A father sends a perv to the hospital.

[shane77m]

The dad should be given a pat on the back and a medal. It might have been better for him to have shot the guy and claimed self defense. The system is really screwed if the dad gets convicted of a crime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416537/Albuquerque-New-Mexico-dad-Emilio-Chavez-III-arrested-beating-naked-prowler-Dylan-Maho.html


An Albuquerque, New Mexico dad who found a naked prowler peering into his young daughter's room will face charges after seriously beating the peeping tom.


Police say Emilio Chavez III found 29-year-old Dylan Maho naked and making noises near a little girl's window when he chose to exact vigilante justice and beat Maho so badly he was taken to the hospital.

While both men could be convicted of felonies, Chavez could potentially get a longer sentence for what he did to the intruder.


'There's a naked man outside his daughter's window,' Chavez's neighbor Bill Morang told KOAT. 'I think he was well within his rights chasing him down and beating him.'

But the district attorney disagrees. Though police initially let the irate father go free after questioning, he is now charged with aggrevated battery, a felony.



Maho, who remained in the hospital Monday but was upgraded to stable condition, will be formally charged with felony voyeurism upon his release.

According to Justia.com, Chavez could be convicted of a third degree felony. That means he could face up to three years in jail.


The charges against Maho, which amount to a fourth degree felony, a lesser charge than Chavez's, can mean between one and two years in jail.

Chavez told KRQE that he was so angry that night of the alleged intrusion that he doesn't even remember assaulting the man.

Meanwhile, this isn't the first run-in the neighborhood has had with the peeping tom.

'They call him the nudist around here' Morang told KOB.com. 'Apparently he's been looking in other peoples' windows.'

Morang, himself a father, believes the nude man is the same one he says holds sexual parties at a nearby home that he calls 'swinger' parties.

Morang also claims he's found condom rappers in the street and maintained Chavez did exactly what he should have done.


'I would've done a little worse than what happened to him and I think any man or dad would do the same,' Morang said. 'I feel bad for the other guy and I hope nothing bad happens to him for protecting his family. I think he did what's right.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416537/Albuquerque-New-Mexico-dad-Emilio-Chavez-III-arrested-beating-naked-prowler-Dylan-Maho.html#ixzz2eUdb11PQ
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[Christian Liberty]

You're probably right that he should have shot him in this messed up country, but I don't know if that would have worked either.

Apparently only crooks have rights:rolleyes:

[Philhelm]

But the district attorney disagrees.

Surprise, surprise... In some ways, these people are worse than the police.

[qh4dotcom]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

[angelatc]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

Nonsense. Never call the police. People need to stop resorting to the cops .

[Origanalist]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

Ya, screw that. You don't "scare people by pointing a gun at them". Don't point it unless you're going to pull the trigger. And how do you know his daughters life wasn't in danger? How do you know the prick wouldn't come back later and act on his fantasies? I'm 100% with the father on this.

[Origanalist]

Nonsense. Never call the police. People need to stop resorting to the cops .

We can see what happened when the state got wind of it. If the cops don't get you some prosecutor will. Too bad the dad gets screwed for defending his family.

[qh4dotcom]

Nonsense. Never call the police. People need to stop resorting to the cops .

I guess you're right....but the cops arrived anyway after the peeping tom got beat up.

If it's inevitable that they will come then don't make matters worse by resorting to violence.

[ItsTime]

He should have called the cops and increased his chances of getting shot and killed? No way, he did what was right.

[shane77m]

Hopefully the charges will get dropped or the dad will get a jury that is in their right mind and say not guilty.

[specsaregood]

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.


I'm pretty sure you can get charged for just pointing a gun at somebody as well. There is no way to handle this and not risk getting charged other than to call the cops and hope the guy isnt' done with his business before the show up to take notes.

[pcosmar]

Hopefully the charges will get dropped or the dad will get a jury that is in their right mind and say not guilty.

Yup,, Hopefully he will get enough local public support to raise hell with the prosecutors office.. And to remind him that he is elected.

[pcosmar]

I'm pretty sure you can get charged for just pointing a gun at somebody as well. There is no way to handle this and not risk getting charged other than to call the cops and hope the guy isnt' done with his business before the show up to take notes.

Oh there is a way,, but it requires good friends and a remote location.

[specsaregood]

Oh there is a way,, but it requires good friends and a remote location.

I'm pretty sure that still includes the "risk" of getting charged.

[aGameOfThrones]

Police say Emilio Chavez III found 29-year-old Dylan Maho naked and making noises near a little girl's window when he chose to exact vigilante justice and beat Maho so badly he was taken to the hospital.

If you had "Officer" before your name you would not have any problems.

[Origanalist]

I'm pretty sure that still includes the "risk" of getting charged.

The less friends, the lower the risk.

[donnie darko]

While the father's actions are completely understandable (I may have done the same, if I had a daughter), he still took the law into his own hands, and the force was disproportionate. While I hope the law is easy on him, the law is still the law!

[aGameOfThrones]

While the father's actions are completely understandable (I may have done the same, if I had a daughter), he still took the law into his own hands, and the force was disproportionate. While I hope the law is easy on him, the law is still the law!


"There's NO Rule of Law... when the crime that is charged, not based upon what law was broken, but by who committed it."~HOLLYWOOD

[Origanalist]

"There's NO Rule of Law... when the crime that is charged, not based upon what law was broken, but by who committed it."~HOLLYWOOD

That might be a bit much for donnie.

[tod evans]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

BULLSHIT!

The father was 100% right in his behavior, I'd buy him a beer.

If you want to run sniveling to the authorities when some creep peeps at your daughter that's up to you.

I would have done exactly as this father did, possibly even a bit more.

[pcosmar]

, he still took the law into his own hands,!

That is where the law belongs.

http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government.

And I would say that he was quite restrained. The creep still breaths,, and has an opportunity to repent and reform.

[tod evans]

The creep still breaths,,

He's lucky to not be a eunuch.

[Christian Liberty]

While the father's actions are completely understandable (I may have done the same, if I had a daughter), he still took the law into his own hands, and the force was disproportionate. While I hope the law is easy on him, the law is still the law!\

Of course, the communist would be a legal positivist.

If I had a daughter and someone was doing that, the creep wouldn't have had a chance to go to the hospital.

[asurfaholic]

So being consistent here, how does the father deal with a DA that wants to have him kidnapped and thrown in a rape cage, all rights exterminated?

[aGameOfThrones]

So being consistent here, how does the father deal with a DA that wants to have him kidnapped and thrown in a rape cage, all rights exterminated?

Making sure there are plenty of condoms in jail?

[Christian Liberty]

So being consistent here, how does the father deal with a DA that wants to have him kidnapped and thrown in a rape cage, all rights exterminated?

What you suggest may be compatible with the NAP, but it won't help him.

What this man did already helped his daughter.

[pcosmar]

So being consistent here, how does the father deal with a DA that wants to have him kidnapped and thrown in a rape cage, all rights exterminated?

In a more perfect world,, the local community would be at the courthouse,, or his office,, demanding that he not be charged.
And the local papers would be extolling him as a hero who did the community a service.

[jllundqu]

If he gets a jury trial... he's a free man. No jury would convict on this issue. If it's up to a judge, most likely the judge will let him off. However, this will most likely plea down to a misdemeanor battery charge. The dad will pay a fine.... Win WIn.

I would have shot the intruder, personally. Save time and trouble. I could easily defend that action in court.

[asurfaholic]

Lots of " I would have's" in this thread. Gotta talk tough on the internets...

I don't know what I'd do honestly. Kill him? Maybe maybe not. It's more likely based on my mood i would probably just chase him away, then wish I had killed him later.

The more appropriate response would be to beat him to submission, then cut his willy off and shove it down his throat.

[aGameOfThrones]

Lots of " I would have's" in this thread. Gotta talk tough on the internets...

I don't know what I'd do honestly. Kill him? Maybe maybe not. It's more likely based on my mood i would probably just chase him away, then wish I had killed him later.

The more appropriate response would be to beat him to submission, then cut his willy off and shove it down his throat.


Killing him sounds way more humane.

[shane77m]

Though police initially let the irate father go free after questioning, he is now charged with aggrevated battery, a felony.


Morang, himself a father, believes the nude man is the same one he says holds sexual parties at a nearby home that he calls 'swinger' parties.


I wonder if the DA goes to those parties?

[pcosmar]

Lots of " I would have's" in this thread. Gotta talk tough on the internets...

.
You know,, I dislike violence. Though I am in no way a pacifist. In well over 20 years together,, my wife has seen me use violence exactly once.

And she saw what the guy looked like the next day in a courtroom. "Unrecognizable" was the term she used.

He came to my home looking for trouble.. He found me. I am no "billy bad ass". I am a small man.

My home has been a shelter for abused women, and children.

I am unarmed by law,, and regardless,, I will protect those under my care as best as possible.

I would like to believe there are more like me,, and I have met a few in real life.

[dannno]

How old is the little girl? 17? Maybe I missed it. But it wouldn't surprise me.

Either way the beating was justified as long as he didn't go too far and permanently disfigure him or something, the main purpose being to subdue the guy but I can understand why he'd wanna get a few shots in as well so I don't think he should get in trouble for it. But there is a huge difference between this guy peering in on an older teenage girl vs. a child, but the media rarely differentiates.

[shane77m]

How old is the little girl? 17? Maybe I missed it. But it wouldn't surprise me.

Either way the beating was justified as long as he didn't go too far and permanently disfigure him or something, the main purpose being to subdue the guy but I can understand why he'd wanna get a few shots in as well so I don't think he should get in trouble for it. But there is a huge difference between this guy peering in on an older teenage girl vs. a child, but the media rarely differentiates.

Would still be a naked perv peering into my child's window. No difference if they are 5 or 30 to me.

[Christian Liberty]

Would still be a naked perv peering into my child's window. No difference if they are 5 or 30 to me.

I'm not saying the beating wouldn't be justified either way if you think there's a threat, but when its a 5 year old that falls under "Perverts like you shouldn't be left ALIVE" category.

[shane77m]

I'm not saying the beating wouldn't be justified either way if you think there's a threat, but when its a 5 year old that falls under "Perverts like you shouldn't be left ALIVE" category.

I feel that way even if my child is 30.

[dannno]

I feel that way even if my child is 30.

So now you want to kill George McFly? Really?

[heavenlyboy34]

Not sure what I would've done in this situation, but a right hand throat chop followed by breaking at least the shoulder and a severe beating would be appropriate if possible.

[tod evans]

I am unarmed by law,, and regardless,, I will protect those under my care as best as possible.

I would like to believe there are more like me,, and I have met a few in real life.


Normal folk!

[aGameOfThrones]

I feel that way even if my child is 30.


18 yearold girl, by the window, undressing, anyone who walks by can see her. Let's say I decide to bring a chair and watch the show. I'm not in their property, I'm just sitting there watching. Would her parents be justified in beating my ass?

[tod evans]

18 yearold girl, by the window, undressing, anyone who walks by can see her. Let's say I decide to bring a chair and watch the show. I'm not in their property, I'm just sitting there watching. Would her parents be justified in beating my ass?

If you're 45 then hell yes.

If you're 18 then she'll get the asswhuppin, and grounded, and, and.....

[shane77m]

So now you want to kill George McFly? Really?

If George McFly was trying to get his freak on outside my child's window? Then yes.


18 yearold girl, by the window, undressing, anyone who walks by can see her. Let's say I decide to bring a chair and watch the show. I'm not in their property, I'm just sitting there watching. Would her parents be justified in beating my ass?

Apples to oranges compared to the article. Hypothetically I would have to knock some sense into my daughter and get her to close the curtains.

[dannno]

If George McFly was trying to get his freak on outside my child's window? Then yes..

If you may recall, he climbed a tree just outside your 17 going on 18 year old daughter's window with binoculars trying to catch her undressing. He was also in the same age range and eventually would go on to marry your daughter.

Technically just off property, but still close to window and let's assume that he didn't fall out of the tree like a clutz and eventually may have pleasured himself up in the tree.

[aGameOfThrones]

If you're 45 then hell yes.

If you're 18 then she'll get the asswhuppin, and grounded, and, and.....

That's age discrimination.

[kathy88]

I guess you're right....but the cops arrived anyway after the peeping tom got beat up.

If it's inevitable that they will come then don't make matters worse by resorting to violence.

I don't know one father who wouldn't have done what this man did.

[limequat]

Father did the right thing.
Father did the illegal thing.

It is not legal to assault someone unless in self-defense. The legal thing to do is to call the cops and leave it to them.

This is part of the problem in this country. Nobody understands negative consequences. The Perv does now. Peep at girls. Get beaten an inch within his life, versus the the $500 fine or whatever the cops would dole out.

Cops are more interested in negative consequences for what THEY deem bad behavior: lack of respect, speeding, resisting arrest, etc. Crimes against the state.

[tod evans]

That's age discrimination.

Too fucking bad.

[limequat]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.


"Brandishing" is also a crime.
The punishment should fit the crime, what does the perv deserve?

[shane77m]

"Brandishing" is also a crime.
The punishment should fit the crime, what does the perv deserve?

Forced to stare at a naked Janet Napolitano for the rest of his or her life?

[pcosmar]

"Brandishing" is also a crime.


No,, It is "Against the Law", but it is not a crime in and of itself.

To display a weapon and make it known that violence IS an option is not a crime. It can be used to prevent violence. Or to prevent crime.

Brandishing (the "Law") is a tool for the State to use consolidate it's own power.

[Christian Liberty]

Forced to stare at a naked Janet Napolitano for the rest of his or her life?

That might be a violation of the 8th:p

[asurfaholic]

Forced to stare at a naked Janet Napolitano for the rest of his or her life?

Oh lord and my suggestion was branded "inhumane."

This is just wrong.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Obviously beating him senseless wasn't the politically correct answer. The politically correct one would be to call the police and let them know a naked man is masturbating to their little daughter, then act surprised next week when he hears a scream coming from her bedroom and she is being raped, so he shoots and kills him, but then goes to jail anyway for manslaughter.

[Tod]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

The father had every right to believe that his daughter's life was in danger. Beating the man to within an inch of his life would have been a more than reasonable response (I don't think he went that far). It is too bad he didn't castrate the guy in the process.

[amy31416]

It would make sense to me to beat the snot out of him, and leave him with a clear message that he and every other parent in the neighborhood would be watching his every move from there on, and the consequences for any untoward move toward any of their other children would be far more severe.

Don't call the cops, just get together a neighborhood watch and additional security for the daughter--including the use of a firearm. The creep is unlikely to call the police on the father since it means jail time for him too.

[specsaregood]

How old is the little girl? 17? Maybe I missed it. But it wouldn't surprise me.
Either way the beating was justified as long as he didn't go too far and permanently disfigure him or something, the main purpose being to subdue the guy but I can understand why he'd wanna get a few shots in as well so I don't think he should get in trouble for it. But there is a huge difference between this guy peering in on an older teenage girl vs. a child, but the media rarely differentiates.


So now you want to kill George McFly? Really?


If you may recall, he climbed a tree just outside your 17 going on 18 year old daughter's window with binoculars trying to catch her undressing. He was also in the same age range and eventually would go on to marry your daughter.
Technically just off property, but still close to window and let's assume that he didn't fall out of the tree like a clutz and eventually may have pleasured himself up in the tree.

You can always count on dannno to pop in and come up with some fantasy situation to excuse inappropriate sexual conduct.

[69360]

He should insist on a jury trial. No jury will convict him. The DA will probably plead this out to a misdemeanor and a small fine though.

He should have shot the guy on his property, he probably wouldn't have been charged.

The naked guy will find out what they do to perverts who mess with kids in prison real quick.

[amy31416]

You can always count on dannno to pop in and come up with some fantasy situation to excuse inappropriate sexual conduct.

Every little girl is a Lolita and every old dude is a sad sack, unwittingly seduced Humbert Humbert.

I ran into a little girl named Lolita, I don't think the mom understood my bug-eyed reaction to her name.

[heavenlyboy34]

You can always count on dannno to pop in and come up with some fantasy situation to excuse inappropriate sexual conduct.
If not him, who? ;) lolz

[phill4paul]

I have no problems with the fathers reaction. I might have left him like this though.

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4745978662421060&pid=15.1

[Brian4Liberty]

Perhaps the case could be made that the peeping tom was "resisting (citizen's) arrest"?

[puppetmaster]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

Another no kids person?

[kcchiefs6465]

http://i.imgur.com/4mAFwp4.gif?1

[phill4paul]

Perhaps the case could be made that the peeping tom was "resisting (citizen's) arrest"?

Brilliant!

[Brian4Liberty]

When I was in college, we had a peeping Tom in the neighborhood. Called the cops on him one night at around 3am. They drove by and shined a light about 45 minutes later.

At the end of the year, when a lot of people had already left, he raped the girl (21) who lived downstairs. He had scoped her while peeping.

On second thought after the fact, we should have gotten out of bed and went down and "apprehended" him. Alternatively, it occurred to us it would be an easy shot from our upstairs apartment to make sure he couldn't run away...but thought better of it.

Can't know the future. Are these guys relatively harmless perverts, or potential rapists, kidnappers or murderers? A lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda results. Of course this is often the root "justification" for the all-intrusive, all-knowing Police State, and pre-crime.

[satchelmcqueen]

i would have beat the fuck out of him to.

[Paulbot99]

When this country was founded, it was a matter of course to use your musket in situations like this.

[GunnyFreedom]

The fact that Mr. Chavez is being charged in this case at all is beyond absurd. Still more evidence that the American system of justice is woefully broken. The District Attorney who is defending child exploitation just to notch his belt for an 'easy conviction' needs to lose his job, and the jurors in this case need to be educated on the concept of Jury Nullification.

[Sam I am]

ITT: The JAP - "Justified" Aggression Principle at work.

[GunnyFreedom]

ITT: The JAP - "Justified" Aggression Principle at work.

Self defense and defense of others is not 'aggression,' it is defense. You have a strange notion of aggression.

[Sam I am]

Self defense and defense of others is not 'aggression,' it is defense. You have a strange notion of aggression.

Chasing after someone who wronged you to execute your revenge is not self defense

[PaulConventionWV]

I don't agree with what the father did....he deserves some jail time.

He should have scared the guy by pointing a gun at him and waited for cops to arrive.

People need to quit resorting to violence when their life is not in danger. Only when you are acting in self-defense are you supposed to send someone to the hospital.

Well, then that leaves those of us who don't believe in cops and think they're worse than any offender could ever be for liberty. However, I also don't believe in resorting to violence so easily. The naked man should have been charged, but beating him was pre-emptive to the actual service of justice.

[GunnyFreedom]

Chasing after someone who wronged you to execute your revenge is not self defense

Just popping outside and scaring the guy off is a good way to get your daughter raped. I prefer to actually defend myself and my family against such aggression. You sure as hell won't convince me that Chavez was the aggressor here, to me, that whole notion is well beyond absurd.

[PaulConventionWV]

Ya, screw that. You don't "scare people by pointing a gun at them". Don't point it unless you're going to pull the trigger. And how do you know his daughters life wasn't in danger? How do you know the prick wouldn't come back later and act on his fantasies? I'm 100% with the father on this.

"How do you know?" doesn't constitute a solid argument for initiating aggression. That's the same thing the police say when they kill innocent people and do unconstitutional warrantless searches.

A gun is a line of defense in case someone is violent toward you. If you wield it, you should be ready to use it, but that doesn't mean you have to. Scaring him off probably was the right thing to do, then press charges. That's all you can do. That, or safeguard your home better so no perv would be able to peek in your windows.

[GunnyFreedom]

Well, then that leaves those of us who don't believe in cops and think they're worse than any offender could ever be for liberty. However, I also don't believe in resorting to violence so easily. The naked man should have been charged, but beating him was pre-emptive to the actual service of justice.

I'm not going to say that Chavez didn't go too far -- he certainly could have demonstrated the sanctity of his daughter short of hospitalizing the guy -- but to make Chavez into the aggressor is tantamount to 'just roll over and take it' when people aggress against us. It's obscene, and anathema to security and to justice itself.

[RockEnds]

Chasing after someone who wronged you to execute your revenge is not self defense

Yes it is. Only a complete fool would trust his young daughter's life to the naive assumption that the individual wouldn't come back.

[GunnyFreedom]

Yes it is. Only a complete fool would trust his young daughter's life to the naive assumption that the individual wouldn't come back.

Indeed. All it would really serve to do is make the guy stake out the house and seize onto an opportunity when she was home and he wasn't.

[Antischism]

Disproportionate use of force.

1. The pervert was no longer on the guy's property and was fleeing before being caught and beaten near death.
2. He might have a serious mental issue which needs to be treated. You don't treat a mental illness with a near-death beating. Unless your life is immediately in danger, you don't brutally beat or murder others.
3. You can't accuse a peeping tom of a future crime where he'll escalate and resort to rape. That's like saying the thief who pick-pocketed you is going to invade your home in the future and murder you to steal all of your expensive belongings, therefore they should be beaten near death or murdered before it happens.

I'm not defending the peeping tom, I think he's a sick fuck if not mentally ill. I would have wanted to smash his face in myself, but there are other options. Hell, simply breaking one of his legs would have sufficed.

P.S. (http://www.krqe.com/news/crime/girls-dad-charged-with-beating-alleged-peeper)


Chavez does have a criminal history for child abuse and domestic violence.

Sounds like the father may be just as fucked up as the guy he nearly killed.

[GunnyFreedom]

Disproportionate use of force.

1. The pervert was no longer on the guy's property and was fleeing before being caught and beaten near death.
2. He might have a serious mental issue which needs to be treated. You don't treat a mental illness with a near-death beating. Unless your life is immediately in danger, you don't brutally beat or murder others.
3. You can't accuse a peeping tom of a future crime where he'll escalate and resort to rape. That's like saying the thief who pick-pocketed you is going to invade your home in the future and murder you to steal all of your expensive belongings, therefore they should be beaten near death or murdered before it happens.

Completely untrue. It's more like figuring the guy who is casing your home and testing your locks, keeping a schedule of your comings and goings, and has a trunk full of burglary tools is probably going to burglarize your home.

[Antischism]

Completely untrue. It's more like figuring the guy who is casing your home and testing your locks, keeping a schedule of your comings and goings, and has a trunk full of burglary tools is probably going to burglarize your home.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. One shows a predisposition and the knowledge to break into your home, along with said tools; the other is peeping through a window masturbating. I think the pick-pocket example I gave is much closer, in my opinion.

Regardless, you can't accuse people of escalating in some future crime. In an ideal world without cops, we would jail the perp and while jailed, evaluate their mental health and begin some form of treatment.

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Just popping outside and scaring the guy off is a good way to get your daughter raped. I prefer to actually defend myself and my family against such aggression. You sure as hell won't convince me that Chavez was the aggressor here, to me, that whole notion is well beyond absurd.

I agree with Gunny.

Under the circumstances of what the peeping tom did, a jury will find that a reasonable person would consider it a threat. With that said, beating him within an inch of his life was excessive.

[RockEnds]

Disproportionate use of force.

1. The pervert was no longer on the guy's property and was fleeing before being caught and beaten near death.
2. He might have a serious mental issue which needs to be treated. You don't treat a mental illness with a near-death beating. Unless your life is immediately in danger, you don't brutally beat or murder others.
3. You can't accuse a peeping tom of a future crime where he'll escalate and resort to rape. That's like saying the thief who pick-pocketed you is going to invade your home in the future and murder you to steal all of your expensive belongings, therefore they should be beaten near death or murdered before it happens.

I'm not defending the peeping tom, I think he's a sick fuck if not mentally ill. I would have wanted to smash his face in myself, but there are other options. Hell, simply breaking one of his legs would have sufficed.

P.S. (http://www.krqe.com/news/crime/girls-dad-charged-with-beating-alleged-peeper)



Sounds like the father may be just as fucked up as the guy he nearly killed.

1. Have you ever been raped? You're being naive.

2. Do you want to make his mental issues your daughter's?

3. Yes I can. That is exactly what Locke asserted in his 2nd Treaties on Civil Liberties, and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr03.txt

[Antischism]

1. Have you ever been raped? You're being naive.

2. Do you want to make his mental issues your daughter's?

3. Yes I can. That is exactly what Locke asserted in his 2nd Treaties on Civil Liberties, and I agree with him wholeheartedly.

http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr03.txt

So you believe it's justified to murder people on the basis that they may commit a crime in the future? Or am I misunderstanding.

[RockEnds]

So you believe it's justified to murder people on the basis that they may commit a crime in the future? Or am I misunderstanding.

I believe that if some pervert is naked outside my child's window, he'd better have brought a cell phone to call for help, because he's gonna need it. I believe I love my child far more than I love my own life or his, and I will act accordingly.

[pcosmar]

So you believe it's justified to murder people on the basis that they may commit a crime in the future? Or am I misunderstanding.

If someone has proven to be a threat.. Yes.

I made the mistake of letting a man live many years back..(because I had doubts) I met the young lady this summer that was his victim for 18 years.
Not killing that man is a mistake I live with. And that little child paid for my mistake.

[Antischism]

I believe that if some pervert is naked outside my child's window, he'd better have brought a cell phone to call for help, because he's gonna need it. I believe I love my child far more than I love my own life or his, and I will act accordingly.

It's understandable, believe me. I have a similar relationship with my little sister and the hatred I would feel upon learning that someone caused her any harm would overtake me. However, I believe there are other ways to punish criminals that don't involve murdering them.


If someone has proven to be a threat.. Yes.

I made the mistake of letting a man live many years back..(because I had doubts) I met the young lady this summer that was his victim for 18 years.
Not killing that man is a mistake I live with. And that little child paid for my mistake.

I can't blame you for feeling that way. If you don't mind me asking, what did the man do that you were put in a position to decide whether to let him live or murder him?

[RockEnds]

It's understandable, believe me. I have a similar relationship with my little sister and the hatred I would feel upon learning that someone caused her any harm would overtake me. However, I believe there are other ways to punish criminals that don't involve murdering them.



Understandable. I can't blame you for feeling that way. If you don't mind me asking, what did the man do that you were put in a position to decide whether to let him live or murder him?

Again, have you been raped? I have, and frankly, I'm fresh out of compassion toward such matters. There is nothing I wouldn't do to spare my daughter from such an experience. I would seriously suggest that anyone who sets out to roam a neighborhood naked while gazing into the windows of little girls take into account that not everyone they encounter will be overwhelmed with a desire to assist them in finding mental help.

[pcosmar]

I can't blame you for feeling that way. If you don't mind me asking, what did the man do that you were put in a position to decide whether to let him live or murder him?
He was quite an abusive asshole,, the confrontation came after an assault on my (not yet at the time) Wife,, and threats against her family.

He eventually beat my stepdaughter with a tire iron and forced her to sign away parental rights. (though her mother and I had left the area.)
my warnings were not sufficient. :(

I had a talk with him,,and punctuated my statements and his car.
I can not legally own a firearm,, so the one I made was nowhere near legal.

[GunnyFreedom]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. One shows a predisposition and the knowledge to break into your home, along with said tools; the other is peeping through a window masturbating. I think the pick-pocket example I gave is much closer, in my opinion.

Regardless, you can't accuse people of escalating in some future crime. In an ideal world without cops, we would jail the perp and while jailed, evaluate their mental health and begin some form of treatment.

Means, motive, opportunity, equipment, and a history of surveillance. Cold, unemotional logic puts the example far more in line with mine than yours. We can agree to disagree if you like, but I'm the one trusting logic alone in setting up the simile.

[angelatc]

I guess you're right....but the cops arrived anyway after the peeping tom got beat up.

If it's inevitable that they will come then don't make matters worse by resorting to violence.

I think the only reason things got worse is because the father was naive. If he had told the cops that the guy was trying to attack him, and even threatened to kill him he would be a free man today. Especially since the neighbors would probably back him up.

[Antischism]

Again, have you been raped? I have, and frankly, I'm fresh out of compassion toward such matters. There is nothing I wouldn't do to spare my daughter from such an experience. I would seriously suggest that anyone who sets out to roam a neighborhood naked while gazing into the windows of little girls take into account that not everyone they encounter will be overwhelmed with a desire to assist them in finding mental help.

No, I haven't been raped. I'm close to someone who has been, but I myself haven't. Of course I can understand the lack of compassion and the need to keep these people away from potential victims, but I can't advocate for murdering them as a means to get them to stop or take them off the street. I think jailing them and trying to treat them while imprisoned is a good route. If they aren't receptive, they can remain locked away for a longer period of time as a punishment for the crime. In a less forgiving world, breaking someone's legs is pretty effective, too.


He was quite an abusive asshole,, the confrontation came after an assault on my (not yet at the time) Wife,, and threats against her family.

He eventually beat my stepdaughter with a tire iron and forced her to sign away parental rights. (though her mother and I had left the area.
my warnings were not sufficient. :(

I had a talk with him,,and punctuated my statements and his car.
I can not legally own a firearm,, so the one I made was nowhere near legal.

I'm really sorry to hear that. :[
What an awful situation.

Do you know if he was jailed?

[Antischism]

Here's a question for those of you who are religious or Catholic:

What do you propose be done to priests with a history of child molestation and the hierarchy within the church that protected them (or still protects child abusers with a figurative slap on the wrist)? These are cases much worse than peeping through a window and masturbating.

[tod evans]

Here's a question for those of you who are religious or Catholic:

What do you propose be done to priests with a history of child molestation and the hierarchy within the church that protected them (or still protects child abusers with a figurative slap on the wrist)? These are cases much worse than peeping through a window and masturbating.

As a Christian parent if I catch any adult molesting my child I will beat them.

I can't say when or if I'd stop because the situation hasn't come about.

As far as "The Church" goes priests who molest children should be excommunicated.

You fail to address the issue of "the courts"....Why?

[TaftFan]

Sexual Revolution Option D: Tell the guy great idea and join in.

[pcosmar]

Do you know if he was jailed?
Never, for any of his many crimes.. He seems to have an unholy charm. (he is also suspect in some deaths in his family)
he lives and walks free still. :(

I live with that.

[angelatc]

Yes it is. Only a complete fool would trust his young daughter's life to the naive assumption that the individual wouldn't come back.

Yep. It is not uncommon at all for pedophiles to fall in love with their victims then decide to run away with them. Lots of them end up in graves.

[shane77m]

Here's a question for those of you who are religious or Catholic:

What do you propose be done to priests with a history of child molestation and the hierarchy within the church that protected them (or still protects child abusers with a figurative slap on the wrist)? These are cases much worse than peeping through a window and masturbating.

Castrated in the public square and hung up for all to see. That goes for the Pope as well if he helped cover it up.

[angelatc]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. One shows a predisposition and the knowledge to break into your home, along with said tools; the other is peeping through a window masturbating. I think the pick-pocket example I gave is much closer, in my opinion.

Regardless, you can't accuse people of escalating in some future crime. In an ideal world without cops, we would jail the perp and while jailed, evaluate their mental health and begin some form of treatment.

Sorry, but in my ideal world the real men in the town would kick his ass so hard he'd be puking blood for a week. This limp wristed "let someone else deal with it" crap is ridiculous.

[Origanalist]

You can always count on dannno to pop in and come up with some fantasy situation to excuse inappropriate sexual conduct.

Always. I don't really think he "missed" the age of the girl.

[eduardo89]

Someone needs to find out who his lawyer is and send him jury nullification information. Also somehow send the jury that information as well.

[eduardo89]

How old is the little girl? 17? Maybe I missed it. But it wouldn't surprise me.

In your world there's nothing wrong with what he did as long as the girl is over 13.

[Origanalist]

"How do you know?" doesn't constitute a solid argument for initiating aggression. That's the same thing the police say when they kill innocent people and do unconstitutional warrantless searches.

A gun is a line of defense in case someone is violent toward you. If you wield it, you should be ready to use it, but that doesn't mean you have to. Scaring him off probably was the right thing to do, then press charges. That's all you can do. That, or safeguard your home better so no perv would be able to peek in your windows.

Horseshit. This twit initiated the whole thing, not the father. The only thing that guarantees that this threat doesn't come back and molest the girl is just what happened. It sends a nice message to anybody else considering messing with you and yours too.

[eduardo89]

Here's a question for those of you who are religious or Catholic:

What do you propose be done to priests with a history of child molestation and the hierarchy within the church that protected them (or still protects child abusers with a figurative slap on the wrist)? These are cases much worse than peeping through a window and masturbating.

As a Catholic I think those priests should be turned over the civil authorities, tried, and if found guilty of sexual abuse of a child, executed by hanging in a public square. For those who covered up the crimes, I think they should be sentenced to a life of hard labor in Alaska or the desert.

[Flugel89]

I agree with Gunny.

Under the circumstances of what the peeping tom did, a jury will find that a reasonable person would consider it a threat. With that said, beating him within an inch of his life was excessive.

Agreed. It sure as hell is a threat. About 2 months ago my girlfriends' children came running out of their room around 9ish saying someone in a hoodie was watching them through the window of the apartment. He ran off just as I booked it outside. I know what he looks like, and that he doesnt live in the complex. Our neighbors have seen him break into other apartments. Needless to say if I see him near here again he may not have the chance to run off.

[A_Silent_Majority_Member]

New headline: Mom beats naked super model woman to near death after catching the supermodel peeping into her sons window masturbating and fondling her 36DD's...

SHIzZAM! now what? :P

[Origanalist]

New headline: Mom beats naked super model woman to near death after catching the supermodel peeping into her sons window masturbating and fondling her 36DD's...

SHIzZAM! now what? :P

??

[aGameOfThrones]

Here's a question for those of you who are religious or Catholic:

What do you propose be done to priests with a history of child molestation and the hierarchy within the church that protected them (or still protects child abusers with a figurative slap on the wrist)? These are cases much worse than peeping through a window and masturbating.

I would form a group supporting same sex marriage.

[PaulConventionWV]

Just popping outside and scaring the guy off is a good way to get your daughter raped. I prefer to actually defend myself and my family against such aggression. You sure as hell won't convince me that Chavez was the aggressor here, to me, that whole notion is well beyond absurd.

That's not aggression. How is looking at someone aggression? What would you be defending yourself against? If you can't answer that without indicating how the peeping tom was violent, then you have no case for killing the guy.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not going to say that Chavez didn't go too far -- he certainly could have demonstrated the sanctity of his daughter short of hospitalizing the guy -- but to make Chavez into the aggressor is tantamount to 'just roll over and take it' when people aggress against us. It's obscene, and anathema to security and to justice itself.

Just roll over and take what? What was the guy doing? Look, I'm very sympathetic with Chavez, but the correct course of action is to make him go away and then press charges. You can't defend yourself against a guy who is simply looking into a window that is clearly not covered whilst naked. It is obscene, but it is not aggression.

[Christian Liberty]

OK, if you're masturbating while looking at a five year old, you deserve to be killed on the spot, period. That person is no better than an animal and should be treated accordingly. And any decent anarcho-capitalist society would refuse to lift a finger to help him. Any decent person would refuse to lift a finger to help him.

[PaulConventionWV]

The father had every right to believe that his daughter's life was in danger. Beating the man to within an inch of his life would have been a more than reasonable response (I don't think he went that far). It is too bad he didn't castrate the guy in the process.

Can someone explain to me how he or his daughter were in any danger?

[PaulConventionWV]

When I was in college, we had a peeping Tom in the neighborhood. Called the cops on him one night at around 3am. They drove by and shined a light about 45 minutes later.

At the end of the year, when a lot of people had already left, he raped the girl (21) who lived downstairs. He had scoped her while peeping.

On second thought after the fact, we should have gotten out of bed and went down and "apprehended" him. Alternatively, it occurred to us it would be an easy shot from our upstairs apartment to make sure he couldn't run away...but thought better of it.

Can't know the future. Are these guys relatively harmless perverts, or potential rapists, kidnappers or murderers? A lot of woulda, coulda, shoulda results. Of course this is often the root "justification" for the all-intrusive, all-knowing Police State, and pre-crime.

Apprehend the guy, call the sheriff and press charges.

[Christian Liberty]

It doesn't matter. He was a perverted pedophile. Good riddance.

[PaulConventionWV]

Means, motive, opportunity, equipment, and a history of surveillance. Cold, unemotional logic puts the example far more in line with mine than yours. We can agree to disagree if you like, but I'm the one trusting logic alone in setting up the simile.

Logic also says that's a non-sequitur. A history of surveillance doesn't logically lead to rape as a conclusion.

[PaulConventionWV]

Horseshit. This twit initiated the whole thing, not the father. The only thing that guarantees that this threat doesn't come back and molest the girl is just what happened. It sends a nice message to anybody else considering messing with you and yours too.

He initiated the chain of events that led to violence. He didn't initiate the aggression. The father did that. I think in a just world, peeping would be treated as a crime, but you can't defend yourself against non-violent crimes. Apprehend the guy, then press charges.

[PaulConventionWV]

New headline: Mom beats naked super model woman to near death after catching the supermodel peeping into her sons window masturbating and fondling her 36DD's...

SHIzZAM! now what? :P

I LOL'd.

[Christian Liberty]

In your world there's nothing wrong with what he did as long as the girl is over 13.

I wouldn't say its OK, but I probably wouldn't feel as "Kill him on the spot" as I do when its a 5 year old. Although if I were the girl's father my reaction might be the same, I dunno.

[asurfaholic]

Legally you can watch in any window of any house, film is even permitted granted you are doing it from a public area, or one you are legally allowed to be ( street, sidewalk, your own house). This is regardless of who you are watching or what their age and gender are.

This is the case in NC at least. I know this because I was filmed while naked in my house by a neighbor who thought she could have me arrested for indecent exposure. She set a camera up in a inconspicuous spot, in a common area behind my house, and waited. That was no crime, and I was arrested on 2 counts of indecent exposure ( charges dropped). Court said i can legally be naked at home, and she committed no crime either. Edit to add, I was not being inappropriate- was getting into the shower. She angled the camera so it was aimed through one bedroom, through a hall, and into my bed room. You could only see glimpses of me as I passed the narrow line of sight. All other blinds were closed.

This case seems to be different from that- he man was naked, on the property of the victims, and acting in appropriately. There is plenty of reason to assume the man is a danger to your family, regardless of age and gender of those in the house. You can't assume that his actions will not escalate as time goes on. You can't assume he is not willing to do something really bad.

The father did the right thing, no doubt.

[aGameOfThrones]

There was a guy charged with exposing himself to a minor because he was naked inside his house and a lady and her grandchild or kid were walking near his house or through his property and looked inside.

Dammit. T-mobile Edge Internet sucks.

[angelatc]

New headline: Mom beats naked super model woman to near death after catching the supermodel peeping into her sons window masturbating and fondling her 36DD's...

SHIzZAM! now what? :P

Don't call the cops. Bury her in the backyard?

[seraphson]

Another perfectly weaved thread in the hand basket to hell that America's morality and common sense are placed in. And you wonder why the bad guys prevail so well. Well here it is, cold hard fact that supports and defends these types of "people". The DA in that area can go fuck themselves with a rusted spiked dildo probably found at these "swinger" parties.

[dannno]

In your world there's nothing wrong with what he did as long as the girl is over 13.

Statements like these show how twisted your views are of me.

That is completely untrue, in my world it is wrong no matter what age she is. She could be 30 and of course it would still be wrong.

I'm just tired of the media acting like being attracted to a 16 or 17 year old girl is the same as being attracted to an 8 year old girl, and then as soon as she turns 18 they start reporting on her sex tapes and showing her twerking with guys twice her age and shit. It's fucking retarded. Some 17 year old girls look like they are 22, some 20 year old girls look 14, NOTHING MAGIC HAPPENS AT AGE 18. The article kept referring to a 'young girl' and I never caught the age, I skimmed the article a couple more times looking for it, is she 15 or 7, I have no idea? Either way I don't think it has much bearing, I can't imagine a situation like that where the person who finds them isn't going to give them a beating no matter what the age of the girl on the other side of the window is. My complaint is only referring to media perception.

[shane77m]

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/09/11/dad-faces-prison-after-roughing-up-alleged-naked-voyeur-peering-into-daughters/


He was just trying to defend his young daughters – and now he could be facing stiff jail time.

Emilio Chavez III was at his New Mexico home when he heard a noise at about 2:30 a.m. and found a man naked, groaning and peering into the window of a room shared by his two teenage daughters.

Chavez became so angry, according to the Albuquerque Journal, that he began chasing the alleged prowler and a fight ensured. Dylan Maho was badly beaten by Chavez, his son and a son’s friend. Maho was left hospitalized in critical condition, though his health eventually improved and he was upgraded to stable.


Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/09/11/dad-faces-prison-after-roughing-up-alleged-naked-voyeur-peering-into-daughters/#ixzz2ebyjm0bF

Another article.

[specsaregood]

Statements like these show how twisted your views are of me.


Dannno, I like ya man; but his view of you is not unique on this board. And that perception has only been built up due to your own comments. Just some food for thought.

[MelissaWV]

I think the use of force was not proportional, but who the hell really stops and thinks about that? "Let's see... there's some guy looking in my daughters' window, naked, groaning... how hard am I allowed to smack him, if at all?" There are a lot of other things he COULD have done. He didn't choose to do those.

Is he in the right? Not entirely, no. Should he be carted off to jail? Even the cops did not think so. Now that there's going to be a trial, I can't imagine there'd be a conviction given what we've been told so far, and it'll be a waste of taxpayer dollars. Nobody wins here. To me, this should have been a potential civil matter --- the guy at the window suing for damages from the beating if he dared, but I doubt he would.

Sidenote: if you have two teen daughters sharing a room on ground level where their window can be peeped into, planting some roses or even irritant plants under their window is good for keeping naked masturbators at bay, and keeping daughters from sneaking out of windows, all at the same time.

[kcchiefs6465]

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2013/09/11/dad-faces-prison-after-roughing-up-alleged-naked-voyeur-peering-into-daughters/


He was just trying to defend his young daughters – and now he could be facing stiff jail time.

Emilio Chavez III was at his New Mexico home when he heard a noise at about 2:30 a.m. and found a man naked, groaning and peering into the window of a room shared by his two teenage daughters.

Chavez became so angry, according to the Albuquerque Journal, that he began chasing the alleged prowler and a fight ensured. Dylan Maho was badly beaten by Chavez, his son and a son’s friend. Maho was left hospitalized in critical condition, though his health eventually improved and he was upgraded to stable.


Another article.

http://i.imgur.com/4mAFwp4.gif?1

[economics102]

And how do you know his daughters life wasn't in danger? How do you know the prick wouldn't come back later and act on his fantasies? I'm 100% with the father on this.

You are arguing for "preventative war." You can't attack someone simply to scare or disable them to prevent a hypothetical future attack one day.

The father committed an assault, he was not acting in self-defense. I'm sympathetic to his situation but I think the DA is right to question his actions.