Fast-food strikes set for cities nationwide - TODAY!!!

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Fast-food-strikes-set-for-cities-nationwide-4770082.php

Fast-food customers in search of burgers and fries might run into striking workers instead.

Organizers say thousands of fast-food workers are set to stage walkouts in dozens of cities around the country Thursday, part of a push to get chains such as McDonald's, Taco Bell and Wendy's to pay workers higher wages.

It's expected be the largest nationwide strike by fast-food workers, according to organizers. The biggest effort so far was over the summer when about 2,200 of the nation's millions of fast-food workers staged a one-day strike in seven cities.

Thursday's planned walkouts follow a series of strikes that began last November in New York City, then spread to cities including Chicago, Detroit and Seattle. Workers say they want $15 an hour, which would be about $31,000 a year for full-time employees. That's more than double the federal minimum wage, which many fast food workers make, of $7.25 an hour, or $15,000 a year.

The move comes amid calls from the White House, some members of Congress and economists to hike the federal minimum wage, which was last raised in 2009. But most proposals seek a far more modest increase than the ones workers are asking for, with President Barack Obama wanting to boost it to $9 an hour.

The push has brought considerable media attention to a staple of the fast-food industry — the so-called "McJobs" that are known for their low pay and limited prospects. But the workers taking part in the strikes still represent a tiny fraction of the broader industry. And it's not clear if the strikes on Thursday will shut down any restaurants because organizers made their plans public earlier in a call for workers around the country to participate, which gave managers time to adjust their staffing levels. More broadly, it's not clear how many customers are aware of the movement, with turnout for past strikes relatively low in some cities.

Laila Jennings, a 29-year-old sales associate at T.J. Maxx, was eating at a McDonald's in New York City this week and said she hadn't heard of the movement. Still, she said she thinks workers should be paid more. "They work on their feet all day," Jennings said, adding that $12 to $15 an hour seemed fair.

As it stands, fast-food workers say they can't live on what they're paid.

Shaniqua Davis, 20, lives in the Bronx with her boyfriend, who is unemployed, and their 1-year-old daughter. Davis has worked at a McDonald's a few blocks from her apartment for the past three months, earning $7.25 an hour. Her schedule varies, but she never gets close to 40 hours a week. "Forty? Never. They refuse to let you get to that (many) hours."

Her weekly paycheck is $150 or much lower. "One of my paychecks, I only got $71 on there. So I wasn't able to do much with that. My daughter needs stuff, I need to get stuff for my apartment," said Davis, who plans to take part in the strike Thursday.

She pays the rent with public assistance but struggles to afford food, diapers, subway and taxi fares, cable TV and other expenses with her paycheck.

"It's really hard," she said. "If I didn't have public assistance to help me out, I think I would have been out on the street already with the money I make at McDonald's."

McDonald's Corp. and Burger King Worldwide Inc. say that they don't make decisions about pay for the independent franchisees that operate the majority of their U.S. restaurants.

For the restaurants it does own, McDonald's said in a statement that pay starts at minimum wage but the range goes higher, depending on the employee's position and experience level. It said that raising entry-level wages would mean higher overall costs, which could result in higher prices on menus.

"That would potentially have a negative impact on employment and business growth in our restaurants, as well as value for our customers," the company said in a statement.

The Wendy's Co. and Yum Brands Inc., which owns KFC, Pizza Hut and Taco Bell, did not respond to a request for comment.

The National Restaurant Association says the low wages reflect the fact that most fast-food workers tend to be younger and have little work experience. Scott DeFife, a spokesman for the group, says that doubling wages would hurt job creation, noting that fast-food chains are already facing higher costs for ingredients, as well as new regulations that will require them to pay more in health care costs.

Still, the actions are striking a chord in some corners.

Robert Reich, a worker advocate and former Labor Secretary in the Clinton administration, said that the struggles of living on low wages is hitting close to home for many because of the weak economic climate.

"More and more, people are aware of someone either in their wider circle of friends or extended family who has fallen on hard times," Reich said.

Mary Kay Henry, president of the Service Employees International Union, which is providing the fast-food strikes with financial support and training, said the actions in recent months show that fast-food workers can be mobilized, despite the industry's relatively higher turnover rates and younger age.

"The reality has totally blown through the obstacles," she said.

-t

[cindy25]

good

they have a right to strike. or quit.

[KEEF]

Shaniqua Davis, 20, lives in the Bronx with her boyfriend, who is unemployed, and their 1-year-old daughter. Davis has worked at a McDonald's a few blocks from her apartment for the past three months, earning $7.25 an hour.

So Shaniqua, is your boyfriend limbless? Tell him to get off his ass and go find a McDonalds job too; now you are making $14.50 an hour.

[tod evans]

So Shaniqua, is your boyfriend limbless? Tell him to get off his ass and go find a McDonalds job too; now you are making $14.50 an hour.

Now, now, expecting him to work for the same wages as his girlfriend is sexist or something...

[juleswin]

I got to say $7.25 in NY is going to be impossible to survive on. I remember getting paid I think $7.75 in 2001 ish working for burger king in the cheap midwest. I think at some point you got to start thinking about moving out of town

[tod evans]

I might eat at one of these establishments 3-4 times a year, today I'll make it a point to scarf down a slider.

[fisharmor]

If I was managing one of those stores, I would have already told everyone working there that anyone scheduled on the 29th who doesn't show up to work is fired.
No exceptions.

I had one of these shit jobs once, and I learned the lesson people who have these jobs are supposed to learn:
Nobody is going to give you shit.

Go get financial assistance, get your asses to the community college, and study.
Or else, as Mr. Pink put it, "I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise."

[KEEF]

Now, now, expecting him to work for the same wages as his girlfriend is sexist or something...

HA HA

[V3n]

All the fast food joints in my neighborhood look like they're all managed by someone in their 30's and operated by folks in their teens. Teens don't have house payments and the expenses adults do - so $7.25 is fine for them. If you're trying to run a life and family while working at a fast-food joint as an adult, you're doing something wrong. Those jobs are for teens, and there's no place for advancement - look for a job in the mail-room, or janitorial at some company, do a good job, get noticed, climb the ladder.

If I owned a fast food, and the people went on strike - I'd lock the door behind them and hire some people grateful to have a job.

Sorry if that offends anyone.

[cindy25]

and is it fair for the non-customers of wal-mart and the fast food pay for their employees health care and food stamps?

ideally medicaid and food stamps would be abolished, but even Scarlet O'Hara fed her own slaves on Tara.

that's why I hope the strike works

[fr33]

I'd be a scab and show up to get an application.

[Carlybee]

Coincidentally I am boycotting fast food today.

[TonySutton]

I heard about this so I made sure to bring leftovers with me for lunch :P

[brushfire]

"The jobs that nobody wants"

[Keith and stuff]

What, they already make $15,000 a year in the least expensive places to live in the US. When rent is only a few hundred a month, $15,000 a year is more than enough to live on.

[PierzStyx]

I got to say $7.25 in NY is going to be impossible to survive on. I remember getting paid I think $7.75 in 2001 ish working for burger king in the cheap midwest. I think at some point you got to start thinking about moving out of town

Or get some actual marketable skills that people will pay you more to use and stop being a friggen parasite. If I were these companies I would fire them all and replace them over night, show them just how replaceable they are and how they should be thankful for the job they have.

[PierzStyx]

Coincidentally I am boycotting fast food today.

Coincidentally I am buying fast food today.

[matt0611]

I got to say $7.25 in NY is going to be impossible to survive on. I remember getting paid I think $7.75 in 2001 ish working for burger king in the cheap midwest. I think at some point you got to start thinking about moving out of town

Exactly. People always complain that they "can't afford it here" at this or that wage...maybe that should be a signal to you to think about moving somewhere cheaper.

[oyarde]

I have a bacon sandwich , hickory smoked in a smokehouse , they can keep the fast food :)

[JK/SEA]

i'll do the job for 10 an hour.

[JK/SEA]

a Big Mac is about 3.50?.......would you pay 7 bucks for one?

[oyarde]

a Big Mac is about 3.50?.......would you pay 7 bucks for one?

I would not give $2.25.

[KingNothing]

I support everyone who works to better his or her life. I support everyone who works hard. I support everyone who asks for more money, and I support everyone who goes on strike.

That isn't to say I think these people should be paid more. I've no idea what they're worth. But as long as this all happens in a free market, more power to everyone involved.

[Cowlesy]

Hah, I remember being thrilled when I was requested to work weekends during the summer, because that meant overtime pay of $7.75 hour (versus my regular pay of $5.15 hour).

But by all means, ask for a 103% raise. I am sure Detroit McDonald's workers are top-flight employees, striving for excellence everyday they put on the uniform and are totally worth it. I imagine they'll guarantee business will double to keep margins reasonable.

[Root]

I've been striking against fast-"food" places since 2004. I can't wait until next year when I can say it's been 10 years since I've had a BigMac or Whopper.

[aGameOfThrones]

Laila Jennings, a 29-year-old sales associate at T.J. Maxx, was eating at a McDonald's in New York City this week and said she hadn't heard of the movement. Still, she said she thinks workers should be paid more. "They work on their feet all day," Jennings said, adding that $12 to $15 an hour seemed fair.

Next thing you'll tell me is that you want to get paid more too.


As it stands, fast-food workers say they can't live on what they're paid.

Shaniqua Davis, 20, lives in the Bronx with her boyfriend, who is unemployed, and their 1-year-old daughter. Davis has worked at a McDonald's a few blocks from her apartment for the past three months, earning $7.25 an hour. Her schedule varies, but she never gets close to 40 hours a week. "Forty? Never. They refuse to let you get to that (many) hours."

Maybe you shouldn't have had a kid yet?


Her weekly paycheck is $150 or much lower. "One of my paychecks, I only got $71 on there. So I wasn't able to do much with that. My daughter needs stuff, I need to get stuff for my apartment," said Davis, who plans to take part in the strike Thursday.

She pays the rent with public assistance but struggles to afford food, diapers, subway and taxi fares, cable TV and other expenses with her paycheck.

Tv? Other expenses? Perhaps a smartphone contract? No mentioned of who pays for Water and Electric, I'm guessing public assistance.

[jkr]

i ate a pear and a bunch of pistachios for lunch...
...WINNING!

[mczerone]

If there weren't so many people conditioned to be in such a sad state, this would be hilarious.

Manager: Sure, walk out. I'll have an entire new crew tomorrow and you'll have no job. In fact, I might just save some money the next few days because we'll be short staffed, and our customers will understand the poor service.

Someone should find a group of these striking employees and take them a tablet of some economics lectures about the minimum wage and entrepreneurship.

[AuH20]

If we weren't being royally screwed with income tax and property taxes, we could theoretically pay more for fast food, in turn paying you more in salary. But you ignoramuses will never learn. Will you? More discretionary income is an asset not a burden.

[otherone]

The chum is in the water for the usual RPF sharks.
I say more power to them. Strikes are a way to get an employers attention. It is none of my business how people choose to live, and where they choose to work, and what they choose to purchase. My only concern is when government is involved. What bothers me is that my taxes are paying for her apartment through public assistance. I don't care if they are fired, or whether they are successful and Big Macs go up a buck. Not my problem.

[angelatc]

As it stands, fast-food workers say they can't live on what they're paid.


Losers gonna lose.

[angelatc]

and is it fair for the non-customers of wal-mart and the fast food pay for their employees health care and food stamps?

ideally medicaid and food stamps would be abolished, but even Scarlet O'Hara fed her own slaves on Tara.

that's why I hope the strike works

The Walmart card is the same as the racist card. Congratulations. And comparing workers to slaves - wtf?

It's bone retarded to expect WalMart to pay a single penny more than what the market demands. As long as the liberals insist that the government should subsidize wages, then all businesses will certainly support liberal programs.

[trey4sports]

Hell, what they ought to be calling for is a DROP in the minimum wage because if the min. wage increase goes through most of those on the picket line will be heading to the unemployment office.

[AuH20]

Fight deflation at all costs. That's the mantra of the elites who are dependent on the parasite economy. As Ron has stated, if prices dropped accordingly to genuine, real-world demand, the minimum wage at it's current level would BUY MORE.

[tod evans]

Mmmmm!

Lips-n-assholes.....burp..

[Melissa]

What I want to know is lets say it works and they get 15 an hour for fast food..how many of those unskilled workers will actually still have a job because I am betting skilled workers that make less will turn in their profession to go flip burgers for more money...

[PaulConventionWV]

If I was managing one of those stores, I would have already told everyone working there that anyone scheduled on the 29th who doesn't show up to work is fired.
No exceptions.

I had one of these shit jobs once, and I learned the lesson people who have these jobs are supposed to learn:
Nobody is going to give you shit.

Go get financial assistance, get your asses to the community college, and study.
Or else, as Mr. Pink put it, "I got two words for that: learn to fuckin' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big fuckin' surprise."

You sound so sure of yourself, but in reality, it's more complicated. For instance, what if someone is legitimately absent on that day because of an unfortunate circumstance? What if all of your employees don't show up? Then what? How many employees can you risk losing and still run the business? That's not to say you're wrong for doing that, but would it really be the best business decision? That's something you might want to think about if you're going to be a manager.

[torchbearer]

good, maybe people will decide to eat something healthy today instead.

[PaulConventionWV]

All the fast food joints in my neighborhood look like they're all managed by someone in their 30's and operated by folks in their teens. Teens don't have house payments and the expenses adults do - so $7.25 is fine for them. If you're trying to run a life and family while working at a fast-food joint as an adult, you're doing something wrong. Those jobs are for teens, and there's no place for advancement - look for a job in the mail-room, or janitorial at some company, do a good job, get noticed, climb the ladder.

If I owned a fast food, and the people went on strike - I'd lock the door behind them and hire some people grateful to have a job.

Sorry if that offends anyone.

As I said in my earlier post, you might want to think about that a little bit. How are you going to run a store with no workers? Are you sure you can even find someone with the right skills who is willing to work for that wage and has the hours that you want them to work available? There are no guarantees, and any manager who plans on firing all of their employees for not showing up is just plain stupid. It requires a little more thinking than that.

[asurfaholic]

15/hr is borderline skilled labor pay around these parts. So you want to make that kind of money? Cool- go and learn a trade where you are valuable because you KNOW more than the unskilled sector.

Want to keep flipping burgers? Cool, but that's not a $15/hr job because any nimrod can do it.

[PaulConventionWV]

Or get some actual marketable skills that people will pay you more to use and stop being a friggen parasite. If I were these companies I would fire them all and replace them over night, show them just how replaceable they are and how they should be thankful for the job they have.

You are the third person to say that, and once again, you're wrong. It may be nice to fantasize about being a manager, but it's more complicated than just pushing out those disloyal bastards and hiring an all-new staff. What are the risks associated with firing all of your workers at once? Two of our cashiers just quit at the store at which I am office manager, and the sign reads "Cashiers needed immediately!" I am not in charge of hiring people, but I'm willing to bet my boss wouldn't want to lose another cashier, much less ALL of them, just to prove a point. We get an application in almost every day, but nobody has the hours we want or even seems suitable for the job, so finding quality employees is not as easy as you make it out to be with your brash "Fire all of them!" method.

[otherone]

What I want to know is lets say it works and they get 15 an hour for fast food..how many of those unskilled workers will actually still have a job because I am betting skilled workers that make less will turn in their profession to go flip burgers for more money...

In economics, this is known as the Twinkie Paradox...

[specsaregood]

Exactly. People always complain that they "can't afford it here" at this or that wage...maybe that should be a signal to you to think about moving somewhere cheaper.

Is moving free?

[ZENemy]

As a raw vegan I am proud to say this means nothing to me :)

I hope fast food is shut down for good.

[PaulConventionWV]

a Big Mac is about 3.50?.......would you pay 7 bucks for one?

Twice the woker's wages does not equal twice the price.

[WM_in_MO]

"She pays the rent with public assistance but struggles to afford food, diapers, subway and taxi fares, cable TV and other expenses with her paycheck"
Cable fucking tv. Boo fucking woo you lazy piece of shit.

[mczerone]

Is moving free?

Studies have shown that the poorest classes have the highest physical mobility. Explanations are that they have less ties to an area because they don't have business contacts, they have less to lose if their new location doesn't pan out, and emigration to a place with a system more amenable to poor starting businesses.

So, no, moving isn't free - but the fixed costs of moving are often more worth incurring if you have less resources to start with.

[V3n]

As I said in my earlier post, you might want to think about that a little bit. How are you going to run a store with no workers? Are you sure you can even find someone with the right skills who is willing to work for that wage and has the hours that you want them to work available? There are no guarantees, and any manager who plans on firing all of their employees for not showing up is just plain stupid. It requires a little more thinking than that.

Mind..blown! Well, in light of this new information, it's probably a good thing that I don't actually own a McDonald's and that section of my post was an entirely hypothetical rant. Thanks for being there!

[otherone]

15/hr is borderline skilled labor pay around these parts. So you want to make that kind of money? Cool- go and learn a trade where you are valuable because you KNOW more than the unskilled sector.

Want to keep flipping burgers? Cool, but that's not a $15/hr job because any nimrod can do it.

Laissez-faire, Bra'. Why harsh on someone trying to get ahead without government assistance. If a pipe fitter wants to flip burgers at McDonalds instead of fitting pipes, more power to 'em.

[PaulConventionWV]

The Walmart card is the same as the racist card. Congratulations. And comparing workers to slaves - wtf?

It's bone retarded to expect WalMart to pay a single penny more than what the market demands. As long as the liberals insist that the government should subsidize wages, then all businesses will certainly support liberal programs.

If the workers are striking -- that means the market demands more....

[specsaregood]

So, no, moving isn't free - but the fixed costs of moving are often more worth incurring if you have less resources to start with.

They might be more worth incurring; but coming up with the down payment is more difficult if you are already barely getting by. It is easy to say, "just move" when the reality can be far from easy. although I agree in principle.

[otherone]

Studies have shown that the poorest classes have the highest physical mobility. Explanations are that they have less ties to an area because they don't have business contacts, they have less to lose if their new location doesn't pan out, and emigration to a place with a system more amenable to poor starting businesses.


The poor don't own real estate, and have next to no assets, other than an automobile.
Read The Grapes of Wrath

[HOLLYWOOD]

So much for the $1 menu.. the $2 dollar menu

Only one that wins is government... yet the people are too stupid to see through the smoke screens.

people make more, the government takes more...
items cost more, the consumer pays more in sale taxes...
business does more revenue, the government takes more of that revenue...


The sneakiest-devious con-game by government is the tax system... design to steal more by Inflation and Progressive Tax Law CON GAME.

Someone who "gets it"...example of inflation game:
Former New Jersey Devil hockey star Ilya Kovalchuk is proof when he left his $100+ million contract with the NHL team and went back to Russia. Because of the U.S. progressive, Inflation based, over taxing system, when you earn more... his salary, over 50% percent went to US .gov taxes, he's now down to a flat 13% in Russia.

[PaulConventionWV]

Studies have shown that the poorest classes have the highest physical mobility. Explanations are that they have less ties to an area because they don't have business contacts, they have less to lose if their new location doesn't pan out, and emigration to a place with a system more amenable to poor starting businesses.

So, no, moving isn't free - but the fixed costs of moving are often more worth incurring if you have less resources to start with.

Another factor is that they rent more often than not, so they don't have to deal with all the difficulties of finding a buyer for their house. They can just pick up and find another cheap apartment somewhere else, no strings attached.

[PaulConventionWV]

//

[PaulConventionWV]

Mind..blown! Well, in light of this new information, it's probably a good thing that I don't actually own a McDonald's and that section of my post was an entirely hypothetical rant. Thanks for being there!

Umm... you're welcome? What you said sounds like sarcasm, but if you actually understood what managing a store takes, you would be totally serious. It probably is a good thing you don't own a McDonalds, or at least, that your managers know more than you do.

[torchbearer]

If the workers are striking -- that means the market demands more....

it means the workers demand more.
the market is choking on inflation, people don't have the extra cash they used to... fewer trips to fast food, more ham sandwiches.
that means, the wages should be going lower.

[matt0611]

They might be more worth incurring; but coming up with the down payment is more difficult if you are already barely getting by. It is easy to say, "just move" when the reality can be far from easy. although I agree in principle.

You don't have to "own" a house to live somewhere. Is moving free? No, it costs some money. Not a lot though. Especially if its only an hour or two out from where you are. If you don't own a lot of physical things then it costs even less.

People move all the time from one apartment to another. Out of the city, into the city, from one city to another etc. Its doable you just have to have the will to do it.

[matt0611]

it means the workers demand more.
the market is choking on inflation, people don't have the extra cash they used to... fewer trips to fast food, more ham sandwiches.
that means, the wages should be going lower.

Exactly. The market isn't demanding more, those workers just want a raise. I bet they could replace those workers with other minimum wage workers in a relatively short period of time if most of them left.

[dannno]

I might eat at one of these establishments 3-4 times a year, today I'll make it a point to scarf down a slider.

Ya maybe I'll go for an amonia drenched Baconator today for a change.

[JorgeStevenson]

I support these workers - however, I think $15/hr would ultimately be a bad deal for about 90% of them. At $15/hr, corporate is going to have a huge incentive to install self-service kiosks (like Sheetz/Wawa), automate even more of the cooking work, and outsource the janitorial work. Managers are only going to hire until the point at which marginal revenue equals marginal cost. I would imagine that only a very, very small portion of fast food workers bring in $15/hr worth of added revenue.

Still, I'm glad they're trying to better their situation since they feel underpaid. I'm just skeptical that it would actually work out.

[specsaregood]

You don't have to "own" a house to live somewhere.
I didn't mean to imply that you do. Maybe you think I meant that by "down payment"? Ok, how about nut or initial amount you have to pay. better? Even apartments usually require first, last, security deposit which can be a mite difficult when you barely make your current rent every month. Plus the cost of getting there, moving any possessions whatsoever. Uhauls aren't free.



People move all the time from one apartment to another. Out of the city, into the city, from one city to another etc. Its doable you just have to have the will to do it.
No doubt, I moved plenty. I remember it costing a lot each time and taking time saving or even getting help from family to do so. Not to mention the time having to find a job in a new location.

Like I said, I agree in principle but we get nowhere by making light of the situation for people stuck in poverty. Let them eat cake and all that jazz. "Just move" is not always the reality for the poor.

[RabbitMan]

What is up with all of the hate today?

Good for them for striking, it is a free market, they are entitled to ask from their employer what they want. I don't know why there is all of this public ridicule. And from there I feel like there is a real misunderstanding of the financial life of someone in poverty.

For many people you can not just "move where the market is better", because like someone else noted, that costs money. Thousands of dollars, unless you plan on moving into a homeless shelter in a different city. Most apartments that I know of require a deposit, and unless you have a lot of assets to show off, you better already have a job before sending in your lease. And even then, how would you know if that city is any better than the last? Not having a residence already before applying for a job in a depressed market will likely lead you to no jobs at all. So...yeah. Good luck saving up when you already can't make ends meet.

In regards to fast food wages, there was a (admittedly amateur) study done of how much of a price increase we could expect from McDonalds if they doubled wages. From a purely numerical standpoint, I believe the number was somewhere between $0.30 and $0.50, since wages were such a small part of costs as it stood. The point is, it is not unreasonable to ask for higher wages.

Nobody here is pleading that you necessarily support these folks, but to berate them is just callous.

[dannno]

What is up with all of the hate today?

Good for them for striking, it is a free market, they are entitled to ask from their employer what they want. I don't know why there is all of this public ridicule. And from there I feel like there is a real misunderstanding of the financial life of someone in poverty.

For many people you can not just "move where the market is better", because like someone else noted, that costs money. Thousands of dollars, unless you plan on moving into a homeless shelter in a different city. Most apartments that I know of require a deposit, and unless you have a lot of assets to show off, you better already have a job before sending in your lease. And even then, how would you know if that city is any better than the last? Not having a residence already before applying for a job in a depressed market will likely lead you to no jobs at all. So...yeah. Good luck saving up when you already can't make ends meet.

Nobody here is pleading that you necessarily support these folks, but to berate them is just callous.

tldr; what specs said (since we posted at the same time, haha)

I agree that its not their fault and people who have less should not be looked down on.

I think the issue is that this is an emotional reaction that isn't addressing the root problem and will actually result in everybody being worse off.

There is no way the market can bare forcing to pay them more because they would, as another poster said, begin to automate more of the tasks and lay people off.

The root problem is inflation, taxation and our costly military empire and so the reason they are berating these folks is mostly because they are completely ignoring everything that is causing the problem and only exacerbating it.

[JK/SEA]

anyone know what the average McDonalds franchise owner makes in profit per year? and what is spent on wages?

[angelatc]

You don't have to "own" a house to live somewhere. Is moving free? No, it costs some money. Not a lot though. Especially if its only an hour or two out from where you are. If you don't own a lot of physical things then it costs even less.

People move all the time from one apartment to another. Out of the city, into the city, from one city to another etc. Its doable you just have to have the will to do it.


The Mexicans manage to move from Mexico to Michigan. Our ancestors managed to move across an entire ocean.

[angelatc]

anyone know what the average McDonalds franchise owner makes in profit per year? and what is spent on wages?


So you think the government should cap compensation - we shouldn't be free to earn as much as we can?

[tod evans]

anyone know what the average McDonalds franchise owner makes in profit per year? and what is spent on wages?

Why is this relevant?

[matt0611]

What is up with all of the hate today?

Good for them for striking, it is a free market, they are entitled to ask from their employer what they want. I don't know why there is all of this public ridicule. And from there I feel like there is a real misunderstanding of the financial life of someone in poverty.

For many people you can not just "move where the market is better", because like someone else noted, that costs money. Thousands of dollars, unless you plan on moving into a homeless shelter in a different city. Most apartments that I know of require a deposit, and unless you have a lot of assets to show off, you better already have a job before sending in your lease. And even then, how would you know if that city is any better than the last? Not having a residence already before applying for a job in a depressed market will likely lead you to no jobs at all. So...yeah. Good luck saving up when you already can't make ends meet.

In regards to fast food wages, there was a (admittedly amateur) study done of how much of a price increase we could expect from McDonalds if they doubled wages. From a purely numerical standpoint, I believe the number was somewhere between $0.30 and $0.50, since wages were such a small part of costs as it stood. The point is, it is not unreasonable to ask for higher wages.

Nobody here is pleading that you necessarily support these folks, but to berate them is just callous.

No one's berating them. I support their right to strike, and I support their managers for firing them and hiring others if they want to.

Many claim that they can't afford to live in some of these cities on these wages, all I'm saying is that you don't have a guarantee to be able to live in some places on any wage and it may be a signal that you should be thinking about trying to move somewhere that's more affordable for you. Many cities have very high costs of living because of their governments (rent control, taxes, etc).

[angelatc]

What is up with all of the hate today?

Good for them for striking, it is a free market, they are entitled to ask from their employer what they want. I don't know why there is all of this public ridicule. And from there I feel like there is a real misunderstanding of the financial life of someone in poverty.

For many people you can not just "move where the market is better", because like someone else noted, that costs money. Thousands of dollars, unless you plan on moving into a homeless shelter in a different city. Most apartments that I know of require a deposit, and unless you have a lot of assets to show off, you better already have a job before sending in your lease. And even then, how would you know if that city is any better than the last? Not having a residence already before applying for a job in a depressed market will likely lead you to no jobs at all. So...yeah. Good luck saving up when you already can't make ends meet.

In regards to fast food wages, there was a (admittedly amateur) study done of how much of a price increase we could expect from McDonalds if they doubled wages. From a purely numerical standpoint, I believe the number was somewhere between $0.30 and $0.50, since wages were such a small part of costs as it stood. The point is, it is not unreasonable to ask for higher wages.

Nobody here is pleading that you necessarily support these folks, but to berate them is just callous.

I hope they get fired and someone who is unemployed and would value the job takes their place. How's that suit you?

It is absolutely unreasonable to ask for higher wages if you have done nothing to add any value to your skill set.

[V3n]

I've just never really respected going-on-strike. If you think your job is harsh, or you're underpaid, ask for a raise - if you don't get it, go work somewhere else. You agreed to work for X amount, part of that is a contract to appear at X hours - if you don't show up at X hours - you've broken your contract and should be released to follow your dream.

If you can't find other places to work, or can't find the wage you're looking for - then be grateful for what you have, or increase your skills/knowledge and try again.

[tod evans]

A laborer's wage isn't determined by what he "needs" it's determined by how cheaply he can be replaced.

Don't like it, start your own company.

[angelatc]

I might eat at one of these establishments 3-4 times a year, today I'll make it a point to scarf down a slider.

THanks for the idea. Just called the hunny and asked him to grab McD's on the way home.

[angelatc]

The poor don't own real estate, and have next to no assets, other than an automobile.
Read The Grapes of Wrath

You mean, the novel where the poor family moves to find work, finds Utopian shelter in government camps and are morally appalled to find themselves working as scabs when the unions are trying to force wages higher in a glutted labor market?

[otherone]

I've just never really respected going-on-strike. If you think your job is harsh, or you're underpaid, ask for a raise - if you don't get it, go work somewhere else.

Or simply slack off, like the middle class does.

[mczerone]

I'm not saying that the people who are striking don't have shitty lives, I don't have any animosity for them.

In fact, I have pity for them: they are taking an action that they think will help their lives but which most certainly harm them because they lack an understanding of basic economics.

Part of our goal in spreading liberty must also be in economics education: most people in this world have ZERO sense of inter-personal economics, even many business owners and most politicians. And what they do know has been tainted by Marxist ass-backward thinking and/or Keynesianism. We can't spread liberty if people don't understand that price controls (e.g. minimum wage, inter-bank-overnight lending interest rates) are counter-productive. We can't spread liberty if people don't understand that they have to provide value to earn wealth.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Weed, alcohol, and TV have gone through the roof, so they should definitely be paid more.

[V3n]

Or simply slack off, like the middle class does.

..by surfing RPF all day! :o

[otherone]

You mean, the novel where the poor family moves to find work?

Yes. People migrate to find work.

[angelatc]

I'm not saying that the people who are striking don't have shitty lives, I don't have any animosity for them.

In fact, I have pity for them: they are taking an action that they think will help their lives but which most certainly harm them because they lack an understanding of basic economics..

Meh - sane people go to school to get an education when they want to better themselves. These are just the dregs of the working class.

[specsaregood]

You mean, the novel where the poor family moves to find work

you'd never make it across the US in a vehicle like that nowadays, probably wouldn't make it past 2 states, overloaded with goods and children not in seatbelts?! the horror. hell, the probably didn't even have insurance.

[otherone]

Meh - sane people go to school to get an education when they want to better themselves. These are just the dregs of the working class.

...and here I thought it was only the progs who played the class warfare card.

[angelatc]

...and here I thought it was only the progs who played the class warfare card.

The status doesn't come from their position, it comes from their response to being in that position.

[otherone]

..by surfing RPF all day! :o

lol. I ain't no wage-slave. I'm self-employed. If I don't work, I don't eat.

[AuH20]

Meh - sane people go to school to get an education when they want to better themselves. These are just the dregs of the working class.

College isn't for everyone. The problem is that our trade schools are dying and #2, our backwards society has tricked others into thinking that working with your hands is somehow undignified.

[otherone]

The status doesn't come from their position, it comes from their response to being in that position.

Actually, it comes from you assigning them that position. I prefer individualism.

[AuH20]

Or simply slack off, like the middle class does.

At least the middle class pays the full gamut of taxes. I hate to say it. Someone is paying for the bennies.

[otherone]

College isn't for everyone. The problem is that our trade schools are dying and #2, our backwards society has tricked others into thinking that working with your hands is somehow undignified.


The public school system trains our youth to be wage slaves after attending a liberal art college. These are angelatc's "sane persons".

[angelatc]

Actually, it comes from you assigning them that position. I prefer individualism.

Here's individualism: the CEO of McDonalds started out on the line. These people assigned themselves the title when they decided to try to gangbang their employer instead of improving their skill set to make themselves more valuable.

[bunklocoempire]

Fast food strikes?

Government is the tapeworm in the host eating into wages -but by all means let's worry about how much food we can get others to shovel into the host.

:rolleyes:

[pcosmar]

Any of ya all near any of these over hyped "strikes"?

Or is this another non- event outside of News media.,, like the non-existent Walmart strike?

[mczerone]

Meh - sane people go to school to get an education when they want to better themselves. These are just the dregs of the working class.

Ideally, sure. But having grown up with poor-to-lower-middle-class people, they perceive that it's impossible to spend money and time on school when they have immediate costs to bear in child-rearing, rent, and food.

You tell them to save, but for that they need work. To work they need daycare, a car, and to take a minimum wage job. They don't have but $10/mo. that exceeds their necessary budget.

There might still be ways for them to get out of their work-to-live life, but they don't have the guidance to help them do it, and not even state welfare will teach them how to save money, to be more efficient, to be more "well adjusted" or any number of things that could actually help them. Most just don't have the option to grow their human capital with their current situation, whether the situation was self-created or happenstance.

[angelatc]

College isn't for everyone. The problem is that our trade schools are dying and #2, our backwards society has tricked others into thinking that working with your hands is somehow undignified.

That just means there will be a shortage of plumbers, mechanics and the like, which will make those wages rise higher.

[otherone]

Here's individualism: the CEO of McDonalds started out on the line. These people assigned themselves the title when they decided to try to gangbang their employer instead of improving their skill set to make themselves more valuable.

Some of these "dregs" as you call them, will go on to live successful lives. Some won't. None of my business. It's the same with the wealthy. Some rape and pillage. Some earn their dough through innovation and hard work. None of my business.....as long as my tax dollars aren't involved. I don't judge a group of people based on the actions of a few. That's what libs do.

[angelatc]

Ideally, sure. But having grown up with poor-to-lower-middle-class people, they perceive that it's impossible to spend money and time on school when they have immediate costs to bear in child-rearing, rent, and food.

You tell them to save, but for that they need work. To work they need daycare, a car, and to take a minimum wage job. They don't have but $10/mo. that exceeds their necessary budget.

There might still be ways for them to get out of their work-to-live life, but they don't have the guidance to help them do it, and not even state welfare will teach them how to save money, to be more efficient, to be more "well adjusted" or any number of things that could actually help them. Most just don't have the option to grow their human capital with their current situation, whether the situation was self-created or happenstance.

Life will just never be easy for those people then. Because the government could not possibly make it much easier to go to school.

[angelatc]

Some of these "dregs" as you call them, will go on to live successful lives. Some won't. None of my business. It's the same with the wealthy. Some rape and pillage. Some earn their dough through innovation and hard work. None of my business.....as long as my tax dollars aren't involved. I don't judge a group of people based on the actions of a few. That's what libs do.

Whatever. I'm calling the losers who are striking for better pay dregs. I own that.

The people who will go on to live successful lives are the people at work flipping burgers today, telling their unemployed friends that they should come fill out an application ASAP.

[AuH20]

That just means there will be a shortage of plumbers, mechanics and the like, which will make those wages rise higher.

Possibly. But the quality control in my business is at an all time low. The older craftsmen are so disenchanted with the current generation that they don't want to pass on critical knowledge. When they die, all their knowledge will die with them.

[cajuncocoa]

and is it fair for the non-customers of wal-mart and the fast food pay for their employees health care and food stamps?

ideally medicaid and food stamps would be abolished, but even Scarlet O'Hara fed her own slaves on Tara.

that's why I hope the strike worksI'm not really following your logic here. Of course that wouldn't be fair, but at the same time, if they demand a higher wage but their current employer won't give it to them, they are free to find another, better-paying job. And while it's not fair for the non-customers to pay for the employees health care and food stamps, neither would it be fair for the customers to pay for it either. Pay your own damned health care and groceries!

sincerely,
heartless libertarian

[AuH20]

Whatever. I'm calling the losers who are striking for better pay dregs. I own that.

The people who will go on to live successful lives are the people at work flipping burgers today, telling their unemployed friends that they should come fill out an application ASAP.

They're still not losers. I have a measure of more respect for those willing to endure the pay dregs as opposed to being a lifelong ward of the state.

[angelatc]

Possibly. But the quality control in my business is at an all time low. The older craftsmen are so disenchanted with the current generation that they don't want to pass on critical knowledge.

I wonder how technology affects the older workers? I remember trying to teach a woman how to use a computer. She had worked in an office all her life, but the technology revolution was hard for her. She could type 120 wpm, but simply couldn't grasp the concept that the paper was no longer necessary until the end of the process, and that the "Return" key wasn't necessary at the end of every line any more.

It sounds minor, but it was really hard for her.

I see the same thing with nurses, too. The doctor gets some new machine or piece of equipment, and they mutter about how the old one was perfectly adequate.

[angelatc]

They're still not losers. I have a measure of more respect for those willing to endure the pay dregs as opposed to being a lifelong ward of the state.

Oh sure. The dregs of the working class, certainly not the dregs of society.

[mczerone]

Whatever. I'm calling the losers who are striking for better pay dregs. I own that.

The people who will go on to live successful lives are the people at work flipping burgers today, telling their unemployed friends that they should come fill out an application ASAP.

Realistically they are just uneducated/mis-educated as to how to get higher wages/improve their lives.

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

[Brian4Liberty]

So Shaniqua, is your boyfriend limbless? Tell him to get off his ass and go find a McDonalds job too; now you are making $14.50 an hour.

He did his job. He provided sperm.



Maybe you shouldn't have had a kid yet?


That is their main source of income.

[Brian4Liberty]

The irony here is that the majority of the people involved probably support amnesty and more immigration. Supply and demand. Too many workers makes every worker worth less.

[otherone]

neither would it be fair for the customers to pay for it either. Pay your own damned health care and groceries!


umm....huh?

[cajuncocoa]

Realistically they are just uneducated/mis-educated as to how to get higher wages/improve their lives.

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

what they should be doing is improving their own lot in life (i.e., if uneducated or miseducated, start the re-education process)...nobody says it's easy, but their lack of education is not their employer's problem. There is no reason he should have to have his business suffer from a work stoppage due to an uneducated work force.

[otherone]

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

/thread

[cajuncocoa]

umm....huh?
what about that don't you understand?

[Brian4Liberty]

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

This strike was planned as a reaction and protest to the fact that they failed to convince Congress to raise the national minimum wage. The goal is still a higher state-mandated wage.

[otherone]

neither would it be fair for the customers to pay for it either. Pay your own damned health care and groceries!



what about that don't you understand?

You realize that customers can choose to shop elsewhere? In addition, you realize that all employee compensation is ultimately derived already from customers, and it's impossible for an employee to pay for anything without them?

[Seraphim]

This.

McDonals recently hired 6800 people and turned down nearly 1 million applicants.

Unskilled labor has no leverage in the West. None. ZILCH.

They are hurting themselves because they will find themselves out of a job with people lined out the door happy to replace them.


I'm not saying that the people who are striking don't have shitty lives, I don't have any animosity for them.

In fact, I have pity for them: they are taking an action that they think will help their lives but which most certainly harm them because they lack an understanding of basic economics.

Part of our goal in spreading liberty must also be in economics education: most people in this world have ZERO sense of inter-personal economics, even many business owners and most politicians. And what they do know has been tainted by Marxist ass-backward thinking and/or Keynesianism. We can't spread liberty if people don't understand that price controls (e.g. minimum wage, inter-bank-overnight lending interest rates) are counter-productive. We can't spread liberty if people don't understand that they have to provide value to earn wealth.

[mello]

Coincidentally I am boycotting fast food today.

You won't have to boycott if they get double their current pay. Who the hell is going to spend $16 for a Big Mac meal in NYC? If they get what they want they are going to end up out of a job.

[otherone]

There is no reason he should have to have his business suffer from a work stoppage due to an uneducated work force.

Maybe next time he'll only hire those who wish to improve their lot in life. He does have a choice in who he hires, right? Isn't it his fault he hired dregs who would walk on him?

[angelatc]

Realistically they are just uneducated/mis-educated as to how to get higher wages/improve their lives.

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

I would wager a kingly sum that they are indeed also lobbying for a higher minimum wage. In fact, I suspect that that's what is at the root of all this. I'm going to go do some digging.....

[bunklocoempire]

Originally Posted by mczerone View Post

At least they are striking the businesses for peaceful redress and not protesting for a higher state-mandated wage.

/thread

Because the SEIU tends to stay out of politics and refuses the help of the state's gun? lol :rolleyes:


Mary Kay Henry, president of the Service Employees International Union, which is providing the fast-food strikes with financial support and training, said the actions in recent months show that fast-food workers can be mobilized, despite the industry's relatively higher turnover rates and younger age.

[AuH20]

I wonder what the wages for a McDonalds employee in the 1960s could buy? Substantially more I would guess.

[angelatc]

I would wager a kingly sum that they are indeed also lobbying for a higher minimum wage. In fact, I suspect that that's what is at the root of all this. I'm going to go do some digging.....

First name I searched, from this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-restaurants-strike-20130828,0,3586222.story) which was the first I clicked on, is Martin Rafanan. He is a Community Organizer, and his linked in (http://www.linkedin.com/in/martinrafanan)page reads in part: "The campaign is allied to efforts that will produce concrete wins for working families including increasing the minimum wage,.."

This is the left gearing up for election season, make no mistake about it.

[mello]

The real problem is lowering the teen pregnancy rates. These jobs are meant for teens who want part-time jobs to get into the workforce & save some money for school. It is not meant to be a full time job for you & one or more children.

In the scheme of things, investing in free condoms & sex education would be a lot cheaper than supporting all of these unplanned babies. For teens that have unprotected sex, we should teach them the best time to have intercourse so there will be no chance of pregnancy. It would save society billions in the long run.

[Keith and stuff]

You won't have to boycott if they get double their current pay. Who the hell is going to spend $16 for a Big Mac meal in NYC? If they get what they want they are going to end up out of a job.

When a slice of pizza in Manhattan is 99cents, my guess is very few people.

[KingNothing]

If the workers are striking -- that means the market demands more....

No it doesn't. It means that some collection of workers are demanding more. It does not mean that consumers are willing to foot the bill, that the company can maintain acceptable margins, or that there is not a pool of workers willing to replace the striking workers at the current wage.

[otherone]

This is the left gearing up for election season, make no mistake about it.

you and your conspiracy theories...:D

[KingNothing]

I hope they get fired and someone who is unemployed and would value the job takes their place. How's that suit you?

It is absolutely unreasonable to ask for higher wages if you have done nothing to add any value to your skill set.


I hope they get higher wages, margins are maintained, prices don't increase, and all other stakeholders benefit.

Why would you hope for a negative thing to happen? What sense does that make?

[KingNothing]

Or simply slack off, like the middle class does.


I'm not sure where this notion that America is a nation of lazy pieces of garbage came from.

A lot of poor people work multiple jobs to make ends meet. A lot of middle class families have become two-income households as they try to raise their kids. America takes less vacation days and works more hours than almost any other nation in the world. On top of that, our skilled professionals are some of the most dynamic problem solvers in the global workforce. We've got the most productive scientists, engineers and thinkers in the world, and a strain of hard-working entrepreneurialism woven into the fabric of our culture too.

I don't for a minute buy into the pessimistic view of the American worker. Spend some time abroad or work with people from elsewhere, and understand that we're importing their best and brightest. As crummy as our country might seem, from time to time, it could be a helluvalot worse.

[dannno]

What a rip-off. I just went to Wendy's and got the 1/4 pound pretzel bacon cheeseburger.. I wanted to get the double pretzel bacon cheeseburger but it was $6.49 + tax, JUST FOR THE BURGER!! The single was about $5.39 after tax.. I could have gone across the street and got a grass fed double char with cheese and bacon at The Habit for the price of the single!! (which is, of course, what I normally do..)

[AuH20]

What a rip-off. I just went to Wendy's and got the 1/4 pound pretzel bacon cheeseburger.. I wanted to get the double pretzel bacon cheeseburger but it was $6.49 + tax, JUST FOR THE BURGER!! The single was about $5.39 after tax.. I could have gone across the street and got a grass fed double char with cheese and bacon at The Habit for the price of the single!! (which is, of course, what I normally do..)

I notice they charge extra for cheese now in some of these places.

[matt0611]

I'm not sure where this notion that America is a nation of lazy pieces of garbage came from.

A lot of poor people work multiple jobs to make ends meet. A lot of middle class families have become two-income households as they try to raise their kids. America takes less vacation days and works more hours than almost any other nation in the world. On top of that, our skilled professionals are some of the most dynamic problem solvers in the global workforce. We've got the most productive scientists, engineers and thinkers in the world, and a strain of hard-working entrepreneurialism woven into the fabric of our culture too.

I don't for a minute buy into the pessimistic view of the American worker. Spend some time abroad or work with people from elsewhere, and understand that we're importing their best and brightest. As crummy as our country might seem, from time to time, it could be a helluvalot worse.


I think the vast majority of americans that DO work are pretty hard working. Its the huge amount of people that don't work that are the lazy ones. (except if you're retired or truly disabled etc)

[pcosmar]

So are the Fast food restaurants open?

Is there a Strike or not?
Are the protesters really Fast Food workers or are they an organized mob collected for show?

Is this just more Hype. ??

[pcosmar]

What a rip-off. I just went to Wendy's and got the 1/4 pound pretzel bacon cheeseburger.. I wanted to get the double pretzel bacon cheeseburger but it was $6.49 + tax, JUST FOR THE BURGER!! The single was about $5.39 after tax.. I could have gone across the street and got a grass fed double char with cheese and bacon at The Habit for the price of the single!! (which is, of course, what I normally do..)

So your local Wendy's was open. No Strike there?

[cajuncocoa]

You realize that customers can choose to shop elsewhere? In addition, you realize that all employee compensation is ultimately derived already from customers, and it's impossible for an employee to pay for anything without them?

For wages, yes. I don't necessarily support the idea of healthcare being paid for by employers. Being self-employed, I have to pay for my own...why shouldn't others?

[cajuncocoa]

Maybe next time he'll only hire those who wish to improve their lot in life. He does have a choice in who he hires, right? Isn't it his fault he hired dregs who would walk on him?

First of all, you're confusing me with angelatc. I didn't call these employees "dregs".

Next, no it's not his fault that he hired people who will walk out on him. Those people were offered a certain wage for a particular job for which they applied, and they accepted the employers' offer at the time they were hired. I assume they were aptly qualified to do the job they were hired to do, otherwise, they would not have been hired. When circumstances change (employee needs more money due to wanting to consume more than he/she makes at the moment) that's the time to look for higher-paying job (and/or increase your own qualifications). You could also ask for a wage increase, but if the employer can't afford that, it's time to move on.

[cajuncocoa]

Or simply slack off, like the middle class does.

Speak for yourself. I'm middle class, and I'm no slacker.

[otherone]

For wages, yes. I don't necessarily support the idea of healthcare being paid for by employers. Being self-employed, I have to pay for my own...why shouldn't others?

But won't that health insurance payment come from wages?



Next, no it's not his fault that he hired people who will walk out on him.

Of course it is. he could only hire those enrolled in college....people looking to better themselves, thereby reducing the possibility of walkouts.




Speak for yourself. I'm middle class, and I'm no slacker.

So am I. I'm also self-employed, I also pay ALL of my SE taxes and healthcare. I also know a ton of cubicle rats who spend a lot of time during work shopping online, involved in social media, or on personal phone calls.

[angelatc]

I notice they charge extra for cheese now in some of these places.

Wendy's has always charged extra for cheese, afaik. I have a Big Mac and Fries headed this way, along with an aspartame filled Diet Coke to wash it down with. Yum!

[Brian4Liberty]

Since this is the Ron Paul Forums, and all of this talk about wages and the price of food is talking place, I just wanted to suggest that the Federal Reserve is the root cause of rising prices. Monetary inflation leads to price inflation. It's inevitable. It does not effect every price (or wage) immediately, equally, or at the same time, but it will happen.

Some strategies have been used to specifically offset inflation in the price of food and labor prices*, but they are temporary, and will fail in the long run.

* increased importation of cheaper food to keep costs down.
* utilize previously discarded meat.
* import cheaper workers via immigration, which also increases available labor supply, thus reducing wages.
* outsource production to cheaper areas, which both lowers price of goods and increases available domestic labor supply, thus reducing wages.

[angelatc]

So am I. I'm also self-employed, I also pay ALL of my SE taxes and healthcare. I also know a ton of cubicle rats who spend a lot of time during work shopping online, involved in social media, or on personal phone calls.

I'll admit that I've been that person, in several situations. At no time did I have work stacked up on my desk at that time though. I have supervised people, and most of them actually want to stay busy, imho.

[ravedown]

I've heard people talking about this today, i tell them-
prices go up, people laid off.
who do you think will be effected most by this?

[angelatc]

I've heard people talking about this today, i tell them-
prices go up, people laid off.
who do you think will be effected most by this?

The liberal left has a big cache of information that proves raising the minimum wage actually increases employment and benefits the economy. Here's one: http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2011-03.pdf#page=3

[cajuncocoa]

But won't that health insurance payment come from wages?
Yes, but it's not (or shouldn't be) the employer's responsibility to acquire such health insurance and pay for it.


Of course it is. he could only hire those enrolled in college....people looking to better themselves, thereby reducing the possibility of walkouts.Enrollment in college (or even possessing a degree) is no guarantee that one will not think the world owes them something. In fact, it's the kind of stuff they fill your head with in colleges. You have to work really hard to ignore the indoctrination, but if you already think that way, college will only reinforce it.




So am I. I'm also self-employed, I also pay ALL of my SE taxes and healthcare. I also know a ton of cubicle rats who spend a lot of time during work shopping online, involved in social media, or on personal phone calls.That kind of behavior is not limited to the middle class.

[Legend1104]

They work on their feet all day

Oh NO! Not their feet! That should be criminal. You would think with all of these peoples standing skills they would be paid so much more. I mean, not everyone can stand on their feet so that is definitely a useful skill set.

[phill4paul]

Oh NO! Not their feet! That should be criminal. You would think with all of these peoples standing skills they would be paid so much more. I mean, not everyone can stand on their feet so that is definitely a useful skill set.

Some get payed a hell of a lot more for laying on their back. :p

[fr33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC_v9fsHm-w

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Fast-food-strikes-set-for-cities-nationwide-4770082.php

From the article: She pays the rent with public assistance but struggles to afford food, diapers, subway and taxi fares, cable TV and other expenses with her paycheck.



Wonder if the "other expenses" are anything like cable TV. Give me a friggin' break. This is little more than the entitlement mentality. The "strikes" are nothing but public relations ploys with a different goal. The deep pockets funding the "strikes" know they don't have a Chinaman's chance of getting $15 per hour. They are marketing their cause with the end goal of lobbying government to make business comply with their demands.

Oh, and don't think for a minute these deep pockets don't understand economics. They bypass reality economics and have big government do their bidding.

I have nothing against a person approaching his boss and presenting a legit case for a raise. This is not that scenario. And this is coming from someone who:

-Says Stick it to Man as much as you can.
-Hasn't eaten at McFatAsses since the 1980s.
-Sees the value in a workforce collective voice.
-Belonged to a union (although I opted out).
-Never sets foot in Walmart (Well, not entirely true. I use their toilet when I travel)._

[Natural Citizen]

And this is coming from someone who:

-Says Stick it to Man as much as you can.
-Hasn't eaten at McFatAsses since the 1980s.
-Sees the value in a workforce collective voice.
-Belonged to a union (although I opted out).
-Never sets foot in Walmart (Well, not entirely true. I use their toilet when I travel)._

Got me chuckling....:)

[osan]

a Big Mac is about 3.50?.......would you pay 7 bucks for one?


I wouldn't pay anything for one. In fact I would not eat one if THEY pain ME.

[oyarde]

You sound so sure of yourself, but in reality, it's more complicated. For instance, what if someone is legitimately absent on that day because of an unfortunate circumstance? What if all of your employees don't show up? Then what? How many employees can you risk losing and still run the business? That's not to say you're wrong for doing that, but would it really be the best business decision? That's something you might want to think about if you're going to be a manager.

I would fire every last one of them , when it was convenient, have them train replacements first, fuck the schedules around then, later , if I wanted one person back , I would ask them to come back :)

[oyarde]

So your local Wendy's was open. No Strike there?

I drove by a shit load of them today ,back & forth to work , all open , this nutjob leftist union drive thing is usually restricted to the very large cities which is the base , small town kid knows better,he wants his job next week ....the union needs dues , shrinking, have to support those 1/2 million a year salaries at the top....

[fr33]

I would fire every last one of them , when it was convenient, have them train replacements first, fuck the schedules around then, later , if I wanted one person back , I would ask them to come back :)

And it would be very easy to do. Fast food workers are some of the easiest workers to replace. That industry has an incredibly high turnover rate.

[PaulConventionWV]

it means the workers demand more.
the market is choking on inflation, people don't have the extra cash they used to... fewer trips to fast food, more ham sandwiches.
that means, the wages should be going lower.

Well, I guess that is just the sad situation we are in. But nonetheless, the workers are part of the market, and they must be respected as such.

[oyarde]

Essentially, crooked American unions function like fed govt .They take money, you get nothing, fat cats at the top squander , then they price you out of a job ..... fuck that, never been for me. I have run many different businesss , never took a union shop, the companies I worked for had union shops in the same towns, open shops , and the non union places I ran paid more , bigger bonuses, better benefits than the decent paying union shops.Much easier for me to run and get higher productivity .Which is why they were built in the first place. Who wants to pay for nothing ? Hell you already pay taxes....

[PaulConventionWV]

Oh sure. The dregs of the working class, certainly not the dregs of society.

What, you don't think that's a valid distinction? Between those who work for a living and those who just live on taxpayer money? Are you serious?

[PaulConventionWV]

No it doesn't. It means that some collection of workers are demanding more. It does not mean that consumers are willing to foot the bill, that the company can maintain acceptable margins, or that there is not a pool of workers willing to replace the striking workers at the current wage.

Let's face it... if people were satisfied with their wages, they wouldn't be striking. You don't start a "nationwide" protest (if it really is that) without a LOT of unsatisfied workers. The workers count as part of the market, last time I checked.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not sure where this notion that America is a nation of lazy pieces of garbage came from.

A lot of poor people work multiple jobs to make ends meet. A lot of middle class families have become two-income households as they try to raise their kids. America takes less vacation days and works more hours than almost any other nation in the world. On top of that, our skilled professionals are some of the most dynamic problem solvers in the global workforce. We've got the most productive scientists, engineers and thinkers in the world, and a strain of hard-working entrepreneurialism woven into the fabric of our culture too.

I don't for a minute buy into the pessimistic view of the American worker. Spend some time abroad or work with people from elsewhere, and understand that we're importing their best and brightest. As crummy as our country might seem, from time to time, it could be a helluvalot worse.

And yet, despite all our hard work, we don't produce as much as other countries. We import way more than we export. Show me a a hard worker just trying to feed their family, and I'll show you a fat slob living off the taxpayer. The idea that America is a nation of lazy pieces of garbage came from the fact that we are a nation of lazy pieces of garbage, by and large. You should see some of the unmotivated idiots I have to deal with on a regular basis.

[PaulConventionWV]

I would fire every last one of them , when it was convenient, have them train replacements first, fuck the schedules around then, later , if I wanted one person back , I would ask them to come back :)

If you waited until later to fire them out of the blue, you would probably get sued for wrongful termination.

[oyarde]

If you waited until later to fire them out of the blue, you would probably get sued for wrongful termination.

Negative .No person is protected.

[jjdoyle]

Or get some actual marketable skills that people will pay you more to use and stop being a friggen parasite. If I were these companies I would fire them all and replace them over night, show them just how replaceable they are and how they should be thankful for the job they have.

That's the thing though, people graduating college are applying to work at fast-food restaurants now. I'm 100% serious. It's not because they necessarily want to do it, but because that's the only industry they can seem to get their foot in the door.

How many people here on RPF can get somebody a job making $50K a year instantly? I doubt very many.

Apparently though, it did happen down in Louisiana in certain spots as well. Not sure if it happened in my state though. We don't eat out much.

[oyarde]

Reality is , these dumbasses have a problem , they are selling a sandwich for x , that can never be sold for x to cover the wage increase , not to mention these jobs , other than management are meant for youngsters . Your fucked nation has a problem too. It is called work force participation, which , at a 34 year low will continue to slide from current , ( down ) 63.4 % to probably around 60 % to a great depression and mounting debt due to decreased tax revenue , due to Obummercare, of course there will be no spending cuts .... first , today, it is the currency of India in the toilet( happening now ) , eventually it is this one too. Nobody is giving $9 for a sucky fast food burger like in Australia with the minimum wage they have there .......

[oyarde]

Let's face it... if people were satisfied with their wages, they wouldn't be striking. You don't start a "nationwide" protest (if it really is that) without a LOT of unsatisfied workers. The workers count as part of the market, last time I checked.

They need to find a real job , oh wait , there are none of those, but , wait, they voted for the destruction of those ,,,,,,

[oyarde]

Probably figured they would get themslves some " free" healthcare , since the rest of what they get is so " free" , dumbasses should have learned to read ......

[oyarde]

This is the new economy, do not feel pity for a guy working two $8 jobs , save it for the guy who would , but cannot get one .Reality.

[phill4paul]

Did not see one fast food eatery shut down in my town. Fail. Firebombings may have gotten some attention.

[JK/SEA]

So you think the government should cap compensation - we shouldn't be free to earn as much as we can?

just asking. If you don't know, you don't know. Stop with the jumping to conclusions crap.

[JK/SEA]

Why is this relevant?

just asking. If you don't know, you don't know.

[Cleaner44]

Its too bad these workers don't picket the Federal Reserve for destroying the value of the money they earn.

[Brian4Liberty]

A friend's family business was recently put out of business by the Union. His father was a big Union supporter and always hired Union, but with so much non-Union and illegal immigrant labor being used by competition, they couldn't compete anymore. It turns out the Union contracts made them liable for Union unfunded pension liabilities (created by poor Union management of funds), so to stop using the Union would have resulted in millions of dollars in charges. Only way out was bankruptcy and shut-down.

[Brian4Liberty]

Its too bad these workers don't picket the Federal Reserve for destroying the value of the money they earn.

Hard to get to the root cause with a kindergarten level knowledge of economics and monetary policy.

[cajuncocoa]

Hard to get to the root cause with a kindergarten level knowledge of economics and monetary policy.

If they had a better knowledge about those things, perhaps they could afford to provide healthcare and food for themselves. And we've come full circle.

[V3n]

Fun discussion!

For the religious folk.. Do you find the relevance in the Parable of the Laborers that I do?


Matthew 20:1-16

New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Workers in the Vineyard

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius[a] for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

Even growing up, I think this parable helped shape my attitudes on property rights and contracts. To me the fast-food workers are complaining about their wage, but the owner is saying 'hey, we made a deal and you signed it. don't I have the right to pay what I think is fair? (and you have the right to not work here)'

I think this parable fits so perfectly the situation here.

[Beorn]

McDonalds provides absolutely nothing positive to our society.

They buy shit. They sell shit. They pay shit.

Their employees shouldn't strike. They should quit.

[dannno]

Ya maybe I'll go for an amonia drenched Baconator today for a change.


What a rip-off. I just went to Wendy's and got the 1/4 pound pretzel bacon cheeseburger.. I wanted to get the double pretzel bacon cheeseburger but it was $6.49 + tax, JUST FOR THE BURGER!! The single was about $5.39 after tax.. I could have gone across the street and got a grass fed double char with cheese and bacon at The Habit for the price of the single!! (which is, of course, what I normally do..)

Man that pretzel burger was a bad idea.. ended up with a stomach ache yesterday and felt like SHIT this morning..

Do yourself a favor, if you have the same idea, just go drop off $5 at the fast food establishment of your choice and don't take any food - if they ask if you want fries with that, remember, "JUST SAY NO!"

[AuH20]

Hard to get to the root cause with a kindergarten level knowledge of economics and monetary policy.

This illustrates the problem.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYpXstCib3Y

[euphemia]

I can tell you this: If people want to earn $15 an hour, they jolly well better provide $15 an hour service. Nobody is going to pay double for a burger if the order is wrong and the fries are cold. Again.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

McDonalds provides absolutely nothing positive to our society.

They buy shit. They sell shit. They pay shit.

Their employees shouldn't strike. They should quit.

Sums it up pretty good.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I can tell you this: If people want to earn $15 an hour, they jolly well better provide $15 an hour service. Nobody is going to pay double for a burger if the order is wrong and the fries are cold. Again.

Now THAT'S funny!

[PierzStyx]

Twice the woker's wages does not equal twice the price.

It means a larger increase though. Higher wages means higher costs to make up for percentages of profits being lost. Prices raise to make up for that profit loss.

[PierzStyx]

McDonalds provides absolutely nothing positive to our society.

They buy shit. They sell shit. They pay shit.

Their employees shouldn't strike. They should quit.

And if their employees added anything to society that could generate wealth and goods they could quit. But when you have no skills you end up working any job you can get. They can't quit because who would hire their unskilled asses? I know I wouldn't. Especially if I have to paid the unskilled labor the same as the skilled labor. At that point I'd choose someone with more skill, more experience, and more promise over former fast food jockeys any day.

[PierzStyx]

That's the thing though, people graduating college are applying to work at fast-food restaurants now. I'm 100% serious. It's not because they necessarily want to do it, but because that's the only industry they can seem to get their foot in the door.

How many people here on RPF can get somebody a job making $50K a year instantly? I doubt very many.

Apparently though, it did happen down in Louisiana in certain spots as well. Not sure if it happened in my state though. We don't eat out much.

College education does not equal experience, skill, or talent. In America we have a serious over specialization problem. According to Dr. Ruwart in "Healing Our World" the amount of people with degrees applying for jobs in 60% higher than the demand existing for those jobs.

Some problems I've observed with people who have went to higher schooling I've met who are working in low paying jobs are there because they majored in a niche job (not many calls for a poetry major), refuse to do what it takes to get jobs in their fields (serious entitlement attitudes out there), or refuse to move where they could fill a needed position in their field (CA is littered knee deep with these types.) Also they all seem to expect to start with $50K jobs, as if they deserve the same pay as someone with 30 years of experience as a starting wage and refuse to work for less. Consequently they lose job opurtunites and end up living at home flipping burgers because they exhausted all other choices.