Welfare or Warfare? Government Shutdown: 9 Million Moms And Babies At Risk As WIC Program Halt

[Lucille]

The government giveth, and the government taketh away. There's always plenty of money for the MIC though.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/456804/


I am no fan of the Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) welfare program (which, by the way, is fully supported by Republicans), but I find it appalling that the government has shut down the WIC program while it retains the women, infants, and children killing program known as the war in Afghanistan.

[Lucille]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/truth-is-their-worst-enemy/


President Obama has been on network television this morning telling his assorted ignoramuses that the reason government parks and other facilities are shut down is due to the failure of Republicans to do what he wants them to do. Were he an honest man – a quality that would have denied him the presidency – he could have spoken the truth: “we have shut down the parks, national monuments, and other government operations that you people actually want, in order to punish you for electing representatives who oppose me.” ... Boobus must be kept subservient and obedient and, short of recalling to service the soldiers responsible for the My Lai massacre, the citizenry will not be allowed to enjoy what they have paid for. Obama tells us that “essential government services” will not be cut during the make-believe shutdown. Were he more candid, he would have informed the boobeoisie that “essential government services” are those instrumentalities of state violence (i.e., police, military, prisons, etc.) whose maintenance “serves and protects” those in power.

[JK/SEA]

We need war...

its for the children..

[jkr]

THIS is their idea of a siege?!?!?

man are they in for a surprise!

[better-dead-than-fed]

I find it appalling that the government has shut down the WIC programhttp://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/456804/

I would find the continuation of the WIC program appalling; so it's going to be appalling either way, and the question is whether appalling reductions of government are better than appalling expansions of government. I think reductions are better.

Until women convicted of crimes for trying to feed their infants amount to 50% of the prison population, we shouldn't even humor the notion of giving them discriminatory government assistance.

[amy31416]

Why is there WIC when there's SNAP?

[oyarde]

Why is there WIC when there's SNAP?

There should be zero Federal programs.These are the role of private charites , communities and at worst , States.

[heavenlyboy34]

Why is there WIC when there's SNAP?
JP Morgan, et al.

[oyarde]

Why is there WIC when there's SNAP?

Good point , why are there always multiple agencies, programs doing the same things on the tax dime ?The Fed govt is the model for ineffeciency.

[amy31416]

Good point , why are there always multiple agencies, programs doing the same things on the tax dime ?The Fed govt is the model for ineffeciency.

I just don't understand it. Food stamps buy milk and stuff that the babies need--are there people who don't qualify for SNAP that do qualify for WIC or vice-versa?

[tod evans]

I just don't understand it. Food stamps buy milk and stuff that the babies need--are there people who don't qualify for SNAP that do qualify for WIC or vice-versa?

The whole idea is to "employ" as many as possible administering these accounts...

[Deborah K]

I just called the 800# for WIC in Cali, they're still open. I asked if they were going to be affected by the shut-down and they said "not at this time, but we're only making apts. for a month since we don't know if we'll be affected".

It's all bullshit. Only 15% of the gov't is shut down and it's all non-essential programs.

[amy31416]

I just called the 800# for WIC in Cali, they're still open. I asked if they were going to be affected by the shut-down and they said "not at this time, but we're only making apts. for a month since we don't know if we'll be affected".

It's all bullshit. Only 15% of the gov't is shut down and it's all non-essential programs.

Yep.

Wish you would have asked them why they exist when SNAP is already there for poor people. :p

[catfeathers]

From what I found, at least for Ky you can get WIC if you have young children or are pregnant and your income is less than 185% of poverty level. There is also a nutritional risk requirement, I didn't qualify because of that when I was pregnant with my oldest. I believe foster children usually qualify no matter what the foster parent's income is.

[Lucille]

I just called the 800# for WIC in Cali, they're still open. I asked if they were going to be affected by the shut-down and they said "not at this time, but we're only making apts. for a month since we don't know if we'll be affected".

It's all bullshit. Only 15% of the gov't is shut down and it's all non-essential programs.

TY, D! The article did say:


On Tuesday, the government stopped funding the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, known as WIC.
[...]
The USDA estimates that most states will be able to continue WIC operations as usual for “a week or so” before running out of money. The department’s Food and Nutrition Service has a contingency fund of only $125 million available for this $7 billion annual appropriation.
[...]
On Tuesday evening directors of WIC offices around the country stressed that they’re still up and running.

[Antischism]

Welfare programs should be phased out slowly when the time comes, and even then, there are much more important, hurtful things to shut down before we even think of pulling the rug from under people in our country who have been trained by government to depend on them. I have much more sympathy for people on welfare programs than I do for the hateful motherfuckers who put them there in the first place and continue to propagate hostility and kill foreigners in the name of world policing.

[ClydeCoulter]

Welfare programs should be phased out slowly when the time comes, and even then, there are much more important, hurtful things to shut down before we even think of pulling the rug from under people in our country who have been trained by government to depend on them. I have much more sympathy for people on welfare programs than I do for the hateful motherfuckers who put them there in the first place and continue to propagate hostility and kill foreigners in the name of world policing.

^^^ THIS ^^^

Ron Paul favors a sensible shutdown of programs that people have been forced to depend on, through inflation and corrupt meddling of the markets.

Bring home the troops, shut down overseas bases, defund the MIC and O'care, and shut down the federal reserve.

Then, let's work the rest of it out.

[HOLLYWOOD]

It is getting very bad and the government is lying to you... talking with the local cashiers at the grocery store... more and more people are using EBT/FOOD STAMPS/WIC welfare cards to buy food.

The most they have ever seen... across all classes, because people they thought were wealthy or financially secure are now using them.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Welfare programs should be phased out slowly when the time comes,

That time has come.


and even then, there are much more important, hurtful things to shut down before we even think of pulling the rug from under people in our country who have been trained by government to depend on them.

Why put off "training" people not to depend on the government?

[Origanalist]

That time has come.



Why put off "training" people not to depend on the government?

+ rep

[heavenlyboy34]

Good point , why are there always multiple agencies, programs doing the same things on the tax dime ?The Fed govt is the model for ineffeciency.
Program and other spending redundancies are hallmarks of runaway bureaucracy. Typical of any parasitic organization like government.

[oyarde]

Wic needs shut down forever.If any young lady w/ a baby within 6 sq miles of me needs a gallon of milk , I will swing by Aldi and get it for $1.99 out of my pocket.I do not need the evil , retarded Fed govt taking it out of my check.

[Coolidge/Dawes '24]

I wish we wouldn't dabble too much in meaningless philosophic discourse about how we should "prioritize" budget cuts. There are many diplomatic posts and bases in relatively stable locales that, unlike F-22s and stealth bombers, don't kill a single living specimen, save a few creepy, crawly pests that needed to be exterminated, and can be put on the same moral axis as WIC and other seemingly benign and "harmless" programs. But although the welfare state seems to preclude the use of state-enforced intimidation and violence, it doesn't.

Crown jewels like WIC and SNAP are underwritten by taxes, which, if one does not submit to, are followed by terrifying phone calls and letters, and in some cases, means you'll be kidnapped during the darkness of twilight by gangs of jack-booted thugs and thrown inside a concrete dungeon without being able to dial up an attorney or informing loved ones of your whereabouts. And if you do manage to get a trial, oftentimes the preponderance of evidence is on you to prove that you don't owe any taxes. You're being held for ransom. And that is just some of the mortifying, inhumane, behind-the-scenes stuff that happens with pretty much every layer of the administrative state.

Not only that, but welfare programs divert funds from more productive and desirable endeavors. Private charities have less administrative overhead and are actually accountable to donors because, unlike the government, they don't have a guaranteed revenue stream. Ethics violations, money-laundering, mismanagement, nepotism - all of these things are punished far more often in the private sphere than in the offices and subdivisions of the therapeutic, managerial centers of government "compassion" and "kindliness." And when your wages are being garnished and your bank accounts pilfered - all to bankroll WIC, SNAP, public housing programs, and the rest of it - volunteering at a soup kitchen or food pantry is a much harder sell, since the poor are already supposedly being "taken care of." So we have money being dished out to undeserving recipients - billionaires in wheelchairs, the willingly idle, agricultural conglomerates - at the expense of the truly deserving by agencies known for their bumbling ineptness, rather than being administered through more efficient and voluntary avenues.

And businesses, might I add, have less seed capital to expand their payrolls, build new branches and subdivisions, and invest in machinery and computers that streamline the production process and make labor more efficient. That means less "Open for Hire" signs. That means a mark-up of price tags in the frozen food aisle and the cereal section of your local supermarket. That means less bonuses, less employment opportunities - less advances in medicine, transportation, and energy. That raggedy fellow with the chinks in every tooth has less chance of surviving if he gets cancer. That recently widowed mother with five mouths to feed has less money set aside for her grocery bills, electricity, and rent.

I guess you could say that welfare can malnourish, impoverish, and kill in more discreet ways than incinerating whole cities alive and reducing them to charcoal, ember, and ash. I didn't even mention the explosion in out-of-wedlock births that the welfare state has inevitably spawned, creating much more social instability and violence than you can bat an eyelash at. And let us not pretend that some lives are more valuable than others. Remember: men are the predominant victims in war. The whole "women and children" epithet needs to be completely discarded.

[better-dead-than-fed]

If every man and woman had a bunch of babies and they all survived, the population would grow without limit, til people packed the earth's surface shoulder to shoulder. That never was nature's plan, and there is no natural right to have a lot of babies and have an easy time providing for them. Using government to promote this is futile, as it encourages people to breed irresponsibly, and since nature has the last word when it comes to population growth; plus all the direct violations of natural rights involved in implementing welfare, as described well in the previous post.

[MRK]

I guess the maternity industry's lobby isn't as big as the military industrial complex's lobby.

This is what happens when you use majority rule to whore out a democracy. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

[puppetmaster]

Yep.

Wish you would have asked them why they exist when SNAP is already there for poor people. :p
As much as I disagree with these types of programs they do need to phased out not just ended abruptly. The transitional period will be very important to the long term health of liberty.

[MRK]

As much as I disagree with these types of programs they do need to phased out not just ended abruptly. The transitional period will be very important to the long term health of liberty.

Hair of the dog cure?

Cold turkey more effective:


"These results support the conclusion that cold turkey cessation remains the most effective means of quitting smoking," wrote Dr. Michael Siegel, a physician and professor at Boston University School of Public Health, in his online blog entitled, The Rest of the Story" "Cessation attempts that involve pharmacotherapy are substantially less likely to be successful than quit attempts that do not involve the use of pharmacotherapy.”

Dr. Siegel's cold turkey superiority claim is supported by nearly every real-world quitting method survey ever published. It's evidence that GSK and its consultants have worked hard over the years to discredit and suppress. Cold turkey's most notable recent victories include a 2006 unpublished U.S. National Cancer Institute Survey of 8,200 quitters (a study featured in the Wall Street Journal at Page A1 on February 8, 2007) and a 2006 Australian survey which not only found cold turkey twice as effective as pharmacology among patients of 1,000 family practice physicians but that cold turkey accounted for a whopping 88% of all long-term successful quitters. "

[Snew]

Poor get poorer, fat cats get fatter.

[HOLLYWOOD]

I just called the 800# for WIC in Cali, they're still open. I asked if they were going to be affected by the shut-down and they said "not at this time, but we're only making apts. for a month since we don't know if we'll be affected".

It's all bullshit. Only 15% of the gov't is shut down and it's all non-essential programs.And there's the facts... now to watch who in media is lying and partisan exploitation.

[amy31416]

As much as I disagree with these types of programs they do need to phased out not just ended abruptly. The transitional period will be very important to the long term health of liberty.

Generally I'd agree--but there's nothing in the WIC program that you can't get on SNAP--I just don't understand why it exists.

Can a person be on WIC and SNAP at the same time?

[ClydeCoulter]

Generally I'd agree--but there's nothing in the WIC program that you can't get on SNAP--I just don't understand why it exists.

Can a person be on WIC and SNAP at the same time?

WIC has been around for a long, long time. I had not heard of SNAP before.

edit: Short article on them: http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/05/snap-wic-ebt-whats-the-difference/index.html

[angelatc]

Generally I'd agree--but there's nothing in the WIC program that you can't get on SNAP--I just don't understand why it exists.

Can a person be on WIC and SNAP at the same time?

WIC now serves 53% of all infants born in the US, according to Wikipedia. Which means that according to the government, 53% of us can't feed ourselves properly, because having a nutrition risk assessment is part of the application process.

I'm not an expert, but one thing that sticks out is that you can't put an unborn child on SNAP.

And WIC only allows you to buy certain pre-approved foods, like milk,peanut butter, juice, cheese. No Ritz Bits.

[ClydeCoulter]

WIC now serves 53% of all infants born in the US, according to Wikipedia. Which means that according to the government, 53% of us can't feed ourselves properly, because having a nutrition risk assessment is part of the application process.

I'm not an expert, but one thing that sticks out is that you can't put an unborn child on SNAP.

And WIC only allows you to buy certain pre-approved foods, like milk,peanut butter, juice, cheese. No Ritz Bits.

What? What kind of cruel...$#!+ is that!

[angelatc]

What? What kind of cruel...$#!+ is that!

I know! They have peanut butter and cheese flavors, too. Its big Farma, controlling the market.

[amy31416]

WIC now serves 53% of all infants born in the US, according to Wikipedia. Which means that according to the government, 53% of us can't feed ourselves properly, because having a nutrition risk assessment is part of the application process.

I'm not an expert, but one thing that sticks out is that you can't put an unborn child on SNAP.

And WIC only allows you to buy certain pre-approved foods, like milk,peanut butter, juice, cheese. No Ritz Bits.

So WIC is a lot more restricted than SNAP and seems to be a bit more responsible. I was looking around the internet though, and it seems you can be on both programs at the same time.

[tod evans]

Figure for every 5-10 "people" on these programs there's at least 1 government "employee" drawing a check to monitor for compliance...

[heavenlyboy34]

If every man and woman had a bunch of babies and they all survived, the population would grow without limit, til people packed the earth's surface shoulder to shoulder. That never was nature's plan, and there is no natural right to have a lot of babies and have an easy time providing for them. Using government to promote this is futile, as it encourages people to breed irresponsibly, and since nature has the last word when it comes to population growth; plus all the direct violations of natural rights involved in implementing welfare, as described well in the previous post.
Unwise, yes. But no natural right to pop out babies? I'd like to see your reasoning for that conclusion. (formal or informal analysis accepted)

[shane77m]

My wife worked with people on WIC during her internship. She said people asking her stuff like if Cheetos is in the dairy group was quite common.

[better-dead-than-fed]

there is no natural right to have a lot of babies and have an easy time providing for them.

Unwise, yes. But no natural right to pop out babies? I'd like to see your reasoning for that conclusion. (formal or informal analysis accepted)

What I mean is, there is no natural right to have an easy time providing for a lot of babies. (And in fact, nature itself opposes it. The harder society works to increase its population, the harder nature works the opposite.) Just like, there's no natural right not to be struck by lightning, and there's no natural right not to starve or die of disease. Nature doesn't hand out so many rights that if everyone exercised them, the population would grow without limit.

[Zippyjuan]

Why is there WIC when there's SNAP?

SNAP vs WIC:
http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/05/snap-wic-ebt-whats-the-difference/index.html

SNAP/Food stamps: Food stamps were renamed the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program or SNAP in 2008, the goal of the program is to help recipients maintain healthy diets by making relatively expensive items like fresh fruits and vegetables accessible to those with low incomes. Applying for SNAP in some states requires pay stubs, housing information, utility bills, child support orders and bills for child or elder care. SNAP is administered by the Food and Nutrition Service (FNS) of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. These benefits are for food; They do not cover items like pet food or toiletries. A list of guidelines from the USDA on what can be purchased is below.

WIC: The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children helps prevent or decrease premature births by supplementing the diets of pregnant women. It is also available to mothers of infants and children up to age five. WIC pays for essential items like milk, eggs and baby formula. WIC benefits are often distributed as specially-designed checks and may be used for a limited list of foods. That’s why, in some cases, families receive both WIC and help from other programs, like SNAP. WIC recipients are required to learn about pre-natal nutrition and breastfeeding.