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View Full Version : Germany is considering granting asylum to Edward Snowden




Lucille
10-31-2013, 02:57 PM
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-31/us-blasts-germanys-economic-model-germany-blasts-right-back-and-may-use-snowden-leve


Following media reports that Germany is considering granting asylum to Edward Snowden (http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/10/30/exclusive-human-rights-attorneys-have-been-working-with-german-politicians-on-asylum-for-snowden/), Germany's politician and member of the Green Party Christian Strobele moments ago sent out the following picture from his visit to Russia, alongside Snowden.

395983017895657472

Because what better way to unite the rest of the world against the former Globocop that is the US, than to show that anyone who is terrified to spending one extra day in the formerly great nation, can feel safer in Hong Kong... or Russia... or Germany... or increasingly more places that just want to tell America "enough."...

AngryCanadian
10-31-2013, 03:25 PM
I view this as a trap.

Zippyjuan
10-31-2013, 03:28 PM
Best I can confirm on this is that a member of the Green Party has suggested that Snowden come to Germany to testify about the NSA and Angela Merkel. He suggested the idea of possibly offering Snowden asylum to get him to come, but there is no indication that the German government agrees with the idea. http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/10/30/exclusive-human-rights-attorneys-have-been-working-with-german-politicians-on-asylum-for-snowden/

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-lawmaker-met-snowden-russia-20745948


Germany is seeking answers from U.S. authorities to allegations Chancellor Angela Merkel's cellphone was monitored, which prompted Merkel to complain to Obama last week. Merkel's foreign policy adviser and intelligence coordinator held talks on the issue in Washington on Wednesday.

Germany's government was one of many that rejected an asylum request from Snowden earlier this year. Merkel spokesman Steffen Seibert, when asked earlier this week whether Berlin should seek testimony from Snowden, said "the question doesn't arise for the government now."

Meaning they aren't currently considering it.

Lucille
10-31-2013, 03:32 PM
I view this as a trap.

I think he's safer in Russia.

brushfire
10-31-2013, 03:35 PM
He should pursue it. If he gets enough, it may be harder to track him. Although Russia has been proven to be safe, he may not be for very long.

Nothing wrong with having options either.

limequat
10-31-2013, 06:21 PM
I view this as a trap.

Ditto. Merkel knows the NSA is spying on her and every other goddamn person on the planet. The outrage is faked.

Besides, look at Snowden's face in this pic.

69360
10-31-2013, 06:39 PM
My German is horrible but I think it says he had a meeting with snowden, brought a letter, details in the morning.

AFPVet
10-31-2013, 06:43 PM
He should stay in Russia. He has protection, and now, a job.

Elias Graves
10-31-2013, 07:07 PM
I think he's safer in Russia.

My, how the world has changed...

TER
10-31-2013, 07:12 PM
http://www.amberbird.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/star_wars_its_a_trap.jpg

TER
10-31-2013, 07:14 PM
Mr. Snowden, if you visit these boards, please take my advice - pretend like you are considering it but do not go!

brushfire
10-31-2013, 07:22 PM
http://www.amberbird.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/star_wars_its_a_trap.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etFwsP3aCr8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD4mqYbVxIo

TER
10-31-2013, 07:26 PM
My, how the world has changed...

It is because we as a nation have become gluttons and are complacent and have systematically been indoctrinated to put Hollywood over the Word of God and the worship of sin over the worship of our Creator. With all the problems of Russia, at least they have found again a strong Christian voice! This nation once did, it had its glory days of adherence to the moral law inspired and created by a Creator. Now it is run by megalomaniac atheists who own printing presses and news stations and have stock in weaponry. The war profiteers and sadists! And everything hidden will be exposed and all secrets in the Final Day shall be revealed, and the soul knows this to be the case even though the mind fights to disprove it. Nothing will be hid. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy.

twomp
10-31-2013, 07:38 PM
It is because we as a nation have become gluttons and are complacent and have systematically been indoctrinated to put Hollywood over the Word of God and the worship of sin over the worship of our Creator. With all the problems of Russia, at least they have found again a strong Christian voice! This nation once did, it had its glory days of adherence to the moral law inspired and created by a Creator. Now it is run by megalomaniac atheists who own printing presses and news stations and have stock in weaponry. The war profiteers and sadists! And everything hidden will be exposed and all secrets in the Final Day shall be revealed, and the soul knows this to be the case even though the mind fights to disprove it. Nothing will be hid. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy.

As a Catholic, I wish what you were saying is true but it simply isn't. Some of the most heinous crimes this world has ever known have come in the name of god. God if he wanted, could wave his pinky finger and end all the evil and fked up things but he simply looks the other way. There are little children somewhere in the world being raped and abused as we speak right now. Where is God?

TER
10-31-2013, 07:39 PM
As a Catholic, I wish what you were saying is true but it simply isn't. Some of the most heinous crimes this world has ever known have come in the name of god. God if he wanted, could wave his pinky finger and end all the evil and fked up things but he simply looks the other way. There are little children somewhere in the world being raped and abused as we speak right now. Where is God?

God is on a cross, stabbed and beaten.

twomp
10-31-2013, 07:40 PM
God is on a cross, stabbed and beaten.

If that was all it took to stop God, why should anyone bother worshiping him?

TER
10-31-2013, 07:43 PM
If that was all it took to stop God, why should anyone bother worshiping him?

God was not stopped, for He willing went on the cross.

twomp
10-31-2013, 07:45 PM
God was not stopped, for He willing went on the cross.

Well then, he needs to get off that cross and get to work then. People are suffering and just "wishing" for a better world is not cutting it.

TER
10-31-2013, 07:47 PM
Well then, he needs to get off that cross and get to work then. People are suffering and just "wishing" for a better world is not cutting it.

He did. He went into Hades where all the souls back to Adam were imprisoned and then He rose from the dead and then ascended into Heaven and by doing so has saved us, every one of us, from eternal death.

twomp
10-31-2013, 07:50 PM
He did. He went into Hades where all the souls back to Adam were imprisoned and then He rose from the dead and then ascended into Heaven and by doing so has saved us, every one of us, from eternal death.

There are little kids sitting in cages all around the world who beg to differ. Some of them are wishing for death. But all you have to offer is "think happy thoughts" from your nice cushy home here in America.

TER
10-31-2013, 08:15 PM
There are little kids sitting in cages all around the world who beg to differ. Some of them are wishing for death. But all you have to offer is "think happy thoughts" from your nice cushy home here in America.

I also offer prayers and money when I can, not merely happy thoughts (though even those are beneficial).

Christ did not promise there would be no pain or no death in this world. In fact, He taught that we should die to this world and be born in the Spirit of God. That is the whole mystery of Baptism!

He actually warned us about what great trials we would endure and the cross we would each have to bear. Only in Christ, is pain and suffering understood and then brought into salvation. The refining of our impurities and healing our infirmities, through Christ Who first endured it so that we may now share in His divine and eternal nature, risen from the dead. Not with avoidance of pain and death, for these will surely come!, but with the joy and the hope of rebirth and transfiguration of man as sons of God, partaking of the divine nature as new creatures in the image and likeness of Christ our God.

DGambler
10-31-2013, 08:25 PM
I struggle with this... If God is our father and loves us as his children, why does he allow the most innocent of his children (actual children) to suffer so? It does not compute and as a father, I can not reconcile how I love my own children and what is happening to humanity and God.

TER
10-31-2013, 08:38 PM
I struggle with this... If God is our father and loves us as his children, why does he allow the most innocent of his children (actual children) to suffer so? It does not compute and as a father, I can not reconcile how I love my own children and what is happening to humanity and God.

We are humans living in this world, in time and space and under the constraints of the natural world. We cannot understand the mind of God or the reasons of God based solely on our knowledge or from our own efforts alone. If you were an all knowing parent and knew your little child would grow up to be a murderous thief and abuser of children who lived a miserable life, would you allow your child to die now with the promise that they will live in eternal bliss in the kingdom of heaven? How much is your child's soul worth? This is just own example, there are innumerable examples. We think we know the ending and what is best and put our own will and knowledge above the will and wisdom of God. What indeed is really best may be something totally different.

What we know it has been revealed to us in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. What has not been fully revealed, like the evil in this world and suffering, will be revealed on the final day. For now, it is enough, as revealed by God, to know that God is good, He loves us, and He became as own of us, suffered innocently, and through His life and death, has saved us from emptiness and eternal death.

Carlybee
10-31-2013, 09:25 PM
I was going to comment on the OP then I see the topic got sidetracked.

TER
10-31-2013, 09:27 PM
I was going to comment on the OP then I see the topic got sidetracked.

Please don't let us distract you. This thread does need to get back on topic!

Carlybee
10-31-2013, 09:43 PM
The US still has some military installations in Germany. I don't think it would be a good move.

TER
10-31-2013, 09:48 PM
The US still has some military installations in Germany. I don't think it would be a good move.

I agree. Merkle has been given advantages because of the NSA snooping on her political enemies, of this I have little doubt.

Snowden will not stay long a free man in Germany if he was to go.

enhanced_deficit
10-31-2013, 10:11 PM
It's all good.

You can't tap Merkel and expect no blowback.

Zippyjuan
10-31-2013, 10:14 PM
As a former East German having her phone tapped should not be news to her.

bolil
10-31-2013, 10:14 PM
If it were a trap, I would resign my citizenship and declare war the next day. Its all fucked up when guy has to stay in Russia out of fear of the land of the free.

TER
10-31-2013, 10:24 PM
It's all good.

You can't tap Merkel and expect no blowback.

She must always have suspected it, she just now is faced to answer about it in the arena of public opinion.

Merkle and her administration know Obama is a lame duck President now, and will gladly throw him under the bus (especially if it is to their financial advantage).

Lucille
11-01-2013, 10:58 AM
Snowden seeks world's help against US charges
http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-seeks-worlds-help-against-us-charges-143347084.html


BERLIN (AP) — Edward Snowden is calling for international help to persuade the U.S. to drop its espionage charges against him, according to a letter a German lawmaker released Friday after meeting the American in Moscow.

Snowden said he would like to testify before the U.S. Congress about National Security Agency surveillance and may be willing to help German officials investigate alleged U.S. spying in Germany, Hans-Christian Stroebele, a lawmaker with Germany's opposition Greens, told a press conference.

But Snowden indicated in the letter that neither would happen unless the U.S. dropped its espionage charges — a policy shift the Obama administration has given no indication it would make.

Earlier Friday, Germany's top security official said he would like to arrange for German authorities to talk to Snowden about allegations that the NSA monitored the cellphone of Chancellor Angela Merkel and other U.S. surveillance operations.

Reports about NSA spying on world leaders and allies have outraged Europeans in the past two weeks. Snowden has said he no longer has the NSA materials but his knowledge of U.S. spying efforts could be seen as invaluable by other nations. Germany has purchased stolen data before — most notably Swiss banking records — and used that to successfully prosecute people.

In his one-page typed letter, written in English and bearing signatures that Stroebele said were his own and Snowden's, Snowden complained that the U.S. government "continues to treat dissent as defection, and seeks to criminalize political speech with felony charges that provide no defense."

"I am confident that with the support of the international community, the government of the United States will abandon this harmful behavior," Snowden wrote.

But he indicated he wouldn't talk in Germany or elsewhere until "the situation is resolved."

Stroebele said Snowden appeared healthy and cheerful during their meeting Thursday at an undisclosed location in Moscow. The German television network ARD, which accompanied Stroebele, said the Germans were taken to the meeting by "security officials" under "strict secrecy."

"(Snowden) said that he would like most to lay the facts on the table before a committee of the U.S. Congress and explain them," Stroebele said. The lawmaker, a prominent critic of the NSA's alleged activities, said the 30-year-old "did not present himself to me as anti-American or anything like that — quite the contrary."
[...]
Earlier Friday, Germany's interior minister said if Snowden were willing, he would try to arrange a meeting with German officials.

"If the message is that Mr. Snowden wants to give us information, then we will be glad to accept that," Interior Minister Hans-Peter Friedrich said in comments confirmed by his spokesman.

Snowden was granted a one-year asylum in Russia in August after being stuck at a Moscow airport for more than a month following his arrival there from Hong Kong. Russian President Vladimir Putin has said Snowden got asylum on condition that he wouldn't harm U.S. interests.

Snowden's Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, told the Interfax news agency that Snowden would not violate the terms of his asylum if he talked to the Germans in the wiretapping case. But Stroebele said Snowden had "significant reservations" about that idea, fearing that speaking to foreign officials on Russian soil could cause him problems.

If Snowden leaves Russia, he would lose his asylum status, Kucherena confirmed.

Germany, along with many other nations, rejected an asylum request from Snowden earlier this year. In July, the Germans received a U.S. request for Snowden's arrest should he be found in the country.

Snowden's exact whereabouts in Russia and his activities have been a mystery.

Stroebele was tightlipped about where he was taken to meet the American in Russia. He said he had "no contact with Russian authorities" other than a passport control officer and none with the German Embassy in Moscow...

Text of Snowden letter released by German lawmaker
http://news.yahoo.com/text-snowden-letter-released-german-lawmaker-150335347.html


BERLIN (AP) — The text of a letter that German lawmaker Hans-Christian Stroebele says National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden gave him during a meeting on Thursday in Moscow. Stroebele released the letter Friday.

torchbearer
11-01-2013, 11:20 AM
As a former East German having her phone tapped should not be news to her.

that may be why the subject is so sensitive. it a reality to her, while some people still don't understand the gravity of this spying action.

Zippyjuan
11-01-2013, 05:46 PM
He does probably need to find another place to go- the visa the Russians gave him is good for one year starting in August (unless they extend it).

HOLLYWOOD
11-01-2013, 05:57 PM
The US still has some military installations in Germany. I don't think it would be a good move.Some? More like a Shit Load... this how they "hook you"... Ramstein Air Base just build a Mall/Hotel on the U.S.A.F. base.... over a $1/4 of Billion for that cost overrun debacle. Congress this year voted down a amendment to bring just one Army regiment back from Germany to KY. It's all a big lie

Look at this NSA waste outside Berlin... it's graffiti ruins now.

http://www.lovethesepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/The-aerial-image-depicts-approximately-the-maximum-installation-on-the-Teufelsberg-as-it-once-was.jpg

Lucille
11-02-2013, 02:35 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/snowden-free-talk-germans-kremlin-171941924.html


Moscow (AFP) - Intelligence leaker Edward Snowden is free to speak with whoever he chooses, including foreign authorities, a Kremlin spokesman said on Saturday, after the US fugitive said he was ready to help a German probe into US spying.

"He has temporary refugee status. That status does not foresee any restrictions on his moving around the country or speaking to anyone," President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov told AFP.

The former National Security Agency contractor spent more than a month in the transit zone of a Moscow airport before receiving temporary asylum in Russia in August to the fury of the United States where he faces trial on charges under the Espionage Act.

Putin has said Snowden was welcome to stay in Russia as long as he did not harm US interests.

Peskov said on Saturday that condition remained in place. "No one will allow him to use the territory of Russia to harm US interests."

But the spokesman also said that Snowden was free to speak to German prosecutors over their probe into claims that Washington spied on Chancellor Angela Merkel, or even travel to Germany.

"No one is keeping him here. He is not being held captive here," said Peskov. "He is free to pack up and fly anywhere he wants."

But he warned that if Snowden wanted to return to Moscow, he would have to re-apply for asylum.

"He can leave only once," said Peskov.

On Thursday, Snowden met in Moscow with German Green party lawmaker Hans-Christian Stroebele to discuss his evidence that Washington for years monitored German Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone.

Stroebele told reporters in Berlin on Friday that Snowden was willing to speak to the German authorities.

Zippyjuan
11-02-2013, 06:48 PM
Sounds like they kinda want him to leave (eventually).


"He has temporary refugee status.
(his visa was for one year)


"He is free to pack up and fly anywhere he wants."


But he warned that if Snowden wanted to return to Moscow, he would have to re-apply for asylum.

"He can leave only once," said Peskov.

RickyJ
11-02-2013, 07:18 PM
He does probably need to find another place to go- the visa the Russians gave him is good for one year starting in August (unless they extend it).

They will extend it if he behaves. Many Russians love the guy, if would be a public relations disaster for Putin if he didn't let him stay.