How come the GOP didn't negotiate well before the shutdown?

[sdsubball23]

How come the GOP didn't negotiate well before the shutdown? I'm not sure the reasons why not, but it appears they refused to negotiate based on this article.

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/01/republicans-admitted-negotiate-budget-hostage.html

I feel like I'm unsure who the culprit is for this mess. I understand the democrats right now want an all or nothing approach and I think they should just take the piecemeal approach and negotiate the other stuff afterwards. However, unless I'm mistaken or misinformed, the GOP seemed to have time before the shutdown to negotiate the budget, but it appears they refused.

What do you guys think?

[enhanced_deficit]

Because GOPers are troublemakrs and blink testers:


How much little steadfastness from Tea Party has already accomplished and blinkershas blinked again.

Democrats crack open in debt-limit fight

http://images.politico.com/global/news/110519_reid_durbin_schumer_murray_shinkle_328.jpg The stakes in the debt-ceiling fight couldn’t be higher. | John Shinkle/POLITICO


By MANU RAJU (http://www.politico.com/reporters/ManuRaju.html) and JOHN BRESNAHAN (http://www.politico.com/reporters/JohnBresnahan.html) | 10/7/13 7:07 PM EDT Updated: 10/9/13 4:45 PM EDT
For the past several weeks, Senate Democrats and the White House have shown a remarkable amount of unity in the controversial fight surrounding the debt ceiling.
Then came shutdown Day Seven.

Just as top Senate Democrats began to lay the groundwork to raise the U.S. government’s borrowing limit through 2014, senior White House officials refused to rule out a short-term increase. The divergent messages caused major heartburn for top Senate Democrats and gave Republicans fresh hope that they could defeat a yearlong debt ceiling hike and win concessions from President Barack Obama in this fall’s fiscal battles.

By late Monday afternoon, nervous Senate Democrats had reached out to the White House to ensure they were on the same page — and the concerns on Capitol Hill seemed to be alleviated after senior administration officials downplayed the idea of a short-term increase.

But the incident underscored the fear among the congressional Democratic leadership that President Barack Obama may eventually back away from the no-negotiation stance he and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) have voiced for weeks in order to avoid a first-ever default. And it raised questions about Senate Democrats’ next step in the debt ceiling debate if Republicans successfully filibuster a bill to increase the $16.7 trillion national debt ceiling.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/democrats-debt-limit-fight-97955.html (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/democrats-debt-limit-fight-97955.html#ixzz2hGRJ471r)

This was yesterday:

By late Monday afternoon, nervous Senate Democrats had reached out to the White House to ensure they were on the same page — and the concerns on Capitol Hill seemed to be alleviated after senior administration officials downplayed the idea of a short-term increase.

Today:

Obama Open to Talks, Short-Term Debt Deal (http://www.voanews.com/content/republicans-call-for-wide-open-us-budget-talks/1765346.html)
In-Depth-Voice of America-8 hours ago


This is yet another blink by SWC Obama. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429877-Speaker-Boehner-s-ultimatum-to-Obama-quot-There-will-be-negotiations-quot&)

President Obama keeps blinking under pressure (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/matt-miller-president-obama-keeps-blinking-under-pressure/2013/09/18/f606a27c-2061-11e3-94a2-6c66b668ea55_story.html)
Washington Post

[bolil]

Cause the show of dispute must go on. Not that it needs to, people are so fucking stupid that the show is redundant. Just give em porn and they will do what you want.

[better-dead-than-fed]

How come the GOP didn't negotiate well before the shutdown?

Why would they concede anything?


I feel like I'm unsure who the culprit is for this mess. I understand the democrats right now want an all or nothing approach and I think they should just take the piecemeal approach and negotiate the other stuff afterwards. However, unless I'm mistaken or misinformed, the GOP seemed to have time before the shutdown to negotiate the budget, but it appears they refused.

What do you guys think?

Why do you describe the shutdown as a 'mess'? Why don't you like the shutdown?

[ghengis86]

They must play their roles in the kubaki theater to get paid. Sort of like asking, "why did you go to work?!" Uh, to get paid.

Nothing more, nothing less. Same as it ever was

[sdsubball23]

Why would they concede anything?



Why do you describe the shutdown as a 'mess'? Why don't you like the shutdown?

If they conceded to a negotiation, then they could have come to an agreement on the budget and prevented a shutdown. What do you think?

I think the shutdown is a mess because there are people being affected by this even though it's not a full gov't shutdown. There are cancer patients that aren't getting NIH trials, there are gov't employees not getting paid right now even though they may get back pay.

[sdsubball23]

Interesting news enhanced_deficit, but how come the GOP has to use these tactics to try to get their way? Isn't there another way to they figure out to negotiate obamacare and the debt ceiling without shutting down the gov't?

[EBounding]

The establishment GOP actually loves Obamacare. They don't care whether it's destructive or not (it is Romneycare), but they love how it rallies the base, so they're going to keep it going for as long as possible.

http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/our-predictions-about-the-obamacare-congame

[HOLLYWOOD]

This goes for EVERYTHING related to .GOV... whether local, state, federal.

How do you weaken any political party or proletariat ? You divide them!

This is why government and the money masters spend so much time dividing the people. Divide them into groups, weakens their unity and power, which then reflects into more power and control by government.


How do you weaken the opposing party? You divide them... and that's exactly what has gone on back in 2011 and now 2013 with the Constitutionalists/Conservatives/Tea Party vs. Establishment, Crony, Mafioso GOP party elitists. The Liberal media has spend the last few weeks, countless hours, dividing the republican party to weaken it, turn members on one another, and pump up the Marxist left as the saviors. See the million threads on Obama/WH & IRS/DOJ targeting conservative groups, like Constitutionalists & Tea Parties in 2011, 2012 for elections.


BUT... in the end game, it's all rigged, the illusion, phony freedom of choice... it's all political Kabuki Theater to keep the people divided, keep the political parties divided, keep the 2 Mafioso Establishment Crime families in power to continue the stealing from YOU, U.S.... to give to the wealthy money masters as they enrich themselves.

[Carson]

This chart seems to say a lot. Then it doesn't show the way we are being held hostage in order for them to have their way with us once again.

http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/morestuff/debtfiasco.png

[surf]

sell Amtrak

[angelatc]

I feel like I'm unsure who the culprit is for this mess.

What do you guys think?

What mess?

[specsaregood]

I think the shutdown is a mess because there are people being affected by this even though it's not a full gov't shutdown. There are cancer patients that aren't getting NIH trials, there are gov't employees not getting paid right now even though they may get back pay.

Are you of the opinion that we should be federal funding of NIH trials or having most of those govt employees jobs existing in the first place?

[better-dead-than-fed]

What do you think?

I am grateful for the shutdown. I give much credit to the Tea Party, but I also give some credit to Obama, for shutting down a few things the GOP didn't want shut down.


There are cancer patients that aren't getting NIH trials,

The government should not have been involving itself in health care in the first place; this correction is long overdue. Socialized health care increases the population-density, and that is probably why these people have cancer in the first place. Of course, cancer patients should be free to seek treatment elsewhere, but socialized health care hurts children, so I am happy to see it shut down.


there are gov't employees not getting paid right now even though they may get back pay.

Giving back-pay to government employees is a mess, so I would like to see back-pay get shut down too. Moreover, government employment is a mess, and the more it is shut down, the better.


If they conceded to a negotiation, then they could have come to an agreement on the budget

Unless I'm misunderstanding, they did come to an agreement, and the agreement was to shut some things down.

[malkusm]

sell Amtrak

Who would buy such an unprofitable enterprise? Except for the value of the capital?

[angelatc]

Who would buy such an unprofitable enterprise? Except for the value of the capital?

The value is in the tracks.

[RabbitMan]

Are you of the opinion that we should be federal funding of NIH trials or having most of those govt employees jobs existing in the first place?

Many people are of the opinion that you don't just cut services to people who both depend on them and believe they are in a contract and thus are planning on it for their well being. Regardless, their are important health matters to deal with like the semenela out break that the Gov. cant deal with, and brewers who can't get their labels and breweries authorized or tested until this whole MESS is done with.

No one is arguing that there are not people to blame, but to say that this situation isn't a mess is ridiculous. I can't defend the GOP or even Rand right now when I speak to any normal person because it is obvious there was no attempt to really reconcile the differences beforehand. Trying to negotiate while people are waiting on this both pumps up the stakes and pisses a lot of people off.

[pcosmar]

How come the GOP didn't negotiate well before the shutdown?

Negotiate what?

I remember that Ron Paul offered a solution,, but the media did not report it,,

And the general public was unaware of it.

Cut Government and stop spending.
The rest of the GOP were pushing the Father of ObamaCare and more War.

[better-dead-than-fed]

their are important health matters to deal with like the semenela out break that the Gov. cant deal with, and brewers who can't get their labels and breweries authorized or tested until this whole MESS is done with.

Here is what a real mess looks like:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b7/Population_curve.svg/550px-Population_curve.svg.png

The thing you're calling a 'mess' is actually a solution to the real mess. Without a solution, the real mess will turn catastrophic.


services to people who both depend on them and believe they are in a contract and thus are planning on it for their well being.

Those 'services' aren't natural rights, and the government should not have been in the business of providing those services in the first place. The correction is overdue.


Many people are of the opinion that you don't just cut

The people of that opinion are people who want to steal, want to increase population-density, and want to create debt passed on to young people. They are tyrannical.