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enhanced_deficit
10-08-2013, 02:40 PM
There goes SWC Obama's 'will not negotiate' melodrama.

For a change Speaker is showing backbone.

Edited to add video:
What could be historic words at 3:15 mark.

"The long and short of it is, there is gonna be a negotiation here"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAf4j6cr6c&feature=player_detailpage#t=175


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAf4j6cr6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAf4j6cr6c

Zippyjuan
10-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Obama also said there would be negotiations- doen't mean either will listen or change their position. Politically, neither can say they won't negotiate. Then they are seen as the one who is obstructionist.

enhanced_deficit
10-08-2013, 03:05 PM
Obama also said there would be negotiations- doen't mean either will listen or change their position. Politically, neither can say they won't negotiate. Then they are seen as the one who is obstructionist.

He is known to blink, but has he blinked on debt ceiling issue already?

http://thisistwitchy.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/ap-negotiate.png (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ULG5LPUbwkrfzM&tbnid=kRF4RArxzHMu1M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2F2013%2F09%2F28%2Fsa lly-kohn-republicans-are-crazy-if-they-think-obamas-the-one-who-wont-negotiate%2F&ei=H3NUUqCGLOnl4AP95YH4Cw&bvm=bv.53537100,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGV8sZ4jZmIZ0BCJ8FbUxbIc-XeQA&ust=1381352591733837)

Obama rebuffs Boehner's pleas for fiscal negotiations - NBC Politics (http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871044-obama-rebuffs-boehners-pleas-for-fiscal-negotiations?lite)
nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_.../20871044-obama-rebuffs-boehners-pleas-for...
5 hours ago - "We're not going to negotiate under the threat of further harm to our economy and middle-class families," Obama said Monday at FEMA ...

Obama's Syria Blink: Who Clipped His Wings? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/09/01/obamas-syria-fiasco-who-clipped-his-wings/)
www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-syria-fiasco-who-clipped-his-wings/‎
Sep 1, 2013 - Barack Obama's climb-down on Syria is one of the most startling in recent American history. A hidden influence is that creditor nations fear for ...

Zippyjuan
10-08-2013, 03:09 PM
In his speach today, he said he would be willing to negotiate but won't give in on anything.


Obama takes his first question from reporters. He repeats that he is willing "to talk about anything." He suggest that he is open to negotiations even if just a short-term continuing resolution to fund the government is passed. "The only thing I will say is that we're not going to pay a ransom for America paying it's bill," Obama says.

2:26 p.m. The president repeats that he is willing to talk about any number of issues to strengthen the health care system, but only after clean budget is passed.

"I have shown myself willing to go more than halfway," Obama said, but he added, "We can't make extortion a routine part of our democracy," Obama said.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/10/08/obama-news-conference-government-shutdown/2944777/

fearthereaperx
10-08-2013, 03:17 PM
Obama also said there would be negotiations- doen't mean either will listen or change their position. Politically, neither can say they won't negotiate. Then they are seen as the one who is obstructionist.

Correct, although the tone at the white house has softened from last week. Previously, Obama admin were extremely rigid in not negotiating with Republicans.

Zippyjuan
10-08-2013, 03:22 PM
Both are still posturing at this point- trying to portray themselves as the "reasonable side" and the other as the "obstructionists".

JK/SEA
10-08-2013, 03:32 PM
hmmm...when's the negotiation start for the type of table they use...round or square or just pillows on the floor...?

SilentBull
10-08-2013, 03:32 PM
Both are still posturing at this point- trying to portray themselves as the "reasonable side" and the other as the "obstructionists".

Unfortunately, I think the Dems are winning. It's easy to win when you have 95% of the media helping you out.

JCDenton0451
10-08-2013, 03:34 PM
I can't imagine Obama having actual negotiations about the repealing/dismantling parts of Obamacare. This is different and much more personal for him than Syria or Iranian nuclear program. Don't you understand?

Conservatives who think that they can still stop, or even extract some kind of minor concessions on Obamacare are simply detached from reality or logic.

brandon
10-08-2013, 03:37 PM
The democrats are definitely winning and I'm even close to siding with them on this issue. I wish the GOP picked their fight more carefully. I can't see any way they come out ahead, and I don't see any motivation for Obama to concede anything.

tangent4ronpaul
10-08-2013, 03:50 PM
He is known to blink, but has he blinked on debt ceiling issue already?

http://thisistwitchy.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/ap-negotiate.png (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ULG5LPUbwkrfzM&tbnid=kRF4RArxzHMu1M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitchy.com%2F2013%2F09%2F28%2Fsa lly-kohn-republicans-are-crazy-if-they-think-obamas-the-one-who-wont-negotiate%2F&ei=H3NUUqCGLOnl4AP95YH4Cw&bvm=bv.53537100,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNGV8sZ4jZmIZ0BCJ8FbUxbIc-XeQA&ust=1381352591733837)

Obama rebuffs Boehner's pleas for fiscal negotiations - NBC Politics (http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/08/20871044-obama-rebuffs-boehners-pleas-for-fiscal-negotiations?lite)
nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_.../20871044-obama-rebuffs-boehners-pleas-for...
5 hours ago - "We're not going to negotiate under the threat of further harm to our economy and middle-class families," Obama said Monday at FEMA ...

Obama's Syria Blink: Who Clipped His Wings? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/09/01/obamas-syria-fiasco-who-clipped-his-wings/)
www.forbes.com/sites/.../obamas-syria-fiasco-who-clipped-his-wings/‎
Sep 1, 2013 - Barack Obama's climb-down on Syria is one of the most startling in recent American history. A hidden influence is that creditor nations fear for ...

Obama Says He Will Negotiate Once G.O.P. Ends ‘Threats’
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/us/politics/obama-calls-boehner-as-gop-meeting-yields-no-offers.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — President Obama on Tuesday intensified his pressure on Republicans with a hastily scheduled news conference, calling on them to both fund and reopen the government and to raise the nation’s borrowing limit as the federal shutdown entered a second week.

“Let’s lift these threats from our families and our businesses, and let’s get down to work,” Mr. Obama said in the White House briefing room before taking questions from reporters.

Mr. Obama said that he was holding firm that he could not negotiate concessions to the Republican-led House for it to perform Congress’s constitutional responsibilities.

“I am happy to talk with him and other Republicans about anything,” Mr. Obama said of Speaker John A. Boehner, “not just issues I think are important but also issues that they think are important. But I also told him that having such a conversation, talks, negotiations shouldn’t require hanging the threats of a government shutdown or economic chaos over the heads of the American people.

“Think about it this way,” he added. “The American people do not get to demand a ransom for doing their jobs.”

President Obama phoned Mr. Boehner earlier on Tuesday morning to urge him to allow a House vote on a budget bill without conditions, as Mr. Boehner called on the president to come to the negotiating table to resolve a spending standoff that has shuttered the government for eight days.

“I had a phone call with the president of the United states this morning,” Mr. Boehner said at a news conference at the Capitol, after Mr. Obama’s news conference. “I will say it was a pleasant conversation, although I have to say I was disappointed that the president refuses to negotiate.”

He added: “When it comes to the debt limit, I agree with the president: we should pay our bills. I didn’t come here to shut down the government. I certainly didn’t come here to default on our debt.”

The competing pushes by the president and Mr. Boehner came after a closed-door meeting of House Republicans produced no new offers to resolve the spending stalemate and no plan for what to do about the fact that the federal government is set to hit its borrowing limit next week.

The White House also announced that the president would take questions from the news media Tuesday afternoon.

According to the White House, the president again told Mr. Boehner that he was willing to negotiate, but only after the “threat of government shutdown and default have been removed.” The White House said that areas the president would be willing to discuss included “how to strengthen the Affordable Care Act and continue to reduce the nation’s deficit.”

The speaker’s office said the call broke no new ground. “The president called the speaker again today to reiterate that he won’t negotiate on a government funding bill or debt limit increase,” said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Mr. Boehner.

Even as Mr. Boehner’s office put out word of the call and characterized Mr. Obama’s message, Mr. Buck declined to say how the speaker had responded to the president.

More than a week into the shutdown and nine days from a possible debt default, House Republicans emerged from their meeting with a united demand: they will make no move to resolve either crisis until Mr. Obama extends an olive branch.

Republicans on Tuesday put forth their latest effort to pressure Democrats to come to the table, calling for a bipartisan, bicameral committee to convene to address the impasse over the shutdown and the debt ceiling.

Democrats, however, immediately dismissed the idea as another ploy by Republicans to demand unreasonable concessions in exchange for reopening the government and raising the debt limit, ensuring that it will go nowhere in the Senate.

“The president’s position that we’re not going to sit down and talk to you until you surrender is just not sustainable,” Mr. Boehner said.

Representative Kevin McCarthy of California, the No. 3 House Republican, said: “Mr. President, give a call. We’re ready to answer.”

If that is meant to raise the political pressure on Democrats, they showed little sign of backing down on their position that to compromise over the basic functions of financing the government and preventing a default would only encourage more crises and more hostage-taking.

Complicating matters is a Republican contention that the Oct. 17 deadline for a debt ceiling increase is fluid at best, and possibly mythical. Representative John Fleming, Republican of Louisiana, said lawmakers “have plenty of time” to work out a broad deal to reduce the deficit and overhaul entitlement programs before the statutory borrowing limit must be raised.

“We’re already living hand-to-mouth, and have for the last three years,” he said. “Why do we want to make the problem even worse?”

Some Republicans continue to say the Treasury is receiving ample tax revenues every day to pay off creditors and avoid a default. Additional government services might close and contracts might be suspended as the administration prioritizes debt servicing, they say, but an actual crisis is far off.

“It’s like everything else here,” said Representative Trent Franks, Republican of Arizona. “People on both sides of every argument seem to employ hyperbole when they could just state the truth and it would still be of significant consequence.”

Most economists say a default would be cataclysmic. The government shutdown has already rattled world stock markets, sending investors fleeing to the safe harbor of American Treasury bonds. But that safe harbor is predicated on the fact that for all of American history, the full faith and credit of the government has not been brought into question.

A default could shatter that confidence, send interest rates skyrocketing as investors in Treasury notes demand a premium for their purchases, and crater a fragile economic recovery.

But after assuring lawmakers privately that such a crisis would never happen, Mr. Boehner is now drawing a harder line. In the meeting Tuesday, he told lawmakers that it would be “irresponsible” to allow the government to borrow more before locking in changes to the health care law and entitlements like Medicare and Social Security that would bring down spending over the long term.

Representative Reid Ribble, Republican of Wisconsin, sent a letter Tuesday to Mr. Boehner with 51 House Republicans demanding that any long-term debt ceiling increase address the politically fraught issue of Social Security spending.

“Unless we have major reforms to the way our government spends, I’m not going to sign some blank check for irresponsible policy,” said Representative Matt Salmon, Republican of Arizona, expressing a sentiment that most House Republicans seem to share.

-t

ZENemy
10-08-2013, 04:07 PM
LOL, you guys argue about "what he said" like they are telling the truth or that their words actually have weight.

Occam's Banana
10-08-2013, 04:10 PM
Speaker Boehner's ultimatum to Obama: "There will be negotiations."

I wonder ... is that a negotiable ultimatum? :confused::eek:

Zippyjuan
10-08-2013, 04:18 PM
I have noticed that Republicans have stopped mentioning Obamacare as one of their demands for a budget deal.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are _using_the_shutdown_as.html


Three days into the federal shutdown, Republicans are beginning to admit that, contrary to everything they told us, they didn’t really close the government to stop Obamacare. They did it, and will keep doing it, to gain leverage in the coming fight over the debt ceiling. The government will stay shut for the next two weeks so that the GOP can accumulate power.

This isn’t Democratic spin. It’s what Republicans themselves are telling reporters, particularly the conservative media. Last night in the Washington Examiner, David Drucker reported:


House GOP leaders and most of their rank and file never supported conservatives' efforts to use the budget bill and the threat of a government shutdown to defund Obamacare … But having gone as far as they have, House Republicans now say they won't back down. And they expect to score political points in the process.


The real target, according to Drucker’s sources, is the deadline for raising the debt ceiling, which is two weeks away:



[House] Republicans said Wednesday that the spending impasse that shut down the government early Tuesday is less about conservatives' desire to derail Obamacare than it is about strengthening their hand in the debt-ceiling talks. … “We’re not going to be disrespected,” conservative Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind., added. “We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is.”


Drucker’s account matches what Republicans are telling other outlets. In the Washington Post, Paul Kane reports that House Speaker John Boehner never wanted to use the shutdown threat to stop Obamacare. Nevertheless, Boehner joined this assault in order to head off a “rebellion” in his caucus. As a result, the speaker has:



kept sending the Senate bills that would completely defund or delay the health-care law, knowing it would lead to a shutdown. … Now that Boehner has survived several days of the shutdown, his friends say there is no point in moving a clean funding resolution. They said the shutdown is leverage in talks with Obama and the Democrats about lifting the debt ceiling.


On Wednesday, according to Robert Costa of the National Review, “Boehner called groups of members to his Capitol office all day, taking their temperature on the shutdown and the debt limit. It became clear, members say, that Boehner’s chief goal is conference unity as the debt limit nears.” In the Hill, Molly Hooper found the GOP abandoning its original message:



Republicans, including those same conservatives, attempted to shift the conversation away from defunding ObamaCare to larger items such as entitlement spending and tax reform. … Stutzman added that those same conservatives essentially stopped talking as much about ObamaCare and have moved on to broader economic matters.


Second, contrary to what he told us, it’s all about Republicans in Congress. By their own paraphrased admissions, it’s “about strengthening their hand in the debt-ceiling talks.” It’s “leverage” in the debt ceiling fight. They knew that the deadline for that fight was Oct. 17. Yet they choked off government funding on Tuesday, under the pretense of stopping Obamacare. Today is Oct. 3. Republicans are prepared to keep the government closed for at least two more weeks, just to gain the upper hand in a future confrontation.

69360
10-08-2013, 04:22 PM
The democrats are definitely winning and I'm even close to siding with them on this issue. I wish the GOP picked their fight more carefully. I can't see any way they come out ahead, and I don't see any motivation for Obama to concede anything.

How can the GOP lose unless they cave in?

They already have taken the blame, so that's off the table. They have the democrats by the balls now. Give concessions or stay shutdown and get a default.

tangent4ronpaul
10-08-2013, 04:26 PM
I have noticed that Republicans have stopped mentioning Obamacare as one of their demands for a budget deal.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/10/shutdown_leverage_forget_obamacare_republicans_are _using_the_shutdown_as.html

That is NOT good!!!!

-t

69360
10-08-2013, 04:30 PM
That is NOT good!!!!

-t

Meh, it might work. With no debt limit increase, good luck funding Obamacare.

leverguy
10-08-2013, 06:16 PM
"I have shown myself willing to go more than halfway," Obama said, but he added, "We can't make extortion a routine part of our democracy," Obama said.

IOW, give me what I want or I'll call you names and slap labels on you.

moostraks
10-08-2013, 06:40 PM
"I have shown myself willing to go more than halfway," Obama said, but he added, "We can't make extortion a routine part of our democracy," Obama said.

IOW, give me what I want or I'll call you names and slap labels on you.

I am still wondering what the president has shown himself to go more than halfway on, anyone here know?

CPUd
10-08-2013, 06:43 PM
http://i.imgur.com/bIS3HXd.gif

enhanced_deficit
10-08-2013, 09:12 PM
Meh, it might work. With no debt limit increase, good luck funding Obamacare.

This.





http://i.imgur.com/bIS3HXd.gif

This shows that with courage all things are possible.. and mouse can become the cat.

enhanced_deficit
10-09-2013, 07:57 AM
I can't imagine Obama having actual negotiations about the repealing/dismantling parts of Obamacare. This is different and much more personal for him than Syria or Iranian nuclear program. Don't you understand?

Conservatives who think that they can still stop, or even extract some kind of minor concessions on Obamacare are simply detached from reality or logic.

Looks like he will have to negotiate about Obamacare spending also as it is part of debt ceiling issue.