There is no debt ceiling any more

[devil21]

Whenever the debt ceiling gets raised there's always a future dollar figure (national debt in nominal dollars) to signify when the kicking of the can will need to be revisited again. I have not seen any reports whatsoever of this number from this recent "deal" and I don't think there is one. Seems to me that right now there is no debt ceiling at all. It's gone. The debt clock has basically been shut off for accounting purposes and now there's no published debt ceiling dollar figure, just a future date in Feb 2014 to revisit it. Is the country now officially without any debt spending constraints?

Obama was asked by a reporter, "Won't we have to do this again in a few months?". Obama replied, "NO!" and walked out of the press room to laughter.

We no longer have a debt ceiling nor do we have a reporting mechanism for the national debt. We do not have a budget either. Think about that.

[Acala]

The only ceiling now is the viability of the dollar itself. And when they hit that one, they will not be able to raise it.

[Feeding the Abscess]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=250643878420278&set=a.242302922587707.1073741826.242302052587794&type=1&theater

It's been that way forever.

[devil21]

The only ceiling now is the viability of the dollar itself. And when they hit that one, they will not be able to raise it.

This may be the official start to hyperinflation. Consider that along with the new $100 bill, the stenographer's meltdown on the House floor, EBT cards being shut off then turned on with no limits, Bernanke leaving and being replaced by Yellen, and other recent happenings.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=250643878420278&set=a.242302922587707.1073741826.242302052587794&type=1&theater

It's been that way forever.

I understand the premise and agree, however this is uncharted territory when even the charade of accountability has been removed.

[69360]

There is no debt ceiling until the date just set in Feb.

God help us if Obama starts a war between now and then, he can borrow to infinity.

[Theocrat]

It's more like a "debt elevator," when you think about it.

[torchbearer]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/184490_590446754345520_1002198364_n.jpg

[FindLiberty]

Oh yea, I'd show you this: http://clockinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/IMG_7837-400x391.jpg

[Lucille]

You're right. The temp CR suspended it, and O Duce can spend as much as he wants to between now and Feb. Tens of trillions, if he sees fit.

Good job, Republicans!

http://news.yahoo.com/there-is-no-debt-ceiling-in-place-and-here%E2%80%99s-why-235736781.html


The Washington Post explains that suspending the debt ceiling actually stems from an idea floated by Mitch McConnell back in 2011. Under McConnell’s proposal, the president would have the sole authority to raise the debt ceiling. Congress would then vote to approve or disapprove of the change. If it voted to disapprove, the president could then veto the disapproval. And as with any presidential veto, Congress would then have to pass a two-thirds majority vote to overturn the veto and effectively block raising the debt ceiling.

hxxp://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=225138


... providing a blank check on debt ceiling increases, increasing spending from sequestered levels, and changing from requiring a vote to do so to requiring a 2/3rds majority to block one.

[tsai3904]

First time this happened was back in February when HR 325 was signed into law. It suspended the debt limit from February 4 to May 18. Then on May 19, the debt limit was raised by $305.4 billion (the amount borrowed during that period).

[HOLLYWOOD]

First time this happened was back in February when HR 325 was signed into law. It suspended the debt limit from February 4 to May 18. Then on May 19, the debt limit was raised by $305.4 billion (the amount borrowed during that period).Yep, spineless sneaky snakes slipped a $1/3 of a Trillion here, $1/2 Trillion in there, presto, the government sticks another trillion on the backs of Americans without having to be personally responsible or announced by their complicit Fascist-corporatist media.

Almost as similar an operation as the Simpson-Bowels and the "Gang of Whatever' chambers on capital hill, pedaling off the cuts to automatic sequestration, as oppose to these lying scumbag politicians being on the record of Aye or Nay votes for each and every expenditure debt pile program or accountable for painful cuts. You see how 'Lawyered-Up' Capital Hill/K-street operates today, devising these devilish plans in shifting all the responsibility, focus, and accountability onto any diversionary entity, with the one exception, ensuring not being blamed themselves. all these Charades, Facades, and Kabuki Theater acting, keep their corrupt greedy asses in power/profit, while sticking the ignorant people with all this debt/decline, destroying America's future.


I've posted before... these elitist sociopaths of Washington DC are, as usual, sitting behind those closed doors the past 36 hours cheering and boasting, while toasting with Louis XIII Grande Champagne Cognac or those 30 year old scotches. Ah... a success to a well executed plan of theatrics, while grasping more power, sucking more wealth from America, plus sticking the debt/inflation afterbirth on the middle and poor classes. The next script will be to write how much hidden debt has been added to 'ceiling pile' and find, as usual, someone else to blame, or maybe another false flag event to mask their criminal ways and having complicit media divert to another shiny object for the clueless to focus upon.

PS: 7 of the 10 wealthiest per capita counties in America are within the Washington DC metro area

PPS: Doing all the calculations of what Jacob Lew has book-cooked-up since last Dec. and especially since May 17th 2013, Lew has borrowed and/or stop funding obligations, etc... the total comes to $521 Billion owed.

[jllundqu]

Storm clouds on the horizon are getting darker, friends.

[devil21]

According to Zerohedge here, the debt clock was restarted with a big jump to over $17T. Glad to at least see the clock restarted in some form. Whether one believes the figures now or in the future is another story.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-18/total-us-debt-soars-over-17-trillion

[enhanced_deficit]

There is enhanced debt ceiling in place now.

[devil21]

There is enhanced debt ceiling in place now.

Does that mean an enhanced_deficit too? If so, well played sir.

[Madison320]

First time this happened was back in February when HR 325 was signed into law. It suspended the debt limit from February 4 to May 18. Then on May 19, the debt limit was raised by $305.4 billion (the amount borrowed during that period).

That's right and now it's a trend. It's one more step closer to no debt limit.

[tod evans]

There is no debt ceiling any more

Whew!

Do ya' think they'll be able to spend us out of debt in the next few months?

[Matthew5]

Washington is more brazen in showing its utter lack of accountability. Americans won't care as long as the status quo is maintained.

[Lucille]

I wonder if we'll see the Democrats shut (or threaten to shut) the govt down more often now, since it got them everything they wanted and more.

[Lucille]

And remember, this was Wattle McConnell's idea.

Debt Ceiling Deal: DC Wins, Americans Lose
By Ron Paul
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/ron-paul/capitol-hill-creeps-abolish-the-debt-ceiling/

Congress surrendered more power to the president in this bill. Instead of setting a new debt ceiling, it simply “suspended” the debt ceiling until February. This gives the administration a blank check to run up as much debt as it pleases from now until February 7th. Congress can “disapprove” the debt ceiling suspension, but only if it passes a resolution of disapproval by a two-thirds majority. How long before Congress totally abdicates its constitutional authority over spending by allowing the Treasury permanent and unlimited authority to borrow money without seeking Congressional approval?

[devil21]

And here it comes! Legislation to turn over debt ceiling power to the President alone and ignore debt obligations as long as they are held by any agency or organization loosely related to the federal gov't. HR3293

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr3293/text



Mr. HASTINGS of Florida introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means

A BILL

To reform the public debt limit.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ‘Debt Limit Reform Act’.

SEC. 2. REFORM OF THE PUBLIC DEBT LIMIT.

(a) Authority of President To Increase Public Debt Limit- Section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

‘(d) The dollar amount in effect under subsection (b) shall be increased at such times and in such amounts as the President of the United States, or his designee, may provide.’.

(b) Government-Held Debt Not Taken Into Account for Purposes of the Public Debt Limit- Section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, as amended by subsection (a) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

‘(e) Obligations held by the United States Government (including any obligation which is classified as an intragovernmental holding by the Secretary of the Treasury or which is held by any agency or instrumentality of the United States) shall not be taken into account for purposes of applying the limitation imposed under subsection (b).’.

[69360]

And here it comes! Legislation to turn over debt ceiling power to the President alone. HR3293

Unconstitutional. That power can only be held by congress. This would not survive a scotus challenge. If they really want to do this, they would need an amendment to the constitution.

[devil21]

Unconstitutional. That power can only be held by congress. This would not survive a scotus challenge. If they really want to do this, they would need an amendment to the constitution.

You mean like how SCOTUS struck down Obamacare, the Patriot Act, and gobs of other unconstitutional legislation?

If they want it, they will get it.

[Snew]

It's more like a "debt elevator," when you think about it.

It reminds me of the Great Glass Elevator from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[heavenlyboy34]

Unconstitutional. That power can only be held by congress. This would not survive a scotus challenge. If they really want to do this, they would need an amendment to the constitution.
So? Challenge it all you want. By the time SCOTUS reviews it a lot of damage will probably have been done. WRT amendments-the regime has been doing unconstitutional shenanigans for ~200 years. I don't see it changing things. Color me cynical.

[devil21]

This second part of the bill may be even more important than the first part. It appears to read that certain debt obligations can be "ignored" for purposes of calculating the national debt, as long as they are held by any agency loosely related ("instrumentality") to the US gov't. It probably would include QE related purchases by the Federal Reserve. QE infinity!


(b) Government-Held Debt Not Taken Into Account for Purposes of the Public Debt Limit- Section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, as amended by subsection (a) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

‘(e) Obligations held by the United States Government (including any obligation which is classified as an intragovernmental holding by the Secretary of the Treasury or which is held by any agency or instrumentality of the United States) shall not be taken into account for purposes of applying the limitation imposed under subsection (b).’.

[jclay2]

If they just agree to discount intergovernmental holdings from the limit, that will be an automatic nearv5 trillion increase.

[ronpaulfollower999]

Case in point, HR 3293– the recently introduced Debt Limit Reform Act. Sounds great, right? After all, reforming the debt seems like a terrific idea.

Except that’s not what the bill really does. They’re not reforming anything. HR 3293′s real purpose is to authorize the government to simply stop counting a massive portion of the US national debt.

You see, one of the biggest chunks of the debt is money owed to ‘intragovernmental agencies’.

For example, Medicare and Social Security hold their massive trust funds in US Treasuries. This is the money that’s owed to retirees.

In fact, nearly $5 trillion of the $17 trillion debt (almost 30%) is owed to intragovernmental agencies like Social Security and Medicare.

So now they basically want to stop counting this debt. Poof. Overnight, they’ll make $5 trillion disappear from the debt.

On paper, this looks great. But in reality, they’re setting the stage to default on Social Security beneficiaries without causing a single ripple in the financial system.

More: http://www.sovereignman.com/trends/congress-to-eliminate-the-debt-by-not-counting-it-anymore-12951/

[Bern]

Ceiling? It's more like a retractable roof.

[Zippyjuan]

This second part of the bill may be even more important than the first part. It appears to read that certain debt obligations can be "ignored" for purposes of calculating the national debt, as long as they are held by any agency loosely related ("instrumentality") to the US gov't. It probably would include QE related purchases by the Federal Reserve. QE infinity!

Over 40% of US debt is currently held by government agencies- mostly by Social Security but also big chunks in government employee retirement funds. SInce it is not publically held (the government owing it to themselves basically though backed by taxes) the bill would say that shouldn't count towards the total debt and hence the ceiling.


What is debt held by government accounts? View details


Debt held by government accounts represents balances in the federal government's accounts—primarily trust funds—that accumulate surpluses. Trust fundsFederal budget accounts that are so designated by law. These accounts usually have a designated, or “earmarked,” source of revenue. These revenues are authorized to be spent for the programs and activities supported by the trust funds. Examples are the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. are accounting mechanisms used to link earmarked receipts with the expenditures of those receipts. Trust funds for Social Security, Medicare, Military Retirement and Health Care, and Civil Service Retirement and Disability account for almost all of the total debt held by government accounts.



Debt held by government accounts represents the cumulative surpluses, including interest earnings, of these accounts that have been invested in Treasury securities. The special Treasury securities held in these government accounts represent legal obligations of the Treasury and are guaranteed for principal and interest by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. This debt reflects a burden on taxpayers and the economy in the future.

Whenever a government account needs to spend more than it takes in from the public, the Treasury must provide cash to redeem debt held by the government account. The government must obtain this cash by increasing taxes, cutting spending, borrowing more from the public, retiring less debt (if the budget is in surplus), or some combination thereof.

Debt held by the trust funds, such as Social Security and Medicare, is not equal to the future benefit costs implied by the current design of the programs and, therefore, does not fully capture the government's total future commitment to these programs. For additional information about trust funds, see GAO, Federal Trust and Other Earmarked Funds: Answers to Frequently Asked Questions.


http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/images/total_fed_debt_components2011.gif

http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/debt/debtbasics.html

[GunnyFreedom]

Unconstitutional. That power can only be held by congress. This would not survive a scotus challenge. If they really want to do this, they would need an amendment to the constitution.

Pffft! You think SCOTUS cares about the Constitution? They STARTED this destructo crap in 1803!

[devil21]

bump

[kcchiefs6465]

Pffft! You think SCOTUS cares about the Constitution? They STARTED this destructo crap in 1803!
And Congress did in 1798.

What should be surmised of these facts (understanding, of course, most every president has been no better)?