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View Full Version : Is The GOP of 2013 BETTER Than The GOP of 2008?




trey4sports
10-16-2013, 10:29 PM
How do you think this GOP stacks up to the GOP of 5 years ago when Ron Paul first ran?

ThePenguinLibertarian
10-16-2013, 10:37 PM
Well, they managed to cut 3% of spending. Tea Party is okay, might be a good hope. Short Answer: Yes. Long Answer: No, it hasn't been for the last 80 years. Bring back the Republican Party of Taft and Goldwater.

RonPaulFanInGA
10-16-2013, 10:38 PM
The GOP of 2008 made McCain its presidential nominee, so the answer has to be yes. You can't go any lower than that.

RPfan1992
10-16-2013, 10:44 PM
Slightly better i guess. They might be workable but the establishment needs to be kicked out first.

ObiRandKenobi
10-16-2013, 11:09 PM
ron paul would do better now. he should run again.

fr33
10-16-2013, 11:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GTLM89pN0A

phill4paul
10-16-2013, 11:21 PM
Same as it ever was ///

NorthCarolinaLiberty
10-16-2013, 11:26 PM
Nope. Worse. Government just keeps getting bigger. More laws. More code. More everything. Other big party--no different.

RonPaulFanInGA
10-16-2013, 11:31 PM
Nope. Worse. Government just keeps getting bigger. More laws. More code. More everything. Other big party--no different.

But, but, "libertarian beliefs are on the rise!" says the media.

And yet somehow, the federal government just keeps growing and growing and growing. It's a behemoth now compared to only twenty years ago, much less what it was during the Founders' time.

I don't think we'll ever see it shrink even a little tiny bit in any of our lifetimes.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
10-16-2013, 11:39 PM
I don't think we'll ever see it shrink even a little tiny bit in any of our lifetimes.

If only I could be the guy in that Castaway movie. I'd never leave.

dillo
10-17-2013, 12:14 AM
Well, they managed to cut 3% of spending. Tea Party is okay, might be a good hope. Short Answer: Yes. Long Answer: No, it hasn't been for the last 80 years. Bring back the Republican Party of Taft and Goldwater.

or Taft and Buffet

phill4paul
10-17-2013, 12:39 AM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6403122688/h906693AB/

BuddyRey
10-17-2013, 12:49 AM
There's still a lot of work to be done, but in general I'd say that the GOP of today is far, FAR better than the GOP of 2008. Anyone who doubts this need only compare the crowd reactions to Ron Paul in '08 vs. '12. First time around, the whole room was against him (especially during the infamous Giuliani exchange), but four years later, he had a South Carolina crowd erupting in cheers when he called for the legalization of drugs.

We have absolutely made progress, albeit slowly.

enoch150
10-17-2013, 12:53 AM
There's no question it's better now than in 2008. Obviously they're still far from perfect. The question is, how will they behave when there is a Republican President? That's when we find out if these improvements are real or temporary.

phill4paul
10-17-2013, 01:13 AM
Proud to be and Re-pub-licaaaan! God Bless the USA!

Mani
10-17-2013, 01:33 AM
Better is a difficult word.


There is more POLICE state, there is more GOVT, there is more DEBT.


But the republican leadership isn't a bunch of SMUG Arrogant chicken hawk blood thirsty war mongering bastards as before....At least not in such a blatant public fashion.


Huckabee wouldn't be able to stand in front of a crowd when asked about if we should stay in a Iraq, and say stupid shit like, "HONOR!" "We should stay in Iraq for Honor!" and get roaring standing ovations like he did in 2008, and have RP get BOOO'ed for saying we should go home.

Really Huck? Honor? We should continue to let American Soldiers get blown to bits, lose limbs, come back and blow their heads off, murder innocent people in collateral damage, and spend a few billion a month on a useless war.....For Honor?? That shit won't fly so easy in 2013, not sure how the fuck it was working in 2008.

Maybe there's plenty of chicken hawks still in the audience, but they would not be booing so much. There's a number of conservative general folk saying, "We can't be the policeman of the world!"

You have RP phrases all over the place, People saying, "We need to stop borrowing from the chinese to pay for this!", "WE need to shut down foreign aide to EVERYONE!" "We need to STOP PRINTING MONEY!!"


NO one said ANY of these things prior to 2008. Now, it's common talking points by Conservatives....So I'd say we are FURTHER along because ideas HAVE SPREAD, and HAVE taken HOLD.


The Republicans have chinks in their armour now. They were so confident and cocky and annoying back then, they are now lost and confused and libertarian statements are seaping in and they can't brush it off as KOOKY, crazy stuff. Guys like McCain look like fucking Morons now, their previous leaders look stupid.

Their is a changing of the guard, or at least an OPPORTUNITY for change. 2008, the fuckers wouldn't bunch. If you didn't follow the party line, you were a piece of shit that needed to be ostracized, in 2013, they can't do that, because they themselves don't even know what is the party line anymore, because the 2008 party line was a complete FAIL.

We do have some of our voices in the GOP in 2013, they may be a minority but there are a few there. And there are more that are changing their TUNE to piggyback the message to hopefully get popularity.

So in terms of spreading messages, and ideas, and some infiltration of people, and shaking up the establishment. We are better off in 2013. But it's still a long way to go. I see more opportunity now, more openness, rather than a brick wall I felt in 2008.

But unfortunately as a country, it seems we went DOWNHILL faster while our ideas and messages are still being planted and roots still developing.

Bastiat's The Law
10-17-2013, 02:34 AM
I remember Huckabee pulling that stay in Iraq for honor crap. Same with the Rudy moment and the crowd eating it up. Those people were from a different planet. I'd love to see what tune they're singing these days.

Rudeman
10-17-2013, 04:38 AM
There are certainly positive signs. There are a handful of decent to good Senators and a growing amount in the House.

BUT

The Tea Party/Liberty movement needs to come out strong in 2014 if there is going to be any hope in turning the tide of out of control government. The establishment, media, Dems etc. are going to go after any TP/Liberty candidates hard this upcoming election (they've already started the attack during the shutdown) and if they can survive or even flourish then it will only further embolden members already in office.

ThePenguinLibertarian
10-17-2013, 10:35 PM
or Taft and Buffet
Honestly, if i had a time machine I'd travel back to 1941, fight in WW2 (Participate with the Marines in Tarawa, Saipan and GuadalCanal), come back pissed and with PTSD. Enroll in college, then off to medical school, then eventually become a department head in (add prestigious medical school.) Then i will debate president Kennedy on Medicare, and smash his pretty face with the FACTS. I would also encourage Robert Taft to win the election and appoint Buffet running or eisenhower. Then, we wouldn't have the socialistic crap we have today

Cleaner44
10-17-2013, 11:27 PM
Yes the GOP is better. It no longer is dominated by the likes of Giuliani, McCain and Graham. Now Rand, Amash and Massie hold office and even Cruz with his flaws is still better than the typical Republican. The libertarian influence can't be denied and in fact it is being blamed for things like the government shutdown.

eduardo89
10-17-2013, 11:32 PM
I remember Huckabee pulling that stay in Iraq for honor crap. Same with the Rudy moment and the crowd eating it up. Those people were from a different planet. I'd love to see what tune they're singing these days.

I can't wait for Peter King to say crap like that in the 2016 debates.

CaptLouAlbano
10-18-2013, 04:39 AM
The House vote the other night shows how the GOP has changed. Only 78 Republicans voted with the leadership. Now, I am sure that some of those that voted "nay" on the bill only did so for political cover, but I don't care the reason why someone votes as long as they vote the way I want them to. Roll the calendar back to 2008 and I think that 78-127 number would have been reversed. The leadership, in the House at least, is very weak. This shows that the guys that have gone to the House since '08 are not afraid to buck the establishment - this is a good thing and a step in the right direction.

CaptLouAlbano
10-18-2013, 04:39 AM
I can't wait for Peter King to say crap like that in the 2016 debates.

I doubt King will make it past Ames.

Working Poor
10-18-2013, 04:40 AM
The GOP of 2008 made McCain its presidential nominee, so the answer has to be yes. You can't go any lower than that.

How much higher is Romney than McCain? I say about the thickness of a grain of sand with a better hair do.

AlexAmore
10-18-2013, 05:05 AM
The House vote the other night shows how the GOP has changed. Only 78 Republicans voted with the leadership. Now, I am sure that some of those that voted "nay" on the bill only did so for political cover, but I don't care the reason why someone votes as long as they vote the way I want them to. Roll the calendar back to 2008 and I think that 78-127 number would have been reversed. The leadership, in the House at least, is very weak. This shows that the guys that have gone to the House since '08 are not afraid to buck the establishment - this is a good thing and a step in the right direction.

You hit the nail on the head. For so many to buck the leadership while getting blasted in the media soooo hard just goes to show how far we've come. And yes, some did it for political cover but that's a GREAT sign for things to come because they see their constituents back home are coming our way and are a powerful force.

tod evans
10-18-2013, 05:17 AM
It's one head of the two headed monster.

Who cares if this head grew a mustache?

CaptLouAlbano
10-18-2013, 05:24 AM
It's one head of the two headed monster.

Who cares if this head grew a mustache?

Because there are 435 Congressman & 50 Senators that enact policy that has an effect on our lives, income, cost of living, taxes, etc. We will never have an an-cap utopia (at least in any of our lifetimes), the likelihood of a third party emerging to national prominence is slim to none; therefore it is important that political activists work within the existing system to change it as best as we can.

Bastiat's The Law
10-18-2013, 05:31 AM
There are certainly positive signs. There are a handful of decent to good Senators and a growing amount in the House.

BUT

The Tea Party/Liberty movement needs to come out strong in 2014 if there is going to be any hope in turning the tide of out of control government. The establishment, media, Dems etc. are going to go after any TP/Liberty candidates hard this upcoming election (they've already started the attack during the shutdown) and if they can survive or even flourish then it will only further embolden members already in office.

This is a vitally accurate and urgent comment. The tea party, conservatives, and libertarians all need to work together under the umbrella of the Liberty Movement if we're to have any hope of turning this around.

Bastiat's The Law
10-18-2013, 05:36 AM
I can't wait for Peter King to say crap like that in the 2016 debates.

At least now people like Peter King are seen as clinically insane for the most part. I mean outside of the Washington beltway anyway. The media loves to prop him up though.

Bastiat's The Law
10-18-2013, 05:38 AM
The House vote the other night shows how the GOP has changed. Only 78 Republicans voted with the leadership. Now, I am sure that some of those that voted "nay" on the bill only did so for political cover, but I don't care the reason why someone votes as long as they vote the way I want them to. Roll the calendar back to 2008 and I think that 78-127 number would have been reversed. The leadership, in the House at least, is very weak. This shows that the guys that have gone to the House since '08 are not afraid to buck the establishment - this is a good thing and a step in the right direction.
We could make another huge step in 2014 if we get some of our liberty candidates elected to Congress.

WM_in_MO
10-18-2013, 05:39 AM
Is this a trick question?

tod evans
10-18-2013, 05:39 AM
Because there are 435 Congressman & 50 Senators that enact policy that has an effect on our lives, income, cost of living, taxes, etc. We will never have an an-cap utopia (at least in any of our lifetimes), the likelihood of a third party emerging to national prominence is slim to none; therefore it is important that political activists work within the existing system to change it as best as we can.

I think you're giving the "existing system" too much credit.

It's eating itself from within, and without some drastic changes the rest of the world is going to kick it/us to the curb.

I'm not looking for any kind of "utopia", that's a fools dream, I am however trying to look at the government we have now in a realistic light. Wars and unbacked spending don't paint "them" in a good light.

69360
10-18-2013, 05:44 AM
Slightly better. They still do stupid things like take all the negatives from the shutdown, then give in and get nothing in return.

CaptLouAlbano
10-18-2013, 05:44 AM
I think you're giving the "existing system" too much credit.

It's eating itself from within, and without some drastic changes the rest of the world is going to kick it/us to the curb.

I'm not looking for any kind of "utopia", that's a fools dream, I am however trying to look at the government we have now in a realistic light. Wars and unbacked spending don't paint "them" in a good light.

But things will not change overnight, progress needs to be made. And this thread illustrates the progress that has been made. There are a lot of better folks in elected office today than there were 4 years ago. And come 2014 we need to keep the ones we have an add to the fold. We do it again in 2016, 2018, 2020 and we keep doing it until we have a large enough majority that we can begin rolling back the federal leviathan.

tod evans
10-18-2013, 06:16 AM
But things will not change overnight, progress needs to be made. And this thread illustrates the progress that has been made. There are a lot of better folks in elected office today than there were 4 years ago. And come 2014 we need to keep the ones we have an add to the fold. We do it again in 2016, 2018, 2020 and we keep doing it until we have a large enough majority that we can begin rolling back the federal leviathan.

I don't see elected folks as a net gain or loss, it's the entrenched government employees that are dragging the country down.

Heads of departments, appointed judges, comptrollers.....Folks of this ilk have far more effect on day to day life and foreign policy than those who are elected.

Politicians are afraid to even address the influence these people have, let alone threaten to take it away, to a man they pander to those who are entrenched, it's political suicide not to.

So long as we content ourselves with electing a new face to guide and shape the same leviathan it will remain unchanged, debt is the tell-tale sign to me. One head argues to spend on this, the other on that...............But spending continues.

CaptLouAlbano
10-18-2013, 06:50 AM
I don't see elected folks as a net gain or loss, it's the entrenched government employees that are dragging the country down.

Heads of departments, appointed judges, comptrollers.....Folks of this ilk have far more effect on day to day life and foreign policy than those who are elected.

Politicians are afraid to even address the influence these people have, let alone threaten to take it away, to a man they pander to those who are entrenched, it's political suicide not to.

So long as we content ourselves with electing a new face to guide and shape the same leviathan it will remain unchanged, debt is the tell-tale sign to me. One head argues to spend on this, the other on that...............But spending continues.

Agreed, but are there more or less people in the House that support balancing the budget today as opposed to 2008? Before we can reduce spending to the levels folks like you and I would like, we first have to balance - from there we can start to reduce. You basically had a sizable portion of the GOP House Caucus voting against a debt limit increase. That's not bad. It's not where we want to be, but we are in much better shape than 2008.,

tod evans
10-18-2013, 06:57 AM
Agreed, but are there more or less people in the House that support balancing the budget today as opposed to 2008? Before we can reduce spending to the levels folks like you and I would like, we first have to balance - from there we can start to reduce. You basically had a sizable portion of the GOP House Caucus voting against a debt limit increase. That's not bad. It's not where we want to be, but we are in much better shape than 2008.,

The spending continues unabated in spite of a few squawks...

I don't see these "elected officials" as being representative of the people.........Unless government is the people now.

speciallyblend
10-18-2013, 07:25 AM
i think this sums up the gop nicely. the shit still stinks just covered a lil with some liberty pourri. The gop shit stinks so bad not sure liberty pourri can help it, might be best to flush forever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLnhuzh9uY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKLnhuzh9uY WE NEED SOME GOP POURRI or just flush it forever.

Brett85
10-18-2013, 07:28 AM
Far from perfect, but much better than during the Bush years.

tod evans
10-18-2013, 07:30 AM
Far from perfect, but much better than during the Bush years.

"It's not so bad now they're using some lube"....:rolleyes:

Valli6
10-18-2013, 07:30 AM
Slightly better. There's been a shake-up within the party even if it hasn't born much fruit yet. In 2008, more were content to stay in denial about what a mess they've made. "The longest journey starts with one step", and such.

Brett85
10-18-2013, 07:34 AM
"It's not so bad now they're using some lube"....:rolleyes:

During the Bush years the Republicans were actively trying to grow the government through laws like No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, etc. Now they at least push for some spending cuts and were the reason why we at least got the sequester. They were also rabidly pro war back then, and now you have the vast majority of Republicans in Congress who were opposed to Obama's proposed intervention in Syria. Granted, some of this improvement may be due to partisanship, the fact that we have a Democratic President rather than a Republican President. If Romney had won, things may have went back to the way they were when Bush was President. But at least for right now, the Republicans in Congress are a lot better than they were during the Bush years.

Bastiat's The Law
10-18-2013, 07:36 AM
I don't see elected folks as a net gain or loss, it's the entrenched government employees that are dragging the country down.

Heads of departments, appointed judges, comptrollers.....Folks of this ilk have far more effect on day to day life and foreign policy than those who are elected.

Politicians are afraid to even address the influence these people have, let alone threaten to take it away, to a man they pander to those who are entrenched, it's political suicide not to.

So long as we content ourselves with electing a new face to guide and shape the same leviathan it will remain unchanged, debt is the tell-tale sign to me. One head argues to spend on this, the other on that...............But spending continues.

We need to get our people into positions to cull the herd.

tod evans
10-18-2013, 07:37 AM
We need to get our people into positions to cull the herd.

Culling government employees?.....ROTFLMAO

Not with the current "Just-Us" system...

tod evans
10-18-2013, 07:39 AM
During the Bush years the Republicans were actively trying to grow the government through laws like No Child Left Behind, Medicare Part D, TARP, etc. Now they at least push for some spending cuts and were the reason why we at least got the sequester. They were also rabidly pro war back then, and now you have the vast majority of Republicans in Congress who were opposed to Obama's proposed intervention in Syria. Granted, some of this improvement may be due to partisanship, the fact that we have a Democratic President rather than a Republican President. If Romney had won, things may have went back to the way they were when Bush was President. But at least for right now, the Republicans in Congress are a lot better than they were during the Bush years.

This is the two headed monster argument made earlier...

Keith and stuff
10-18-2013, 12:23 PM
The folks controlling the party in ME, NH, IA, NV perhaps AK and other states tend to be more pro-liberty than in 2008. On a national level, more somewhat pure liberty folks are in Congress. So those are positives. Still though, the federal government is still aggressively growing year after year with no end in site :(