Craigslist makes turning food stamps into cash a SNAP

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/22/craigslist-makes-turning-food-stamps-into-cash-snap/?cmpid=GoogleNewsEditorsPicks&google_editors_picks=true

Food stamp recipients are turning the government handouts into quick cash with ads on Craigslist, despite efforts to stem fraud.

The federally-funded grocery assistance coupons -- which are issued by states in the form of debit cards under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) -- are being sold on the online bulletin board as well as auction sites like eBay. FoxNews.com found several offerings at Craigslist sites around the country, where the sellers offered the welfare benefits at large discounts from face value.

“If you need food. This is not a gimmick or game,” read one posting from Philadelphia. “Please let me know, I have food stamps for sale..... Serious Replies only!!!”

“I have $500 worth and it costs $350 cash. No I will not do half!” read another posting from the Atlanta area. “I don't need to sell. If you would like to get an extra $150 to $175 in grocery and pay no taxes and can see the benefit that you will still be saving then email me or call me and we can arrange the whole deal as soon as you like.”

Those who are desperately hungry are also taking to the website, offering cash for the stamps.

“DO YOU NEED SOME QUICK CASH?? -- $100 (atlanta),” read the title of one such post, under which the buyer offered: "If you get Food Stamps and need some extra cash then hit me asap,” reads the post.

In another posting from the Trenton, N.J., area, the seller claims that he will have a $100 EBT card available on Nov. 1 for $60.

Contacted by FoxNews.com and asked about the legality of such a transaction, the seller cryptically responded: "Lol are u serious is the govt legal of course but I hve a customer Good day [sic]."

The coupons are not supposed to be transferred, and Craigslist's policy lists them among the items that are not allowed to be sold or bartered on the site. But unless someone flags such a post, there's little the sites, which operate in small, medium and large markets around the country, can do. Critics suspect sellers either don't need them any more because they have found work, or simply want to exchange them for cash so that they can buy drugs or other items that are not permitted under the rules of the program.

"Fraud and abuse do take place in the food stamps program," Rachel Sheffield, policy analyst, Heritage Foundation's DeVos Center for Religion and Civil Society said to FoxNews.com. "There are other types of fraud that also are problematic, such as recipients receiving excess benefits by failing to report a new job or an increase in their earnings.

"To reduce this type of fraud, states should be required to cross-check the food stamp rolls against the National Directory of New Hires. Those who have failed to inform the food stamp office of new employment should have their benefits suspended."

Sheffield also suggests that adults recipients should be required to re-certify for the assistance program every three months to help prevent widespread fraud.

Nearly 50 million Americans are on the food stamp program, which has exploded over the last five years, more than doubling the cost to taxpayers. The Electronic Benefits Transfer (EBT) cards are issued to needy citizens who qualify, and then replenished each month with buying power. Because the cards do not include a photo ID, a recipient who is looking to sell his or her benefits for cash can simply do so and then report them stolen or lost and be issued a replacement. They could also charge a buyer much more, and never report the card as missing, effectively transferring their entitlement benefits for cash.

In May of 2012, the USDA attempted to curb the practice by giving individual states more authority to investigate residents who request multiple replacements of SNAP and EBT cards. Those who requested more than four replacements in a year would have to explain why they lost cards, and could face being cut off completely.

“The U.S. Department of Agriculture has zero tolerance for SNAP fraud," a USDA spokesperson said in a statement to FoxNews.com. "We recently provided stronger tools to help State agencies—responsible for pursuing recipient fraud—crack down on individuals attempting to sell benefits online. In addition, since 2011, we have worked with online marketplaces, including Craigslist, to better monitor and put a stop to the illegal sale of SNAP benefits. USDA encourages anyone that has information regarding potential recipient fraud to report this information to the USDA Office of the Inspector General or to their State agency.”

With one in every seven Americans on food stamps -- up a million since June of last year -- the impetus to cut down on fraud is rising. According to reports, nearly 850,000 people were investigated for possible SNAP fraud in the United States and 1,200 stores were permanently removed from the food stamp program for illegal conduct.

"Since 2008, the cost of SNAP has more than doubled from $34 billion to $74 billion," according to Rep. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D. who said in a recent press release that the Obama administration has allowed food stamp enrollment to explode, even beyond what an ailing economy might account for, in part by not pressing states to crack down on eligibility requirements.

-t

[tod evans]

Just one more reason to stop the free shit.

[MelissaWV]

Just one more reason to stop the free shit.

*looks at paycheck* Hmm it doesn't look free from here :(

[tod evans]

*looks at paycheck* Hmm it doesn't look free from here :(

It's not for those who work...

[jkob]

There is literally no way to stop food stamp fraud, they would literally need to watch the person eat the food in order to stop people from trading them for cash. Either you tolerate the abuse or you scrap the entire program.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Make a buck any way you can. :/

[newbitech]

Contacted by FoxNews.com and asked about the legality of such a transaction, the seller cryptically responded: "Lol are u serious is the govt legal of course but I hve a customer Good day [sic]."

great question!

[tod evans]

There is literally no way to stop food stamp fraud, they would literally need to watch the person eat the food in order to stop people from trading them for cash. Either you tolerate the abuse or you scrap the entire program.

Scrap it, every bit of it!

[brandon]

Do you need to show id to use the card? If not, why not?

Hiw do you verify the card youre buying is worth what they say it is worth?

I wouldnt mind getting 500 in groceries for 350 if this is legit, lol. Do the cards expire?

[tod evans]

Do you need to show id to use the card? If not, why not?

Hiw do you verify the card youre buying is worth what they say it is worth?

I wouldnt mind getting 500 in groceries for 350 if this is legit, lol. Do the cards expire?

If your morals permit you to do this then march on down to section 8 housing and drive some junkie to the store and trade cash for groceries.

Don't get caught using or even buying some body elses free-food card.

[MRK]

There is literally no way to stop food stamp fraud, they would literally need to watch the person eat the food in order to stop people from trading them for cash. Either you tolerate the abuse or you scrap the entire program.

That sounds like the silver bullet jobs program that can bring us back to full employment.

We need a monitor for every 50 million people on food stamps, plus the obligatory bureaucracy to monitor the monitors.

Krugman would strongly approve.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Do you need to show id to use the card? If not, why not?

Hiw do you verify the card youre buying is worth what they say it is worth?

I wouldnt mind getting 500 in groceries for 350 if this is legit, lol. Do the cards expire?

Interesting perspective. Purchasing second hand stolen goods. Stealing from the government who stole from you. (taxes). So basically, stealing your own money back.

I guess a lot of people think like that. Then again, most people receiving food stamps aren't paying taxes either.

-t

[jbauer]

There is literally no way to stop food stamp fraud, they would literally need to watch the person eat the food in order to stop people from trading them for cash. Either you tolerate the abuse or you scrap the entire program.

Sounds great scrap the whole program. Problem solved

[jbauer]

That sounds like the silver bullet jobs program that can bring us back to full employment.

We need a monitor for every 50 million people on food stamps, plus the obligatory bureaucracy to monitor the monitors.

Krugman would strongly approve.

This is a great idea. The NSA can record every communication. Why in the world can't they stop food stamp fraud?

[jbauer]

Interesting perspective. Purchasing second hand stolen goods. Stealing from the government who stole from you. (taxes). So basically, stealing your own money back.

I guess a lot of people think like that. Then again, most people receiving food stamps aren't paying taxes either.

-t

I'm not advocating theft, but if your neighbor steals your car and you take it back is that theft?

[erowe1]

I'm not comfortable signing up for food stamps. But I could see paying money for them this way and saving on my food costs. I'll have to think about getting in on this action.

[erowe1]

I wouldnt mind getting 500 in groceries for 350 if this is legit, lol. Do the cards expire?

Why does it matter if it's legit? Unless you're worried about getting caught.

[tod evans]

I'm not comfortable signing up for food stamps. But I could see paying money for them this way and saving on my food costs. I'll have to think about getting in on this action.



Don't get caught using or even buying some body elses free-food card.

^^^^^

[brandon]

Why does it matter if it's legit? Unless you're worried about getting caught.

I'm worried about getting ripped off. See the rest of my questions.

[presence]

Stolen and sold entitlements aside, what do you guys think of 'entitlements' in terms of 'earmarks': Sign up for everything you can get, vote for politicians that won't give it to you. Beyond income tax, either way you're getting taxed, at the least by money printing inflation. From a tax reduction perspective, whats wrong w/ viewing entitlements as a reduction of your own tax burden?



“Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

Billings Learned Hand

[tod evans]

Stolen and sold entitlements aside, what do you guys think of 'entitlements' in terms of 'earmarks': Sign up for everything you can get, vote for politicians that won't give it to you. Beyond income tax, either way you're getting taxed, at the least by money printing inflation. From a tax reduction perspective, whats wrong w/ viewing entitlements as a reduction of your own tax burden?

Personally I have morality issues.

I can't accept free shit one day and preach against it the next.

I can't condemn government in one sentence and then take advantage of it's "programs" in the next.

[Matthew5]

I actually sort of like this idea. The tax money has already been spent...it's not like the government agency handling the SNAP cards is going to give back any unused funds. They have a budget to justify! Seems like the free market works for even government goods. The $500 in food was going to get spent anyway, so why not make it mutually beneficial for two parties? The cardholder gets cash to use on other goods or foods (not eligible for SNAP purchase) while the purchaser gets $150 return on investment.

Trust me, as a former cashier at a box store, I can tell you that the $500 would have been spent on a block party or lake weekend anyway.

[oyarde]

I'm worried about getting ripped off. See the rest of my questions.

Just give me $9 and get back to work , lol

[Matthew5]

Personally I have morality issues.

I can't accept free shit one day and preach against it the next.

I can't condemn government in one sentence and then take advantage of it's "programs" in the next.

Some people try to take in equal amount that is stolen from them. Others have a "bleed 'em dry" approach. Some could take as much money from the government as possible and give it back to middle class families who are most burdened by taxes. Or why not cash in on a tax refund and turn around and give it to a homeless shelter?

I guess I could see arguments for both sides.

[oyarde]

It is immoral and UnConstitutional for the govt to take it from you and give it to others .This is the role of private charity , not govt . it does not suddenly make it moral for any of you to use these .

[UtahApocalypse]

Not quite the same subject but in topic.....

Michigan you can purchase soda with SNAP/EBT this includes the $.10 a can or bottle recycling deposit. You then can return them for cash. Another small cash return off handouts.

[presence]

Personally I have morality issues.

I can't accept free shit one day and preach against it the next.

I can't condemn government in one sentence and then take advantage of it's "programs" in the next.



But if you earmark an entitlement for yourself, are you really "accepting free shit" or simply "reducing your tax burden"?


"taking a tax credit" as Ron says:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BWTyHbGcUQY

[erowe1]

It is immoral and UnConstitutional for the govt to take it from you and give it to others .This is the role of private charity , not govt . it does not suddenly make it moral for any of you to use these .

It doesn't make immoral for any of us to use them either.

[XNavyNuke]

Do you need to show id to use the card? If not, why not?

Really? A government issued ID card to use a government issued SNAP card? Of, wait! We have RealID now. There's no such thing as ID fraud anymore.

XNN

[Acala]

There is literally no way to stop food stamp fraud, they would literally need to watch the person eat the food in order to stop people from trading them for cash. Either you tolerate the abuse or you scrap the entire program.

Yup.

[seapilot]

Not quite the same subject but in topic.....

Michigan you can purchase soda with SNAP/EBT this includes the $.10 a can or bottle recycling deposit. You then can return them for cash. Another small cash return off handouts.

I have heard stories of people buying cases of soda with those snap cards then going out into the parking lot dumping it and taking the cans back inside to collect the deposits on them for cash.

[tod evans]

But if you earmark an entitlement for yourself, are you really "accepting free shit" or simply "reducing your tax burden"?


I don't feel the need to over think or justify my position, I'm not comfortable partaking in any free shit programs and have no intention of doing so.

[Rothbardian Girl]

This is part of the reason why a negative income tax would probably be a better idea than the system we have in place now. The NIT is still not ideal, but people focused on stopping the fraud and waste that inevitably arise from these programs should probably look at it as an alternative to screaming that the sky is falling down and that we need to end these programs NOW.

[tangent4ronpaul]

I have heard stories of people buying cases of soda with those snap cards then going out into the parking lot dumping it and taking the cans back inside to collect the deposits on them for cash.

Seriously? - THe pay back on AL cans is pretty pitiful. I would think they sould go out and try to sell them. The last fair we went to, water was selling for $2.50 the first place, $1.25 the second, $1.00 the third and FREE the last 2 places (both churches).

In a pop machine, it's like $0.50 to $1.00 a can. They might have gotten $0.15-0.20 for 6 cases worth of AL cans... :rolleyes: OK, maybe slightly more - but deff under $1

-t

[tangent4ronpaul]

This is part of the reason why a negative income tax would probably be a better idea than the system we have in place now. The NIT is still not ideal, but people focused on stopping the fraud and waste that inevitably arise from these programs should probably look at it as an alternative to screaming that the sky is falling down and that we need to end these programs NOW.

Interesting new icon. New? Artist? Looks slightly familiar...

-t

[Rothbardian Girl]

Interesting new icon. New? Artist? Looks slightly familiar...

-t
I'm surprised that you would know it -- it's the album cover for Vashti Bunyan's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vashti_Bunyan) second album, "Lookaftering" (released in 2005).

[erowe1]

I'm surprised that you would know it -- it's the album cover for Vashti Bunyan's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vashti_Bunyan) second album, "Lookaftering" (released in 2005).

Are you sure it's not also from somewhere else?

It seems vaguely familiar to me too.

ETA: A google reverse image search turns up nothing but that album. So I guess not.

[Eagles' Wings]

I'm surprised that you would know it -- it's the album cover for Vashti Bunyan's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vashti_Bunyan) second album, "Lookaftering" (released in 2005).I was curious so I brought up one her songs on youtube. Very nice - I am going to order a CD from the library.

[69360]

There is going to be a small amount of fraud in any segment of society, government or business. I'm sure we can all tell stories about welfare queens in cadillacs. But lets be realistic in that 99% of people who have snap cards are not selling them for crack.

If we weren't sending trillions of dollars overseas and spending trillions on the mic, the country wouldn't be in a debt crisis and spending on welfare would be an afterthought not even worth discussing.

I guess I'm saying don't get sidetracked on minor issues like this and keep your eye on the big picture.

[erowe1]

There is going to be a small amount of fraud in any segment of society, government or business. I'm sure we can all tell stories about welfare queens in cadillacs. But lets be realistic in that 99% of people who have snap cards are not selling them for crack.

If we weren't sending trillions of dollars overseas and spending trillions on the mic, the country wouldn't be in a debt crisis and spending on welfare would be an afterthought not even worth discussing.

I guess I'm saying don't get sidetracked on minor issues like this and keep your eye on the big picture.

I must be looking at this from the exact opposite angle.

To me, the food stamps themselves are the only bad thing here. The existence of a black market is the silver lining that makes them just a little less bad.

[69360]

I must be looking at this from the exact opposite angle.

To me, the food stamps themselves are the only bad thing here. The existence of a black market is the silver lining that makes them just a little less bad.

But if our country was prosperous with a healthy economy, how many would even care about the relatively small spending on welfare in comparison to what we've spent on warfare and overseas in the last 12 years? I think very few.

If the government is going to spend on welfare, wouldn't you rather it be for our people and not another countries?

Getting outraged about a few miscreants selling snap cards just isn't worth our time. The liberals and the warmongers both want us to be sidetracked on minor issues like this. It makes us look foolish and allows them to further their agenda and write us off as nut jobs.

[erowe1]

But if our country was prosperous with a healthy economy, how many would even care about the relatively small spending on welfare in comparison to what we've spent on warfare and overseas in the last 12 years? I think very few.

I don't see the health of the economy and welfare spending as two independent variables. To have a healthy economy means not to have state-run welfare programs.



Getting outraged about a few miscreants selling snap cards just isn't worth our time.

But that was my point. Who's getting outraged about that? That's the one good part of this story.

[oyarde]

But if our country was prosperous with a healthy economy, how many would even care about the relatively small spending on welfare in comparison to what we've spent on warfare and overseas in the last 12 years? I think very few.

If the government is going to spend on welfare, wouldn't you rather it be for our people and not another countries?

Getting outraged about a few miscreants selling snap cards just isn't worth our time. The liberals and the warmongers both want us to be sidetracked on minor issues like this. It makes us look foolish and allows them to further their agenda and write us off as nut jobs.

I will be pleased when all welfare is ended.

[tod evans]

I will be pleased when all welfare is ended.

I don't see that happening as long as government is an industry unto itself that supports it...

But yeah, I too want it gone.

[69360]

I don't see the health of the economy and welfare spending as two independent variables. To have a healthy economy means not to have state-run welfare programs.


I will be pleased when all welfare is ended.


But you will never, ever elect a president in this country campaigning on a sudden end to welfare. You can't even elect a senator on that anymore, maybe a congressman still in some areas.

You have to take a benevolent dictator approach to it, we'll take of you for now and ease our way out of this. You have to take a very soft approach to it or the liberals will pounce on you instantly and say you are taking away grandma's ss and the poor single mother with 8 kid's snap. The liberals foam at the mouth about running attack ads against conservatives who want to take away welfare. Because of this it will take a generation or two to ease out of welfare and back to a healthy economy with low unemployment. It's just the way it is.

A good starting point that we could get the liberals to compromise on is to stop wasting money overseas. Put it to them point blank, do you want to spend money over there or feed people here? Your choice, we can't afford both anymore.

[brandon]

But lets be realistic in that 99% of people who have snap cards are not selling them for crack.


The majority of them are likely using them for food so they have more disposable cash for weed, alcohol, and cigarettes.

[oyarde]

The majority of them are likely using them for food so they have more disposable cash for weed, alcohol, and cigarettes.
Gasoline , I phones , cell bills , cable bills etc

[Rothbardian Girl]

Again, Milton Friedman is screaming at you all from beyond the grave to consider a solution that would end all the (additional) bureaucracy associated with the food stamp program. Simply sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling that you want welfare to stop simply isn't going to work, for the reasons mentioned above. In addition, it would not be a very humane way to end the problem, considering these programs are simply crutches offered by the government to attempt to relieve some of the suffering caused by its intervention on the behalf of the privileged.

[erowe1]

Again, Milton Friedman is screaming at you all from beyond the grave to consider a solution that would end all the (additional) bureaucracy associated with the food stamp program. Simply sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling that you want welfare to stop simply isn't going to work, for the reasons mentioned above. In addition, it would not be a very humane way to end the problem, considering these programs are simply crutches offered by the government to attempt to relieve some of the suffering caused by its intervention on the behalf of the privileged.

I assume you're talking about the negative tax, right?

I don't really care about the additional bureaucracy.

I'm more inclined to agree with Friedman when he thanked Heaven that we don't get all the government we pay for.

[Rothbardian Girl]

I assume you're talking about the negative tax, right?

I don't really care about the additional bureaucracy.

I'm more inclined to agree with Friedman when he thanked Heaven that we don't get all the government we pay for.

Yes, I was speaking of the NIT. Reading some of your earlier posts, I figured the bureaucracy wouldn't be so much of an issue so much as the existence of the program itself. I suppose I don't really have enough information about some of the other posters in this thread and why they oppose welfare programs. I guess my view is, if they oppose welfare because they have to pay for it, they might do themselves more favors with advocating a solution that does not have them paying for it, at least not in a direct way. It's simply divorced from reality to say 'abolish it and replace it with nothing (no official policy)'.

[erowe1]

Yes, I was speaking of the NIT. Reading some of your earlier posts, I figured the bureaucracy wouldn't be so much of an issue so much as the existence of the program itself. I suppose I don't really have enough information about some of the other posters in this thread and why they oppose welfare programs. I guess my view is, if they oppose welfare because they have to pay for it, they might do themselves more favors with advocating a solution that does not have them paying for it, at least not in a direct way. It's simply divorced from reality to say 'abolish it and replace it with nothing (no official policy)'.

But if sticking to reality is your objective, then, in reality, it wouldn't be NIT instead of food stamps. It would be in addition to.

[jbauer]

Seriously? - THe pay back on AL cans is pretty pitiful. I would think they sould go out and try to sell them. The last fair we went to, water was selling for $2.50 the first place, $1.25 the second, $1.00 the third and FREE the last 2 places (both churches).

In a pop machine, it's like $0.50 to $1.00 a can. They might have gotten $0.15-0.20 for 6 cases worth of AL cans... :rolleyes: OK, maybe slightly more - but deff under $1

-t

Right but these folks aren't capitalists.

[bunklocoempire]

Stolen and sold entitlements aside, what do you guys think of 'entitlements' in terms of 'earmarks': Sign up for everything you can get, vote for politicians that won't give it to you. Beyond income tax, either way you're getting taxed, at the least by money printing inflation. From a tax reduction perspective, whats wrong w/ viewing entitlements as a reduction of your own tax burden?
“Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands.”

Billings Learned Hand

Totally sound logic for playing their hunger game.

I hate playing other people's games. I'd rather just stay as much out of their system as possible as a matter of principle and practice and preparation.

[presence]

Totally sound logic for playing their hunger game.

I hate playing other people's games. I'd rather just stay as much out of their system as possible as a matter of principle and practice and preparation.


So keep earning and paying taxes so they can spend it on bankers, wars, and entitlements for everyone else?


I can't help but feel cynical on either side of that fence.

[Philhelm]

It is immoral and UnConstitutional for the govt to take it from you and give it to others .This is the role of private charity , not govt . it does not suddenly make it moral for any of you to use these .

Morals, schmorals. Liberty is about vengeance!

Although, I would not do this simply because I would not wish to interact with the food stamp crowd if at all possible...I might catch something from their dirty hands.

[Philhelm]

There is going to be a small amount of fraud in any segment of society, government or business. I'm sure we can all tell stories about welfare queens in cadillacs. But lets be realistic in that 99% of people who have snap cards are not selling them for crack.

Perhaps, but I would wager that 90% of them have a more expensive cell-blue-tablet-android-app-phone-thinga-majigger than I do. Food stamps don't really pay for food, as even the thinnest of charities could feed people. We pay so that people can afford to have cool things without having to beg. I say fuck 'em all.

[69360]

The majority of them are likely using them for food so they have more disposable cash for weed, alcohol, and cigarettes.


Gasoline , I phones , cell bills , cable bills etc

Perhaps, but that's not not the same as selling the card.


Perhaps, but I would wager that 90% of them have a more expensive cell-blue-tablet-android-app-phone-thinga-majigger than I do. Food stamps don't really pay for food, as even the thinnest of charities could feed people. We pay so that people can afford to have cool things without having to beg. I say fuck 'em all.

That's what you call ghetto rich. Fancy phone and new car but live 20 people to an apartment in the inner city. Not much of a life compared to a person of similar income who owns a modest home in the country and lives within their means.

[Zippyjuan]

In California (and many other states) they don't use coupons for food stamps anymore. Money is loaded onto a debit- like card which requires a PIN number to use. If you sold the card and PIN that person would have access to all of your future benefits as well as this week's.

[69360]

In California (and many other states) they don't use coupons for food stamps anymore. Money is loaded onto a debit- like card which requires a PIN number to use. If you sold the card and PIN that person would have access to all of your future benefits as well as this week's.


Pretty sure the cards are nationwide now.

They fill the cards monthly, the miscreants selling benefits report the card lost and get a new one the next month.

[XNavyNuke]

Pretty sure the cards are nationwide now.
They fill the cards monthly, the miscreants selling benefits report the card lost and get a new one the next month.

But the LYING!:eek: I didn't think the noble poor we're capable of that.
XNN

[69360]

But the LYING!:eek: I didn't think the noble poor we're capable of that.
XNN


Some are, probably 99% are not doing this. Just like any other socioeconomic group.

[oyarde]

There is a pretty good reason that food , housing and surgeries are not in Article One , Section Eight....... and as Philhelm said , for the half of the country too retarded to get that , fuck 'em. I have no use for them , sub human, lol