reason they did that was because muzzle loader season opens 1-2weeks earlier in the year.

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 07:54 PM

She said she's against poaching but what is the difference between her "guided" hunts and poaching?

Because these guided hunts are done in a sustainable way and nothing from the animal is wasted. Also, all proceeds from the hunt go towards maintaining the wilderness where they organised these types of hunts, they build fences, have patrols against poachers, etc.

From the article:

"Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods, combating poaching, which is excessive in this area due to close proximity to Zimbabwe, and running a sustainable conservancy."

specsaregood

11-19-2013, 07:54 PM

It's the smiling that's the fuse on this. It's fucked up to be happy about killing something, especially such a beautiful and majestic creature.

A bloodthirsty killing machine creature. That lion would be smiling just as wide if the roles were reversed.

shane77m

11-19-2013, 07:59 PM

Really? I thought the reason they did that was because muzzle loader season opens 1-2weeks earlier in the year.

That's why the use them around here. I think the only hunter I have ever heard talk about some mystical experience while hunting is Ted Nugent.

phill4paul

11-19-2013, 08:00 PM

Ender

11-19-2013, 08:19 PM

Are you seriously comparing hunting an animal to killing people using drones?

Yes.

As phill4paul stated:

Even in death that Lion is a hell of a lot more beautiful than that cunt. What drives ignorant assholes to hunt that which they
1) Do not eat.
2) Do not have a need to protect there food source from.
3) Does not threaten themselves or their progeny.

The only reason to kill one of God's creatures is for food or safety; never for pride or tax gains.

goliberty78

11-19-2013, 11:18 PM

Even in death that Lion is a hell of a lot more beautiful than that cunt. What drives ignorant assholes to hunt that which they
1) Do not eat.
2) Do not have a need to protect there food source from.
3) Does not threaten themselves or their progeny.

Did you not read the post? They do eat the meat, and the kill was part of area conservation, which most likely includes protecting food sources/themselves/their progeny. If she was simply killing the animal and leaving it to rot, then yea that would be crappy. And all you complaining that she has a smile...what's she supposed to do? Frown? She just helped with area conservation and accomplished something many people only dream of. As for it being a guided hunt, again...what's the supposed to do? Go tromping around areas she knows nothing about? The guides are there for more reasons than just getting her a shot opportunity. What drives ignorant assholes to complain about something they obviously know nothing about?

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 11:19 PM

Did you not read the post? They do eat the meat, and the kill was part of area conservation, which most likely includes protecting food sources/themselves/their progeny. If she was simply killing the animal and leaving it to rot, then yea that would be crappy. And all you complaining that she has a smile...what's she supposed to do? Frown? She just helped with area conservation and accomplished something many people only dream of. As for it being a guided hunt, again...what's the supposed to do? Go tromping around areas she knows nothing about? The guides are there for more reasons than just getting her a shot opportunity. What drives ignorant assholes to complain about something they obviously know nothing about?

+rep

James Madison

11-19-2013, 11:28 PM

Should have just shot a cow. Then it'd be ok.

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 11:32 PM

Should have just shot a cow. Then it'd be ok.

Then you'd have millions of angry Hindus signing a petition.

James Madison

11-19-2013, 11:36 PM

Then you'd have millions of angry Hindus signing a petition.

Good call.

What about chickens? Those are ok to kill, right?

eduardo89

11-19-2013, 11:42 PM

Good call.

What about chickens? Those are ok to kill, right?

http://www.umnet.com/pic/diy/screensaver/3%5CPeter-Vs-Chicken--36986.gif

jonhowe

11-19-2013, 11:51 PM

A bloodthirsty killing machine creature. That lion would be smiling just as wide if the roles were reversed.

Seriously? Animals hunt to eat. The idea of killing for fun is disgusting. Hunting is disgusting.

jonhowe

11-19-2013, 11:54 PM

Origanalist

11-19-2013, 11:58 PM

You want to see senseless slaughter and waste?

http://fatcats.ru/uploads/posts/2010-04/1270568662_7377f4d1d8add3298c08c9d8cff15046-orig.jpeg
A contemporary postcard shows what remained after a herd of buffalo was slaughtered; buffalo skulls piled on grassland, somewhere in Michigan.

http://wineandbowties.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1bull01.jpg
Slaughtered mercilessly from the 1870s on, the buffalo population plummeted. By 1893 less than 400 buffalo remained throughout the Great Plains. Crippled by the scarcity of bison, the culture of the Plains Indians and other neighboring tribes began to unravel.

A primary source of food protein, nomadic housing and clothing in the form of warm blankets and countless ceremonial objects, the death of the buffalo eroded many Native American communities from within. The American government uprooted tribes, forcing them to relocate to designated reservations. The American settlers devastated the physical and spiritual livelihood of the Native American tribes. The results were tragic. “When the buffalo went away, the hearts of my people fell to the ground,” records Crow Chief Plenty [Coups] (otherwise known as Aleek-chea-ahoosh) in his personal biography. “After this, nothing happened. There was little singing anywhere.”
http://search.babylon.com/imageres.php?iu=http://wineandbowties.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1bull01.jpg&ir=http://wineandbowties.com/ideas/nature/the-death-of-the-bison/&ig=http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsbdg6qr-Sk_iqnEcbKeIS-3S7XZjZQLf4sBsXtnGC3dJIkDrZ-e7CCDLC&h=556&w=833&q=slaughtered+buffalo&babsrc=SP_ss_din2g

This woman, while distasteful to some, is actually helping conservation.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 12:02 AM

They JUSTIFY their hunt by using it to 'fund conservation'. They are not hunting these animals IN ORDER to conserve (or eat) them. If they want to avoid losing livestock, they should build fences or leave (and that's what this is really about.

Sick.

“We do ethical hunting and all meat from animals hunted is distributed to the local community," a post on Maroi's Facebook page reads. "Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods, combating poaching, which is excessive in this area due to close proximity to Zimbabwe, and running a sustainable conservancy."

Have you really no idea how hunting and hunters help with conservation?

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 12:03 AM

This woman, while distasteful to some, is actually helping conservation.

In a true free market this is how you keep animals from extinction and preserve wilderness. Make it profitable to keep them alive and make it profitable to conserve their habitat.

goliberty78

11-20-2013, 12:06 AM

They JUSTIFY their hunt by using it to 'fund conservation'. They are not hunting these animals IN ORDER to conserve (or eat) them. If they want to avoid losing livestock, they should build fences or leave (and that's what this is really about.

Sick.

Can you provide some proof that they are lying? That they don't actually provide food for the locals? That they don't actually use the funds to accomplish conservation tasks such as rebuilding the ruined fences as they stated in the article? Or are you just making assumptions because you don't like hunting?

Ender

11-20-2013, 12:07 AM

Can you provide some proof that they are lying? That they don't actually provide food for the locals? That they don't actually use the funds to accomplish conservation tasks such as rebuilding the ruined fences as they stated in the article? Or are you just making assumptions because you don't like hunting?

Ummm...these are politicians saying this right? Only US politicians lie?

goliberty78

11-20-2013, 12:08 AM

goliberty78

11-20-2013, 12:11 AM

Ummm...these are politicians saying this right? Only US politicians lie?

He accused them of not doing what they said they're doing...without any proof to back it up.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 12:11 AM

Ummm...these are politicians saying this right? Only US politicians lie?

I don't think so;

Maroi Conservancy is getting a lot of hate mail from all around the world regarding the Melissa Bachman lion hunt. If I can clarify a couple of facts:

Maroi Conservancy is based in the Limpopo Province, 30 km from Musina, right next to the Limpopo Border. We are operating on 8500 hectares. All the game on the conservancy is free roaming and occur here naturally.

Our motto is "conservation through sustainable hunting".

We do ethical hunting and all meat from animals hunted is distrubuted to the local community. Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods; combating poaching which is excessive in this area due to close proximaty to ZImbabwe and running a sustainable conservancy. We have lost 2 eland, 4 giraffes and numerous other animals in the past 2 months that were killed by spears and dogs. We control our game numbers to prevent starvation of animals.

We have hunters from all over the world and all game hunting is done ethically on Maroi as per guidelines from Nature Conservation.

We had Melissa Bachman hunting plains game at Maroi in the past month. She was assisted by our PH Julious Heyneke. On her wish list was a lion. There are no lions on Maroi as they do not occur here naturallly. We contacted a outfitter in the North West Province and we faciltated the hunt for Melissa. We paid over the monies for the hunt to them and Melissa was tranported to Zeerust. We did not benefit financially by this hunt.

All documentation were in place for this hunt eg permits etc as required by Nature Conservation. The lion was not drugged or enclosed in a camp. It was free roaming on more than 2000 hectares. Melissa is a professional hunter and in no way is she involved in dubious practices.

We are not apologising for facilitating the hunt. As for all the negative commentary towards us, please consider how much you have contributed to conservation in the past 5 years. If you are not a game farmer and struggling with dying starving animals, poaching and no fences in place to protect your animals and crop, please refrain from making negative degoratory comments. It is so easy to judge if you are staying in cities and towns, buying your meat at 'woolies' and going to game reserves maybe once a year.

It is a fact, that due to the hunting industry and money generated out of this industry, there are more animals in South Africa than 100 years ago.

Any journalists are welcome to contact us to clarify facts.
https://www.facebook.com/maroi.conservancy/posts/550430031706577

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 12:16 AM

Ummm...these are politicians saying this right? Only US politicians lie?

What politicians are saying what?

Pericles

11-20-2013, 12:18 AM

A bloodthirsty killing machine creature. That lion would be smiling just as wide if the roles were reversed.

Yep - that lion is not a pet. Life looks different when kitty could eat you.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 12:30 AM

Seriously? Animals hunt to eat. The idea of killing for fun is disgusting. Hunting is disgusting.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?433473-The-Pussification-of-the-Western-Male

fr33

11-20-2013, 12:47 AM

My apologies for turning it more grimly but does anyone remember number of Americans who signed up petition after following trophy photos were published?

Caution: very graphic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Andrew_Holmes_pulling_a_dead_Afghan_boy_by_the_hai r_in_2010.jpg

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/18/how-war-can-make-dehumanizing-and-horrific-events-seem-normal/jcr:content/image.img.640.512.jpg/1380037711667.cached.jpg

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-198947-videoposter16-abcd.jpg

I'm inclined to support kills where the hunter eats the harvest but unfortunately I'm not sure those psychos in the pictures you posted wouldn't eat the kills if allowed to.

Ender

11-20-2013, 12:51 AM

I don't think so;

Maroi Conservancy is getting a lot of hate mail from all around the world regarding the Melissa Bachman lion hunt. If I can clarify a couple of facts:

Maroi Conservancy is based in the Limpopo Province, 30 km from Musina, right next to the Limpopo Border. We are operating on 8500 hectares. All the game on the conservancy is free roaming and occur here naturally.

Our motto is "conservation through sustainable hunting".

We do ethical hunting and all meat from animals hunted is distrubuted to the local community. Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods; combating poaching which is excessive in this area due to close proximaty to ZImbabwe and running a sustainable conservancy. We have lost 2 eland, 4 giraffes and numerous other animals in the past 2 months that were killed by spears and dogs. We control our game numbers to prevent starvation of animals.

We have hunters from all over the world and all game hunting is done ethically on Maroi as per guidelines from Nature Conservation.

We had Melissa Bachman hunting plains game at Maroi in the past month. She was assisted by our PH Julious Heyneke. On her wish list was a lion. There are no lions on Maroi as they do not occur here naturallly. We contacted a outfitter in the North West Province and we faciltated the hunt for Melissa. We paid over the monies for the hunt to them and Melissa was tranported to Zeerust. We did not benefit financially by this hunt.

All documentation were in place for this hunt eg permits etc as required by Nature Conservation. The lion was not drugged or enclosed in a camp. It was free roaming on more than 2000 hectares. Melissa is a professional hunter and in no way is she involved in dubious practices.

We are not apologising for facilitating the hunt. As for all the negative commentary towards us, please consider how much you have contributed to conservation in the past 5 years. If you are not a game farmer and struggling with dying starving animals, poaching and no fences in place to protect your animals and crop, please refrain from making negative degoratory comments. It is so easy to judge if you are staying in cities and towns, buying your meat at 'woolies' and going to game reserves maybe once a year.

It is a fact, that due to the hunting industry and money generated out of this industry, there are more animals in South Africa than 100 years ago.

Any journalists are welcome to contact us to clarify facts.
https://www.facebook.com/maroi.conservancy/posts/550430031706577

Maybe not politicians per se but their major funding is most likely government.

Pretty dicey territory- the lion is on the list of vulnerable animals. The lion population is guesstimated at around 80 Million right now- down from 200 million a few years ago. We just killed the last of the black rhinos- guess humans never learn.

According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."

That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts.

"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."

From:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/us-tv-presenter-melissa-bachman-blasted-over-smiling-photo-with-lion-she-stalked-and-killed-8944363.html

The picture (dead lion) was also added to Facebook as part of an album called “Africa 2013”, which included images of her next to a dead zebra and a variety of shot antelope, as well as the lion, following a trip to the Maroi Conservancy hunting park.

Now South Africans have started a petition to have Ms Bachman banned from the country, which presently has over 12,000 signatures.

The petition asks supporters to sign a letter directed at the South African government that reads: “She is an absolute contradiction to the culture of conservation, this country prides itself on. Her latest Facebook post features her with a lion she has just executed and murdered in our country.

“As tax payers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources.”

Ender

11-20-2013, 12:52 AM

Yep - that lion is not a pet. Life looks different when kitty could eat you.

Yea- this Bachman lady must have been terrified at the zebra she killed, not to mention the elk.

Pericles

11-20-2013, 12:54 AM

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 01:01 AM

I will bold a different part;

According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."

That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts.

"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."

And I am by no means against refining the process if it needs it.

Ender

11-20-2013, 01:08 AM

Any wagers that those terribly offended by the idea of hunting a lion, would have any hesitation about doing the following to those who oppose their policies?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7326/9770407465_9f9eb4e2b6_z.jpg

Let's get something straight.

If something's is attacking me or others, I have no problem killing it. If my family and loved ones are starving, I have no problem killing something for meat.

Legolas is my avatar for a reason- I am good with a bow and can take care of myself.

I am opposed to the needless killing of wildlife. I do have a problem with people who kill for no reason, other than their own glorification and especially when it is a species that is endangered or vulnerable.

Being snide and full of yourself certainly does you no justice.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:10 AM

Maybe not politicians per se but their major funding is most likely government.

Source for that? Or just an unsubstantiated claim?

Pretty dicey territory- the lion is on the list of vulnerable animals. The lion population is guesstimated at around 80 Million right now- down from 200 million a few years ago. We just killed the last of the black rhinos- guess humans never learn.

Those numbers don't sound right...

There are an estimated 29,400 – 47,400 according to IUCN Red List of Threatened Species
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/15951/0

This is are some good articles you should read:
Hunting as a conservation tool (http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/world/hunting.html#cr)
Hunting Lions: Unpalatable but Necessary for Conservation (http://www.panthera.org/node/1253)
Saving Lions by Killing Them (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/opinion/saving-lions-by-killing-them.html?_r=0)

James Madison

11-20-2013, 01:15 AM

^Hope you don't spray weeds in the driveway.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 01:18 AM

Source for that? Or just an unsubstantiated claim?

Those numbers don't sound right...

There are an estimated 29,400 – 47,400 according to IUCN Red List of Threatened Species
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/15951/0

This is are some good articles you should read:
Hunting as a conservation tool (http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/world/hunting.html#cr)
Hunting Lions: Unpalatable but Necessary for Conservation (http://www.panthera.org/node/1253)
Saving Lions by Killing Them (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/opinion/saving-lions-by-killing-them.html?_r=0)

That second article is what this quote was culled from.

According to Dr. Luke Hunter, the executive vice president of large cat conservation group Panthera, killing a prime male lion such as this one "disrupts the species’ complicated social structure. Prime male lions -- the most sought after trophies -- guard their females from pride takeovers by strange males. Takeovers are catastrophic to lionesses because victorious incoming males kill any cubs belonging to the previous pride males."

That means the death of a prime male, such as the one killed by Bachman, can lead to the death of an entire generation of cubs within a pride. With proper regulation, however, Hunter argues the practice of big game hunting, which costs hunters up to $125,000, can indeed help fund conservation efforts.

"The entire process that allows hunting big cats in Africa needs a complete overhaul to purge its widespread excesses and enforce far stricter limits on which lions can be hunted and how many," writes Hunter. "That would force hunters to produce the conservation benefits of which they constantly boast but only rarely produce."

Reading the whole article puts it in a bit of a different perspective.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:22 AM

That second article is what this quote was culled from.

Reading the whole article puts it in a bit of a different perspective.

Yeah, when you read it it's much different:

Indeed, it even has the potential to benefit lions. In Africa, sport hunting is the main revenue earner for huge tracts of wilderness outside national parks and reserves. Many such areas are too remote, undeveloped or disease-ridden for the average tourist, precluding their use for photographic safaris. Hunting survives because hunters are usually more tolerant of hardship, and they pay extraordinary sums- up to US$125,000- to shoot a male lion. The business requires only a handful of rifle-toting visitors to prosper which, in principle, helps protect those areas. The presence of hunting provides African governments with the economic argument to leave safari blocks as wilderness. Without it, cattle and crops- and the almost complete loss of wildlife they bring- start looking pretty attractive.

Which is why I’m not happy about the ESA petition. If American hunters, by far the largest market for big game safaris in Africa, can no longer hunt, lions and other wildlife will probably lose out. As unpalatable as it may be, until we find alternative mechanisms to generate the hard cash required to protect wilderness in Africa, hunting remains the most convincing model for many wild areas.

http://www.panthera.org/node/1253

oyarde

11-20-2013, 01:22 AM

Nothing like sharing a lion steak or cape buffalo steak over an open fire in Rhodesia with an old Rhodesian Ridgeback after you gave him the day off and just did it yourself :)

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:24 AM

Nothing like sharing a lion steak or cape buffalo steak over an open fire in Rhodesia with an old Rhodesian Ridgeback after you gave him the day off and just did it yourself :)

It's called Zimbabwe you racist! (that's what a girl from Zimbabwe/Rhodesia used to always say to me)

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 01:25 AM

Yeah, when you read it it's much different:

Selective reporting, same ol' same old.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:27 AM

I think I'm going to start a savings account to go on a lion hunt. I just hope they aren't extinct by the time I save enough money.

oyarde

11-20-2013, 01:31 AM

It's called Zimbabwe you racist! (that's what a girl from Zimbabwe/Rhodesia used to always say to me)

But my 12 Ga jungle rounds say Rhodesian on the box still :) and all the guys( white & black ) I drank with who were caught up in the bush war , liked it better before :) , lol

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:34 AM

But my 12 Ga jungle rounds say Rhodesian on the box still :) and all the guys( white & black ) I drank with who were caught up in the bush war , liked it better before :) , lol

Well Mugabe has done such a great job with the place since he came into power, I wonder how anyone could ever not prefer it now?!?! I mean, Rhodesia was a net exporter of meat and grain, but now people are kazillionaires!!!

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/3/25/1237999328897/Zimbabwe-One-Hundred-Tril-001.jpg

oyarde

11-20-2013, 01:35 AM

I think I'm going to start a savings account to go on a lion hunt. I just hope they aren't extinct by the time I save enough money.

You should probably take me along .Nothing cooler than roasting some buffalo and listening to all the predators while you wait for dinner to cook :) , lol

DamianTV

11-20-2013, 01:37 AM

It's the smiling that's the fuse on this. It's fucked up to be happy about killing something, especially such a beautiful and majestic creature.

Its even more fucked up to be smiling about having just killed something that will be EXTINCT in ten to twenty years.

DamianTV

11-20-2013, 01:38 AM

Some people seriously have nothing better to do in their lives than to complain.

That hunt must have been amazing, I'd love to get that opportunity one day.

Well, what goes around, comes around; Law of Karma and all that.

Yeah, these two things.

oyarde

11-20-2013, 01:39 AM

Well Mugabe has done such a great job with the place since he came into power, I wonder how anyone could ever not prefer it now?!?! I mean, Rhodesia was a net exporter of meat and grain, but now people are kazillionaires!!!

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/3/25/1237999328897/Zimbabwe-One-Hundred-Tril-001.jpgYeah , people probably have no idea how nice it was before the retards got control .

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:44 AM

Its even more fucked up to be smiling about having just killed something that will be EXTINCT in ten to twenty years.

I'm guessing you haven't read through the thread. Without managed hunting you can definitely expect lions to be extinct in a few decades. With managed hunting and the wilderness conservation it brings, we can postpone that for a couple more decades. Eventually, the lion will go extinct, boo hoo, that's life.

oyarde

11-20-2013, 01:45 AM

The Field museum has the Tsavo lions.I am not really sure how many people these two lions ate , at least 35.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:46 AM

The Field museum has the Tsavo lions.I am not really sure how many people these two lions ate , at least 35.

Danke's eaten more women big game than that.

nobody's_hero

11-20-2013, 02:20 AM

Should have just shot a cow. Then it'd be ok.

Man, talk about shooting fish in a barrel. Cows will basically walk into the butcher for you.

Demigod

11-20-2013, 02:25 AM

She said she's against poaching but what is the difference between her "guided" hunts and poaching?

The difference is that the money made from her hunt are used to feed the animals and maintain the national park.In my country most of the national parks are under private renting and they take care of the animals and forest while making their money from some English nobility or old people who dream of being hunters so they will walk them trough the forest and let them shoot some old animal for which they pay good money.Now there are no lions here,they hunt for wild goats and boars but the principle is the same.

Catching poachers and hunts like this is what keep the parks maintained.

erowe1

11-20-2013, 06:46 AM

Oh, okay. "Perfectly legal." So that makes it perfectly acceptable? Take your trophy and shove it, lady.

I agree with your sentiment. But if it's perfectly legal, that does make the protest to deny her entry into the country look pretty ridiculous to me.

tod evans

11-20-2013, 07:02 AM

I have no desire to shoot lions, but I'm certainly not going to condemn those who do.

Bambi's cute too and I'll absolutely kill and eat it.

specsaregood

11-20-2013, 07:09 AM

Seriously? Animals hunt to eat. The idea of killing for fun is disgusting. Hunting is disgusting.

Lions will kill hyenas for fun/sport/spite. They've known to kill other animals with no intention of eating them as well. Hell, even fat housecats kill for sport all the time.

jkr

11-20-2013, 07:21 AM

NOT
hunting

shane77m

11-20-2013, 07:30 AM

Seriously? Animals hunt to eat. The idea of killing for fun is disgusting. Hunting is disgusting.

I have seen many housecats kill for the fun of it.

shane77m

11-20-2013, 07:32 AM

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?433473-The-Pussification-of-the-Western-Male

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 07:55 AM

I have seen many housecats kill for the fun of it.

I call my cat little Hitler.

VIDEODROME

11-20-2013, 08:15 AM

I'd show up for the tour and shoot the horses.

Deborah K

11-20-2013, 12:31 PM

I agree with your sentiment. But if it's perfectly legal, that does make the protest to deny her entry into the country look pretty ridiculous to me.

I don't have an opinion one way or another regarding the protest.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 12:36 PM

NOT
hunting

How is it not hunting?

Snew

11-20-2013, 12:47 PM

The only reason to kill one of God's creatures is for food or safety; never for pride or tax gains.

Truth.

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:03 PM

Oh, okay. "Perfectly legal." So that makes it perfectly acceptable? Take your trophy and shove it, lady.

No, but lions aren't people and don't have rights. What's worse about killing a lion than killing any other animal?

Liberal environmentalists are annoying. Not necessarily saying you are one, but this:

lion she has just executed and murdered in our country. As taxpayers we demand she no longer be granted access to this country and its natural resources."

Is absolute environmentalist, God-hating crap.

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:05 PM

Some people seriously have nothing better to do in their lives than to complain.

That hunt must have been amazing, I'd love to get that opportunity one day.

I bet it was.

Are you seriously comparing hunting an animal to killing people using drones?

C'mon Phil, you're smarter than that.

The rightful penalty for "Drone hunters" is death. The rightful penalty for killing an endangered animal is... wait, who cares?

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:06 PM

I agree with your sentiment. But if it's perfectly legal, that does make the protest to deny her entry into the country look pretty ridiculous to me.

Why is this wrong? I agree that legality =/= morality, but I just don't see how this is wrong.

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:07 PM

Deborah K

11-20-2013, 01:09 PM

No, but lions aren't people and don't have rights. What's worse about killing a lion than killing any other animal?

Liberal environmentalists are annoying. Not necessarily saying you are one, but this:

Is absolute environmentalist, God-hating crap.

I'm philosophically opposed to this kind of 'hunting', and I abhor making trophies out of dead animals.

thoughtomator

11-20-2013, 01:10 PM

The lesson here is that you don't want to end up on the wrong side of cats on the Internet.

Snew

11-20-2013, 01:11 PM

compromise

11-20-2013, 01:12 PM

This animal was born and bred for the purpose of being hunted.

It probably lived a far better life than most of the animals you guys eat. The instructors most likely ensured it had a swift death with minimal pain.

I'm a vegetarian personally and I don't hunt myself, but I have no objection to other people hunting. I do have an objection to those who feel so strongly about a lion or a bear or a crocodile while not caring about a cow or a chicken. What's the difference aside from one being "normal"?

RJB

11-20-2013, 01:13 PM

I call my cat little Hitler.
http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigbest.pl?4
http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/09kitler.jpg

Ender

11-20-2013, 01:14 PM

No, but lions aren't people and don't have rights. What's worse about killing a lion than killing any other animal?

Liberal environmentalists are annoying. Not necessarily saying you are one, but this:

Is absolute environmentalist, God-hating crap.

So to abhor killing animals for pleasure is God-hating crap? Hmmmm....... next time you see Jesus tell him that animals have no rights. I think he'll disagree.

"Whatever you have done to the least of these, my brothers, ye have done unto me."

erowe1

11-20-2013, 01:15 PM

Why is this wrong? I agree that legality =/= morality, but I just don't see how this is wrong.

For the same reason I think what these guys did was wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYFD18BwmJ4

They destroyed something valuable that belonged to humanity without producing anything from it, or meeting any demand other than that of puffing up their egos.

compromise

11-20-2013, 01:15 PM

I'm guessing you haven't read through the thread. Without managed hunting you can definitely expect lions to be extinct in a few decades. With managed hunting and the wilderness conservation it brings, we can postpone that for a couple more decades. Eventually, the lion will go extinct, boo hoo, that's life.

I doubt the lion will ever go extinct if property rights and economic freedom are increased in African countries. There's too much profit to be made from the lion for people to just allow lions to go extinct. The rarer lions get, the more expensive lions get, therefore the greater the incentive to breed them.

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:17 PM

I'm philosophically opposed to this kind of 'hunting', and I abhor making trophies out of dead animals.

That's fine. I don't really have a problem with it (Unless they deliberately made the animal suffer) but that's fine.

Where do you get "God-hating" out of that? Genuinely curious.

You know, I had this (http://godawa.com/movieblog/darren-aronofskys-noah-environmentalist-wacko/) in mind when I made my post, but ultimately, it was because it called the killing of an animal "murder", which is a blatant violation of what God told Noah in Genesis 9.

This animal was born and bred for the purpose of being hunted.

It probably lived a far better life than most of the animals you guys eat. The instructors most likely ensured it had a swift death with minimal pain.

I'm a vegetarian personally and I don't hunt myself, but I have no objection to other people hunting. I do have an objection to those who feel so strongly about a lion or a bear or a crocodile while not caring about a cow or a chicken. What's the difference aside from one being "normal"?

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:27 PM

For the same reason I think what these guys did was wrong.

They destroyed something valuable that belonged to humanity without producing anything from it, or meeting any demand other than that of puffing up their egos.

Except that's not what happened in this case. The meat was all given to locals, the money from the hunt pays for rebuilding the border fence, patrolling against poachers, and running the conservancy.

James Madison

11-20-2013, 01:34 PM

Evolve or get out of the way.

erowe1

11-20-2013, 01:35 PM

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 01:41 PM

I think that its interesting that most of the moderates agree with me here while most of the more radical libertarians don't. Hmmm....

Erowe1, I'll watch your video later, but they did eat the lion so it wasn't valueless.

Cutlerzzz

11-20-2013, 01:53 PM

I don't see the controversy. Perhaps millions of Americans have hunted deer and taken similar photos.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 01:54 PM

I don't see the controversy. Perhaps millions of Americans have hunted deer and taken similar photos.

People with nothing better to do like to make controversy out of nothing.

Ender

11-20-2013, 01:56 PM

Ender

11-20-2013, 01:57 PM

I don't see the controversy. Perhaps millions of Americans have hunted deer and taken similar photos.

This is because the deer are hunted for food and not for pleasure in a kill. Deer are also not a vulnerable species.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 02:00 PM

Lion is not common meat in Africa and most Africans do not eat it.

Deer is not common meat in the US and most Americans do not eat it.

shane77m

11-20-2013, 02:06 PM

I hunt deer for the sport. Don't particularly like to eat them unless it is made into sausage and put inside a cathead biscuit or if it is barbecued. Around here it is not hard to give away the meat to people that do like it.

Ender

11-20-2013, 02:08 PM

Deer is not common meat in the US and most Americans do not eat it.

LOL

Obviously you do not live in the mid western United States.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 02:09 PM

LOL

Obviously you do not live in the mid western United States.

It's common in parts of the US, but the vast majority of Americans do not eat deer. It is not a common meat like chicken, pork, or beef. I'd wager than less than 5% of Americans regularly eat deer meat.

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 02:10 PM

Evolve or get out of the way.

I don't believe in (macro)evolution;)

Deer is not common meat in the US and most Americans do not eat it.

I owe you a rep. LOL!

Cutlerzzz

11-20-2013, 02:17 PM

This is because the deer are hunted for food and not for pleasure in a kill. Deer are also not a vulnerable species.

Are you saying deer are not hunted for sport or pleasure, and that hunting this lion hurt the species?

Cutlerzzz

11-20-2013, 02:19 PM

LOL

Obviously you do not live in the mid western United States.

I lived almost my whole life in the mid west, and most people don't eat deer meat. I've never had any and I can't recall any grocery stores that serve it.

Ender

11-20-2013, 02:25 PM

I lived almost my whole life in the mid west, and most people don't eat deer meat. I've never had any and I can't recall any grocery stores that serve it.

Grocery stores usually do not carry it because of the FDA- however, deer hunting is huge through most of the west and most people in my state have freezers stocked with it.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 02:26 PM

Grocery stores usually do not carry it because of the FDA- however, deer hunting is huge through most of the west and most people in my state have freezers stocked with it.

Most people = 50%+

I highly doubt that.

Matthew5

11-20-2013, 02:27 PM

This is because the deer are hunted for food and not for pleasure in a kill.

Really? (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=deer+trophy+hunting)

specsaregood

11-20-2013, 02:29 PM

Most people = 50%+
I highly doubt that.

Well, maybe he wasn't counting city-folk as "people" in which case he might be close to the truth. Even people that don't hunt know people that do, and most have extra to give away to friends and relatives. I haven't been hunting since I moved to this cursed state, and yet I always have deer in my freezer from relatives.

Ender

11-20-2013, 02:30 PM

Most people = 50%+

I highly doubt that.

You've never been to Utah.

specsaregood: Well, maybe he wasn't counting city-folk as "people" in which case he might be close to the truth.

Or you, either.

Brian4Liberty

11-20-2013, 02:38 PM

Should have just shot a cow. Then it'd be ok.

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ef4f9c2070.jpg

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 02:49 PM

You've never been to Utah.

So you're telling me that more than 50% of the people living in Salt Lake City and Provo eat deer regularly and have it in their freezers?

erowe1

11-20-2013, 02:54 PM

Deborah K

11-20-2013, 03:02 PM

Except that's not what happened in this case. The meat was all given to locals, the money from the hunt pays for rebuilding the border fence, patrolling against poachers, and running the conservancy.

This assumes that there is no other way to meet those needs without bloodsport. For example: she could just hunt down the poachers. She could kneel over her kill and smile that shit-eating smile, and all the townspeople will be filled with relief. snark

Barrex

11-20-2013, 03:12 PM

Ender

11-20-2013, 03:29 PM

So you're telling me that more than 50% of the people living in Salt Lake City and Provo eat deer regularly and have it in their freezers?

Well, I'll let you do the door-to-door poll. ;)

However, Utah's fall break for public schools is always built around the deer hunting season. Very few people I know here do not have venison in the freezer; Utah is the state of self-reliance and preparedness.

Here's a snippet from the SL tribune about the closing of parks etc during the gov shutdown:

Families should not expect to find camping spots on lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service or the BLM when considering a change of plans. All developed campgrounds and facilities from both agencies are closed. Dispersed camping is allowed, but the woods might be crowded. The general season deer hunt opens Oct. 19 and more than 70,000 hunters are expected to take part.

Ender

11-20-2013, 03:31 PM

phill4paul

11-20-2013, 07:21 PM

James Madison

11-20-2013, 07:26 PM

Something I just realized...

Isn't this exactly what Teddy Roosevelt did while President? Wonder what their opinion of him is.

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 07:30 PM

Oh, okay. "Perfectly legal." So that makes it perfectly acceptable? Take your trophy and shove it, lady.

Besides just writing a check, it the absolute best thing you can do if you care about improving the state of big game. I'm sure the average person, if their were educated on the issue, would consider this lady a hero.

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 07:31 PM

Something I just realized...

Isn't this exactly what Teddy Roosevelt did while President? Wonder what their opinion of him is.

No. This is much, much better. As it helps the local people, but more importantly, because it is so expensive to legally do this nowadays, it generates a lot of money that is used for anti-poaching measures.

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 07:36 PM

This is because the deer are hunted for food and not for pleasure in a kill. Deer are also not a vulnerable species.

That's the point, thank you. Because lions are a vulnerable species, money must be spent to build fences and on anti-poaching measures to protect them. Some animal rights activists refuse to put their money where the mouth is with enough money to greatly reduce poaching, the occasional, regulated lion hunt is a source used to raise the funds. If animal rights activists more than cared in name only, lion hunts would be less common. Thank goodness for real conservationists like this lady.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 07:38 PM

You've never been to Utah.

Or you, either.

Why would anybody go to Utah?

shane77m

11-20-2013, 07:41 PM

Planning on going in a couple of weeks. Hopefully will get to try out my new 300 winmag. I will be sure to post a picture in this thread if I get a big one.

phill4paul

11-20-2013, 07:52 PM

Besides just writing a check, it the absolute best thing you can do if you care about improving the state of big game. I'm sure the average person, if their were educated on the issue, would consider this lady a hero.

Some people consider Chris Kyle a hero. :rolleyes: Putting something in your cross hairs does not a hero make.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 07:54 PM

Why would anybody go to Utah?

No idea. That place looks boring.

http://www.craftbeeranalytics.com/uploads/3/3/8/9/3389428/4285427_orig.jpg

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 08:19 PM

No idea. That place looks boring.

http://www.craftbeeranalytics.com/uploads/3/3/8/9/3389428/4285427_orig.jpg

They can't even remember to hold elections.

James Madison

11-20-2013, 08:24 PM

No idea. That place looks boring.

http://www.craftbeeranalytics.com/uploads/3/3/8/9/3389428/4285427_orig.jpg

Alcohol is forbidden in Mormonism. I guess Jesus wasn't a very good Christian. :rolleyes:

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 08:28 PM

Some people consider Chris Kyle a hero. :rolleyes: Putting something in your cross hairs does not a hero make.
Don't you care about saving lions at all? Do you want them all to die or something?

phill4paul

11-20-2013, 08:34 PM

Don't you care about saving lions at all? Do you want them all to die or something?

We must kill them to save them? Where have I heard that one used before?

specsaregood

11-20-2013, 08:38 PM

Why would anybody go to Utah?

Its pretty country. And I've met a fair number of good looking nice girls from there.

Pericles

11-20-2013, 08:40 PM

So when is tyrant season open?

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 08:41 PM

Don't you care about saving lions at all? Do you want them all to die or something?

It appears I have been successfully trolled. That's fine, think what you want, but without these conservatories the lions will be poached, poisoned, and driven out of existence very soon.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 08:42 PM

Its pretty country. And I've met a fair number of good looking nice girls from there.

I wasn't serious.

eduardo89

11-20-2013, 08:46 PM

Its pretty country. And I've met a fair number of good looking nice girls from there.

One thing I've learned about Utah from watching LAHWF's videos is that the girls are very pretty.

kcchiefs6465

11-20-2013, 08:57 PM

I wonder if He had a license?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KYalwnPmp8

(deer gets executed, somewhat graphic)

"Hunting"..... (though truth be told they probably poured bleach on the meat)

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 08:59 PM

We must kill them to save them? Where have I heard that one used before?

I thought this was a well known theory. And it actually works.

Here's the deal. Animal rights activists refuse to protect big game from poachers. But rich people will, if they are allowed to shoot a very small number of animals. That allows overall populations to grow. Thus saving the whole as a group, while killing a smaller number of animals and in a way that's more useful to the community.

This issue is so cut and dry and non-relevant to any of us, I really don't see the point in even talking about it any more.

Saint Vitus

11-20-2013, 09:10 PM

I'm a big proponent of hunting for food. I have made many meals off of deer and wild hogs that I've killed. But Ive got absolutely no use for "trophy hunters", and I have a hard time believing that this woman killed this lion for food.

Saint Vitus

11-20-2013, 09:15 PM

No idea. That place looks boring.

http://www.craftbeeranalytics.com/uploads/3/3/8/9/3389428/4285427_orig.jpg

I wonder where Oklahoma would be on that chart, because you have to drink 2X as much to get a buzz with its shitty 3.2 beer laws. I'm so glad that I'm out of that state.

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 09:28 PM

I wonder where Oklahoma would be on that chart, because you have to drink 2X as much to get a buzz with its shitty 3.2 beer laws. I'm so glad that I'm out of that state.

Here you go. http://www.statcrunch.com/grabimageforreport.php?reportid=12028&image_id=451943

jonhowe

11-20-2013, 09:39 PM

“We do ethical hunting and all meat from animals hunted is distributed to the local community," a post on Maroi's Facebook page reads. "Funds generated from hunting goes towards fixing the border fence that was washed away in the 2013 floods, combating poaching, which is excessive in this area due to close proximity to Zimbabwe, and running a sustainable conservancy."

Have you really no idea how hunting and hunters help with conservation?

You're proving my point. These are small companies that want to hunt big cats. They pay themselves well and then give the extra to local causes to gain local political support. "Let us hunt your lions, we'll give you money for your fence". It's like this in many parts of africa. The worthy cause is an afterthought to the needless desire to kill rare and dangerous animals.

erowe1

11-20-2013, 09:41 PM

the needless desire to kill rare and dangerous animals.

The part about them being dangerous goes against the part about how killing them is needless.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 09:43 PM

You're proving my point. These are small companies that want to hunt big cats. They pay themselves well and then give the extra to local causes to gain local political support. "Let us hunt your lions, we'll give you money for your fence". It's like this in many parts of africa. The worthy cause is an afterthought to the needless desire to kill rare and dangerous animals.

Except for the fact that if they run out of said animals they are out of business, no? And how are they doing off of the conservatories?

erowe1

11-20-2013, 09:48 PM

Isn't this exactly what Teddy Roosevelt did while President?

That makes me want to take the protesters' side more.

kcchiefs6465

11-20-2013, 09:50 PM

Christian Liberty

11-20-2013, 09:54 PM

The amount of crazy environmentalists among people I normally agree with is surprising. Killing lions would be a victimless crime.

Something I just realized...

Isn't this exactly what Teddy Roosevelt did while President? Wonder what their opinion of him is.

My opinion of him is pretty low, but not for this reason.

Besides just writing a check, it the absolute best thing you can do if you care about improving the state of big game. I'm sure the average person, if their were educated on the issue, would consider this lady a hero.

I don't consider her a hero. I don't care that much if the lions go extinct or not. Doesn't affect my life unless I ever go to a zoo again. But I have no issue with what she did either.

Some people consider Chris Kyle a hero. :rolleyes: Putting something in your cross hairs does not a hero make.

Chris Kyle killed human beings. He was a murderer.

Melissa Bachmann killed a animal. no matter how "majestic" or "rare" this particular animal is, that's nowhere near equivalent to killing a human being.

Mind you, I'm not saying she's a hero either, but comparing her to Kyle is to give Kyle far better than he deserves. Kyle was proud of the fact that he murdered 100+ people, and his only regret was that he didn't kill more. "Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword" (Thank you Ron Paul for having the guts to say it.) Which, incidentally, wasn't talking about killing animals either.

So when is tyrant season open?

LOL! I think July 4 is a good date;)

I'm a big proponent of hunting for food. I have made many meals off of deer and wild hogs that I've killed. But Ive got absolutely no use for "trophy hunters", and I have a hard time believing that this woman killed this lion for food.

You may have no use for them, but that doesn't mean you should vilify her.

The part about them being dangerous goes against the part about how killing them is needless.

LOL! Yes. Environmentalist hypocrites.

That makes me want to take the protesters' side more.

LOL! +rep.

Origanalist

11-20-2013, 09:57 PM

//

I saw that. :D

kcchiefs6465

11-20-2013, 10:05 PM

I saw that. :D
It isn't my words do not stand, simply that the phrasing I used could be [intentionally] manipulated or misconstrued.

Keith and stuff

11-20-2013, 10:38 PM

...

I find it unfortunate that you don't want to save the lions. But that is your right. And it seems most people in this thread also don't care about saving lions either, but you are on the opposite side of them in your opinion on the OP. So at least is this case, you both take the moral high ground and are on the practical side.

Working Poor

11-20-2013, 11:06 PM

I think that killing just for the sake of killing is so wrong. I could never do it.

Ender

11-20-2013, 11:12 PM

I find it unfortunate that you don't want to save the lions. But that is your right. And it seems most people in this thread also don't care about saving lions either, but you are on the opposite side of them in your opinion on the OP. So at least is this case, you both take the moral high ground and are on the practical side.

Wanting to save lions has nothing to do with thinking it's cool to kill them for sport. There are better ways to raise funds than killing a vulnerable species.

FreedomFanatic
The amount of crazy environmentalists among people I normally agree with is surprising. Killing lions would be a victimless crime.

Really.

Victimless for who?

Here is a statement on what happens when/if the tiger becomes extinct- same applies to the lion:

Since all living things are connecting in one way or another, yes, if one is eliminated, the ecosystem will be affected. Depending on the species removed, this could be a minor or very major impact. Tigers are considered apex predators, since they are at the top of the food chain.

Apex predators are responsible for keeping the populations of prey species in check, so without tigers, numbers of deer and other grazing animals will increase. With more grazing animals, more plant life will be eaten, reducing habitat for small animals that live in undergrowth, reducing food for herbivorous insects, reducing the population of the birds and animals that eat those insects, and even affecting the abiotic environment eventually, as more plants die of overgrazing, soil erosion along riverbanks will increase, changing the water chemistry and increasing sediment.

These impacts were seen in Yellowstone when wolves were being highly hunted. When wolves were reintroduced, balance was restored, and people learned what happened when you took out a part of the food chain. Hopefully people will see how important tigers are to the ecosystem as a whole and better measures will be taken to protect them and their habitat.

Source:
wildlife conservation major

Educate yourself.

Wooden Indian

11-21-2013, 12:16 AM

Ender

11-21-2013, 12:38 AM

Cheese and crackers! If I didn't know better, I'd swear I logged in at the HuffPo based on some of the liberal whiny assed comments. Guess what, ladies, your Big Mac didn't fall from a tree, and your 10 piece chicken dinner didn't get plucked from a bush.

This critter was fair game, and fed a bunch of hungry folks. Sorry you find lions so cute, but meat is meat. And this is FAR more humane than what goes down at the Tyson Factory where your latest batch of chicken tenders shipped from.

Wooden Indian, eh? Your answer is definitely not Indian.

For my people, I will say this:

Those who hunt in the traditional fashion (and not everyone does this) will sing the night before, asking for the game to give itself to him, saying why we need it.

If we are successful in the hunt, we will thank the animal who gave itself to us, and bury a small portion of it (kinda like a symbolic burial) to give it back to itself, along with a small gift.

Moreoever, the animal's carcass must be treated with respect, butchered quickly and cleanly, and packaged before bringing it back home. It is considered VERY bad to bring the game back to your house still intact (or only field-dressed) That is considered very disrespectful to the animal.

If you want more details, come hunting with me.

Source(s):
Navajo

oyarde

11-21-2013, 02:33 AM

If you are not going to eat it you are not hunter.
If you are "sport hunter" use spear not sniper rifle that hits form miles away. Then you might have some respect from me.
Killing animals just to kill is wrong on so many levels.

I have taken meat with knife , spear , arrow , atlal, line , hook, hands , rifle , shotgun , trap , weir , snare, Kite , pit, pistol etc .Eating is just part of living. I love and respect the wildlife, but it is food.

nobody's_hero

11-21-2013, 07:50 AM

Although I'm not up in arms over someone killing a lion, I can't imagine that lion meat is all that tender. Probably tastes really 'gamey' but I'd be willing to try it.

Keith and stuff

11-21-2013, 08:05 AM

Wanting to save lions has nothing to do with thinking it's cool to kill them for sport. There are better ways to raise funds than killing a vulnerable species.
It's about raising the money to protect the species. If you have a better fundraising technique, you are welcome to do it. On the other hand, this is actually being done and it works. Thank God! If it was up to animal rights activists, many would die while the activists endlessly debated but did nothing helpful.

Keith and stuff

11-21-2013, 08:07 AM

I think that killing just for the sake of killing is so wrong. I could never do it.

I agree. If we did that, we would be doing what many police officers do to dogs.

familydog

11-21-2013, 09:15 AM

Wooden Indian

11-21-2013, 09:18 AM

Wooden Indian, eh? Your answer is definitely not Indian.

Didn't know it was supposed to be.
Who's that girl in your avatar? Why did you say she's there due to you being a good bowhunter or something like that? I didn't get it.

kcchiefs6465

11-21-2013, 09:52 AM

Although I'm not up in arms over someone killing a lion, I can't imagine that lion meat is all that tender. Probably tastes really 'gamey' but I'd be willing to try it.
Lion meat is delicious. It isn't gamey at all.

tod evans

11-21-2013, 09:54 AM

Lion meat is delicious. It isn't gamey at all.

Taste anything like the cat down at the Chinese joint?

shane77m

11-21-2013, 10:04 AM

Taste anything like the cat down at the Chinese joint?

Sesame lion... hmmm
Lion dumplings...
Mongolian lion....
Lion lo mein....
Sweet and sour lion....

Dang. Making me hungry.

kcchiefs6465

11-21-2013, 10:12 AM

Taste anything like the cat down at the Chinese joint?
I've actually had cat... which is delicious as well, but no it had a flavor of its own.

They sell lion at the fair here. I try something different every year.

specsaregood

11-21-2013, 10:27 AM

Although I'm not up in arms over someone killing a lion, I can't imagine that lion meat is all that tender. Probably tastes really 'gamey' but I'd be willing to try it.

I'd eat some lion.

Barrex

11-21-2013, 10:54 AM

Lion meat is delicious. It isn't gamey at all.

Liar. It tastes like chess with a hint of monopoly.

Ender

11-21-2013, 11:09 AM

Didn't know it was supposed to be.
Who's that girl in your avatar? Why did you say she's there due to you being a good bowhunter or something like that? I didn't get it.

The "girl" isn't a girl. It's Legolas the Elf warrior from Lord of the Rings, who is superb with a bow. The part is played by Orlando Bloom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQSV3_NPIqM

Funny, you're the 2nd person that thought the avatar was a girl- thought RP forum members would be a little more hip to LOTR.

specsaregood

11-21-2013, 11:28 AM

Funny, you're the 2nd person that thought the avatar was a girl- thought RP forum members would be a little more hip to LOTR.

I guess RP forum members just aren't hip to shitty movies.

phill4paul

11-21-2013, 11:29 AM

The "girl" isn't a girl. It's Legolas the Elf warrior from Lord of the Rings, who is superb with a bow. The part is played by Orlando Bloom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQSV3_NPIqM

Funny, you're the 2nd person that thought the avatar was a girl- thought RP forum members would be a little more hip to LOTR.

I'm pretty sure they're trolling you.

tod evans

11-21-2013, 11:50 AM

I've never seen the movie.

Read the books back in the dark-ages and haven't wanted to ruin my mental picture of the characters..

Ender

11-21-2013, 01:54 PM

I guess RP forum members just aren't hip to shitty movies.

Yeah-

Who'd wanna watch movies about libertarian principles of freedom and overcoming evil by working together.

Can't have that. :cool:

specsaregood

11-21-2013, 02:33 PM

Yeah-
Who'd wanna watch movies about libertarian principles of freedom and overcoming evil by working together.
Can't have that. :cool:

Ah, that explains the difference in opinions. All that awesome libertarian messaging must have been drowned out by all my snoring -- those movies are better than most prescription sleep aids.

Pericles

11-21-2013, 02:37 PM

Ah, that explains the difference in opinions. All that awesome libertarian messaging must have been drowned out by all my snoring -- those movies are better than most prescription sleep aids.

Escaped me as well, but it did come through when reading Heinlein.

Ender

11-21-2013, 03:32 PM

Escaped me as well, but it did come through when reading Heinlein.

Heinlein is my favorite sic-fi author; doesn't get much better.

Ender

11-21-2013, 03:33 PM

Ah, that explains the difference in opinions. All that awesome libertarian messaging must have been drowned out by all my snoring -- those movies are better than most prescription sleep aids.

Funny how differences in POV and tastes seems to lead to personal bashing; would be nice to get past this shite.

goliberty78

11-21-2013, 03:35 PM

I guess RP forum members just aren't hip to shitty movies.

Apparently they aren't hip to hunting and wildlife conservation either

specsaregood

11-21-2013, 03:39 PM

Funny how differences in POV and tastes seems to lead to personal bashing; would be nice to get past this shite.

I sure hope you are referring to somebody else; I don't believe I have bashed anybody personally lately.

eduardo89

11-21-2013, 03:53 PM

The "girl" isn't a girl. It's Legolas the Elf warrior from Lord of the Rings, who is superb with a bow. The part is played by Orlando Bloom.

Funny, you're the 2nd person that thought the avatar was a girl- thought RP forum members would be a little more hip to LOTR.

I could have sworn Orlando Bloom was a chick.

Snew

11-21-2013, 04:07 PM

jllundqu

11-21-2013, 04:28 PM

How is this not hunting? And who cares if she personally didn't do all the hard work, same end result: dead animal, awesome trophy.

Anyone who hunts for a "trophy" should be flogged. They are a disgrace and they are not hunters... they are cowards.

Ender

11-21-2013, 05:00 PM

I could have sworn Orlando Bloom was a chick.

No- not when he is fighting for and against Cap'n Jack Sparrow. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5bXNtXgzXw

eduardo89

11-21-2013, 05:17 PM

No- not when he is fighting for and against Cap'n Jack Sparrow. ;)

You have an unhealthy attraction to Orlando Bloom...

Ender

11-21-2013, 05:47 PM

You have an unhealthy attraction to Orlando Bloom...

No- YOU do- as a chick. ;) I was just proving he is not.

I personally like Legolas and what he stands for- Orlando simply played him in the movie.

Origanalist

11-21-2013, 10:48 PM

Anyone who hunts for a "trophy" should be flogged. They are a disgrace and they are not hunters... they are cowards.

Give it a shot. Bet she whips your ass.

kcchiefs6465

11-21-2013, 11:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLvRRkqI4_Q

Ender

11-22-2013, 12:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLvRRkqI4_Q

Beautiful, kcchiefs6465! His last words are extremely profound.

Thanks for sharing.

Danke

11-22-2013, 01:15 AM

eduardo89

11-22-2013, 01:33 AM

Beautiful, kcchiefs6465! His last words are extremely profound.

Didn't watch the video, but I'm assuming the lion ate him?

Ender

11-22-2013, 01:49 AM

Didn't watch the video, but I'm assuming the lion ate him?

Oh. Ha.

You know what they say about ASSuming, Eduardo. ;)

Ender

11-22-2013, 01:51 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb6Rk6--Acw

My girlfriend tells me I'm a boy. :cool:

Danke

11-22-2013, 02:11 AM

Didn't watch the video, but I'm assuming the lion ate him?

Not yet. Remember Timothy Treadwell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9lCkFygaaQ

NorthCarolinaLiberty

11-22-2013, 02:20 AM

Looks like the uh--"female"--version of another ass clown named Nugent.

It won't be long before somebody busts them for their trophy hunting--feed the world hypocrisy by discovering a dead bear on a pile of beer bottles.

Czolgosz

11-22-2013, 11:53 AM

We can befriend them, eat them, and put 'em up as trophies. Love how the big kittehs close their eyes as they hug that dude.

Lucille

11-24-2013, 01:11 PM

I'm with Mercer (who extends her criticism to neocon barbarian princess S. E. Cupp) and many others here.

http://barelyablog.com/just-a-girl-with-a-gun-not-a-gratuitous-killer/

“It’s perfectly legal,” roared the conservative pack animals stateside. Especially eager to exhibit their macho-girl credentials were the younger chicks of this silly species. …

… More to the point: an act that is legal is not necessarily moral…

… At best, these “conservative” screeches can lay claim to an impoverished, utilitarian philosophy, whereby such gratuitous, showy killing is condoned because it reduces man’s evil incentives to kill unprovoked.

Another gargoyle with a gun is teletart S. E. Cupp. Here Cupp is sprawled over a bear’s carcass, facial features deformed in Dionysian ecstasy.
[...]
The statement must first be qualified: I am a girl with guns. The writer’s weapon of choice is the Smith and Wesson 686P .357 4″. This gorgeous piece will fend off most wild beasts. But certain bedrock principles—arguably a true conservative mindset—dictate a respect for life. A life-conserving sensibility means that guns are meant for self-defense, not for needless killing. …
[...]
And Cupp is a leader of the pack, a luminary in the Age of the Idiot. The “intellectual” forte of this low-watt woman is to gesture wildly and grimace, while parroting the talking points and mind-numbing banalities disgorged by every other Bush bootlicker before her.

“The secret to becoming a successful right-wing columnist-cum-circus animal,” quipped Canadian conservative writer Kevin Michael Grace, “is to echo the mob while complimenting yourself on your daring. The rest is exploitation of the sexual masochism of the American male – he just can’t get enough of the kitten with claws.”

Those libido-driven males (for they are not men) who’ve deified “Duck Dynasty” also lap up the antics of America’s boneheaded Lolita. Watch this heathen skin a small bear. Watch Cupp whip out the little creature’s innards and offer them up to the camera, as she salivates about the fun she’s having.

There is nothing wrong with hunting for food and harvesting the animal humanely, discreetly and respectfully. This, however, is the hedonistic handiwork of an Aztec priestess.
[...]
Ilana Mercer: Magda Cracknell Neé Steenkamp: “Canned lion”: that’s a brilliant way of putting it. I admire your tradition and agree with you ethics.

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/11/just-girl-with-gun-not-gratuitous-killer.html

http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/just-a-girl-with-a-gun-not-a-gratuitous-killer/

Southron

11-24-2013, 03:43 PM

Love all these non-hunters telling people what "a real hunter" is.

kcchiefs6465

11-24-2013, 10:35 PM

Love all these non-hunters telling people what "a real hunter" is.
Riding around in your outfitted vehicles in an enclosure with guaranteed game is not hunting. The bitch didn't even eat the shit. You are a sociopath to gloat about killing anything, especially that which you do not even take from.

Whoopee. She shot a lion.

shane77m

11-24-2013, 11:26 PM

kcchiefs6465

11-24-2013, 11:56 PM

It takes a sociopath to eat meat from the supermarket. If you think a woman shooting a lion is cruel then work in the poultry/pork/beef business.

I imagine that more than likely most people getting bent out of shape over the woman killing the lion or people hunting have no problem with a doctor sucking the brains out of a child while it is still in the womb. After all, animals are more important than people.
I have seen the castrated piglets, the debeaked chickens: the factory farms. I am relatively poor, it is what I can afford. I respect the animal's sacrifice and somberly acknowledge my role in the misery of millions of innocent creatures. Killing something for food is different than killing for trophy, or than the horrid conditions many animals live under in today's society. I respect local butchers and the respect they give to their animals. If at all an option, I go with them above prepackaged torture.

I'm not bent out of shape over her killing a lion. I honestly don't care. The issue I have is going to be her gloating attitude and the fact that she didn't take the animal for any moral reason. She simply shot the thing so she could brag, no doubt. (as men with balls which haven't dropped, may) Do not imply I am a progressive. It is dishonest as you well know my views on the matter. I have explained them countless times. They are that which are logical, moral, and the truth. If, by some chance you do not know what I advocate for a particular topic, assume it is that. Your last few lines annoy me. Fallacious, at best, to compare (or imply my position to be akin to) a system of murder for convenience and 'our' utter disregard for life.

ord33

11-25-2013, 12:36 AM

I personally wouldn't go on a hunt for a lion, although I can see how if setup properly conservation areas like this where they have hunts can be beneficial to a dwindling species if the conservation area is handled and monitored properly. This lady killed a lion on a hunt on about 5,000 acres (2,000 hectacres according to the article). If she did this on foot, then I definitely don't have a problem with it. If she did the hunt primarily by ATV or vehicle, then its moderately okay in my opinion. If they used helicopters or something of that nature to identify where the lion was located, then its wrong.

I understand the lion is a much more endangered species than a bear, but Troy Gentry,famous Country music star, should REALLY be ridiculed for what he did. He even made a video and this big production acting like he got this bear on a thrilling hunt when in reality it was a TAME bear (actually hand fed in the past) in an ENCLOSED fairly small area. That, in my opinion, is not hunting. And he made it even worse by lying about it and making a video like it was some great achievement.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news/country-star-gentry-indicted-on-bear-killing-charges_1005522

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDsUx4PH5Aw (Worth watching this to see how bad the Troy Gentry bear killing actually was. It REALLY pissed me off)

What Troy Gentry did was one of the most disgusting things I've seen regarding hunting here in the United States. I've hunted since I was either 6 or 7 years old and have eaten every single thing I have ever killed except a few groundhogs that were doing damage to our garden. I go to painstaking care when fly fishing for trout to wet my hands, etc. before handling trout that I return to make sure they inflict as little damage as possible, etc. So, I am in the belief that you eat what you kill. I also prefer something more of a challenge such as muzzleloader, bow, and fly fishing. Although, I use high powered rifles on occasion.

NorthCarolinaLiberty

11-25-2013, 07:14 AM

I understand the lion is a much more endangered species than a bear, but Troy Gentry,famous Country music star, should REALLY be ridiculed for what he did. He even made a video and this big production acting like he got this bear on a thrilling hunt when in reality it was a TAME bear (actually hand fed in the past) in an ENCLOSED fairly small area. That, in my opinion, is not hunting. And he made it even worse by lying about it and making a video like it was some great achievement.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news/country-star-gentry-indicted-on-bear-killing-charges_1005522

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDsUx4PH5Aw (Worth watching this to see how bad the Troy Gentry bear killing actually was. It REALLY pissed me off)

What Troy Gentry did was one of the most disgusting things I've seen regarding hunting here in the United States. I've hunted since I was either 6 or 7 years old and have eaten every single thing I have ever killed except a few groundhogs that were doing damage to our garden. I go to painstaking care when fly fishing for trout to wet my hands, etc. before handling trout that I return to make sure they inflict as little damage as possible, etc. So, I am in the belief that you eat what you kill. I also prefer something more of a challenge such as muzzleloader, bow, and fly fishing. Although, I use high powered rifles on occasion.

Wow, what a piece of filth. I watched that video right up until the bear walked up. Sometimes I just can't take it. I hate when pieces of garbage pick on other things.

Sure, country radio tries to derail the Dixie Chicks for some comment. Where were they with this scum?

Christian Liberty

11-25-2013, 08:58 AM

Wanting to save lions has nothing to do with thinking it's cool to kill them for sport. There are better ways to raise funds than killing a vulnerable species.

Really.

Victimless for who?

Here is a statement on what happens when/if the tiger becomes extinct- same applies to the lion:

Educate yourself.

People.

matt0611

11-25-2013, 09:48 AM

oyarde

11-25-2013, 09:54 AM

There used to ba a Russian place in St Louis that had lion on the menu .

Danke

11-25-2013, 04:38 PM

There used to ba a Russian place in St Louis that had lion on the menu .

Did it taste like chicken?

jmdrake

11-25-2013, 05:41 PM

My apologies for turning it more grimly but does anyone remember number of Americans who signed up petition after following trophy photos were published?

Caution: very graphic

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/aa/Andrew_Holmes_pulling_a_dead_Afghan_boy_by_the_hai r_in_2010.jpg

http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2012/04/18/how-war-can-make-dehumanizing-and-horrific-events-seem-normal/jcr:content/image.img.640.512.jpg/1380037711667.cached.jpg

http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-198947-videoposter16-abcd.jpg

Sad the pics you posted. But sadder that this video garnered more outrage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa9bj-jqA8

Origanalist

11-25-2013, 05:42 PM

Did it taste like chicken?

Kitty chow yuk.

phill4paul

11-25-2013, 06:22 PM

Love all these non-hunters telling people what "a real hunter" is.

There is a difference between "game hunters" and "trophy hunters." I've hunted game. I can have my opinion of "trophy hunters." Got a problem with that? Then ya can get over it cause there ain't a damn thing you can do about it. Doesn't that just chap your ass?

specsaregood

11-25-2013, 06:43 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDsUx4PH5Aw (Worth watching this to see how bad the Troy Gentry bear killing actually was. It REALLY pissed me off)

What Troy Gentry did was one of the most disgusting things I've seen regarding hunting here in the United States.

Wow, watched the video. If its all true (I assume it is) that guy took douchebaggery to a whole new level; such a level that it might just require a new word to properly define.

oyarde

11-26-2013, 02:02 AM

Did it taste like chicken?

I never ate it there , but have on a couple of continents , my kills , once I was hunting the Lion , another time , it was hunting me , nah , does not taste like chicken . If you are interested , remind me later , I can put my best lion steak recipe up on my Sparrow Pie recipe thread on Rev

oyarde

11-26-2013, 02:04 AM

Did it taste like chicken?

If you cook it right , more like a gamey wild bull, or , as the Mrs calls some of the beef steaks I bring home , rodeo bull .

silverhandorder

11-26-2013, 05:51 AM

Bunch of hippies. Wars and mass consumption of meat is a thousand times more evil. She paid 80k for that trophy. You know how many people in Africa have a job because of people like her? I bet trophy hunters kill far less then locals and poachers.

shane77m

11-26-2013, 07:50 AM

Deborah K

11-26-2013, 03:08 PM

Deborah K

11-26-2013, 03:12 PM

It's about raising the money to protect the species. If you have a better fundraising technique, you are welcome to do it. On the other hand, this is actually being done and it works. Thank God! If it was up to animal rights activists, many would die while the activists endlessly debated but did nothing helpful.

hmmm...isn't that kinda a like violating the Constitution in order to save it? Like I stated before, the so-called trophy hunters can hunt the poachers - there's an answer for ya!

Deborah K

11-26-2013, 03:16 PM

You raise an important point. The treatment of corporate-farmed animals in this country is far more repugnant than this situation. A chicken with her beak burned off, being crapped on by the caged chicken above, then soullessly slaughtered is far more inhumane than this ridiculous "hunt." Far more animals are abused and killed to feed this obese country than necessary.

True. John Robbins wrote a book about it many years ago called: A Diet for a New America. And then there's the docu-drama called: Fast Food Nation. Horrific!

brushfire

11-26-2013, 04:00 PM

Why is this such a big deal?

Am I missing something here?

Some lady kills a wild animal (that is not even "endangered" by the way)

The animal parts look like they will be all used.

Looks like she had a good time.

Outrage not found. Meh.

I'm with you.

Just as with duck hunting, it creates a market for conservation.

Also, there is huge money to be made with most exotic hunting, and it puts a lot of pressure on poachers and supports conservation.

I would shoot a lion, if I could bring it home and eat it. Of course, I'd have to have $20,000 expendable (its probably more than that, but I'm not an exotic game hunter). The sad thing is, those who I know who hunt exotic game might get a dinner from the meat, and then they have to fly back home without the animal. Just not worth it to me.

At least the lion had a more respectable life, and had been killed in sport. Some folks may want to have a look at the industrial agriculture going on in the US.
I would have to think that this energy could be used in better ways, over demonizing a sport hunter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhlhSQ5z4V4

Sorry, I guess I just dont get all the emotion either...

Deborah K

11-27-2013, 12:20 PM

I'm with you.

Just as with duck hunting, it creates a market for conservation.

Also, there is huge money to be made with most exotic hunting, and it puts a lot of pressure on poachers and supports conservation.

I would shoot a lion, if I could bring it home and eat it. Of course, I'd have to have $20,000 expendable (its probably more than that, but I'm not an exotic game hunter). The sad thing is, those who I know who hunt exotic game might get a dinner from the meat, and then they have to fly back home without the animal. Just not worth it to me.

At least the lion had a more respectable life, and had been killed in sport. Some folks may want to have a look at the industrial agriculture going on in the US.
I would have to think that this energy could be used in better ways, over demonizing a sport hunter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhlhSQ5z4V4

Sorry, I guess I just dont get all the emotion either...

It isn't an either/or issue for me. Both are equally repugnant.

brushfire

11-27-2013, 01:20 PM

It isn't an either/or issue for me. Both are equally repugnant.

I understand. My point is that there are much greater atrocities happening, which are much more harmful on several levels. Things that are deliberately hidden from consumers.

It was also my intention to bring up the conservation benefits that come as a result of exotic game hunting. All things considered, I think that exotic game hunting creates much better conditions for the animals than if it were not to exist at all. Eliminating exotic game hunting means increasing the market for poaching, and since poachers dont pay for conservation, it leaves conditions worse off... starting to repeat myself, sorry, but its unfortunate that many folks overlook this fact.

When I do fish and hunt, I do so with the intention of respecting the animal, and that means killing it as humanely as possible. It also means utilizing as much of the animal as I reasonably can (I dont eat fish heads, and I dont make bone necklaces, but I limit waste and I dont kill for the sake of killing). The trophy thing I dont get at all, really. I'd rather take a trip to the gulf and pack my cooler with snapper, and enjoy the experience for months to come. Still, I will not deny the fact that there are many benefits due to having a market for exotic game - more so than without.

Sorry if I ramble on about the topic... I wasnt even going to post, but I'd seen this thread here and then my wife got an email with the topic. We had the same discussion - she was ready to petition, and I dont think I was effective in conveying "the big picture" with her either.

shane77m

11-27-2013, 02:43 PM

I worked at a chicken hatchery once. They use a guillotine type device with a heated blade to cut the tip of the beaks off of baby chicks. We also threw away thousands of live male chicks into a large hopper with each hatch.

The ones that survive go on to live in crowded houses where the lighting, temps, food, and water is controlled to an extent as to cause maximum growth. They get to eat and sleep in their own wastes all the while they are being pecked to death by other chickens.

The nasty things sure taste good though, when they are fried.

Game reserves are a win/win situation. Better than being stuck in a small cage or plot of land at the zoo.

On the reserve, endangered animals are given good habitat and protection from poachers. Something they are not guaranteed in the wild.

juleswin

11-27-2013, 03:06 PM

I do not particularly care for hunter or hunting but I am glad that it wasn't a female lion and the community got paid for their lion.

Deborah K

11-27-2013, 03:10 PM

I understand. My point is that there are much greater atrocities happening, which are much more harmful on several levels. Things that are deliberately hidden from consumers.

It was also my intention to bring up the conservation benefits that come as a result of exotic game hunting. All things considered, I think that exotic game hunting creates much better conditions for the animals than if it were not to exist at all. Eliminating exotic game hunting means increasing the market for poaching, and since poachers dont pay for conservation, it leaves conditions worse off... starting to repeat myself, sorry, but its unfortunate that many folks overlook this fact.

When I do fish and hunt, I do so with the intention of respecting the animal, and that means killing it as humanely as possible. It also means utilizing as much of the animal as I reasonably can (I dont eat fish heads, and I dont make bone necklaces, but I limit waste and I dont kill for the sake of killing). The trophy thing I dont get at all, really. I'd rather take a trip to the gulf and pack my cooler with snapper, and enjoy the experience for months to come. Still, I will not deny the fact that there are many benefits due to having a market for exotic game - more so than without.

Sorry if I ramble on about the topic... I wasnt even going to post, but I'd seen this thread here and then my wife got an email with the topic. We had the same discussion - she was ready to petition, and I dont think I was effective in conveying "the big picture" with her either.

I'm not emotionally invested enough to sign a petition. I just rendered my opinion on the subject(s). Her shit-eating grin - while she kneels over her kill perturbs me. Especially since I'm philosophically opposed to trophy killing. I don't consider her ilk to be hunters. Just my flea-bitten opinion.

phill4paul

11-27-2013, 04:12 PM

For fucks sake just STOP with this "It's not as bad with what YOU buy from a grocery store" Just STOP that strawman.

I buy from the farmers market. I've personally been out to those I buy from farms. Just STOP that whole shit.

There is a big difference between a "game" ,sustenance, hunter and a "trophy" hunter.

Was this lion ACTUALLY threatening a village. Doesn't seem to be the case in this one. She went there, paid a fee, and killed a lion for bragging rights with a soothed conscience of doing "good."

"GOOD" the largest of all subjectives. And that which leads many to fullfill their personal desires.

brushfire

11-27-2013, 05:01 PM

For fucks sake just STOP with this "It's not as bad with what YOU buy from a grocery store" Just STOP that strawman.
...

Was this lion ACTUALLY threatening a village. Doesn't seem to be the case in this one. She went there, paid a fee, and killed a lion for bragging rights with a soothed conscience of doing "good."

I may have missed the strawman here - it was certainly not I who was trying to make a strawman. Are are you saying that she made the strawman? Did she claim to have saved the village baby from being eaten alive by the beast? I missed that part.

Again, it still helps the lions, and the villagers, overall... It creates a market that funds self sustained conservation.
http://www.ducks.org/hunting/du-and-hunting/hunters-do-more-for-wildlife

Many of these villages dont have sh!t for resources. These animals are resources that would otherwise be poached if it wasn't for the high dollars that the bachman types bring in. Nothing strawman about it.

Ender

11-27-2013, 05:34 PM

I may have missed the strawman here - it was certainly not I who was trying to make a strawman. Are are you saying that she made the strawman? Did she claim to have saved the village baby from being eaten alive by the beast? I missed that part.

Again, it still helps the lions, and the villagers, overall... It creates a market that funds self sustained conservation.
http://www.ducks.org/hunting/du-and-hunting/hunters-do-more-for-wildlife

Many of these villages dont have sh!t for resources. These animals are resources that would otherwise be poached if it wasn't for the high dollars that the bachman types bring in. Nothing strawman about it.

So.... the West comes to Africa, takes their resources and sets in motion the disintegration of the natural habitat which destroys wildlife and then puts in place some areas where the vulnerable spices, such as the lion, can be shot by the elite for sport and the money spent by them helps keep the lion herd somehow strong and the locals happy.

How about leaving the Africans the hell alone OR helping them to restore the natural habitat around them and only shooting animals for food or if they are a danger.

Can't have that, now can we........

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 05:39 PM

How about leaving the Africans the hell alone OR helping them to restore the natural habitat around them and only shooting animals for food or if they are a danger.

Can't have that, now can we........

Maybe we should let the Africans speak for themselves.

phill4paul

11-27-2013, 05:44 PM

I may have missed the strawman here - it was certainly not I who was trying to make a strawman. Are are you saying that she made the strawman? Did she claim to have saved the village baby from being eaten alive by the beast? I missed that part.

Again, it still helps the lions, and the villagers, overall... It creates a market that funds self sustained conservation.
http://www.ducks.org/hunting/du-and-hunting/hunters-do-more-for-wildlife

Many of these villages dont have sh!t for resources. These animals are resources that would otherwise be poached if it wasn't for the high dollars that the bachman types bring in. Nothing strawman about it.

If you haven't seen the strawman then it is because you haven't chosen to. I don't think I specifically referenced you.

Stop the bullshit. You think only the rich and famous should be able to hunt these beings. Right? Money is the determining factor. No?

phill4paul

11-27-2013, 05:47 PM

Maybe we should let the Africans speak for themselves.

Maybe if we stayed out of their business, with rewards on a grand scale, they could.

Oh, and get the world community out of their shit.

shane77m

11-27-2013, 05:50 PM

Maybe we should let the Africans speak for themselves.

They seem to be saying come give us your money to hunt on our land. Just like places do here in the states.

I imagine that if it was up to some of the liberty folks on here, hunting would be banned all together.

Schifference

11-27-2013, 05:52 PM

I smile when my rabbits are ready for slaughter!

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 05:55 PM

Maybe if we stayed out of their business, with rewards on a grand scale, they could.

Oh, and get the world community out of their shit.

I see. Is this kind of like star treks first directive? How do you propose we "get the world community out of their shit"? They are part of the world.

Ender

11-27-2013, 06:22 PM

Maybe we should let the Africans speak for themselves.

You mean like the 1000's who have signed the petition to stop the lion hunting?

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 07:32 PM

You mean like the 1000's who have signed the petition to stop the lion hunting?

Or the hundreds of thousands that didn't? How many Americans would sign a petition to take away your right to own a gun?

Keith and stuff

11-27-2013, 07:58 PM

Or the hundreds of thousands that didn't?
Let's keep in mind that well over a billion people live in Africa. If less than 1% sign some nonsense, anti-libertarian/anti-conservative/pro-animal killing petition, I don't think it means much of anything.

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 08:05 PM

Let's keep in mind that well over a billion people live in Africa. If less than 1% sign some nonsense, anti-libertarian/anti-conservative/pro-animal killing petition, I don't think it means much of anything.

The petition is through Change.org. I'm fairly certain a large number of people living in Africa don't have the ability to sign or not sign online. That being said I agree with your post.

Ender

11-27-2013, 08:06 PM

Or the hundreds of thousands that didn't? How many Americans would sign a petition to take away your right to own a gun?

Come on- are you really comparing killing a vulnerable species for your own glory with gun rights?

kcchiefs6465

11-27-2013, 08:08 PM

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 08:09 PM

Come on- are you really comparing killing a vulnerable species for your own glory with gun rights?

No, merely pointing out how relevant that petition is.

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 08:14 PM

Seth MacFarlane, and Fox Broadcasting Company: Bring Brian Griffin back to Family Guy

Aaron Thompson
Petition by
Aaron Thompson
Tuscaloosa

with 102,989 supporters

Ender

11-27-2013, 08:17 PM

Let's keep in mind that well over a billion people live in Africa. If less than 1% sign some nonsense, anti-libertarian/anti-conservative/pro-animal killing petition, I don't think it means much of anything.

South Africa has a population of around 52 million; the petition had 450,000 signatures on it before the site closed it.

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 08:19 PM

South Africa has a population of around 52 million; the petition had 450,000 signatures on it before the site closed it.

I believe it was 400,000. And they were from all around the world.

(oops, 487,628 signatures)

eduardo89

11-27-2013, 08:22 PM

South Africa has a population of around 52 million; the petition had 450,000 signatures on it before the site closed it.

Even if every single one of them (I highly doubt even 10% were from SA) were South Africans signing, that's still only 0.8% of the population.

Keith and stuff

11-27-2013, 08:33 PM

with 102,989 supporters

That isn't a lot compared to the world population of over 7 billion. That said, it is annoying that their are 100K plus people that want to reduce the population of big game animals in the world. It is shameful that those folks don't care about big game animals. My guess, it is almost entirely due to ignorance :(

Origanalist

11-27-2013, 08:37 PM

That isn't a lot compared to the world population of over 7 billion. That said, it is annoying that their are 100K plus people that want to reduce the population of big game animals in the world. It is shameful that those folks don't care about big game animals. My guess, it is almost entirely due to ignorance :(

That was how many people signed the petition to "Bring Brian Griffin back to Family Guy". :rolleyes:

kcchiefs6465

11-27-2013, 08:40 PM

That was how many people signed the petition to "Bring Brian Griffin back to Family Guy". :rolleyes:
That is about the same amount that signed for the White House to release their ale recipe. You read that right. The US government brews ale. And instead of being annoyed at this squandering, the people want the recipe.

Cutlerzzz

11-27-2013, 11:48 PM

Maybe if we stayed out of their business, with rewards on a grand scale, they could.

Oh, and get the world community out of their shit.

Who is "we"? This doesn't involve the US government.

kcchiefs6465

11-28-2013, 12:55 AM

Who is "we"? This doesn't involve the US government.
You sure about that? "This" might mean this specific kill, but I'd frankly be surprised if somehow or another I am not paying for the conservation of lions.

brushfire

11-29-2013, 04:34 PM

So.... the West comes to Africa, takes their resources and sets in motion the disintegration of the natural habitat which destroys wildlife and then puts in place some areas where the vulnerable spices, such as the lion, can be shot by the elite for sport and the money spent by them helps keep the lion herd somehow strong and the locals happy.

How about leaving the Africans the hell alone OR helping them to restore the natural habitat around them and only shooting animals for food or if they are a danger.

Can't have that, now can we........

First off, the African people are killing off the lions, and doing so without having even the slightest concern for conservation - there's simply no incentive to do so. Indigenous poachers and farmers are killing them off as they occupy habitat... This is the fault of "the west"?

Then along comes some "wealthy people" (I know one who makes $150k a year) who enjoy killing animals. They pay for their tags, guides, travel, and lodging, to kill a lion or kudu. Suddenly these troublesome beasts become a valuable resource - one, that if managed, can bring lots of capital and respect to an otherwise unappreciated resource. This makes for a promising and sustainable market, for people who must otherwise compete with US government subsidized food... This is certainly hard for most folks who see lions as animals you watch at the zoo.

One thing you do say that I completely agree with, however, is that we should leave the Africans alone. Let them manage their resources as they see fit. Most Americans dont live in homes with dirt floors, and most Africans dont see the Serengeti as a large zoo that was created for their viewing pleasure.

Henry Rogue

11-29-2013, 09:34 PM

First off, the African people are killing off the lions, and doing so without having even the slightest concern for conservation - there's simply no incentive to do so. Indigenous poachers and farmers are killing them off as they occupy habitat... This is the fault of "the west"?

Then along comes some "wealthy people" (I know one who makes $150k a year) who enjoy killing animals. They pay for their tags, guides, travel, and lodging, to kill a lion or kudu. Suddenly these troublesome beasts become a valuable resource - one, that if managed, can bring lots of capital and respect to an otherwise unappreciated resource. This makes for a promising and sustainable market, for people who must otherwise compete with US government subsidized food... This is certainly hard for most folks who see lions as animals you watch at the zoo.

One thing you do say that I completely agree with, however, is that we should leave the Africans alone. Let them manage their resources as they see fit. Most Americans dont live in homes with dirt floors, and most Africans dont see the Serengeti as a large zoo that was created for their viewing pleasure.
You don't have to make that kind of money to hunt there, I know someone who works on a factory floor. He works a lot of overtime and is willing to fill in for those who want off and he pinches pennies, so he could hunt there. He drives an old beat up pickup, wild game is the only meat they eat. He and his wife hunted Africa for around 11 thousand. He hunted the Yukon, it cost him 19 thousand. It's doable if you have the passion for it and you want to live like a pauper till you save enough, they don't have kids though so that helped.