Deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old carrying toy gun

[green73]

SANTA ROSA, Calif. - Northern California sheriff's officials and family members say deputies shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a replica assault weapon.

Two Sonoma County deputies saw the boy walking with the replica weapon around 3 p.m. Tuesday in Santa Rosa. Lt. Dennis O'Leary says they repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.

The boy fell to the ground. Deputies handcuffed him and began administering first aid, but he was pronounced dead at the scene. O'Leary says deputies also found a plastic handgun in his waistband.

The boy's father, Rodrigo Lopez, told the Press Democrat (http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131022/articles/131029886?title=Deputies-shoot,-kill-13-year-old-boy-in-Santa-Rosa) of Santa Rosa the victim was his 13-year-old son, Andy.

The deputies have not been identified.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/23/Calif-Sheriffs-deputies-shoot--kill-13-year-old

More details in the Press Democrat article

[The Bavarian]

I saw my neighbors 10 year old son play with a toy rifle yesterday. It had the fake orange tip thing on the barrel, but it was sad that the thought of cops rolling up and shooting him came to my mind considering I remember playing with toy guns as a kid...

;_;

oh new youth, what have we done to you?

[Athan]

Sue the cops PERSONALLY. Once you win, sue the county and state.

[Elias Graves]

But the officers are safe, right?

[green73]

But the officers are safe, right?


Neither deputy was injured, said Sheriff's Lt. Steve Brown.

Phew.

[Cleaner44]

This bullshit that the officers feared for their safety only goes so far. Will they ever be held accountable?

[JK/SEA]

But the officers are safe, right?

we need to take up a collection and send these officers a HallMark card as they must be still shaking from fear of possibly being killed by a plastic gun carried by an innocent young boy just playing.

[JK/SEA]

This bullshit that the officers feared for their safety only goes so far. Will they ever be held accountable?

in my lifetime?....doubtful.

[Root]

Zero tolerance. Comply or be eliminated.

[jkr]

remember these?:
http://www.tias.com/stores/squirrel/pictures/act135a.jpg
i had laser tag, kids were getting blown away for these in the 80's...seems about the time this shit started...

[Occam's Banana]

Deputies handcuffed him and began administering first aid [...]

If the kid was dangerous enough to be shot and then handcuffed, shouldn't the deputies have adminstered coup de grâce rather than fist aid?

You know, just to be safe ...

[JK/SEA]

If the kid was dangerous enough to be shot and then handcuffed, shouldn't the deputies have adminstered coup de grâce rather than fist aid?

You know, just to be safe ...

pffftt..yeah, what the hell...one more in the heart..who's gonna know...

[tangent4ronpaul]

Was the officer OK? :rolleyes:

-t

[pcosmar]

This bullshit that the officers feared for their safety only goes so far. Will they ever be held accountable?

Yes,,but not in this life.

[tod evans]

Pathetic pieces of shit!

Sorry thing is even trying to justify it.:mad:

[pcosmar]

we need to take up a collection and send these officers a HallMark card as they must be still shaking from fear of possibly being killed by a plastic gun carried by an innocent young boy just playing.

http://hardcardsrule.com/un-sympathy/shitty-choices
http://media.hardcardsrule.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/grid-6/sites/hardcardsrule.com/files/images/cards/015/photo_front/015.photo_front.jpg
http://media.hardcardsrule.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/grid-6/sites/hardcardsrule.com/files/images/cards/015/photo_inside/015.photo_inside.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Zero tolerance. Comply or be eliminated.

Yup.

You might not even be given the chance to comply.

I'll bet less than 2 seconds elapsed before they wasted this kid.

[Root]

Yup.

You might not even be given the chance to comply.

I'll bet less than 2 seconds elapsed before they wasted this kid.

After I posted this, I realized I should have used executed instead eliminated.

[Philhelm]

It's a tough, stressful job. I'm just glad the officers were safe.

Actually, if I were the father I would take vengeance.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You don't understand. Cops are people too. Most of them are good.

[Lucille]

Two Sonoma County deputies saw the boy walking with the replica weapon around 3 p.m. Tuesday in Santa Rosa. Lt. Dennis O'Leary says they repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.

Mm hm. Sure they did.

The LEOs won't lose a wink of sleep over murdering that kid either.

[Snew]

Disgusting. :mad: And the comment section of the Press-Democrat article isn't much better.

[Dr.3D]

I saw my neighbors 10 year old son play with a toy rifle yesterday. It had the fake orange tip thing on the barrel, but it was sad that the thought of cops rolling up and shooting him came to my mind considering I remember playing with toy guns as a kid...

;_;

oh new youth, what have we done to you?
Makes me wonder how long it will be before somebody puts that "fake orange tip" on a real weapon.

[AFPVet]

Remember those "no hesitation" targets we saw awhile back...?

[erowe1]

The moment both of these cops realized their mistake, they should have collapsed, wept, torn off their badges, and screamed uncontrollably, "What have we done?!"

If they didn't, then they're sociopaths. If the agency they work for is fine with that, then they're either deliberately hiring sociopaths, or actively training those who work for them to become sociopaths.

[Czolgosz]

This bullshit that the officers feared for their safety only goes so far. Will they ever be held accountable?

Only when a few good men have had enough.

[IndianaPolitico]

Just to throw this in here. From the pictures released, it appears that the "toy" was an airsoft replica of an AK-47. I have been playing airsoft for the past 5 years, and it is VERY difficult to tell the difference between a real firearm and the airsoft replica, Especially at a distance.

[mrsat_98]

This bullshit that the officers feared for their safety only goes so far. Will they ever be held accountable?


Mm hm. Sure they did.

The LEOs won't lose a wink of sleep over murdering that kid either.

They will be held accountable, probably won't get to work for a couple weeks. They should sleep sound, come on they feared for their life. Always remember the LEO' once where someone child. I hope they .... err hang by the neck till they rot.

[tod evans]

Just to throw this in here. From the pictures released, it appears that the "toy" was an airsoft replica of an AK-47. I have been playing airsoft for the past 5 years, and it is VERY difficult to tell the difference between a real firearm and the airsoft replica, Especially at a distance.

That's absolutely no excuse to kill a child!

[specsaregood]

Just to throw this in here. From the pictures released, it appears that the "toy" was an airsoft replica of an AK-47. I have been playing airsoft for the past 5 years, and it is VERY difficult to tell the difference between a real firearm and the airsoft replica, Especially at a distance.

But what does that matter if it does resemble one? Is just carrying such a weapon grounds for execution? Did the kid aim and fire at the officers? Did he shoot somebody else with it?

[Demigod]

...

[puppetmaster]

Wow. Sick I hope the cops get what they deserve. This shit is so unnecessary if the cops had a brain. This is why I resigned. Too many stupid cops with guns. Sorry for the family.

[Cutlerzzz]

I would call setting their houses on fire with their families inside justice.They should be spared to feel the pain.

I would say you're a bigger sociopath then they are then.

[TheGrinch]

But what does that matter if it does resemble one? Is just carrying such a weapon grounds for execution? Did the kid aim and fire at the officers? Did he shoot somebody else with it?

My thoughts exactly. They're not supposed to just shoot first and ask questions later, yet they almost always do.

Particularly with it being a child and no indications that shots were fired, they clearly should exercise caution before ending someone's life.

It becomes more clear every day who they're meant to protect and serve.

[Paulbot99]

The Press Democrat is blaming our "gun-glorifying culture". Disgusting. I say it was the State they love so much who murdered this child.

[WM_in_MO]

Thank god the officers weren't hurt. Those pellets sting!

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/Title_to_murder_inc_from_trailer.jpg

Brought to you by... 'Government, the leading killer of humanity since the beginning of society'

[Elias Graves]

Now the story is the kid was shot from behind.
Can anyone confirm that?

[Demigod]

I would say you're a bigger sociopath then they are then.

Then by all means continue having your husbands,wife's and children killed EVERYDAY.

[Cutlerzzz]

Then continue having your husbands,wife's and children killed EVERYDAY.

What are you complaining about? You want more husbands, wives, and children murdered because of the sins of their fathers.

[Demigod]

What are you complaining about? You want more husbands, wives, and children murdered because of the sins of their fathers.

You cry 24/7 about police brutality.How about showing some backbone for once in you life time with all those guns and ammo you love to store.The police killing a little kid in broad daylight ( even if he is an immigrant ) in Europe would start such a shitstorm entire cities would burn,and maybe even a government would fall.

Why the hell do you defend your 2 amendment so much when you don't do anything with it,Europe is mostly unarmed and the police don't even dare to unholster their firearms.Everyday there are multiple threads like this and I have yet to see a thread where someone has done something about it except for that cop in LA who was framed for corruption.Of course in the end after shooting at two women and burning him alive everyone everything just went back to normal.

[Cutlerzzz]

You cry 24/7 about police brutality.How about showing some backbone for once in you life time with all those guns and ammo you love to store.The police killing a little kid in broad daylight ( even if he is an immigrant ) in Europe would start such a shitstorm entire cities would burn,and maybe even a government would fall.

Why the hell do you defend your 2 amendment so much when you don't do anything with it,Europe is mostly unarmed and the police don't even dare to unholster their firearms.Everyday there are multiple threads like this and I have yet to see a thread where someone has done something about it except for that cop in LA who was framed for corruption.Of course in the end after shooting at two women and burning him alive everyone everything just went back to normal.

You accuse other people of not having a back bone by standing up to police brutality by murdering police officer's children, yet unless you're posting from death row, you have yet to do shit. Police brutality and murders happen in Europe. It happens everywhere.

And I've got to laugh at your attempts to make Europeans some kind of hard asses standing up to their government. In most of Europe you're guilty until proven innocent. Europeans take shit from their government that doesn't even fly in the United States.

You're trying to sound like some kind of hard ass for killing children.

Your post is a joke and you're a sociopath. Now you've deleted your post. Are you going to say that you were wrong for wanting to burn women and children to death, or just too embarrassed to admit it?

[TheGrinch]

You cry 24/7 about police brutality.How about showing some backbone for once in you life time with all those guns and ammo you love to store.The police killing a little kid in broad daylight ( even if he is an immigrant ) in Europe would start such a shitstorm entire cities would burn,and maybe even a government would fall.

Why the hell do you defend your 2 amendment so much when you don't do anything with it,Europe is mostly unarmed and the police don't even dare to unholster their firearms.Everyday there are multiple threads like this and I have yet to see a thread where someone has done something about it except for that cop in LA who was framed for corruption.Of course in the end after shooting at two women and burning him alive everyone everything just went back to normal.

I sincerely apologize that we aren't the heartless monsters that they are. I'll try to work on it.

[aGameOfThrones]

"that could have been my son."- Barack Obama


Wait, I don't have a son who supports the second amendment to play with toy guns, nvm.

http://cloudfront-media.reason.com/mc/mriggs/2013_02/LittleBoy.png?h=286

[Demigod]

You accuse other people of not having a back bone by standing up to police brutality by murdering police officer's children, yet unless you're posting from death row, you have yet to do shit. Police brutality and murders happen in Europe. It happens everywhere.

And I've got to laugh at your attempts to make Europeans some kind of hard asses standing up to their government. In most of Europe you're guilty until proven innocent. Europeans take shit from their government that doesn't even fly in the United States.

You're trying to sound like some kind of hard ass for killing children.

Your post is a joke and you're a sociopath. Now you've deleted your post. Are you going to say that you were wrong for wanting to burn women and children to death, or just too embarrassed to admit it?

First you can write all you want about the people-police relation in Europe and the USA,but in reality they can not even be compared ( except for the UK and France ).Police in Europe don't run around killing women and kids,yes there is a lot of corruption and abuses in most states but the cops are not even 1% trigger happy as they are in the US nor are they even allowed.A cop killing someone is a mayor event in Europe and not the daily statistics like in the US.

I deleted my post because it sent the wrong message.Now you asked me how I have stood against police brutality.I have had my kidneys rearranged in a police station a few times when I was younger for standing up to police harassment for things that can not even be compared to this because I have never had anything as close as an emotional experience as having my kids killed while they are out playing.Will I admit I am wrong saying that I think that revenge is in due for what has happened to this man DEFINITELY NOT ,did I express my self badly mostly in the heat of the moment YES,I should not have wrote that the police families should be killed.

As for the debate whether Europeans are hard ass,that is totally debatable but I am very sorry that I got into your little den where you can have your daily dose of bitching about the police every day without ever doing something about it.Americans take shit from their government that in Europe would start a revolution.


I sincerely apologize that we aren't the heartless monsters that they are. I'll try to work on it.

Tell that to the father who lost a son playing outside and the guys who killed him will go free because everyone has so much love in their hearts to even try to do something about it.

[Cap]

Does anyone know if there was a video taken, by either the dash cams or a bystander?

[Cutlerzzz]

First you can write all you want about the people-police relation in Europe and the USA,but in reality they can not even be compared ( except for the UK and France ).Police in Europe don't run around killing women and kids,yes there is a lot of corruption and abuses in most states but the cops are not even 1% trigger happy as they are in the US nor are they even allowed.A cop killing someone is a mayor event in Europe and not the daily statistics like in the US.

I deleted my post because it sent the wrong message.Now you asked me how I have stood against police brutality.I have had my kidneys rearranged in a police station a few times when I was younger for standing up to police harassment for things that can not even be compared to this because I have never had anything as close as an emotional experience as having my kids killed while they are out playing.Will I admit I am wrong saying that I think that revenge is in due for what has happened to this man DEFINITELY NOT ,did I express my self badly mostly in the heat of the moment YES,I should not have wrote that his family should be killed.

As for the debate whether Europeans are hard ass,that is totally debatable but I am very sorry that I got into your little den where you can have your daily dose of bitching about the police every day.Americans take shit from their government that in Europe would start a revolution.

So are you or are you not saying you were wrong to say that their wives and kids should be burned to death?

[Demigod]

So are you or are you not saying you were wrong to say that their wives and kids should be burned to death?

I was wrong to say that their kids and wife's should be burned or harmed in any way.

[Lucille]

Does anyone know if there was a video taken, by either the dash cams or a bystander?

At least one:

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131022/articles/131029886?title=Deputies-shoot,-kill-13-year-old-boy-in-Santa-Rosa#page=0


Ian Davis, who lives on Moorland Avenue, just north of West Robles Avenue, was on his way home, driving north on Moorland, when he encountered a sheriff's patrol car parked in the southbound lane of Moorland, the front of the car pointed in the opposite direction of traffic. Two sheriff's deputies were crouched and taking cover behind the driver's side and passenger side front doors.

Davis turned right on West Robles, drove to the end of the street and then turned around and drove back to the intersection of West Robles and began shooting video of the scene.

Davis said he likely pulled up moments after the shots were fired because he could see someone lying on the ground, several yards in front of the patrol car.

In his video, Davis can be heard saying, “Police standoff ... gunpoint. He said, 'Don't reach for the rifle.'”

Moments later, Davis says, “I don't want to be here, actually. I need to get out of here. I'm in the line of fire.”

As Davis quickly crosses Moorland to get away from the scene, the video shows two sheriff's deputies taking cover near their patrol car. In front of the patrol car, a body lies partially on the sidewalk and in a field of dry grass.

[tod evans]

These cops deserve public execution.

Killing a kid with a BB gun is way out of line.

Where was this? Land of fruits-n-nuts?

[TheGrinch]

Tell that to the father who lost a son playing outside and the guys who killed him will go free because everyone has so much love in their hearts to even try to do something about it.

Ummm, I didn't shoot the guy's kid, hell I don't even know the guy, so why should I have to look him in the eye about anything, let alone feel bad or somehow responsible?

Why do you feel it is my place to harm other innocent people? That makes even less sense than me going Batman to avenge the man who committed injustices to complete strangers, and yes, it is sociopathic to assume that harming civilians should be combatted by harming more innocent civilians.

Anways, stop derailing this thread. If you want to orchestrate some vigilante justice that is likely to get you killed or rotting in a jail cell, then that's your prerogative, not mine or this boards. It certainly isn't within the forum guidelines for the very obvious reason that we don't advocate violence.

[Carson]

Telling size can be a hard thing to do at times.

I had a Doe tag one year. The morning opened and a Doe came out in front of my stand. I got her but when I went over to check it and tag her it wasn't a big doe. Iit was about a year old yearling. It was legal as it didn't have spots but instead of a full size dear in front of me it was more the size of a gray-hound.

Pretty embarrassing. And I still had the trip home... and the cook out...

Anyway maybe something like that happened to the Sheriff's Deputy.

That said; When did it quit being a Constitutional Right and become a shoot on sight if anyone possesses a gun?

[IndianaPolitico]

That's absolutely no excuse to kill a child!

I never said that. But I have read dozens of these threads on here, and every time people glaze over details and go right for the "kill the cops" line. You weren't there, I wasn't there, no one posting here witnessed what happened. They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line. But my point is that I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

[green73]

I never said that. But I have read dozens of these threads on here, and every time people glaze over details and go right for the "kill the cops" line. You weren't there, I wasn't there, no one posting here witnessed what happened. They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line. But my point is that I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

You're right. He could have pointed the toy at them and gone "POW POW". Kids these days.

[DamianTV]

MSM: Cops shoot Mundane, nothing to see here folks, move along.

MSM: If Mundane had a Gun, then you should Fear the Freedom of Guns in the hands of Mundanes, oh and Fear the Freedom in a world without COPS.

[bolil]

Put them on trial. If, and it seems it is true, they basically murdered this kid then put them in prison where they can go to work and pay the victims families. Gotta put them on trial.

[tod evans]

I never said that. But I have read dozens of these threads on here, and every time people glaze over details and go right for the "kill the cops" line. You weren't there, I wasn't there, no one posting here witnessed what happened. They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line. But my point is that I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

Which "detail" was glazed over?

A child was shot in cold blood because he had a fucking BB gun.

I don't need any more details or excuses.

[Anti Federalist]

Remember those "no hesitation" targets we saw awhile back...?

+rep

[Anti Federalist]

The moment both of these cops realized their mistake, they should have collapsed, wept, torn off their badges, and screamed uncontrollably, "What have we done?!"

If they didn't, then they're sociopaths. If the agency they work for is fine with that, then they're either deliberately hiring sociopaths, or actively training those who work for them to become sociopaths.


Deputies handcuffed him and began administering first aid, but he was pronounced dead at the scene

Policy was followed.

Hostile was neutralized.

Unit safety ensured.

Clean up procedures initiated.

RTB.

[Anti Federalist]

The Press Democrat is blaming our "gun-glorifying culture". Disgusting. I say it was the State they love so much who murdered this child.

And we are all awful, awful people for not having the proper empathy for this brave officer who is forced, in the line of his heroic duty, to execute children.

[Anti Federalist]

I never said that. But I have read dozens of these threads on here, and every time people glaze over details and go right for the "kill the cops" line. You weren't there, I wasn't there, no one posting here witnessed what happened. They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line. But my point is that I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

If you've read dozens and dozens of "cop shoots mundane" or "cop shoots dog" stories here, how can you claim you don't have facts?

The dozens and dozens of stories speak for themselves.

War on Us.

[RJB]

They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line.Whether they were out of line or not, the internal investigation will ALWAYS clear them. The police ALWAYS stand with their brothers no matter how vile. (unless a miracle happens). With that in mind, we need to stand with the victims of these killings because, who else will demand justice, the government?

[FindLiberty]

I feel so sad for the family that lost there child; don't know what to say except, "sorry to hear about your loss". I bet the shooters are not having their best day either... very sad.

[DamianTV]

I feel so sad for the family that lost there child; don't know what to say except, "sorry to hear about your loss". I bet the shooters are not having their best day either... very sad.

Are you kidding? They'd be called "Heroes"!

Real Heroes dont demand Paychecks. Their actions are Selfless and protect the lives of the innocents.

[tod evans]

It's really sad that so many are making excuses for, or empathizing with, cops who killed a child in cold blood.

Just proves to me that a society such as this is doomed.

The panty-wastes out in Ca. will put out flowers and seek therapy but those murders will not be held accountable.

[puppetmaster]

It's really sad that so many are making excuses for, or empathizing with, cops who killed a child in cold blood.

Just proves to me that a society such as this is doomed.

The panty-wastes out in Ca. will put out flowers and seek therapy but those murders will not be held accountable.

They will skate and foolish people will feel safe


If a cop kills one of my kids it will one of the last things they do

[Henry Rogue]

OP article should be added to "Police Abuse" thread.

[Henry Rogue]

Sue the cops PERSONALLY. Once you win, sue the county and state. I wonder, how often are cops sued personally? Most people can't afford to sue. Lawyers like cases that earn them big profits. Lawyers may push their clients to sue municipalities instead where profit margin is greater. End result, cop doesn't get sued, tax payer does. If only there was a civil rights advocacy group that could sue on the peoples behalf, oh, that's right, the aclu. LOL. The aclu would go after the tax payer too.

[pcosmar]

I wonder, how often are cops sued personally?

Guessing,, very seldom.
Aside from the immunity from prosecution, they have powerful unions that pressure Government and courts.

It would be a tough fight,, if you could find a Lawyer that would go against the system that feeds him.

[Henry Rogue]

Guessing,, very seldom.
Aside from the immunity from prosecution, they have powerful unions that pressure Government and courts.

It would be a tough fight,, if you could find a Lawyer that would go against the system that feeds him. I thought that as well. I posted something to that effect once and someone replied that cops do not have immunity from lawsuits. I suppose some states could be different.

[tod evans]

I thought that as well. I posted something to that effect once and someone replied that cops do not have immunity from lawsuits. I suppose some states could be different.

Whether the immunity is explicit or implicit it's all part of the "Just-Us" system that needs to end.

[Cleaner44]

I can't help but notice a theme that the story is the police thought the gun was real. Uh... even if it were a real gun, carrying a gun is NOT a justification for killing a person. It is not like there were reports of him shooting people or anything. The cops just rolled up on a person and shot him because he was holding a gun. So now bearing arms is to be considered justifiable homicide?

[phill4paul]

SMFH. I really have nothing to say at this point that wouldn't cross forum guidelines.

[green73]

Will Grigg (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/a-fearful-police-mindset-leads-to-a-dead-child/):


A “Fearful” Police Mindset Leads to a Dead Child

“The deputy’s mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot,” said Lt. Paul Henry of the Santa Rosa Police Department by way of explaining how 13-year-old Andy Lopez, who was “armed” with a BB gun, was gunned on October 22. (http://www.sacbee.com/2013/10/23/5847457/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot.html)

Lopez was on his way to visit a classmate named Luis Diaz when he was spotted by Sonoma County Sheriff’s Deputies on routine patrol (http://my.earthlink.net/article/us?guid=20131023/f6d9fe92-1182-49a6-a3e9-92397a2e03f0). He was carrying an airsoft “rifle” — a plastic toy that fires plastic BBs — that superficially resembles an AK-47 rifle, but can easily be identified as a toy by casual observers. Diaz told the Santa Rosa Press-Democra (http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131023/articles/131029842)t that the last time he saw Lopez use the gun “it fell and the whole front of it broke in half so you could see the wires coming out…. You could tell it’s fake, easily.”

During a press conference held in the wake of the fatal shooting, police displayed the airsoft toy next to an actual AK-47, apparently for the purpose of demonstrating how similar the replica is to the real article. However, “in the light of the Finley Center the model Lopez carried was clearly plastic with a transparent center section. The BB gun also had a shorter barrel.” The fatal encounter between Lopez and the deputies took place at 3:15 in the afternoon, which means that such critical details were not obscured by twilight, and should have been recognized by people who are supposedly trained observers.

After spotting Lopez walking on the sidewalk, the deputies called for backup and pulled up behind him. They drew their guns, took cover behind the vehicle’s open doors, and ordered Lopez to “drop the gun.” The youngster, who was about 20 to 30 feet away from the officers, turned around to face the deputies — and was immediately shot. The entire encounter — from the time the deputies called for backup, to the fatal shooting — to just a few seconds.

According to Lt. Henry, the deputy who opened fire was a “law enforcement veteran” who “has quite a bit of experience with this kind of weapon,” meaning, presumably, an actual AK-47, rather than an obvious toy replica. “He’s aware of the damage these kinds of weapons can do” and that they can fire rounds able to “penetrate body armor, can penetrate the metal of his vehicle, and also the sides of houses and buildings in the area.”

Although that statement was offered by way of extenuation, it underscores the preoccupation with “officer safety” that leads to unnecessary police shootings. A peace officer is paid to assume certain risks, including those necessary to de-escalate a confrontation with someone believed to be a heavily armed suspect in a residential neighborhood. A “veteran” deputy with the mindset of a peace officer would have taken more than a shaved fraction of a split-second to open fire on a small male individual readily identifiable as a junior high school student, who was carrying an object that is easily recognizable as a toy — at least to people who don’t see themselves as an army of occupation, and view the public as an undifferentiated mass of menace.

[Henry Rogue]

Whether the immunity is explicit or implicit it's all part of the "Just-Us" system that needs to end.
True.

[Henry Rogue]

According to Lt. Henry, the deputy who opened fire was a “law enforcement veteran” who “has quite a bit of experience with this kind of weapon,” meaning, presumably, an actual AK-47, rather than an obvious toy replica. “He’s aware of the damage these kinds of weapons can do” and that they can fire rounds able to “penetrate body armor, can penetrate the metal of his vehicle, and also the sides of houses and buildings in the area.”
So, is Lt. Henry a good cop or a bad cop?.... I don't care, because he is part of a system that perpetuates such abuse. A system that needs to be abolished. This in response to that other thread.

[Athan]

I never said that. But I have read dozens of these threads on here, and every time people glaze over details and go right for the "kill the cops" line. You weren't there, I wasn't there, no one posting here witnessed what happened. They could have been justified, they could have been totally out of line. But my point is that I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

Let me put it to you in a way you understand.

First the good cops in the law enforcement industry don't get attacked by anyone in these forms. The scumbag that did this is not a good cop, he like other cops are paid well, and in NO WAY SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN THE AUTHORITY THEY ARE GIVEN to act impulsively like an idiot soccer mom and tears morgan in a possible gun scenario. Especially when firing a weapon at what could be a fucking kid (i'm angry at the cops here not you btw) before even GIVING HIM A CHANCE to drop his "weapon".

Understand? They receive THOUSANDS of dollars, TRAIN, not to act like rabid dog with a gun. So what does he do? He acts like Rosie o'fucking Donald, when he hears of a person with a weapon, and starts popping rounds like the very lunatic he is paid to defend the society from. Remember that you are getting upset, that citizens here on "our internetz" are ridiculing A LUNATIC WITH A GUN. Your reason?! Simply because he has a badge! As a gun owner, I am appalled.

Cops even deal with the court of law and should have more than the average awareness for the laws of our land. Now, do you understand?

The way this idiot acted had NOTHING to do with fearing for his life. What he did was ROUTINE procedure and is only shocking because the truth of the incident finally dawned on the cops because the media got a hold of it. This is a clear indication of corrupt cultural and unconstitutional behavior in their department. That you call for back up if you receive a call of a possible weapon, SHOOT first, then ask your questions later, because the courts and department will get you off later eventually.

If police department really had a better standard they wouldn't even BOTHER trying to make excuses for what happened. It would be no comment, unpaid leave for dumbass, and try to work with the community to help them cope.

They as a organization have NO concern to INVESTIGATE, deescalate a situation, stay calm in the line of duty, no professionalism with caution, and certainly no regard for the life that may be taken. Remember this next time you see a cop attack story. The good cops don't GET criticized by us. In a nation with millions in the police force, posters are showing you what the bottom scum of the barrel have done. Good cops don't NEED to worry about you defending them or their organizations. Hell criticism will help them clear their trade of the scum if anything.

[aGameOfThrones]

Murderer!


http://thestrangestbrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/f-em.jpg


I hope dad gets justice.

[Anti Federalist]

Yup.

You might not even be given the chance to comply.

I'll bet less than 2 seconds elapsed before they wasted this kid.


After spotting Lopez walking on the sidewalk, the deputies called for backup and pulled up behind him. They drew their guns, took cover behind the vehicle’s open doors, and ordered Lopez to “drop the gun.” The youngster, who was about 20 to 30 feet away from the officers, turned around to face the deputies — and was immediately shot. The entire encounter — from the time the deputies called for backup, to the fatal shooting — to just a few seconds.

What do I win?

[Anti Federalist]

A “veteran” deputy with the mindset of a peace officer would have taken more than a shaved fraction of a split-second to open fire on a small male individual readily identifiable as a junior high school student, who was carrying an object that is easily recognizable as a toy — at least to people who don’t see themselves as an army of occupation, and view the public as an undifferentiated mass of menace.

[amy31416]

The moment both of these cops realized their mistake, they should have collapsed, wept, torn off their badges, and screamed uncontrollably, "What have we done?!"

If they didn't, then they're sociopaths. If the agency they work for is fine with that, then they're either deliberately hiring sociopaths, or actively training those who work for them to become sociopaths.

100%

I'm all for this sentiment being included in the sympathy cards that someone else suggested, along with personally suing the cops...and I'm talking about the entire town bringing a lawsuit against the cops and perhaps the chief or whomever trained them.

[aGameOfThrones]

Harry: Ken, if I had killed a little kid, accidentally or otherwise, I wouldn't have thought twice. I'd killed myself on the fucking spot. On the fucking spot. I would've stuck the gun in me mouth. On the fucking spot!

http://static.rogerebert.com/redactor_assets/pictures/far-flung-correspondents/somewhere-between-heaven-and-hell/in-bruges-ralph-shoots-himself.jpg

[aGameOfThrones]

100%

I'm all for this sentiment being included in the sympathy cards that someone else suggested, along with personally tying the cops...and I'm talking about the entire town getting a rope for the cops and perhaps the chief or whomever trained them.


I changed a few words.

[green73]

Shot 7 times

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/25/13-year-old-with-pellet-gun-shot-7-times-by-sheriff-deputy-autopsy-finds/

[Lucille]

Officer who Shot Toy Rifle-Holding Teen Had Pulled Gun During Traffic Stop a Few Months Ago
http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/04/officer-who-shot-toy-rifle-holding-teen


Sometimes reckless officer behavior that doesn't kill someone can be a sign, as reported in the UK Daily Mail:


A driver has come forward saying the deputy who shot dead a 13-year-old California boy after mistaking his fake AK-47 as real pulled a gun on him also, after he failed to signal a lane change during a carpool.

Jeff Westbrook, 57, of Santa Rosa said he was mistreated by Deputy Erick Gelhaus after being pulled over Aug. 21 in Cotati, so much so that at one point he asked Gelhaus: 'Sir, is there something wrong with you?'

'I felt like I was watching somebody I needed to help,' Mr Westbrook, a program manager at an information technology company, told CBS of Gelhaus.

'This was not right. He did not manage this correctly.'

Gelhaus shot Andy Lopez seven times at a Santa Rosa parking after recieving reports of a suspicious and believing his toy machine gun was real.

Mr Westbrook was pulled over by Gelhaus for not using his indicator.

He said he pulled into a shoulder, but offered to move the car forward because there was not much room next to the driver door for Gelhaus.

When the car started moving, Gelhaus is alleged to have drawn his gun.

'It was about a foot from by face,' Westbrook said.

'I've never had a gun pointed at me before.'

[Occam's Banana]

Shot 7 times

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/25/13-year-old-with-pellet-gun-shot-7-times-by-sheriff-deputy-autopsy-finds/

SMMFGDH ...

[bolil]

I never heard of a Hell's Angel gunning down a kid. And they are considered the outlaws?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

...I am getting tired of us tearing people down on our "internetz" without facts.

You know what I am getting tired of? I'm getting tired of these cases where the facts are fully known, often displayed in unmistakable raw footage. The facts are right there, but these dirty pieces of filth still get away with it.

That's what I'm getting tired of.

[Intoxiklown]

You cry 24/7 about police brutality.

Dude, are you actually saying that losing your mind to the insane over cops murdering us daily is considered crying?

[tod evans]

Dude, are you actually saying that losing your mind to the insane over cops murdering us daily is considered crying?

The rest of his post calls for action, and not the "strongly worded letter" type.

[green73]

Welcome Back, Killer (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/welcome-back-killer/)
William Norman Grigg (http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/william-norman-grigg/?post_type=lrc-blog)

http://www.lewrockwell.com/assets/2013/12/Welcome-Back-Killer-300x281.jpg (http://www.lewrockwell.com/assets/2013/12/Welcome-Back-Killer.jpg)
(With apologies to John Sebastian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGlY3ubGzUY))

Welcome back — your badge was your ticket out….

Erick Gelhaus (http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-and-careers/articles/6656279-Calif-cop-who-killed-teen-armed-with-replica-back-on-duty/), the Sonoma County, California Sheriff’s Deputy who gunned down 13-year-old Andy Lopez on October 22, has returned to “duty.” (http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/a-fearful-police-mindset-leads-to-a-dead-child/)

Gelhaus and an unidentified deputy spotted Lopez walking to a friend’s house carrying what was mistakenly believed to be an AK-47 rifle. The “weapon” was actually a plastic BB gun that fired plastic pellets. It is smaller than the actual rifle and has a transparent plastic middle section. The encounter took place at 3:15 PM on a brightly-lit day, which means that the “weapon” would have been recognized as a toy if Gelhaus would have taken a second or two to get a good look at it.

After calling in a report of an armed suspect, Gelhaus ordered the other deputy — a trainee — to pull up about twenty to thirty feet behind the Middle School-age boy. Gelhaus drew his gun, took cover behind a door, and ordered Lopez to “drop the gun.” The youngster, reacting instinctively to an unfamiliar — and unidentified — voice, turned to face the deputies. Gelhaus reacted by firing seven shots. All of this took place within the space of about ten seconds.

Lt. Paul Henry of the Santa Rosa Police Department, which is investigating the shooting, explained that Gelhaus’s “mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot.” A 24-year veteran who was a firing range instructor, Gelhaus offered a glimpse into his fear-saturated mindset in an article published by SWAT magazine in 2008:

“Today is the day you may need to kill someone in order to go home. If you cannot turn on the `mean gene’ for yourself, who will?… Taking some kind of action — any kind of action — is critical.”

In other words: You must be prepared to kill at the first intimation of a threat to “officer safety.”

Because he lives at the intersection of panic and paranoia, Gelhaus is primed to kill with very little provocation. Two months before he gunned down Andy Lopez without bothering to find out if the boy actually posed a threat, Gelhaus drew a gun during a traffic stop involving Santa Rosa resident Jeffrey Westbrook (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/10/31/man-says-sonoma-deputy-who-shot-boy-pointed-gun-at-him-during-traffic-stop/). Gelhaus had pulled over Westbrook for failing to use his turn signal.

The traffic stop took place on a narrow shoulder near a steep hillside, and Westbrook asked if he could move the car in order to make more room for the officer. Gelhaus reacted by pulling his gun and pointing it at the terrified driver’s head.

When Westbrook learned that Gelhaus was the officer who had fatally shot Lopez, he found himself wondering if “maybe something could have been done” to rein in the bellicose deputy before he killed somebody.

Gelhaus has been restricted to desk duty until the familiar ritual of exoneration reaches its foreordained conclusion. ..

[Red Green]

I hope this fucktard gets cancer of the balls. Seriously.

[WM_in_MO]

It's ok. He was wearing a magical uniform that makes it just fine.

[mrsat_98]

I hope this fucktard gets cancer of the balls. Seriously.

Boff 'em ?

[Red Green]

Boff 'em ?

Yeah, wouldn't want this douche breeding.

[osan]

The replica gun resembled an AK-47 with a black magazine cartridge and brown butt, according to a photograph released by the sheriff's office. Deputies would only learn after the shooting that it wasn't an actual firearm, according to O'Leary.

So they were atop the situation where evidence in their defense was concerned. Compare with this"


It wasn't clear whether he pointed the replica assault rifle at the deputies or made any type of threatening gesture.

Now, if it was clearly and unequivocally the case that the boy had "threatened" them with the assault toy, what odds would you give that a statement to that fact would have been very rapidly forthcoming? I seem to recall this in many cases where the "authorities" (HA!) are eager to immediately regurgitate an officer's claim that he'd been "threatened". Thus far silence. What does that suggest, at least plausibly?

And I wonder what, in the eyes of these esteemed and monumentally courageous heroes who risk their lives minute by minute to save us from the certain death that would visit us all were they not there as selfless shields and angels of salvation, do they regard as "threatening".


The sheriff's office referred calls to the Santa Rosa Police Department, which did not immediately return a call for comment.

Why would these brave men and womyn do such a thing? No matter - I am certain it is all for our own good. The greater good.

All HAIL!

All BOW!

All SERVICE!

[osan]

Sue the cops PERSONALLY. Once you win, sue the county and state.

Sue? To what end? Besides, are there not laws and unions and hip-pocket prosecutors and judges in place to protect the faithful lapdog from the unjust predations of the mundane?

Hunt them. Apprehend them. Try them. Convict them. Sentence them. Carry forth sentence and post the heads on the ends of pikes in public places for all to behold that they may serve as bright warnings to the rest of the lapdogs of what awaits them in the event they stray from the narrow way that is right and proper to all men.

[osan]

Will they ever be held accountable?

That's a rhetorical question - right?

[osan]

Yup.

You might not even be given the chance to comply.

I'll bet less than 2 seconds elapsed before they wasted this kid.

I bet you're right.

[osan]

Actually, if I were the father I would take vengeance.

Were I that boy's father, I would embark upon a diabolical campaign of vengeance. Those two are murderers and I would see justice served at my own hands as is the sovereign right of all men. Fuck the "state" and their candy-assed sissy rules. Those two would suffer so grievously that God himself would descend from the heavens, appalled, and remove them from my hands. The devil himself would lie in the dirt of hell's bottom, quaking and vomiting with the fearful thought that one day he would find himself in the presence of one such as myself.

And yet, most of the world shrugs its shoulders and goes on as if nothing of import has happened.

[seyferjm]

I have to recommend against checking that PoliceOne site. I did last night and felt sickened by the level of authority worship and boot-licking going on in the comments.

[pcosmar]

I have to recommend against checking that PoliceOne site. I did last night and felt sickened by the level of authority worship and boot-licking going on in the comments.

I find it educational in a "Know your Enemy" sort of way.

[Brian4Liberty]

Latest update on this story. Will there ever be any accountability?


Court Rejects Immunity For Sonoma Deputy Who Shot Andy Lopez
September 22, 2017

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — A federal appeals court says there is ample evidence for a jury to conclude that a North Bay teenager carrying a toy gun did not pose an immediate danger to a sheriff’s deputy who shot and killed him.

A divided three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on Friday refused to find Sonoma County Sheriff’s Deputy Erick Gelhaus exempt from liability for the 2013 shooting of 13-year-old Andy Lopez in Santa Rosa.
...
More: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/09/22/andy-lopez-shooting-9th-circuit-court-rejects-deputy-immunity/

[Brian4Liberty]

Once again, move along, nothing to see here. No need for protests or burning down the town on this one. It was a much too clear-cut example of a bad shooting, not to mention that the kid is not appropriately dark for BLM.

[Brian4Liberty]

...


Wrongful death lawsuit in Andy Lopez case can move forward
SAN FRANCISCO (KTVU)

- A federal appeals court has court has upheld a wrongful death lawsuit brought by the family of a 13-year-old boy who was shot and killed by a Sonoma county sheriff’s deputy four years ago in Santa Rosa.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals said there is ample evidence for a jury to conclude that 13-year-old Andy Lopez did not pose an immediate danger to Deputy Erick Gelhaus, when Gelhaus shot him seven times.

Lopez was holding a very realistic looking airsoft rifle. Gelhaus said he thought it was a real gun.

The court said there is evidence that the boy did not raise the barrel of the gun as Gelhaus claimed.

Despite widespread protests, prosecutors decided not to pursue charges against Deputy Gelhaus.

Gelhaus is still with the sheriff’s department and has been promoted to sergeant.
...
More: http://www.ktvu.com/news/wrongful-death-lawsuit-in-andy-lopez-case-can-move-forward

[Anti Federalist]

Latest update on this story. Will there ever be any accountability?

No, there won't.

Especially now that the asshole left has turned the whole thing into a freak show, right when it looked like there may have been some real pushback.

[Raginfridus]

..If the gendarme want to go home alive, what are they waiting for?


https://youtu.be/t8HCwLPoG70

[angelatc]

he court said there is evidence that the boy did not raise the barrel of the gun as Gelhaus claimed.

Despite widespread protests, prosecutors decided not to pursue charges against Deputy Gelhaus.

This is the thing. They circle their wagons. The prosecutors have to pretend to at least try to build a case, but they don't have to be especially aggressive about it. Even when these things go to trial, the prosecutors settle for building a case that's barely adequate, subtly giving the jury every reasonable doubt in the world.

[sparebulb]

It would appear to me that it can be a concluded fact that the boy did not raise his toy gun at the kop by the fact that it was stated that the toy was found tucked in the boy's waistband.

Unless they want to claim that the boy had terrrrrrist training and that he exhibited a high level of discipline in stowing his "weapon" while being shot several times...........