11 year old male convicted of murder

[devil21]

Ages seem to be going lower and lower. How can an 11 year old be an asset to his defense or even begin to understand his charges and the gravity of them???

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/12/11-year-old-boy-found-guilty-fort-_n_4089016.html?1381592316&icid=maing-grid7%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D390522

What happened to poking with sticks?

[asurfaholic]

that's sickening.

He needs to be sentenced to a lengthy term of counseling, and that's about it. I can understand expelling him from school, and I'd like to know how he got the gun - his parents are responsible for his actions too.

But sending him to jail? Come on, he's a 10 year old boy. I thought about and planned the murder of my older brother when I was that age, because I wanted his room.. He just needs a stern talking to, and he will probably be alright.

[Galileo Galilei]

under common law, you can as low as 7 years old for 1st degree murder.

[MRK]

This was actually conspiracy to commit murder, which makes the case even more interesting. Sounds to me like he just brought it with him to see what would happen and show his friends how cool he was because he had a knife and a gun. When he talked to his friend about killing the girl, I think it is possible if not likely he was just playing make believe and never intended to do so. I could be wrong of course.

[malkusm]

Not knowing the details of this particular case, but serious (hypothetical) question: Can you reconcile the view that an X year-old (X of your choosing) cannot be convicted of murder, but that the same X year-old should not be subject to "age of consent" laws? The two seem incompatible to me but I see both views espoused around here frequently.

[Galileo Galilei]

Not knowing the details of this particular case, but serious (hypothetical) question: Can you reconcile the view that an X year-old (X of your choosing) cannot be convicted of murder, but that the same X year-old should not be subject to "age of consent" laws? The two seem incompatible to me but I see both views espoused around here frequently.

It all boils down to; "how much democracy do you want?". Many think there is too much already.

[69360]

Sorry, but I think a few years in juvie is reasonable. What he did fit the legal definition of conspiracy to commit. Just the talk of it wouldn't and just the weapons wouldn't, but put them together and it does. I have an 11 year old, at that age you know right from wrong and are responsible for your actions, carrying weapons is not make believe. If it was an isolated incident, his records will be sealed and this won't haunt him as an adult.

[angelatc]

Is there a link to somewhere that isn't Huff Po, please?

NM - found it: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/12/fifth-grade-murder-plot/2973605/

Like someone pointed out above, he wasn't convicted of murder. He was convicted on conspiracy to commit murder. I don't see anything about his sentence, but




(His 10 year old co-conspirator) pleaded guilty earlier to conspiracy to commit murder and related charges. He was sentenced to three to five years in a juvenile detention facility.

[angelatc]

Sorry, but I think a few years in juvie is reasonable. What he did fit the legal definition of conspiracy to commit. Just the talk of it wouldn't and just the weapons wouldn't, but put them together and it does. I have an 11 year old, at that age you know right from wrong and are responsible for your actions, carrying weapons is not make believe. If it was an isolated incident, his records will be sealed and this won't haunt him as an adult.

There's no good place for this kid. You can't just send him back to the environment that he emerged from, but juvvie isn't all warm, fuzzy cushy rehab either.

[Origanalist]

Juvenile detention will hone whatever tendencies he may be having to a fine and lethal point. It's not going to do one damn bit of good. What? Do you think he's going to come out of that place repentant and ready to become a productive human being?

[Feeding the Abscess]

In a free society, there would probably be institutions that specialize in taking in troubled kids and teaching them life and work skills, making them productive, healthy members of society, rather than throwing them in prison and accelerating their path toward criminality and destruction.

[Anti Federalist]

9, 10 and 11 year boys routinely used to serve in warfare or work dangerous jobs.

Not saying I want to see this kid doing either of those or going to prison for that matter, but he was old enough to know what he was doing was wrong.

I agree with FTA, a free market, work/apprenticeship/servitude type of solution would probably be best.

[Origanalist]

9, 10 and 11 year boys routinely used to serve in warfare or work dangerous jobs.

Not saying I want to see this kid doing either of those or going to prison for that matter, but he was old enough to know what he was doing was wrong.

I agree with FTA, a free market, work/apprenticeship/servitude type of solution would probably be best.

He obviously was old enough to know it was wrong. The kid has some bad issues, my point is simply that putting him in that environment is only going to make them worse.


I agree with FTA, a free market, work/apprenticeship/servitude type of solution would probably be best.

So do I.

[Keith and stuff]

If someone can be found guilty of murder at all. Does that make the person an adult? Should he be able to vote? It might be unfair to treat him as an adult in some ways and not in others.

[angelatc]

I agree with FTA, a free market, work/apprenticeship/servitude type of solution would probably be best.

I don't disagree. But how would you force him into such an environment?

[Origanalist]

I don't disagree. But how would you force him into such an environment?

Give him the choice, that or real imprisonment. Make it plain those are his only options.

[Smart3]

Children are fully capable of murder and understanding the ramifications of their actions.

What kept me from killing anyone at that age was being put in a cage for the rest of my life. Long or life prison sentences are a great deterrent.

[Origanalist]

Really? The only thing that kept you from killing someone at ten years old was fear of imprisonment?

[eduardo89]

What kept me from killing anyone at that age was being put in a cage for the rest of my life. Long or life prison sentences are a great deterrent.

Scary that the possibility of jail is what prevented your from murdering anyone instead of know that killing is wrong. By age 10-11 a normal kid should know that murder is wrong and that should be enough to stop them.

[Brian4Liberty]

Thankfully no murder took place. But bringing a loaded gun to school plus the stated intent to murder make this something that can not be ignored. In addition to any other efforts to rehabilitate or shape these kids, they probably bought themselves a minimum of 10 years of psychological evaluation.

[Origanalist]

Thankfully no murder took place. But bringing a loaded gun to school plus the stated intent to murder make this something that can not be ignored. In addition to any other efforts to rehabilitate or shape these kids, they probably bought themselves a minimum of 10 years of psychological evaluation.

Ignore it? Absolutely not.

[Smart3]

Really? The only thing that kept you from killing someone at ten years old was fear of imprisonment?

Scary that the possibility of jail is what prevented your from murdering anyone instead of know that killing is wrong. By age 10-11 a normal kid should know that murder is wrong and that should be enough to stop them.

Don't pretend you didn't want to kill someone at that age. Perhaps a teacher you didn't like, or a bully at school, etc.

[Origanalist]

Don't pretend you didn't want to kill someone at that age. Perhaps a teacher you didn't like, or a bully at school, etc.

Don't project your rage onto me.

[angelatc]

Don't pretend you didn't want to kill someone at that age. Perhaps a teacher you didn't like, or a bully at school, etc.

I don't need to pretend that I didn't take a knife and a firearm with a fully loaded magazine to school in my backpack.

[eduardo89]

Don't pretend you didn't want to kill someone at that age. Perhaps a teacher you didn't like, or a bully at school, etc.

Maybe in a fit of rage for a second or two, but it never went beyond a fleeting though. Not because I feared jail, but because I'm not a sociopath and I understand murder is always wrong, even at that age I knew it was wrong.

[Smart3]

Maybe in a fit of rage for a second or two, but it never went beyond a fleeting though. Not because I feared jail, but because I'm not a sociopath and I understand murder is always wrong, even at that age I knew it was wrong.

Psychopath, not sociopath.

and most successful and powerful men have psychopathic tendencies.

[eduardo89]

Psychopath, not sociopath.

and most successful and powerful men have psychopathic tendencies.

Same difference. Don't know which one you are, but you're creepy.

[Smart3]

Sociopath, not psychopath. Politicians are sociopaths, Charles Manson is a psychopath.
I wasn't talking about low-level politicians.

People forget that most psychopaths have never hurt humans before, only animals. It's easy to assume most hunters (for sport, not food) have psychopathic tendencies.

[Origanalist]

Psychopath, not sociopath.

and most successful and powerful men have psychopathic tendencies.

So this means we have our own resident psychopath?

[Theocrat]

When family government breaks down, incidents like the OP and this will be the result:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcqOgnQyXp4

[Smart3]

So this means we have our own resident psychopath?
Why does the subject of psychopathy surprise you?

Ayn Rand idolized psychopaths (and sociopaths for that matter):


This echoes almost word for word Rand's later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: "He was born without the ability to consider others."

[Origanalist]

Why does the subject of psychopathy surprise you?

Ayn Rand idolized psychopaths (and sociopaths for that matter):

This echoes almost word for word Rand's later description of her character Howard Roark, the hero of her novel The Fountainhead: "He was born without the ability to consider others."

She thought killing babies was a grand idea too, I can see why you would reference her.

[eduardo89]

Ayn Rand idolized psychopaths (and sociopaths for that matter):

She likely was one. Can't stand that hag. Can't stand you, either.

[heavenlyboy34]

So this means we have our own resident psychopath?
Ya mean teh Collinz?