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Snew
08-25-2013, 03:07 PM
http://www.wral.com/nonprofit-says-it-was-threatened-with-arrest-for-feeding-raleigh-homeless/12815894/


"This morning we showed up at Moore Square at 9:00 a.m., just like we have done virtually every Saturday and Sunday for the last six years," the ministry's pastor and director, Rev. Hugh Hollowell, wrote in a blog post (http://lovewins.info/2013/08/feeding-homeless-apparently-illegal-in-raleigh-nc/). "Today, officers from Raleigh Police Department prevented us from doing our work, for the first time ever. An officer said, quite bluntly, that if we attempted to distribute food, we would be arrested."

Todd
08-26-2013, 09:09 AM
Let's put this in a historical Christian perspective.

Hey Jesus.....sorry about this but you and your 12 buddies are going to have to cease and desist handing out all that bread and fish because it doesn't meet the RHFO (Roman Health and Food Organization) quality and inspection standards. You're hands and clothes are dirty and you have not met departmental santitation codes........ Oh and you are also using a non government approved basket to deliver said food. Please comply or you will be under arrest.

shane77m
08-26-2013, 09:20 AM
If they believe they are doing what God wants them to do then they should thumb their noses at the authorities and feed the people anyways.

jbauer
08-26-2013, 09:22 AM
If they believe they are doing what God wants them to do then they should thumb their noses at the authorities and feed the people anyways.

So they get closed down, sued and get their 501c3 taken away?

shane77m
08-26-2013, 09:25 AM
So they get closed down, sued and get their 501c3 taken away?

I don't remember Jesus or any of the Apostles worrying about losing their tax exempt status.

kathy88
08-26-2013, 09:37 AM
The comments defending this are making me suicidal. Here's a gem...

These non-profit groups have turned 'good deeds' into a competition. On any given Saturday (a great photo-op day) there could be 6-7 groups out there, or NONE. The groups compete to see who can outdo each other, some bring simple sandwiches, some entire Bojangles meals. One group actually gave out $10 gift cards to a restaurant in WAKE FOREST. How is a homeless person supposed to GET THERE? Most Saturdays the number of volunteers outnumber the homeless! If these groups REALLY want to help, and not just get free PR for their group, go over 2-3 blocks to the park across from the homeless shelter and feed the hungry, or go to Durham, or self-coordinate so too many groups are not handing out food (which most gets tossed away) at the same time, or try a different day. Most of these groups are only interested in PR to increase their numbers and funding… not feeding the hungry. If they were REALLY concerned, they would work with other groups or the City Council. Matthew 6:4

GunnyFreedom
08-26-2013, 09:38 AM
Also Fedbooked:


I never thought that this lunacy that has been infecting the rest of the US would come here. The worse the economy gets, the more people go hungry, and then homeless. If we are compassionate as Christ commanded and feed them, we can go to jail. Thanks, Raleigh. Are we fed-up with big-government nanny-stateism yet?

https://www.facebook.com/glenbradley/posts/10151885844093274

And then the comment:


This right here is one of the major reasons we need to repeal the Johnson Amendment. The Johnson Amendment from...1956?....allows the government to control what church organizations can and cannot do. It flies directly in the face of the 1st Amendment, and until we address the underlying issue, the Johnson Amendment, this kind of thing will continue.

Please support Walter Jones (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Walter-Jones/15083070102) effort to repeal the Johnson Amendment -- not only by contacting Congress, but also let the North Carolina General Assembly know that we would like to see a resolution supporting the repeal of the Johnson Amendment in the short session.

jbauer
08-26-2013, 09:46 AM
I don't remember Jesus or any of the Apostles worrying about losing their tax exempt status.

You're right, they just hung his ass up on a tree after they tortured him. Much more appropriate than losing tax exempt status. With the way we're training our police force maybe crucifixion is back on the table as an appropriate punishment.

WM_in_MO
08-26-2013, 09:49 AM
So they get closed down, sued and get their 501c3 taken away?
Take it to court and make the state prove how corrupt it is.

Acala
08-26-2013, 10:27 AM
Just to give the other side of the issue . . .

This kind of enforcement action is always complaint driven. Feeding operations obviously draw the homeless to the specific area. Let's be honest here. We are all above political correctness, right? Many homeless people are insane. Many homeless people are filthy. Many of the homeless are drug addicts. Some homeless people are criminals on the lam. Many homeless people make a huge mess wherever they are hanging out. Most of the homeless are homeless because they have destroyed their social support structures through years of abuse. The idea that the only difference between you and them is one bad break is mostly myth. I am willing to bet there is not a single person reading this that would be out on the street if they lost their income right now. You have family and friends that would take you in before allowing you to live in a cardboard box. You would have to really work at it to have everyone abandon you. The homeless, to the extent they are not homeless by choice, have typically worked at alienating everyone around them. In short, they are often not the best neighbors or playmates for your children.

For the above reasons, very FEW homeowners want large numbers of homeless people hanging around their neighborhood. So they complain. They complain about litter. They complain about public urination and defecation. They complain that drawing dozens of homeless people into a park, where they typically continue to linger long after, makes the parks unusable for other people, particularly children. These are legitimate complaints.

The homeless deserve compassion. But the people exercising compassion in this case are externalizing some of the cost to the public and the neighbors.

So this is just another case of "public" ownership of resources leading to conflicts of use.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
08-26-2013, 10:50 AM
You're right, they just hung his ass up on a tree after they tortured him. Much more appropriate than losing tax exempt status. With the way we're training our police force maybe crucifixion is back on the table as an appropriate punishment.


Stop taking responsibility for that.

HOLLYWOOD
08-26-2013, 10:50 AM
"Land of the Free!" ... HAH!

Government has turned Americans, their morals and good wills, into a mindless shithole dictator state.

Paulbot99
08-26-2013, 11:08 AM
Maybe they were making government welfare look bad in comparison?

GunnyFreedom
08-26-2013, 11:10 AM
Just to give the other side of the issue . . .

This kind of enforcement action is always complaint driven. Feeding operations obviously draw the homeless to the specific area. Let's be honest here. We are all above political correctness, right? Many homeless people are insane. Many homeless people are filthy. Many of the homeless are drug addicts. Some homeless people are criminals on the lam. Many homeless people make a huge mess wherever they are hanging out. Most of the homeless are homeless because they have destroyed their social support structures through years of abuse. The idea that the only difference between you and them is one bad break is mostly myth. I am willing to bet there is not a single person reading this that would be out on the street if they lost their income right now. You have family and friends that would take you in before allowing you to live in a cardboard box. You would have to really work at it to have everyone abandon you. The homeless, to the extent they are not homeless by choice, have typically worked at alienating everyone around them. In short, they are often not the best neighbors or playmates for your children.

For the above reasons, very FEW homeowners want large numbers of homeless people hanging around their neighborhood. So they complain. They complain about litter. They complain about public urination and defecation. They complain that drawing dozens of homeless people into a park, where they typically continue to linger long after, makes the parks unusable for other people, particularly children. These are legitimate complaints.

The homeless deserve compassion. But the people exercising compassion in this case are externalizing some of the cost to the public and the neighbors.

So this is just another case of "public" ownership of resources leading to conflicts of use.

If it helps, there is no residential property within 4 blocks in any direction from Moore Square.

oyarde
08-26-2013, 11:11 AM
If the church wants to feed them they should. Govt does not like competition.I hope the parents of those cops are proud of them.Douchebaggery galore.

Alex Libman
08-26-2013, 11:20 AM
This is terrible! :mad::(:mad::confused::mad::(:mad:

Here at Tent City of Lakewood, NJ (http://tentcitynj.org), we are very concerned about this...

Homeless harassment laws and other government harassment of the poor need to be resisted through civil disobedience on a massive scale!

(See other thread for more about my activism.) (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?417696-The-Libertarian-Solution-To-End-Homelessness)

Acala
08-26-2013, 11:37 AM
If it helps, there is no residential property within 4 blocks in any direction from Moore Square.

People still want to use the park for their own purposes that may not be compatible (at least in their mind) with hordes of homeless people lotering about. It is classic conflict of uses of a public resource. And those problems can never be fully resolved. They just get shuffled back and forth with the political process.

Of course government exacerbates the problem of the homeless in countless ways - the drug war, codes that prevent ultra-low income housing, the whole destruction of the economy, etc.

But people insist on having publicly-owned resources and then fight each other over their uses.

BarryDonegan
08-26-2013, 01:21 PM
I wrote a blog about this one today

http://silverunderground.com/2013/08/nc-church-group-threatened-with-arrest-for-feeding-the-homeless/

jbauer
08-26-2013, 01:34 PM
People still want to use the park for their own purposes that may not be compatible (at least in their mind) with hordes of homeless people lotering about. It is classic conflict of uses of a public resource. And those problems can never be fully resolved. They just get shuffled back and forth with the political process.

Of course government exacerbates the problem of the homeless in countless ways - the drug war, codes that prevent ultra-low income housing, the whole destruction of the economy, etc.

But people insist on having publicly-owned resources and then fight each other over their uses.

So if the homeless are citizens don't they have a right to be in the park? Not that I disagree with you. Its just funny how people think.

Dr.3D
08-26-2013, 01:43 PM
So if the homeless are citizens don't they have a right to be in the park? Not that I disagree with you. Its just funny how people think.
Seems they would have a darned good reason to be in the park too. Maybe those who are better off should think about that.

Lucille
08-26-2013, 01:44 PM
Probably because it doesn't help JP Morgan (http://www.republicreport.org/2012/how-big-corporations-cash-in-on-food-assistance-programs/).

http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/26/north-carolina-church-members-threatened


"An officer said, quite bluntly, that if we attempted to distribute food, we would be arrested," the Rev. Hugh Hollowell wrote on the group's website. "We asked the officers for permission to disperse the biscuits to the over 70 people who had lined up, waiting to eat. They said no. I had to face those who were waiting and tell them that I could not feed them, or I would be arrested."


There’s an ordinance in Raleigh that prohibits distributing food in public parks. The church knew that, so they were actually on the sidewalk next to the park, but that apparently wasn’t enough for the police. The reverend wrote that the police refused to explain what ordinance they were actually violating. They were also told they needed a permit to use the park, which would cost $800 a day.

Acala
08-26-2013, 01:51 PM
So if the homeless are citizens don't they have a right to be in the park? Not that I disagree with you. Its just funny how people think.

Parks can have numerous limitations: hours of operation, permit requirements for use of facilities, restictions on animals, no bonfires, etc. Of course the restriction at issue here is not against a particular type of person, but against a specific type of conduct - handing out food.

Danke
08-26-2013, 02:01 PM
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

They should be teaching them how to rob local business, particularly grocery stores, or banks.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
08-27-2013, 03:23 PM
So if the homeless are citizens don't they have a right to be in the park?


Not only do they have a right to be there, they're the people who need it the most.

Dr.3D
08-27-2013, 03:30 PM
Not only do they have a right to be there, they're the people who need it the most.
LOL
That's pretty much what I said here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?425354-Nonprofit-threatened-with-arrest-for-feeding-homeless&p=5195784&viewfull=1#post5195784)

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
08-27-2013, 03:51 PM
LOL
That's pretty much what I said here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?425354-Nonprofit-threatened-with-arrest-for-feeding-homeless&p=5195784&viewfull=1#post5195784)


Here is something else interesting. I went into a grocery store the other day, and there were high school cheerleaders at both entrances, begging for money.

I saw their set up, and asked if they were selling anything. Answer... no. They were just taking donations so they could travel somewhere to do something.

I let my little girl donate to them, after she asked why they needed donations and what for, and her approving of the answer.

Paulbot99
08-27-2013, 07:19 PM
Do not try to show people that there are other people besides the State that help the poor without making them poor in the first place by playing with the economy.

aGameOfThrones
08-27-2013, 08:12 PM
Just to give the other side of the issue . . .

This kind of enforcement action is always complaint driven. Feeding operations obviously draw the homeless to the specific area. Let's be honest here. We are all above political correctness, right? Many homeless people are insane. Many homeless people are filthy. Many of the homeless are drug addicts. Some homeless people are criminals on the lam. Many homeless people make a huge mess wherever they are hanging out. Most of the homeless are homeless because they have destroyed their social support structures through years of abuse. The idea that the only difference between you and them is one bad break is mostly myth. I am willing to bet there is not a single person reading this that would be out on the street if they lost their income right now. You have family and friends that would take you in before allowing you to live in a cardboard box. You would have to really work at it to have everyone abandon you. The homeless, to the extent they are not homeless by choice, have typically worked at alienating everyone around them. In short, they are often not the best neighbors or playmates for your children.

For the above reasons, very FEW homeowners want large numbers of homeless people hanging around their neighborhood. So they complain. They complain about litter. They complain about public urination and defecation. They complain that drawing dozens of homeless people into a park, where they typically continue to linger long after, makes the parks unusable for other people, particularly children. These are legitimate complaints.

The homeless deserve compassion. But the people exercising compassion in this case are externalizing some of the cost to the public and the neighbors.

So this is just another case of "public" ownership of resources leading to conflicts of use.

I think once you feed them you should adopt them. You know, like cats and dogs.

GunnyFreedom
08-27-2013, 08:39 PM
People still want to use the park for their own purposes that may not be compatible (at least in their mind) with hordes of homeless people lotering about. It is classic conflict of uses of a public resource. And those problems can never be fully resolved. They just get shuffled back and forth with the political process.

Of course government exacerbates the problem of the homeless in countless ways - the drug war, codes that prevent ultra-low income housing, the whole destruction of the economy, etc.

But people insist on having publicly-owned resources and then fight each other over their uses.

It's in a downtown area with only commercial and government enterprise. The whole place shuts down for the weekend, and the feeding only happened on Saturdays and Sundays. There was basically nobody around to annoy.