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AuH20
11-06-2013, 02:26 PM
So with the more guns you buy, the more racist you're likely to become? Before you know it, you'll be walking around the house like this guy.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/assets/Grand%20Wizard%20Lockwood%20Smith.jpg


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/gun-ownership-racism_n_4220727.html


That's what researchers found in a study published by the journal Plos One, which linked racial prejudice to firearm ownership in America.

A research team led by Dr. Kerry O’Brien, a professor of behavioral studies at Australia's Monash University, examined attitudes about gun control and race using data from the American National Election Study, a survey conducted before and after presidential elections.

The researchers found that "for each 1 point increase in symbolic racism there was a 50% increase in the odds of having a gun at home," as well as "a 28% increase in support for permits to carry concealed handguns."

To measure levels of prejudice, the team asked survey participants questions that measured both symbolic racism, defined as "a belief structure underpinned by both anti-black affect and traditional values," and implicit racial attitudes, which are more subtle associations about people of different races. For example, in the symbolic racism section, participants were asked, "“How well does the word ‘violent’ describe most blacks?” on a scale of 1 to 5.

Participants were also shown statements from the Symbolic Racism Scale, such as "Generations of slavery and discrimination have created conditions that make it difficult for blacks to work their way out of the lower class," and asked to what extent they agreed.

The study noted that whites are twice as likely to own guns as blacks, and oppose gun control to a far greater extent. Unsurprisingly, "stronger Republican identification, being from a southern state and anti-government sentiment were associated with opposition to gun-control policies," though not with having a gun in the home.

What is the Symbolic Racism Scale? Is it a statist Rorscarch Test in which they intepret the answers to their liking?

Matt Collins
11-06-2013, 02:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

kahless
11-06-2013, 02:39 PM
I suspect the report says nothing about whites living in minority neighborhoods having to arm themselves due to being victimized or the threat of being victimized due to reverse racism. Nor crime statistics by race and income in-equality.

Ronin Truth
11-06-2013, 02:48 PM
This is the official site of Wanenmacher's Tulsa Arms Show, the original Tulsa gun show and the largest gun show in the world. Sometimes publishers or other websites accidentally publish wrong dates for our show. You can always find the correct dates here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/calendar.html)
http://www.tulsaarmsshow.com/home.html


This Saturday and Sunday, I'll be there.

TheGrinch
11-06-2013, 02:54 PM
Correlation =/= causation.

You should link them the Ben Swann report on the racist roots of gun control, and how they didn't allow MLK a carry license when he was fearing for his life.

Nothing here but a hit piece to demonize a politcal view because politics make strange bedfellows. It's like me saying "since the vast majority of American communists align more with the democratic party, all democrats are communists".

Antischism
11-06-2013, 02:58 PM
The study isn't saying that owning a gun makes you racist, it's saying that there's a higher number of racists among gun owners. Of course, correlation is not causation. However, there are issues with the way they conducted the study, the vagueness of the questions, and whether or not you believe symbolic racism is at all similar to the standard definition of racism. Also of note, the study was conducted in the UK, so they're more liable to be biased simply due to the nature of gun laws there.

As for symbolic racism, here's how it's defined by the study:


Most prominently, symbolic racism (racial resentment), an explicit but subtle form and measure of racism, has been found to be consistently related to peoples decisions regarding policies that may affect non-white US citizens. It is argued that symbolic racism supplanted old-fashioned or overt/blatant racism which had seen blacks as amoral and inferior, and was associated with open support for race inequality and segregation under ‘Jim Crow Laws’. Research following the US civil-rights movement suggested that anti-black racism and stereotyping, as assessed by blatant measures, had declined. However, subsequent research revealed that people may merely be reluctant to express racism and negative stereotyping on these blatant measures in order to avoid appearing racist. This observation led to the conceptualization and measurement of more subtle measures of racism, such as, symbolic racism.

Symbolic racism is a belief structure underpinned by both anti-black affect and traditional values. The anti-black affect (racism) component of symbolic racism is said to be established in pre-adult years through exposure to negative black stereotypes (e.g. blacks as dangerous, blacks are lazy), to the point that phenomena such as crime and physical violence have become typified as black phenomena. The anti-black affect is not necessarily conscious or deliberative, but may be felt as fear, anger, unease, and hostility towards blacks. The symbolic component reflects the abstract view of blacks as a collective rather than as individuals, as well as its basis in abstract white moralistic reasoning and traditions. Because symbolic racism represents an ingrained schema, individuals high in symbolic racism will react in a negative manner, often unconsciously, to issues perceived to involve a racial (i.e. black) component. Psychometric work shows that while symbolic racism has a small relationship with old-fashioned or blatant racism and stereotypes, only symbolic racism is associated with policy preferences related to race after controlling for conservative and political ideology and demographic characteristics (e.g., education, gender, age).

Racism was measured as follows:


Measures of two key types of racism against blacks were taken from the ANES for analyses: symbolic racism and implicit racial attitudes. Additionally, a single item from wave 20 of ANES was used to assess whether participants held the stereotype that blacks are violent. Participants responded to the item “How well does the word ‘violent’ describe most blacks?” using five response categories ranging from 1 = “extremely well”, to 5 = “not at all well” (i.e. extremely well, very well, moderately well, slightly well, or not at all well). The item was coded so that a response of extremely well or very well, indicated endorsement of the black violent stereotype (coded 1), with other responses coded as 0, did not endorse stereotype blacks are violent.

In wave 20 of the ANES, participants were asked to respond to a four-item scale drawn from the Symbolic Racism Scale. Specifically, participants indicated the extent to which they agree (1 = agree strongly to 5 = disagree strongly) with statements such as “Generations of slavery and discrimination have created conditions that make it difficult for blacks to work their way out of the lower class” (reverse scored). Scores on the four items were coded so that high scores are indicative of elevated levels of symbolic racism. A test of the reliability of the scale showed the four items corresponded closely with each other as indicated by a Cronbach’s alpha level of 0.8 and the emergence of a single factor from exploratory factor analysis of the scale. We utilized the average score across the four items to produce a scale ranging 1 = lowest symbolic racism score, to 5 = highest symbolic racism score.

The Implicit Association Test (IAT) is commonly used in experimental psychology to gauge implicit bias. A brief race (anti-black) IAT was included in wave 19 of the ANES to assess the extent to which participants demonstrated black-white racial bias. The theoretical background, instructions, and methodology for the race IAT have been well described elsewhere. Briefly, the race IAT was administered online, requiring participants to rapidly associate pictures of white and black faces with positively- and negatively-valenced words. Participants were asked to press the key “P” for white faces and for positive words and “Q” for any other stimulus. Alternatively, they were asked to press “P” for black faces or positive words and “Q” for other stimuli. The test consisted of 84 stimuli, two practice runs (14 sets of stimuli each) and two data collection blocks (28 sets of stimuli each). Response latencies across blocks were analysed to produce an effect size coefficient or D score. This score is coded so that positive scores indicate an unconscious preference for whites over blacks.

Furthermore,


In correlation analyses, greater race IAT scores were weakly associated with greater symbolic racism scores, and with the black violent stereotype. Higher IAT scores were not related to gun ownership and gun control in full models. Higher scores on black violent stereotyping were not related to any of the gun-related outcomes; the univariate relationship between black violent stereotyping and greater support for concealed handgun permits was explained by other variables.

This discussion section (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0077552#s5) explains how they went about it.

I don't think it's going to make it past peer review.

Antischism
11-06-2013, 03:02 PM
I suspect the report says nothing about whites living in minority neighborhoods having to arm themselves due to being victimized or the threat of being victimized due to reverse racism. Nor crime statistics by race and income in-equality.

You're basically lending credence to the study. Read the part I quoted about symbolic racism.

However, the point you made about minorities and crime rates is also a point which can be made about gun ownership in relation to racism. Just like skin color/ethnicity doesn't predispose people to be violent (you'd have to look at socioeconomic issues, the racist history of the U.S., minorities being victimized and incarcerated by unjust laws at a disproportionate rate such as in cases involving drug charges, etc.), owning a gun doesn't make anyone racist (obviously).

However, as you made clear, it's not far-fetched to believe those who want to own or already own guns, may be more prone to racist beliefs or symbolic racism. More specifically, xenophobia or a fear or people with darker skin because they've been portrayed as violent and dangerous for decades, and people begin to think collectively, instead of individually.

FloralScent
11-06-2013, 03:05 PM
...all democrats are communists".

An accurate statement.

kahless
11-06-2013, 03:16 PM
You're basically lending credence to the study.

Not at all. If you are white living in a minority neighborhood with a statistically high crime rate it is not racist to arm yourself, it common sense.

tod evans
11-06-2013, 03:18 PM
Hey SPLC.........Fuck off!

Henry Rogue
11-06-2013, 03:27 PM
The study it's self is founded in racism.

kahless
11-06-2013, 03:28 PM
You're basically lending credence to the study. Read the part I quoted about symbolic racism.

However, the point you made about minorities and crime rates is also a point which can be made about gun ownership in relation to racism. Just like skin color/ethnicity doesn't predispose people to be violent (you'd have to look at socioeconomic issues, the racist history of the U.S., minorities being victimized and incarcerated by unjust laws at a disproportionate rate such as in cases involving drug charges, etc.), owning a gun doesn't make anyone racist (obviously).

However, as you made clear, it's not far-fetched to believe those who want to own or already own guns, may be more prone to racist beliefs or symbolic racism. More specifically, xenophobia or a fear or people with darker skin because they've been portrayed as violent and dangerous for decades, and people begin to think collectively, instead of individually.

The study and you, as does the media completely ignores the reality of black on white racism and statistically higher crime rates in minority neighborhoods. That is not racist fear or xenophobia, it is a fact and one is wise to arm yourself to not become a victim.

Just like everything else this all about disarming the populace. Playing the race card appears to work for every issue for the Progressives so they are wisely using false allegations of racism to disparage gun ownership.

Antischism
11-06-2013, 03:28 PM
Not at all. If you are white living in a minority neighborhood with a statistically high crime rate it is not racist to arm yourself, it common sense.

Of course, it's common sense that you'd want to protect yourself if you lived in a neighborhood which was prone to violence, but in such a case, why would race become an issue? It's not a person's skin color that makes them violent. Similarly, it would make sense to arm yourself in a neighborhood that's majority white with a high incidence of crime, but you wouldn't then think, "Oh, all these white people are violent because they're white."


The study and you, as does the media completely ignores the reality of black on white racism and statistically higher crime rates in minority neighborhoods. That is not racist fear or xenophobia, it is a fact and one is wise to arm yourself to not become a victim.

Just like everything else this all about disarming the populace. Playing the race card appears to work for every issue for the Progressives so they are wisely using false allegations of racism to disparage gun ownership.

I'm not stating that it's racist to arm yourself if you live in a neighborhood with a high crime rate. Like you state, that's common sense. What IS racist however, is the thought that a person's skin color is what makes them violent, and reacting with fear or concern if you're around people with a darker skin tone, regardless of neighborhood/location. It's really lazy and dishonest to simply write off the disproportionate incarceration rate and incidence of crime attributed to minorities as being some sort of defect present in people who aren't white. There are a myriad of reasons why this is so.

Ronin Truth
11-06-2013, 03:30 PM
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Antischism
11-06-2013, 03:37 PM
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

What's your point?

Ronin Truth
11-06-2013, 03:45 PM
What's your point?

I'd have to say it's intuitively obvious. Or you can just make one up. :D

Snew
11-06-2013, 03:48 PM
Of course, it's common sense that you'd want to protect yourself if you lived in a neighborhood which was prone to violence, but in such a case, why would race become an issue? It's not a person's skin color that makes them violent. Similarly, it would make sense to arm yourself in a neighborhood that's majority white with a high incidence of crime, but you wouldn't then think, "Oh, all these white people are violent because they're white."

I'm not stating that it's racist to arm yourself if you live in a neighborhood with a high crime rate. Like you state, that's common sense. What IS racist however, is the thought that a person's skin color is what makes them violent, and reacting with fear or concern if you're around people with a darker skin tone, regardless of neighborhood/location. It's really lazy and dishonest to simply write off the disproportionate incarceration rate and incidence of crime attributed to minorities as being some sort of defect present in people who aren't white. There are a myriad of reasons why this is so.

Excellent post.

Contumacious
11-06-2013, 03:51 PM
So with the more guns you buy, the more racist you're likely to become? Before you know it, you'll be walking around the house like this guy.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/assets/Grand%20Wizard%20Lockwood%20Smith.jpg


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/gun-ownership-racism_n_4220727.html



What is the Symbolic Racism Scale? Is it a statist Rorscarch Test in which they intepret the answers to their liking?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh shit.

I have no choice but turn my weapons in. Fuck.

.

familydog
11-06-2013, 03:57 PM
If gun ownership is linked to racism, does that make my local police force and national guard depot the second coming of Nazism? Er, I forgot. Only private guns are racist.

tod evans
11-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Er, I forgot. Only private guns are racist.

No, no, no! Only private guns held by white people are racist...:confused:

DamianTV
11-06-2013, 04:02 PM
No, no, no! Only private guns held by white people are racist...:confused:

And Racists are Terrorists!

tod evans
11-06-2013, 04:04 PM
And Racists are Terrorists!

USA! USA!

aGameOfThrones
11-06-2013, 04:33 PM
The more guns you give to one group to take from another group to give to another group the more benevolent you are.

James Madison
11-06-2013, 05:24 PM
Soft sciences gonna soft.

enhanced_deficit
11-06-2013, 05:28 PM
Does the study apply to guns owned by police (such as those that killed unarmed black mother Miriam Carey just outside White House), military (such as guns used against people of Iraq) or not?

Pericles
11-06-2013, 05:30 PM
Since I took this pic:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/c68d59ec-f7bd-48da-974f-7f8a2a90d2a0_zpsfbe9475f.jpg

I have built a couple more. Where does that put me on the scale?

Kotin
11-06-2013, 05:31 PM
"study shows link between grasshoppers and refrigerators..."

AuH20
11-06-2013, 05:32 PM
Since I took this pic:
http://s623.photobucket.com/http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/c68d59ec-f7bd-48da-974f-7f8a2a90d2a0_zpsfbe9475f.jpg

I have built a couple more. Where does that put me on the scale?

You're definitely approaching Grand Wizard scale with that arsenal. :)

aGameOfThrones
11-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Since I took this pic:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/c68d59ec-f7bd-48da-974f-7f8a2a90d2a0_zpsfbe9475f.jpg

I have built a couple more. Where does that put me on the scale?


A police chief.

Contumacious
11-06-2013, 06:31 PM
Since I took this pic:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/c68d59ec-f7bd-48da-974f-7f8a2a90d2a0_zpsfbe9475f.jpg

I have built a couple more. Where does that put me on the scale?

Wut?

You be the Grand Wizard.

.

DamianTV
11-06-2013, 07:50 PM
USA! USA!

'murika!

(ok, someone post that Rammstein Music Video now...)

calendula
11-06-2013, 07:57 PM
What is the purpose of doing a study like this anyway?

tod evans
11-06-2013, 07:59 PM
What is the purpose of doing a study like this anyway?

Morris Dees can answer that.

green73
11-06-2013, 08:07 PM
Since I took this pic:

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt317/Pericles-photo/c68d59ec-f7bd-48da-974f-7f8a2a90d2a0_zpsfbe9475f.jpg

I have built a couple more. Where does that put me on the scale?

http://www.biography.com/imported/images/Biography/Images/Profiles/H/Adolf-Hitler-9340144-2-402.jpg

calendula
11-06-2013, 08:13 PM
Morris Dees can answer that.Exactly. I mean, the fact that anyone would want to do a study to see if there is any correlation between racism and gun ownership, should raise a red flag right from the get-go (at least to anyone with half a brain).