Everyone invited to Des Moines [Archive] - Ron Paul Forums / Liberty Forest

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 07:34 AM

Oh geez! We need someone from the campaign to come on here and verify. This is getting way past ridiculous.

The campaign needs to keep an arms length from certain activities (FEC rules & other considerations).

I received an email from Joe Seehusen, Iowa Campaign Manager, that EVERYONE is invited!!! :)

mdh

06-25-2007, 07:35 AM

I think it's safe to assume based on the official announcement that everyone is indeed invited, and moreso, that they are hoping to have a large showing. It's very likely that Failor's croneys, etc, are out there trying to spread falsehoods and prevent our event from being a success.

PatriotOne

06-25-2007, 07:37 AM

From the Campaign: EVERYONE IS INVITED TO Des Moines. Do NOT believe anything in Facebook or any other website that implies anything to the contrary.

I hope this whole issue was just misplaced good intentions, but unfortunately the truth is that there will always be people pretending to support Ron Paul trying to undermine the campaign and unsubstantiated rumors should always be seen as such.

I suspect Ron Paul is a particular target of these people because of his stance on so many issues. There are going to be paid disinfo agents, as well as just sneaky supporter's of other candidates. The only way to combat this is WAIT FOR OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS :)

mdh

06-25-2007, 07:39 AM

The campaign needs to keep an arms length from certain activities (FEC rules & other considerations).

Totally right.

Let's take one simple example - let's say that they become more involved in this forum. then, let's say we find out Josh is in the KKK and all about racism and stuff (I know you're not Josh, sorry - just an example buddy :p) and decides that this is going to be a Ron Paul forum that espouses the KKK and stuff - now, the campaign folks have no way to stop that, and they've endorsed the forum. Doh. Megalose.
But that's just one point with regards to how the official campaign has to be run at arms length from many of our "supporter-owner-and-operated" operations. They have no way to know who among us are good guys or bad guys, better to let us take care of our own community and support them so that they can do critical stuff like appearances and mass-marketing in the home stretch.
Beyond that, FEC regulations are indeed quite restrictive.

Scribbler de Stebbing

06-25-2007, 07:46 AM

Spontaneous grassroots activity is more populist and desirable anyways. This rally sprang up from nowhere. Some people decided they were going to crash the forum. And it grew from there. That Ron Paul is now going to speak in an adjacent room is totally unrelated. Maybe not totally.

On grassroots organized activities, don't wait for an official announcement. We make the rules there.

For official campaign stuff, such as RP's speech, sure, read the announcement.

(I still say we should let the forum attendees get in the room and help themselves to the food before we try. Personally, I'm not going to have the campaign waste its precious money on me.)

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 07:54 AM

Well, someone better tell those Facebook folks, because they all think the campaign has told them not to go to Iowa.

mdh

06-25-2007, 08:04 AM

Well, someone better tell those Facebook folks, because they all think the campaign has told them not to go to Iowa.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Has anyone emailed Justine?

princessredtights

06-25-2007, 08:06 AM

http://eventful.com/events/E0-001-005011869-5

Here's the eventful link to the RALLY ...

angelatc

06-25-2007, 08:07 AM

The campaign needs to keep an arms length from certain activities (FEC rules & other considerations).

The campaign has a forum here specifically for their announcements.

mdh

06-25-2007, 08:07 AM

http://eventful.com/events/E0-001-005011869-5

Here's the eventful link to the RALLY ...

That's the link to the inside event with Dr. Paul.
The event for the outside event is at http://eventful.com/events/E0-001-004986982-7

JoshLowry

06-25-2007, 08:19 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Has anyone emailed Justine?

Yes, I am waiting to hear back from her.

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 08:22 AM

Here is the Facebook URL that Megan gave us last night when it was claimed that we were told NOT to attend:

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2229718737&topic=5091&start=0

:mad:

mdh

06-25-2007, 08:26 AM

So who is this Trevor Cook idiot, and why is he proclaiming to speak for the campaign headquarters folks?

Scribbler de Stebbing

06-25-2007, 08:33 AM

Who knows. It would be good to get the campaign thoughts on this, but they may be unwilling to publicly publish that "well, gee, we really want to see the Iowa forum attendees get in the room and enjoy the food for which we're shelling out $10 a head." So you might not get that out of them on letterhead and signed by someone on the official payroll.

I will say again -- and obviously you can ignore or even flame me -- that I wish y'all would see the importance of letting the forum attendees get taken care of first. We're going to be having our own rally outside, and word is that we're going to get in to see Dr Paul AFTER the first speech for the forum people.

What is wrong with that?

BLS

06-25-2007, 08:35 AM

I suggested we centralize and organize.

How many people won't go because of some rumor?

That rumor could have been disspelled had everybody used one site for all their organization needs.

Just sayin.

JoshLowry

06-25-2007, 08:35 AM

I wish y'all would see the importance of letting the forum attendees get taken care of first.

I think the majority of us are on par with this.

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 08:38 AM

(I still say we should let the forum attendees get in the room and help themselves to the food before we try. Personally, I'm not going to have the campaign waste its precious money on me.)

I agree. The forum that will be held inside is not for US. It is for the potential IOWAN voters. If we crowd them out, we will have defeated the whole purpose of this thing.

Our job, it seems to me, is to be in a support role.

Noodles

06-25-2007, 08:40 AM

Another idea:

After arriving in Iowa, when you're doing the door-to-door, sitting in restaurants, etc., INVITE Iowans to the Ron Paul speech. Do not mention the "official" forum, just the Ron Paul gig. Also, can't we all volunteer to up the food budget so that the 500 number could be elevated to 5000 if need be? No reason to let a lack of Coca-Cola and hot dogs, or whatever, slow us down.

Don't flame me about the free lunch thing, either. :D I'm probably not even going to be able to make it to Iowa. But I will send $50 to help with more food. Let's make this event huge. We need to hurdle all the limitations we find.

Just my opinion.

BuddyRey

06-25-2007, 08:40 AM

Ouch! Des Moines is a 17 hour drive from my house (and Mapquest usually gives a very conservative drive time estimate). I'll be with you guys in spirit!

Shink

06-25-2007, 08:41 AM

I think that should be handled by letting Iowans (like myself) in FIRST, but not ONLY Iowans, unless it's swamped before out-of-staters even think about entering.

I wish any of my friends gave a damn about politics, because I'd have more people to drag up.

dspectre

06-25-2007, 08:43 AM

I'm surprised people are so doubtful of what Trevor said...but I think it is important that we get confirmation.

Hmm think about it, the campaign may not want out of "staters" because of the bad press something like that can get plus(Like the Dean Summer love fest)....

Let's see if we assume numbers 5,000 people come to the event, and then they spend around $150 for gas, food, and expenses....

That would be ~$750,000 to the campaign, which would almost be another million to report for Q2....

I really could see the logic in the campaign suggesting to donate instead of travel to show up for the event...

Shink

06-25-2007, 08:50 AM

Yes, this is literally coming straight from the Ron Paul Campaign Headquarters. The Michigan Campaign director, whom I met with just earlier today, had discussions with the Iowa director, and Lew Moore, at different times over the past week. They officially declared that they do not want out-of-state Paul supporters to come to the Tax-Payers' forum and the following Paul promo rally.

All the money that you might be wasting on gas could be better spent if it were donated to the campaign directly. I know this is counter-intuitive, saying this to groups of libertarians... but this is the hard truth. The more money that they can get, the better.
Apparently, the McCain camp isn't doing as well financially as they had hoped. With that in mind, the likelihood that we can pass their campaign's total raised funds is MUCH higher than ever expected.

If we can pass McCain in total funds by June 30, we can prove, without a doubt, that Paul has REAL support, and this can easily translate into growing support of geometric proportions.

Again, I repeat: Don't go to Iowa if you are out-of-state. If you really want to help, donate all of the money that you would have spent on gas directly to the campaign.

Thanks.

For reference.

torchbearer

06-25-2007, 08:53 AM

http://eventful.com/events/E0-001-005011869-5

Here's the eventful link to the RALLY ...

I sgned up on a different eventful for the same event. how many eventfuls are there for this event?

Trevorjustco

06-25-2007, 08:54 AM

Yeah, my feelings were hurt a little bit from all of the skepticism.
It didn't help my credibility that I absentmindedly used the wrong name of the Michigan Chair. =P
Anyways, I would really like to hear from HQ directly what their plans are. Has anyone heard anything yet?

I'm beginning to suspect that there might have been a bit of misunderstanding between the Michigan director and myself. He might have been under the impression that Facebook was some sort of Michigan-based social networking site, and thus his directive to me to spread the word to the people on there (where this message originated) would have been perfectly justified. Traveling to Iowa and from Michigan and back could easily exceed $500.

Anyways, again, has anyone heard from HQ on this?

mdh

06-25-2007, 08:59 AM

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 08:59 AM

...

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:01 AM

It seems that new members don't read thread labels before continuing to spreading rumors.

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:05 AM

Nothing here interesting to look at. Go on now, move along.

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 09:07 AM

John, you need to tone it down. I will leave it at that.

Bryan in Iowa

06-25-2007, 09:07 AM

From the Campaign: EVERYONE IS INVITED TO Des Moines. Do NOT believe anything in Facebook or any other website that implies anything to the contrary.

From Joe Seehusen, Iowa State Coordinator:

"Stop this rumor in it's tracks.
Everyone is warmly invited and welcome to the event.
We are counting on a large showing of supporters from around the country, as well as in Iowa.
Thanks ...
Joe"

Received this morning at 6:56 AM in reply to my request for clarification.

Trevorjustco

06-25-2007, 09:08 AM

Trevor, are you saying that the Michigan campaign director, Paul Garfield, told you to post on facebook that folks should not go to Iowa? I was under the impression that Justine was solely responsible for online announcements on sites like facebook.

Yes.
Honestly, I'm not aware of what Justine does, or her reach on Facebook. Last I checked, I've never seen her post on Facebook directly, and her communications to the group has been entirely second-hand as well. (Usually through Jeff Frazee, or some other admins)

Additionally, like I noted, Paul doesn't seem to be in-the-know about the scope of Facebook. I tried to explain the site to him, but he seems to definitely be more of a meat-space minded strategist. I definitely double-checked with him when we were talking over dinner last night, that he wanted me to relay the message to the Facebook group.

Additionally, this a new decision that was the result of very recent discussions between Paul, Lew, and others on the upcoming events in Iowa, so it is no wonder that its not commonly known.

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 09:09 AM

From Joe Seehusen, Iowa State Coordinator:

"Stop this rumor in it's tracks.
Everyone is warmly invited and welcome to the event.
We are counting on a large showing of supporters from around the country, as well as in Iowa.
Thanks ...
Joe"

Received this morning at 6:56 AM in reply to my request for clarification.

Thank you, Bryan!

Scribbler de Stebbing

06-25-2007, 09:10 AM

Yeah, my feelings were hurt a little bit from all of the skepticism.
It didn't help my credibility that I absentmindedly used the wrong name of the Michigan Chair. =P
Anyways, I would really like to hear from HQ directly what their plans are. Has anyone heard anything yet?

I'm beginning to suspect that there might have been a bit of misunderstanding between the Michigan director and myself.

I'm guessing the Michigan director is either the Meetup organizer or ??? The only states with paid campaign staffers are IA and NH, right? Otherwise, we're mostly a self-appointed volunteer network.

JoshLowry

06-25-2007, 09:10 AM

Yes.
Honestly, I'm not aware of what Justine does, or her reach on Facebook. Last I checked, I've never seen her post on Facebook directly, and her communications to the group has been entirely second-hand as well. (Usually through Jeff Frazee, or some other admins)

Additionally, like I noted, Paul doesn't seem to be in-the-know about the scope of Facebook. I tried to explain the site to him, but he seems to definitely be more of a meat-space minded strategist. I definitely double-checked with him when we were talking over dinner last night, that he wanted me to relay the message to the Facebook group.

Additionally, this a new decision that was the result of very recent discussions between Paul, Lew, and others on the upcoming events in Iowa, so it is no wonder that its not commonly known.

I've talked with Justine this morning. She will be posting an announcement.

Trevorjustco

06-25-2007, 09:11 AM

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 09:13 AM

Trevorjustco:

Justine is the e-campaign coordinator. She is a paid staffer for the Ron Paul campaign. I think the events over the last few days go to show that she needs to be making these announcements, rather than leaving it up to word of mouth. This lack of coordination costs way too much time and needless frustration.

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:14 AM

It has come apparent to me that several new members on this message are spreading dis-information regarding the Ron Paul Rally in Des Moines. Several members are cutting and pasting old locked threads to keep the rumor going. It's quite a trick to cutting and paste to make a quote seem on the up and up.

EVERYONE IS INVITED TO DES MOINES JUNE 30TH FOR THE RON PAUL RALLY!!! Anyone one who questions my knowledge of the event is acting as an agent of DIS-INFORMATION. Keep posting the fact Des Moines is open to all.

Thank you,
John Kurr, Organizer
Des Moines Area & Central Iowa Ron Paul Meet-up Support Group.

mdh

06-25-2007, 09:14 AM

I'm guessing the Michigan director is either the Meetup organizer or ??? The only states with paid campaign staffers are IA and NH, right? Otherwise, we're mostly a self-appointed volunteer network.

No, Paul Garfield is an official campaign staff member, and is the campaign manager for the state of Michigan.

An up to date list of official campaign staff can be found at http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/

Bryan in Iowa

06-25-2007, 09:15 AM

dspectre

06-25-2007, 09:16 AM

John,

You really need to cool it.

CurtisLow

06-25-2007, 09:22 AM

From the Campaign: EVERYONE IS INVITED TO Des Moines. Do NOT believe anything in Facebook or any other website that implies anything to the contrary.

Hmm.. I had the same thought in the last couple of days.
Remember, this is an open forum. Beware of the Anti RP people. They can be sneaky.

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:25 AM

Hmm.. I had the same thought in the last couple of days.
Remember, this is an open forum. Beware of the Anti RP people. They can be sneaky.

Exactly my point in my earlier post.

Blowback

06-25-2007, 09:25 AM

dspectre

06-25-2007, 09:34 AM

Trevorjustco

06-25-2007, 09:41 AM

Everyone remember who those people are who spread the rumor. I haven't seen one apology yet. Just keep track of the negative rumor spreaders and commentors. Remember that anyone can get on this board.

Well, like an apology would help dissuade people's now vehement hatred for me and my supposed "sabotage" that was probably nothing more than a misunderstanding.

Anyways, I am sorry. Despite the stigma that is associated with this phrase: I was just following orders. :p

Bryan in Iowa

06-25-2007, 09:43 AM

Well let's be honest we don't know 100% sure until we get more official notices on the matter, which will probably come soon.

However, to think that people are coming on this forum to just sabotage the "get together" when it can easily be squashed by an official statement is ridiculous!!

The saying is true..."You are your worst enemy."

Joe Seehusen's message to the ground crew here in Des Moines is an official reply to Megan's statement. Joe is not coming on the boards to announce this. If Justine is 'official' to many of you, then you can wait for her announcement, but trust me, Joe's word is GOLD.

wizardwatson

06-25-2007, 09:45 AM

EVERYONE IS WELCOME

My name is David Watson, I'm the Topeka Meetup coordinator. I spoke to Andrew Michel on the phone in person about 5 minutes ago. He said, "Everyone is welcome". He was unaware that any such rumor about out-of-staters not being wanted even existed.

Just call HQ if you are unsure, if enough people call them they will put something official out to rebut this rumor.

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:46 AM

Well let's be honest we don't know 100% sure until we get more official notices on the matter, which will probably come soon.

However, to think that people are coming on this forum to just sabotage the "get together" when it can easily be squashed by an official statement is ridiculous!!

The saying is true..."You are your worst enemy."

The National HQ has enough to do. Please consider the facts: I am the Des Moines Organizer for the Des Moines Area & Central Iowa Ron Paul 2008 Meet-up Support Group. I was with Joe Seehusen Iowa Ron Paul Coordinator from 10:30 Friday morning at the Iowa GOP Straw Poll site auction to 7:00 that evening. I witnessed Joe sign the contract renting the hall next door to the Presidential Forum. Further, the Campaign website says Everyone is Invited. What more "officialness" is needed?

Scribbler de Stebbing

06-25-2007, 09:47 AM

No, Paul Garfield is an official campaign staff member, and is the campaign manager for the state of Michigan.

An up to date list of official campaign staff can be found at http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/

Okay, thanks. I didn't realize Michigan was at the top of the priority list. Glad to see they're rolling out staff. Who would have thunk they'd need it with all of us so WILLING and ABLE and COORDINATED? Sratch the coordinated.

joshuastjohn

06-25-2007, 09:47 AM

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 09:52 AM

Well, like an apology would help dissuade people's now vehement hatred for me and my supposed "sabotage" that was probably nothing more than a misunderstanding.

Anyways, I am sorry. Despite the stigma that is associated with this phrase: I was just following orders. :p

Is it a violation of Federal Anti-Racketeering statutes to use the internet in an attempt to harm the business of another? That is, the "business" of Ron Paul's Presidential Campaign. If so, "I was just following orders" will go over real good in front of a jury.

LibertyEagle

06-25-2007, 09:55 AM

John, I hope you have some proof of your claim that Trevor intentionally misled anyone. Because if you do not, you owe him an apology. And Trevor.... if you were wrong and it looks as if you were, you need to step up like a man and apologize for your error and attempt to straighten out the confusion you caused on Facebook.

Zydeco

06-25-2007, 09:55 AM

but it's getting difficult. I'll try harder.

yongrel

06-25-2007, 09:55 AM

John, cool your jets for a second. I'm just as inclined to believe it was an honest mix-up.

Innocent until proven guilty? Maybe?

Trevorjustco

06-25-2007, 09:56 AM

Is it a violation of Federal Anti-Racketeering statutes to use the internet in an attempt to harm the business of another? That is, the "business" of Ron Paul's Presidential Campaign. If so, "I was just following orders" will go over real good in front of a jury.

Good God! Now you're threatening legal action due to a misunderstanding?!
I'm trying to get to the bottom of this with Paul. Just lay off for a freaking minute.

Avalon

06-25-2007, 09:58 AM

Paul Garfield is the Michigan Chairman for the Ron Paul for President Committee. Lew Moore visited here for that announcement. Regardless of who's been invited, we from Michigan have been instructed to not go to Iowa because the costs would be better served as donations to the campaign. Why there hasn't been an official announcement nationally is beyond me.

That makes sense to me. I would like 3 things:

1. Confirmation from Josh or Brad (they both seem trustworthy and have contact with the campaign). No need to flood the HQ over this.
2. Plans from John as to what we out of staters can do while we are there. Not only the day of but the day before and maybe the next few days after.
3. Between the Iowa meetup coordinator, John, and HQ decide on a value of a participant in each of these scheduled/organized events. Post this value (and again, confirmation directly from Josh, Brad, HQ etc.)

Then we individuals can decide whether to come or not based on our personal expenditure and other details (how many people we can carpool with, how many events we can make, how much work we plan to do, etc).

mdh

06-25-2007, 10:01 AM

Calm down guys. Here's the deal.
HQ folks have links to everything - Trevor Cook's thread and his statement that the info came directly from Paul Garfield. They were not aware that Paul Garfield's name had been thrown around until my pal just mentioned it. They will confront Mr. Garfield as appropriate, as he's their employee.
If it turns out that Mr. Garfield did make those statements to Mr. Cook, then they will deal with that however they see fit, and Mr. Cook is not responsible for originating the rumor - if someone listed as an official campaign employee asked me to pass on info, I would, too. If it turns out that he did not initiate this, then the campaign folks will be able to deal with Mr. Cook as they see fit, as well.

At any rate, it's not particularly helpful to be upset at Trevor Cook until we know that he acted wrongly. Let's instead focus on getting the word out that the rumor is not correct.

I've made some posts on the original facebook thread. I'd urge Mr. Cook to edit his OP on there to reflect current developments.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=2229718737&topic=5091&post=39469

John of Des Moines

06-25-2007, 10:02 AM

Good God! Now you're threatening legal action due to a misunderstanding?!
I'm trying to get to the bottom of this with Paul. Just lay off for a freaking minute.

Why did you say you were just following orders? That is a statement against your interests. Now if you read my post I said "Is it a violation of Federal Anti-Racketeering statutes to use the internet in an attempt to harm the business of another?" That is called a question.

JoshLowry

06-25-2007, 10:05 AM

Why did you say you were just following orders? That is a statement against your interests. Now if you read my post I said "Is it a violation of Federal Anti-Racketeering statutes to use the internet in an attempt to harm the business of another?" That is called a question.

Please take it to private messages.

Mistakes happen.