Do you think we may be on the verge of driving the neocons out of the GOP?

[Cleaner44]

It occurs to me that events like the Syrian situation may drive the neocons our of the Republican party and back to the Democrat party. Looking ahead to 2016, I can see many neocons backing a war monger like Hillary or some other typical pro-war interventionist when faced with a Rand Paul Republican nominee. As we continue to spead the libertarian influence in the GOP, the division is widening.

Many everyday voters are turning their backs of fruit loops like John McCain and embracing the common sense of Rand Paul. Many of the elitist neocons in the media are going to pitch a fit when the voters again reject their calls to wage more war. Their cries about Iran nuking Israel are now like the boy who called wolf about 1000 times over. Less and less people are buying the neocon bullshit and that leaves the writers and leaders in a tough spot.

As the neocon influence is dying in the GOP, we may very well see them all rally back together in the Democrats party from which they spawned. There is strength in numbers and right now they are a force divided and weakening by the day. The 2016 election may be a choosing point that moves the Trotsky lovers back together.

[klamath]

Yes this is getting to be the make or break time. The non interventionists are gaining ground but we will see if a neocon counterattack can stop it.

[kathy88]

Yes this is getting to be the make or break time. The non interventionists are gaining ground but we will see if a neocon counterattack can stop it.

Totally agree. Hopefully new registrants who want peace will outnumber them.

[kathy88]

//

[Tod]

It occurs to me that events like the Syrian situation may drive the neocons our of the Republican party and back to the Democrat party. Looking ahead to 2016, I can see many neocons backing a war monger like Hillary or some other typical pro-war interventionist when faced with a Rand Paul Republican nominee. As we continue to spead the....

I guess I wasn't aware that they had come from the Democrat Party to the GOP, at least not in the last few decades.

[QuickZ06]

They need to not only be driven out of the Republican Party and into the Democratic party, but out of this country.

[Cleaner44]

Yes this is getting to be the make or break time. The non interventionists are gaining ground but we will see if a neocon counterattack can stop it.

I saw this article a bit ago and that is what got me thinking about this.


Syria and Rand Paul's Israel Problem
theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/09/syria-and-rand-pauls-israel-problem/279323/
He has cast himself as a defender of the Jewish state, but his anti-interventionist stance puts him at odds with both the Israeli government and leading American Jewish groups.

At least they did not call him an isolationist.

[Cleaner44]

I guess I wasn't aware that they had come from the Democrat Party to the GOP, at least not in the last few decades.

It is an interesting history and probably most Republicans these days are also unaware of it. It started in the early 1970s when the pro-war Democrats got fed up with the peace movement in the Democrat party during the war in Viet Nam.

[Lucille]

The neo-Trotskyites need to go back to the Democrat Party from whence they came and where they belong.

Neocons Are Back—But Not in the GOP
As hawks flock to Obama's side over Syria, their hold on Republicans is slipping.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/neocons-are-back-but-not-in-the-gop/

But they really are...

The Monster That Wouldn’t Die
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2008/02/13/the-monster-that-wouldnt-die/


Like vampires risen from the dead each night, these creatures who shun the light and feast on pain and suffering, are refreshed and ready to take wing again. What they seek is what makes them feel alive and energizes them to want more, and that is war. They are the War Party, and they are Democrats and Republicans. They are columnists and publishers and academics, as well as politicians and publicists. They don’t have much of a mass base: they prefer to work in the shadows, manipulating rather than inspiring. By such Machiavellian means have they managed to stay viable, in spite of the disasters they have wrought through the years – giving them more scope for fresh disasters yet to be imagined.

[tod evans]

Do you think we may be on the verge of driving the neocons out of the GOP?

They're so deeply entrenched the only way to end their influence is with pine boxes...

[Brett85]

...

[Brett85]

I saw this article a bit ago and that is what got me thinking about this.



At least they did not call him an isolationist.

So are they now saying that Ted Cruz has an "Israel problem" as well since he opposes military action in Syria?

[Christian Liberty]

So are they now saying that Ted Cruz has an "Israel problem" as well since he opposes military action in Syria?

Ted Cruz is a rabid, rabid Israel firster. Rand Paul even has some Israel first elements to his platform. These people really need to get off their high horses. Why do so many idiots support the foreign welfare queens?

[pcosmar]

Do you think we may be on the verge of driving the neocons out of the GOP?

No.

They will change some of their wording(Rhetoric),, will pander a little.. and will plan quietly until they have another opportunity.

They ain't going away.

[Mr.NoSmile]

Not really. I mean, we'll have to wait until the results of the midterm elections in 2014 to tell. Do I think that a town hall against McCain on Syria will result in him losing his seat? Or do Lee Bright, Nancy Mace and Richard Cash all have what it takes to siphon enough keep Graham from retaining his seat? Or the fact that the RNC has still refused to hear the voice of grassroots and restore the rules prior to the Romney campaign ramming through their own? Or that the Republican Party still looks like the party for mostly White Anglo Saxon Protestants as opposed to making a genuine effort to open the tent and welcome folks of all kinds (Say what you will about the Democrats- the Democratic National Convention at least looks diverse as opposed to having to trot out the occasional token minority or woman).

The fact is that many of these folks still have tons and tons of supporters who will back them no matter what. A few good examples isn't enough for me to believe that there will be this sudden onslaught of liberty cascading throughout the GOP, casting out all the war monger neoconservatives. Plus, people still get a ton of their information and what they see as facts from CNN, Fox and MSNBC. None of those three networks are particularly good, but millions still tune in and only take what they're given, never forming their opinion or looking elsewhere. You can influence better when you control information, and we do not have that. These are all piecemeal steps in the right direction, but do I feel we're on the verge of a breakthrough? I sincerely doubt it.

[donnay]

I guess I wasn't aware that they had come from the Democrat Party to the GOP, at least not in the last few decades.

I agree, a good portion of them have been life-long Republicans--like; Dick Chaney, Donald Rumsfeld, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, etc...

Besides the two parties are one in the same. They just have different ways of enforcing tyranny upon all of us.

I would like to see the break-up of both parties!

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
~ John Adams

"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe."
~ Abraham Lincoln

[VoluntaryAmerican]

No, I don't think so. They will keep fighting to hold their positions, they won't flee willingly.

The thing that makes the interventionists so strong is that they have party leadership on both sides of the parties. So it makes them appear reasonable. If the issue was polarized to one party they would have much less freedom to act.

Ignorant Americans still perceive the (R) as the war party, Bush didn't help that stereotype. Hopefully this Syria vote will start to change things, though.

[kahless]

If things get bad enough for the Neocons there will be a false flag that will allow them to herd the masses back into the fold accordingly.

I have a bad feeling the opposition to intervention in Syria will not last long based on that theory.

[thoughtomator]

If things get bad enough for the Neocons there will be a false flag that will allow them to herd the masses back into the fold accordingly.

I have a bad feeling the opposition to intervention in Syria will not last long based on that theory.

I have never seen such widespread expectation that the US government would attack the United States. People ARE waking up.

[Brian4Liberty]

Did Bill Kristol move from Fox to CNN? That's almost like switching Parties...

[surf]

i'm excited to see the "libertarian-isolationist-wings" from both parties win for peace. i'm optimistic here (relative to a no-vote occurring and being soundly defeated).

"isolationistic libertarian" could be a less corrupt, more principled and more involving (and less-mocked version) of the Tea Party....

of course i'd rather it be referred to as a "peace and liberty caucus" or something cool like that.

[July]

No not yet, but I do think they are starting to become a little more isolated. For instance they are starting to be referred to by name as an ideological faction more often in the mainstream media....I don't remember that being the case even just a couple of years ago...there didn't used to be much talk of them as a distinct faction within the GOP, they were just commonly seen as the standard ideology. Meanwhile, their counterparts in the Democratic party are becoming more obvious, and some are openly supporting Obama. That is one thing that has been good about the NSA debate, and now on Syria, a bipartisan split is taking shape. The security state hawks and interventionists in both parties are aligned. The less authoritarian factions of both parties are starting to align a little more as well... These are good developments I think.

[69360]

Not out, but we are getting closer to being on equal footing with them.

[GunnyFreedom]

We were on the verge of driving the neocons out in 2009, 2011, and 2013 -- and would have, except too many liberty people think it's more important to stay home and clip their toenails than to attend their GOP convention cycles. Unless that changes, then the Party composition will not change.

[FSP-Rebel]

We were on the verge of driving the neocons out in 2009, 2011, and 2013 -- and would have, except too many liberty people think it's more important to stay home and clip their toenails than to attend their GOP convention cycles. Unless that changes, then the Party composition will not change.
Yep, especially if foreign policy is a lynch pin issue for you. When the state and local party leadership stays the same, there's little chance that the base can influence the national leadership.

[Philhelm]

The successful neocon-hunter must destroy the neocon's coffin and scatter the soil within to the winds or else the neocon will simply return to plague the land. This must be done in conjunction with severing the neocon's head, piercing the neocon's heart with a blessed stake of pure silver, and burning the neocon's remains.

[Bastiat's The Law]

We were on the verge of driving the neocons out in 2009, 2011, and 2013 -- and would have, except too many liberty people think it's more important to stay home and clip their toenails than to attend their GOP convention cycles. Unless that changes, then the Party composition will not change.

100% correct statement here. We could own damn near every state GOP in the country if the liberty movement was smart and motivated to take on this task. People get way too hung up on labels and would sooner get struck by lightning than attend a GOP meeting. Heck, I would join the Crustacean Liberation Party (yes, that's a real third party) if it was politically viable and was comprised of a growing libertarian sentiment. Now what if that GOP meeting was comprised of 95% libertarians, then would you attend? What if we could get great people into positions that further our ideals like the supporters in Iowa did, then would you attend? All those things are possible if people get active and do so in a smart productive manner.

[Cleaner44]

Did Bill Kristol move from Fox to CNN? That's almost like switching Parties...

This is what I am talking about and I was unaware of that detail.

As these elitist grow more dissatisfied with our influence in the party, more of them may openly switch their allegiance to the Democrats. If it is Rand Paul vs Hillary Clinton in 2016, don't be surprised to see Bill Kristol make excuses as he endorses Hillary over Rand. The same could happen with other dipshits like Brit Hume or Charles Krauwheelchair.

[Lucille]

We were on the verge of driving the neocons out in 2009, 2011, and 2013 -- and would have, except too many liberty people think it's more important to stay home and clip their toenails than to attend their GOP convention cycles. Unless that changes, then the Party composition will not change.


100% correct statement here. We could own damn near every state GOP in the country if the liberty movement was smart and motivated to take on this task. People get way too hung up on labels and would sooner get struck by lightning than attend a GOP meeting. Heck, I would join the Crustacean Liberation Party (yes, that's a real third party) if it was politically viable and was comprised of a growing libertarian sentiment. Now what if that GOP meeting was comprised of 95% libertarians, then would you attend? What if we could get great people into positions that further our ideals like the supporters in Iowa did, then would you attend? All those things are possible if people get active and do so in a smart productive manner.

I believe this is true:


If we "become the tent", they will invalidate the tent, hide in another tent, and declare that the official tent. We need to burn down the tent. Fuck the tent.


Even if we did [become the tent] (http://lewrockwell.com/orig13/skousen-j1.1.1.html), the media and key politicians would suddenly claim the Republican Party was "captured by extremists"and move to form a new party which they would instantly grant majority status. That's what they did in Israel when they formed Kadima.

And even if it were possible to finally expose the conspiracy which controls both parties, they would reform and create new parties with new names and fresh faces, but controlled by the same people. That's what they did in Italy in 1994 when all the major parties were exposed for corruption. Fighting secret combinations of power in government is extremely difficult once they have gained control of a majority in Congress, the courts, and the media, not to mention the secret organs of enforcement in the police state.

[donnay]

I believe this is true:

Look how the Tea Party was infiltrated.

We need to all get involved...but trying to save the Republic through voting is not going to save it. The corruption is too entrenched for that to happen.

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."

~ James Madison


“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.”

~ James Madison

[Americans1st]

Ted Cruz is a rabid, rabid Israel firster. Rand Paul even has some Israel first elements to his platform. These people really need to get off their high horses. Why do so many idiots support the foreign welfare queens?

Because if a candidate does not support the Zionist controllers they cannot get elected. Didn't we watch that in action during the campaign and what they did to Ron Paul? Why do you think all the other candidates went to Israel and the wailing wall.

[Lucille]

Look how the Tea Party was infiltrated.

We need to all get involved...but trying to save the Republic through voting is not going to save it. The corruption is too entrenched for that to happen.

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."

~ James Madison


“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manners and of morals engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.”

~ James Madison

OWS too.

There is no political solution. Our only hope (http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=59930) is when the whole filthy system finally collapses (http://blog.independent.org/2009/11/02/can-the-rampaging-leviathan-be-stopped-or-slowed/).


Isaiah 62:10: Go through the gates, prepare the way of the people. Cast up, cast up a highway, gather out the stones, lift up a standard for the people.

Regardless of who Isaiah had in mind, this is an excellent summation of what we must do to set our golden age free. So, let’s step outside of the gates – outside of the city – outside of the televised script – and take a fresh look at what lies before us.

The Great Boom

What lies before us is an economic boom beyond anything we’ve ever experienced. Please understand, this is not the usual idealistic scenario of happy miracles leaping up once we all start living the “right way.” Everything below is based upon factors that already exist.

This is not “could be.” This is “already here and needs to be released.”

The following list is based upon a very clean scenario: the failure of existing economic and ruling structures in the West, followed by individuals reorganizing on their own. In real life, the changeover will be an uglier process than is depicted here, but it is important to start with as clear a set of images as possible. It’s hard enough to depict the future, without making it complicated.

So, the great boom begins with a collapse of existing systems, similar to the end of Soviet domination in Eastern Europe. Once released, we would begin to encounter these things:

We are the Remnant!


Ron Paul did his job. He found and built up the Remnant. And there, rather than in the fleeting passage of legislation, is where genuine, long-term change will emerge (http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/thomas-woods/ron-pauls-task/).

[Matthew5]

The War Machine® doesn't care much for party labels. They'll shift to where the hottest markets are. The iTerror 4S product is getting stale so they released the iDictator 5...seems the enthusiasm isn't there, but don't worry, they've got a plan.

I could see many shifting over to Democrat on the war issue, but the Ds are going to have to ride a few more bald eagles and eat some more apple pie before 2016.

[twomp]

We are the Remnant!

We are too young to be the Remnant! The Remnant are the ones who held the line this entire time for us. We are the FUTURE!

[fr33]

There are a lot of GOP voters who can't really be defined as neocons but they still love voting for them in order to kill the Muslims.

[donnay]

OWS too.

There is no political solution. Our only hope (http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=59930) is when the whole filthy system finally collapses (http://blog.independent.org/2009/11/02/can-the-rampaging-leviathan-be-stopped-or-slowed/).



We are the Remnant!


I am all out of rep. I owe you one. You're absolutely right.

[jllundqu]

no

[GunnyFreedom]

qed.

[torchbearer]

Do you think we may be on the verge of driving the neocons out of the GOP?

No.

They will change some of their wording(Rhetoric),, will pander a little.. and will plan quietly until they have another opportunity.

They ain't going away.

this.
snakes going to slither.
http://gothlupin.tripod.com/hp/slsn2c-2.gif

[cajuncocoa]

Do you think we may be on the verge of driving the neocons out of the GOP?
No. They only oppose military intervention in Syria because Obama (Team Blue) is in the White House. They will be right back to warmongering as soon as Team Red in in control again.