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tod evans
10-09-2013, 04:11 AM
The 2013 Battle of Yorktown -- restaurant owner defies feds

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/08/2013-battle-yorktown-restaurant-owner-defies-feds/

“I am now occupying the building at this time.”

And with that one decision – restaurant owner Glenn Helseth joined the ranks of Americans who’ve decided to defy the strong-arm tactics of the National Park Service.

For the past 11 years Helseth and his wife have operated the Carrot Tree Kitchens Restaurant inside the historic Cole Digges House in Yorktown, Va.

At least 20 of Helseth's longtime employees are facing unemployment. They can’t make rent and some are faced with choosing between buying food or buying medicine.
The National Park Service owns and operates the building. So when the government shut down on Oct. 1, the Helseths were given 48 hours to pack up and move out.

The couple also owns a restaurant on Jamestown Island. They had to close that restaurant after the National Park Service blocked access to the island.

“We’re upset on a number of levels – not the least of which is the impending financial doom that Carrot Tree faces,” Glenn told me.

At least 20 of his longtime employees are facing the unemployment line. They can’t make rent and some are faced with choosing between buying food or buying medicine.

So Glenn decided it was time to take some action – and at 11 a.m. ET he reopened the Carrot Tree Kitchens Restaurant – in defiance of the federal government.

“I intend to serve everybody that wants to dine with me,” he said. “I don’t intend to close my doors. I am occupying Carrot Tree Yorktown.”

Glenn said he is well aware that he is breaking the law – but he told me enough is enough.

“I’m serving Brunswick stew, ham biscuits and carrot cake,” he said. “If that gets me put in jail, I’m going to jail.”

Glenn said it just doesn’t make sense to close down the restaurant – especially since it’s a money-maker.

“I’m making money for the government,” he said. “I send them a check every month.”

But he also pointed out that even though the building is technically closed – he’s still required to maintain insurance, utilities and rent. He also has to pay for the building’s security system – even though the NPS kicked them out.

“I don’t wish to take a stand against my government,” he said. “I’ve always been very proud of my country. [But] I don’t agree with what’s happening. I can no longer abide by what’s happening.”

And Glenn has a message for our lawmakers.

“They talk about this [shutdown] having a minimal impact on the economy,” he said. “They need to come down to my level and look at my people and say, ‘We’re going to shut you down. You cannot make any money because we can’t administrate.’”

He said Congress is putting politics ahead of people.

“Let them come and lay my people off,” he said. “Let them come and tell my staff they are out of work.”

Glenn decided to make his stand against the government when he bumped into some of his regular customers over the weekend.

One of his favorite customers is Mama – and she turned 100 years old Tuesday.

“I told them to bring her to my restaurant,” he said. “She’s 100-years-old. She wants to eat Brunswick stew, ham biscuits and carrot cake.”

And so today at 11 a.m. Mama was seated in the dining room of the Carrot Tree Kitchens Restaurant where she was served a bowl of Brunswick stew, a ham biscuit and a slice of birthday carrot cake.

“Let the pomposities in Washington tell her 'no,'” Glenn said.

Benjamin Franklin once said, “Where liberty is, there is my country.”

And in the case of Patriot Glenn Helseth, where liberty is, there is my carrot cake.

Mani
10-09-2013, 04:17 AM
Now that is an American Patriot!!!!


I hope he triples his business because of his stand.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 04:56 AM
Beautiful, simply and utterly beautiful!

And, "happy birthday, Mama" :)

Anti Federalist
10-09-2013, 05:34 AM
Good for him.

Although I expect a SWAT raid is forthcoming.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 05:49 AM
Good for him.

Although I expect a SWAT raid is forthcoming.

Any liberty militia in the area? Where's oathkeepers, will they help protect them? Will no one in the area stand with them?

Tod
10-09-2013, 05:55 AM
Any liberty militia in the area? Where's oathkeepers, will they help protect them? Will no one in the area stand with them?

good luck with that.

tod evans
10-09-2013, 05:56 AM
Any liberty militia in the area? Where's oathkeepers, will they help protect them? Will no one in the area stand with them?

jllundqu claims to be actively involved with oathkeepers yet I haven't seen one instance of any of them actually doing anything more than speaking out.

Maybe they'd be brave enough to write a strongly worded letter on this dudes behalf?

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:02 AM
jllundqu claims to be actively involved with oathkeepers yet I haven't seen one instance of any of them actually doing anything more than speaking out.

Maybe they'd be brave enough to write a strongly worded letter on this dudes behalf?

My concealed carry is no good in VA. Maybe it's time to get the non-resident Utah permit, I think it's good in VA and lots of other states. IN permits are not valid in but a few.

Tod
10-09-2013, 06:04 AM
My concealed carry is no good in VA. Maybe it's time to get the non-resident Utah permit, I think it's good in VA and lots of other states. IN permits are not valid in but a few.

:rolleyes:

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:06 AM
:rolleyes:

What? You don't think that it's time for someone to start standing with those that are willing to take a stand?

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:08 AM
I'll just drop this off here, maybe someone can find a correlation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V74AxCqOTvg

Tod
10-09-2013, 06:09 AM
What? You don't think that it's time for someone to start standing with those that are willing to take a stand?

If you are going to take a gun to the fight, you must intend on not using it or even threatening to use it or you wouldn't be asking government for permission.


Sorry, guys, the rebellion is off. We couldn't get a rebellion permit.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:14 AM
If you are going to take a gun to the fight, you must intend on not using it or even threatening to use it or you wouldn't be asking government for permission.

Okay, first, you have to get to your destination without getting arrested for not having a permit. Once you get there you have to make it about the subject at hand, not a different subject. That is, it's not about my 2nd Amendment right to carry, but about why I am carrying. I don't want to have to defend my right to carry while trying to defend his right to do business. "Yes, I have a valid permit".

Now, we can discuss whether I am ready to die to defend his rights. That decision would already be made, if I were to go. And, just for the record, I've never been in the military nor have I taken "the" oath.

Tod
10-09-2013, 06:20 AM
Okay, first, you have to get to your destination without getting arrested for not having a permit. Once you get there you have to make it about the subject at hand, not a different subject. That is, it's not about my 2nd Amendment right to carry, but about why I am carrying. I don't want to have to defend my right to carry while trying to defend his right to do business. "Yes, I have a valid permit".

Okay, I'll play. Let's say you get your permits. First of all they will say you are trespassing to even BE there. Second, is your permit valid in a closed national park historic site?

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:23 AM
Okay, I'll play. Let's say you get your permits. First of all they will say you are trespassing to even BE there. Second, is your permit valid in a closed national park?

We can play games all day. There comes a point, within the destination, to where confrontation is possible, likely, very likely, etc...

A call to the person, subject of the stand, would need to be made to make sure that they are willing to be defended, "May I bring my carry to your restaurant?", "How may I get there..."

shane77m
10-09-2013, 06:32 AM
good luck with that.

exactly

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:34 AM
*smfh*

torchbearer
10-09-2013, 06:36 AM
doesn't it seem like the guy thinks congress is directing the park rangers and not the chief exec?

tod evans
10-09-2013, 06:36 AM
What? You don't think that it's time for someone to start standing with those that are willing to take a stand?

I respect Clyde for offering to do something.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
10-09-2013, 06:38 AM
....

shane77m
10-09-2013, 06:40 AM
It would be nice if the militias or the Oathkeepers would start doing something. My comments about it over at a blog I sometimes visit never get posted. The owner of the blog keeps spouting the slogan of "no more free Wacos". I like to remind him that Waco's happen everyday but I don't see the 3%'rs doing anything about it.

Tod
10-09-2013, 06:42 AM
....


I think it is safe to say that the building is owned by the NPS but the business is operated (and possibly owned, with certain rules from the NPS) by the guy.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 06:45 AM
I respect Clyde for offering to do something.

Well, I haven't actually offered, yet. I was hoping someone in that area there would at least look in to it.

Like I said, the owner of the restaurant would need to be contacted and arrangements made. Find out what the situation in the area is. I would want to be there as a long term customer (days?). Not looking to force a fire-fight, but making a stand. Somehow, "Mama" was able to get there for a birthday meal.

Perhaps a firearm is not needed, just dissent, willing to go to jail, etc... It's almost completely up to the owner and the willingness of the participant.

Now, whether a larger force, say an oath-keeper squad (or whatever they are calling it) was willing to "force" the unblocking of a driveway or something is another matter.

tod evans
10-09-2013, 06:50 AM
Well, I haven't actually offered, yet. I was hoping someone in that area there would at least look in to it.

Like I said, the owner of the restaurant would need to be contacted and arrangements made. Find out what the situation in the area is. I would want to be there as a long term customer (days?). Not looking to force a fire-fight, but making a stand. Somehow, "Mama" was able to get there for a birthday meal.

Now, whether a larger force, say an oath-keeper squad (or whatever they are calling it) was willing to "force" the unblocking of a driveway or something is another matter.

What I expect out of oathkeepers is nothing more than they've done so far, lip service to the constitution.

It's the percentage of "them" who actively violate the document they claim to hold so dear that causes me to doubt the sincerity of the entire organization.

Publicity and rhetoric seem to be their strong suit and they, admittedly, do well in the media.

shane77m
10-09-2013, 06:54 AM
Well, I haven't actually offered, yet. I was hoping someone in that area there would at least look in to it.

Like I said, the owner of the restaurant would need to be contacted and arrangements made. Find out what the situation in the area is. I would want to be there as a long term customer (days?). Not looking to force a fire-fight, but making a stand. Somehow, "Mama" was able to get there for a birthday meal.

Perhaps a firearm is not needed, just dissent, willing to go to jail, etc... It's almost completely up to the owner and the willingness of the participant.

Now, whether a larger force, say an oath-keeper squad (or whatever they are calling it) was willing to "force" the unblocking of a driveway or something is another matter.

I wonder what it would take to call the Feds bluff? I have a feeling that if enough unarmed people showed up, the Feds might "make and exception" and leave the business owner alone. Then again though, it could be a pepper spray, rubber bullets, and other less than lethal device party.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 07:04 AM
I wonder what it would take to call the Feds bluff? I have a feeling that if enough unarmed people showed up, the Feds might "make and exception" and leave the business owner alone. Then again though, it could be a pepper spray, rubber bullets, and other less than lethal device party.

I think anyone that wanted to "take a stand" would have to evaluate their convictions as to the level that they are ready to go. And all parties to the effort would have to all have the same level of willingness that is agreed upon. That is, is it dissent, or defensive stand, etc...

If dissent, then yes, anyone going would need to be willing to be sound-blasted, pepper or gas sprayed, etc... And even then, there's no guarantee that your life is not in danger.

I would not go with any "hope" that "they" will back down.

UtahApocalypse
10-09-2013, 07:14 AM
Don't know what's in Brunswick stew, ham biscuits I've never tried, not a huge carrot cake fan....

Sounds like an amazing lunch right now. Wish I was closer.

jtap
10-09-2013, 07:19 AM
What a waste of time if they come to police this. Tip: Anyone there should hide their dogs.

PaulConventionWV
10-09-2013, 07:19 AM
Time to start another Occupy movement?

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 07:21 AM
Time to start another Occupy movement?

Occupy Restaurant? :D

PaulConventionWV
10-09-2013, 07:26 AM
Don't know what's in Brunswick stew, ham biscuits I've never tried, not a huge carrot cake fan....

Sounds like an amazing lunch right now. Wish I was closer.

Keep in mind she's 100 years old.

PaulConventionWV
10-09-2013, 07:27 AM
Occupy Restaurant? :D

Exactly.

Demigod
10-09-2013, 07:50 AM
Well, I haven't actually offered, yet. I was hoping someone in that area there would at least look in to it.

Like I said, the owner of the restaurant would need to be contacted and arrangements made. Find out what the situation in the area is. I would want to be there as a long term customer (days?). Not looking to force a fire-fight, but making a stand. Somehow, "Mama" was able to get there for a birthday meal.

Perhaps a firearm is not needed, just dissent, willing to go to jail, etc... It's almost completely up to the owner and the willingness of the participant.

Now, whether a larger force, say an oath-keeper squad (or whatever they are calling it) was willing to "force" the unblocking of a driveway or something is another matter.

Using weapons is a bad idea unless you plan to start an armed rebellion .If you even just use guns as a threat that means the mountain is under your control and the government will come to take it back.

The bold part is the correct way.THEY CAN NOT ARREST YOU ALL ,and they can not control everything.I yesterday posted a video about a guy being taken to the police in a stadium and no one moved a finger ( if they took him from the cops what were they going to do ,arrest the whole stadium ?),when the occupy movement was going on I think that while they were marching on a bridge the police came and arrested a hundred of them while the rest stood and watched ( what they should have done is started attacking police stations and government buildings across the city ). UNACCEPTABLE in both cases .Although this examples are maybe not directly connected to this issue they give the reasons why there is never and blow back .No since of unity at any level ,and you don't need large numbers to have them crap their pants at all.30-50K people could riot a city until the police beg on their knees for them to stop.


Yes the meme "You will take my guns from my cold dead hands" is nice for a poster but it predicts the future also.They will take your guns from your cold dead hands because you will eventually die going trough your whole life doing nothing,and your children will be so brainwashed that they will probably be even embarrassed from "crazy dad" when the cops come.

Athan
10-09-2013, 08:03 AM
good luck with that.

I say bullshit on that idea. It is time militia start getting involved. Americans are being strong armed by idiots and need personal security.


Using weapons is a bad idea unless you plan to start an armed rebellion .If you even just use guns as a threat that means the mountain is under your control and the government will come to take it back.

I disagree with this. No one has to use guns as a threat. Having a LOT of armed members exercising their militia rights and one or two legal advisers or lawyers being spokesmen for the group, FORCES law enforcement to deescalate the situation and act passive as they should. You just have one guy with a gun, and he is treated like a potential Adam Lanza.

You have 100+ people involved, and the cops start acting like suddenly it is like dealing with a group of lawyers and they suddenly settle down. You have 100+ people unarmed however and they just get paddy wagons. These people want to go home at the end of the shift. They are not going to do SHIT with a genuine quasi military force who is going to also rape them in the court system.

I know because this happened in my area. Long story short, the county police went nuts on a guy simply for ASKING permission in advance to take a picture in front of the police station lawfully carrying an unloaded firearm. They put him through the ringer and like a criminal. They even charged him with having a weapon when all he had was a knife that was legally less than 4 inches and legal to carry.

So he organized his open carry friends and our county citizens. We ALL opened carried in front of the police station the next weekend later. With the firepower and our numbers in plain view, not ONE cop bothered us. we even had women and children in the crowd and they used the PD bathroom. In fact we ALL took pictures in front of the station with our guns.

Do not dismiss the amount of guns in a peaceful assembly from your formula. You don't have to act intimidating. All you have to look is professional, a well groomed citizen, and pack some serious firepower with a large group. We had at least 80+ people. Cops are not going to do shit to 80+ people with a legal council spokesman.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 08:06 AM
Using weapons is a bad idea unless you plan to start an armed rebellion .If you even just use guns as a threat that means the mountain is under your control and the government will come to take it back.

The bold part is the correct way.THEY CAN NOT ARREST YOU ALL ,and they can not control everything.I yesterday posted a video about a guy being taken to the police in a stadium and no one moved a finger ( if they took him from the cops what were they going to do ,arrest the whole stadium ?),when the occupy movement was going on I think that while they were marching on a bridge the police came and arrested a hundred of them while the rest stood and watched ( what they should have done is started attacking police stations and government buildings across the city ). UNACCEPTABLE in both cases .Although this examples are maybe not directly connected to this issue they give the reasons why there is never and blow back .No since of unity at any level ,and you don't need large numbers to have them crap their pants at all.30-50K people could riot a city until the police beg on their knees for them to stop.


Yes the meme "You will take my guns from my cold dead hands" is nice for a poster but it predicts the future also.They will take your guns from your cold dead hands because you will eventually die going trough your whole life doing nothing,and your children will be so brainwashed that they will probably be even embarrassed from "crazy dad" when the cops come.

I think you answered your own questioning of my post, within your post. If it is to be "wait and see" forever, then we already know the answer. Or, we change the question.

Demigod
10-09-2013, 08:14 AM
I think you answered your own questioning of my post, within your post. If it is to be "wait and see" forever, then we already know the answer. Or, we change the question.

You do not have the mentality to act as a group,more precisely to mentality to act as an organized mob.It is that simple.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 08:51 AM
You do not have the mentality to act as a group,more precisely to mentality to act as an organized mob.It is that simple.

My skills within a group have already been proven, that is not the question. The question is the goal. I am very good at leading or supporting the achieving of goals. Every member of a group is important, but no member can be indispensable. Learning the skills, how to achieve the goal, is also something that is easily attained. But I have zero tolerance for personal politics.

tod evans
10-09-2013, 08:54 AM
My skills within a group have already been proven, that is not the question. The question is the goal. I am very good at leading or supporting the achieving of goals. Every member of a group is important, but no member can be indispensable.

I try and convince boards to cooperate.........Sometimes I actually win the argument.:o

People............................No way!

Elias Graves
10-09-2013, 08:56 AM
The best thing any of us can do is go plunk down a couple of $20 bills for some stew and cake.
Guns will only turn the public against us. If gunplay is to be involved, it needs to be unprovoked on the part of the goon squads.
Nothing gets public sympathy faster than a few martyrs.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 08:58 AM
The best thing any of us can do is go plunk down a couple of $20 bills for some stew and cake.
Guns will only turn the public against us. If gunplay is to be involved, it needs to be unprovoked on the part of the goon squads.
Nothing gets public sympathy faster than a few martyrs.

Oh, let me declare RIGHT NOW, that I am NOT advocating offense or preemptive violence AT ALL. Only, possibly, defense. I have no death wish, nor do I want to "start" any violence.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 09:02 AM
I try and convince boards to cooperate.........Sometimes I actually win the argument.:o

People............................No way!


I have been able to lead a group that already had a common goal to success. Of course, I'm talking about large (multi-million line) software projects with 6-10 developers working on it, not some activist projects. So that would be somewhat of a learning curve, for me.

nobody's_hero
10-09-2013, 09:05 AM
Local sheriff needs to put up barricades . . . to keep the feds out.

Demigod
10-09-2013, 09:05 AM
The best thing any of us can do is go plunk down a couple of $20 bills for some stew and cake.
Guns will only turn the public against us. If gunplay is to be involved, it needs to be unprovoked on the part of the goon squads.
Nothing gets public sympathy faster than a few martyrs.

Very bad idea.Don't use guns.A much better PR stunt is to provoke them on beating you and catch it on camera.It would have the same effect without dead people.And writing about martyrs on a public forum is a very bad idea.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 09:06 AM
Local sheriff needs to put up barricades . . . to keep the feds out.

That would be the very best of outcomes approaches, with local militia support. :)

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 09:09 AM
Very bad idea.Don't use guns.A much better PR stunt is to provoke them on beating you and catch it on camera.It would have the same effect without dead people.

I somewhat disagree. What affect has peppered and tear-gassed people had on the population so far?

Like I said, I have no death wish, but I'm not completely opposed to dying for the right cause. The Kent State incident stirred up a lot of people. I'm not sure what the reaction would be today, better or worse.

seapilot
10-09-2013, 09:23 AM
Time to start another Occupy movement?

Looks like he is getting a lot of support over on facepalm...

hxxps://www.facebook.com/CarrotTreeKitchensYorktown?ref=nf

Occam's Banana
10-09-2013, 09:40 AM
Good for him.

Although I expect a SWAT raid is forthcoming.

A 100-year old lady is in non-compliance. This cannot be tolerated ...

phill4paul
10-09-2013, 09:50 AM
A 100-year old lady is in non-compliance. This cannot be tolerated ...

Cop's have no problem dealing with centenarians.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/08/justice/arkansas-107-year-old-man-death/index.html

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 10:00 AM
Looks like he is getting a lot of support over on facepalm...

hxxps://www.facebook.com/CarrotTreeKitchensYorktown?ref=nf

Thanks, I gave them a hoosier shout out and "Liked" their page.

Anti Federalist
10-09-2013, 11:50 AM
The best thing any of us can do is go plunk down a couple of $20 bills for some stew and cake.
Guns will only turn the public against us. If gunplay is to be involved, it needs to be unprovoked on the part of the goon squads.
Nothing gets public sympathy faster than a few martyrs.

LOL - With this mob in AmeriKa these days?

They'd sit around, drink beer and chant USA, as the martyrs were exterminated.

http://www.destination360.com/europe/italy/images/s/italy-rome-colosseum.jpg

Anti Federalist
10-09-2013, 11:51 AM
A 100-year old lady is in non-compliance. This cannot be tolerated ...

She was a threat to Officer Safety.

Athan
10-09-2013, 12:17 PM
For the nay-sayers fearful of guns in a public discussion.
http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=932506#.UlWc3FCsjTo

Summery:
One guy went alone. Treated to the joys of a full blown police state.
So the dude brought out the gun owning public who had rifles and ammo, and we were treated as equals. Heck they even avoided harassing us.
Keep in mind, that the pictures don't even show the full number of people there. The media showed up early and took off before the full number became apparent.

bunklocoempire
10-09-2013, 01:18 PM
The National Park Service owns and operates the building.
On one hand you've got what appears to be a voluntary relationship with the feds gone kablooey (DOH! surprise! GAH! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!:eek:)... on the other hand you've got common sense....

Hard to suggest anyone become a martyr for the former, but I am perfectly okay with buying some food for the later. I'd swing by and feast.

ClydeCoulter
10-09-2013, 02:58 PM
The thing is, IF this is a government "Of, by and for the people", then the government is only caretaker of "Our" land. To "shut it down" is rebellion and treachery.

During this "shut down", I could agree that they may not be able to fund the upkeep and/or security. So, the guy that tried to mow the lawn at the memorial would be a "good citizen" in a sane world.

Warmon
10-09-2013, 04:05 PM
doesn't it seem like the guy thinks congress is directing the park rangers and not the chief exec?

The guy directing is John Jarvis - Director of the NPS who is an political appointee. His position is that NPS is a system and that all sites that are part of that system are closed. He's doing exactly what boss man is telling him to do thru the Sec of Inferior.