Reason #79823813 why a private school is a better choice....

[Reason]

http://ttag.zippykidcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Screen-Shot-2013-08-23-at-9.59.45-AM.png (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/robert-farago/incendiary-image-of-the-day-arkansas-christian-academy-puts-spree-killers-on-notice-edition/)

[Neil Desmond]

I hope that this is a sign that people are finally starting to come to their friggin' senses. Here's a slogan I propose for advocating right to bear arms:


Anyone who is trying to grab your gun - is, in effect, trying to harm your children.

Thomas Massie introduced HR 133, a bill to repeal the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990.

http://www.tenthamendmentnh.org/?p=12116

Please support Thomas Massie & this bill by not only demanding that your congress critters get it passed ASAP, but also by demanding that all laws, acts, etc. that go against the right to keep and bear arms get repealed, laws get introduced that prevent the 2nd amendment from being infringed in any way (mandating the executive branch of the federal government to go after any states that do anything to infringe on the 2nd amendment, mandating the states to go after federal agencies that do anything to infringe on the 2nd amendment, etc.), or both!

[jbauer]

http://ttag.zippykidcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Screen-Shot-2013-08-23-at-9.59.45-AM.png (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/08/robert-farago/incendiary-image-of-the-day-arkansas-christian-academy-puts-spree-killers-on-notice-edition/)

Where did they get that sign?? I've been pushing to arm our children's teachers at private school. I sit on the board and we started the conversation after new town.

[helmuth_hubener]

My contrary point of view:

As a former inmate at a "school," I would be very unhappy seeing guns in the hands of teachers, security guards, and police officers at school. These people are evil, this system is evil. Just give them more power to lord it over the unarmed inmates? No way! No, thank you. That is not libertarian.

Private school is not much different. The private schools suffer from endemic and incurable copycat-ism. They just copy the gov't camps as much as possible. So would I want to attend a school camp, gov't or "private", with armed wardens?

No. No I would not.

Arm the students. Talk about arming the students. Then I can take you seriously. Further arming the wardens will just make things exponentially worse at these camps. The possibility of an outsider coming and attacking you at school is only a possibility, and a remote one. The threat of being pushed around and oppressed by thugs and unionized drooling morons armed to the teeth would be a clear and present and physical reality, every single day.

I'll take the crazy serial killer once every 100 billion school days over the power-mad certified indoctrination lord trolling the hallway multiple times a day, every single day, up and down, searching for any signs of disobedience. Or worse, non-conformity. "Is that a hat on your head, punk? Bang! Guess you didn't need that head, then, huh? Ha, ha!"

[helmuth_hubener]

Another way to say this: I look at the gun on that sign and see it pointed at me.

[belian78]

My contrary point of view:

As a former inmate at a "school," I would be very unhappy seeing guns in the hands of teachers, security guards, and police officers at school. These people are evil, this system is evil. Just give them more power to lord it over the unarmed inmates? No way! No, thank you. That is not libertarian.

Private school is not much different. The private schools suffer from endemic and incurable copycat-ism. They just copy the gov't camps as much as possible. So would I want to attend a school camp, gov't or "private", with armed wardens?

No. No I would not.

Arm the students. Talk about arming the students. Then I can take you seriously. Further arming the wardens will just make things exponentially worse at these camps. The possibility of an outsider coming and attacking you at school is only a possibility, and a remote one. The threat of being pushed around and oppressed by thugs and unionized drooling morons armed to the teeth would be a clear and present and physical reality, every single day.

I'll take the crazy serial killer once every 100 billion school days over the power-mad certified indoctrination lord trolling the hallway multiple times a day, every single day, up and down, searching for any signs of disobedience. Or worse, non-conformity. "Is that a hat on your head, punk? Bang! Guess you didn't need that head, then, huh? Ha, ha!"
I can't help but think you're missing the forest for the trees here.

[jbauer]

My contrary point of view:

As a former inmate at a "school," I would be very unhappy seeing guns in the hands of teachers, security guards, and police officers at school. These people are evil, this system is evil. Just give them more power to lord it over the unarmed inmates? No way! No, thank you. That is not libertarian.

Private school is not much different. The private schools suffer from endemic and incurable copycat-ism. They just copy the gov't camps as much as possible. So would I want to attend a school camp, gov't or "private", with armed wardens?

No. No I would not.

Arm the students. Talk about arming the students. Then I can take you seriously. Further arming the wardens will just make things exponentially worse at these camps. The possibility of an outsider coming and attacking you at school is only a possibility, and a remote one. The threat of being pushed around and oppressed by thugs and unionized drooling morons armed to the teeth would be a clear and present and physical reality, every single day.

I'll take the crazy serial killer once every 100 billion school days over the power-mad certified indoctrination lord trolling the hallway multiple times a day, every single day, up and down, searching for any signs of disobedience. Or worse, non-conformity. "Is that a hat on your head, punk? Bang! Guess you didn't need that head, then, huh? Ha, ha!"

Except its not hard to get onto the school board of a private school. If you want the job its yours to be had. I know each and every teacher/staff and would be comfortable with most of them carrying....the ones I would not would not carry if given the opportunity.

There's nothing libertarian about telling someone who can legally carry a weapon that they cannot in their own place of business.

[jbauer]

//

[helmuth_hubener]

I can't help but think you're missing the forest for the trees here. Which forest are you in? I think that if you were in the forest called "actually having to attend this school," you might not enjoy a unionized mob of Arkansas idiots who were too stupid to make it through anything but the School of Education at their community college authorized to discipline you, control you, and subdue you, and each one toting increasingly fatal, menacing, and militaristic hardware around to help them do so.

[Seraphim]

This is about PRIVATE schools. Not government schools.


My contrary point of view:

As a former inmate at a "school," I would be very unhappy seeing guns in the hands of teachers, security guards, and police officers at school. These people are evil, this system is evil. Just give them more power to lord it over the unarmed inmates? No way! No, thank you. That is not libertarian.

Private school is not much different. The private schools suffer from endemic and incurable copycat-ism. They just copy the gov't camps as much as possible. So would I want to attend a school camp, gov't or "private", with armed wardens?

No. No I would not.

Arm the students. Talk about arming the students. Then I can take you seriously. Further arming the wardens will just make things exponentially worse at these camps. The possibility of an outsider coming and attacking you at school is only a possibility, and a remote one. The threat of being pushed around and oppressed by thugs and unionized drooling morons armed to the teeth would be a clear and present and physical reality, every single day.

I'll take the crazy serial killer once every 100 billion school days over the power-mad certified indoctrination lord trolling the hallway multiple times a day, every single day, up and down, searching for any signs of disobedience. Or worse, non-conformity. "Is that a hat on your head, punk? Bang! Guess you didn't need that head, then, huh? Ha, ha!"

[belian78]

Which forest are you in? I think that if you were in the forest called "actually having to attend this school," you might not enjoy a unionized mob of Arkansas idiots who were too stupid to make it through anything but the School of Education at their community college authorized to discipline you, control you, and subdue you, and each one toting increasingly fatal, menacing, and militaristic hardware around to help them do so.

Man who run face first into tree, can't see for bark in his eyes.

-Me.

[jbauer]

Which forest are you in? I think that if you were in the forest called "actually having to attend this school," you might not enjoy a unionized mob of Arkansas idiots who were too stupid to make it through anything but the School of Education at their community college authorized to discipline you, control you, and subdue you, and each one toting increasingly fatal, menacing, and militaristic hardware around to help them do so.

READ the Article. It says nothing about forcing someone who doesn't want to carry to carry. It simply is allowing those who choose to do so, to do so. The sign is nothing more than advertising for those who feel their children are in danger in the public schools.

Do you think gun free zones are a good thing?

[FriedChicken]

I'll take the crazy serial killer once every 100 billion school days over the power-mad certified indoctrination lord trolling the hallway multiple times a day, every single day, up and down, searching for any signs of disobedience. Or worse, non-conformity. "Is that a hat on your head, punk? Bang! Guess you didn't need that head, then, huh? Ha, ha!"

wow. Just wow.
One of the many reasons I home school my kid is because of the behavior allowed in schools. I'm not in favor of the olden days of teacher being given the authority to physically punish students but I've gotta say that a lot of bad behavior goes uncorrected just because its easier not to correct it.

the way you talk its like you think schools are run with an iron fist where children aren't even allowed to use the restroom without kissing their leaders ring.

Also - I do disagree with the public school system. I don't think the government should be involved in education at all (not even regulations ideally) but I know some of the teachers. My mother in-law is actually a public school teacher (not in the union though) and cared more about her students than she did her own kids at times.
So your broad brush painting of these people as being evil is as incorrect as it is insulting.

[helmuth_hubener]

This is about PRIVATE schools. Not government schools. A private school trying to be, in large measure, like a gov't camp. Arkansas has tons of laws about running schools, the whole system is totally locked-dowen and statist, the "private" schools are just little carbon copies of the gov't ones, maybe printed on slightly different (religious) colored paper. Arkansas has strict truancy laws, made even stricter a couple years ago. A parent may homeschool, but if the parent decides not to, what can the child do about it?

So as a child, you are forced to go to this school, where sociopathic child-abusers can do whatever they want to you. Would it be better if many of them are toting around AK-47s? Or if they aren't? I vote "aren't."

[Kotin]

A private school trying to be, in large measure, like a gov't camp. Arkansas has tons of laws about running schools, the whole system is totally locked-dowen and statist, the "private" schools are just little carbon copies of the gov't ones, maybe printed on slightly different (religious) colored paper. Arkansas has strict truancy laws, made even stricter a couple years ago. A parent may homeschool, but if the parent decides not to, what can the child do about it?

So as a child, you are forced to go to this school, where sociopathic child-abusers can do whatever they want to you. Would it be better if many of them are toting around AK-47s? Or if they aren't? I vote "aren't."


lol wut??


who said anything about ak47's?? having a concealed handgun on each teacher and staff member is a good idea. even if government schooling is a bad one.

[FriedChicken]

A private school trying to be, in large measure, like a gov't camp. Arkansas has tons of laws about running schools, the whole system is totally locked-dowen and statist, the "private" schools are just little carbon copies of the gov't ones, maybe printed on slightly different (religious) colored paper. Arkansas has strict truancy laws, made even stricter a couple years ago. A parent may homeschool, but if the parent decides not to, what can the child do about it?

So as a child, you are forced to go to this school, where sociopathic child-abusers can do whatever they want to you. Would it be better if many of them are toting around AK-47s? Or if they aren't? I vote "aren't."

If an adult is legally able to carry a concealed firearm in their state do they have the right to carry one into a public school?
Yes or No.

I understand that you consider all school teachers to be "sociopathic child-abusers" but are you advocating that concealed carry in a school should be outlawed?
And if you are - at what level? Local, state or federal?

[helmuth_hubener]

who said anything about ak47's?? having a concealed handgun on each teacher and staff member is a good idea.A handgun will kill you just as dead as a long gun, last I checked. So what is the distinction, Kotin? I don't see it.

Besides, the figure on the sign has a long gun. So my mention of AK-47s as one possible armament they'd outfit themselves with seems totally reasonable.

[Rudeman]

I'm guessing this is an Arkansas thing because my school was nothing like what you described.

[helmuth_hubener]

If an adult is legally able to carry a concealed firearm in their state do they have the right to carry one into a public school?
Yes or No. Legally able? What does that mean? You are going to qualify a "right" with "legally able"? Obviously the correct answer to your question, within the parameters expressed by it, is that every adult who is legally able to carry a firearm into a public school has the right to carry a firearm into a public school.

In other words: whatever the state says. They decide what rights you have. I don't know what the word "right" even means in that case, but that is the answer to your question, according to the assumptions built into the question.

Since you asked for a Yes or No, though, if you're just asking me if I think people have such a right, the answer is No. For one: "public schools" are outside of natural law and should not even exist, and so natural law has nothing clear to say in regards to how one can and cannot associate with it. For two: no "right to carry" exists, period, anywhere, except when you are occupying property which you yourself own. You have no right to carry anywhere else.


I understand that you consider all school teachers to be "sociopathic child-abusers" but are you advocating that concealed carry in a school should be outlawed?
And if you are - at what level? Local, state or federal? Riddle me this: would you want to attend an indoctrination camp every day where everyone in charge could carry weapons... and you couldn't?

[FriedChicken]

Legally able? What does that mean? You are going to qualify a "right" with "legally able"? Obviously the correct answer to your question, within the parameters expressed by it, is that every adult who is legally able to carry a firearm into a public school has the right to carry a firearm into a public school.

In other words: whatever the state says. They decide what rights you have. I don't know what the word "right" even means in that case, but that is the answer to your question, according to the assumptions built into the question.

Since you asked for a Yes or No, though, if you're just asking me if I think people have such a right, the answer is No. For one: "public schools" are outside of natural law and should not even exist, and so natural law has nothing clear to say in regards to how one can and cannot associate with it. For two: no "right to carry" exists, period, anywhere, except when you are occupying property which you yourself own. You have no right to carry anywhere else.

I didn't know "legally able" had to be defined ... it means you won't be breaking a law by doing so. Yeah, I believe in the right to carry but my state does not and has passed laws that infringe on that right by requiring me to get a permit to carry.

A lot of things exist that shouldn't - you're going to use that as a gauge to redefine people's rights while in those places? [public schools shouldn't even exist so gun rights shouldn't exist while inside them?] Sounds like a terrible idea.



Riddle me this: would you want to attend an indoctrination camp every day where everyone in charge could carry weapons... and you couldn't?

I think schools have better intentions than you realize. They're definitely used to indoctrinate on some levels but the vast vast vast majority of people working there aren't prison guards. They're well intended good people for the most part and they honestly care about their students.

If schools were really the way you've described them than I would agree that armed teachers would be bad.

But on the gun rights issue alone I'd advocate that teachers should be permitted to if they choose and I'm pretty comfortable with that idea knowing that most teachers are good people - even if perhaps misguided on the governments appropriate role in education.

Now, I would be a little nervous if the students were all carrying guns. I don't think a massacre would necessarily happen (when it otherwise wouldn't have) because rules don't stop spree killers - but I'd expect to hear about tragic accidents occurring as a result of someone being irresponsible with their firearm.

I disagree with you that the teachers would use their weapons on the students.

[helmuth_hubener]

I didn't know "legally able" had to be defined ... it means you won't be breaking a law by doing so. Yeah, I believe in the right to carry but my state does not and has passed laws that infringe on that right by requiring me to get a permit to carry.

A lot of things exist that shouldn't - you're going to use that as a gauge to redefine people's rights while in those places? [public schools shouldn't even exist so gun rights shouldn't exist while inside them?] Sounds like a terrible idea. Here you do not disagree with anything I said in response to your question. This is reasonable of you to not disagree with correct statements.



They're well intended good people for the most part and they honestly care about their students. The same is true of prison guards.

Or is it?

Isn't it?

What do you have against prison guards, FriedChicken? My dear sweet mother is a prison guard, how dare you, blah, blah, blah!

"We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." - a prophet of God

Teachers have far too much and too unilateral of authority over their child wards. This power corrupts them. Thus, "good people" who "care about kids" become agents of evil. It's all sweetness and butterflies unless some kid refuses to go along with them. I was that kid. Have you ever read the Harry Potter books?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091025060913/harrypotter/images/thumb/f/f9/Dolores_Umbridge_%28Promo_still_from_HP5_movie%29_ 10-15-2009.jpg/382px-Dolores_Umbridge_%28Promo_still_from_HP5_movie%29_ 10-15-2009.jpg

[helmuth_hubener]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/08/daisy-luther/student-or-slave%E2%80%A8/

A couple of days ago, I read this headline by Heather Callaghan from Activist Post to my daughter:

School Pressured to Stop Making Kids Kneel Before the Principal

Imagine my shock when she told me, “We have to do that. It makes me feel weird.”

I quizzed her further. Apparently, each time the teacher blows the whistle at the end of recess, the students are all supposed to face that teacher and kneel on the ground. She told me that the first time it happened, the other kids were whispering to her, “Get down, Rosie, you have to kneel.”

Being the new kid, she did what the other kids did, but it didn’t feel right to her.

I asked her how it made her feel.

“Like I’m worthless. Like the teachers are better than me. I feel sort of embarrassed inside, but I didn’t say anything because it doesn’t seem to bother the other kids.”

The official response from the schools in San Bernadino, California was that the policy was there to maintain order and keep the children safe – they called it “positive behavior intervention.”

See how much teachers care about students? Good thing these kids have teachers to care about them all the time and never stop. Teachers love showing kids how much they care!





Or else.

[madengr]

If an adult is legally able to carry a concealed firearm in their state do they have the right to carry one into a public school?
Yes or No.


The federal GFSZA exempts those with a state handgun license (i.e. CCW), so if there is no state law, then it is legal to carry in a school. Here in KS it is legal to CCW in a school; the most they can do is arrest you for trespassing if you refuse to leave.