Filibuster the House CR? Cruz, Other Conservatives Say 'Yes'

[CaseyJones]

http://www3.blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/filibuster-the-house-cr-some-conservatives-say-yes/


Sen. Ted Cruz said Friday that Republican senators should, in effect, filibuster the House-passed continuing resolution in the Senate.

The Texas Republican is calling on his colleagues to oppose limiting debate on it, warning against what he calls procedural trickery.

“Step two is the Senate, where all accounts suggest Harry Reid plans to use procedural gimmicks to try to add funding back in for Obamacare,” Cruz said. “If Reid pursues this plan — if he insists on using a 50-vote threshold to fund Obamacare with a partisan vote of only Democrats — then I hope that every Senate Republican will stand together and oppose cloture on the bill in order to keep the House bill intact and not let Harry Reid add Obamacare funding back in.”

“Now is a time for party unity; Senate Republicans should stand side-by-side with courageous House Republicans,” Cruz said.

[JCDenton0451]

This is terrible publicity for the Republican party. Republicans filibustering Republican resolution? Low-information voters simply won't undertand that. Cruz and everyone who follows him will look extremely foolish.

[anaconda]

This is terrible publicity for the Republican party. Republicans filibustering Republican resolution? Low-information voters simply won't undertand that. Cruz and everyone who follows him will look extremely foolish.

I don't follow you. They are two separate chambers with two different bills. A filibuster in the Senate is only that. The most powerful tactic in the Senate appears to be disallowing cloture. I would be shitting bricks if I were Harry Reid.

UPDATE: I was confused in this post^

[rich34]

I know this is Rand's forum, but I thought it should go here.

I wonder if after his appearance on Hannity the other night with Mike Lee, where Lee looked like Ron Paul at a debate is the start of a new media strategy to attempt to push Cruz up the polls? Of course while doing this they can create the narrative that Cruz is taking away points from Rand which would provide them cover for Rand dropping in the polls at the same time pushing their favorite neocon for the moment to the front. I know it's a little early to be making this statement, but after following Ron all these years and how they did him you can kinda see their agenda as it starts happening.

As for Ted, I get the feeling he's being pressured to do "something" in an attempt to create some sort of buzz around him to push his name out there which would go with the above statement to also provide the media/pollsters cover for his magic rise in the polls while also providing cover for the new narrative that this is why Rand's numbers are going down. The guy is a snake, and really that's not even the word to describe him. Attempting to position himself in between McCain and Paul on foreign policy and now playing this card in hopes of recreating the effect that Rand got while doing his filibuster on drones. His/n handlers bet is that this will play that much more to his advantage since this issue is more to the heart of "conservatives." Again providing the cover the pollsters need to bring Rand's numbers down. I know I may be getting a little excited, but I can't stomach this guy whatsoever. After watching him on Hannity and how that interview went giving the appearance that he's "the guy" because Lee got very little speaking time while Ted appeared as the leader there should not be any doubt of his intentions at running for president in 2016. I'm sorry, but the guy is a creep, looks artificial(vampire like), sounds artificial, and is trying to ride Rand's coattails long enough to position himself as the next nominee for the republican party.

I'll quit before I piss off the "Ted is on our side" crowd. I just wanted to point out what I think is getting ready to happen in the polls. They saw it worked for Rand and whether it really works for Ted or not, they'll create it, like they did Santorum's magic rise two weeks before the Iowa Caucus going from single digits to the front. I hope I'm wrong, but they are not very creative. On the contrary, they telegraph everything.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Something about that big, blaring headline followed by a question mark seems amusing.

[JCDenton0451]

This scheme is going backfire against Cruz in a big way. I don't envy the dude.

[enhanced_deficit]

If Dems tied SWCcare to increase in military sepending to invade Iran, Cruz probably wil vote for it.

[JK/SEA]

Lets wait and see what happens. I'm thinking no filibuster....

Yes, i agree...Cruz is a loose cannon for me at this point, but i'm not ready to deep six him to Glenn Beck depths just yet.

[JCDenton0451]

As I understand it there is only a House bill, passed with Republican support. Cruz and co will have to filibuster this bill. Otherwise, Reid will amend it to include funding for Obamacare, and pass with a simple majority vote.

Ted Cruz will filibuster against a House CR, that defunds Obamacare. In effect, he will force a government shutdown, assuming he can find enough Republicans to vote against cloture.

[tsai3904]

I don't follow you. They are two separate chambers with two different bills. A filibuster in the Senate is only that. The most powerful tactic in the Senate appears to be disallowing cloture. I would be shitting bricks if I were Harry Reid.

There's one bill. Reid is going to take the House passed CR, invoke cloture (needs 60 votes) then amend the CR to take out defunding Obamacare with only 51 votes.

Cruz doesn't want Reid to amend the CR with only 51 votes so he wants to filibuster but I fail to see what the end goal of that is because he'll be essentially preventing the Senate from voting on the House passed CR that defunds Obamacare.

[JCDenton0451]

Cruz doesn't want Reid to amend the CR with only 51 votes so he wants to filibuster but I fail to see what the end goal of that is because he'll be essentially preventing the Senate from voting on the House passed CR that defunds Obamacare.

Yeah, Cruz is acting like a leftist caricature of a Republican, essentially forcing gridlock. He is uncomromising and he is stupid.

[anaconda]

As I understand it there is only a House bill, passed with Republican support. Cruz and co will have to filibuster this bill. Otherwise, Reid will amend it to include funding for Obamacare, and pass with a simple majority vote.


Ah ha! Thank you for the civics lesson. I thought the Senate independently created something. But I guess that wouldn't make sense where appropriations are concerned.

[fearthereaperx]

Lets wait and see what happens. I'm thinking no filibuster....

Yes, i agree...Cruz is a loose cannon for me at this point, but i'm not ready to deep six him to Glenn Beck depths just yet.

I doubt it, come out strong when your negotiating. Hopefully, this will lead to a delay in Obamacare for another year.

[anaconda]

There's one bill. Reid is going to take the House passed CR, invoke cloture (needs 60 votes) then amend the CR to take out defunding Obamacare with only 51 votes.

Cruz doesn't want Reid to amend the CR with only 51 votes so he wants to filibuster but I fail to see what the end goal of that is because he'll be essentially preventing the Senate from voting on the House passed CR that defunds Obamacare.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry for being so dense. So, then, I have to ask, why not let Reid remove the defund language and then simply filibuster that bill? This would also seem to be a direct fight against funding. No? Or once they start amending does everything go to simple majority? Or something?

[TaftFan]

Rand needs to filibuster a Yelen confirmation.

[tsai3904]

Thanks for clarifying. I'm sorry for being so dense. So, then, I have to ask, why not let Reid remove the defund language and then simply filibuster that bill? This would also seem to be a direct fight against funding. No? Or once they start amending does everything go to simple majority? Or something?

Reid will probably file cloture once he receives the House passed CR. If he gets 60 votes to invoke cloture, then debate time is limited to 30 hours regardless of what amendments pass. There's no more filibustering afterwards. There are ways to require a 3/5 vote to pass an amendment but I'm not sure exactly how that works.

[tangent4ronpaul]

This is a weird rabbit hole to fall down in...

So there are two options: Defund and shutdown the government or defund and shutdown Obamacare.

Isn't Obamacare part of the government? Wouldn't defunding the gvmt also defund Obamacare?

According to one news report, apparently not. They said implementing Obamacare was "an essential government service" that would be exempt, for the most part, from a government shutdown. Other "sessential government services" that would not be effected include: the military (but military service members would not be paid for 2+ months till it's all sorted out), the DoJ, the Intel community, food inspectors, air traffic controllers and the TSA. Oh, welfare and SS and Medicaid/Medicare would still go on.

Things we would loose: access to national parks, passport services federal museums, etc.

I remember the last time this happened. No one noticed the gvmt shut down, except a few people who had their vacations ruined and the federal workers that suddenly found themselves on an unscheduled, extended, unpaid vacation.

So what is so "essential" about implementing Obamacare?

-t

[rich34]

Something about that big, blaring headline followed by a question mark seems amusing.

I just posted what was on drudge as the headline. Copied and pasted actually for those that might not go there. All CAPS wasn't my idea, just trying to give the reader the same feel that drudge is trying to push.

[anaconda]

Reid will probably file cloture once he receives the House passed CR. If he gets 60 votes to invoke cloture, then debate time is limited to 30 hours regardless of what amendments pass. There's no more filibustering afterwards. There are ways to require a 3/5 vote to pass an amendment but I'm not sure exactly how that works.


OK so then why not simply filibuster the Senate-adjusted bill?

[tsai3904]

OK so then why not simply filibuster the Senate-adjusted bill?

In my explanation where I say "If he gets 60 votes to invoke cloture", Reid needs to get 60 votes because of a filibuster. Once cloture is invoked by getting 60 votes, the filibuster is defeated and debate time is limited to 30 hours.

This is how it will probably play out: Reid gets House CR, Cruz filibusters, Reid gets 60 votes to invoke cloture (filibuster defeated), debate on CR is limited to 30 hours, amendment to restore Obamacare passes with 51 votes, CR with Obamacare passes with 51 votes, then CR gets sent back to House.

[supermario21]

I'll say this. Rand actually filibusters to try and make a difference with policy. Cruz just seems to be promoting himself with these dumb publicity stunts. I'm all for defunding Obamacare and what not, but it's not going anywhere. I think Rand has said have the House pass something which defunds it (today) and the Senate passes something that does fund it, and work it out in conference and go from there...

[anaconda]

In my explanation where I say "If he gets 60 votes to invoke cloture", Reid needs to get 60 votes because of a filibuster. Once cloture is invoked by getting 60 votes, the filibuster is defeated and debate time is limited to 30 hours.

This is how it will probably play out: Reid gets House CR, Cruz filibusters, Reid gets 60 votes to invoke cloture (filibuster defeated), debate on CR is limited to 30 hours, amendment to restore Obamacare passes with 51 votes, CR with Obamacare passes with 51 votes, then CR gets sent back to House.

But wouldn't this open up all kinds of potential abuse in the legislating process? What if cloture passes with 60 votes on some non-controversial bill and then suddenly the majority party starts throwing in outrageous amendments to the extent the the original non-controversial bill is suddenly the most partisan lopsided and most controversial piece of legislation in U.S. history? If I am understanding you correctly, this hypothetical crazy bill would only need 51 votes to become law?

[CaseyJones]

threads merged

[tangent4ronpaul]

Are you sure Reid has 60 votes?

This has been going down along party lines with few defections.
The majority (dems) have 52 votes + 2 independent votes, for 54 total. They would need no defections from their ranks and gain 6 republican defections. That's not likely to happen.

There are also 3-5 dems in conservative that are likely to defect if they want to win re-election.

The dems could still win a 50% vote if they lost 3 members, but winning a 60% vote? - not likely.

Rand is likely in for another case of laryngitis...

-t


-t

[tsai3904]

But wouldn't this open up all kinds of potential abuse in the legislating process? What if cloture passes with 60 votes on some non-controversial bill and then suddenly the majority party starts throwing in outrageous amendments to the extent the the original non-controversial bill is suddenly the most partisan lopsided and most controversial piece of legislation in U.S. history? If I am understanding you correctly, this hypothetical crazy bill would only need 51 votes to become law?

When cloture is invoked, only amendments that are germane to the bill can be offered.

[tsai3904]

Are you sure Reid has 60 votes?

If the vote is to whether to debate the House passed CR, then yea, he'll have 60 votes. Why would a Republican Senator not want to proceed to debating the House CR? This is why I'm not understanding this Cruz filibuster talk unless Cruz wants his filibuster threat to get a gentlemans agreement that Reid wont introduce an amendment requiring only 51 votes to restore Obamacare.

[anaconda]

When cloture is invoked, only amendments that are germane to the bill can be offered.

But who decides what is germane? And, aren't completely unrelated riders thrown in literally all the time in bills? Didn't Rand have life begins at conception thing tossed onto a debt ceiling vote or something like that?

[anaconda]

If the vote is to whether to debate the House passed CR, then yea, he'll have 60 votes. Why would a Republican Senator not want to proceed to debating the House CR? This is why I'm not understanding this Cruz filibuster talk unless Cruz wants his filibuster threat to get a gentlemans agreement that Reid wont introduce an amendment requiring only 51 votes to restore Obamacare.

This is what my meager brain and marginal knowledge makes of it. Cruz completely paralyzes the Democratically controlled Senate from making any legislative move whatsoever, and forcing the threat of a government shutdown. And then playing chicken for up-front compromises from Reid.

[tsai3904]

But who decides what is germane? And, aren't completely unrelated riders thrown in literally all the time in bills? Didn't Rand have life begins at conception thing tossed onto a debt ceiling vote or something like that?

I think the Presiding Officer (the guy who sits at the head of the chamber) decides it with the help of parliamentarians. The germane amendments are only required on bills where cloture has been invoked.