That ‘Libertarian Moment’

[cajuncocoa]

It's here. Now what?
by Justin Raimondo (http://original.antiwar.com/author/justin/), November 18, 2013
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/11/17/that-libertarian-moment/

[Petar]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.

[heavenlyboy34]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.
Neither did RP or Amash (unless I didn't hear about it).

[Petar]

Neither did RP or Amash (unless I didn't hear about it).

We can mostly thank our voices in Congress for preventing war with Syria.

[Natural Citizen]

We can mostly thank our voices in Congress for preventing war with Syria.

Hardly. What you can thank is alternative media world wide. You can bet that if mainstream corporate "news" was able to run the narrative then we (correction...they) would have been bombing the ever living shit out of them.

The people are waking up. And due to show up.

[Ender]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.


Anti Ron Paul? Hardly.

[Petar]

Hardly. What you can thank is alternative media world wide. You can bet that if mainstream corporate "news" was able to run the narrative then we (correction...they) would have been bombing the ever living shit out of them.

The people are waking up. And due to show up.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Either way we end up with good people in office; starting with our people in the GOP.

[heavenlyboy34]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Either way we end up with good people in office; starting with our people in the GOP.
I still think people should be infiltrating the dems, too. That's how the fascists took over the US system many generations ago.

[Natural Citizen]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?



Petar, I can absolutely assure you that the frying pan came last.

Besides. I'm not debating the character of people who have taken on responsibility.

[cajuncocoa]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.

There's nothing anti-Ron Paul about this article. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Justin Raimondo does lots of good as does Justin Amash. Twin Justins! :p

Just because one does not have a privileged vote on the Potomac does not automatically mean they've done less by virtue of not being elected. It's good to vote against these things if you have it, but it is better to educate the people on these issues. Governments operate based on acceptance and tolerance. It is most important to undermine these assumptions, tolerances, and acceptance, and education, illumination, and honest communication does this. This is why Ron Paul is seminal, not because he was the lone vote on some legislation. For Ron Paul supporters to not see this...and then cast aspersions on Justin R.

All this goes to say, whoever does so obviously didn't read the article. I'd rather focus my attention on self-action and communicating these important ideas to anyone who will listen than throw money at the Potomac, but I'm not going out there and incessantly telling folks who do to stop. It's good we have Justin Amash, and it's also good we have Justin Raimondo. Isn't that good enough? :p

(I still contend it's better to make yourselves the best you can be (balance of happiness and money), and improve your community instead of wasting time on things you're relatively ineffective at dealing with (e.g. National and Regional politics)) I don't need the US, I just need my small corner of freedom. (If that makes me a selfish bastard...I say to you, OPEN BORDERS...duh..)

[Rudeman]

I still think people should be infiltrating the dems, too. That's how the fascists took over the US system many generations ago.

I think infiltrating the Dems is a lot harder, but if you live in a very liberal state/district I guess it's worth a shot. Probably would have to focus on civil liberties/foreign policy, but domestic programs would be a big road block for people trying to infiltrate the Dems. How do you think people would get past that road block?

[Natural Citizen]

There's nothing anti-Ron Paul about this article. Quite the opposite, in fact.

No, there wasn't. Seems to be a knee jerk reaction these days to just pee all over libertarians. This is a mistake by the GOP establishment.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I think infiltrating the Dems is a lot harder, but if you live in a very liberal state/district I guess it's worth a shot. Probably would have to focus on civil liberties/foreign policy, but domestic programs would be a big road block for people trying to infiltrate the Dems. How do you think people would get past that road block?

The same those in the GOP get over the Neo-Con road block (WAR WAR WAR ISRAEL ISRAEL ISRAEL)? There are liberty-Dems in NH, for instance. Though surely, some areas of the country are just a non-bo no matter what party for libertarians. I happen to live in one of those states atm...luckily the weather is nice, the women are gorgeous, and it is temporary. :p

[FindLiberty]

Going undercover into R/D camps is not the biggest problem, the Libertarian needs to also act stupid (but not unelectable) and also pretend to be a statist in order to get along and remain unnoticed.

Try to avoid this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo)

[cajuncocoa]

Going undercover into R/D camps is not the biggest problem, the Libertarian needs to also act stupid (but not unelectable) and also pretend to be a statist in order to get along and remain unnoticed.

Try to avoid this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo)The best role for libertarians is education....not pretending to be statists. If we can manage to educate a significant number of voters, the rest will take care of itself (so long as political candidates follow our lead).

[phill4paul]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.

Cool story.

[phill4paul]

The best role for libertarians is education....not pretending to be statists. If we can manage to educate a significant number of voters, the rest will take care of itself (so long as political candidates follow our lead).

Yes.

[Natural Citizen]

The best role for libertarians is education

This is actually happening. Large scale too. Aside from the aspect of education, I think a very damaging misconception that establishment folks possess is that because they are getting mainstream attention that all of a sudden people are supporting them. The fact is that mainstream media needs these folks to remain relevant themselves but the fact remains that at the end of the day, what you hear as far as discussion on the issues is very, very shallow. And people know this. Alternative media is making them look foolish.

[BuddyRey]

Bump!

[twomp]

There's nothing anti-Ron Paul about this article. Quite the opposite, in fact.
To the Team Read cheerleaders on this forum, the mere mention of the word "Libertarian" now means Anti-Ron Paul. It's their last line of defense to herd the sheep back into the 2 party system.

[Natural Citizen]

To the Team Read cheerleaders on this forum, the mere mention of the word "Libertarian" now means Anti-Ron Paul. It's their last line of defense to herd the sheep back into the 2 party system.

I don't think it's very fair to use Ron as some sort of prop against a demograph that is, for the most part, a product of his philosophies. But, yes. I do see this meme being thrown around a lot more now that if you're not in line with mainstream GOP then you're anti Ron Paul. I never thought that people were trustees in Ron Paul as much as they were trustees in the same principles that he followed and suggested. To say "anti Ron Paul" solicits the notion that this was all about Ron . It wasn't. He just led by example.

[cajuncocoa]

I don't think it's very fair to use Ron as some sort of prop against a demograph that is, for the most part, a product of his philosophies.

I agree; that's why I don't understand why Petar declared this as "anti-Ron Paul" in the first place.

[heavenlyboy34]

I think infiltrating the Dems is a lot harder, but if you live in a very liberal state/district I guess it's worth a shot. Probably would have to focus on civil liberties/foreign policy, but domestic programs would be a big road block for people trying to infiltrate the Dems. How do you think people would get past that road block?
Same way you get road blocks in the GOP. You just have to use the appropriate rhetoric/tone. Read up on propaganda. It works.

[cajuncocoa]

Same way you get road blocks in the GOP. You just have to use the appropriate rhetoric/tone. Read up on propaganda. It works.

I don't really support the idea of using propaganda; it's disingenuous...therefore, whatever gains we would make won't last. We have to educate both sides as to why their worst ideas are wrong.

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[cajuncocoa]

Forget educating the voters - by the time they're voting they're already lost (as evidenced by every election I've experienced). Liberty can't really be taught - it rubs off by contact and example. Volunteer some time with the young - if you can get them to live liberty there'll be no need to resort to the violence of the ballot box. Plus, it's more fun to deal with the young than it is to deal with the sociopaths who pass themselves off as candidates acting in your best interests.

Good idea! +rep

[Natural Citizen]

I agree; that's why I don't understand why Petar declared this as "anti-Ron Paul" in the first place.

I wouldn't concern myself too much with it. I think you explained clearly what folks of the libertarian pesruasion need to do and that is to continue to educate others in a manner that is reflective of Ron's principles as opposed to just saying follow me because...uh...Ron Paul.

[Petar]

I wouldn't concern myself too much with it. I think you explained clearly what folks of the libertarian pesruasion need to do and that is to continue to educate others in a manner that is reflective of Ron's principles as opposed to just saying follow me because...uh...Ron Paul.


Anti Ron Paul? Hardly.


There's nothing anti-Ron Paul about this article. Quite the opposite, in fact.


To the Team Read cheerleaders on this forum, the mere mention of the word "Libertarian" now means Anti-Ron Paul. It's their last line of defense to herd the sheep back into the 2 party system.


I agree; that's why I don't understand why Petar declared this as "anti-Ron Paul" in the first place.


I wouldn't concern myself too much with it. I think you explained clearly what folks of the libertarian pesruasion need to do and that is to continue to educate others in a manner that is reflective of Ron's principles as opposed to just saying follow me because...uh...Ron Paul.

Those of you who are working against Ron Paul's political efforts to gain leadership positions within the GOP are working against Ron Paul. [mod edit- remove side debate topic as it's off-topic for this thread. Thanks.]

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

[Peace&Freedom]

I think infiltrating the Dems is a lot harder, but if you live in a very liberal state/district I guess it's worth a shot. Probably would have to focus on civil liberties/foreign policy, but domestic programs would be a big road block for people trying to infiltrate the Dems. How do you think people would get past that road block?

I suggest it is not that difficult, especially if you avoid fruitless "infiltrating" of the Dems and just take advantage of an open Democratic seat when it emerges. Field some Ron Paul Democrats as candidates from the activists established through the local Paul/CFL meetup universe, or failing that, work with area LP people to field Libertarians willing to run for the Democratic nomination.

Also stay in touch with (un-coopted) Tea Party factions in the area, and determine what will motivate them to 'primary' a TP-friendly candidate into office. When an opening in a heavily Democratic district emerges (incumbent retiring, engulfed in a fatal sex scandal, etc), draw on this CFL/LP/TP network to get a liberty Democrat nominated in the primary, who should then move on to easily win the election. That's how we can work both sides of the 2 party paradigm, and more efficiently replace the statists currently in place.

[SilentBull]

The best role for libertarians is education....not pretending to be statists. If we can manage to educate a significant number of voters, the rest will take care of itself (so long as political candidates follow our lead).

That's where your problem lies. You think you can turn a majority of voters into pure libertarians. Good luck with that.

[CaptLouAlbano]

That's where your problem lies. You think you can turn a majority of voters into pure libertarians. Good luck with that.

Exactly. Truth is, one couldn't turn a majority of self professed libertarians into "pure libertarians" since the definition of purity lies in the hands of the one defining it.

[angelatc]

I still think people should be infiltrating the dems, too. That's how the fascists took over the US system many generations ago.


We don't even have the numbers to take over the GOP. And people here cry and go home the first time party officials bare their teeth at them. The Democrats would eat them alive. They're a lot meaner.

[cajuncocoa]

That's where your problem lies. You think you can turn a majority of voters into pure libertarians. Good luck with that.
And the alternative is....what? To pretend we are statists so our candidates can get elected and make temporary gains (at best)?

[Petar]

And the alternative is....what? To pretend we are statists so our candidates can get elected and make temporary gains (at best)?

How about you stop pretending that you support Ron Paul as long as you are against "statists" trying to win leadership positions within the GOP.

[CaptLouAlbano]

And the alternative is....what? To pretend we are statists so our candidates can get elected and make temporary gains (at best)?

Who says, other than you, that it is an either/or?

[angelatc]

I think infiltrating the Dems is a lot harder, but if you live in a very liberal state/district I guess it's worth a shot. Probably would have to focus on civil liberties/foreign policy, but domestic programs would be a big road block for people trying to infiltrate the Dems. How do you think people would get past that road block?

The first step is raising money, then using it to win an election.

[angelatc]

That's where your problem lies. You think you can turn a majority of voters into pure libertarians. Good luck with that.


I think that if the LP educates enough people on economic issues that they decide to become Republican then they're still doing us a favor.

[cajuncocoa]

I think that if the LP educates enough people on economic issues that they decide to become Republican then they're still doing us a favor.
Point of clarification: I wasn't necessarily speaking of the LP as an education tool. I was calling for any and all liberty activists to take up the task of educating (rather than giving a pass on anti-liberty positions on issues for the sole purpose of getting elected). I know many disagree with that approach, but IMO we do a disservice to our cause when we overlook certain things where "our" candidates are concerned. I would also add that there is much more to liberty than economic issues.

[CaptLouAlbano]

rather than giving a pass on anti-liberty positions on issues for the sole purpose of getting elected.

Based upon who's determination?

Your statement as a whole suggests that you are looking for purity before a candidate is deemed worthy of support. If that was the case, then Massie should not get our support in 2014 since he voted, along with the statists, for the Farm Bill.

[angelatc]

Point of clarification: I wasn't necessarily speaking of the LP as an education tool. I was calling for any and all liberty activists to take up the task of educating (rather than giving a pass on anti-liberty positions on issues for the sole purpose of getting elected). I know many disagree with that approach, but IMO we do a disservice to our cause when we overlook certain things where "our" candidates are concerned. I would also add that there is much more to liberty than economic issues.


I don't think any activism is useless, and I think my tireless defense of the sign wavers gives me forum cred on that. It's better than doing absolutely nothing, since it serves to at least keep people on the fringes of politics aware.

Ron Paul was a unique blend - he managed to win elections while educating people. If we could bottle his formula we would rule the world - mhua ha ha ha ha!!!!

[cajuncocoa]

I don't think any activism is useless, and I think my tireless defense of the sign wavers gives me forum cred on that. It's better than doing absolutely nothing, since it serves to at least keep people on the fringes of politics aware.

Ron Paul was a unique blend - he managed to win elections while educating people. If we could bottle his formula we would rule the world - mhua ha ha ha ha!!!!Agreed...and if we could bottle his formula, we would certainly have a much better, safer world.

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't think any activism is useless, and I think my tireless defense of the sign wavers gives me forum cred on that. It's better than doing absolutely nothing, since it serves to at least keep people on the fringes of politics aware.

Ron Paul was a unique blend - he managed to win elections while educating people. If we could bottle his formula we would rule the world - mhua ha ha ha ha!!!!
Yeah, in his own district. Beyond that, it was an educational campaign. I think that "formula" needs tweaking if we hope to use it outside of Texas.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Yeah, in his own district. Beyond that, it was an educational campaign. I think that "formula" needs tweaking if we hope to use it outside of Texas.

Truth be told, he never really ran in his own district on a libertarian purist platform.

[heavenlyboy34]

Truth be told, he never really ran in his own district on a libertarian purist platform.
Yes, thanks for that correction. :)

[Petar]

Agreed...and if we could bottle his formula, we would certainly have a much better, safer world.

Why don't you start by supporting his political strategy if you wanna "bottle his formula"?

After that you can start work on getting our people into the GOP.

[cajuncocoa]

Why don't you start by supporting his political strategy if you wanna "bottle his formula"?

After that you can start work on getting our people into the GOP.I'm not going to be getting anyone into the GOP (necessarily). My plan is, as I said, getting as many people educated about the concept of liberty. How they plan to vote, and in which party, will be up to them after that. There is nothing about that which is counter to Ron Paul's political strategy. In fact, he educated quite a lot of people...many of whom are right here. Time to pay it forward.

[angelatc]

Truth be told, he never really ran in his own district on a libertarian purist platform.


No but he managed to win the support of the majority of the libertarian purists.

HB - so all we need is one of those people in each district, right?

[CaptLouAlbano]

My plan is, as I said, getting as many people educated about the concept of liberty. How they plan to vote, and in which party, will be up to them after that.

How do you plan on doing that?

[SilentBull]

And the alternative is....what? To pretend we are statists so our candidates can get elected and make temporary gains (at best)?

No, it's framing our message a certain way so that people will listen to us. And you do that by understanding who your audience is. We have to understand what our audience cares about, and work on that. Also, most people will resist big changes, so we can be more gradual in our approach to things when selling our message. I like to use foreign aid as an example. Tell a regular Republican we should end all foreign aid, and they think the world is going to end if we do. But ask them why we are giving aid to people who hate us, like Rand Paul has done, and they start questioning whether our aid is doing more harm than good. Now you have people thinking about foreign aid in a different way. Once you can get them to agree on that, it becomes a lot easier to get them to question all the other aid that we provide. That's not pretending to be statists. That's gradually introducing people to our views by starting with things that we know they will agree with us on.

[CaptLouAlbano]

No, it's framing our message a certain way so that people will listen to us. And you do that by understanding who your audience is. We have to understand what our audience cares about, and work on that. Also, most people will resist big changes, so we can be more gradual in our approach to things when selling our message. I like to use foreign aid as an example. Tell a regular Republican we should end all foreign aid, and they think the world is going to end if we do. But ask them why we are giving aid to people who hate us, like Rand Paul has done, and they start questioning whether our aid is doing more harm than good. Now you have people thinking about foreign aid in a different way. Once you can get them to agree on that, it becomes a lot easier to get them to question all the other aid that we provide. That's not pretending to be statists. That's gradually introducing people to our views by starting with things that we know they will agree with us on.

Exactly.

And the fundamental flaws of most LP candidates and many libertarian activists is that they force their issues on people rather than finding out what issues are important to the voters and working from there to offer libertarian solutions to those issues.

[SilentBull]

No, it's framing our message a certain way so that people will listen to us. And you do that by understanding who your audience is. We have to understand what our audience cares about, and work on that. Also, most people will resist big changes, so we can be more gradual in our approach to things when selling our message. I like to use foreign aid as an example. Tell a regular Republican we should end all foreign aid, and they think the world is going to end if we do. But ask them why we are giving aid to people who hate us, like Rand Paul has done, and they start questioning whether our aid is doing more harm than good. Now you have people thinking about foreign aid in a different way. Once you can get them to agree on that, it becomes a lot easier to get them to question all the other aid that we provide. That's not pretending to be statists. That's gradually introducing people to our views by starting with things that we know they will agree with us on.

Also, keep in mind that many libertarians have an INTJ personality. Male INTJs are only 2% of the population. Even less females are. The number of people who respond to the way Ron Paul sold his message is quite small. A different strategy is needed for the rest of the population. Rand Paul's strategy.

[pcosmar]

The Democrats would eat them alive. They're a lot meaner.

R and D paradigm Us v Them.

I really don't see any difference.

I am an Independent and see no reason to join the Alliance.

[Contumacious]

Justin Romando never stopped any wars; Justin Amash on the other hand... Go preach your anti Ron Paul message somewhere else. We are busy following his lead in gaining leadership of the GOP.

HUH?


"The Ron Paul movement, today, is Rothbard’s legacy: a broad-based truly mass movement, by traditional libertarian standards, that is in total agreement with the key “sixth point.” Even when talking about economic issues, such as the debt, Ron Paul invariably brings in foreign policy by pointing out that we could retire the debt if only we’d give up the Empire."

Anti Ron Paul? Why?

.

[angelatc]

HUH?



Anti Ron Paul? Why?

.

He wrote some stuff in the past. And we have a lot of eidetic memories in our population. I am not saying that's always a bad thing.

[CaptLouAlbano]

R and D paradigm Us v Them.

I really don't see any difference.

I am an Independent and see no reason to join the Alliance.

Have you ever attended GOP and Dem committee and/or club meetings? Are you basing your opinion on experience?

[heavenlyboy34]

No but he managed to win the support of the majority of the libertarian purists.

HB - so all we need is one of those people in each district, right?
You mean a "libertarian purist" who wins in each district? It seems so, if you believe electoral politics is the way to go.

[angelatc]

No, it's framing our message a certain way so that people will listen to us. .


This is very true, but in return you have to be willing to listen to them, also.

[CaptLouAlbano]

You mean a "libertarian purist" who wins in each district? It seems so, if you believe electoral politics is the way to go.

Which would go back to the question: pure under who's standard?

[angelatc]

You mean a "libertarian purist" who wins in each district? It seems so, if you believe electoral politics is the way to go.

I said
Ron Paul was a unique blend - he managed to win elections while educating people. If we could bottle his formula we would rule the world - mhua ha ha ha ha!!!!

I don't think there is such a thing as a Libertarian purist. I meant that if we could find one person in each district who could win elections while simultaneously educating people, we would rule the world.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I meant that if we could find one person in each district who could win elections while simultaneously educating people, we would rule the world.

I'd be happy with 288.

[Contumacious]

I said

I don't think there is such a thing as a Libertarian purist. I meant that if we could find one person in each district who could win elections while simultaneously educating people, we would rule the world.

Incorrect.

Most people do NOT want to be educated. They want to be fed and insured - the more freebies the better.

Elizabeth Warren by a landslide.

.

[Peace&Freedom]

Exactly.

And the fundamental flaws of most LP candidates and many libertarian activists is that they force their issues on people rather than finding out what issues are important to the voters and working from there to offer libertarian solutions to those issues.

Most LP candidates in fact do NOT force their issues when they do a serious campaign (educational or otherwise) but I agree on engaging voters on the issues they are concerned about, while presenting them libertarian solutions. There is a relevant role for being a 'market maker' for issues that need to be part of the conversation, as much of the time the public doesn't know how certain things bear on the issue of their concern.

E.g., discussion of taxes is incomplete without talking about the "inflation tax" created by the Fed, which is why Ron Paul "forced" that issue into the Presidential primary races. It's hard to balance the budget if you are invading and occupying the world, and spending a near trillion each year for military empire. It's hard to fight serious crime if you're wasting resources fighting an unconstitutional Drug War, and so on.

It's not being excessively 'purist' to demand at least a bare core of positions that will characterize the "liberty" movement, otherwise it just collapses into another compromised puddle of the GOP movement. Ending the Fed or bankster domination, non-intervention, restoring civil liberties, and constitutional compliance should be the bare minimum stances we expect from liberty candidates and activists.

[cajuncocoa]

No, it's framing our message a certain way so that people will listen to us. And you do that by understanding who your audience is. We have to understand what our audience cares about, and work on that. Also, most people will resist big changes, so we can be more gradual in our approach to things when selling our message. I like to use foreign aid as an example. Tell a regular Republican we should end all foreign aid, and they think the world is going to end if we do. But ask them why we are giving aid to people who hate us, like Rand Paul has done, and they start questioning whether our aid is doing more harm than good. Now you have people thinking about foreign aid in a different way. Once you can get them to agree on that, it becomes a lot easier to get them to question all the other aid that we provide. That's not pretending to be statists. That's gradually introducing people to our views by starting with things that we know they will agree with us on.

This approach is a good one. My comment with regard to "pretending to be statists" was specifically directed at someone earlier in the thread who said we should do just that.
Going undercover into R/D camps is not the biggest problem, the Libertarian needs to also act stupid (but not unelectable) and also pretend to be a statist in order to get along and remain unnoticed.

Try to avoid this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEStsLJZhzo)

[angelatc]

Incorrect.

Most people do NOT want to be educated. They want to be fed and insured - the more freebies the better.

Elizabeth Warren by a landslide.

.

It wasn't meant as a serious strategy plan. The point was that Ron Paul managed to both win elections and educate people. That's all.

[angelatc]

I'd be happy with 288.

It's like collecting ballot signatures. You gotta have a lot more than the minimum amount because some of them will end up being bogus.

[pcosmar]

Have you ever attended GOP and Dem committee and/or club meetings? Are you basing your opinion on experience?

Yes
I have mostly voted "R" through my lifetime.
They seem to have had the best lies at the time,,, but in over 40 years of observation,, I am getting real tired of the lies. (I'm 56)

And I spoke with Ron at the Mackinac Conference. In a quiet private setting. I believe him to be an anomaly.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/2007/09/ron-paul-on-mackinac-island.html

[CaptLouAlbano]

Yes
I have mostly voted "R" through my lifetime.
They seem to have had the best lies at the time,,, but in over 40 years of observation,, I am getting real tired of the lies. (I'm 56)

And I spoke with Ron at the Mackinac Conference. In a quiet private setting. I believe him to be an anomaly.

From my personal experience going to events of both parties, I find that libertarian principles are far more palatable to those who embrace a small government philosophy. The Dems I have encountered want a government solution to every issue, the Republicans on the other hand like free market solutions, which are more in line with the ideology and philosophy I hold to.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It's like collecting ballot signatures. You gotta have a lot more than the minimum amount because some of them will end up being bogus.

I went veto proof, but I gotcha

[Petar]

I'm not going to be getting anyone into the GOP (necessarily). My plan is, as I said, getting as many people educated about the concept of liberty. How they plan to vote, and in which party, will be up to them after that. There is nothing about that which is counter to Ron Paul's political strategy. In fact, he educated quite a lot of people...many of whom are right here. Time to pay it forward.

Bullshit, you are going to continue to go against Ron Paul and discourage people from helping him with his stated goal; to get our people into positions of power within the GOP.

[twomp]

Bullshit, you are going to continue to go against Ron Paul and discourage people from helping him with his stated goal; to get our people into positions of power within the GOP.

His "stated goal" is to bring liberty to our republic. His TOOL is the GOP. We can achieve his GOAL without using the same TOOL he does. Get it right instead of just saying do what Ron Paul says because Ron Paul says so. Quit being a sheep and think for yourself. Quit trying to herd people back into your 2 party system.

Since when did not taking Ron Paul's word as the word of god become "working against Ron Paul." The GOP would be proud of your knee-jerk reaction to this.

[Petar]

His "stated goal" is to bring liberty to our republic. His TOOL is the GOP. We can achieve his GOAL without using the same TOOL he does. Get it right instead of just saying do what Ron Paul says because Ron Paul says so. Quit being a sheep and think for yourself. Quit trying to herd people back into your 2 party system.

Since when did not taking Ron Paul's word as the word of god become "working against Ron Paul." The GOP would be proud of your knee-jerk reaction to this.

Either way it is still currently his goal.

[twomp]

Either way it is still currently his goal.

No it's not. If his goal is to get to McDonald's and his tool is the bus. It doesn't mean you can't get to McDonald's without using a bus. It baffles me that I have to explain to you what a 5 year old could easily understand.

[angelatc]

His "stated goal" is to bring liberty to our republic. His TOOL is the GOP. We can achieve his GOAL without using the same TOOL he does.

Well, you can try....

[twomp]

Well, you can try....

Apparently if I do, I'm "anti-Ron Paul" these days.

[angelatc]

Apparently if I do, I'm "anti-Ron Paul" these days.

Let's just say that riding the bus is a lot faster than walking, even if you have to sit with a couple of smelly people along the way. And you're less likely to get hit by that bus, too.

[cajuncocoa]

Let's just say that riding the bus is a lot faster than walking, even if you have to sit with a couple of smelly people along the way. And you're less likely to get hit by that bus, too.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other in the pursuit of liberty. Infiltrating the GOP is faster; educating is longer-lasting. If we do both, maybe we can save this thing.

[pcosmar]

The Dems I have encountered want a government solution to every issue, the Republicans on the other hand like free market solutions, which are more in line with the ideology and philosophy I hold to.

Well,,It seems to me that nearly everyone wants a government solution.

Even those that claim to support the 2nd amendment,, want more police or police powers to keep guns out of someone else's hand.
More laws to enforce their idea of morality.

And for those others (D's),, I would show them the Free Market at work,, Say,, Shakedown street at a Dead Concert.
No Regulation,, No Tax,, and really no rules,, Goods and services exchanged for money,, and charity is evident. (free food for those who need it) The community looking after each other.

This will work on a larger scale,, if allowed to be.