What Cruz is doing is WORKING!

[tangent4ronpaul]

It's the lead story on Google News.

1,400 news outlets are covering the "filibuster" and upcoming vote.

There are 1,881 articles...

:eek:

any bets on how many Dems might cave? There are at least 3 Dems that are vulnerable in '14

There are 20 Dem Senate seats up for grabs in '14 and only 13 Rep seats.

You know these question are floating through a lot of Dem (and to an extent Repub minds) :

Is my vote worth loosing re-election?
What's worse? Loosing the Senate majority or Loosing Obamacare? (or opening it up for reform)

-t

[Warlord]

All he's done is give a long speech. It is not a filibuster and he'll lose. Red state dems will vote with Reid. They dont care

[Jeremy]

Well working to do what exactly? If anything he's furthering himself from the mainstream party, which only benefits us.

[FSP-Rebel]

All he's done is give a long speech. It is not a filibuster and he'll lose. Red state dems will vote with Reid. They dont care
Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

[CaseyJones]

And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

no but we maybe should have an allies section

[kathy88]

All he's doing is gathering votes from the idiots who base voting decisions on things like who can hold their piss longer.

[Warlord]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

Cruz is not to be trusted and his long speech achieves nothing.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Drawing more attention to the issue and bringing heat on Senate Dems.

Senate phone lines are busy. If you are lucky, you might be able to leave a message on a not full voive mail box.

Do you really think Durban would be trying to sell his side if he had it in the bag?

Reid is being a dirt bag, as usual...

-t

[klamath]

He is not going to win. He is wining support from a hardcore base but in the end the government will get funded and it will be poll check time to see who won the public opinion battle. I believe there is a lot higher risk the republicans will lose it.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

Second

-t

[ClydeCoulter]

I agree, @tangent!
He is bringing light to the procedure and the deceitfulness that is used to make it look like one thing is being done (on votes) while procedure is used to do the opposite!

[Carlybee]

I doubt it will swing any Dems. The mantra now is that no one has to use the exchanges...they are only there for those who cant afford insurance. Of course they dont say how expensive keeping your current plan is going to be.

[tangent4ronpaul]

WTF Cruz?

Reid just said after the prayer, he had the floor till 1pm. Cruz blew him off saying he was going to get cut off at noon as his request wasn't granted...

Low blood sugar?

-t

[CaptLouAlbano]

Cruz is not to be trusted and his long speech achieves nothing.

And you should be trusted why?

[CaptLouAlbano]

WTF Cruz?

Reid just said after the prayer, he had the floor till 1pm. Cruz blew him off saying he was going to get cut off at noon as his request wasn't granted...

Low blood sugar?

-t

I think Reid is wrong on the rules on this. They were talking about this hours ago

[ClydeCoulter]

I think Reid is wrong on the rules on this. They were talking about this hours ago

And, he would have to agree to give McCain 15 minutes to subvert the whole of 20 hours of work.

[Cleaner44]

All he's doing is gathering votes from the idiots who base voting decisions on things like who can hold their piss longer.

http://www.lenoxmedicalsupply.com/images/depends.jpg

[tangent4ronpaul]

And, he would have to agree to give McCain 15 minutes to subvert the whole of 20 hours of work.

So it's better to dropkick a bird in the hand and give McCain a full hour to derail 20 hours worth of work?

-t

[enhanced_deficit]

For Cruz, CUFI Sunk AUFI

In addition to very good points made above, his heavy neoconish Foreign Policy/Invasion mongering baggage also hurts Cruz's already opportunistic domestic politics image among growing non-interventionist majority.

Cruz called war mongering lunatic John hagee a "great guy" and went to address his 'Christians United For Israel' CUFI rally.
Cruz suggested US invasion of Syria to get their WMDs.
Cruz says Obama's foreign policy is too dovish.
Cruz is praised by leftwing neocons like Alan Dershowitz.

Almost all politicians pander but some of his views on some very important issues are not tolerable for many. R T Cruz has hurt his Senate re-election chances imo now that his inner neocon has been outed. He can attempt to kiss the low hanging edge of Senate chamber and will still be doubted by many.. myself included.
That said, nothing wrong with using him for strategic goals of advancing cause of Liberty where it is fitting.




It's the lead story on Google News.

1,400 news outlets are covering the "filibuster" and upcoming vote.

There are 1,881 articles...

:eek:

any bets on how many Dems might cave? There are at least 3 Dems that are vulnerable in '14

There are 20 Dem Senate seats up for grabs in '14 and only 13 Rep seats.

You know these question are floating through a lot of Dem (and to an extent Repub minds) :

Is my vote worth loosing re-election?
What's worse? Loosing the Senate majority or Loosing Obamacare? (or opening it up for reform)

-t

3 days preceding this, Kenya mall attackers were top headline on google news. They were reportedly aiming to bring attention to Kenya's Somalia invasion of 2011 and may have had some success in buying publicity for their cause but it may not be all good publicity.

Extreme example above but Ocare/SWCcare did not suffer from 'lack of attention' ; unless he changed any minds - which remains very unlikely - it would be seen by many in America as a self-serving tactic without any material change.

[radiofriendly]

no but we maybe should have an allies section

I second this idea!
Sen. Cruz gave a shout out to YAL during his long talk. An allies section would bring in some newbies and help us focus on keeping these members accountable to a more constitutional platform.

[ClydeCoulter]

So it's better to dropkick a bird in the hand and give McCain a full hour to derail 20 hours worth of work?

-t

We'll see if McCain gets the floor for doing so now.
I'm still watching, McConnel is up next. Let's see if he is a coward or not.

[ClydeCoulter]

The vote on cloture will be the telling of success or not for Cruz's last 21+ hours.

[ClydeCoulter]

Damnit! McConnell is making this about the vote on the bill and trying to turn it toward that "show vote" instead of cloture.

[brandon]

Doesn't matter if a handful of dems flip. Bottom line is we don't have the 2/3rds in each house necessary to overturn the inevitable Obama veto.

[ClydeCoulter]

Could Rand take over today?

[ClydeCoulter]

Doesn't matter if a handful of dems flip. Bottom line is we don't have the 2/3rds in each house necessary to overturn the inevitable Obama veto.

But, then a government shutdown would be on Obama.

[jllundqu]

Cruz may be an ally, but I would keep him at a distance. He may appear to be fighting the good fight, but I assure you this is self-fellating at its best.

[ClydeCoulter]

SMH

Divisiveness and division is going to kill this country if we keep it up. "Go team Rand"!

[ClydeCoulter]

Yep, McCain is taking the floor for 15 mins. :mad:

[ObiRandKenobi]

i hate ted cruz but. good job. great job.

[CaseyJones]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?428605-Melt-the-phones!

[RabbitMan]

I'm all for showboating when it leads to bipartisan coalitions or bringing an important issue to the forefront.

This accomplishes neither, public opinion is against it, and I don't see the point of it. Good on Cruz for trying to do something I guess, but I just don't see a point other than to try and build a national profile with the Republican base. Seems purely political. :/

[ClydeCoulter]

Now, McCain is trying to get everyone to lay down and take their screwing peacefully :mad:

<sarc> Maybe Ted Cruz should be more like McCain? </sarc>

[ClydeCoulter]

#TraitorMcCain

382908388260458496

[AuH20]

Cruz is setting up the table for primary challenges. That's the beauty of this stunt. Vote for Reid's editing vote and face hell going forward.

[sluggo]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

I would like to see a Greg Brannon forum. If he can get past Tillis, and then Hagan, that would mean one less Obama groupie in the senate.

[ClydeCoulter]

This vote being taken right now on the senate floor is what Ted Cruz was working on all night! While nearly everyone else was sleeping.

[cajuncocoa]

All he's done is give a long speech. It is not a filibuster and he'll lose. Red state dems will vote with Reid. They dont care

I'll bet you'd see it as a filibuster if Rand was doing it. And you wonder why people call this movement a cult of personality.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Who was that lying sack of shit that spoke last?

The SS checks wont get sent out.

Food inspectors won't be able to make sure your food is safe

etc.

-t

[Todd]

When Rand did this it was fantastic

When Cruz does this everybody loses their minds.

:rolleyes:

[DP714]

This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. If it was Rand up there instead of Cruz, no one here would be shitting on such an epic speech/nonfillibuster. Rather phones would have been blowing up left and right in DC, people would be fired up proclaiming how such a mastermind Rand is and all that. But that's not would happened. Cruz was left hanging and those who he was standing up for turned on him...I still don't understand how such a response was warranted. There was nothing objectionable about anything he said.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Mr Cruz - AYE

hmmm....

-t

[SilentBull]

#TraitorMcCain

382908388260458496

Why don't people in Arizona just recall that asshole!

[rich34]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

No 2nd here!!!!

Cruz is an opportunistic SNAKE!! I reckon those here who love his little Bush (Prescott) buddy and Goldman Sachs wife will realize this when its to late.. I'll NEVER vote for the guy for nothing, the man really don't take sides and tries to hide his policy on things the best he can. Hey Ted how are you on foreign policy? Oh somewhere between McCain and Paul.. Wow really turncoat Ted? He's running just as Bush did in 2000 while at it getting advice from another Bush, yup he's our guy...

[ClydeCoulter]

My Senator Dan Coats is pissing me off!

edit: He's pulling the dem card of shutting down the government will be 'R's fault if they don't fund ObumerCare, WTH?

[Christian Liberty]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?

I agree that Cruz deserves a subforum, under "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing."

I'm not sure what to make of Lee yet. Since I don't know he's an enemy, I'd vote for him, but I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do so because I don't know if he's an ally either.

Rand is the only senator I can really endorse, and even that's a "Despite some of his rhetoric and a few of his votes" kind of support. I much prefer Amash and Massie.

[cajuncocoa]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?
Aw, hell no. C'mon, dude! Cruz?? He's no friend of liberty.


I agree that Cruz deserves a subforum, under "Wolves in Sheeps Clothing."

I'm not sure what to make of Lee yet. Since I don't know he's an enemy, I'd vote for him, but I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do so because I don't know if he's an ally either.

Rand is the only senator I can really endorse, and even that's a "Despite some of his rhetoric and a few of his votes" kind of support. I much prefer Amash and Massie.^^this.

[ClydeCoulter]

Screw you Dan Coats! You want to "push it down the road", and you don't understand the "senate procedures" then start learning or leave office!

[Jeremy]

Aw, hell no. C'mon, dude! Cruz?? He's no friend of liberty.

Of course he is!!!

He may not be in our top 3, but probably top 5. 10 at least.

[cajuncocoa]

Of course he is!!!

He may not be in our top 3, but probably top 5. 10 at least.

No....no, he's not. Just because the other 99 are so much worse than Rand doesn't mean you can just put 9 others in the "top ten" and call them friends of liberty. Look at where he stands....these are not liberty positions in many cases:

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Ted_Cruz.htm

[Deborah K]

Bear in mind folks, Rand has no problem supporting him in this effort. That's good enough for me at this point. I just need more education on this process. I was of the understanding that this cloture vote this morning was the one we wanted republican senators to vote against.

[Carlybee]

Why don't people in Arizona just recall that asshole!


Why doesn't the GOP censure him?

[Keith and stuff]

Nonsense, Cruz is doing what should've been done before obamacare was allowed to pass tho they may have had enough of a majority back then to shut down debate. I give Cruz lots of credit for rallying the troops on this, so many conservatives feel lost and this gives them some hope & a mission to engage in. And I, for one, think Cruz and Lee deserve their own sub-forums here now.:p Is there a 2nd?
They have enough of a majority to shut down debate now. And they did, when they wanted to. Cruz pre-approved a fun, education sideshow. He did it. It was impressive. It couldn't have been done before because they spent months debating ObamaCare already. And when it got close, they needed to pass it before the make-up of the Senate changed.

[tangent4ronpaul]

Bear in mind folks, Rand has no problem supporting him in this effort. That's good enough for me at this point. I just need more education on this process. I was of the understanding that this cloture vote this morning was the one we wanted republican senators to vote against.

Me too. I think they didn't go that route because the Dems seemed willing to negotiate and compromise due to the attention.

oh, and IIRC, LEE used to attend Ron's Thursday afternoon Liberty Caucus meetings.

-t

[RabbitMan]

When Rand did this it was fantastic

When Cruz does this everybody loses their minds.

:rolleyes:

I guess I just didn't see the point of it, but maybe I don't understand procedure in Congress. To my understanding, The Affordable Care Act has a positive opinion among Democrats, and a negative opinion among Republicans. Republicans have the House, Democrats have the Senate and Presidency. The Senate will not bow nor the President, so that prevents anything from getting done on this purely partisan issue in a 'reverse the law' kind of way.

So then, what does standing up there talking for 20 hours do if it isn't even a filibuster? Someone else mentioned something like that it draws attention to how the Senate will vote today. But if it is a purely partisan issue, and Democrats have the majority in the Senate, and it is associated with a Government Shutdown that is deeply unpopular on both sides of aisle, isn't all he is doing is firing up the Extreme Tea Party base while isolating them from the rest of the country and furthering the narrative that Republicans and Tea Partiers are lunatic obstructionists?

I just don't see the point, or the benefit, I guess. I'm willing to stand corrected, of course.

[ClydeCoulter]

@RabbitMan,

What Cruz was doing was teaching a bit of "Senate Procedure". See, McCain will vote against the bill once the amendment is added that funds ObamaCare, but he will support the precedures that will allow Reid to add the admendment to the bill to fund ObamaCare. It's called a "cover vote" in the language used by Ted Cruz.

And you're right, the Democrats will pass the amended bill (funding ObamaCare), which will go to the house and make the Republicans look bad if they don't pass it to fund the government. Ted Cruz wants daylight on the votes for cloture so that McCain, Graham, et al cannot get away with their "cover votes".

[ClydeCoulter]

Here's an article that helps to understand some of what is going on:

Tyranny in the United States Senate

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/06/tyranny-in-the-united-states-senate


Abstract: Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid has regularly used a procedural tactic called “filling the amendment tree” to restrict Senators’ right to debate and offer amendments. While previous Majority Leaders have occasionally used this tactic, Senator Reid has used this tactic often—more than all of his predecessors combined. This tactic combined with another parliamentary maneuver and demonization of the filibuster threatens to squelch dissent in the Senate and further constrict the national debate on important political issues. The Senate could better serve the American people by ending the use of this tactic.

[AuH20]

@RabbitMan,

What Cruz was doing was teaching a bit of "Senate Procedure". See, McCain will vote against the bill once the amendment is added that funds ObamaCare, but he will support the precedures that will allow Reid to add the admendment to the bill to fund ObamaCare. It's called a "cover vote" in the language used by Ted Cruz.

And you're right, the Democrats will pass the amended bill (funding ObamaCare), which will go to the house and make the Republicans look bad if they don't pass it to fund the government. Ted Cruz wants daylight on the votes for cloture so that McCain, Graham, et al cannot get away with their "cover votes".

Finally, someone who understands what this is about. This is one of the first shots of the coming Republican Civil War.

[rich34]

This whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. If it was Rand up there instead of Cruz, no one here would be shitting on such an epic speech/nonfillibuster. Rather phones would have been blowing up left and right in DC, people would be fired up proclaiming how such a mastermind Rand is and all that. But that's not would happened. Cruz was left hanging and those who he was standing up for turned on him...I still don't understand how such a response was warranted. There was nothing objectionable about anything he said.

It's because Cruz is doing this in hopes of elevating himself as Rand's real filibuster did for Rand... He's an opportunist laying the groundwork for bringing Rand down in the polls and I guess you're fine with that. Just as that fake poll bolstered Santorum two weeks before Iowa this little stunt will be the reason for Rand's drop in polling yet you watch and see it won't affect anyone else's polling numbers. This is why this whole thing is leaving a shit stained taste in my mouth. Way to go Ted! Thanks for setting up the narrative to bring Rand down in the polls!!!

And I can't believe many here are fine with it...

[ClydeCoulter]

It's because Cruz is doing this in hopes of elevating himself as Rand's real filibuster did for Rand... He's an opportunist laying the groundwork for bringing Rand down in the polls and I guess you're fine with that. Just as that fake poll bolstered Santorum two weeks before Iowa this little stunt will be the reason for Rand's drop in polling yet you watch and see it won't affect anyone else's polling numbers. This is why this whole thing is leaving a shit stained taste in my mouth. Way to go Ted! Thanks for setting up the narrative to bring Rand down in the polls!!!

And I can't believe many here are fine with it...

Did you read anything I posted? This is NOT a beauty contest, this is maneuvering of senate procedures and an "introduction to how the senate hides the votes and screws the public".

edit:
Please read this article:

Tyranny in the United States Senate

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/06/tyranny-in-the-united-states-senate

[Deborah K]

Finally, someone who understands what this is about. This is one of the first shots of the coming Republican Civil War.

Agreed. It will be a separating of the wheat from the chaff.

[VBRonPaulFan]

Did you read anything I posted? This is NOT a beauty contest, this is maneuvering of senate procedures and an "introduction to how the senate hides the votes and screws the public".

edit:
Please read this article:

Tyranny in the United States Senate

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/06/tyranny-in-the-united-states-senate

If that was his true intent, he did an absolutely piss poor job of conveying it.

The way everyone sees this, is that this is Cruz trying to stop Obamacare being funded. Not Cruz forcing RINO Senators to have their cowardly votes brought to light.

[Deborah K]

If that was his true intent, he did an absolutely piss poor job of conveying it.

The way everyone sees this, is that this is Cruz trying to stop Obamacare being funded. Not Cruz forcing RINO Senators to have their cowardly votes brought to light.

He's doing both things. He's attempting to beat the Dems at their own game as well.

[69360]

It's not working. The democrats control the senate and will vote party line. It is not possible to win this. Cruz is just showboating to appeal to the tea party people.

[torchbearer]

It is working, half the people on this forum thinks he legit.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It's not working. The democrats control the senate and will vote party line. It is not possible to win this. Cruz is just showboating to appeal to the tea party people.

Party line vote does not matter on the cloture vote. The GOP needs 41 "No" votes on cloture. That is what this was all about. How many times do you need to be told this??

[CaptLouAlbano]

It is working, half the people on this forum thinks he legit.

Rand and Amash apparently believe that as well, otherwise why did they show their support by their presence in the Senate Chamber? Both could have stayed home, but they did not.

[ClydeCoulter]

Rand and Amash apparently believe that as well, otherwise why did they show their support by their presence in the Senate Chamber? Both could have stayed home, but they did not.

I'm not sure when Amash left, but he was still there supporting Cruz when I went to bed at 3:00am ET last night.

[torchbearer]

Rand and Amash apparently believe that as well, otherwise why did they show their support by their presence in the Senate Chamber? Both could have stayed home, but they did not.

It is politically expedient to be apart of this theater act.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm not sure when Amash left, but he was there when I went to bed at 3:00am ET last night.

Not sure either. Goehmert was there the whole night from what I understand.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It is politically expedient to be apart of this theater act.

And how does that apply to Amash? He didn't get to speak. He was one of only a handful of House members that came on by. No camera time, only a mention or two at 2 am on CSpan2. Amash did not have to go. The benefits for his career are minimal at best - he chose to go in support of what Cruz is doing, and I believe tweeted about it a bit.

[69360]

It is working, half the people on this forum thinks he legit.

I though he was mostly good before his long speech. I think his long speech was stupid and pointless.


Party line vote does not matter on the cloture vote. The GOP needs 41 "No" votes on cloture. That is what this was all about. How many times do you need to be told this??

Wrong. Cruz wants to defund obamacare. That goal is not possible in a democratic senate. They can play procedural games all they want, shutdown the government and get average americans to hate them, but the democrats will never cave in on Obamacare.

[torchbearer]

And how does that apply to Amash? He didn't get to speak. He was one of only a handful of House members that came on by. No camera time, only a mention or two at 2 am on CSpan2. Amash did not have to go. The benefits for his career are minimal at best - he chose to go in support of what Cruz is doing, and I believe tweeted about it a bit.

amash has his eyes on a senate seat, maybe not for next election- but he has his eyes on that chamber.
more of a reason to be there for political theater.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Wrong. Cruz wants to defund obamacare. That goal is not possible in a democratic senate. They can play procedural games all they want, shutdown the government and get average americans to hate them, but the democrats will never cave in on Obamacare.

So is he to sit by and do nothing or is he to honor the promise he made to the voters of Texas that he would do everything he could to defund it? If they get the no votes on cloture, Reid cannot strip the bill and pass it with 51 votes. Yes it is procedural, but it is the move that they have to play right now. If the gov't shuts down over this then so be it. The media will spin this against the GOP regardless of how it turns out, so they have to take a stand on this. The damage this law will do to the economy and the health care industry may never be able to be undone.

[CaptLouAlbano]

amash has his eyes on a senate seat, maybe not for next election- but he has his eyes on that chamber.
more of a reason to be there for political theater.

So because he may run for a Senate seat sometime in the unforeseen future, he felt it was politically expedient to sit in the Senate Chamber at 3am? Do you stay up all night dreaming this stuff up?

Face it AMASH SUPPORTS AND RESPECTS TED CRUZ.

[torchbearer]

So because he may run for a Senate seat sometime in the unforeseen future, he felt it was politically expedient to sit in the Senate Chamber at 3am? Do you stay up all night dreaming this stuff up?

Face it AMASH SUPPORTS AND RESPECTS TED CRUZ.


right, amash wants boots on the ground in syria.
he supported this particular act of the play.

[ClydeCoulter]

amash has his eyes on a senate seat, maybe not for next election- but he has his eyes on that chamber.
more of a reason to be there for political theater.

To hell with theater, to hell with looking good, to hell with all of that. I want the right things done and I don't care who does it. Ted Cruz is doing the right thing right now, and I support it. If he later does the wrong thing I will oppose it.

[cajuncocoa]

It's not working. The democrats control the senate and will vote party line. It is not possible to win this. Cruz is just showboating to appeal to the tea party people.

wouldn't vote for the guy if he ran for POTUS, but I applaud what he's trying to do here. Heck, if Rand was doing this y'all would proclaim it GENIUS. And I would applaud Rand with you.

[69360]

So is he to sit by and do nothing or is he to honor the promise he made to the voters of Texas that he would do everything he could to defund it? If they get the no votes on cloture, Reid cannot strip the bill and pass it with 51 votes. Yes it is procedural, but it is the move that they have to play right now. If the gov't shuts down over this then so be it. The media will spin this against the GOP regardless of how it turns out, so they have to take a stand on this. The damage this law will do to the economy and the health care industry may never be able to be undone.

It doesn't matter if he gives a 20 hour speech or does nothing. There is not a damn thing that can be done with the current make up of the senate.

The democrats will just wait out a shutdown blaming the GOP in the media until the GOP caves, they are not giving up obamacare. This is simply not winnable.

[torchbearer]

To hell with theater, to hell with looking good, to hell with all of that. I want the right things done and I don't care who does it. Ted Cruz is doing the right thing right now, and I support it. If he later does the wrong thing I will oppose it.

that's just it... this act won't stop what is coming.
it won't matter. it didn't get the president to address anything. it didn't educate the public on a topic they knew little about...
it was taking a red meat issue- and creating theater.
obamacare, and the rest of the bloated government will be funded.

[69360]

wouldn't vote for the guy if he ran for POTUS, but I applaud what he's trying to do here. Heck, if Rand was doing this y'all would proclaim it GENIUS. And I would applaud Rand with you.

If Cruz beat Rand, I'd vote for Cruz in the general. He's way way better than Clinton or Biden.

[ClydeCoulter]

It doesn't matter if he gives a 20 hour speech or does nothing. There is not a damn thing that can be done with the current make up of the senate.

The democrats will just wait out a shutdown blaming the GOP in the media until the GOP caves, they are not giving up obamacare. This is simply not winnable.

The HOUSE is REPUBLICAN, and has as much power as the democrats have in the senate. NO Excuses. Defund ObamaCare Now! And, Ted Cruz's approach here is the right thing to do (no cover for the Republicans that want to fund ObamaCare).

[cajuncocoa]

If Cruz beat Rand, I'd vote for Cruz in the general. He's way way better than Clinton or Biden.

I figure he'll be about the same. Just as there was no difference between Obama and Romney/McCain.

[ClydeCoulter]

that's just it... this act won't stop what is coming.
it won't matter. it didn't get the president to address anything. it didn't educate the public on a topic they knew little about...
it was taking a red meat issue- and creating theater.
obamacare, and the rest of the bloated government will be funded.

It educated me.

I now understand how "cover votes" are made, how Republicans can help pass laws (with bad amendments) but vote against them. :mad:

So, it is working, for me. :)

[69360]

The HOUSE is REPUBLICAN, and has as much power as the democrats have in the senate. NO Excuses. Defund ObamaCare Now! And, Ted Cruz's approach here is the right thing to do (no cover for the Republicans that want to fund ObamaCare).

Doesn't matter. The democratic senate won't approve defunding obamacare. It's not possible to do now.


I figure he'll be about the same. Just as there was no difference between Obama and Romney/McCain.

I think Cruz is better than Romney and McCain. He's not perfect but he passes my 80% test.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It doesn't matter if he gives a 20 hour speech or does nothing. There is not a damn thing that can be done with the current make up of the senate.

The democrats will just wait out a shutdown blaming the GOP in the media until the GOP caves, they are not giving up obamacare. This is simply not winnable.

But you still need to fight, even when the chances of winning are nil.

[cajuncocoa]

Doesn't matter. The democratic senate won't approve defunding obamacare. It's not possible to do now.



I think Cruz is better than Romney and McCain. He's not perfect but he passes my 80% test.

No secret here, but you and I have different criteria....he doesn't pass mine. Heck, Rand barely does, but I'm giving him a pass because he really is the best/only chance.

[cajuncocoa]

But you still need to fight, even when the chances of winning are nil.

I find myself in rare agreement with you here. Alert the media.

[69360]

But you still need to fight, even when the chances of winning are nil.

Why expend your political capital on an unpopular shutdown? The average public HATES shutdowns. If there is a shutdown, Cruz will be blamed and his approval rating will tank with independents. It will haunt him and he will be unelectable in a general election either for president or re-election to the senate. Pick battles you can win.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I figure he'll be about the same. Just as there was no difference between Obama and Romney/McCain.

You obviously do not understand that the president signs legislation into law. As similar ideologically as Romney and Obama are, Romney would have at least signed GOP sponsored bills into law if they passed both houses, Audit the Fed for example. This whole issue today with the CR would look much different if Romney had the pen in hand rather than Obama.

[ClydeCoulter]

This issue can be turned around in different ways.

If the Republicans vote Yes on cloture to end debate then that will let Reid enter the amendment to fund ObamaCare without debate and only 51 votes (which he has) to get the House Bill amended. The Republicans will go quietly into the night on this if they vote Yes on cloture to end debate. BUT, the Republicans will say "We voted no on the amended bill".

Then, the senate version will go to the House and it will not contain defunding ObamaCare and will only fully fund government. So, the Republicans will look bad if they don't pass it.

[cajuncocoa]

You obviously do not understand that the president signs legislation into law. As similar ideologically as Romney and Obama are, Romney would have at least signed GOP sponsored bills into law if they passed both houses, Audit the Fed for example. This whole issue today with the CR would look much different if Romney had the pen in hand rather than Obama.Oh, I'm so glad you came here to educate me. If Romney was President we'd probably be fighting in Syria right now, because the usual warmongers would have been gung-ho on it...with Obama in the WH, they had to oppose it. I stand by what I said.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Why expend your political capital on an unpopular shutdown? The average public HATES shutdowns. If there is a shutdown, Cruz will be blamed and his approval rating will tank with independents. It will haunt him and he will be unelectable in a general election either for president or re-election to the senate. Pick battles you can win.

Shut it down - nothing will happen for the average person. It's all hype, just like the sequester. There are bills sitting in the Senate to fund "essential" services and personnel.

[jj-]

I'm shocked by the amount of blind people in this thread who can't realize the point of what Cruz is doing. He is making it easier to defeat in a primary people who vote for this. Once a critical number is reached in the House or the Senate, defunding can be done. He is making sure that after the next election that number increases. Cornyn and McConnell might lose because of this filibuster. Same thing with others in the House. RabbitMan, 63690, how can you be so blind?

[CaptLouAlbano]

Oh, I'm so glad you came here to educate me. If Romney was President we'd probably be fighting in Syria right now, because the usual warmongers would have been gung-ho on it...with Obama in the WH, they had to oppose it. I stand by what I said.


Constituents were overwhelmingly against Syrian intervention, both in red & blue CD's. If it went to the House it would have failed regardless of who was in the White House.

[jj-]

Wrong. Cruz wants to defund obamacare. That goal is not possible in a democratic senate. They can play procedural games all they want, shutdown the government and get average americans to hate them, but the democrats will never cave in on Obamacare.

The democrats will just wait for 2 years, and let the government be closed for 2 years? That would be fine with me and I'll consider it a victory.

[cajuncocoa]

Why expend your political capital on an unpopular shutdown? The average public HATES shutdowns. If there is a shutdown, Cruz will be blamed and his approval rating will tank with independents. It will haunt him and he will be unelectable in a general election either for president or re-election to the senate. Pick battles you can win.

Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity and Levin will have his back, and all will be OK. Those who oppose him who don't listen to those idiots probably wouldn't have voted for him anyway.

[cajuncocoa]

Constituents were overwhelmingly against Syrian intervention, both in red & blue CD's. If it went to the House it would have failed regardless of who was in the White House.

Uh, yeah...because the people they listen to TOLD them how to think. Don't you understand low-info voters by now? If Hannity opposes it, they will too.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Uh, yeah...because the people they listen to TOLD them how to think. Don't you understand low-info voters by now? If Hannity opposes it, they will too.

I said red and blue CD's - it was across the board. I don't think people in Pelosi's CD are big Hannity fans.

Your fear of the talk radio folks is really bordering on paranoia. Yes, they have influence, but in many ways they are parroting the mood of the voters. Why do you think Rush is all "anti-establishment" lately? It is because the listeners are, so he reflects that.

It's a shame that you seem to have this view that average Americans are morons as though you are somewhat enlightened.

[cajuncocoa]

I said red and blue CD's - it was across the board. I don't think people in Pelosi's CD are big Hannity fans.

People in Pelosi's CD are always antiwar. It's the red CD's that would have polled differently if a Republican was in the WH.

[CaptLouAlbano]

People in Pelosi's CD are always antiwar. It's the red CD's that would have polled differently if a Republican was in the WH.

Pelosi was just an example. It was across the board Cajun. CD after CD - but really it is a moot point anyway.

[cajuncocoa]

Pelosi was just an example. It was across the board Cajun. CD after CD - but really it is a moot point anyway.

No, it's not a moot point, and I understand that you said it was across the board...AND that Pelosi's CD was an example. But the traditionally blue CDs would traditionally oppose war; the red ones would traditionally support it. But THIS time, the usual warmongers (Beck, Hannity, etc.) came out in opposition to the conflict BECAUSE OBAMA IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. Hence, low-info voters in the red CDs polled as the talk radio jocks told them to.

The left/right paradigm is so yesterday. There is not much difference between politicians on either side.

[CaptLouAlbano]

No, it's not a moot point, and I understand that you said it was across the board...AND that Pelosi's CD was an example. But the traditionally blue CDs would traditionally oppose war; the red ones would traditionally support it. But THIS time, the usual warmongers (Beck, Hannity, etc.) came out in opposition to the conflict BECAUSE OBAMA IS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. Hence, low-info voters in the red CDs polled as the talk radio jocks told them to.

The left/right paradigm is so yesterday. There is not much difference between politicians on either side.

Blue CD's did not oppose Kosovo intervention when Clinton was in office.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Cruz is setting up the table for primary challenges. That's the beauty of this stunt. Vote for Reid's editing vote and face hell going forward.

He's certainly outing the squish republicans. I'm all for that.

[Bastiat's The Law]

@RabbitMan,

What Cruz was doing was teaching a bit of "Senate Procedure". See, McCain will vote against the bill once the amendment is added that funds ObamaCare, but he will support the precedures that will allow Reid to add the admendment to the bill to fund ObamaCare. It's called a "cover vote" in the language used by Ted Cruz.

And you're right, the Democrats will pass the amended bill (funding ObamaCare), which will go to the house and make the Republicans look bad if they don't pass it to fund the government. Ted Cruz wants daylight on the votes for cloture so that McCain, Graham, et al cannot get away with their "cover votes".

Great point! Out the squishes!

[cajuncocoa]

Blue CD's did not oppose Kosovo intervention when Clinton was in office. Because they wanted Monica Lewinsky off of the front page. Team Blue was anxious to do that by any means necessary.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Finally, someone who understands what this is about. This is one of the first shots of the coming Republican Civil War.

This is correct. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

[YesI'mALiberal]

Great point! Out the squishes!

...While Squish joined Cruz in his 21-hour talkathon -- which outlasted (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/rand-paul-filibuster_n_2819740.html)Squish's 13-hour talking filibuster (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/rand-paul-filibuster_n_2819740.html) earlier this year -- the senator from the Bluegrass State conceded Wednesday afternoon that the Senate should no longer delay sending a revised continuing resolution to the House GOP leaders, who will only have one day to pass the measure in order to avert a government shutdown.

"We've spent a lot of time on this, and it's time to vote," Squish said. "I think the sooner we're done with this, the better chance we have of not having the government shut down."

"I think it's presumptuous of me to tell the House what to do, but I think the goal of everybody should be to try to do something right and at the same time not shut down the government," Squish added.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?428674-Rand-Paul-It-s-time-to-vote

[69360]

Shut it down - nothing will happen for the average person. It's all hype, just like the sequester. There are bills sitting in the Senate to fund "essential" services and personnel.

Doesn't matter, the tube will tell them the world is ending because Ted Cruz shut down the government.


I'm shocked by the amount of blind people in this thread who can't realize the point of what Cruz is doing. He is making it easier to defeat in a primary people who vote for this. Once a critical number is reached in the House or the Senate, defunding can be done. He is making sure that after the next election that number increases. Cornyn and McConnell might lose because of this filibuster. Same thing with others in the House. RabbitMan, 63690, how can you be so blind?

If he gets himself blamed for a shutdown, he just ruined his own chances in another election.

Don't believe me? Look at the aftermath of the last shutdown. Clinton got re elected, Gingrich was banished.

[ClydeCoulter]

Doesn't matter, the tube will tell them the world is ending because Ted Cruz shut down the government.



If he gets himself blamed for a shutdown, he just ruined his own chances in another election.

Don't believe me? Look at the aftermath of the last shutdown. Clinton got re elected, Gingrich was banished.

It is going to require some people to step up when they have a voice. Then, we need to support those sane voices with everything we can do.

Otherwise, just shut up and let the MSM do the talking.

[austin944]

If he gets himself blamed for a shutdown, he just ruined his own chances in another election.

Don't believe me? Look at the aftermath of the last shutdown. Clinton got re elected, Gingrich was banished.

Do you think Cruz should do what's popular to get elected, or the right thing, even if it means losing an election?

On the one hand people say "he's just show-boating" for attention and popularity, and then on the other hand say his tactics are going to make him unpopular.

[69360]

It is going to require some people to step up when they have a voice. Then, we need to support those sane voices with everything we can do.

Otherwise, just shut up and let the MSM do the talking.

I'd support Cruz if he won a GOP primary, he's ok. I just think this was pointless.


Do you think Cruz should do what's popular to get elected, or the right thing, even if it means losing an election?

On the one hand people say "he's just show-boating" for attention and popularity, and then on the other hand say his tactics are going to make him unpopular.

This will make him popular with the GOP base, but unpopular with non-partisan, non-political average people if he gets blamed for a shutdown.

So both.

[jj-]

I'd support Cruz if he won a GOP primary, he's ok. I just think this was pointless.

You think making McConnell's and Cornyn's primaries harder for them is pointless. So you actually think the bailout was a good idea and they shouldn't be punished. What are you doing here then?

[Brett85]

Does anyone really think that Cruz would even be remotely electable in a general election with the style that he has? This type of thing might make it more likely for Cruz to win the GOP nomination, but what's the point of winning the GOP nomination if you can't win a general election?

[AuH20]

Does anyone really think that Cruz would even be remotely electable in a general election with the style that he has? This type of thing might make it more likely for Cruz to win the GOP nomination, but what's the point of winning the GOP nomination if you can't win a general election?

Who cares? We need a hammer to scare these bastards straight. He serves a crucial role.

[Brett85]

Who cares? We need a hammer to scare these bastards straight. He serves a crucial role.

Perhaps, but I think Rand is probably smart to just vote with Cruz on this but not actually be the spokesman for this particular idea.

[jj-]

Does anyone really think that Cruz would even be remotely electable in a general election with the style that he has? This type of thing might make it more likely for Cruz to win the GOP nomination, but what's the point of winning the GOP nomination if you can't win a general election?

He is doing something bigger than winning a general election. He is trying to revive the power of the purse the House is supposed to have. That change will be more significant than being elected President. You should've listened to Mike Lee and Ted Cruz yesterday. They were arguing that it should be normal that the House every year decides one by one what things to fund or not to fund, not let something be funded just because it was created.

[ClydeCoulter]

He is doing something bigger than winning a general election. He is trying to revive the power of the purse the House is supposed to have. That change will be more significant than being elected President. You should've listened to Mike Lee and Ted Cruz yesterday. They were arguing that it should be normal that the House every year decides one by one what things to fund or not to fund, not let something be funded just because it was created.

^^^ THIS ^^^

And, the whole senate procedural education is absolutely beautiful!

This is right up there with why to "Audit the Fed"!

[AuH20]

Thank You, Ted Cruz.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/meltdown-gop-bosses-phones-unplugged/

[ClydeCoulter]

Thank You, Ted Cruz.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/meltdown-gop-bosses-phones-unplugged/

Makes uh me so happy. I'm a gonna have some cheese:D

[Brett85]

He is doing something bigger than winning a general election. He is trying to revive the power of the purse the House is supposed to have. That change will be more significant than being elected President. You should've listened to Mike Lee and Ted Cruz yesterday. They were arguing that it should be normal that the House every year decides one by one what things to fund or not to fund, not let something be funded just because it was created.

I still think he's doing a lot of this to benefit himself for a Presidential run in 2016. He knows this kind of thing will help him win the GOP primary. I don't think there's any way he's not going to run for President after this.

[1836er]

Wow, here's a piece that I think precisely sums up both the stakes and puts Cruz's efforts vs. the pretend assumptions of the GOP into better perspective.

http://pjmedia.com/andrewmccarthy/2013/09/25/whats-gop-establishment-strategy-against-obamacare/?print=1