Federal government routinely hires internet trolls, shills to monitor chat rooms, disrupt arti

[donnay]

Federal government routinely hires internet trolls, shills to monitor chat rooms, disrupt article comment sections

by: Jonathan Benson

You've probably run into them before -- those seemingly random antagonizers who always end up diverting the conversation in an online chat room or article comment section away from the issue at hand, and towards a much different agenda. Hot-button issues like illegal immigration, the two-party political system, the "war on terror" and even alternative medicine are among the most common targets of such attackers, known as internet "trolls" or "shills," who in many cases are nothing more than paid lackeys hired by the federal government and other international organizations to sway and ultimately control public opinion.

Several years ago, Canada's CTV News aired a short segment about how its own government had been exposed for hiring secret agents to monitor social media and track online conversations, as well as the activities of certain dissenting individuals. This report, which in obvious whitewashing language referred to such activities as the government simply "weighing in and correcting" allegedly false information posted online, basically admitted that the Canadian government had assumed the role of secret online police. At the time, this was a great unknown to the general Canadian public.

You can view this CTV News segment here:
http://youtube.com

Of course, the same type of online patrolling by the government is also happening in the U.S., particularly from the CIA and its infamous In-Q-Tel program. At a 2012 summit, former CIA director David Petraeus essentially admitted that the CIA has a covert online presence that it uses not only for data mining purposes but also to infiltrate online conversations for the purpose of protecting "national security" interests. Such interests, it turns out, include disrupting conversations that discuss topics like 9/11 truth, for instance, or U.S. involvement in giving weapons to Syrian rebels.

According to Occupy Corporatism, the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA), which was recently exposed by American hero and whistleblower Edward Snowden for its illegal surveillance programs, has devised a training program that literally scouts out hackers from American colleges and universities and recruits them to work for the government. Among the many duties sought from those enrolled in the National Centers of Academic Excellence in the Cyber Operations Program are "collection, exploitation, and response" activities to take place in the online environment.

"These 'cyber operators' are trained to become an elite team of 'computer geniuses' that are experts in computer hacking, digital communications, cyber intelligence -- for the purpose of spying on Americans, as well as conducting interactive digital psy-ops with users of the internet," explains Occupy Corporatism about the program.

You can view the actual NSA announcement admitting this here:
http://www.nsa.gov


Alleged former 'shill' admits that trolling operations are real
Then there is the occasional confession by a former employee of the government who fesses up about what is really taking place in secret behind the scenes. A recent public posting on a "conspiracy theory" forum -- conspiracy websites are typically the most heavily targeted by government officials -- admits that individuals are constantly being recruited and hired by shadowy groups and government-affiliated agencies to manipulate online discussions.

"Shills exist," writes this anonymous ex-shill following a lengthy explanation of how he was hand-selected to pose as a normal commenter and basically lie on forums and in comment sections. "They are real. They walk among you ... You should be aware of this," he adds.

It should be noted that the alternative news website where this confession was recently re-posted was asked by the conspiracy website where it was originally posted to take it down, claiming that it is "libelous and utterly false," even though it does not name any specific names or identify who is behind these and other shill operations. When asked for an explanation, the conspiracy website in question simply stopped responding.

Sources for this article include:

http://youtube.com

http://consciouslifenews.com

http://www.nsa.gov

http://www.occupycorporatism.com

http://wakeup-world.com

Source:
http://www.naturalnews.com/042093_internet_trolls_chat_rooms_federal_governme nt.html#ixzz2fCOZI6ZO

[pacelli]

Start making lists folks, the other side is !!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Incredible that the government can use the American taxpayer's money against them to support big power government for THEMSELVES, regardless of Fascist affiliations.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Sources for this article include:

http://youtube.com

http://consciouslifenews.com

http://www.nsa.gov

http://www.occupycorporatism.com

http://wakeup-world.com

Why doesn't this guy link to the particular source?

I know who really assassinated Kennedy. Here's my source guys:

www.youtube.com

[VoluntaryAmerican]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpVUYGcgtjw

Here's the CTV video he's talking about.

edit:

The next time you post an opinion in an online forum or a Facebook group message board, don't be surprised if you get a rebuttal from a federal employee.

The government is looking for ways to monitor online chatter about political issues and correct what it perceives as misinformation.

The move started recently with a pilot project on the East Coast seal hunt. A Toronto-based company called Social Media Group has been hired to help counter some information put forward by the anti-sealing movement.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade has paid the firm $75,000 "to monitor social activity and help identify … areas where misinformation is being presented and repeated as fact," Simone MacAndrew, a department spokesperson, said in an email.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/bureaucrats-monitor-online-forums-1.906351

[Thor]

Let the which witch hunt begin....

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Alleged former 'shill' admits that trolling operations are real
Then there is the occasional confession by a former employee of the government who fesses up about what is really taking place in secret behind the scenes. A recent public posting on a "conspiracy theory" forum -- conspiracy websites are typically the most heavily targeted by government officials -- admits that individuals are constantly being recruited and hired by shadowy groups and government-affiliated agencies to manipulate online discussions.

"Shills exist," writes this anonymous ex-shill following a lengthy explanation of how he was hand-selected to pose as a normal commenter and basically lie on forums and in comment sections. "They are real. They walk among you ... You should be aware of this," he adds.

It should be noted that the alternative news website where this confession was recently re-posted was asked by the conspiracy website where it was originally posted to take it down, claiming that it is "libelous and utterly false," even though it does not name any specific names or identify who is behind these and other shill operations. When asked for an explanation, the conspiracy website in question simply stopped responding.

So an anonymous guy on a conspiracy website admitted that he was a government shill?

You actually consider this fucking evidence?

[Henry Rogue]

Why wouldn't they troll? It's not their money, they are frivolously wasting.

[CPUd]

Make sure you watch the whole thing:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1eHKf-dMwo

[69360]

So, if the government pays trolls to post, how do you know the source of this article isn't a paid troll?

It's those elusive top secret reverse conspiracy trolls.

Oh it's only a paid troll when they disagree with you, I get it. :rolleyes:

[WM_in_MO]

Article is itself a troll. trolls trolling trolls

[CPUd]

So, if the government pays trolls to post, how do you know the source of this article isn't a paid troll?

It's those elusive top secret reverse conspiracy trolls.

Oh it's only a paid troll when they disagree with you, I get it. :rolleyes:

Not sure if serious or trolling...

[FloralScent]

So an anonymous guy on a conspiracy website admitted that he was a government shill?

You actually consider this fucking evidence?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

There's your fucking evidence. Not that it's needed. Anyone with half a brain would assume this to be the case.

[FloralScent]

Not sure if serious or trolling...

You'd think the trolls would just avoid these threads, but they get hooked through the eye every time.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

There's your fucking evidence. Not that it's needed. Anyone with half a brain would assume this to be the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

You're a genius.

[BlackTerrel]

So an anonymous guy on a conspiracy website admitted that he was a government shill?

You actually consider this fucking evidence?

Of course it is evidence and you are so obvious troll.

Your tactics will not work here because we are not like the idiot sheeple who believe everything they read in the MSM.

Instead we rely on FACTS such as those posted anonymously on message boards.

[Danke]

http://www.leconcombre.com/concpost/us/postcard4/alfred_e_neuman.jpg

[FloralScent]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

You're a genius.

Nice non-response. I know a lot of your type just wish Cass would shut the hell up.

[FloralScent]

Of course it is evidence and you are so obvious troll.

Your tactics will not work here because we are not like the idiot sheeple who believe everything they read in the MSM.

Instead we rely on FACTS such as those posted anonymously on message boards.

This one swallowed the hook.

[Origanalist]

Of course it is evidence and you are so obvious troll.

Your tactics will not work here because we are not like the idiot sheeple who believe everything they read in the MSM.

Instead we rely on FACTS such as those posted anonymously on message boards.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qbyCMpBLhOQ

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpVUYGcgtjw

Here's the CTV video he's talking about.

edit:

The next time you post an opinion in an online forum or a Facebook group message board, don't be surprised if you get a rebuttal from a federal employee.

The government is looking for ways to monitor online chatter about political issues and correct what it perceives as misinformation.

The move started recently with a pilot project on the East Coast seal hunt. A Toronto-based company called Social Media Group has been hired to help counter some information put forward by the anti-sealing movement.

The Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade has paid the firm $75,000 "to monitor social activity and help identify … areas where misinformation is being presented and repeated as fact," Simone MacAndrew, a department spokesperson, said in an email.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/bureaucrats-monitor-online-forums-1.906351

$75,000 isn't that big of a buget to try to monitor all chat rooms and forums on the internet.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

http://www.leconcombre.com/concpost/us/postcard4/alfred_e_neuman.jpg


$75,000 isn't that big of a buget to try to monitor all chat rooms and forums on the internet.

Zippy we need more evidence from an anonymous guy on the internet. This is your Snowden moment.


Who do you work for?

[Zippyjuan]

I am not at liberty to say. My mom would get mad at me if I told on her. Might make me move out of the basement and take away my video games. She thinks I am doing homework right now. Gee Mom- I am almost 30 now! Leave me alone! Sheesh!

[fr33]

$75,000 isn't that big of a buget to try to monitor all chat rooms and forums on the internet.

Trolling is not the same as "monitoring". Monitors tend to think they are worth more than trolls.

[eduardo89]

Thank you for this article donnay.

I guess all those who don't support whale.to and natural news "facts" are really just paid trolls.

[ClydeCoulter]

Thank you for this article donnay.

I guess all those who don't support whale.to and natural news "facts" are really just paid trolls.

"Either your with us, or your with the terrorists"

[phill4paul]

Send me a P.M. if you are a troll and I can get a minority position working progressive and neo-con sites.

[better-dead-than-fed]

At a 2012 summit, former CIA director David Petraeus essentially admitted that the CIA has a covert online presence that it uses not only for data mining purposes but also to infiltrate online conversations for the purpose of protecting "national security" interests. Such interests, it turns out, include disrupting conversations that discuss topics like 9/11 truth, for instance, or U.S. involvement in giving weapons to Syrian rebels.http://www.naturalnews.com/042093_internet_trolls_chat_rooms_federal_governme nt.html#ixzz2fCOZI6ZO

Is NaturalNews's claim here substantiated by any reliable source? What were Petraeus's exact words?



You can view the actual NSA announcement admitting this here:
http://www.nsa.govhttp://www.naturalnews.com/042093_internet_trolls_chat_rooms_federal_governme nt.html#ixzz2fCOZI6ZO

I clicked the link but found no such announcement from the NSA.

[heavenlyboy34]

ROY L is one of Them!!!!1!! ;)

[eduardo89]

Is NaturalNews's claim here substantiated by any reliable source?

The answer to that question in every case of a NaturalNews claim is: NO.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Oh it's only a paid troll when they disagree with you, I get it.

You get only the straw man that you yourself set up. It's a paid "troll" when tax dollars fund its operation. If you don't know where your tax dollars are going, that does not imply that they're all going to good places.

[better-dead-than-fed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

There's your fucking evidence. Not that it's needed. Anyone with half a brain would assume this to be the case.



Patent application title: Persona management system for communications (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090313274)



our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that ... believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

Persona Management (http://wiki.project-pm.org/wiki/Persona_Management)
..

[Zippyjuan]

Is NaturalNews's claim here substantiated by any reliable source? What were Petraeus's exact words?



I clicked the link but found no such announcement from the NSA.


They seem to hope that people will trust what they say and not double check their sources. I have found that to be the case in many of their articles. I guess anybody who questions what they write is some sort of troll- either working for the government or "Big Pharma".

[ClydeCoulter]

Every act of a secret conspiracy that becomes discussed publicly is a conspiracy theory until the act is publicly acknowledged or proven. Detectives work on such theories in each case in the hopes of dis-covering them.

[Dr.3D]

$75,000 isn't that big of a buget to try to monitor all chat rooms and forums on the internet.
So they can always collect welfare on the side.

[Origanalist]

ROY L is one of Them!!!!1!! ;)

EVIL LIAR!

[MRK]

The answer to that question in every case of a NaturalNews claim is: NO.

I made a post to the comment section once saying something along the lines of "The next thing you know the industry will start claiming X" and then the next day Mr. Adams posted an article saying "Industries are now even claiming X"

So when you know at least one of his sources came from a sarcastic comment from one of his own articles, then you really have to start questioning anything from this guy.

[phill4paul]

I've not got a P.M.yet. Let me sweeten the pot and pledge a 10% finders fee.

[donnay]

Is NaturalNews's claim here substantiated by any reliable source? What were Petraeus's exact words?



I clicked the link but found no such announcement from the NSA.


http://www.nsa.gov/academia/nat_cae_cyber_ops/index.shtml
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/c-i-a-sponsored-trolls-monitor-internet-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/#
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f2_1355313666

[donnay]

They seem to hope that people will trust what they say and not double check their sources. I have found that to be the case in many of their articles. I guess anybody who questions what they write is some sort of troll- either working for the government or "Big Pharma".


I submit to you--What's the difference?

[Anti Federalist]

Soooo...what the fuck happened in here?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/418787/train-wreck-o.gif

[parocks]

This isn't 100% on point, but it has to do with NSA.

**************************

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Willis_(politician)


******************
Mark Willis (born June 11, 1969) is a businessman and former United States Army counterintelligence agent from Dennysville, Maine who was the only challenger to face Republican National Committee Chair Reince Priebus for the leadership of that organization at the 2013 Winter RNC meeting.[1][2]

In August of 2013, Willis, until then a member of the Republican National Committee, was one of thirteen Maine Republicans to resign en masse from the Republican Party, saying, ""We can no longer associate ourselves with a political party that goes out of its way to continually restrict our freedoms and liberties as well as reaching deeper and deeper into our wallets."[15]
******************

What exactly is

"former United States Army counterintelligence agent ."

And why did we (the Ron Paul people) elect a "former United States Army counterintelligence agent" as National Committeeman from Maine.

How are the Liberty people going to win - get control of the RNC - if the National Committeeman we put up there 1) quit after he ran out of ways to embarrass Ron Paul and 2) is a "former United States Army counterintelligence agent ."

So, if the US Military paid someone to troll on message boards, would that person be a "counterintelligence agent?

[parocks]

https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/analytical/open-source-officer-foreign-media-analyst.html

[fr33]

https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/analytical/open-source-officer-foreign-media-analyst.html

Tbh you're suspect as well. You always showed up religiously during the campaign whenever anyone dared to question what Ron Paul Inc were doing.

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.nsa.gov/academia/nat_cae_cyber_ops/index.shtml
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/c-i-a-sponsored-trolls-monitor-internet-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/#
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f2_1355313666

Those are links to the exact same article republished. Not any confirmation of the article's claims. Except the NSA link- which as was pointed out doesn't say anything about using trolls on the internet. Yes- showing that Natural News links don't usually support their articles (but it looks impressive to include them).

What the NSA link says:


National Centers of Academic Excellence - Cyber Operations

The National Security Agency (NSA) is pleased to announce the establishment of a new National Centers of Academic Excellence (CAE) in Cyber Operations Program. The program is in support of the President's National Initiative for Cybersecurity Education (NICE): Building a Digital Nation and furthers the goal to broaden the pool of skilled workers capable of supporting a cyber-secure nation.

The CAE-Cyber Operations program is intended to be a deeply technical, inter-disciplinary, higher education program firmly grounded in the computer science (CS), computer engineering (CE), and/or electrical engineering (EE) disciplines, with extensive opportunities for hands-on applications via labs/exercises.

The CAE-Cyber Operations program complements the existing Centers for Academic Excellence (CAE) in Information Assurance Education (CAE-IAE) and Research (CAE-R) programs, providing a particular emphasis on technologies and techniques related to specialized cyber operations (e.g., collection, exploitation, and response), to enhance the national security posture of our Nation. These technologies and techniques are critical to intelligence, military and law enforcement organizations authorized to perform these specialized operations.

For information on the Centers of Academic Excellence in Information Assurance Education and Research, please visit the Information Assurance section of our web site.

[better-dead-than-fed]

http://wiki.project-pm.org/wiki/Persona_Development


Persona and Content Development

The scenario and associated mission objectives will dictate the type and number of personas that need to be developed per exercise. Generally speaking we are talking about four types of personas that increase in complexity. The mission objectives and persona characteristics will be provided by the customer for each exercise with development and maintenance support provided by HBGary Federal.

Level 0 Character: Used mostly for quick and temporal communication. No persona description required. These characters have specific user accounts or email addresses that are used for quick communications or to satisfy very specific mission requirements that do not require any more in-depth use. The customer will generate all of the information required to establish these accounts. HBGary Federal will provide the persona management system so the customer can easily deconflict new accounts with historical accounts.

Level 1 Character: These accounts have slightly more depth with created generic names that generate significant hits when the name is queried on search engine and other social media platforms. These accounts are meant to provide slightly more depth for use in establishing contact with individuals and at a glance appearing to be real. Any accounts established for this type of a character would have the most strict privacy settings so as to hide the lack of detail associated with these accounts. As an example, an established level 1 persona might have an associated gmail address with a Facebook, twitter, and or linkedin account. All of the associated social media accounts would be set to the highest privacy settings so no details would be visible other than an account exists and may or may not be associated with a specific email address. The customer will generate all of the information required to establish these accounts. HBGary Federal will provide the persona management system so the customer can easily deconflict new accounts with historical accounts.

Level 2 Character: Level 2 characters are similar to level 1 characters except they provide slightly more detail on the personas background and may require some paid services to set up creative content pages for more in-depth exercise engagements. This requires more upfront character development so as to make a persona that will be viewed as plausible throughout the engagement. With the surge in social media services the majority of capabilities generated to fit the persona will be free, so the focus will be on the details of the persona and because more of the personas background will be visible and more depth required, most of the effort for these characters will be ensuring the persona appears real and active to the audience. This means automated content generation mixed with human generated content related to the persona at a frequency that would be consistent with the personas background. To pull this character off requires a good understanding of the audience and subject matter. HBGary Federal has devised a set of techniques that can make personas appear real, such as manipulating GPS coordinates and using location based services to checkin to specific locations, or using twitter hashtags and specific tweets to make it appear as if a persona is attending a specific conference. HBGary Federal will do the research and develop realistic personas to meet the customer’s exercise requirements. HBGary Federal will also provide the persona management system so the customer can easily deconflict new accounts with historical accounts.

Level 3 Character: The most detailed character. These personas are required to conduct human-to-human direct contact likely in-person to satisfy some more advanced exercise requirements. This character must look, smell, and feel 100% real at the most detailed level. This character will need to be associated with a real company, hold a real position with that company and have all the technical and business artifacts associated with the position and organization. The trick here is while the persona needs to be real, the actual person may not be working in this role 100% of the time. In these cases there are still tricks that can be used to more rapidly age or update accounts. One such trick is to build outward facing accounts such as twitter, YouTube, or blogs with generic names, for example setting up a twitter account s0c1alman. Using some of our micro-blogging techniques for auto-generating content we can manage many of these types of accounts automatically and age them. Then when a real persona is created for a particular exercise we can associate a twitter, YouTube, and blog account that has been aging and link it to a LinkedIn and Facebook profile that was just created. This gives the perception that this person has been around in this space for a while. HBGary Federal also has experience in developing LLCs, phone services, websites, etc. to establish the corporate bonafides. There are also other tricks we can use to build friends lists quickly so as to give the perception the persona is social or professionally active.

[parocks]

Tbh you're suspect as well. You always showed up religiously during the campaign whenever anyone dared to question what Ron Paul Inc were doing.

You don't get it at all, do you?

I pointed out that Mark Willis worked for Army Counterintelligence.

I defended Ron Paul against he type of attacks that Army Counterintelligence would make.

[eduardo89]

https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/analytical/open-source-officer-foreign-media-analyst.html

That looks like an amazing job. Too bad you have to be a US citizen, otherwise I'd apply.

[better-dead-than-fed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein

There's your fucking evidence. Not that it's needed. Anyone with half a brain would assume this to be the case.



Patent application title: Persona management system for communications (http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090313274)



our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that ... believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585


Throughout, we assume a well-motivated government that aims to eliminate conspiracy theories, or draw their poison, if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so....

oic


... Cognitive infiltration

Rather than taking the continued existence of the hard core as a constraint, and addressing itself solely to the third-party mass audience, government might undertake (legal) tactics for breaking up the tight cognitive clusters of extremist theories, arguments and rhetoric that are produced by the hard core and reinforce it in turn. One promising tactic is cognitive infiltration of extremist groups. By this we do not mean 1960s-style infiltration with a view to surveillance and collecting information, possibly for use in future prosecutions. Rather, we mean that government efforts might succeed in weakening or even breaking up the ideological and epistemological complexes that constitute these networks and groups.

How might this tactic work? Recall that extremist networks and groups, including the groups that purvey conspiracy theories, typically suffer from a kind of crippled epistemology. Hearing only conspiratorial accounts of government behavior, their members become ever more prone to believe and generate such accounts. Informational and reputational cascades, group polarization, and selection effects suggest that the generation of ever-more-extreme views within these groups can be dampened or reversed by the introduction of cognitive diversity. We suggest a role for government efforts, and agents, in introducing such diversity. Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action.

In one variant, government agents would openly proclaim, or at least make no effort to conceal, their institutional affiliations. A recent newspaper story recounts that Arabic-speaking Muslim officials from the State Department have participated in dialogues at radical Islamist chat rooms and websites in order to ventilate arguments not usually heard among the groups that cluster around those sites, with some success. In another variant, government officials would participate anonymously or even with false identities. Each approach has distinct costs and benefits; the second is riskier but potentially brings higher returns. In the former case, where government officials participate openly as such, hard-core members of the relevant networks, communities and conspiracy-minded organizations may entirely discount what the officials say, right from the beginning. The risk with tactics of anonymous participation, conversely, is that if the tactic becomes known, any true member of the relevant groups who raises doubts may be suspected of government connections. Despite these difficulties, the two forms of cognitive infiltration offer different risk-reward mixes and are both potentially useful instruments.

There is a similar tradeoff along another dimension: whether the infiltration should occur in the real world, through physical penetration of conspiracist groups by undercover agents, or instead should occur strictly in cyberspace. The latter is safer, but potentially less productive. The former will sometimes be indispensable, where the groups that purvey conspiracy theories (and perhaps themselves formulate conspiracies) formulate their views through real-space informational networks rather than virtual networks. Infiltration of any kind poses well-known risks: perhaps agents will be asked to perform criminal acts to prove their bona fides, or (less plausibly) will themselves become persuaded by the conspiratorial views they are supposed to be undermining; perhaps agents will be unmasked and harmed by the infiltrated group. But the risks are generally greater for real-world infiltration, where the agent is exposed to more serious harms.

All these risk-reward tradeoffs deserve careful consideration. Particular tactics may or may not be cost-justified under particular circumstances. Our main suggestion is just that, whatever the tactical details, there would seem to be ample reason for government efforts to introduce some cognitive diversity into the groups that generate conspiracy theories. Social cascades are sometimes quite fragile, precisely because they are based on small slivers of information. Once corrective information is introduced, large numbers of people can be shifted to different views. If government is able to have credibility, or to act through credible agents, it might well be successful in dislodging beliefs that are held only because no one contradicts them. Likewise, polarization tends to decrease when divergent views are voiced within the group. Introducing a measure of cognitive diversity can break up the epistemological networks and clusters that supply conspiracy theories....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

[jbauer]

Rats. I've been sold out. How do I change my ID?

[Lucille]

I can hardly believe that there are people here denying this. I thought it was common knowledge.

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks?view=mobile

Why Did the U.S. Military Buy 500 Fake Internet Personas?
http://www.jrdeputyaccountant.com/2011/02/why-did-us-military-buy-500-fake.html


It's happening, people, the question is whether you'll be standing there arguing with a fake sockpuppet of the establishment or shoving your foot up his or her fictitious ass when it happens to you.

[69360]

You get only the straw man that you yourself set up. It's a paid "troll" when tax dollars fund its operation. If you don't know where your tax dollars are going, that does not imply that they're all going to good places.

I don't pay any federal taxes.

[A Son of Liberty]

Soooo...what the fuck happened in here?

Someone posted an article that makes them feel better about the fact that not everyone agrees with their assessment of almost every current events news story.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Soooo...what the fuck happened in here?

Someone posted a bad article about a bad misuse of tax dollars, and then some nefarious agents confused the issue.

[A Son of Liberty]

Someone posted a bad article about a bad misuse of tax dollars, and then some government-paid shills confused the issue.

Speaking personally, I don't assume that because someone disagrees with me they must be getting paid to make their comments.

[donnay]

Someone posted an article that makes them feel better about the fact that not everyone agrees with their assessment of almost every current events news story.


Oh I definitely feel better, this article seemed to weed out the people who I have thought were trolls all along. :p

[better-dead-than-fed]

Speaking personally, I don't assume that because someone disagrees with me they must be getting paid to make their comments.

Neither do I, so I corrected my previous post; but I do assume the government is using force to take people's money, and I assume they are using the money to further their own interests in any and all ways they can get away with, and that would include persona management, shills, and cognitive infiltration, as I've referenced above.

[A Son of Liberty]

Oh I definitely feel better, this article seemed to weed out the people who I have thought were trolls all along. :p

I have no doubt that you read this article and then "decided" that everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Cheers donna.

[A Son of Liberty]

Neither do I, so I corrected my previous post; but I do assume the government is using force to take people's money, and I assume they are using the money to further their own interests in any and all ways they can get away with, and that includes persona management, shills, and cognitive infiltration, as I've referenced above.

I'm sure they are. My response was an ironic comment with regard to the likelihood that the OP (borne out) felt a smug assurance that that those who disagree with her are certain paid sock-puppets. For her, that's a cozy "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition, which allows her to ignore everyone who posts things that don't agree with what she's read elsewhere.

I don't know. Maybe that brings her some peace. If so, we should all be glad for it. On it's face, it's a little sad... but, hell, the whole damned ball of wax is a crime against humanity to begin with, so what's one more anyway?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

That looks like an amazing job. Too bad you have to be a US citizen, otherwise I'd apply.

The only thing amazing about the job is the relatively high pay for a basically entry level government waste job, barely a notch or two above an internship that requires the slightest of thinking skills. They hand them out to the person who took the right foreign language in college.

[dannno]

Thank you for this article donnay.

I guess all those who don't support whale.to and natural news "facts" are really just paid trolls.

No, I'd bet some of you work for the establishment for free because you have been tricked into believing them on the one hand when you know they lie on the other.

[ObiRandKenobi]

you got me.

[RickyJ]

Israel does too, as well as some corporations, like Samsung. You can't control people without good propaganda, so the Internet has to be targeted just like other forms of mass communications.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What exactly is

"former United States Army counterintelligence agent ."



It's basically the person who performed the wasteful nonsense of other government institutions that steal your tax dollars. The only difference is that these jobs are so cool to so many people, so they're not separated from the other drones. An exact definition would be a pitiful military bureaucrat who--like his government blob counterpart--daydreams about multiple Walthers and getting in the pants of foreign women.

[donnay]

I'm sure they are. My response was an ironic comment with regard to the likelihood that the OP (borne out) felt a smug assurance that that those who disagree with her are certain paid sock-puppets. For her, that's a cozy "heads I win, tails you lose" proposition, which allows her to ignore everyone who posts things that don't agree with what she's read elsewhere.

I don't know. Maybe that brings her some peace. If so, we should all be glad for it. On it's face, it's a little sad... but, hell, the whole damned ball of wax is a crime against humanity to begin with, so what's one more anyway?


It's people like you who make me chuckle--thanks for the laughs, I needed it. Outstanding! Keep up the good work. ;)

[dannno]

I have no doubt that you read this article and then "decided" that everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

Cheers donna.

Since she hasn't responded to that specific question yet, I feel comfortable responding for her. No, you are wrong, that is not what she believes. At all. I don't know where in the article you read, "EVERYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU ON THE INTERNET IS A GOVERNMENT PAID TROLL."

The entire point of government paid troll is to get more real people on their side. So it makes sense that they would have some non-government paid people agreeing with and promoting their views.

So what is the real lesson here?

Don't find yourself agreeing with government paid trolls!!!

[A Son of Liberty]

Since she hasn't responded to that specific question yet, I feel comfortable responding for her. No, you are wrong, that is not what she believes. At all. I don't know where in the article you read, "EVERYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU ON THE INTERNET IS A GOVERNMENT PAID TROLL."

The entire point of government paid troll is to get more real people on their side. So it makes sense that they would have some non-government paid people agreeing with and promoting their views.

So what is the real lesson here?

Don't find yourself agreeing with government paid trolls!!!

Here's the thing - good government-paid trolls wouldn't be wrong all the time.

[BlackTerrel]

Soooo...what the fuck happened in here?

I made $3.50 just off posting on this thread.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I made $3.50 just off posting on this thread.

Make sure you complete your 1099 form. Heh, heh.:D

[amy31416]

Well, here's the thing--there are Fed trolls, of course there are. This is how they've busted people who operate in Bitcoin, Anonymous and probably other orgs--this is known, so the logical conclusion is that OF COURSE they are monitoring chatrooms and probably disrupting some things. But, as of this point, I still believe (due to things like their budget), that it's only much higher-level stuff than YouTube, RPF's, etc.

They are looking to bust big players and take everything they have while making an example of them. The NSA's programs will make it easier to eventually go after smaller and smaller targets for far less effort.

[Thor]

Well, here's the thing--there are Fed trolls, of course there are. This is how they've busted people who operate in Bitcoin, Anonymous and probably other orgs--this is known, so the logical conclusion is that OF COURSE they are monitoring chatrooms and probably disrupting some things. But, as of this point, I still believe (due to things like their budget), that it's only much higher-level stuff than YouTube, RPF's, etc.

They are looking to bust big players and take everything they have while making an example of them. The NSA's programs will make it easier to eventually go after smaller and smaller targets for far less effort.

Oh, you think RPF with Kokesh supporters, tyrannical cop haters, and those limited government kooks aren't worthy of some eyes?

[AngryCanadian]

I am not surprised i have encountered some of them on the guardian. And other forums. They always ask you what Ethnic you are based on.

[amy31416]

Oh, you think RPF with Kokesh supporters, tyrannical cop haters, and those limited government kooks aren't worthy of some eyes?

Not really. With the limited budget, length of time we've been around, if they ever had eyes on us, they've become bored or moved on to more worthy targets. Like those who genuinely threaten banks, financial institutions, or ones that can serve their current purposes--like militia groups, Muslim groups, Christian groups, etc.

[JK/SEA]

well, i'm happy their getting paid to at least learn something....:p

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Soooo...what the fuck happened in here?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/418787/train-wreck-o.gif

OP posted an article that was poorly sourced and claimed something to be fact that it didn't prove.

[CPUd]

Oh, you think RPF with Kokesh supporters, tyrannical cop haters, and those limited government kooks aren't worthy of some eyes?

During the primaries, yes, because this board was an organizational hub that threatened a major political campaign.

Right now, not so much. When they come to really destroy a board, you will know it. And the ones behind it won't be alphabet agencies, they are doing it for commercial purposes.

[parocks]

Since she hasn't responded to that specific question yet, I feel comfortable responding for her. No, you are wrong, that is not what she believes. At all. I don't know where in the article you read, "EVERYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU ON THE INTERNET IS A GOVERNMENT PAID TROLL."

The entire point of government paid troll is to get more real people on their side. So it makes sense that they would have some non-government paid people agreeing with and promoting their views.

So what is the real lesson here?

Don't find yourself agreeing with government paid trolls!!!

"The entire point of government paid troll is to get more real people on their side."

I don't know about this. "Government paid trolls" might be interested in getting real people on their side. Sometimes, maybe.

But there are some other things that "Government paid trolls" might do.

Infiltrating organizations and getting people demoralized about the mission.
And getting people motivated to do pointless and harmful things.

Now that I've seen that the National Committeeman that the Ron Paul people voted for, that I voted for, in Maine last May, used to work for INSCOM and the NSA, I now suspect that many of the crazy BS ideas that I saw repeated so often here on ronpaulforums since 2007 aren't naturally occurring in any sense. They're elaborate tricks being pulled by people who have no interest in helping Ron Paul at all, but only of harming Ron Paul. I'm not arguing that everyone who adopts the ideas of the paid tricksters are paid tricksters. The paid tricksters have loud voices, and are persistent. It is not a shock that people buy in at times, and parrot the paid tricksters lines.

Arguably, this problem being discussed here is the central problem we have.

How can we fight this?

Where can I find an article somewhere? Something definitive. That says something like: "Goverment spies often develop plans to infiltrate and disrupt organizations, including political campaigns. Here is what they typically try to accomplish. Here are many examples of this happening in the past. Here is how this serious problem is effectively fought."

We need this. We all need to know this. When the Ron Paul campaign in Maine is electing as National Committeeman (Mark Willis) someone who worked for INSCOM as a liason between INSCOM and the NSA, something is seriously wrong with our abilities to root out those who aren't interested in helping, in following the plan, but in disrupting the plan.

I want that link to that article that helps us fight against the Government paid trolls who are trying to disrupt our plans. Strangely enough, Wikipedia does a pretty good job of that.


INSCOM also has significant responsibilities in counterintelligence, force protection, electronic warfare, and information warfare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Intelligence_and_Security_Comma nd
INSCOM was Mark Willis's employer for 10 years.

What exactly is "information warfare"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_warfare
"Information warfare may involve collection of tactical information, assurance(s) that one's own information is valid, spreading of propaganda or disinformation to demoralize or manipulate[1] the enemy and the public, undermining the quality of opposing force information and denial of information-collection opportunities to opposing forces."

Spreading of propaganda or disinformation? Isn't that what Government Paid Trolls do?

I'm really pissed off about all this. It's one thing to recognize that we aren't going to win many battles right now because enough people aren't on our side right now. It's another thing to recognize that the Government is taking our tax dollars and paying people to disrupt our plans to get people on our side. Really pisses me off. Goverment vs People.

I do not like when the Government fks with people.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Not really. With the limited budget, length of time we've been around, if they ever had eyes on us, they've become bored or moved on to more worthy targets. Like those who genuinely threaten banks, financial institutions, or ones that can serve their current purposes--like militia groups, Muslim groups, Christian groups, etc.

Bingo. If you owe big cash in taxes or talk of blowing up a building, then these people will focus on you. Lower level workers are given small cases. It breaks them into the job, and helps the government make an example or two of a little guy now and then. It's no different than any other type of job in that the government worker wants to make the impressive score. That ain't gonna happen on RPF. Sort of laughable really.

The gov couldn't much care less what is being said on here, save for the pulse of what's happening. Most people on these forums are all talk. That does not hold much interest for the gov.

[parocks]

Oh, you think RPF with Kokesh supporters, tyrannical cop haters, and those limited government kooks aren't worthy of some eyes?

What? Kokesh is likely a troll.

Ron Paul was a huge threat to the Military. He's the only candidate ever to seriously talk about cutting the Military budget. Ron Paul has clearly expressed, over and over, his dislike for the NSA. The Military would have an interest in hurting the Ron Paul campaign, and stifling any opposition (which would be us) to increased Spying, increased Military Spending.

That's what it's about. They aren't looking to bust people. Their core message at this point is "leave the GOP." Which some people here like. It's very popular in Maine nowadays. Forget that the Ron Paul plan was "join the GOP and change it from within" and has been for many years.

[parocks]

Bingo. If you owe big cash in taxes or talk of blowing up a building, then these people will focus on you. Lower level workers are given small cases. It breaks them into the job, and helps the government make an example or two of a little guy now and then. It's no different than any other type of job in that the government worker wants to make the impressive score. That ain't gonna happen on RPF. Sort of laughable really.

The gov couldn't much care less what is being said on here, save for the pulse of what's happening. Most people on these forums are all talk. That does not hold much interest for the gov.

You aren't getting it either. The Government isn't looking to bust people for crimes. The Government is trying to disrupt the Ron Paul Campaign and the "Liberty Movement". Because we want the NSA gone. We want the Military budget cut in half. And they're trying to prevent us from following our plans.

[fr33]

You don't get it at all, do you?

I pointed out that Mark Willis worked for Army Counterintelligence.

I defended Ron Paul against he type of attacks that Army Counterintelligence would make.

During the campaign right up until the RNC, and shortly after it, you used the Maine GOP as THE example everyone should have followed because they "did what they were told by the campaign".

Did you only recently discover Mark Willis' past occupation?

Have you attempted to discuss it with him?

[parocks]

During the primaries, yes, because this board was an organizational hub that threatened a major political campaign.

Right now, not so much. When they come to really destroy a board, you will know it. And the ones behind it won't be alphabet agencies, they are doing it for commercial purposes.

Would want more detail on this.

[amy31416]

You aren't getting it either. The Government isn't looking to bust people for crimes. The Government is trying to disrupt the Ron Paul Campaign and the "Liberty Movement". Because we want the NSA gone. We want the Military budget cut in half. And they're trying to prevent us from following our plans.

You really think we pose that much of a threat?

We have Massie, Paul and Amash. We got an "audit the Fed" bill passed, which was easily shot into the dirt, despite tons of support. We know they're shitbags, but they know we can't do shit about the NSA, the Federal Reserve or military adventurism. No "war" in Syria was not our victory, they just shifted, changed the rules and are arming the rebels anyways.

And even if someone here did do something about something--guess what happens? They go to their archives and say "RON/RAND PAUL SUPPORTER INVOLVED IN HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! THEY ARE ALL HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO HATE THE CHILDREN, THE POOR AND MINORITIES." At this point, there's no need for that. If Rand looks to be "dangerous," then perhaps they will--at this point, it's not their biggest issue.

There's a certain bit of narcissism involved in being convinced that you're the biggest rebels on the planet that the "elite" track your every move--you have to have some "importance" for them to look more closely at you from the Fed level. But don't worry, with all the advances in Utah, you too can become a target of the Fed gov quite easily if you're useful or genuinely threatening.

[parocks]

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=236962.0
Spotting Paid Trolls
- contains details from a paid troll about what they do.

The “complex debate” part of the job involved a fair amount of additional training, including
memorizing more specific information about the specific posters (friendly and hostile) I’d be sparring with.
Here, too, there were scripts and suggested lines of argument, but we were given more freedom.
There were a lot of details to this more advanced stage of the job – everything from how to select the right avatar
to how to use “demotivationals” (humorous images with black borders that one finds floating around the web).
Even the proper use of images of cats was discussed.
Sometimes we used faked or photo-shopped images or doctored news reports (something else that bothered me).

[parocks]

Disinformation: How It Works
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/964-disinformation-how-it-works


Stopping Disinformation

The best way to disarm disinformation agents is to know their methods inside and out.
This gives us the ability to point out exactly what they are doing in detail the moment they try to do it.
Immediately exposing a disinformation tactic as it is being used is highly destructive to the person utilizing it.
It makes them look foolish, dishonest and weak for even making the attempt.
Internet trolls most especially do not know how to handle their methods being deconstructed right in front of their eyes
and usually fold and run from debate when it occurs.

*******************

A comment:

As far as paid posters are concerned, I suggest you look into the Obama Administration's OPENLY ADMITTED projects to "mold internet opinion" through forum sites like Facebook, as well as the Federal Reserve, DHS, and DOD's OPENLY ADMITTED paid cyberwarfare programs. They have been caught red handed on numerous occasions using the tactics I describe above. If you are trying to say that no such programs exist, I recommend you educate yourself further using the widely substantiated evidence available before jumping to such conclusions.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You aren't getting it either. The Government isn't looking to bust people for crimes. The Government is trying to disrupt the Ron Paul Campaign and the "Liberty Movement". Because we want the NSA gone. We want the Military budget cut in half. And they're trying to prevent us from following our plans.

Ha ha, what plans would those be? Yammering away on two bit forum that has a tiny handful of die-hard readers?

[parocks]

You really think we pose that much of a threat?

We have Massie, Paul and Amash. We got an "audit the Fed" bill passed, which was easily shot into the dirt, despite tons of support. We know they're shitbags, but they know we can't do shit about the NSA, the Federal Reserve or military adventurism. No "war" in Syria was not our victory, they just shifted, changed the rules and are arming the rebels anyways.

And even if someone here did do something about something--guess what happens? They go to their archives and say "RON/RAND PAUL SUPPORTER INVOLVED IN HEINOUS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! THEY ARE ALL HORRIBLE PEOPLE WHO HATE THE CHILDREN, THE POOR AND MINORITIES." At this point, there's no need for that. If Rand looks to be "dangerous," then perhaps they will--at this point, it's not their biggest issue.

There's a certain bit of narcissism involved in being convinced that you're the biggest rebels on the planet that the "elite" track your every move--you have to have some "importance" for them to look more closely at you from the Fed level. But don't worry, with all the advances in Utah, you too can become a target of the Fed gov quite easily if you're useful or genuinely threatening.

You don't get it.

Ron Paul was most certainly the greatest threat to the Fed and the Military in a really long time. The Fed and the Military are the ones who are actually doing this. The Fed does not want to be ended. The Military does not want to see every overseas base closed. Ron Paul was and is the only politician saying these things. The Military and the Fed did not like this one bit.

This isn't about specific worries individuals might have. That's a different question, not one that I'm discussing here.

What I'm talking about is internet trolls, here on RPF and elsewhere, paid for by the Military or the Fed, to post things that hurt the campaign. Part of a larger effort to hurt the campaign, to prevent the campaigns goals from being accomplished.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You really think we pose that much of a threat?


There's a certain bit of narcissism involved in being convinced that you're the biggest rebels on the planet that the "elite" track your every move--you have to have some "importance" for them to look more closely at you from the Fed level. But don't worry, with all the advances in Utah, you too can become a target of the Fed gov quite easily if you're useful or genuinely threatening.

Quoted especially for parocks and the dozens of others on forums who think they're the cat's meow.


************************************************** ***************************************

Instead of people yammering away about what they saw on cable TV, get out and do something. You should be more concerned about how you're money is being spent than thinking your writing is so mesmerizing to the masses. Nobody is reading what you're saying.

Some people give faaaaarrrr to much credit to these circus clowns. Not only that, they place an aura around these government imbeciles like they're some kind of cloak and dagger movie script. The vast majority of people still get caught because somebody told on them. The rest of the small minority gets caught because they were given limited immunity to run their mouth. Remember when the teacher told you that you'd better tell what you know because they'll find out anyway? That's right; the same trick that worked on you in third grade also works on adults.

And "propaganda"? Oh, that's a laugh. These ass clowns are spending your money thinking they are going to influence and even control the entire world. Yeah, your money. Anybody open that job ad for the CIA posted on this thread? They basically pay some 26 year old kid to read towelhead newspapers, and people on RPF are so impressed. These morons are basically doing the same crap they did sixty years ago. Instead of dropping flyers over Korea though, they make people think leaflets are dropping en masse through your computer. What is an even bigger joke is that people think they're so important by posting about this shit, while some dumbass uses his expense account to eat at four star restaurants and screw prostitutes.

[parocks]

Ha ha, what plans would those be? Yammering away on two bit forum that has a tiny handful of die-hard readers?

Ha Ha indeed.

Your argument here is RPF sucks?

I'd argue that more attention was paid to Ron Paul in 2007-2008 and 2011-2012 than is now.

One key plan was to take positions on the Republican Committees. And in Maine, we succeeded. At the convention, we took most of the State Committee seats. We also took the National Committeeman and woman seats.

The overall idea was to take control of the RNC, and the state committees and have them do what we wanted them to. And we succeeded in the plan in Maine.
But ex-INSCOM/NSA Mark Willis - National Committeeman who we put in that spot - just quit. Quitting, and getting 12 other Ron Paul GOP including quite a few state committee, is not the plan. It's the opposite of the plan.

Here's what happened, in a nutshell.

Ron Paul people vote in Ron Paul Supporters(?) to State Committee and National Committee seats. Good.
Ex INSCOM/NSA Mark Willis, National Committeeman (our guy) gets them to quit. Bad.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You don't get it.

What I'm talking about is internet trolls, here on RPF and elsewhere, paid for by the Military or the Fed, to post things that hurt the campaign. Part of a larger effort to hurt the campaign, to prevent the campaigns goals from being accomplished.

No, you don't get it. Quit being so narcissistic and get in the real world. Nobody gives a crap about what you post.

[eduardo89]

I've been accused of being a paid shill on this forum and on another one. On this one I was accused of actually being multiple people of British origin and also of being part of the banking elite. On another forum (RevBox) I was accused by a guy with the username 'WetPussy' of being a paid shill for FreedomWorks and the Kochs.

[green73]

I've been accused of being a paid shill on this forum and on another one. On this one I was accused of actually being multiple people of British origin and also of being part of the banking elite. On another forum (RevBox) I was accused by a guy with the username 'WetPussy' of being a paid shill for FreedomWorks and the Kochs.

I'm never worried when wet pussy is involved.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Your argument here is RPF sucks?



What sucks is people who get involved (as in your Maine example), but then act goofy by saying some asinine thing about some government circus clown responding to parocks and his posts. Are you wonder why you get the result that you get.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

On another forum (RevBox) I was accused by a guy with the username 'WetPussy' of being a paid shill for FreedomWorks and the Kochs.

You should have accused him of being the phone sex guy impersonating a woman. :p:D

[parocks]

http://youtu.be/VpVUYGcgtjw
http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/
http://www.nsa.gov/academia/nat_cae_cyber_ops/index.shtml
http://www.occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-social-media-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/
http://wakeup-world.com/2012/10/03/pay-for-comments-confessions-of-a-paid-disinformation-internet-shill/

[parocks]

What sucks is people who get involved (as in your Maine example), but then act goofy by saying some asinine thing about some government circus clown responding to parocks and his posts. Are you wonder why you get the result that you get.

You don't make sense.

You don't think it's a problem that an ex INSCOM/NSA guy just quit and got a bunch of other Ron Paulers to quit?

[better-dead-than-fed]

you don't get it. Quit being so narcissistic and get in the real world. Nobody gives a crap about what you post.

Because NorthCarolinaLiberty, for whatever reason, is in the practice attacking persons who suggest that even a single government employee would monitor even the largest forum in the English speaking world:





The government is not monitoring these forums.Not even one single government employee?

Nope; no government employees monitoring.What did you see or hear which gave you that belief? What evidence supports your belief?

[parocks]

No, you don't get it. Quit being so narcissistic and get in the real world. Nobody gives a crap about what you post.

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the Fed Gov infiltrating the Ron Paul campaign in Maine.

I'm talking about the Fed Gov hiring paid trolls to disrupt a campaign.

The people who don't want to hear about that are probably not Ron Paul supporters.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

http://youtu.be/VpVUYGcgtjw
http://consciouslifenews.com/paid-internet-shill-shadowy-groups-manipulate-internet-opinion-debate/1147073/
http://www.nsa.gov/academia/nat_cae_cyber_ops/index.shtml
http://www.occupycorporatism.com/cia-sponsored-trolls-monitor-social-media-interact-with-users-to-discredit-factual-information/
http://wakeup-world.com/2012/10/03/pay-for-comments-confessions-of-a-paid-disinformation-internet-shill/

Yep; knew it would not take me long to find it. One of the "authors" from one of those incredibly reliable sources said, "They are listening to every conversation, reading every post, intercepting every text message under the false flag of terrorism.

The facility has the technological ability to record and analyze every communication in the world."


LOL!!!! Seriously brother, first learn how a basic walkie-talkie functions and then we can list ad nauseum what is wrong with that line and a whole lot of other crap in that crap you posted.

[better-dead-than-fed]

You really think we pose that much of a threat?

We have Massie, Paul and Amash. We got [a]... bill passed....

Sunstein's statements show that the government does not measure threat-level in terms of candidates and bills alone; it measures threat-level in terms of "beliefs, theories, arguments, and rhetoric":







our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that ... believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice....


... Cognitive infiltration

... government might undertake (legal) tactics for breaking up the tight cognitive clusters of extremist theories, arguments and rhetoric ....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Because NorthCarolinaLiberty, for whatever reason, is in the practice attacking person's who suggest that even a single government employee would monitor even the largest forum in the English speaking world (reddit):

Your thread about Reddit was moved from the highest read forum of Politics to the blackhole subforum of Science and Technology. Maybe that single government employee is actually a moderator on this forum.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about the Fed Gov infiltrating the Ron Paul campaign in Maine.

I'm talking about the Fed Gov hiring paid trolls to disrupt a campaign.

The people who don't want to hear about that are probably not Ron Paul supporters.

Get off this forum and walk around your city some time. Notice the smoking bans, no gun zones, massive occupational licensing, large sign ordinances, homeschool regulations, excessive business license taxes, or the millions of other things that millions of other people put in place because they love government.

It's easy to fall into tunnelvision when you're on a forum like this, but most of the world does not think like the people here. Most people love the various aspects of big government. Working on eliminating that no gun sign in town is going to be far more productive than focusing on some forum guy with a funny user name.

[parocks]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/leftist-trolls-in-ongoing-war-with-wnd/

http://darkhorsenet.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/government-social-media-manipulation-and-the-common-and-garden-troll/
I provide this information only to reinforce and warn that WikiLeaks Forum has been completely, as Christine Assange has stated, “infiltrated”.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/us-military-thugs-with-keyboards-to-spread-propaganda-using-up-to-10-online-personas-each_062013
http://webabuser.blogspot.com/2013/06/internet-trolls-wars-us-military-thugs.html
The online personalities, known as “sock puppets”, will allow the military to “create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome
opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.”

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread932095/pg1

http://consciouslifenews.com/cia-media-infiltration-operation-mockingbird-legal-internet-trolls/1147665/
Last year it was confirmed that the U.S. Military has been manipulating social media by using fake identities to influence conversations
and spread pro-American propaganda.
It’s called “Online Persona Management Services.”
Under the Centcom contract, it allows the creation of up to 10 fake online persona’s, known as “sock puppets,”
for every service man or woman working on the program.

According to Centcom, their only objective is to counter extremists and enemy propaganda outside of the U.S.,
saying that it would be unlawful to address U.S. audiences.

However, the 2013 version of the NDAA included an amendment that legalized domestic deceptive propaganda.
The new law allows the U.S government to legally carry out misinformation campaigns against U.S. citizens.


Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas
to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.


http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5
The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would
legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.

If the NDAA goes into effect in its current form, the State Department and Pentagon can go beyond manipulating mainstream media outlets
and directly disseminate campaigns of misinformation to the U.S. public.

[parocks]

Get off this forum and walk around your city some time. Notice the smoking bans, no gun zones, massive occupational licensing, large sign ordinances, homeschool regulations, excessive business license taxes, or the millions of other things that millions of other people put in place because they love government.

It's easy to fall into tunnelvision when you're on a forum like this, but most of the world does not think like the people here. Most people love the various aspects of big government. Working on eliminating that no gun sign in town is going to be far more productive than focusing on some forum guy with a funny user name.

I'm commenting on the subject matter of the post, which is Fed Gov hiring internet trolls. I'm extremely displeased that the Fed Gov takes our money and spends it on paying people to wreck our message boards or disrupt our political campaigns. I think that should be cut from the budget.

I'm not a Libertarian. Neither was Ron Paul. Almost everything Ron Paul was talking about had something to do with the Federal Government. Not the state government or local government. I share Ron Pauls concerns. I have no idea what you mean by "focusing on some forum guy with a funny user name." I think you're confusing me with someone else.

[parocks]

Yep; knew it would not take me long to find it. One of the "authors" from one of those incredibly reliable sources said, "They are listening to every conversation, reading every post, intercepting every text message under the false flag of terrorism.

The facility has the technological ability to record and analyze every communication in the world."


LOL!!!! Seriously brother, first learn how a basic walkie-talkie functions and then we can list ad nauseum what is wrong with that line and a whole lot of other crap in that crap you posted.

I didn't read that stuff. I'm trying to find as many links as I can to this material. It's very possible that some of those things in those articles are wrong. I didn't right them. I'm not claiming that those articles are 100% accurate. At all. Just relevant to this conversation.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Your thread about Reddit was moved from the highest read forum of Politics to the blackhole subforum of Science and Technology. Maybe that single government employee is actually a moderator on this forum.

Huh?

[better-dead-than-fed]

The online personalities, known as “sock puppets”, will allow the military to “create a false consensus in online conversations....”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus:


Consensus refers to the primary way decisions are made on Wikipedia....

[parocks]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread971352/pg1

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=30922.0

http://disinfo.com/2012/05/cognitive-infiltration-of-conspiracy-groups-white-house-official-cass-sunstein-confronted-video/

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-I-Was-a-Paid-Internet-Shill-Ex-Troll-Speaks-Out

http://www.anh-europe.org/news/trolls-agents-and-forum-spies-how-dissent-is-controlled-on-the-internet
"I have participated in this system to earn extra cash. It was during the gulf oil spill.
I was hired by a private firm, given a list of talking points, websites and more, signed a contract and that was it.
For $25 an hour I was to push the conversation minimizing the ecological impact.
The moment my task was clear I quit. I have known several people who are in the Alt-medicine bashing regime.
They become converts and their work become a personal war. But big oil was not worth the cost of my soul. They are indefensible."

http://beforeitsnews.com/obama/2013/06/before-its-new-under-attack-how-to-spot-an-obot-2452544.html

[parocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus:

Ah, you're saying the military could be planning on changing the content of Wikipedia to its liking?

[better-dead-than-fed]

Kokesh is likely a troll.

Troll as in a creature only young children believe in, or troll as in you had an adverse emotional response to him? Either way, what's the relevance of your description of Kokesh?

[better-dead-than-fed]

..

[parocks]

Troll as in a creature only young children believe in, or troll as in you had an adverse emotional response to him? Either way, what's the relevance of your description of Kokesh?

eh, it was in the context of the argument. someone argued that Kokesh supporters could be seen as worth watching, and I was arguing against that idea. It's not something I really want to get into. Ron Paul has banned Kokesh from Ron Paul events. So, this isn't my unique theory.

[better-dead-than-fed]

It's not something I really want to get into.

I won't take it personally if you don't reply to this.


someone argued that Kokesh supporters could be seen as worth watching, and I was arguing against that idea.

I got that part, but I don't get how calling him "troll" would make his supporters less interesting to the government.


Ron Paul has banned Kokesh from Ron Paul events.

I have heard that before, but I don't see why anyone believes it. Is there any public record of Ron Paul doing any such thing? Is there any testimony from anyone who witnessed Ron Paul do any such thing? I have seen this:


http://i39.tinypic.com/335e2c7.jpg

but I don't see the significance; was it actually authorized by Ron Paul? I have seen this:


Ron Paul endoorsed his congressioal run.

and then nothing showing Ron Paul ever retracted the endorsement or otherwise denounced Kokesh.

Moreover, I would not take Ron Paul's actions as any reflection on Kokesh. Kokesh should be held accountable for his own actions, not for Ron Paul's actions.

I have seen the issue come up continually, usually raised by people suggesting that Kokesh is somehow undermining liberty, which I find absurd.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Ah, you're saying the military could be planning on changing the content of Wikipedia to its liking?

I would, if I were an unscrupulous, unchecked government.

p.s. I am also saying the government could be wrongfully clicking "report abuse" on Twitter to silence awesome tweets:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?427848-Interesting-Twitter-Feature

and I am also saying the government could be mass down-voting awesome beliefs, theories, arguments, and rhetoric on reddit:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?424601-Interesting-Reddit-Feature

[puppetmaster]

So, if the government pays trolls to post, how do you know the source of this article isn't a paid troll?

It's those elusive top secret reverse conspiracy trolls.

Oh it's only a paid troll when they disagree with you, I get it. :rolleyes:
Do you feel this is beyond the ability or not in the interest of a government?

Tactics like these have been used in the past by government and control of the media is a proven strategy.

[A Son of Liberty]

My take is that RPF is, while a site I generally enjoy posting and reading, for all intents and purposes an internet backwater with probably less than 100 regular, high post-count members who have rarely if ever even hinted at violence.

As for Ron Paul, it's clear that they deal with him via the media, by mocking and belittling him. The entire social paradigm is set up in opposition to his views anyway.

[FloralScent]

My take is that RPF is, while a site I generally enjoy posting and reading, for all intents and purposes an internet backwater with probably less than 100 regular, high post-count members who have rarely if ever even hinted at violence.

As for Ron Paul, it's clear that they deal with him via the media, by mocking and belittling him. The entire social paradigm is set up in opposition to his views anyway.


A propensity for violence is not a prerequisite, nor is the size of the group. When Sunstein expressed his desire to infiltrate bowling leagues, I don't think he was joking. We might as well be living in the old East German surveillance state.

[better-dead-than-fed]

RPF is, while a site I generally enjoy posting and reading, for all intents and purposes an internet backwater with probably less than 100 regular, high post-count members who have rarely if ever even hinted at violence.

Sunstein's statements show that the government does not measure threat-level in terms of "hints at violence" alone. Specifically, Sunstein advocates the active suppression of:

skepticism about the government’s assertions;
beliefs that "hamper political support for measures against future terrorist attacks"; and
the belief that the ruling regime is violating the constitution.



Our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that... believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice....

Within a network whose members believe that the federal government, say, is a hostile and morally repellent organization that is taking over the country, akin to a foreign invader, armed resistance will seem a sensible course to at least some fraction of the believers. In other, perhaps more common, cases the conspiracy theory will be of a different nature and will not directly indicate such action. However, such theories can still have pernicious effects from the government’s point of view, either by inducing unjustifiably widespread public skepticism about the government’s assertions, or by dampening public mobilization and participation in government-led efforts, or both. The widespread belief that U.S. officials knowingly allowed 9/11 to happen or even brought it about may have hampered the government’s efforts to mobilize social resources and political support for measures against future terrorist attacks. In the nature of things it is hard to find evidence for, or against, such possibilities; yet it hardly seems sensible to say that because such evidence is lacking, government should do nothing about a potentially harmful conspiracy theory. That precept would be paralyzing....

Cognitive infiltration...

Government might undertake (legal) tactics for breaking up the tight cognitive clusters of extremist theories, arguments and rhetoric....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

[tod evans]

We might as well be living in the old East German surveillance state.

I believe "our government" is one or two up on the Stasi given the advances in both technology and weaponry...

[oyarde]

They seem to hope that people will trust what they say and not double check their sources. I have found that to be the case in many of their articles. I guess anybody who questions what they write is some sort of troll- either working for the government or "Big Pharma".

In the large scheme , :) it may not matter , I can just make shit up( that I think plausible) , with no sources , but in a yr or two , the facts will come out and it will be true.....

[A Son of Liberty]

A propensity for violence is not a prerequisite, nor is the size of the group. When Sunstein expressed his desire to infiltrate bowling leagues, I don't think he was joking. We might as well be living in the old East German surveillance state.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm well assured that this state (any state) can and will perpetrate any manner of evil.

My contribution to this thread has mainly been to point out that just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they're are being paid to do so.

[oyarde]

I am here for the recipes.I remain unconvinced that many people really believe in limited govt . I suspect many just like the sound of it. They just do not want to pay for the services they use :).I am a known extremist , I do not want to pay for them or use them, lol

[Dary]

I vaguely remember the fed gov / ONDCP getting busted for paying certain television producers to include anti-drug messages in their programming. If I remember correctly, King of the Hill was one of them. This reminds me of that absent the tracking.

Yep: http://cannabisnews.com/news/8/thread8126.shtml

[Barrex]

I felt disturbance in the force and it led me here.

WTF people? Pages of trolling accusations and my name is not mentioned one single time?

http://captionsearch.com/pix/thumb/q0ptioka8a-t.jpg



OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
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OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
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OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!

[Athan]

Start making lists folks, the other side is !!
Yup. Start at home. Scout out potential problem folks.

[erowe1]

Not sure if serious or trolling...

Not sure if this is either...

[dannno]

Here's the thing - good government-paid trolls wouldn't be wrong all the time.

Ya fortunately the government can be pretty inept at times.

[dannno]

Well, here's the thing--there are Fed trolls, of course there are. This is how they've busted people who operate in Bitcoin, Anonymous and probably other orgs--this is known, so the logical conclusion is that OF COURSE they are monitoring chatrooms and probably disrupting some things. But, as of this point, I still believe (due to things like their budget), that it's only much higher-level stuff than YouTube, RPF's, etc.

They are looking to bust big players and take everything they have while making an example of them. The NSA's programs will make it easier to eventually go after smaller and smaller targets for far less effort.

Well that's a fair opinion but I don't agree at all. We are the solution to them being the problem of big government tyranny that they are profiting from, if you don't think that is true then why do you promote the freedom philosophy? Of course they are going to focus on us. We are their central focus, in fact. Not only do they focus on us, they employ people like Glenn Beck just to get people from our movement thinking that their ideas are going mainstream and to misdirect their focus, but also to prevent some people from coming to us altogether due to being painted as fringe so they just stick with the mainstream versions of our movement. So when they focus their efforts elsewhere, really they are still focused square on us. When the progressive who wants to restore our civil liberties, end the war on drugs and end all of the overseas wars is being taught at school that government needs to be more universal and have more power to distribute wealth, guess who they are focused on? Us. Because they agree with us on pretty much everything except wealth distribution. So if you don't think they would throw some resources in our direction, specifically, well, I don't know why that would make any sense.

[parocks]

Sunstein's statements show that the government does not measure threat-level in terms of "hints at violence" alone. Specifically, Sunstein advocates the active suppression of:

skepticism about the government’s assertions;
beliefs that "hamper political support for measures against future terrorist attacks"; and
the belief that the ruling regime is violating the constitution.



http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

Yeah, it has nothing to do with violence. The Government isn't afraid that Ron Paul supporters are violent. They just don't want people voting against more government.

Our arguments say things like

1) The FedGov is bad because they pay people to troll on message boards.

Their response is to

1) Pay people to troll on message boards.

[parocks]

During the campaign right up until the RNC, and shortly after it, you used the Maine GOP as THE example everyone should have followed because they "did what they were told by the campaign".

Did you only recently discover Mark Willis' past occupation?

Have you attempted to discuss it with him?

"During the campaign right up until the RNC, and shortly after it, you used the Maine GOP as THE example everyone should have followed because they "did what they were told by the campaign"."

You are correct. I am disillusioned about this. There clearly was a failure. I would be interested to know where to point the finger of blame. Brakey and/or the National Campaign. Willis was not properly vetted. Brakey isn't necessarily going to know to look out for things like INSCOM/NSA on a resume, but the National Campaign should. So, Brakey is somewhat to blame for putting up a bad candidate and the National Campaign is somewhat to blame for not rejecting the bad candidate.
I am not pleased.

"Did you only recently discover Mark Willis' past occupation?"

Yes. About a month ago. When he quit, writing an article where it said, explicitly, former "counterintelligence" in his bio. Bangor Daily News.

This is not to say that this information just became available. I have no idea when this information became available. There's at least some degree of trust that the people who are tasked by the campaign will try to avoid giving prime jobs to people who worked for INSCOM/NSA. In terms of getting Mark Willis elected, the 1118 were handed a list of people to vote for on that day in Augusta in May.

"Have you attempted to discuss it with him?"

No. I've never interacted w/ him. His wife, Violet, I've communicated with online, facebook, message boards, and she's difficult. I saw red flags with her as early as the Washington Co. Caucus.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Hey, Guess What! Turkey does it too!


http://www.dailydot.com/news/turkey-twitter-gezi-akp-propaganda/

[amy31416]

Well that's a fair opinion but I don't agree at all. We are the solution to them being the problem of big government tyranny that they are profiting from, if you don't think that is true then why do you promote the freedom philosophy? Of course they are going to focus on us. We are their central focus, in fact. Not only do they focus on us, they employ people like Glenn Beck just to get people from our movement thinking that their ideas are going mainstream and to misdirect their focus, but also to prevent some people from coming to us altogether due to being painted as fringe so they just stick with the mainstream versions of our movement. So when they focus their efforts elsewhere, really they are still focused square on us. When the progressive who wants to restore our civil liberties, end the war on drugs and end all of the overseas wars is being taught at school that government needs to be more universal and have more power to distribute wealth, guess who they are focused on? Us. Because they agree with us on pretty much everything except wealth distribution. So if you don't think they would throw some resources in our direction, specifically, well, I don't know why that would make any sense.

Here's where the disagreement lies: they are likely to go after those of us who DO something real that threatens them. Lots of libertarians on Bitcoin forums, any idea how much easier and potentially more fruitful it is to go after a libertarian conducting business in BTC on Silk Road? Or are they going to waste their time here, reading about shitty cops who piss us off and see how much we do or don't donate to various candidates. How about the libertarians in Anonymous chat rooms possibly plotting an attack on a bank or gov't vs. the libertarians in our chat rooms arguing about age of consent laws? We're boring, not breaking any laws, only cheering some on who choose to.

And, as I mentioned, they won't need to use those resources after all the stuff they have goes live--they'll have all this data analyzed by computers and start putting resources in whatever direction the computers send them.

So no, I don't think they put any resources towards us at this point in time.

[CaseyJones]

we are actually arguing about pets in star wars costumes in chat atm

[MelissaWV]

we are actually arguing about pets in star wars costumes in chat atm

Oh there is no argument.

http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/atatdog01.jpg
http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/bwe/images/2011/10/STAR-WARS-DOG-COSTUME-40-1318362481.jpg
http://www.vh1.com/celebrity/bwe/images/2011/10/STAR-WARS-DOG-COSTUME-22-1318362074.jpg

[amy31416]

we are actually arguing about pets in star wars costumes in chat atm

I stand corrected and am now convinced that we're being monitored. :D

[better-dead-than-fed]

Here's where the disagreement lies: they are likely to go after those of us who DO something real that threatens them. Lots of libertarians on Bitcoin forums, any idea how much easier and potentially more fruitful it is to go after a libertarian conducting business in BTC on Silk Road? Or are they going to waste their time here, reading about shitty cops who piss us off and see how much we do or don't donate to various candidates. How about the libertarians in Anonymous chat rooms possibly plotting an attack on a bank or gov't vs. the libertarians in our chat rooms arguing about age of consent laws? We're boring, not breaking any laws, only cheering some on who choose to.

And, as I mentioned, they won't need to use those resources after all the stuff they have goes live--they'll have all this data analyzed by computers and start putting resources in whatever direction the computers send them.

So no, I don't think they put any resources towards us at this point in time.

amy, why do you assume the government is condoning lawful speech by lawful persons, when Sunstein has shown the opposite? You are failing to come to terms with the actual content of Sunstein's program.

[A Son of Liberty]

amy, why do you assume the government is condoning lawful speech by lawful persons, when Sunstein has shown the opposite? You are failing to come to terms with the actual content of Sunstein's program.

Why are you making this algebra when it's little more than addition/subtraction?

[amy31416]

amy, why do you assume the government is condoning lawful speech by lawful persons, when Sunstein has shown the opposite? You are failing to come to terms with the actual content of Sunstein's program.

I have not read your posts beyond seeing that you were addressing me.

[better-dead-than-fed]

I have not read your posts beyond seeing that you were addressing me.

If you do read Sunstein's statements, you will see that you are confusing the issue. This thread is not about some effort of the government to find crime or criminals.

[better-dead-than-fed]

Why are you making this algebra when it's little more than addition/subtraction?

Son of Liberty, huh?

[amy31416]

amy, if you do read Sunstein's statements, you will see that you are confusing the issue. This thread is not about some effort of the government to find crime or criminals.

You haven't made your case very effectively, I don't even know what you're talking about and your posts weren't interesting enough to read, aside from the ones where you're upset that I'm not reading them.

I just put my kid to bed, I'm exhausted and had to spend time with in-laws today--I'm just not interested right now.

[A Son of Liberty]

Son of Liberty, huh?

Yeah, I'm a born-child of liberty.

Aren't you the guy I had to explain how just because I live within the boundaries of the claimed territory of the US government that I'm not to blame for what all it does?

[better-dead-than-fed]

Aren't you the guy I had to explain how just because I live within the boundaries of the claimed territory of the US government that I'm not to blame for what all it does?

No. You either have me confused with someone else, or you are remembering wrong.

[better-dead-than-fed]

You haven't made your case very effectively, I don't even know what you're talking about and your posts weren't interesting enough to read, aside from the ones where you're upset that I'm not reading them.

I just put my kid to bed, I'm exhausted and had to spend time with in-laws today--I'm just not interested right now.

You haven't read my posts but somehow you conclude that my case is ineffective. That's kind of flattering.

I'm not actually upset by your ignorance of Sunstein's statements:


Sunstein's statements show that the government does not measure threat-level in terms of "hints at violence" alone. Specifically, Sunstein advocates the active suppression of:

skepticism about the government’s assertions;
beliefs that "hamper political support for measures against future terrorist attacks"; and
the belief that the ruling regime is violating the constitution.



Our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that... believe that powerful people have worked together in order to withhold the truth about some important practice....

Within a network whose members believe that the federal government, say, is a hostile and morally repellent organization that is taking over the country, akin to a foreign invader, armed resistance will seem a sensible course to at least some fraction of the believers. In other, perhaps more common, cases the conspiracy theory will be of a different nature and will not directly indicate such action. However, such theories can still have pernicious effects from the government’s point of view, either by inducing unjustifiably widespread public skepticism about the government’s assertions, or by dampening public mobilization and participation in government-led efforts, or both. The widespread belief that U.S. officials knowingly allowed 9/11 to happen or even brought it about may have hampered the government’s efforts to mobilize social resources and political support for measures against future terrorist attacks. In the nature of things it is hard to find evidence for, or against, such possibilities; yet it hardly seems sensible to say that because such evidence is lacking, government should do nothing about a potentially harmful conspiracy theory. That precept would be paralyzing....

Cognitive infiltration...

Government might undertake (legal) tactics for breaking up the tight cognitive clusters of extremist theories, arguments and rhetoric....

http://ssrn.com/abstract=1084585

More like I am just noting that your opinion is based in an admitted ignorance of the evidence.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Ah, you're saying the military could be planning on changing the content of Wikipedia to its liking?



"Wikipedia" is edited by anyone and everyone. The site itself acknowledged a couple of years ago that one in every seven edits is vandalism. Kids have fun with this the way we made prank phone calls.

I did an experiment placing bogus information on wikipedia articles. It was absolutely no surprise to see that some of the baloney stayed on there for months. I have no reason to think the bogus crap ever got removed because people moved on to the next big thing.

Some people used to be so gullible that they would believe anything they read in a newspaper. Some people are still gullible. The only thing that has changed is the medium.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/leftist-trolls-in-ongoing-war-with-wnd/

http://darkhorsenet.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/government-social-media-manipulation-and-the-common-and-garden-troll/
I provide this information only to reinforce and warn that WikiLeaks Forum has been completely, as Christine Assange has stated, “infiltrated”.

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/us-military-thugs-with-keyboards-to-spread-propaganda-using-up-to-10-online-personas-each_062013
http://webabuser.blogspot.com/2013/06/internet-trolls-wars-us-military-thugs.html
The online personalities, known as “sock puppets”, will allow the military to “create a false consensus in online conversations, crowd out unwelcome
opinions and smother commentaries or reports that do not correspond with its own objectives.”

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread932095/pg1

http://consciouslifenews.com/cia-media-infiltration-operation-mockingbird-legal-internet-trolls/1147665/
Last year it was confirmed that the U.S. Military has been manipulating social media by using fake identities to influence conversations
and spread pro-American propaganda.
It’s called “Online Persona Management Services.”
Under the Centcom contract, it allows the creation of up to 10 fake online persona’s, known as “sock puppets,”
for every service man or woman working on the program.

According to Centcom, their only objective is to counter extremists and enemy propaganda outside of the U.S.,
saying that it would be unlawful to address U.S. audiences.

However, the 2013 version of the NDAA included an amendment that legalized domestic deceptive propaganda.
The new law allows the U.S government to legally carry out misinformation campaigns against U.S. citizens.


Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
The US military is developing software that will let it secretly manipulate social media sites by using fake online personas
to influence internet conversations and spread pro-American propaganda.


http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5
The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would
legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.

If the NDAA goes into effect in its current form, the State Department and Pentagon can go beyond manipulating mainstream media outlets
and directly disseminate campaigns of misinformation to the U.S. public.


You got anything else besides nonsense written by housewives working at home for extra income?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I didn't read that stuff. I'm trying to find as many links as I can to this material. It's very possible that some of those things in those articles are wrong. I didn't right them. I'm not claiming that those articles are 100% accurate. At all. Just relevant to this conversation.

So your relevance is a bunch of stuff of which you don't even know the content.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Huh?



You put your Reddit thread in Politics and it was moved to Science and Technology.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

"During the campaign right up until the RNC, and shortly after it, you used the Maine GOP as THE example everyone should have followed because they "did what they were told by the campaign"."

You are correct. I am disillusioned about this. There clearly was a failure. I would be interested to know where to point the finger of blame. Brakey and/or the National Campaign. Willis was not properly vetted. Brakey isn't necessarily going to know to look out for things like INSCOM/NSA on a resume, but the National Campaign should. So, Brakey is somewhat to blame for putting up a bad candidate and the National Campaign is somewhat to blame for not rejecting the bad candidate.
I am not pleased.

"Did you only recently discover Mark Willis' past occupation?"

Yes. About a month ago. When he quit, writing an article where it said, explicitly, former "counterintelligence" in his bio. Bangor Daily News.

This is not to say that this information just became available. I have no idea when this information became available. There's at least some degree of trust that the people who are tasked by the campaign will try to avoid giving prime jobs to people who worked for INSCOM/NSA. In terms of getting Mark Willis elected, the 1118 were handed a list of people to vote for on that day in Augusta in May.

"Have you attempted to discuss it with him?"

No. I've never interacted w/ him. His wife, Violet, I've communicated with online, facebook, message boards, and she's difficult. I saw red flags with her as early as the Washington Co. Caucus.

You mean wikipedia or those "blogs" didn't have the answer?

[MelissaWV]

I'm not sure how this is news. This has been going on since the very beginning of the internet.

[Danke]

I just put my kid to bed, I'm exhausted and had to spend time with in-laws today--I'm just not interested right now.

How is Kludge these days?

[dannno]

Amy, the government likes enemies of the state who commit crimes against them that they can prosecute for because they can posture up and put a lot of ideological propaganda out there, I'm not sure why you think the government has much interest in 'stopping' them, they generally try and provoke them and then control the situation..

But the point bdtf is making is that they are in an ideological battle, not a criminal battle, that is why they have people here. Maybe not a lot, all the time, but I imagine there are at least a couple semi-regulars and then when you have events like Boston Bombing or a lead up to Syria, more come out of the woodworks.

[revned]

Ahem, Doug Wead.

He was a shill for the Bush campaign back when Bush was running for office. What kind of shill, I do not know, but he claims to have been a shill nonetheless.

Yeah, there are no such thing as shills. Pay no mind to the ever increasing encroachments of our liberty and how dangerously close we are to a second revolution. Government would never hire people to try and sway public opinion to ensure that they keep their control over a failing system of government. COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were only legitimately implemented to stir up a hornet nest of conspiracy theories. Yeah... that sounds about right.

[parocks]

If you do read Sunstein's statements, you will see that you are confusing the issue. This thread is not about some effort of the government to find crime or criminals.

Right. I find it interesting that some people are missing this, or pretending to miss this.

[parocks]

You mean wikipedia or those "blogs" didn't have the answer?

I have no idea when Willis got a wiki page. I have no idea what Willis told Brakey the first time he met him. Did he say "I was a spy for INSCOM and the NSA for 10 years, I should be National Committeeman." At some point I was aware that he worked for the military in some capacity. Working for the Military isn't a red flag. I can imagine a number of soldiers who would fight in wars might prefer a candidate who wanted fewer wars. However, someone who is part of the humongous spy apparatus in the DC area would not want to see someone who wanted to slash his employers budget elected. It just doesn't make sense.

[parocks]

So your relevance is a bunch of stuff of which you don't even know the content.

I know it's on point. It's hard to find things on point.

You do know, right, that people post links to things they agree with. And disagree with. And that's always been the case. I'm posting relevant links. They're on the right topic. I'm not vouching for their accuracy. You can decide for yourself.

[amy31416]

How is Kludge these days?

Still breathing.

[amy31416]

Amy, the government likes enemies of the state who commit crimes against them that they can prosecute for because they can posture up and put a lot of ideological propaganda out there, I'm not sure why you think the government has much interest in 'stopping' them, they generally try and provoke them and then control the situation..

But the point bdtf is making is that they are in an ideological battle, not a criminal battle, that is why they have people here. Maybe not a lot, all the time, but I imagine there are at least a couple semi-regulars and then when you have events like Boston Bombing or a lead up to Syria, more come out of the woodworks.

I said my piece, I won't be nagged into it further. I created a reading and counting curriculum for my 2+ year old and she's started reading within just a couple weeks, I think that's more important.

(yeah, i'm bragging.)

[Deborah K]

I felt disturbance in the force and it led me here.

WTF people? Pages of trolling accusations and my name is not mentioned one single time?

http://captionsearch.com/pix/thumb/q0ptioka8a-t.jpg



OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!
OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!

http://i27.tinypic.com/4j6nu8.jpg

[dannno]

Back in the 60s and 70s it was documented that the CIA would infiltrate small peaceful organizations and try to get them to do violent things. These were groups of like 20 or 30 people.

There are thousands of visitors here every day and we had a huge community during the elections. Some people here are preparing to defend themselves during a possible civil war. There is no way in hell this place is empty of feds, that is just completely preposterous.

[JoshLowry]

http://i27.tinypic.com/4j6nu8.jpg

http://www.columbuspolice.org/Units/TEW%20Info/recognizing_sleepers_word2007trifold.pdf

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/358624

Somebody make a new FPIAC doc.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I have no idea when Willis got a wiki page. I have no idea what Willis told Brakey the first time he met him. Did he say "I was a spy for INSCOM and the NSA for 10 years, I should be National Committeeman." At some point I was aware that he worked for the military in some capacity. Working for the Military isn't a red flag. I can imagine a number of soldiers who would fight in wars might prefer a candidate who wanted fewer wars. However, someone who is part of the humongous spy apparatus in the DC area would not want to see someone who wanted to slash his employers budget elected. It just doesn't make sense.



Maybe it's because Willis associates with--uh, what did the co-chair of RNC call it?--oh yeah, the wrong people. Maybe it has nothing to do with conspiracy but just good old fashioned prejudice.



http://waldo.villagesoup.com/center/news


News sources were recently afire with the defection of Mark Willis from the Republican Party. Willis ran for chair of the Republican National Committee earlier in the year, only to be defeated by Reince Priebus. Supporters of Willis immediately cried foul, to the extent that prominent Republicans ignored the will of its members, and instead installed a status quo candidate.

New revelations have uncovered that Willis' support from the "wrong groups" might have gotten in the way. That is at least the sentiment from RNC co-chair, Sharon Day. Day was recently quoted by a Boston newspaper, saying, in effect, that the will of the people is usually done. Day said that many in the party were very uncomfortable with Willis's support from LAMBDA, an organization that provides legal defense and counsel to LGBT persons.

Day maintains that the Republican Party is still a big tent organization, but lamented the vocal support Willis received from LAMBDA. "Many in our party are still not comfortable with certain groups being very vocal regarding candidate support," she said. She continued by saying that she personally had no problem with it; however she cautioned that "...if those with the purse strings are uncomfortable, then you're going to have a hard time winning anything. Some of these people start to question your personal motivations and separating that from professional affiliation." Day declined to comment if the funders were questioning anything regarding Willis' personal life, only saying that Willis has been married a long time with two children.

The recent revelations, once again, stir the debate on whether the Grand Old Party is really focused on becoming a truly big tent party, or if the old prejudices will continue to plague it. Day is seemingly one of the minority of Republicans who are optimistic, but others, such as the Tea Party, may have ushered in a new era. Day acknowledged that it remains to be seen if 2016 will result in a serious fracturing, and perhaps a total rethinking of the party's place in American politics.

[UWDude]

Of course there are paid government shills. They are all over youtube. They tend to have no videos in their playlist and history, or have a list of music videos they watched a few months before the recent post.

And when it's revealed by a whistleblower or FOIA documents, we'll hear a bunch of apologists make excuses, or tell us, "well duh, I think everybody already knew that, it just makes sense the government would do that" just like they did when Snowden revealed the NSA is spying on everyone and recording everything.

[BlackTerrel]

Of course there are paid government shills. They are all over youtube. They tend to have no videos in their playlist and history, or have a list of music videos they watched a few months before the recent post.

And when it's revealed by a whistleblower or FOIA documents, we'll hear a bunch of apologists make excuses, or tell us, "well duh, I think everybody already knew that, it just makes sense the government would do that" just like they did when Snowden revealed the NSA is spying on everyone and recording everything.

To what benefit are they posting on youtube? Has public opinion ever shifted based on comments on youtube?

I don't think any opinion has ever shifted over those comments. It's just people trolling each other for the most part.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

To what benefit are they posting on youtube? Has public opinion ever shifted based on comments on youtube?

I don't think any opinion has ever shifted over those comments. It's just people trolling each other for the most part.

Some of those youtube comments scroll faster than the toilet paper roll in my house. One comment might be read by 5 people on a viral video.

Some people actually think that a viral video with 2 million hits in a few days was organically viewed by almost 2 million different people. It's kind of like those internet reviewers of movies, books, and products who review things they've never viewed, used, touched, or even heard of.

[UWDude]

To what benefit are they posting on youtube? Has public opinion ever shifted based on comments on youtube?

I don't think any opinion has ever shifted over those comments. It's just people trolling each other for the most part.

Public opinion has shifted greatly because of comments all over the internet. It is serious business, and probably one of the most influential shapers of public opinion. That's why the united states is not bombing Syria right now. It's not because the MSM told everyone about the rebels being al-queada, and it's not because people are looking for videos of al queada in Syria. It's because people are posting links all over social media, forums, and youtube, and battling each other.

[Occam's Banana]

Ahem, Doug Wead.

He was a shill for the Bush campaign back when Bush was running for office. What kind of shill, I do not know, but he claims to have been a shill nonetheless.

Yeah, there are no such thing as shills. Pay no mind to the ever increasing encroachments of our liberty and how dangerously close we are to a second revolution. Government would never hire people to try and sway public opinion to ensure that they keep their control over a failing system of government. COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were only legitimately implemented to stir up a hornet nest of conspiracy theories. Yeah... that sounds about right.

Doug Wead was a "debate shill" - i.e., he was a "stand in" for Bush's debate opponents in practice sessions before a presidential debate. Wead would pretend to be one of the opponents Bush would face in the debate and try to trip Bush up and such like things. People who play those roles in debate preparations are called "debate shills" (or merely "shills") - it has nothing to do with the kind of shills and shillings being discussed in this thread.

[BlackTerrel]

Public opinion has shifted greatly because of comments all over the internet. It is serious business, and probably one of the most influential shapers of public opinion. That's why the united states is not bombing Syria right now. It's not because the MSM told everyone about the rebels being al-queada, and it's not because people are looking for videos of al queada in Syria. It's because people are posting links all over social media, forums, and youtube, and battling each other.

It's a reach. Most Americans don't know what is happening in Syria and don't care. They just don't want to use American money or people on a conflict we have no side in.

BTW why did all those MSM polls come out and tell us that the vast majority of Americans were against intrevention in Syria?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

There's always a lot of factors that go into these things. There is no doubt that telecommunications like the internet play a part. The once monopolized media now has to compete with sources like Youtube. You now see the mainstream new sources sometimes following the lead of alternative new sources.

You can't discount Russia. There is a reason those senators wrote that letter to Lew to try to put the squeeze on Russian banks' money. You also just don't casually and aggressively engage countries like Syria and Iran.

Some of it is also just the force of history. The cyclical nature of things means Asia is going up, and we're going down. I've said for a long time that the US has been on the decline since 1960. Most notable is the general falloff of GDP since that time. People are now finally starting to recognize that Iraq was really just another version Vietnam, in that we are desperately trying to stop the setting sun on the American empire. You just can't build an empire by enslaving a whole race of one people and committing genocide on another race. The chickens have now come home to roost, and no amount of propaganda can change that reality.

The focus has definitely turned inward. We have turned on one another like a mother eating her young, and some in the world like that just fine. A collapsing America will mean more desperation and more government paranoia. Everybody is a potential enemy. Telecommunications and history however, have come together at the right moment. Some Americans will still try in vain to stop the collapse, but the inertia will be too much for anyone and everyone.

[UWDude]

It's a reach. Most Americans don't know what is happening in Syria and don't care. They just don't want to use American money or people on a conflict we have no side in.

There have always been large swaths of people that knew little of politics. This is nothing new.


BTW why did all those MSM polls come out and tell us that the vast majority of Americans were against intrevention in Syria?

They tried their best to make it look like it was close in many cases... ...but the comments sections in every news story on the internet made sure they couldn't fudge it too much. Read any comment section about Syria, and note the overwhelming majority opposing. Any body that ever read a comments sections will notice that 95% of the comments oppose intervention, for a host of reasons.

But believe me, the media tried to hide it, the media tried to make the polls look close, the media tried to make it look like polls were trending towards support, but in the end, the MSM failed. The oft quoted "only 9% support it" poll showed more than 9% support. Many polls showed over 40% support for some sort of intervention, but in all the comments, in social media, everywhere on the internet, it was and is clear to anyone the numbers are far, far lower than 40 or even 20%.

The MSM has failed. And a failure this catastrophic means that they will never come back. But that doesn't mean the CIA, NSA et al are just going to give up and cede the propaganda machine's controls to the people. Nope, they will try and astro turf like the cheap lie peddlers they are.

No amount of paid shills can stop a mass mutiny like that.

[pcosmar]

Somebody make a new FPIAC doc.

As I remember (and I am getting old) I wanted to make the FPIAC a bit broader,, and not focused on just Missouri. ;)

[BlackTerrel]

They tried their best to make it look like it was close in many cases... ...but the comments sections in every news story on the internet made sure they couldn't fudge it too much. Read any comment section about Syria, and note the overwhelming majority opposing. Any body that ever read a comments sections will notice that 95% of the comments oppose intervention, for a host of reasons.

But believe me, the media tried to hide it, the media tried to make the polls look close, the media tried to make it look like polls were trending towards support, but in the end, the MSM failed. The oft quoted "only 9% support it" poll showed more than 9% support. Many polls showed over 40% support for some sort of intervention, but in all the comments, in social media, everywhere on the internet, it was and is clear to anyone the numbers are far, far lower than 40 or even 20%.

The MSM has failed. And a failure this catastrophic means that they will never come back. But that doesn't mean the CIA, NSA et al are just going to give up and cede the propaganda machine's controls to the people. Nope, they will try and astro turf like the cheap lie peddlers they are.

No amount of paid shills can stop a mass mutiny like that.

Why were the comments sections so overwhelming when the fed government is hiring so many internet trolls?

I also don't think internet comments are necessarily representative. Most people don't comment and I don't think most even read the comments. Many youtube videos will have 3 million views and 5,000 comments (made by 1,000 people). It's a specific demo that comments and reads the comments - it isn't necessarily representative of the people who are actually reading the story.

[HOLLYWOOD]

http://www.columbuspolice.org/Units/TEW%20Info/recognizing_sleepers_word2007trifold.pdf

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/358624

Somebody make a new FPIAC doc.lol... same regurgitated shit. Sounds like it's right out of the Gestapo/SS-Stasi-Министерство внутренних дел Российской Федерации-NKVD/KGB handbooks. These are the exact policies the U.S. was fighting and routinely was headlined public mockery during the Cold War. Just goes to show you, ANY excuse and reason will be given to maintain absolute control on everyone and set the dialectic for the 'Enemy of the State'.


Attitude Indicators:

* Excusing violence against Americans on
the grounds that American actions
provoked the problem
* Fury at the West for reasons ranging from
personal problems to global policies of the
U.S.
* Conspiracy theories about Westerners (e.g.
the CIA arranged for 9/11 to legitimize the
invasion of foreign lands)

[UWDude]

Why were the comments sections so overwhelming when the fed government is hiring so many internet trolls?



No amount of paid shills can stop a mass mutiny like that.




I also don't think internet comments are necessarily representative. Most people don't comment and I don't think most even read the comments. Many youtube videos will have 3 million views and 5,000 comments (made by 1,000 people). It's a specific demo that comments and reads the comments - it isn't necessarily representative of the people who are actually reading the story.

yes. the demographic that cares. we have already discussed that there will always be large swaths of the population that do not care about politics, and that demographic is irrelevant to this conversation.

[TheGrinch]

I'm not sure how this is news. This has been going on since the very beginning of the internet.

This. And it's not like that many have to be paid. There are plenty of willing participants. 2PRTY4TW!!!

[Carson]

Back in the 60s and 70s it was documented that the CIA would infiltrate small peaceful organizations and try to get them to do violent things. These were groups of like 20 or 30 people.

There are thousands of visitors here every day and we had a huge community during the elections. Some people here are preparing to defend themselves during a possible civil war. There is no way in hell this place is empty of feds, that is just completely preposterous.

I remember a story from back in the sixties where some of the ■■■ or others infiltrated the Ku Klux Klan and the American Nazi Party during the Greensboro Massacre and I'm thinking they gave the orders that turned it in to a mess that got the groups shut down for a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_massacre


Here's that word... and a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

"FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover issued directives governing COINTELPRO, ordering FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders.[10][11] Under Hoover, the agent in charge of COINTELPRO was William C. Sullivan.[12] Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, although himself the target of FBI surveillance[citation needed], personally authorized some of these programs."


greensboro massacre 1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV07Z5C2kHg


I'm also reminded of a some sort of rally a while back where some of the people had sticks and rocks or something and tried to lead a charge but the organizers warned people off that they didn't belong. It turned out they were the police.

I think it's the one down the page where the cops are pretending to arrest the other cop infiltrators to try and get them out safely (Circled shoes.).

http://www.whale.to/c/agents_provocateurs.htm


Not that everyone that is mad as hell and isn't going to take it any more is an agent provocateur.

[BlackTerrel]

yes. the demographic that cares. we have already discussed that there will always be large swaths of the population that do not care about politics, and that demographic is irrelevant to this conversation.

You don't get 90% opposed by people not caring. The majority of people don't post or read the comments in youtube videos. The majority of the population was against Syria war.

There's also the point that I don't think anyone was swayed by those comments. The people posting already opposed invasion. I'd like to hear from someone who supported invasion and changed their mind after reading youtube comments.

[UWDude]

You don't get 90% opposed by people not caring. The majority of people don't post or read the comments in youtube videos. The majority of the population was against Syria war.

Many people do not even answer pollsters. They just hang up. And 90% is an inflated number anyway, peddled by Alex Jones. Find a poll showing 90% of the population opposes action in Syria.


There's also the point that I don't think anyone was swayed by those comments. The people posting already opposed invasion. I'd like to hear from someone who supported invasion and changed their mind after reading youtube comments.

it's not even like that. It is a long process, not a one time comment reading and all of the sudden someone's mind is changed.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No, Grinch, we get the result we get because that is what most people want. The "They" in your private comment is most of the people.

[revned]

Doug Wead was a "debate shill" - i.e., he was a "stand in" for Bush's debate opponents in practice sessions before a presidential debate. Wead would pretend to be one of the opponents Bush would face in the debate and try to trip Bush up and such like things. People who play those roles in debate preparations are called "debate shills" (or merely "shills") - it has nothing to do with the kind of shills and shillings being discussed in this thread.

The fact remains that they hired someone to ingenuinely provoke false arguments and try to trip people up in debates. To say this has nothing to do with internet shills is overlooking the basic fact that they have paid people to engage in similar operations outside of the internet in the past. What's stopping them from doing the same exact thing through the internet? The internet is packed to the teeth with debate and happens to be one of the most influential mediums for political debate in current times. If anything, Wead's involvement as a shill for the Bush campaign shows that the model of the shill remains constant even through the internet.

[Lucille]

FWIW, while reading some essays today, I came across this comment (http://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/dr-rosen-and-the-snowden-effect/#comment-3061):


poppsikle (http://poppsikle.wordpress.com/) says:
When Topix trolls were attacking me 2 years ago in defense of the NSA, they said they were hires of Homeland Security....

[Carson]

Why were the comments sections so overwhelming when the fed government is hiring so many internet trolls?

I also don't think internet comments are necessarily representative. Most people don't comment and I don't think most even read the comments. Many youtube videos will have 3 million views and 5,000 comments (made by 1,000 people). It's a specific demo that comments and reads the comments - it isn't necessarily representative of the people who are actually reading the story.


Saw this on Fark today;


Scientists find that comments on websites shape public opinion and public opinion shapes public policy. Still no cure for Congress


The article;

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments



The comment section;

http://www.fark.com/comments/7946916/Scientists-find-that-comments-on-websites-shape-public-opinion-public-opinion-shapes-public-policy-Still-no-cure-for-Congress

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

If you want to see something monitored in a funny way, then go to wikipedia, look up a medical topic, and change it. Try changing, for example, the article on AIDS. Some doctor or nerd will often change it back within minutes. The "controversy" articles (e.g., AIDS controversy) are almost as big a joke as the entire site itself. They'll take obvious facts regarding these "controversies" and spin them to look just like the mainstream article.

All this is not exactly shilling, but really a better example of how business, government, medical, etc. try to control the information. Some of these articles are viewed by more than one person a minute, so you can be sure somebody is controlling the PR of their organization. Even I have to acknowledge that the site has to be recognized, but a lot is still lost in a morass of poor writing, vandalism, and other things that make it untrustworthy and generally a poor source.