Heritage Action Bails On Debt Ceiling Fight

[JCDenton0451]

Heritage Action Bails On Debt Ceiling Fight (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/heritage-debt-ceiling_n_4070242.html)
A crack appeared Wednesday morning in the conservatives' united front against President Barack Obama in the budget-and-borrowing crisis of 2013.

Michael Needham, CEO of the powerful group Heritage Action, said that he opposed conditioning a crucial vote to increase the government's borrowing authority on the group's main goal: defunding Obamacare.


Under questioning at a breakfast with reporters, hosted by the Christian Science Monitor, Needham, a product of the Stanford Business School, conceded that failure to raise the debt ceiling would indeed disrupt the global economy.


"I'm sure the markets will react negatively," he said, even if, as he suggested was possible, the Treasury could "prioritize" interest payments to foreign bondholders.


Rather than try to hold the debt ceiling vote hostage to the defunding of Obamacare, he said, the better "tactical" course for Heritage and other key foes of the administration is to continue to focus on annual spending -- and on allowing the full opening of government only if Obamacare is dismantled.


"No, we should raise the debt limit," he said, though he added that he would oppose an increase that extends until after the 2014 election, which is Obama's preferred outcome.


But with regards to the government shutdown, Needham insisted that his group would continue to oppose any continuing resolution -- no matter how short in duration -- that did not defund the health care law.


"My tactic is to focus on the CR," he said.


Matt Kibbe, the president and CEO of the influential conservative group FreedomWorks, also said in a Wednesday interview with The Huffington Post that the debt ceiling should be raised in order to keep the Obamacare fight focused on the continuing resolution.


"This is an emerging set of opinions that looks to be where everybody's gravitating to," he said.

[JCDenton0451]

No comments? To me, it looks like the fever is breaking.

[specsaregood]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.

[JCDenton0451]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.

Actually, Heritage has been the brain behind this whole operation, I mean the defunding plot.

[specsaregood]

Actually, Heritage has been the brain behind this whole operation, I mean the defunding plot.

So they didn't write the legislation?

[JCDenton0451]

So they didn't write the legislation?

There is a thread about that. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429552-Obamacare-INVENTED-by-Conservatives-Do-they-seek-redemption-!-!-!) Personally, I'm not sure what they're up to. I think their main goal is to collect donations:

Koch Bros. gave $500k to Heritage Action (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/koch-brothers-heritage-action-donation-98054.html?hp=r3)

Conservative billionaires Charles and David Koch have another political cause — Heritage Action Fund.


The megadonors have cut a check for half a million dollars to the group, which is often at odds with the GOP establishment and has made attacking Republicans a common practice this year.


The group’s CEO Mike Needham confirmed the contribution Wednesday morning at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast.


The discussion about the Kochs’ financial contribution to Heritage Action comes as the group is pushing Republican lawmakers to make defunding Obamacare a provision in a deal to fund the government and raise the country’s debt ceiling.


Heritage Action’s position is at odds with Koch Companies, which moved Wednesday to publicly tell lawmakers that while it believes Obamacare will increase deficits, raise taxes, among others things, it isn’t pushing lawmakers to include defunding Obamacare in a government funding package.


“Koch has not taken a position on the legislative tact of tying the continuing resolution to defunding Obamacare nor have we lobbied on legislative provisions defunding Obamacare,” Philip Ellender, president of government and public affairs at Koch wrote in a letter sent Wednesday to senators. “Instead, Koch has focused on educating the public about reducing our nation’s debt and controlling runaway government spending.”

[Antischism]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.

The original Heritage plan (the mandate) was on a federal level. Here's the book (http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/1989/pdf/ci_0891950494.pdf) that outlines it. That was in 1989. What's funny is they're trying to do damage control and lie by stating it was only in response to BillaryCare and that Milton Friedman came up with it first using statements he made more than two years after the Heritage publication.

Gingrich got the individual mandate from Heritage, Romney from Gingrich, then eventually Obama from Romney. Gingrich was always a staunch supporter of a federal individual mandate.

Stuart Butler's "Assuring Affordable Healthcare for All Americans (http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1989_assuring_affordable_health_care_for_all_ameri cans.pdf)" in 1989.

They apparently "changed their mind" on it, and now want to "defund" it, which isn't going to happen. If it were a Republican in office and the individual mandate were popular, you can damn well bet they'd instead be taking credit for it. This leads me to believe that there are other motives behind the government paid vacation.

[specsaregood]

They apparently "changed their mind" on it, and now want to "defund" it, which isn't going to happen. If it were a Republican in office and the individual mandate were popular, you can damn well bet they'd instead be taking credit for it. This leads me to believe that there are other motives behind the government paid vacation.

There is another term for it, "controlled opposition". so like I said, never really an ally in this fight.

[juleswin]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.

They came up with the individual mandate part of it cos they believed it was promoting personal responsibility by forcing everyone to buy insurance

[angelatc]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.


You heard it from JCDenton, who also thinks we are all nothing but a bunch of racists. They twist facts and openly lie just to create discontent in the GOP. They are also masters of keeping us on defense. They are pure evil.

Note that I have rebutted and added context to quite a bit of what these three are here repeating, so they abandon those threads and start new ones. They are trolling, and they are doing an excellent job of poisoning the well.

Which is the only reason they are here.

[JCDenton0451]

You heard it from JCDenton, who also thinks we are all nothing but a bunch of racists. They twist facts and openly lie just to create discontent in the GOP. They are also masters of keeping us on defense. They are pure evil.

LOL

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even read this post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429972-Heritage-Action-Bails-On-Debt-Ceiling-Fight&p=5261608&viewfull=1#post5261608)?

[angelatc]

They came up with the individual mandate part of it cos they believed it was promoting personal responsibility by forcing everyone to buy insurance


I can't help you if you want to stay a stupid puppet to liberal propoganda but the truth is they came up with tax breaks for people who carried catastrophic coverage as part of a plan to end Medicare.

They came up with the plan in the late 80's in response to the plan that future President Clinton was stumping with on the campaign trail. Note that when HillaryCare failed, they didn't try to keep pushing the plan through Congress.

Hillarycare gave subsidies to insurance companies, penalized people for not being healthy, wanted all kinds of routine procedures covered, and used the IRS Gestapo tactics to enforce the measures.

The GOP plan gave tax breaks to people who carried catastrophic coverage, contained an opt-out-of-Medicare plan, and didn't make old men pay for maternity insurance.

But here in Ron Paul World, those two plans are identical. Therefore the only reason we don't support Obamacare is that we are racists.

That's the crap you're agreeing with?

[angelatc]

LOL

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even read this post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429972-Heritage-Action-Bails-On-Debt-Ceiling-Fight&p=5261608&viewfull=1#post5261608)?


Yes. And you are evil. You come here just to destroy any cohesion we might have, playing these poor kids for the idiots they are. You have an agenda, and it isn't one of freedom and liberty.

Repeating lies, keeping people on defense, destroying relationships - that's all you want from this place.

You have all the talking points down: racist! Koch Brothers!

You bring nothing positive here, and if I found out you died a horrible painful death, I'd be a happy camper.

[JCDenton0451]

Yes. And you are evil. You come here just to destroy any cohesion we might have, playing these poor kids for the idiots they are. You have an agenda, and it isn't one of freedom and liberty.

You're not 'racist', angela. You're irrational, and that's worse.

[specsaregood]

I can't help you if you want to stay a stupid puppet to liberal propoganda but the truth is they came up with tax breaks for people who carried catastrophic coverage as part of a plan to end Medicare.

They came up with the plan in the late 80's in response to the plan that future President Clinton was stumping with on the campaign trail. Note that when HillaryCare failed, they didn't try to keep pushing the plan through Congress.

Hillarycare gave subsidies to insurance companies, penalized people for not being healthy, wanted all kinds of routine procedures covered, and used the IRS Gestapo tactics to enforce the measures.

The GOP plan gave tax breaks to people who carried catastrophic coverage, contained an opt-out-of-Medicare plan, and didn't make old men pay for maternity insurance.

But here in Ron Paul World, those two plans are identical. Therefore the only reason we don't support Obamacare is that we are racists.

That's the crap you're agreeing with?

good info, thanks.

[FrankRep]

Didn't I hear something about heritage writing obamacare? If true; I don't see why anybody would have ever thought them an ally I defunding the POS.

You're thinking of RomneyCare

[FrankRep]

There is a thread about that. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429552-Obamacare-INVENTED-by-Conservatives-Do-they-seek-redemption-!-!-!) Personally, I'm not sure what they're up to. I think their main goal is to collect donations:

Koch Bros. gave $500k to Heritage Action (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/koch-brothers-heritage-action-donation-98054.html?hp=r3)

Koch Brothers also donated to Rand Paul.

[angelatc]

The megadonors have cut a check for half a million dollars to the group, which is often at odds with the GOP establishment and has made attacking Republicans a common practice this year.

So, since I guess that since we are also at odds with the GOP establishment, and we also make attacking Republicans a common practice every year, the whole reason this organization is evil is because KOCH BROTHERS?

Or is it because they want to compromise - they know the debt ceiling is going to get raised regardless - so they want to use it as a bargaining chip? That'snot ideal, but at least it helps us long term - TEA Party insurgents NEED the GOP to vote to increase the debt ceiling, because it gives them red meat in the primaries. (Ask Kerry Bentivolio about this.)

We don't want any of this to happen, but at least it's happening before the elections.

Really, how can anybody take JCDenton seriously? He is just a troll - he has no other reason to be here. He's not voting for Ben Swann, he's not sending money to Justin Amash, he's not pointing out any of the flaws in Obamacare, or posting any articles about the Senate Dems refusing to negotiate at all on anything.

He's here destroying anything that anybody tried to build.

This is exactly why Democratic Underground doesn't allow dissent. It is non-productive - it serves only to destroy the mission you're trying to achieve.

[matt0611]

LMAO

Democrats yesterday: "Debt = bad, shouldn't raise debt ceiling"

Democrats today: "We must raise debt ceiling no matter what with no conditions. Or else..."

:rolleyes:

This video says it all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOq2-zOUj80

[better-dead-than-fed]

He's here destroying anything that anybody tried to build.

This is exactly why Democratic Underground doesn't allow dissent. It is non-productive - it serves only to destroy the mission you're trying to achieve.

You're wrong; fallacious arguments are easily refuted, and that process is more productive than censorship; and you're promoting fascism, but your tantrums are harmless, and they should not ban you, IMHO. If you don't learn how to argue effectively with the opposition here, you're going to be less useful out in the real world. Time to take the training wheels off.

[kahless]

You're thinking of RomneyCare

Farther back it seems, Hillary care is mentioned in this video. I see this coming up from time to time so I decided to poke around on the Heritage site and found this FNC interview with Stuart Butler of Heritage.
http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/video/2012/03/butler-fnc-3-28-12
or video only link
http://bcove.me/7mytoosh

He says he and Heritage did believe the mandate was a "necessary evil" but abandoned the idea 10 years ago. In this video he claims they did not support Romney mandate.

[69360]

Wait, this isn't the Heritage foundation that Demint runs right? This is some other group?

[Matt Collins]

There is a thread about that. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429552-Obamacare-INVENTED-by-Conservatives-Do-they-seek-redemption-!-!-!) Personally, I'm not sure what they're up to. I think their main goal is to collect donations:

Koch Bros. gave $500k to Heritage Action (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/koch-brothers-heritage-action-donation-98054.html?hp=r3)


So? Their budget is $80 million. I don't think $500k is that large of a deal to them. And besides, even if it is, so what? That doesn't necessarily mean that they will change their policies based upon their donors.


Oh, and this:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

[angelatc]

Wait, this isn't the Heritage foundation that Demint runs right? This is some other group?

Its a sister organization.

[juleswin]

I can't help you if you want to stay a stupid puppet to liberal propoganda but the truth is they came up with tax breaks for people who carried catastrophic coverage as part of a plan to end Medicare.

They came up with the plan in the late 80's in response to the plan that future President Clinton was stumping with on the campaign trail. Note that when HillaryCare failed, they didn't try to keep pushing the plan through Congress.

Hillarycare gave subsidies to insurance companies, penalized people for not being healthy, wanted all kinds of routine procedures covered, and used the IRS Gestapo tactics to enforce the measures.

The GOP plan gave tax breaks to people who carried catastrophic coverage, contained an opt-out-of-Medicare plan, and didn't make old men pay for maternity insurance.

But here in Ron Paul World, those two plans are identical. Therefore the only reason we don't support Obamacare is that we are racists.

That's the crap you're agreeing with?

To be clear the Heritage foundation health reform is very different from Obamacare and it is actually better than Obamacare in every respect but the part that I am concerned with is that fact that it contained a version of the individual mandate and that is true regardless of how you want to spin it. I can dig up the article with the president of Heritage Health Network saying so himself. Giving someone a tax break or penalty for not doing something is what we now call the individual mandate.