The fight is over. Obamacare wins! Was it worth it for the Tea Party?

[JCDenton0451]

With GOP approval rating at an all-time low, with Justin Amash facing primary challenge, with ACA still intact, and Obama feeling emboldened...

Was it worth it for the Tea Party?

[matt0611]

Even if the GOP gets crushed in 2014 does it really matter at this point?

This is what the american people want. More debt, more government, more taxes, let them have it.

And lets not kid ourselves Amash would have always faced a primary challenge. That's what happens when you don't play ball with the establishment.

[malkusm]

With enough strawmen to fill a barn and your approval rating among other members at an all-time low, was it worth it for you to start this thread?

[Brett85]

It seems like every single one of your posts is either bashing the tea party or promoting abortion. I have to wonder why you choose to post here, rather than posting at the Daily Kos or Democratic Underground.

[juleswin]

With GOP approval rating at an all-time low, with Justin Amash facing primary challenge, with ACA still intact, and Obama feeling emboldened...

Was it worth it for the Tea Party?

"Was it worth to resist" is what the rapist said to its victim, what the slave master said to its runaway slave etc etc etc. Yes it was worth it and they will do the same thing over and over and again

[matt0611]

I don't consider it hostage taking or blackmail at all. Its completely legal and completely within the rules and purpose of the houses controls on spending.

I would have just went through the debt ceiling myself if I was there. Even if it did cause a default.

Even if it cost my next election. Screw em.

[JCDenton0451]

Even if the GOP gets crushed in 2014 does it really matter at this point?

If the GOP loses the House, the Democrats with pass Amnesty, which will be a game over for small-government principles in America.

Obamacare fight is but a footnote, Amnesty is what you really should be afraid of.

[69360]

It was a stupid idea. I knew it would cause a big hit in approval ratings. But once they did it, why give up at the last minute? They could have won. They had the democrats by the short hairs and there was nothing the dems could do to stop it.

[Brett85]

I would say "yes, it was worth taking a stand," but lets not repeat this again between now and the 2016 elections.

[Root]

"Was it worth to resist" is what the rapist said to its victim, what the slave master said to its runaway slave etc etc etc. Yes it was worth it and they will do the same thing over and over and again
+rep

[jbauer]

You want to know why none of you have heard about a "continuing resolution" before???

Because you only have a continuing resolution when we don't have a damn budget. The house has sent numerous budgets to the senate. The Reid wont let them hit the floor.

Both parties are to blame for this $hit. Boehner for sending all the budgets without obamacare and Reid for not letting it hit the floor and get rejected, eventually ending up in conference committee where the negotiations should have been taking place. The Teaparty got screwed on this. 20 "teapublicans" did not take the country hostage. 20/435 or 4.6% of house republicans are taking the blame for all this. This is nothing different then how Hitler came to power. Rinse and repeat.

[Occam's Banana]

What, no quotes from HuffPo or The Atlantic? I am dissapoint.


With GOP approval rating at an all-time low, with Justin Amash facing primary challenge, with ACA still intact, and Obama feeling emboldened...

Was it worth it for the Tea Party?

Right, 'coz if it weren't for those damn "Tea Party anarchists" (LOL), then GOP approval ratings would have been at all-time highs, Justin Amash would be Speaker of the House, the ACA would have been repealed, and Obama would be hiding in a bunker under the White House like a scared little bitch ...

:rolleyes:

[AuH20]

The Tea Party appears to be the only adult in the room that burst onto the captain's deck and told them to turn the ship around before it's too late. But boobus knows better. Boobus doesn't even know how to count for the most part. Boobus' time is running out in this world because he can only be protected from his ignorance for so long.

[pcosmar]

It was nothing but theatrics. (not a poll option)

[AuH20]

If the GOP loses the House, the Democrats with pass Amnesty, which will be a game over for small-government principles in America.

Obamacare fight is but a footnote, Amnesty is what you really should be afraid of.

It's going to collapse well before the Mexican hordes become a dominant political force. That I can assure you.

[shane77m]

With enough strawmen to fill a barn and your approval rating among other members at an all-time low, was it worth it for you to start this thread?

+rep

[chudrockz]

Was it "worth it" for Ron Paul to represent his constituents in congress for thirty years while being ignored, ridiculed and laughed at for BEING RIGHT?

Damn right it was worth it. I don't know how he managed to do it whilst keeping his sanity, but it surely was worth it.

[Occam's Banana]

Did not vote in poll for four reasons:
1: The first two options are not mutually exclusive.
2: The 3rd option is ignorant (POTUS is not supposed to "fund" or "defund" anything).
3: The 4th option is just asinine drivel ("taking government hostage?", "blackmail?").
4: What pcosmar said:

It was nothing but theatrics. (not a poll option)

[brushfire]

Wait, who won?

So let me ask this, when the next bubble bursts who's fault will it be? The "tea party"?
What drives the need for debt monetization? How will everyone look back on this event at that point?

I dont know anyone who believes government is efficient at anything besides taking people's money. Why would they entrust their lives to the likes of this government? What exactly did all of this political theater demonstrate?

The irony is that this demonstration of silly government theater was over something as serious as personal healthcare/insurance - this inept body of people, we call government, will control 1/6th of the US economy and the well being of millions. This fact is indisputable, regardless of party affiliation. Its like handing a loaded gun to your favorite 2 year old child - nothing good can come of it, no matter which 2 year old you pick. Why trust these bozos in washington with anything? Is it really that difficult to see? I suspect it isnt, and that's why we're growing - we are winning.

We are on the right side of the issues, and despite all the propaganda, game playing, and nearly infinite resources of our opposition, we are still winning. Not to mention, history is also on our side. So who's declaring victory? Go ahead, enjoy and celebrate - today is your day... Tomorrow will be a different story.

http://www.inkart.com/images/Scratchboard_Images/Scratchboard_Tortoise_And_Hare.jpg

[erowe1]

What exactly are the no-vote people saying? That all these congressmen should have voted "yes" on the budget that Obama wanted?

[JCDenton0451]

What exactly are the no-vote people saying? That all these congressmen should have voted "yes" on the budget that Obama wanted?

The question is whether it was worth it for the Tea Party to force a government shutdown in attempt to make Obama defund his healthare law.

[erowe1]

The question is whether it was worth it for the Tea Party to force a government shutdown in attempt to make Obama defund his healthare law.

And a corollary to that question is whether these congressmen should have voted yes for whatever budget Obama wanted. Because all that what you call "forcing a government shutdown" entailed was voting no on Obama's desired budget.

What is your answer to that one?

[AuH20]

The question is whether it was worth it for the Tea Party to force a government shutdown in attempt to make Obama defund his healthare law.

To further separate the wheat from the chaff? Then yes.

[Carlybee]

If the Dems rule the next 2 terms the Tea Party will still get blamed for shutting down government. Republicans are terrible at controlling the narrative and give it up every time. There is a war against the TP from both sides but some factions of the TP come off as zealots which helps feed the narrative.

[JK/SEA]

Obamacare wins?...LOL...the jury is still out on this one.

[Anti Federalist]

Even if the GOP gets crushed in 2014 does it really matter at this point?

This is what the american people want. More debt, more government, more taxes, let them have it.

And lets not kid ourselves Amash would have always faced a primary challenge. That's what happens when you don't play ball with the establishment.

That.

I wish people would stop giving themselves Dutch Rudders on this and realize that the vast majority of their fellow AmeriCunts want slavery, oppression, debt, taxes and a police state.

They want to be abused and bossed around.

They hate freedom, are afraid of freedom and will happily "turn in" anybody who demands it.

We, the small minority that want no part of this descending nightmare have but a few choices:

Fight.

Secede.

Leave.

But to think you'll get anywhere with this mob, through "democracy", is, IMO, utter and complete insanity.

[Cabal]

It was nothing but theatrics. (not a poll option)

Basically this. It was quite painfully obvious that it was all just political theater from the get-go.

On the bright side, I'm sure this has helped some to see the inevitable futility of statist 'solutions' to statist problems. Then again, that may be expecting too much. :rolleyes:

[Keith and stuff]

I say No but I cannot answer your poll because I don't agree with any of the choices that you wrote.

[Brett85]

The question is whether it was worth it for the Tea Party to force a government shutdown in attempt to make Obama defund his healthare law.

Do you realize that you're the only one to choose the idiotic response, "No, taking the government hostage and blackmailing the opposition is unacceptable tactic."

[Keith and stuff]

I say No but I cannot answer your poll because I don't agree with any of the choices that you wrote. Of all of your choices, this is the 1 I disagree with most.

No, taking the government hostage and blackmailing the opposition is unacceptable tactic

It's fun to call someone a terrorist, blackmailer, hostage taker or anarchist when you are 100% clear that the person is not 1 of those things. However, I'm not going to put my name down in something that I think you might have meant to be a partly serious poll(?) and associate it with such a joke. Clearly the Tea Party folks aren't terrorist and clearly they didn't take anything hostage. Seniors were not murdered. Babies were not raped.

[JCDenton0451]

Do you realize that you're the only one to choose the idiotic response, "No, taking the government hostage and blackmailing the opposition is unacceptable tactic."
I take pride in it.:cool:

[erowe1]

Do you realize that you're the only one to choose the idiotic response, "No, taking the government hostage and blackmailing the opposition is unacceptable tactic."

Idiotic is right. It's just funny. This guy is a total mindless puppet regurgitating whatever is on Obama's teleprompter.

[Anti Federalist]

I take pride in it.:cool:

Where does government get the authority to take me hostage every single day?

[BuddyRey]

Darn right it was worth it. The day the liberty movement starts focusing all its effort on doing what's "popular" instead of what's right is the day we'll cease to have a liberty movement at all.

[aGameOfThrones]

"No one wins. One side just loses more slowly." -- Prez

[klamath]

If Obama care is crushing people next fall THAT will be the issue and the voters will look back with favor on those fighting to stop it. If obamacare isn't effecting a lot of people negatively then the TP might lose some seats. On top of that next fall is eons away as far as issues voters will concentrating on. Federal workers getting two weeks of extra paid vacation the previous year won't matter much. Just a month ago the people were 70% against the democrats and Obama trying to start a war in Syria.

[aGameOfThrones]

Where does government get the authority to take me hostage every single day?

From the law, their law, not man's law, but their law.

[klamath]

I say No but I cannot answer your poll because I don't agree with any of the choices that you wrote. Of all of your choices, this is the 1 I disagree with most.


It's fun to call someone a terrorist, blackmailer, hostage taker or anarchist when you are 100% clear that the person is not 1 of those things. However, I'm not going to put my name down in something that I think you might have meant to be a partly serious poll(?) and associate it with such a joke. Clearly the Tea Party folks aren't terrorist and clearly they didn't take anything hostage. Seniors were not murdered. Babies were not raped.
Yeaw, I didn't vote for the very same reasons. His agenda is clear as much as he protests that he is trying to help. His key phrases make it to obvious where his loyalties lay.

[Root]

If the Dems rule the next 2 terms the Tea Party will still get blamed for shutting down government. Republicans are terrible at controlling the narrative and give it up every time. There is a war against the TP from both sides but some factions of the TP come off as zealots which helps feed the narrative.
I agree. As soon as it got out that they were shutting down over Obamacare, the crazy left instantly went into "racist tea party mode". The narrative should have always been about spending control and reducing the debt/deficit.

[JCDenton0451]

I say No but I cannot answer your poll because I don't agree with any of the choices that you wrote. Of all of your choices, this is the 1 I disagree with most.

No, taking the government hostage and blackmailing the opposition is unacceptable tactic

It's fun to call someone a terrorist, blackmailer, hostage taker or anarchist when you are 100% clear that the person is not 1 of those things. However, I'm not going to put my name down in something that I think you might have meant to be a partly serious poll(?) and associate it with such a joke. Clearly the Tea Party folks aren't terrorist and clearly they didn't take anything hostage. Seniors were not murdered. Babies were not raped.

It would be one thing if the GOP shut down the government permanently and without any conditions. I would call it madness. But they said they were willing to open the government immediately if only the president and the Senate agreed to defund ACA. That's blackmail. Blackmail doesn't have to involve "murdered seniors" to qualify as such.

Wikipedia defines blackmail as "an act, often a crime, involving unjustified threats to make a gain or cause loss to another unless a demand is met". The loss comes from the partial cessation of the government functions, which the Democrats (and many Americans) value deeply. The demand is the defunding of Obamacare.

It's easily to blame the media for the GOP's current PR problems, but really you would do better to take a moment to engage in some introspection.

[erowe1]

But they said they were willing to open the government immediately if only the president and the Senate agreed to defund ACA.

The word for that is "negotiation," not "blackmail."

But even then, can you provide the quote where someone said what you're saying they said?

And even then still, if you want to say that one side was threatening to shut down the government, then which side was making that threat? The Republican Congress passed budgets, offering to fund all kinds of things, the Democrat Senate and the President kept rejecting them, one after the other.

Republicans: "Here's some funding for this, this, and this."
Democrats: "No. We won't allow it."
Republicans: "OK. Then, well, here's some funding for this, that, and the other thing."
Democrats: "No. We won't allow that either."
Republicans: "Well, what funding will you allow?"
Democrats: "We have this long list of things that you and we both want to fund, but we won't allow you to fund them unless you also fund Obamacare."

Who's blackmailing whom there?

[AuH20]

I agree. As soon as it got out that they were shutting down over Obamacare, the crazy left instantly went into "racist tea party mode". The narrative should have always been about spending control and reducing the debt/deficit.

I don't think reason matters anymore. It's about who has the bigger microphone combined with the infantile nature of the populace. Granted, we have many freedom loving people in the people in this country but we've been outbred ironically enough by those who we have been subsidizing. Paying for our own demise so to speak.

[brandon]

If there were just a couple more Republican Senators it would have been a good idea. Both houses of congresses united squaring off against the president would have been a winnable fight. As is with just a slight house majority this was never going anywhere.

[silverhandorder]

Republicans and democrats will destroy each other. Country is polarized and broke. This is going to result in fighting and death.

JCdenton is good at poking holes in the narrative that liberty movement can change this avalanche. However he is blind to what I just warned about.

[angelatc]

That.

I wish people would stop giving themselves Dutch Rudders on this and realize that the vast majority of their fellow AmeriCunts want slavery, oppression, debt, taxes and a police state.

They want to be abused and bossed around.

They hate freedom, are afraid of freedom and will happily "turn in" anybody who demands it.

We, the small minority that want no part of this descending nightmare have but a few choices:

Fight.

Secede.

Leave.

But to think you'll get anywhere with this mob, through "democracy", is, IMO, utter and complete insanity.


Actually, I think they want a government that bosses everybody else around.

[klamath]

The word for that is "negotiation," not "blackmail."

But even then, can you provide the quote where someone said what you're saying they said?

Even even then still, if you want to say that one side was threatening to shut down the government, then which side was making that threat? The Republican Congress passed budgets, offering to fund all kinds of things, the Democrat Senate and the President kept rejecting them, one after the other.

Republicans: "Here's some funding for this, this, and this."
Democrats: "No. We won't allow it."
Republicans: "OK. Then, well, here's some funding for this, that, and the other thing."
Democrats: "No. We won't allow that either."
Republicans: "Well, what funding will you allow?"
Democrats: "We have this long list of things that you and we both want to fund, but we won't allow you to fund them unless you also fund Obamacare."

Who's blackmailing whom there?The word negotiation does not exist in the democratic playbook so how would he know.

[Todd]

lol at 4th option. The idea that the government is being "held hostage" is amusing......(Said the real hostages)

[Cleaner44]

If the GOP loses the House, the Democrats with pass Amnesty, which will be a game over for small-government principles in America.

Obamacare fight is but a footnote, Amnesty is what you really should be afraid of.

Why would you care if it is ever game over for small-government principles in America? If anyone stands up for small-government principles in America you seem to hold the position that it is foolish. If any Republicans stand up for small-government principles regarding amnesty, aren't you going to just put up more threads citing MSM articles that declare such efforts as misguided?

[seapilot]

It seems like every single one of your posts is either bashing the tea party or promoting abortion. I have to wonder why you choose to post here, rather than posting at the Daily Kos or Democratic Underground.



They can get away with it because the majority on this forum believe in freedom of opinion even if it is from devout socialists. If a person tries to post anything promoting liberty or freedom on socialist worship sites they would be banned in a heartbeat. They are the ones to subvert the system to gain power and control over others. The biggest lie is communists or national socialists care about the little guy or the people. The truth is they want utter total control over everything and everybody.

[AlexAmore]

I doubt the Tea Party is gonna take much of a hit in the long run (1-2 years).

1. Just like Obama's dozens of lies and scandals, people will put this in the back of their mind.

2. Obamacare is gonna totally suck, it's just that nobody is signing up to it...if they even can. Many people are assuming they'll get a decent deal, but they won't and they will be pissed.

[Brett85]

They can get away with it because the majority on this forum believe in freedom of opinion even if it is from devout socialists.

Yeah, that's true. I'm not calling for banning him, but I'm just wondering why he chooses to post comments here.

[Bryan]

Over? Who said anything about it being over?

A battle was lost but it was no surprise.

[Bryan]

BTW, op was banned for hate speech in another thread, not related to here.

[kcchiefs6465]

Normally I would ask why so and so was banned but for this particular poster, I'd have to just say "Good riddance."

Never have I seen an European so infatuated with Jews, Hispanics and American policy.

[CaseyJones]

he was in russia actually

[Brett85]

I still don't think I really agree with banning him. I called him out for seeming to basically be a liberal, or an Obama supporter, but I generally don't like censorship unless someone just constantly engages in personal attacks against others.

[angelatc]

he was in russia actually

Probably a proxy. Which means he will be back.

[kcchiefs6465]

he was in russia actually
Haha, I was close.

He'd spell things as Europeans do. "Realise" or this or that. Not a very talented troll.

[Keith and stuff]

It would be one thing if the GOP shut down the government permanently and without any conditions. I would call it madness. But they said they were willing to open the government immediately if only the president and the Senate agreed to defund ACA.

I'm not really sure what you are saying because the GOP does not equal the Tea Party.

But you said GOP above so I'll go with that. The GOP tried to negotiate several times. They offered a variety of different positions. Sure, they did try at 1 point to defund ObamaCare or as you call it, the Unaffordable Care Act. However, when they realized that wasn't going to happen, they quickly moved up.

Negotiations are normal during the budgeting process. The Democrats are just as guilty at not negotiating as the GOP.

[Keith and stuff]

he was in russia actually

Thanks for giving of the specific European county he was located in. That's pretty good service by a mod. +Rep.

[CaseyJones]

Thanks for giving of the specific European county he was located in. That's pretty good service by a mod. +Rep.

russia is an asian country

[erowe1]

russia is an asian country

Not really. The great majority of the population of Russia is in the European part of it.

ETA: Actually I shouldn't say that. I don't really know. But Moscow and St. Petersburg are way bigger than any cities East of the Ural mountains.

ETA again: Here. Yeah, 77% of Russia's population is in Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Russia

[PaulConventionWV]

he was in russia actually

Part of Russia is in Europe, actually.

[PaulConventionWV]

This Obamacare thing is really starting to make me wonder about the future of the economy. I don't think I can take another hit to my income. How can anyone else? I am a very frugal person and I still don't see how living on what's left is even going to be practical after Obamacare. How does anyone plan to live with this?

I, for one, will resist until the end. If I could find a way to not pay the penalty without being labeled a "tax cheat", I would, but now I might have no other option than to not pay a portion of my taxes, the portion Obamacare is responsible for. It's just too much. I won't pay.

[belian78]

This Obamacare thing is really starting to make me wonder about the future of the economy. I don't think I can take another hit to my income. How can anyone else? I am a very frugal person and I still don't see how living on what's left is even going to be practical after Obamacare. How does anyone plan to live with this?

I, for one, will resist until the end. If I could find a way to not pay the penalty without being labeled a "tax cheat", I would, but now I might have no other option than to not pay a portion of my taxes, the portion Obamacare is responsible for. It's just too much. I won't pay.
My family has been focused on finding more ways to accrue currency, and spending every extra cent converting it into tangible goods. This past year we've taught ourselves how to start and maintain a garden, make our own bread/clothes/moonshine, we started a home based business which now keeps us pretty darn busy on top of working, and we've also reworked all our monthly obligations so that we pay as little as possible. There's a ton more that we can and need to do, but ultimately that's all we can do, just use the time given to us to prepare ourselves for the inevitable.

[jbauer]

The question is whether it was worth it for the Tea Party to force a government shutdown in attempt to make Obama defund his healthare law.

See that's where you're wrong the tea party didn't force this. There isn't enough of them to force anything. This whole thing has been about shifting the blame from the Dems and the bulk to the Repbs to the tea party because the tea party is the only show in town that wants to stop the madness that the power brokers need to survive.

[AuH20]

My family has been focused on finding more ways to accrue currency, and spending every extra cent converting it into tangible goods. This past year we've taught ourselves how to start and maintain a garden, make our own bread/clothes/moonshine, we started a home based business which now keeps us pretty darn busy on top of working, and we've also reworked all our monthly obligations so that we pay as little as possible. There's a ton more that we can and need to do, but ultimately that's all we can do, just use the time given to us to prepare ourselves for the inevitable.

Good for the body and the mind. The way humans were meant to live.

[Carlybee]

More like a game of chicken than theatrics methinks

[Keith and stuff]

Part of Russia is in Europe, actually.
Yup. The part with over 3/4s of the population, all of the power, the elites and most of the things that people think of as Russian. But there is also Siberia and some land & islands that Russia/China/Japan have disputed over for decades.

[Keith and stuff]

I'm not sad over the ban. I would like more posters here, though. The more posters the better ;)

https://lh3.ggpht.com/-DLNCKc3Mfkg/TXZ1_is533I/AAAAAAAACHw/b24mThSmXzE/s400/ban-hammer-featured1.jpg

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/troll-2.jpg

[Carlybee]

Banned for disagreeing whose fault it is?

[Carson]

Perhaps this has played out exactly like both parties planned.

What if it backfires in their faces when we can't keep up with their fake money presses?



Was Gov't shutdown planned and orchestrated months ago in advance?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430506-Was-Gov-t-shutdown-planned-and-orchestrated-months-ago-in-advance

Is it possible that their social engineering has left the public in the mood we are in by accident?

[Lucille]

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2013/10/remember-this-in-2014-and-2016.html


It did accomplish one very important thing: it forced the bi-factional ruling party to reveal itself in public.

[angelatc]

Banned for disagreeing whose fault it is?

I believe he was banned for repeatedly calling us all a bunch of racists.

If being disagreeable was a problem for Bryan, lots of us would be gone.

[angelatc]

See that's where you're wrong the tea party didn't force this. There isn't enough of them to force anything. This whole thing has been about shifting the blame from the Dems and the bulk to the Repbs to the tea party because the tea party is the only show in town that wants to stop the madness that the power brokers need to survive.

Really, there are only a handful of liberty Republicans in the HoR. Maybe we didn't get anything out of this, but I am at least going to celebrate that they were able to find enough fiscal conservatives willing to band together with them and to make Boehner cross that line he did not want to cross.

Pelosi would have never crossed that line, and you would have never seen the Dems trashing each other either.

[bunklocoempire]

BTW, op was banned for hate speech in another thread, not related to here.

Yes, hate speech -not to be confused with ass speech.

[gwax23]

BTW, op was banned for hate speech in another thread, not related to here.

This made my day.