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ObiRandKenobi
09-18-2013, 11:45 AM
pretty sure it includes high-tech from india but fair question



Reacting to a New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/18/us/median-income-and-poverty-rate-hold-steady-census-bureau-finds.html?_r=0) which found Asian-Americans earn more than African-Americans or Hispanics, El Rushbo wonders how it could be that Asians are succeeding in America– despite being put in internment camps by FDR, and without the help of an Asian Al Sharpton or an AAACP…



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs5U3RxvlTQ

h/t MP (http://www.mofopolitics.com/2013/09/18/rush-limbaugh-how-are-asian-americans-succeeding-without-the-help-of-an-asian-al-sharpton/)

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 11:55 AM
This map refers to the average IQ of indigenous populations. Mongoloid Asians have the highest average IQ, Africans and Australian aborigines have the lowest.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png

Rothbardian Girl
09-18-2013, 12:09 PM
Holy over-generalization thread batman. Admittedly, I did not listen to the link (mostly because I can't stand Rush Limbaugh's voice), but something tells me there is no discussion of specific groups of Asian-Americans. I guess we're not counting pretty much all of southeast Asia and the Philippines. Immigrants from those countries face a slightly higher poverty rate than non-Hispanic whites.

Looks like we have some pundits glossing over real issues again. And of course, where would this thread be without that ridiculous map ^^^^ making a token appearance?

VIDEODROME
09-18-2013, 12:20 PM
Are Asian Americans as likely to be profiled by Law Enforcement?

Is it possible that the Justice system in this country and the Courts have done a lot of cumulative damage to African Americans throwing the book at them and getting them to plea to a lesser charge?

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Looks like we have some pundits glossing over real issues again. And of course, where would this thread be without that ridiculous map ^^^^ making a token appearance?

What makes this map ridiculous?:rolleyes:


I guess we're not counting pretty much all of southeast Asia and the Philippines. Immigrants from those countries face a slightly higher poverty rate than non-Hispanic whites.

You might want to take a closer look at the map. It actually explains this thing.

Demigod
09-18-2013, 12:30 PM
Azerbejan,Kazakhstan and the other turk - ethnic countries all have 100 and the Turks somehow have 85-90 which makes no logic when they belong to the same ethnic group.

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 12:38 PM
Azerbejan,Kazakhstan and the other turk - ethnic countries all have 100 and the Turks somehow have 85-90 which makes no logic when they belong to the same ethnic group.

Different ethnic groups. Turkic peoples (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples) is a language family, not a single ethnic group.

juleswin
09-18-2013, 12:41 PM
Azerbejan,Kazakhstan and the other turk - ethnic countries all have 100 and the Turks somehow have 85-90 which makes no logic when they belong to the same ethnic group.

And Lesotho just sitting in the middle of 70+ IQ countries when they are all the same tribe. I really think that IQ has more to do with culture, diet, personal effort when someone is young, not saying a monkey can achieve 100 IQ if it tried, so genetics plays a role but I seriously doubt it plays that much role when you have people with virtually the same genetic line having very different IQ averages.

Demigod
09-18-2013, 12:56 PM
And Lesotho just sitting in the middle of 70+ IQ countries when they are all the same tribe. I really think that IQ has more to do with culture, diet, personal effort when someone is young, not saying a monkey can achieve 100 IQ if it tried, so genetics plays a role but I seriously doubt it plays that much role when you have people with virtually the same genetic line having very different IQ averages.

I think that culture/history and region are the most important things because they frame how the mind should work.I do not consider Asians in no way more intelligent ( i could even say that they are not that smart ) but they are ruthless,they will work and do anything to succeed no mater what it is in their culture .That is why they are successful in general.

Germanic people want to improve them self's and do a better job + they tend to function very well as a group.

Slavic people are the kings of improvisation.Everything we do is improvisation and patch up work but the people are hard and tend to be self reliant.

Every culture has its strong sides and its weak sides. Socialism to an extent works for the germanic people because it plays on their strong sides,it failed miserably for the Slavic people because it only strengthened are vices.

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 12:57 PM
We know, unless you're a fundamentalist Christian, we know from experience that intelligence is a heritable quality, which means it's coded somewhere in the DNA. The common approach among the scientists is to view human intelligence as being influnced by some sort of combination of "nature" and "nurture", and it makes sense. However, having intelligent biological parents, other things equal, should always give you an edge.

Children of Asian and Mexican parents attend the same public schools in California, achieve very different life outcomes.

Rothbardian Girl
09-18-2013, 12:57 PM
What makes this map ridiculous?:rolleyes:
You might want to take a closer look at the map. It actually explains this thing.

So... what you're essentially telling me is this:
1) IQ is the sole determinant of a person's fortunes in life.
2) IQ is a totally objective and foolproof way of determining someone's smarts. (Hint: it's not. (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/12/17/071217crbo_books_gladwell?printable=true))

Besides, the map doesn't really tell me anything important. So I'm supposed to conclude people in Botswana are mentally disabled because Botswana's indigenous peoples (a group whose makeup is itself composed of many ethnic groups.. how did they determine that IQ figure? Just averaging everyone together?) are mentally disabled? This map also assumes that ethnic groups fit neatly within imaginary lines... and didn't migrate... at all.

As an aside, if you're trying to allude to the chaotic states of many of these countries and linking that to IQ, you're ignoring how tyrannical governments generally lead to chaos, not IQ levels. Mugabe didn't get where he is today by being a total idiot. IQ fails to account for changes in types of thinking; it's a measure of modernity, not of smarts. From your own map, Botswana should have the worst-functioning government in Africa, but it's actually relatively stable.

Demigod
09-18-2013, 01:00 PM
We know, unless you're a fundamentalist Christian, we know from experience that intelligence is a heritable quality, which means it's coded somewhere in the DNA. The common approach among the scientists is to view human intelligence as being influnced by some sort of combination of "nature" and "nurture", and it makes sense. However, having intelligent biological parents, other things equal, should always give you an edge.

Children of Asian and Mexican parents attend the same public schools in California, achieve very different life outcomes.

That is 70% personal habits and 30% culture it has nothing to do with ethnicity.I have known a lot of guys that were smart and did not do anything with their life's while some people who I have thought were truly intellectually inferior became something just by hard work 24/7/365

RonPaulFanInGA
09-18-2013, 01:07 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png

Finally, Australia's gun control explained.

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 01:49 PM
So... what you're essentially telling me is this:
1) IQ is the sole determinant of a person's fortunes in life. IQ is a measure of intelligence, and intelligence is a major determinant. The US is a meritocratic society. There is a statistically significant correlation between IQ and income.

2) IQ is a totally objective and foolproof way of determining someone's smarts. (Hint: it's not. (http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2007/12/17/071217crbo_books_gladwell?printable=true))Are you seriously asking me to read an article from the New Yorker? Please.:rolleyes:

The left claims that IQ test is somehow culturally biased against the African-Americans, and should be dismissed for this reason. But they never explain exactly what makes it biased. That's all BS, obviously. They deny any relationship between race/ethnicity and intelligence for political reasons. It disrupts their "post-racial" multi-culti utopia.

Rothbardian Girl
09-18-2013, 02:00 PM
IQ is a measure of intelligence, and intelligence is a major determinant. The US is a meritocratic society. There is a statistically significant correlation between IQ and income. Are you seriously asking me to read an article from the New Yorker? Please.:rolleyes:

The left claims that IQ test is somehow culturally biased against the African-Americans, and should be dismissed for this reason. But they never explain exactly what makes it biased. That's all BS, obviously. They deny any relationship between race/ethnicity and intelligence for political reasons. It disrupts their "post-racial" multi-culti utopia.

Yet the article's main point has to do with predominately white societies. Two short paragraphs in:
And, if we go back even farther, the Flynn effect puts the average I.Q.s of the schoolchildren of 1900 at around 70, which is to suggest, bizarrely, that a century ago the United States was populated largely by people who today would be considered mentally retarded.

The change has to do with increased emphasis on abstract thinking, versus the rote memorization that was often involved in education in that period.

As for your "meritocratic society" 'point', that view is largely divorced from reality at this point. Even among groups that traditionally have access to better opportunities, being the best, by itself, doesn't cut it anymore in a lot of areas.

Tywysog Cymru
09-18-2013, 02:09 PM
The left claims that IQ test is somehow culturally biased against the African-Americans, and should be dismissed for this reason. But they never explain exactly what makes it biased. That's all BS, obviously. They deny any relationship between race/ethnicity and intelligence for political reasons. It disrupts their "post-racial" multi-culti utopia.

High poverty, history of discrimination, slavery, and exploitation generally leads being intellectually disadvantaged. I've known many intelligent Blacks/Hispanics and plenty dumb whites and vice versa.

JCDenton0451
09-18-2013, 02:47 PM
Yet the article's main point has to do with predominately white societies. Two short paragraphs in:

The change has to do with increased emphasis on abstract thinking, versus the rote memorization that was often involved in education in that period.

As for your "meritocratic society" 'point', that view is largely divorced from reality at this point. Even among groups that traditionally have access to better opportunities, being the best, by itself, doesn't cut it anymore in a lot of areas.

Ok, I had to google "Flynn effect" to find out that it means, and it turns out Flynn effect has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we're discussing: race and intelligence. So, I'm not sure what your point is...

It may well be true that average IQ scores in the US have increased over time, but how do you explain the fact that the gaps between different racial/ethnic groups remained largely the same? And that's despite all the Great Society programs and massive investments in public school education.

Demigod
09-18-2013, 02:54 PM
Ok, I had to google "Flynn effect" to find out that it means, and it turns out Flynn effect has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we're discussing: race and intelligence. So, I'm not sure what your point is...

It may well be true that average IQ scores in the US have increased over time, but how do you explain the fact that the gaps between different racial/ethnic groups remained largely the same? And that's despite all the Great Society programs and massive investments in public school education.

Culture and the system

The system is playing on their vices instead of their strengths,also they generally lack the kind of group work culture and tend to be into more individualistic/improvising work the problem being they aren't really good at it.

Snew
09-18-2013, 03:02 PM
so much collectivism in this thread...

Rothbardian Girl
09-18-2013, 03:11 PM
Ok, I had to google "Flynn effect" to find out that it means, and it turns out Flynn effect has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic we're discussing: race and intelligence. So, I'm not sure what your point is...

It may well be true that average IQ scores in the US have increased over time, but how do you explain the fact that the gaps between different racial/ethnic groups remained largely the same? And that's despite all the Great Society programs and massive investments in public school education.

The Flynn effect helps explain from at least one perspective why IQ is flawed as the end-all, be-all measure of intelligence. There is also interesting evidence that suggests IQ is flawed from a cultural standpoint as well, as others in this thread are arguing, but the Flynn effect is more easily quantifiable. If you had actually read the article instead of dismissing it as just more liberal quackery, maybe you'd be aware of that. The quote I provided isn't exactly disingenuous about that... I don't know if you're deliberately arguing past me, or if you just can't read properly.

I'm not necessarily interested in gaps or disparities between ethnic groups, because IQ as a measure is fatally flawed to begin with. Why aren't you wondering why schoolchildren in 1900 seem retarded (to use the un-PC word) compared to today's children?

Danke
09-18-2013, 03:13 PM
so much collectivism in this thread...

Collectivism, or stereotyping?

Original_Intent
09-18-2013, 03:17 PM
Hate to break it to el Rushbo, but it would be the NAAAP, not the AAACP - what does he think the N stands for the "n" word or something? :D

Brian4Liberty
09-18-2013, 03:30 PM
Well, this thread derailed fast.

As a gross generalization, Hispanic workers have been brought into the US to reduce blue collar labor costs. Asians have been brought to undercut white collar labor costs. All the while, the money machine keeps creating money every day, yet there is no price inflation in the cost of labor. It must be magic.

Acala
09-18-2013, 04:45 PM
I am willing to step into the role of the Asian Al Sharpton. It is true that I am not Asian, but I own some books about Asian culture. And I own a suit.

Cutlerzzz
09-18-2013, 04:53 PM
This map refers to the average IQ of indigenous populations. Mongoloid Asians have the highest average IQ, Africans and Australian aborigines have the lowest.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png

Why has Botswana had the fastest growing economy in the world since it's independence?

LibForestPaul
09-18-2013, 04:56 PM
Are we talking only orientals? Or are we including Indians et al?

BlackTerrel
09-18-2013, 06:49 PM
pretty sure it includes high-tech from india but fair question

Work ethic. Strong families.

Doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist or shouldn't be addressed.

BlackTerrel
09-18-2013, 06:50 PM
This map refers to the average IQ of indigenous populations. Mongoloid Asians have the highest average IQ, Africans and Australian aborigines have the lowest.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/AverageIQ-Map-World.png

You still?

I would be curious to know the average IQ of your moms basement? I'd guess 55.

Grubb556
09-18-2013, 07:26 PM
Well, if you lived in Asia and had the money to be able to move to America you probably had a good job and whatnot.

anaconda
09-18-2013, 07:32 PM
I thought 100 was average. The map makes it seem like it's higher than average.

twomp
09-18-2013, 07:42 PM
I am willing to step into the role of the Asian Al Sharpton. It is true that I am not Asian, but I own some books about Asian culture. And I own a suit.

I will fill that role since I am Asian. What do I have to do? Just go around being angry all the time?

Ender
09-18-2013, 08:00 PM
IQ tests are western culture hoopla that have nothing to do with real intelligence. Even the inventor of the first IQ tests thought them unreliable.


This first intelligence test, referred to today as the Binet-Simon Scale, became the basis for the intelligence tests still in use today. However, Binet himself did not believe that his psychometric instruments could be used to measure a single, permanent and inborn level of intelligence (Kamin, 1995). Binet stressed the limitations of the test, suggesting that intelligence is far too broad a concept to quantify with a single number. Instead, he insisted that intelligence is influenced by a number of factors, changes over time and can only be compared among children with similar backgrounds (Siegler, 1992).



In Africa, many of the first white missionaries thought the African children were simpletons until they woke up and started teaching differently. Different races and ethnic backgrounds learn differently, as well as right and left brain dominants.

Sitting in rows in chairs regurgitating stuff from the blackboard makes no sense to many children and they may not pass a western IQ test very well but still be brilliant.