Guy shoots child molester suspect/murder charge

[tod evans]

Man Arrested for Killing Fleeing Rapist

http://eaglerising.com/2351/man-arrested-killing-fleeing-rapist/

Norris Acosta-Sanchez was a fugitive from justice on the run because he was facing multiple charges of rape. He’d been on the run since earlier this summer because he’d been fleeing active arrest warrants for rape of underage victim(s). A manhunt began for him late last week, after a local man reported to police that he was living in the area. The same local man is now under arrest for killing Acosta-Sanchez after the fugitive showed up on his property, earlier this week.
According to a local news affiliate, Acosta-Sanchez had moved into the area in recent months after fleeing the rape investigation in Rockland County, New York. Acosta-Sanchez was living in the area near David Carlson’s home, doing odd jobs to make money. At some point, Carlson became suspicious of the man and confronted him about what he was doing in the area. Apparently, Acosta-Sanchez admitted to Carlson that he was a fugitive on the run from law enforcement. Sources say that Carlson then took this information to the authorities and tipped them off about where Acosta-Sanchez was hiding out.

At that point, local authorities launched a manhunt for Acosta-Sanchez, but he was somehow able to evade authorities and avoid capture. The neighborhood was on edge as this child rapist, who had been hiding in the woods surrounding their homes, was still on the loose. After a few days, Acosta-Sanchez reappeared in the area, having circled back to the place he had been staying.

It was after all this Carlson found Acosta-Sanchez on his property.

DavidCarlsonCarlson, armed with a 12 gauge shotgun, told Acosta-Sanchez that they would be going over to a neighbor’s house to call the police. According to police, something happened over the next few moments as they began moving towards the neighbor’s house and Carlson shot four times, killing the suspected rapist.

Carlson is now being charged with second-degree murder.

Some of his neighbors are not at all happy with Carlson’s arrest.

One witness saw the shooting but was tight lipped because he will testify before a grand jury. “I didn’t see a murder happen. That’s as far as I’m going to go,” he said. “I can tell you the community was in fear. I can tell you Dave wasn’t the only one who armed himself.”

[mrsat_98]

Wow, last shot in the face the state has a hard row to hoe on this one.

[ghengis86]

Wow, last shot in the face the state has a hard row to hoe on this one.

Yes, I'd have to agree though there are circumstances where multiple shots were needed. (Was there 4 shots and 4 hits or 4 shots fired and <4 hits to the suspect? Article isn't clear). We'll have to get more details. There's a big difference between self defense and murder, regardless if the one being killed is a suspected rapist or not

[ghengis86]

Lol. You edited your post while I was typing.

Where did you find the face shot info?

[Kilrain]

As usual, I would assume that the information available is far from the whole picture. But with that said, I fail to see the problem with arresting and charging the shooter. He killed someone, and it is now up to him to prove that it was justifiable. Unless you have a clear-cut case of self-defense, and the little information we have does not meet the standard for that, the shooter should be arrested, charged and tried.

[pcosmar]

As usual, I would assume that the information available is far from the whole picture. But with that said, I fail to see the problem with arresting and charging the shooter. He killed someone, and it is now up to him to prove that it was justifiable. Unless you have a clear-cut case of self-defense, and the little information we have does not meet the standard for that, the shooter should be arrested, charged and tried.

It does not necessarily have to be self defense to be justifiable homicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide


The concept of justifiable homicide in criminal law stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation. It differs from other forms of homicide in that, due to certain circumstances, the homicide is justified as preventing greater harm to innocents. A homicide can only be justified if there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it was reasonable to believe that the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or wellbeing of another.

[Kilrain]

It does not necessarily have to be self defense to be justifiable homicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

True, but the matter should still most likely be handled by putting the shooter on trial. You don't just get to kill someone, say "he was a bad man" and avoid having your actions reviewed through a legal process.

At least that's my opinion, presidents and their merry gang of drone operators probably disagree with me.

[pcosmar]

True, but the matter should still most likely be handled by putting the shooter on trial. You don't just get to kill someone, say "he was a bad man" and avoid having your actions reviewed through a legal process.

At least that's my opinion, presidents and their merry gang of drone operators probably disagree with me.

It depends on many things,,, mostly and importantly,, the local community.
And a Judge with some integrity.

I have seen it happen,,and know that it is possible.

[klamath]

Four shots with a 12 gauge does bring out a lot of questions. Were the first three warning shots and the guy kept coming or was it an execution?

[pcosmar]

Four shots with a 12 gauge does bring out a lot of questions. Were the first three warning shots and the guy kept coming or was it an execution?

4 shots with a 12ga can happen very quickly..

and I have no idea what transpired exactly.. but perhaps it was to insure that the bastard would never rape again.

[pcosmar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW73kDASRhc

[Kilrain]

It depends on many things,,, mostly and importantly,, the local community.
And a Judge with some integrity.

I have seen it happen,,and know that it is possible.

Yup, which is why choosing your place of residence carefully is very important. I prefer to live in a place that is culturally homogeneous, where other people share most of my basic understanding of how people are supposed to interact. I wouldn't want to live in a place where people shoot each other and get off without having their actions reviewed by law - very, very closely.

[klamath]

4 shots with a 12ga can happen very quickly..

and I have no idea what transpired exactly.. but perhaps it was to insure that the bastard would never rape again.
I am glad you have now graduated to judge and jury.......:rolleyes:

[pcosmar]

I wouldn't want to live in a place where people shoot each other and get off without having their actions reviewed by law - very, very closely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy


The next day, McElroy was shot to death in broad daylight as he sat with his wife Trena in his pickup truck on Skidmore's main street.[2] He was struck by bullets from at least two different firearms, in front of a crowd of people estimated as between 30 and 46. To date, no one has been charged in connection with McElroy's death

Justifiable Homicide..
Nobody saw nothin'

(do a search on Ken Rex McElroy,,there is an interesting story)

[pcosmar]

I am glad you have now graduated to judge and jury.......:rolleyes:

Nope,, just my opinion..

I would hope that either Judge or Jury shares it.

[Kilrain]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_McElroy


Justifiable Homicide..
Nobody saw nothin'

Yeah, we don't have that here. Not people who terrorize the community, and not people who shoot (the nonexistent) bullies. Which is why I choose to live where I live, where you can keep your doors unlocked, ask your neighbors for help when you need it, and go about your life in peace.

Unfortunately, the country I live in (Sweden) is going downhill when it comes to all these things, which is why my wife and I chose to move to our current home (our last place of residence no longer met our standards), but there are still plenty of good places left.

The high taxes here suck, though.

[mad cow]

As usual, I would assume that the information available is far from the whole picture. But with that said, I fail to see the problem with arresting and charging the shooter. He killed someone, and it is now up to him to prove that it was justifiable. Unless you have a clear-cut case of self-defense, and the little information we have does not meet the standard for that, the shooter should be arrested, charged and tried.

We do just the opposite over here,the State has to prove that it wasn't justified.

[pcosmar]

, but there are still plenty of good places left.


I have no locks on my doors and do not own a firearm. (disabled by law)

It is nice when that is possible,, I would still not tolerate a threat..I do not allow coyotes on my land.

[Kilrain]

I have no locks on my doors and do not own a firearm. (disabled by law)

It is nice when that is possible,, I would still not tolerate a threat..I do not allow coyotes on my land.

And I don't want to live with people who think it's okay that they decide for themselves just who or what is a "threat" to them, and act on that determination. I prefer the live and let live approach to life.

[Brian4Liberty]

Well, if the police said that he was a bad guy, the shooting must be justified. :o

There aren't any details on the accusation of "rape of underage victim". Sounds pretty bad.

[pcosmar]

And I don't want to live with people who think it's okay that they decide for themselves just who or what is a "threat" to them, and act on that determination. I prefer the live and let live approach to life.

Who do you think is better to assess threats than the people?

I appreciate predators in nature,, they have their place in the balance. However,,when they become a threat,, they need to be removed..
I decide when they are a threat, and I confront them when they are.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9571088962_fb9d6d7c3d_c.jpg

and I do live and let live,, mostly.

[Kilrain]

Who do you think is better to assess threats than the people?

I appreciate predators in nature,, they have their place in the balance. However,,when they become a threat,, they need to be removed..
I decide when they are a threat, and I confront them when they are.

and I do live and let live,, mostly.

If that's what you want, good for you. Like I've tried to explain, I prefer to live with people who share my basic understanding of how to interact with the world, and where there is a mutual understanding of when and where to use violence. Here, killing ants on your property is by mutual understanding not a problem. Killing people is by mutual understanding a problem. Regardless of how "threatened" an individual feels by ants or people.

[pcosmar]

If that's what you want, good for you. Like I've tried to explain, I prefer to live with people who share my basic understanding of how to interact with the world, and where there is a mutual understanding of when and where to use violence.

As do I.
Rapists are not generally tolerated here.
Fortunately,,most people are well armed and proficient in the use of arms.. There is very little crime.
This is not true in all areas,, and sometime a fool will disregard common sense and decency,, and invite a judgment on himself..

It seems,,from reports of this story, that is what happened..

the only issue is that the Father of children that were threatened did not have a badge.

[Kilrain]

As do I.
Rapists are not generally tolerated here.
Fortunately,,most people are well armed and proficient in the use of arms.. There is very little crime.
This is not true in all areas,, and sometime a fool will disregard common sense and decency,, and invite a judgment on himself..

It seems,,from reports of this story, that is what happened..

the only issue is that the Father of children that were threatened did not have a badge.

Here, most people are not well armed and proficient in the use of arms. There is very little crime. Someone broke into the local gas station and stole smokes about a year ago. Apart from that, I do not know of a single crime committed here since we moved here in 2009. Of course, there have been other crimes committed, just none other that I've heard of. There are around 1000 people living in this community.

As for "rapists are not generally tolerated here", it would take more than the government calling someone a witch for me to arm myself and burn the person at the stake.

Edit: And oh, since moving here, I have never once seen a single police officer here. I've seen a few cop cars on the road to the nearest city, and in said city, but never any police actually in or around the place where we live.

[Pericles]

Here is the issue I have with the situation: An arrest for murder stays with you forever. The case should be referred to a Grand Jury to determine if charges are warranted, and if so, what those charges should be. The power of prosecutors is almost unchecked, and I'd rather a Grand Jury be the decision maker on charges.

[pcosmar]

As for "rapists are not generally tolerated here", it would take more than the government calling someone a witch for me to arm myself and burn the person at the stake.
Good point.. Though the guy allegedly confessed,, and it seems police had bungled more than once.

I hope that a Judge and Jury will sort it out.. but it seems justifiable to me. (Based on the story I am hearing)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20131018/NEWS03/310180041/Man-who-shot-Rockland-rape-suspect-left-lurch-by-cops-lawyer-says-video-?nclick_check=1


The lawyer for a Sparrowbush, Orange County, man charged with murder in the death of a fugitive Rockland rape suspect said his client tried twice to help local police capture the suspect, but that cops bungled both attempts.

[Kilrain]

Good point.. Though the guy allegedly confessed,, and it seems police had bungled more than once.

I hope that a Judge and Jury will sort it out.. but it seems justifiable to me. (Based on the story I am hearing)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20131018/NEWS03/310180041/Man-who-shot-Rockland-rape-suspect-left-lurch-by-cops-lawyer-says-video-?nclick_check=1

I do not have enough information to make any kind of informed call of whether or not it was justified. And neither do you.

However, based on this...


Acosta-Sanchez had been wanted on an arrest warrant since July. Ramapo police said the family of a girl who is not yet 15 reported that he’d had sexual relations with her in late June.

...there is no suggestion of forcible rape. And that leads me to think that the fears were grossly exaggerated. There was no reason for the shooter to think that the deceased would be attacking his children, unless you think it's reasonable to think that anyone who's had sex with a woman is likely to attack women.

[Brian4Liberty]

However, based on this...

...there is no suggestion of forcible rape. And that leads me to think that the fears were grossly exaggerated. There was no reason for the shooter to think that the deceased would be attacking his children, unless you think it's reasonable to think that anyone who's had sex with a woman is likely to attack women.

That figures.

"Lock down the town! Shelter in place!"

[Brian4Liberty]

Hold on... Where's Dannno? Usually he would have some commentary on this subject...

[Antischism]

According to this article (http://www.lohud.com/article/20131018/NEWS03/310180041/Man-who-shot-Rockland-rape-suspect-left-lurch-by-cops-lawyer-says?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7C%7Cp),


Acosta-Sanchez had been wanted on an arrest warrant since July. Ramapo police said the family of a girl who is not yet 15 reported that he’d had sexual relations with her in late June. He was later indicted by a Rockland grand jury on counts of second-degree rape and second-degree criminal sexual act, felonies, and endangering the welfare of a child, a misdemeanor.

Seems to be more detailed.

[pcosmar]

I do not have enough information to make any kind of informed call of whether or not it was justified. And neither do you.

However, based on this...



...there is no suggestion of forcible rape. And that leads me to think that the fears were grossly exaggerated. There was no reason for the shooter to think that the deceased would be attacking his children, unless you think it's reasonable to think that anyone who's had sex with a woman is likely to attack women.

There was enough reason to arrest him.. A Grand Jury had indicted him (for rape of a 14 yr old) and he was a fugitive,, and was on this mans land.

He was apparently shot attempting escape. again.

Read the whole article.

And yes,, every person is responsible for law enforcement.. It is a civic duty,, and a moral responsibility.

[GreedyHenry]

It sounds like he didn't actually rape anyone at all.

[tod evans]

It'd take something I'm not reading for me not to acquit.

Were I on the grand jury with the information I have I'd not vote to indict...

[pcosmar]

It sounds like he didn't actually rape anyone at all.

Perhaps not,, but a Grand Jury indicted him for the rape of a 14yr old.

it would be up to a jury to decide if he was actually guilty..

Would you be comfortable with him squatting in an abandoned cabin near you? And roaming around on your property near your kids?

Would you do something about it?

[satchelmcqueen]

yes it can. i can fire all 5 rounds in mine in around 3 seconds.
4 shots with a 12ga can happen very quickly..

and I have no idea what transpired exactly.. but perhaps it was to insure that the bastard would never rape again.

[AFPVet]

Four shots with a 12 gauge does bring out a lot of questions. Were the first three warning shots and the guy kept coming or was it an execution?

Four close range shotgun blasts would make for a rather gruesome sight.

[Kilrain]

Perhaps not,, but a Grand Jury indicted him for the rape of a 14yr old.

it would be up to a jury to decide if he was actually guilty..

Would you be comfortable with him squatting in an abandoned cabin near you? And roaming around on your property near your kids?

Would you do something about it?

And the same process should be in play here, the shooter's actions should be reviewed, by a grand jury and a trial if the facts warrant it.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here. You don't want the shooter tried, but if a grand jury were to call for an indictment, it would be okay for anyone to kill the shooter if he runs? That would in essence mean that you're okay with the death penalty for something you don't even consider a crime.

If someone sees Julian Assange on the street, is it okay to kill him?

[pcosmar]

I'm not really sure what you're arguing here.

No,, I am simply arguing that his actions seem to be justified,, or justifiable.. and yes,, of course it should be examined.
He was arrested and is out on bail.. it will be examined. As should any shooting..

Oh,,and for those who have not bothered to read,, he shot the man twice,, during a struggle.
He fired 4 rounds total,, the first one into the ground to alert neighbors.. he was taking the man to police when he resisted.

And this after the dead suspect was found trespassing on his property.

[pcosmar]

Four close range shotgun blasts would make for a rather gruesome sight.

Only 2.
One round was fired into the ground to alert neighbors. One apparently missed.
The last two were hits,, according to reports.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

At some point, Carlson became suspicious of the man and confronted him about what he was doing in the area.

"None of your damn business."

[pcosmar]

"None of your damn business."

He was on Carlson's property.
It was his business.

[tod evans]

"None of your damn business."

If you're on my land or even my neighbors land it is my business.

[dannno]

This child raping / molesting that happened back in New York didn't happen to be consensual sex with a 17 year old, did it?

[pcosmar]

This child raping / molesting that happened back in New York didn't happen to be consensual sex with a 17 year old, did it?

No,, a 14yr old girl. and this was all in New York,, just different counties.

edit. next county over,, from the maps.

[Ender]

There was enough reason to arrest him.. A Grand Jury had indicted him (for rape of a 14 yr old) and he was a fugitive,, and was on this mans land.

He was apparently shot attempting escape. again.

Read the whole article.

And yes,, every person is responsible for law enforcement.. It is a civic duty,, and a moral responsibility.

If he was shot "attempting to escape" then the shooting is definitely not justified.

If the sex crime was consensual then the "crime" becomes questionable. Have a 23 year old friend that was chased down by a 14 year old and she practically raped him. He had no idea that she was 14, until after he thwarted her aggressions. Thank God he got away.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

He was on Carlson's property.
It was his business.


If you're on my land or even my neighbors land it is my business.

Sigh. Let's try this one more time:

"At some point, Carlson became suspicious of the man and confronted him about what he was doing in the area."

That does not say: "on his property." It does later in the article when he confronted him with a loaded gun, but not there.


If you're on my land or even my neighbors land it is my business.

Really, you go hassling people on your neighbor's property if you don't know them? Must suck for them when they have friends over.

[tod evans]

Really, you go hassling people on your neighbor's property if you don't know them? Must suck for them when they have friends over.

"Neighbors" out here are more than shouting distance apart and we know each other.

If my neighbor didn't confront a stranger on my property it would be odd.

It's part of being neighborly in the country.

[pcosmar]

"Neighbors" out here are more than shouting distance apart and we know each other.

If my neighbor didn't confront a stranger on my property it would be odd.

It's part of being neighborly in the country.

I have chased a half dozen of my neighbors cows back into his property,, and fixed the fence they got out of. And I have chased my Son n Law's dog through a herd of Cows,, when he wanted to play with them (the cows actually protected him from me).
Neighbor got a good belly laugh out of that.

[phill4paul]

"Neighbors" out here are more than shouting distance apart and we know each other.

If my neighbor didn't confront a stranger on my property it would be odd.

It's part of being neighborly in the country.

Yeppers.

[pcosmar]

Really, you go hassling people on your neighbor's property if you don't know them? Must suck for them when they have friends over.

It is one thing to know your neighbors,, and your neighborhood... And a whole nother to be "in peoples business"

And by the reports,, This guy initially befriended the guy,, and was helping him,, until he confessed that he was a wanted rapist.

Then he called police,, and attempted to aid them in arresting him.. The police fucked up,, repeatedly..

Then the guy showed up again on his land..

There are several local news outlets that have covered this..

http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/news/family-of-david-carlson-tries-to-clear-murder-suspect-s-name-1.6268399

At some point, Carlson gave him food for doing odd jobs on his farm until Acosta-Sanchez told him about his checkered past. It was then that Carlson notified authorities, according to his wife.

The tip sparked a full-fledged manhunt last Thursday but Acosta-Sanchez got away, swimming across the Rio Reservoir into Sullivan County. The next morning, Acosta-Sanchez returned to the area and came into contact with Carlson near his home along Old Plank Road.

Police say Carlson was planning to call for help but ended up fatally shooting Acosta-Sanchez. Carlson says the shooting was in self-defense.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20131016/NEWS/310160332

Neighbors previously have told the Times Herald-Record that Carlson — by all accounts, a kind, decent and generous man — had befriended Acosta-Sanchez, offering him meals and work doing odd jobs on his property. It was only after Acosta-Sanchez confided in Carlson that he was eluding Rockland County police that Carlson's generosity toward him ceased; Carlson notified police on Wednesday of Acosta-Sanchez's whereabouts and alerted neighbors — most of whom have young children — that a suspected rapist was in their midst.

And there is a Facebook support page,
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-David-Carlson/1377006509204917?ref=stream

[bolil]

There was enough reason to arrest him.. A Grand Jury had indicted him (for rape of a 14 yr old) and he was a fugitive,, and was on this mans land.

He was apparently shot attempting escape. again.

Read the whole article.

And yes,, every person is responsible for law enforcement.. It is a civic duty,, and a moral responsibility.

If he was indicted by a grand jury and fled it seems like he made himself an outlaw. That is to say he willingly placed himself outside the "protection" of the law. So he was dealt with in a way outside the law. That being said, there are plenty of sex offenders and convicted child molesters out there who are actually innocent. And the justice system, which is a part of the larger complex, pretends to care about kids? There are literally thousands upon thousands of kids our system has denied the chance to be molested. Maybe post-mortem.

There is an incentive for the police and justus system as a whole to pad stats involving crimes against children. It proffers them an excuse for extended powers "to protect the kids."

I guess I would say: Good riddance, if the man was actually guilty, and fuck it all if he was not.

[pcosmar]

If he was indicted by a grand jury and fled it seems like he made himself an outlaw. That is to say he willingly placed himself outside the "protection" of the law. So he was dealt with in a way outside the law. That being said, there are plenty of sex offenders and convicted child molesters out there who are actually innocent.

All true. I am only reviewing what I am hearing in this particular case.. and that only from what is reported..
I am not a Judge,, nor will I ever be allowed to be on a Jury.

I made no Judgement on the Guilt or innocence of the man shot. He was under indictment for a crime,, and was actively resisting arrest.

According to claims,, The man who shot him originally was helping him until he learned of the crimes.
He was attempting to arrest him,, when the man resisted again.

I do not know the details of that,, other than the words of the Witness to the incident.
And he said what he witnessed was not murder.

The man is claiming self defense.