Vladimir Lenin: What did he say on the use of force in achieving his goals?

[NewUser]

Hi all, I know right, asking about Vladimir Lenin on a Ron Paul forum, but this is a real question I'd like to hear answers on. Ron Paul and Christians are all opposed to the use of force for even small matters and are convinced that everything must be done voluntarily. Paul and other libertarians justify their position by stating that 'the ends cannot justify the means'.

I agree with Paul's stance on this. However, for some strange reason I'm intrigued by how Lenin was able to morally justify the things he did and planned on doing in the Soviet Union. Lenin, unlike Mao and Stalin doesn't seem to be as inherently malevolent as these other two maniacs. I'm puzzled by how someone like Lenin could justify his position. How can it be acceptable to rob people of their basic privacy and their life savings? Did Lenin do it in the name of 'creating a utopia' and he accepted the 'necessary losses' that had to occur in creating his utopian society?

I'm really trying to find a quote on how Lenin justified the use of force in his quest to build a 'worker's paradise'. I'd love to see some direct quotes from Lenin or another Marxist, other than Mao and Stalin.

Thank you!

edit: grammar error.

[Paulbot99]

I have to admit that I am curious as well. I would think that he believed that what he was doing would benefit more people than he harmed. That is the type of thinking most utopians take to justify any questionable act.

[dinosaur]

Good question, I don't know but found some fun Lenin Quotes:



The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.
Vladimir Lenin



The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent and repress them in parliament.
Vladimir Lenin


The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency.
Vladimir Lenin

[roho76]

How about Che?

Here's a real doozy:

What we affirm is that we must proceed along the path of liberation even if this costs millions of atomic victims.

http://www.ihatethemedia.com/10-che-guevara-quotes-the-left-would-rather-not-talk-about

[Lucille]

I'm a bit bewildered at why you think Lenin wasn't malevolent. He was a blood thirsty totalitarian like all the other mass murdering commie leftists.

Check your premises.

[NewUser]

Good question, I don't know but found some fun Lenin Quotes:



Vladimir Lenin


Vladimir Lenin


Vladimir Lenin

Thanks! I've already seen those quotes and it's scary how what he said about inflation and taxation on the middle class is happening right now.

[NewUser]

Does anyone know of a book I could read to get inside Lenin's mind?

[NewUser]

I have to admit that I am curious as well. I would think that he believed that what he was doing would benefit more people than he harmed. That is the type of thinking most utopians take to justify any questionable act.

Oh, ok thanks, that helps me a lot!

[Ronin Truth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/lenin_vladimir.shtml Google is your friend https://www.google.com/

Are you doing research for a term paper? :D

[PierzStyx]

Communism denounces morality. Its a "by whatever means necessary" philosophy. Lie, cheat, steal, murder, its all allowable. The man didn't need to justify it morally because he had no morals that were being violated.

[NewUser]

Communism denounces morality. Its a "by whatever means necessary" philosophy. Lie, cheat, steal, murder, its all allowable. The man didn't need to justify it morally because he had no morals that were being violated.

Alright, thanks. Do you have any direct quotes from Lenin or other leading Marxist thinkers? I think you're right, but I'd really love to see a direct quote!

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I'm a bit bewildered at why you think Lenin wasn't malevolent. He was a blood thirsty totalitarian like all the other mass murdering commie leftists.

Check your premises.

Yea, I have to say with Communism it always comes down to them committing mass murder and purging the intellectually imperfect. Doesn't matter what country the idea takes root, it is a natural consequence.

[pcosmar]

Does anyone know of a book I could read to get inside Lenin's mind?

I suspect you don't really want to go there.

I know it is someplace I wouldn't want to be.

[NewUser]

I suspect you don't really want to go there.

I know it is someplace I wouldn't want to be.

I'm just interested in Lenin, that's all. Can you recommend a good book?

[VoluntaryAmerican]

I'm just interested in Lenin, that's all. Can you recommend a good book?

I imagine if you went to the library they would have a biography on him.

But I can recommend an interesting fiction novel dealing with communist mentality called, "WE".

[NewUser]

I imagine if you went to the library they would have a biography on him.

But I can recommend an interesting fiction novel dealing with communist mentality called, "WE".

Alright, thanks.

So there isn't really a book I can read to get inside Lenin's mind and thought processes?

[Ronin Truth]

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirle136420.html)
Vladimir Lenin (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirle136420.html)

If democracy, in essence, means the abolition of class domination, then why should not a socialist minister charm the whole bourgeois world by orations on class collaboration?
Lenin, What Is To Be Done? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/works/1901/witbd/i.htm), “Dogmatism And ‘Freedom of Criticism’” (1901)

Whoever wants to reach socialism by any other path than that of political democracy will inevitably arrive at conclusions that are absurd and reactionary both in the economic and the political sense.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Alright, thanks.

So there isn't really a book I can read to get inside Lenin's mind and thought processes?

Another interesting Communist-revolution book is Homage to Catalonia, Spanish Civil War, by George Orwell, if the people on this forum were born in that era many of us would probably be fighting along the communists/anarchists as part of the anti-fascist coalition... but then we would have been purged by the Communists as they attempted to do to Orwell. Reading history has taught me to never trust Communists (and yes I understand that is a collective stereotype) but at the end of the day it always comes down to mass murder for them once they gain power.

[NewUser]

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirle136420.html)
Vladimir Lenin (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirle136420.html)

If democracy, in essence, means the abolition of class domination, then why should not a socialist minister charm the whole bourgeois world by orations on class collaboration?
Lenin, What Is To Be Done? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/works/1901/witbd/i.htm), “Dogmatism And ‘Freedom of Criticism’” (1901)

Whoever wants to reach socialism by any other path than that of political democracy will inevitably arrive at conclusions that are absurd and reactionary both in the economic and the political sense.
Vladimir Ilyich Lenin



Alright, thanks.

Is there something else you could recommend I read to try to understand Lenin?

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm just interested in Lenin, that's all. Can you recommend a good book?
The Papers of Woodrow Wilson

[Demigod]

The "Revolution" always ends with greed and envy and they are tis its fuel from the very beginning.It all comes down when they start the war against the peasants and try to turn them into slaves on their plantations.The SU lived as long as it did solely because of the resourcefulness of the population .NK would have been gone a long time ago if they were not sent food because nobody wants 15 million zombies into their country.

And you can wait and see what will happen now with Venezuela with their lunatic president.

[Henry Rogue]

Does anyone know of a book I could read to get inside Lenin's mind?
1984 by George Orwell

[robert68]

Most people justify the initiation of force, it’s not a question that only applies to Lenin. The thing about the Soviet Union is that it wasn’t built from scratch, no empire is. It had the organs of the Russian Empire to build on.