Cloture Passed

[CaptLouAlbano]

Watching it now on Cspan2 - anyone have the list of yeas and nays?

[Deborah K]

What a disgrace.

[cajuncocoa]

Not yet...will watch for the roll call.

[CaptLouAlbano]

They are gutless. Oh well, then fight is in the House now. They have a bill that will delay implementation for one year.

[Deborah K]

The lines should be drawn now within the Republican party. The American people who do not want Obamacare should go after the republican POS cowards that voted yes. They need to go.

[sluggo]

Did anybody see that "Obamacares" nonsense just now?

[Deborah K]

They are gutless. Oh well, then fight is in the House now. They have a bill that will delay implementation for one year.

It won't pass the Senate. It's done now.

[CaptLouAlbano]

The lines should be drawn now within the Republican party. The American people who do not want Obamacare should go after the republican POS cowards that voted yes. They need to go.

When we get the list, I want to note who is up for reelection in 2014. Some of them may have viable primary challengers. I know it may piss off some of the purists, but if an establishment guy has a viable primary challenger, I will throw them some money even if they aren't a liberty candidate.

[AuH20]

I hear that McShame is smiling ear to ear.

[ClydeCoulter]

The lines should be drawn now within the Republican party. The American people who do not want Obamacare should go after the republican POS cowards that voted yes. They need to go.

Oh, no, you can't go by the votes of "no" because GOP senators have been posturing today once 6 GOP senators said they are a firm "yes". Only those that said they were a "no" prior to that 6 GOP senators are valid "good guys".

[FSP-Rebel]

19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

[CaseyJones]

I hear that McShame is smiling ear to ear.

ya you can see him smiling on c-span and thats him laughing

[CaptLouAlbano]

It won't pass the Senate. It's done now.

Probably so, but have to keep fighting on this one. Can't back down. Make the Senate vote to shut down the gov't - put in on their backs.

[AuH20]

If I'm in Tennessee, I'm voting for the democrat challenger. Those two are the worst!! Hate them.

[cajuncocoa]

19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

thanks.

[ClydeCoulter]

Here's an article that shows some of the GOP posturing

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/27/open-thread-senate-to-hold-cloture-vote-at-1230-et-on-house-bill-defunding-obamacare/


There are already a handful of GOPers who have committed publicly to voting with Reid for cloture — McConnell, Cornyn, Corker, Coburn, McCain, and Graham. That’s six; that’s all Reid needs to get to 60

After that, some GOP were safe to vote "NO" for posturing

[CaptLouAlbano]

This site has whether or not they pledged to vote NO. And also has candidates pledges on Obamacare funding

http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/

[Deborah K]

Probably so, but have to keep fighting on this one. Can't back down. Make the Senate vote to shut down the gov't - put in on their backs.

They'll just cower at the thought of being blamed for a shut-down. I agree they must fight to the bitter end. I just hate having my hope in the political process further diminished. It's really a good thing I'm not a psycho. I'd go postal on a few choice politicians. Just sayin.

[Sola_Fide]

19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

Rubio 2016
"He Voted Against Obamacare"

[AuH20]

Bevin needs to capitalize on this. He needs an ad buy.

[CaptLouAlbano]

They'll just cower at the thought of being blamed for a shut-down. I agree they must fight to the bitter end. I just hate having my hope in the political process further diminished. It's really a good thing I'm not a psycho. I'd go postal on a few choice politicians. Just sayin.

Hate to say it but Newt and DeLay need to be in the ears of the House right now. When they shut it down in the 90's they won and got legislation passed that likely may not have otherwise, and they gained seats. The revisionist history that the GOP was hurt by the shut down is false.

[JCDenton0451]

About time!


19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

That's slightly more than I expected.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Rubio 2016
"He Voted Against Obamacare"

Not a fan, but he was on this wagon from the start.

[Deborah K]

Here's an article that shows some of the GOP posturing

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/27/open-thread-senate-to-hold-cloture-vote-at-1230-et-on-house-bill-defunding-obamacare/


There are already a handful of GOPers who have committed publicly to voting with Reid for cloture — McConnell, Cornyn, Corker, Coburn, McCain, and Graham. That’s six; that’s all Reid needs to get to 60

After that, some GOP were safe to vote "NO" for posturing

We need to put up opponents to these creeps. I'm so disappointed in Coburn - he's a freakin doctor for Pete's sake!

[Brian4Liberty]

383637300455813120

[AuH20]

Hate to say it but Newt and DeLay need to be in the ears of the House right now. When they shut it down in the 90's they won and got legislation passed that likely may not have otherwise, and they gained seats. The revisionist history that the GOP was hurt by the shut down is false.

They shut it down for 30 days and actually survived it. All the tit suckers dependent on the fed gov don't vote GOP anyway!!!

[JCDenton0451]

Hate to say it but Newt and DeLay need to be in the ears of the House right now. When they shut it down in the 90's they won and got legislation passed that likely may not have otherwise, and they gained seats. The revisionist history that the GOP was hurt by the shut down is false.

How do you explain the fact GOP lost seats in 1998 midterms? Clearly, Newt's anti-Clinton antics had something to do with it.

[69360]

Hate to say it but Newt and DeLay need to be in the ears of the House right now. When they shut it down in the 90's they won and got legislation passed that likely may not have otherwise, and they gained seats. The revisionist history that the GOP was hurt by the shut down is false.

Clinton got re-elected in no small part because of the shutdown.

[CaptLouAlbano]

We need to put up opponents to these creeps. I'm so disappointed in Coburn - he's a freakin doctor for Pete's sake!

And has a pretty decent voting record otherwise. He's certainly not the worst of the bunch

[AuH20]

Clinton got re-elected in no small part because of the shutdown.

Clinton was running against Bob Dole. Nuff said.

[Deborah K]

We need to put up opponents to these creeps. I'm so disappointed in Coburn - he's a freakin doctor for Pete's sake!

Benton and McConnell deserve each other. Do you Bentonistas still think his association with McConnell will benefit Rand? Do you????

[Brett85]

And has a pretty decent voting record otherwise. He's certainly not the worst of the bunch

Not recently. Washington has changed him the longer he's been there.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Clinton got re-elected in no small part because of the shutdown.

Uh, Bob Dole - I think that was a huge reason for it. Did anyone get excited over Dole?

[Brett85]

What are they voting on now?

[CaptLouAlbano]

Not recently. Washington has changed him the longer he's been there.

82% on JBS, pretty consistent scores actually. Like I said, not the worst.

[CaptLouAlbano]

What are they voting on now?

Procedural vote. Not sure what it is for. Probably some rules vote.

[fr33]

Cornyn is getting his ass chewed out on Facebook. Pile on if you have an account. https://m.facebook.com/Sen.JohnCornyn/posts/10151874886109424

[Deborah K]

Cornyn is getting his ass chewed out on Facebook. Pile on if you have an account. https://m.facebook.com/Sen.JohnCornyn/posts/10151874886109424

Will do. Do any of those other MF'rs have an account? Does McConnell?

[69360]

Benton and McConnell deserve each other. Do you Bentonistas still think his association with McConnell will benefit Rand? Do you????

yes


Uh, Bob Dole - I think that was a huge reason for it. Did anyone get excited over Dole?

40% of voters did and more importantly 8% were so sick of DC bullshit they voted for Perot. Did you forget Ross?

[Deborah K]

Uh, Bob Dole - I think that was a huge reason for it. Did anyone get excited over Dole?

That was when I left the republican party and went non-partisan. I figured if Dole was all they had to offer, I was done. Voted for Perot.

[CaptLouAlbano]

yes



40% of voters did and more importantly 8% were so sick of DC bullshit they voted for Perot. Did you forget Ross?

Honestly, I did LOL. But yes, that is true. Perot did have an impact for sure. And those 40% were not excited over Dole. No one was - probably the most boring Presidential candidate on the GOP side since Ford.

[CaptLouAlbano]

That was a motion to waive the budget act - i.e. procedural.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Vote on the Reid Amendment. Should be a party line vote

[69360]

Vote on the Reid Amendment. Should be a party line vote

Most likely or very close, they already had their cover vote.

[Brian4Liberty]

383640817698476033

383640002308997120

383639463571636225

383638945826738177

383638495735975936

[CaptLouAlbano]

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jwithrow/republicans-surrender-see-whether-your-senators-vo

[Deborah K]

Benton and McConnell deserve each other. Do you Bentonistas still think his association with McConnell will benefit Rand? Do you????




yes



http://i44.tinypic.com/2mg6rlj.jpg

[Woods]

How do you explain the fact GOP lost seats in 1998 midterms? Clearly, Newt's anti-Clinton antics had something to do with it.The GOP lost a few seats in 98, coming down from an all-time high in 94. Anyone ever seen exit polling to substantiate this claim of causation?

[Brian4Liberty]

Ayotte and Flake. Good thing the Tea Party backed them. :rolleyes:

[Deborah K]

http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/jwithrow/republicans-surrender-see-whether-your-senators-vo

I'll spend some time today thanking the heroes.

[Czolgosz]

Y'all expected some sort of righteous stand?

lawl

[Deborah K]

dupe

[Woods]

Clinton got re-elected in no small part because of the shutdown.The 1996 election turned on a 28-day, so-called "shut down" in 1995, almost a year before the election? I sure don't remember it being mentioned during the campaign. Again, anyone seen exit polling data to substantiate this claim?

[Melissa]

So disgusting...of course both my Senators voted for it...and 1 is a Republican..

[jkr]

Portman-NO

COLOR ME SHOCKED!
MY CALL WORKED...

[69360]

The 1996 election turned on a 28-day, so-called "shut down" in 1995, almost a year before the election? I sure don't remember it being mentioned during the campaign. Again, anyone seen exit polling data to substantiate this claim?

Ross Perot. People were pissed at DC enough to vote for Ross, giving Clinton an easy win.

[ZENemy]

Again I say


Viable solutions are impossible from within the system, because the system is the problem.

[Keith and stuff]

Ayotte and Flake. Good thing the Tea Party backed them. :rolleyes:

The Tea Party didn't back Ayotte. Why would you think something like that? Flake was backed by Tea Party and some liberty folks, though, such as the RLC.
Anyway, this is the outcome everyone was expecting. Paul even talked about it as part of the strategy he saw happening.

[AuH20]

Freedomworks just sent me a strongly worded email with Mitch, Corker and Cornyn's face on it.

[Keith and stuff]

Again I say


Viable solutions are impossible from within the system, because the system is the problem.
On a federal level, that is almost always the case, according to all previously tried and currently debated strategies towards liberty. I'm pretty sure most people studying the issues for a long amount of time are well aware of this. In case they aren't, it is nice of you to remind them, even if you leave out the on the federal levels caveat.

[angelatc]

Ayotte and Flake. Good thing the Tea Party backed them. :rolleyes:

Flake especially irks me.

[Brett85]

Ayotte and Flake. Good thing the Tea Party backed them. :rolleyes:

Flake didn't vote.

[Woods]

Ross Perot. People were pissed at DC enough to vote for Ross, giving Clinton an easy win.I asked for data. :) That's speculation. And it doesn't work.

1996 popular vote:
Clinton 47.4 Mil
Dole 39.4 Mil
Perot 8 Mil

Even if one makes every assumption in your favor-
1) every single "pissed"person who voted "against DC" voted for Perot, and
2) every Perot voter would have otherwise voted for Dole;

Clinton would still have won because Dole and Perot combined has less votes.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I asked for data. :) That's speculation. And it doesn't work.

1996 popular vote:
Clinton 47.4 Mil
Dole 39.4 Mil
Perot 8 Mil

Even if one makes every assumption in your favor-
1) every single "pissed"person who voted "against DC" voted for Perot, and
2) every Perot voter would have otherwise voted for Dole;

Clinton would still have won because Dole and Perot combined has less votes.

Also to be considered is that Perot got a lot of new voters out to the polls in 92. In 92 turn out was 55% compared to 50% in 88. Now in 96 turnout was only 49% but it's safe to assume that some of the Perot vote was the same from 92

[69360]

I asked for data. :) That's speculation. And it doesn't work.

1996 popular vote:
Clinton 47.4 Mil
Dole 39.4 Mil
Perot 8 Mil

Even if one makes every assumption in your favor-
1) every single "pissed"person who voted "against DC" voted for Perot, and
2) every Perot voter would have otherwise voted for Dole;

Clinton would still have won because Dole and Perot combined has less votes.


Your logic fails to take into account people pissed at the GOP for the shutdown voted democrat as well, not just Perot. Perot was the main beneficiary of rage at the GOP, but not only.

[Philhelm]

19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

Both of my senators voted "no" at least.

[Brian4Liberty]

The Tea Party didn't back Ayotte. Why would you think something like that? Flake was backed by Tea Party and some liberty folks, though, such as the RLC.


Just because you didn't support her doesn't mean that she wasn't portrayed as a "Tea Party" candidate in 2009/2010, along with Rubio.

Hell, they were still doing it this year:


CPAC 2013: Kelly Ayotte, Tea Party Hawk

Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) is the unsung heroine of the foreign policy debates of the past few months. A Tea Party candidate who was elected in the 2010 wave, Ayotte has been one of the most reliable voices on the Benghazi attacks...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/15/CPAC-2013-Kelly-Ayotte-Tea-Party-Hawk

[libertyjam]

The senate voted 54-44 to remove the language to defund the ACA.

[CaptLouAlbano]

The senate voted 54-44 to remove the language to defund the ACA.

Looks like two abstained

[Brian4Liberty]

Flake didn't vote.

Sorry, not buying that "abstain" BS.

[JCDenton0451]

Ok, I have to say that Conservative opposition to Obamacare baffles me, especially the people who're foaming at the mouth ranting against Obamacare, while being mostly indifferent about the prospect of "immigration reform".

If you think Obamacare is bad, then how do you like a single-payer system?

Single-payer will become inevitable once they add 20 million Mexicans to the voter rolls. Republican majority in the House of Representatives is the only thing that might prevent this from happening. Do you really want to gamble this majority in a futile bid to defund Obamacare; just to make a point?

This is truly a stupid party.

[Brett85]

Sorry, not buying that "abstain" BS.

Well, my guess would be that he wasn't there.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Sorry, not buying that "abstain" BS.

Did he abstain for the other vote? Might not have been at the Senate. It was an important vote granted, but not like he was the deciding vote by any means,

[tsai3904]

Flake is at his son's wedding today. He tweeted the other day that he was opposed to cloture.

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/azdc/2013/09/26/sons-wedding-will-make-flake-miss-key-senate-votes/


Sen. Jeff Flake is not in Washington as his fellow senators grapple with a continuing resolution to keep the federal government running and possibly attempt to defund President Barack Obama‘s signature health-care law. The Arizona Republican is back home in Mesa for his 20-year-old son Austin Flake‘s wedding ceremony and reception on Friday.

[Deborah K]

Looks like two abstained

Hatch and Flake.

[klamath]

Hate to say it but Newt and DeLay need to be in the ears of the House right now. When they shut it down in the 90's they won and got legislation passed that likely may not have otherwise, and they gained seats. The revisionist history that the GOP was hurt by the shut down is false. Are you sure? The republicans lost 5 seats in 98.

[Philhelm]

Flake is at his son's wedding today.

No excuse.

[MichaelDavis]

19 vote no
Vitter, Paul, Lee, Cruz, Crapo, Enzi, Fischer, Roberts, Scott, Heller, Grassley, Toomey, Moran, Rubio, Shelby, Risch, Inhofe, Portman, Sessions

This means there are 81 gutless traitors. I will never vote Democratic because they are all the same. There is no such thing as a "moderate Democrat". Each believes in bigger government and more regulations.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Are you sure? The republicans lost 5 seats in 98.

They gained 3 in the Senate. The victory was in the legislation. Showed they had some balls for once.

[Keith and stuff]

Just because you didn't support her doesn't mean that she wasn't portrayed as a "Tea Party" candidate in 2009/2010, along with Rubio.

Hell, they were still doing it this year:
Fair enough. Once the Tea Party and liberty light candidates both lost in the GOP primary, a handful a tea party people might have supported her, I guess it is possible. Also, fake national (joke) Tea Party groups might have thrown money at her as was common towards many Republicans in 2010. She beat the Tea Party candidate in the primary by like 1% of the vote. I'll breakdown the truth for you since you don't seem to have any first hand knowledge of this issue.

Republican Kelly Ayotte 53,056 38.21% (establishment candidates supported by only establishment people and moderate independents)
Republican Ovide Lamontagne 51,397 37.01% (Tea Party candidate)
Republican Bill Binnie 19,508 14.05% (self financed candidate with ever changing beliefs, couple be described as anything from moderate to establishment to liberal)
Republican Jim Bender 12,611 9.08% (liberty people ran his campaign but he wasn't even up to the Rand Paul level when it came to the issues)
Republican Dennis Lamare 1,388 1.00% (little known liberty candiate)
Republican Tom Alciere 499 0.36% (anarch-capitalist that supported the killing of cops if they did something wrong)
Republican Gerard Beloin 402 0.29% (don't remember this candiate)

Is it possible that some Tea Party people supported Ayotte after her narrow victory? Yes. Is she at all a Tea Party candidate? Not in the least. She might have played up the issue a little to certain, select voters because at that time, the Tea Party was somewhat popular in NH. Calling her a Tea Party candidate is highly inaccurate, IMO. That is, unless you consider Mitt Romney, a man with substantially more Tea Party support, a Tea Party candidate.

[Carlybee]

We need someone to primary Cornyn desperately.

[Deborah K]

Ok, I have to say that Conservative opposition to Obamacare baffles me, especially the people who're foaming at the mouth ranting against Obamacare, while being mostly indifferent about the prospect of "immigration reform".

If you think Obamacare is bad, then how do you like a single-payer system?

Single-payer will become inevitable once they add 20 million Mexicans to the voter rolls. Republican majority in the House of Representatives is the only thing that might prevent this from happening. Do you really want to gamble this majority in a futile bid to defund Obamacare; just to make a point?

This is truly a stupid party.

Where did you ever get the idea that republicans are lukewarm about illegal immigration? Every time it ever came up in congress they voted against it. Only now the Emperor just writes executive orders on it.

The line has been drawn between the old republican guard and the new blood (new in the literal sense, as well as new-thinking). Cruz, et.al. just did the will of their constituents. By not doing it, they ran the risk of losing their seats. And now the old guard runs the risk of losing theirs.

[georgiaboy]

Tom Coburn -- ha! He was supposed to be on C-SPAN's Washington Journal this morning @7:45 a.m. EDT for 30 mins of call-in Q&A regarding this very topic, but he "wasn't able to join due to a technical difficulty on C-SPAN's part" according to the C-SPAN host, Peter Slen.

And now this, Brutus. IIRC, Tom isn't planning to return to the Senate after this term, so no excuse there. Besides, his Oklahoma constituency would have to be in favor of defunding Ocare. Disgusting. I really like Tom, too.

For my two useless Senators, Chambliss is not running in 2014, so open seat there (YES!), and Isakson disappoints regularly, a big gov't guy who only wears the GOP badge so he can get elected, and possibly for so-con reasons, though he moderates through and through. His handful of decent votes were more pragmatism and party-line than principle. Dixiecrats.

[Deborah K]

We need someone to primary Cornyn desperately.

We need someone to run against every one of those creepy cowardly losers who voted for cloture.

[tsai3904]

Tom Coburn -- ha!

Here's Coburn's reasoning:
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=85683a66-2aec-4e60-8ff8-7f7c6c232f74

[Deborah K]

Tom Coburn -- ha! He was supposed to be on C-SPAN's Washington Journal this morning @7:45 a.m. EDT for 30 mins of call-in Q&A regarding this very topic, but he "wasn't able to join due to a technical difficulty on C-SPAN's part" according to the C-SPAN host, Peter Slen.

And now this, Brutus. IIRC, Tom isn't planning to return to the Senate after this term, so no excuse there. Besides, his Oklahoma constituency would have to be in favor of defunding Ocare. Disgusting. I really like Tom, too.

Yeah, he's turned out to be a big disappointment for me as well. And he's a doctor no less. smh

[georgiaboy]

Flake especially irks me.

Yeah, what's with that guy? He used to be so solid, IIRC.

[CPUd]

They did take some shots at Newt during the 95 shutdown:

http://i.imgur.com/rqjgOeL.jpg

[Keith and stuff]

Here's Coburn's reasoning:
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=85683a66-2aec-4e60-8ff8-7f7c6c232f74

I still consider him 1 of the 10 least bad folks in the Senate. I disagree with him on this issue but I respect his opinion on the matter. He has voted many times, and on almost all of the ObamaCare votes, he was on the correct side. Anyway, since most Republicans in the Senate disagreed with Cruz on this, I don't understand why people are calling out Flake or Coburn specifically on this. Call them all out, might as well. Anyway, it wasn't even close.

[jj-]

Almost half the Republicans went with Cruz. It was something like 23 to 19.

[georgiaboy]

Here's Coburn's reasoning:
http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=85683a66-2aec-4e60-8ff8-7f7c6c232f74

That actually helps me see his perspective better, thanks! This whole thing seems to be more complicated than has even been explained elsewhere on the forums. Even the good guys are disagreeing on this one.

[georgiaboy]

... I don't understand why people are calling out Flake or Coburn specifically on this. ...

because Flake and Coburn typically side with conservatives.

[Deborah K]

That actually helps me see his perspective better, thanks! This whole thing seems to be more complicated than has even been explained elsewhere on the forums. Even the good guys are disagreeing on this one.

He's basically calling Rand out in that explanation. And from what I understand, shutting down the gov't includes all but essential services - so what's the big deal?
They're nothing but a bunch of cowards. That is all.

[Brett85]

No excuse.

Ha ha, if going to your son's wedding isn't a good excuse to miss a vote, then what is?

[Brian4Liberty]

Fair enough. Once the Tea Party and liberty light candidates both lost in the GOP primary, a handful a tea party people might have supported her, I guess it is possible. Also, fake national (joke) Tea Party groups might have thrown money at her as was common towards many Republicans in 2010. She beat the Tea Party candidate in the primary by like 1% of the vote. I'll breakdown the truth for you since you don't seem to have any first hand knowledge of this issue.

Republican Kelly Ayotte 53,056 38.21% (establishment candidates supported by only establishment people and moderate independents)
Republican Ovide Lamontagne 51,397 37.01% (Tea Party candidate)
Republican Bill Binnie 19,508 14.05% (self financed candidate with ever changing beliefs, couple be described as anything from moderate to establishment to liberal)
Republican Jim Bender 12,611 9.08% (liberty people ran his campaign but he wasn't even up to the Rand Paul level when it came to the issues)
Republican Dennis Lamare 1,388 1.00% (little known liberty candiate)
Republican Tom Alciere 499 0.36% (anarch-capitalist that supported the killing of cops if they did something wrong)
Republican Gerard Beloin 402 0.29% (don't remember this candiate)

Is it possible that some Tea Party people supported Ayotte after her narrow victory? Yes. Is she at all a Tea Party candidate? Not in the least. She might have played up the issue a little to certain, select voters because at that time, the Tea Party was somewhat popular in NH. Calling her a Tea Party candidate is highly inaccurate, IMO. That is, unless you consider Mitt Romney, a man with substantially more Tea Party support, a Tea Party candidate.

I forgot about Ovide... No run-off in NH means that the liberty movement screwed themselves. Too many candidates vs. the single establishment candidate.

IIRC, orgs like Freedomworks, Heritage, SCF, etc. backed her (Tea Party lite), but that could have been after the Primary.

[Brian4Liberty]

Flake is at his son's wedding today. He tweeted the other day that he was opposed to cloture.

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/azdc/2013/09/26/sons-wedding-will-make-flake-miss-key-senate-votes/

Decent excuse.

Then again, there is the slight possibility that the Wedding was scheduled on that day for a reason. "Son, why don't you schedule that on the last weekend of the fiscal year. I don't want to be in DC that weekend".

[nobody's_hero]

I can't help but think that if Obamacare were successfully defunded before being implemented, the big-spending liberals will simply be able to cry about 'what might have been if only those rascally republicans hadn't stopped us'.

Here's what I think will happen:

Obamacare will go into full effect. The American people will choke on it. The democrats will be left holding the murder weapon which killed our economy (deader than it already was) and raised premiums for most Americans. The GOP can then play innocent and get the majority needed to overturn it. Of course, that won't happen unless we can change the leadership in the GOP.

Of course, leadership changes will only happen if we can boot people like McConnell and Boehner out of their positions. However, I've seen people on this forum defending those two whenever they were challenged, so . . .

[Bastiat's The Law]

Again I say


Viable solutions are impossible from within the system, because the system is the problem.
Nobody asked your opinion.

[Deborah K]

I can't help but think that if Obamacare were successfully defunded before being implemented, the big-spending liberals will simply be able to cry about 'what might have been if only those rascally republicans hadn't stopped us'.

Here's what I think will happen:

Obamacare will go into full effect. The American people will choke on it. The democrats will be left holding the murder weapon which killed our economy (deader than it already was) and raised premiums for most Americans. The GOP can then play innocent and get the majority needed to overturn it. Of course, that won't happen unless we can change the leadership in the GOP.

Of course, leadership changes will only happen if we can boot people like McConnell and Boehner out of their positions. However, I've seen people on this forum defending those two whenever they were challenged, so . . .

Nah...they'll just dump the mess into socialized medicine for all - a single payer program - and things in DC will remain status quo, until one day we wake up and realize our gov't is the U.N. and we're all global citizens.

[Bastiat's The Law]

We need someone to run against every one of those creepy cowardly losers who voted for cloture.

Now this is what I like to hear!

[nobody's_hero]

Nah...they'll just dump the mess into socialized medicine for all - a single payer program - and things in DC will remain status quo, until one day we wake up and realize our gov't is the U.N. and we're all global citizens.

That comes after the GOP blows their next majority. The Democrats know Obamacare will fail but I doubt they'll have time to implement single-payer before the next election, in which I expect the democrats to lose their majority in the Senate.

We go through this in cycles. Dems get a majority, become too arrogant, pass something outlandish, and suffer for it at the ballot box. The GOP takes over, becomes too arrogant, passes something outlandish, and suffers for it at the ballot box. Rinse, repeat. Currently, the Dems have had their turn to steer ships into icebergs, so the GOP is up next. We'll see single payer when the next GOP majority does something stupid like start a war against Earth or bails out Corruption Inc., and leaves a bad taste in voters' mouths, and the dems are back in control once again.

[Deborah K]

That comes after the GOP blows their next majority. The Democrats know Obamacare will fail but I doubt they'll have time to implement single-payer before the next election, in which I expect the democrats to lose their majority in the Senate.

We go through this in cycles. Dems get a majority, become too arrogant, pass something outlandish, and suffer for it at the ballot box. The GOP takes over, becomes too arrogant, passes something outlandish, and suffers for it at the ballot box. Rinse, repeat. Currently, the Dems have had their turn to steer ships into icebergs, so the GOP is up next.

What scares me is that never in our history has a massive program like this ever been repealed. So once it's fully implemented, we're stuck with it. That means the gov't has control over more than 20% of the economy, and control over our health care. The gov't - control over our healthcare - the same gov't who controls our postal service, which is in shambles - yeah them. Someone kill me now.

[Jeremy]

These Republicans voted for it:

Lamar Alexander (R-TN) John Cornyn (R-TX)
Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
John Barrasso (R-WY) John Hoeven (R-ND)
Roy Blunt (R-MO) Johnny Isakson (R-GA)
John Boozman (R-AR) Mike Johanns (R-NE)
Richard Burr (R-NC) Ron Johnson (R-WI)
Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) Mark Kirk (R-IL)
Jeff Chiesa (R-NJ) John McCain (R-AZ)
Dan Coats (R-IN) Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
Tom Coburn (R-OK) Lisa Murkowksi (R-AK)
Thad Cochran (R-MS) John Thune (R-SD)
Susan Collins (R-ME) Roger Wicker (R-MS)
Bob Corker (R-TN)

[CPUd]

I can't help but think that if Obamacare were successfully defunded before being implemented, the big-spending liberals will simply be able to cry about 'what might have been if only those rascally republicans hadn't stopped us'.

Here's what I think will happen:

Obamacare will go into full effect. The American people will choke on it. The democrats will be left holding the murder weapon which killed our economy (deader than it already was) and raised premiums for most Americans. The GOP can then play innocent and get the majority needed to overturn it. Of course, that won't happen unless we can change the leadership in the GOP.

Of course, leadership changes will only happen if we can boot people like McConnell and Boehner out of their positions. However, I've seen people on this forum defending those two whenever they were challenged, so . . .

TN has its own state-run program, but it only lasted a few years before they had to start scaling it down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TennCare

People were using it to game the system, or even do outright fraud. HMOs were getting paid, too. If you had a plan through your employer, and went to the doctor, they will charge the hell out of it because you have "good" insurance.

[Brett85]

That actually helps me see his perspective better, thanks! This whole thing seems to be more complicated than has even been explained elsewhere on the forums. Even the good guys are disagreeing on this one.

I really don't think Coburn is all that good anymore. He was much better when he first started out in Congress. I lost faith in him when he introduced a bill with his own version of "universal background checks" for gun purchases.

[Brett85]

Eric Bolling on Fox just used the term "anarcho capitalist." I'm pretty sure I've never heard that on Fox before. :)

[Deborah K]

Eric Bolling on Fox just used the term "anarcho capitalist." I'm pretty sure I've never heard that on Fox before. :)

Did he use it in a positive, or negative light?

[anaconda]

The lines should be drawn now within the Republican party. The American people who do not want Obamacare should go after the republican POS cowards that voted yes. They need to go.

I'm fully prepared to lose elections until the Republican elite agree to significant policy changes.

[Brett85]

Did he use it in a positive, or negative light?

I didn't catch exactly what he was saying, but he said something to the effect of, "some people are saying that we're anarcho capitalists."

[anaconda]

Eric Bolling on Fox just used the term "anarcho capitalist." I'm pretty sure I've never heard that on Fox before. :)

LOL. O'Reilly claimed to not have heard of Keynes. Fox is the beacon of intellect.

[anaconda]

These Republicans voted for it:

Lamar Alexander (R-TN) John Cornyn (R-TX)
Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
John Barrasso (R-WY) John Hoeven (R-ND)
Roy Blunt (R-MO) Johnny Isakson (R-GA)
John Boozman (R-AR) Mike Johanns (R-NE)
Richard Burr (R-NC) Ron Johnson (R-WI)
Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) Mark Kirk (R-IL)
Jeff Chiesa (R-NJ) John McCain (R-AZ)
Dan Coats (R-IN) Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
Tom Coburn (R-OK) Lisa Murkowksi (R-AK)
Thad Cochran (R-MS) John Thune (R-SD)
Susan Collins (R-ME) Roger Wicker (R-MS)
Bob Corker (R-TN)

33 R's were against cloture? I'm surprised this many stood with Ted.

UPDATE: But now I'm confused. Post #11 in this thread says only 19 supported Ted.

[anaconda]

It won't pass the Senate. It's done now.

Don't we need passage in both houses for anything to be "done?"

UPDATE: Oh, wait..are you saying that no continuing res will pass and that we will shut down? I may have misunderstood you..Just curious.

[anaconda]

They'll just cower at the thought of being blamed for a shut-down. I agree they must fight to the bitter end. I just hate having my hope in the political process further diminished. It's really a good thing I'm not a psycho. I'd go postal on a few choice politicians. Just sayin.

From what I read yesterday, Boehner is running into unexpected resistance for creating a wimpy statist bill. Tea Party Repubs in the house won't let him defer to the debt ceiling. They are drawing a line in the sand right here. Should be interesting. I'm thinking shutdown.

[Keith and stuff]

TN has its own state-run program, but it only lasted a few years before they had to start scaling it down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TennCare

People were using it to game the system, or even do outright fraud. HMOs were getting paid, too. If you had a plan through your employer, and went to the doctor, they will charge the hell out of it because you have "good" insurance.
Yeah, HillaryCare proved to be a failure in TN. It was decided to scale it back a little but the Republicans seemed to mostly like it after time. Like a typical big government welfare program, people got used to it. The sad history of government growth :(

[Henry Rogue]

yes



40% of voters did and more importantly 8% were so sick of DC bullshit they voted for Perot. Did you forget Ross?
Not sure if anyone covered this, as I haven't read through all the posts yet. Ross Perot was not a factor in the "96" election of Dole vs Clinton. Ross Perot was a huge factor in the "92" election of Bush1 vs Clinton.

[Feeding the Abscess]

When we get the list, I want to note who is up for reelection in 2014. Some of them may have viable primary challengers. I know it may piss off some of the purists, but if an establishment guy has a viable primary challenger, I will throw them some money even if they aren't a liberty candidate.

So you'll be donating to Bevin?

[Feeding the Abscess]

33 R's were against cloture? I'm surprised this many stood with Ted.

UPDATE: But now I'm confused. Post #11 in this thread says only 19 supported Ted.

Those guys voted for cloture.

[jjdoyle]

Wait, there are a lot of wrong people in here. Mitch McConnell could not, and WOULD not vote for this. Why? Very simple folks, Rand Paul endorsed him. Mitch McConnell needs to win his re-election, and knows that this vote would be very bad for that, and Mitch McConnell is a very honest politician, which is why Rand Paul endorsed him, right?

I mean, come on guys (and gals), don't you know how to play the game? You advance the ball down the field slowly, but surely...always asking for donations...holding out false hope. Mitch McConnell, IF he did vote for this (I call conspiracy on the actual vote, if I didn't see it happen, I question it, right?), maybe he did it so he could remain on the "inside" like Rand? Get in good with the bad guys, and know their plans? Maybe he's going to fumble the ball on purpose on the next play, and really help us out, because he has such a great record of being a liberty minded candidate that has taken his oath to the Constitution so seriously...right?

I mean, why else would Rand Paul endorse a dishonest politician like Mitt Romney and follow it up with greats like Mitch McConnell? Matt Bevin should drop out if he knows what is good for the Republican Party, and what is good for this country. Mitch McConnell is a true patriot, probably as close to someone like Walter Jones in the Senate before Rand even got there.

Now, let me setup a Paypal account real quick and ask for some donations to help get Mitch McConnell re-elected!

[Philhelm]

Ha ha, if going to your son's wedding isn't a good excuse to miss a vote, then what is?

Death in the defense of liberty.

I was not allowed enough time to have a honeymoon while working in the private sector. Our "representatives" should be more duty-bound.

[Feeding the Abscess]

Eric Bolling on Fox just used the term "anarcho capitalist." I'm pretty sure I've never heard that on Fox before. :)

He didn't say anarcho-capitalist. He just said anarchist.