Libertarians changing their minds?

[Noodles]

http://www.libertyforall.net/?p=724

I think this is just sour grapes. Also, if their funds have sunk as low as they say, then 1 of 2 things is happening:

1) They have really lousy bank accounts
2) Ron Pauls 2Q numbers are going to sizzle.

I'll take door number 2, please.

[Wyurm]

he should be able to realize that once (I dont like saying if) Ron Paul gets elected, people will want a more freedom minded party. For now though, we have to do what we have to do, and we can't do that in the LP.

[UCFGavin]

i think the guy is being incredibly selfish. trying to say "don't support him, he isn't one of us. he doesn't have a chance of winning, so support us"

[BLS]

I left him a piece of my mind.

Sean,

It's articles like yours that promote the thoughts that Ron Paul has no chance of winning. Do you know how many people I've talked to that say, I really like what he's saying, but he'll never win.

First it was, nobody knows him. Now they do.

Then is was he wants to run from the Terrorist, or he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Now people know he's citing credible sources such as the 9/11 report and CIA reports.

Then it was..well, he doesn't have any money.
July 1st, I believe he'll be over $5,000,000 and that would put him firmly in the race.

Guys like you, as much as I hate to see these kinds of articles, are actually helping Ron Paul win us over, one at a time. Because people are rallying, and naysayers just motivate believers.

[Noodles]

Good idea. I actually hated posting the link, because I probably gave his website more traffic than it's ever had before.:rolleyes:

I don't know how to research these things, but it would be interesting to know how much of a "Noodles Bump" he just got.:D

[angrydragon]

What’s worse, in the blind rush to support this Champion of Liberty, I see little so far to indicate we will we better off when this campaign has run its course.

What? Blind support of Ron Paul?

I think many of us have researched Ron Paul before supporting him.

Or heard him on the debates, tv and radio shows, and thought Ron was a sane and rational person.

Or like me, have been following Ron Paul for many years.

[mdh]

My reply:

Your defeatist attitude is unhelpful to anyone. Some people, it seems, come to the LP to languish in defeat. To seek sympathy among like-minded friends as loss after loss are recorded. I've been around the LP long enough to understand a simple fact - for national offices, third parties have a near-impossible chance winning. Ron Paul's campaign as a Republican changes that. We won't be running Ron Paul ballot access drives. We won't be clamoring at how angsty we feel about how he can't get into the big debates. He's got ballot access. He's in the big debates.

All of the disadvantages that we as LP folk traditionally complain about and tout as our reasons for not being victorious are gone in the case of Dr. Paul's campaign. And make no mistake, he is one of us. So he's given us this opportunity now, and it's up to us to make something of it. If he's elected, it's because we helped to show people what this platform we've been talking for years is all about, and gave them a candidate they could vote for in the real world. If he isn't, it's because we failed. Not because of ballot access. Not because of exclusion from the big debates.

Positive attitudes and hard work will get us there. Defeatism and "what'd he ever do for me..." won't. After all, what's the last thing any politician - even one on an LP ticket - ever did for you?

[angelatc]

Poor kid - he still has acne.

[LibertyEagle]

All I can say is... what A DOOFUS.

[Original_Intent]

My response:

Sean,

Principle before party. Saving our nation should be take a back seat to "building your party".

I have had conversations with LP leadership and Constitution Party leadership here in Utah and they pretty much said what you did - "Yes Dr. Paul is what the country needs, but we have to think about building our own party."

How about this concept? (I suggested the same to the Constitution Party) What kind of news would it make if the LP or the CP OFFICIALLY backed Ron Paul? I think you both are missing a HUGE recruitment opportunity by showing that principle matters more to you than your party. Yes people are registering Republican to support Ron Paul in the primaries, but do you think those people would not remember a third party stepping out of their "kingdom building" mindset and supported a candidate from another party?

[LibertyEagle]

Original_intent

Great point. It's irritating the ever lovin' heck out of me that people are more tied to their dang "Party" than they are their COUNTRY! I expected it from the Republicrats, but NOT the Libertarian and Constitution parties.

[Highmesa]

My reply:

Your defeatist attitude is unhelpful to anyone. Some people, it seems, come to the LP to languish in defeat. To seek sympathy among like-minded friends as loss after loss are recorded. I've been around the LP long enough to understand a simple fact - for national offices, third parties have a near-impossible chance winning. Ron Paul's campaign as a Republican changes that. We won't be running Ron Paul ballot access drives. We won't be clamoring at how angsty we feel about how he can't get into the big debates. He's got ballot access. He's in the big debates.

All of the disadvantages that we as LP folk traditionally complain about and tout as our reasons for not being victorious are gone in the case of Dr. Paul's campaign. And make no mistake, he is one of us. So he's given us this opportunity now, and it's up to us to make something of it. If he's elected, it's because we helped to show people what this platform we've been talking for years is all about, and gave them a candidate they could vote for in the real world. If he isn't, it's because we failed. Not because of ballot access. Not because of exclusion from the big debates.

Positive attitudes and hard work will get us there. Defeatism and "what'd he ever do for me..." won't. After all, what's the last thing any politician - even one on an LP ticket - ever did for you?

mdh,

This is so true. I've been around the LP long enough to have already voted for Dr. Paul for President. I've heard the word "libertairian" in the media more in the past couple of months than in the past decade. The farther we can take this run, the better it is for at least the libertarian ideal, and probably for the party itself. I've already had this discussion on our state's LP message board - some agreed with me, some did not.

I feel like I can once again call myself a libertarain without quickly assessing whether the person I'm talking to is either thinking I'm nuts or stupid. RP is telling the world 95% of what we've been saying amongst urselves for years. I'd much rather be defending Dr. Paul's position than starting from ground zero in explaining what liberty means - and believe me, the bulk of this country has no idea any more.

[LibertyEagle]

What do you think of contacting your respective parties and asking them if they would consider throwing their support to Ron Paul? That means going all the way and asking their members to hold their noses, register as Republicans if their state requires it, and voting in the primary.

IF he does not win the primary, they have plenty of time before the election to get people on board for their backup candidates. I know a lot of us would look kindly on those Parties who looked beyond themselves for the good of the country.

[Original_Intent]

As I said, already done. I contacted the national CP months ago and never heard back (I did this based on the fact that Ron Paul was leading on their onsite poll even before Dr. Paul announced with 55% of the vote!)

I met with the Utah LP and Utah CP leaders at our first Ron Paul Meetup in SLC. They came to say they support Ron Paul in principle, but need to concentrate on strengthening their own parties.

However, LOTS of people making the suggestion might cause them to rethink that position. The CP especially has a motto of "Principle, not Politics" it would be a great way for them to show it is not an empty slogan.

[mdh]

Most LP folks I know are behind Dr. Paul for president. Of course, there are still other races where we can run LP candidates, both national offices and state/local.

[specsaregood]

//

[Original_Intent]

I might suggest that state/any local LP candidates should attend RP meetups and support Ron Paul. Thats an active group of voters with similar views; I would think working with them would be a good idea for their own campaign. Ride RP's coattails.

EXACTLY! Good point!

[kaligula]

LP.ORG Home Page Headlines:

"Democrat and Republican Affiliation Drops While Libertarian Party Numbers Surge"

[AZ Libertarian]

They accepted my comment, but won't post it....

[torchbearer]

My response:

Sean,

Principle before party. Saving our nation should be take a back seat to "building your party".

I have had conversations with LP leadership and Constitution Party leadership here in Utah and they pretty much said what you did - "Yes Dr. Paul is what the country needs, but we have to think about building our own party."

How about this concept? (I suggested the same to the Constitution Party) What kind of news would it make if the LP or the CP OFFICIALLY backed Ron Paul? I the LP is think you both are missing a HUGE recruitment opportunity by showing that principle matters more to you than your party. Yes people are registering Republican to support Ron Paul in the primaries, but do you think those people would not remember a third party stepping out of their "kingdom building" mindset and supported a candidate from another party?


The LP isn't controlled by a single person, or even a handful of people. The national committee doesn't really have much control. the state LPs have more authority...
I want to make a motion for louisiana libertarians to endorse ron paul, but i will have 11 other people in our central committee room that will have to agree to do so.. or at least 5 others.
The arguement I will get against endorsing Ron Paul is that in our bi-laws its states we can only endorse libertarian candidates. We'd have to change that bi-law and that is a whole other fight in itself.

[torchbearer]

Oh, and Libertarian Party of Louisiana is heading up a lot of ron paul meet-ups in different areas of the state because we are already organized in those areas... especially the lake charles area.

Another question- does ron paul want our endorsement? i've had pro-ron paul libertarians tell me that ron paul wouldn't even acknowledge our endorsement because he is running as a republican and the LP endorsing him will give them ammo to say he is just a libertarian mole we planted to hijack the GOP... which is a really good idea... but that kind of thought would only hurt ron paul's chances...
so-
would it hurt ron paul with the republican base to get an endorsement from a party he formerly ran for president...?

[Original_Intent]

ooohh, good point that I hadn't thought of. Although the same doesn't hold true for the Constitution Party.

[mikelovesgod]

Oh, and Libertarian Party of Louisiana is heading up a lot of ron paul meet-ups in different areas of the state because we are already organized in those areas... especially the lake charles area.

Another question- does ron paul want our endorsement? i've had pro-ron paul libertarians tell me that ron paul wouldn't even acknowledge our endorsement because he is running as a republican and the LP endorsing him will give them ammo to say he is just a libertarian mole we planted to hijack the GOP... which is a really good idea... but that kind of thought would only hurt ron paul's chances...
so-
would it hurt ron paul with the republican base to get an endorsement from a party he formerly ran for president...?

I don't think the endorsement would hurt, I think promoting him as a libertarian and not a republican would.

[BravoSix]

I don't think the endorsement would hurt, I think promoting him as a libertarian and not a republican would.

Agreed, especially since a good portion of the interviews and discussions I have seen with / about Ron Paul mentions that he ran as President as a Libertarian.

[kevinh-SD]

While I would rather have LP and CP inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in, it doesn't really matter.

LP and CP should listen to their own market place. Lay Low, call it a "rebuilding year" and get ready to nominate a paper candidate. If donations are down, then do things that don't cost money.

If Ron Paul doesn't do well in the Aug 11th straw poll, and he can't gain traction in fundraising (which apparently he has) and his polling numbers (in polls where hes included) don't begin to improve, then the LP and CP have a point, and I, for one, will return to the party I came from.

But for now, I am an RPer 1st. This has a chance to work. It won't cost much, and many disillusioned Republicans (who thought the GOP finally had a chance to return to the constitution) will probably come with me.

The reason Downsize DC (DD) was doing so well, is that it was getting somewhere. but it is a strategy that can be put on hold for a few months. If Ron Paul gets the GOP shaft, then I will probably donate to DD again. If Ron Paul makes the GOP eat it, then I will continue to support Ron Paul, and DD can just wait a year. I will continue to send messages through their system, but Ron Paul is going to get my financial support.

It is clear to me (and should be clear to anyone paying attention) that a 3rd party (regardless of the party) will almost never work (maybe with lots of money, but Ross Perot had that, and still didn't get enough (and don't give me that BS about Ross Perot electing Clinton, 80% of the Reform Vote would have had to go to Bush the elder in that election in order for the GOP to win).

The GOP and DEMS have it almost all sown up.

It's not just the rules, the MSM and the money, it's the sheeple's minds. A good 30-40% of the electorate votes simply based on party label. That is just too juicy to pass up. Also, if Ron Paul can win the GOP nomination, then he will gain the benefit of the rules, the MSM, and the Money.

So register Republican, and vote Ron Paul in the Primary. Keep giving your money to the LP, CP, DD if that is what makes you feel good. As for me, I will support what works, as long as it works.

[Bradley in DC]

Everyone out there is a potential Ron Paul supporter. Let's follow Dr. Paul's example and win them over with kindness.

Besides, Dr. Paul never gave up his lifetime membership in the LP!

[Shmuel Spade]

The irony, someone from the LP trying to convince people that a vote for a libertarian is throwing your vote away. Have the LP members ask themselves, "Out of all of the presidential elections in my life have the winners been either (D)/(R) or (L)? What? There's never been an (L) POTUS? It's always (D)/(R)!? Is that likely to change this year?" No. Odds are it's going to be a (D)/(R) win yet again. If a real (L) in the (R) party has a shot we should be supporting a chance for victory.

And the LP shouldn't despair so much, as has already been pointed out the very word "libertarian" is getting more mention now than in the last 35 years, and that's due to Rep. Paul. I personally am going to vote straight LP in 2008 and Ron Paul for POTUS. That means LP for Senate, LP for Congress, LP for governor, LP for state Senate, LP for State Congress, LP for any and everything other than POTUS.