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randall_s
08-29-2013, 11:47 AM
http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/brink-of-war-over-what/

Syria, again.


WE are led to believe by the President and by the pliant news media, both liberal and most conservative, that intervention in Syria is something required of the United States. Assad gassed his people, they say, breaking international law. And now he deserves to pay the price.
Well, we don’t know that for sure. The only definitive source of information on the matter is the White House, who claims (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/06/13/red_lined_white_house_says_it_knows_for_sure_that_ assad_used_chemical_weapons) to have proof (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/28/world/meast/syria-civil-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t2). The CIA Radio Free Europe reports (http://www.rferl.org/content/un-syria-chemical-attack/25083741.html) that Obama considers the attacks a “big event of grave concern.” UN weapons inspectors who Assad permitted to enter the country were attacked (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/un-team-headed-to-site-of-alleged-chemical-attack-comes-under-sniper-fire-turns-back/2013/08/26/5ea074c8-0e3f-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html) by snipers. Snipers under what flag? Say what you want about Assad, but would he really fire on inspectors he invited into his country? Doubtful. Their identity is in doubt (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/26/syria-un-no-impunity-chemical-attack).


The UN has asked for a few more days to finish their inspection (http://abcnews.go.com/International/seeks-days-syria-chemical-probe-us-strike/story?id=20091760), after which they will certainly offer their opinion on who gassed whom. Obama, meanwhile, has all of a sudden changed his tune. From the bombast of Biden (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57600306/biden-no-doubt-assad-responsible-for-syria-chemical-weapons-attack/), Hagel (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/politics/us-syria/index.html), and Kerry (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/26/kerry_syria_s_chemical_weapons_attack_is_undeniabl e.html) earlier this week, yesterday (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57600534/obama-i-have-not-made-a-decision-on-syria-military-strike/) the president declared that he has “not made a decision” on Syria. Interesting how the Vice President, Secretary of Defense, and Secretary of State were convinced, just days ago, that Obama had made a decision. Obama insisted the strike, which would likely involve cruise missiles and air strikes, would be “tailored, limited (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2013/08/20138295234621459.html),” apparently serving no strategic aim other than vengeance. Syria, Obama has said, must face “consequences.”


If this is a war of spite, can’t it wait until the inspectors finish so we can start it on the right foot? Before the United States takes the step of invading a sovereign nation, rather than merely arming the terrorist rebels, shouldn’t the president at least hear what the U.N. and Congress have to say about it?

It’s hard to overstate the implications of striking Assad, and how lonely this position is starting to look. Russia and China, two members of the United Nation Security Council, are objecting strenuously (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23845800). There were even reports that the two countries had “walked out” of a meeting, though Russia denies (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/08/28/320986/russia-unsc-meeting-demarche-rejected/) this. Syria is claiming that it is their national interests to allow inspectors to finish their job, calling (http://www.syriaonline.sy/?f=Details&catid=12&pageid=6995) the position of the White House “categorically baseless.” It is in Syria’s interest to reveal the “reality” of the chemical attacks.


As a result of this mounting doubt, Jordan (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_JORDAN_SYRIA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-08-28-08-50-02), a staunch American ally, is refusing to let the United States launch attacks from their soil. It’s said the Jordanians know all that happens in the Middle East, and so their refusal to participate should give Obama pause. Even the U.K. and David Cameron, whose aggressive rhetoric had matched the White House, is having second thoughts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10272555/Cameron-backs-down-on-urgent-Syria-strikes.html). France, whose president is a friend (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/28/francois-hollande-qatar-principles) of the Arab Spring architects, the Qatari royal family, remains willing to proceed (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-military-ready-syria-needed-20103301) with the strikes. In what might be regarded as a small miracle, House Speaker John Boehner actually demanded (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/john-boehner-barack-obama-syria-96011.html) Obama make the formal case to Congress before any Syrian intervention. Whether he’s trying to prevent the strike, or rather excited about signing off on it, well… that’s anyone’s guess. It is John Boehner, after all.


What is never quite spelled out for the public is the gravity of this decision. To quote Glenn Beck (http://www.mediaite.com/online/glenn-becks-dire-warning-we-dont-survive-if-we-intervene-in-syria/), the United States would “[would not] survive” a Syrian intervention. According to Beck, the strike would constitute “WWIII in the making.” Those are some words, even from Glenn Beck. Not survive? How is that possible? What is the thinking behind that statement? Here’s (probably) a good amount of it.

Russia, and likely China, view Barack Obama as backing the same group of Islamic jihadis who terrorize them in their own backyard. Looking at the evidence, it’s not hard to see where they’re coming from. Country-by-country, Obama’s foreign policy in the region has benefited one group of actors – the Islamists – the Muslim Brotherhood – al Qaeda… does not manure by any other name smell as foul?


In Egypt, Obama sent Mubarak packing, clearing the way for a Muslim Brotherhood dominated government that has subsequently fallen in spectacular and violent fashion.
In Libya, Obama committed the U.S. Air Force (on behalf of NATO) to bomb Gaddafi forces, clearing the way for a Muslim Brotherhood government. A $1 million bounty (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2011/08/2011824131527528610.html)was put on Gaddafi’s head.
In Syria, the United States had been covertly arming rebels through (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/15/world/middleeast/jihadists-receiving-most-arms-sent-to-syrian-rebels.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) Saudi Arabia and Qatar, before finally admitted to doing so in the open. It is the official position of the administration to arm the anti-Assad forces, and now it would seem that Obama wants to use cruise missiles against Assad based on tenuous evidence.
In Turkey, Obama ignored the anti-Brotherhood protests (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/06/taksim-square-protesters_n_3554859.html) in Taksim Square, and looked the other way when Brotherhood Prime Minister Erdogan suppressed them with prejudice. Obama is famously close (http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/06/04/obama_erdogan_turkey_protests_friends) with the brutal Prime Minister, whose regime has seen the implementation of Sharia law in Turkey. In Ankara in 2009, Obama stated (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA) that the United States did not consider itself a Jewish or Christian nation.
In one of the worst modern acts of betrayal, Obama has done nothing to free Dr. Shakil Afridi, who was crucially important to the tracking and killing Osama bin Laden. Dr. Afridi is being held in prison in Pakistan, whose military, it was determined, had been harboring the terrorist leader for years. Just today (http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2013/08/pakistan_to_retry_dr_shakil_af.html) (August 29, 2013), a court in Pakistan declared his sentence null and void, and he is set to be retried.
Israel, the sole non-Muslim Jewish state in the region, has been repeatedly snubbed and embarrassed by Obama. He infamously called (http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/19/obama.israel.palestinians/index.html) for Israel to return to their pre-1967 borders, which would leave the country without a reasonable way to defend itself. By dumping Mubarak, Obama created a security risk for Israel that it had not known since Egyptian President Anwar Sadat made peace in 1978. Kerry forced Israel to free (http://patdollard.com/2013/08/at-the-behest-of-obama-state-dept-palestinian-prisoner-freed-by-israel-has-american-blood-on-his-hands/) 104 Palestinian prisoners, many whom were convicted of murder and terrorism.
Qatar, the financial backer of the Arab Spring and its loudest diplomatic proponent, is home (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Udeid_Air_Base) to the largest U.S. military base in Middle East. In January 2012, the Telegraph reported (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/01/30/did-michelle-obama-really-spend-50000-on-lingerie-in-one-shopping-spree/) that Michelle Obama had spent $50,000 on lingerie at Agent Provocateur while shopping with the queen of Qatar. The company with close ties (http://www.almanamedia.com/our-clients/44/Agent+Provocateur) to the Gulf State. (Note that the original Telegraph story is now missing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/9048122/Agent-Provocateur-sales-boosted-by-US-First-Lady-Michelle-Obama.html)…) Just this month, Qatar-based Al Jazeera began broadcasting (http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-al-jazeera-america-off-to-a-slow-ratings-start-20130828,0,4161683.story) Al Jazeera America across the country… to low ratings. Finally, it was Qatar who sold out (http://qatartruth.blogspot.com/2012/05/qatar-owes-world-answers.html) Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind.
Jordan, who has been one of America’s closest allies, is not permitting the use of Jordanian territory for any strike against Syria. Obama also snubbed (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/09/26/king-abdullah-on-daily-show-terribly-insulted-but-refused-to-watch-video/) King Abdullah II on his trip to New York in 2012, leaving Abdullah to appear on the Daily Show.


With such a reckless foreign policy, it's no wonder that Russia's Deputy Prime Minister called (http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130827/182995837/Russian-Deputy-Premier-Calls-West-Monkey-With-Hand-Grenade.html)America "a monkey with a hand grenade." Make no mistake about it. Obama is attempting to recreate a situation not unlike Libya, in which American air superiority provided the necessary cover for al Qaeda and Brotherhood-linked rebels to overthrow a secular dictator with close ties to Russia. This is seen, rightfully so, as a security risk to the entire region. Oil prices have already spiked (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/08/28/entanglement-with-syria-could-lift-crude-oil-us-gas-prices/2712405/) on the news.


Then there are the softer stories, which to Russia must seem no less damning. Christians being persecuted (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/elisabethmeinecke/2013/08/16/th-magazine-persecution-of-christians--in-america-n1662288) in the U.S. military. A claim (http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/obama-family-ties-to-the-muslim-brotherhood/) that Obama’s brother Malik is a Muslim Brotherhood financier. Claims out of Egypt that purportedly (http://dcclothesline.com/2013/08/20/is-obama-going-to-prison-second-source-comes-forward-egyptian-official-claims-to-have-documents-and-proofs/) can send Obama to prison for conspiring with the Muslim Brotherhood. Further claims that the Muslim Brotherhood is blackmailing (http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-brotherhood-leaders-son-claims-mb-is-blackmailing-obama-with-evidence-that-could-put-him-in-prison/) Obama.


To Russia, and to Iran, North Korea, Israel, and Jordan, not to mention other European allies who have been suspiciously quiet in all this (Germany (http://www.dw.de/germany-proceeds-with-caution-in-syria-policy/a-17050654), Poland (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/28/poland-will-not-join-any-military-strike-on-syria-as-it-may-not-end-bloodshed/), Italy (http://www.thelocal.it/20130829/italy-takes-back-seat-on-syria), Spain (http://www.thelocal.es/20130829/wary-spain-waits-on-syria-stance), you might say the entire EU minus France and UK...) it must look like President Obama is single-mindedly pushing the agenda of the Muslim Brotherhood – aka, the Arab Spring. This is threatening to create a war that will be globally consuming.

Then there is an entire aspect, never mentioned in the press: that since the Arab Spring, narcotics usage and trafficking have flourished (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/drugs-and-the-middle-east-a-primer/) throughout the Middle East. Once the media remember how to conduct investigative journalism, it’s only a matter of time before we learn the true extent to the narcotics traffic as it relates to the Arab Spring. Syria, you might say, is a mere turf war (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/blood-money-connection-the-dots-in-the-middle-east/).


Maybe the media would show some interest? But no, we get endless reports of Miley Cyrus.


Even if Obama backs down, can his credibility recover? Not likely. Not only Russia, but our closest allies don’t trust us anymore.


Ever wonder how great nations fail? It’s like this.


See Also:

Drugs in the Middle East (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/drugs-and-the-middle-east-a-primer/)

Waking Up to the War We're In (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/waking-up-to-the-war-were-in/)

What the Hell is Going on in Syria? (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-syria/)

Who is Dawood Ibrahim? (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/who-is-dawood-ibrahim/)

Who is AQIM? (http://nyyrc.com/blog/2013/08/who-is-aqim/)

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 11:51 AM
Why do you keep linking to/commenting on pieces by the New York Young Republicans? Do you belong to that organization? If so, why are you posting on RPF?

randall_s
08-29-2013, 11:59 AM
My interest isn't with affiliations. It's in spreading information. I post... everywhere.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:10 PM
My interest isn't with affiliations. It's in spreading information. I post... everywhere.

Why did you not answer my questions? You could just as easily spread information by posting other sources/sorts anywhere on the web, yet you've specifically chosen to post and discuss pieces by a rabidly anti-Paul organization on a website for Paul fans.

Why would you do that?

randall_s
08-29-2013, 12:14 PM
My concern isn't with Paul or anti-Paul. As I said (but you don't believe me), my concern is to inform. If people on the forum like the article, they will say so. If they don't, let them bash it. That's the free market, no? Liberty.

randall_s
08-29-2013, 12:15 PM
And, as I recall, it was the Ron Paul forums who first posted an article from the NY YRs.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:23 PM
My concern isn't with Paul or anti-Paul. As I said (but you don't believe me), my concern is to inform.

If that were true, then one would expect your posts to have the pattern of a random walk; some would be pro-Paul and others would be anti-Paul in order to show people a wide array of opinions and allow them to make up their own minds about which they find more convincing. The fact that your posts do not show this pattern strongly suggests that your concern is not only to inform, but rather to share information of a particular sort in order to persuade people to believe the things you're posting. This is commonly referred to as propagandizing. My question remains - why are you devoting your time on a pro-Paul forum to spreading anti-Paul propaganda and defending anti-Paul propagandists?


If people on the forum like the article, they will say so. If they don't, let them bash it.

See that little red thing under your screen name? That means people don't like the things you post.


That's the free market, no? Liberty.

No, forums are not markets. I'm not sure whether you're stupid, ignorant, or being willfully dishonest, but it's surely one of the three.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:26 PM
And, as I recall, it was the Ron Paul forums who first posted an article from the NY YRs.

Correct, and there you posted this:


To be honest with you, I don't particularly care one way or the other about the liberty lobby, Paul, etc.

If that's true, then why would you want to post here, where you are surrounded by people who do care about the liberty lobby, Paul, etc?

randall_s
08-29-2013, 12:28 PM
Oh calm down. Stop with your sharia. If you don't like it, move on. Tranquilo.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:33 PM
Oh calm down. Stop with your sharia. If you don't like it, move on. Tranquilo.

neg-rep

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:36 PM
Conversations are not possible where one side consistently refuses to answer simple, pointed questions. If you want to start a dialogue, you're doing a remarkably terrible job of it. If your goal is to seem like a retarded propagandist, then you've succeeded admirably; congratulations.

randall_s
08-29-2013, 12:43 PM
Oh, give me a break. You're acting like a child. Why don't you ask a question of pertinence to the war we're about to ramp up? The world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone for that matter. A public discussion should be about public issues, not private animosities.

twomp
08-29-2013, 12:47 PM
This post has nothing to do with Rand Paul yet is put in the Rand Paul forums. Will someone move this thread please.

randall_s
08-29-2013, 12:50 PM
Cyber sharia. Amazing. From those who claim to support the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the right to free speech. What a spectacular voice of hypocrisy. That's the last thing I say on this topic.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:53 PM
Oh, give me a break. You're acting like a child.

Oh, give me a break. You're acting like a child.


Why don't you ask a question of pertinence to the war we're about to ramp up?

Because I'm not convinced there are any questions on that subject I could ask that you would have an interesting or informative answer to. I suspect that the depth and breadth of your knowledge is inferior to mine in almost every arena, including this one.

Why don't you answer my other questions itt?


The world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone for that matter. A public discussion should be about public issues, private animosities.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Typos are the sign of a careless mind.

Why shouldn't public discussions ever be about private animosities? I claim that such discussions can on occasion produce things of public value. For example, witnesses to our exchange might learn that they ought not take anything you say seriously. Or they might learn the opposite. Either way, yay! Right?

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 12:59 PM
Cyber sharia. Amazing.

Something tells me you don't know much about Sharia. Would that be fair to say?


From those who claim to support the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the right to free speech. What a spectacular voice of hypocrisy. That's the last thing I say on this topic.

I have not claimed to support the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, or the right to free speech. Where are you getting that from? Methinks your simple mind has constructed a "Paul supporter" mold into which you believe we all fit. Since I have not claimed what you claim I have, there is no hypocrisy here; your accusation is unfounded and a sign that you are a feeble and fragile little idiot.

Even supposing I had claimed to support those things, though, my comments here could not reasonably be called hypocritical. So there is literally no way in hell that your remarks here are sensible.

Anyway - farewell, stupid! Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

randall_s
08-29-2013, 01:04 PM
I think you've just had too much coffee, and are well-versed in taqiyya.

ManOfSteel
08-29-2013, 01:08 PM
I think you've just had too much coffee, and are well-versed in taqiyya.

I don't drink coffee.

pcosmar
08-29-2013, 01:27 PM
Oh, give me a break. You're acting like a child. Why don't you ask a question of pertinence to the war we're about to ramp up? The world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone for that matter. A public discussion should be about public issues, not private animosities.

Then explain the Republican War Drums,,o young Republican.

This has nothing to do with Obama,, He is just the current Puppet in the Chair.

It was McCain that went to Syria to meet with the Terrorists Boots on the Ground.

Stallheim
09-02-2013, 02:45 AM
Oh, give me a break. You're acting like a child. Why don't you ask a question of pertinence to the war we're about to ramp up? The world doesn't revolve around you, or me, or anyone for that matter. A public discussion should be about public issues, not private animosities.
The war "we" are about to ramp up? So claiming a bit of responsibility here? If not, don't buy into the collective guilt. You don't need to own this. Neither I nor you is ramping up anything.

Stallheim
09-02-2013, 02:47 AM
My interest isn't with affiliations. It's in spreading information. I post... everywhere. See everything... hear everything... the lidless eye of Sauron has found us here at RPF.

twomp
09-03-2013, 12:21 AM
So I was reading some articles and look what I found! Do I get some award for finding a troll or anything?

http://i.imgur.com/ucqH2lC.jpg?1

source:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/rand-paul-heading-to-sc-talks-graham-egypt-95845.html

paulbot24
09-03-2013, 12:28 AM
A troll bounty! Hey, we're all about free markets here. God damn it, you better get something for that.

Mani
09-03-2013, 02:37 AM
So I was reading some articles and look what I found! Do I get some award for finding a troll or anything?

http://i.imgur.com/ucqH2lC.jpg?1

source:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/rand-paul-heading-to-sc-talks-graham-egypt-95845.html


+ Rep. Good find.