Nidal Hasan found guilty in Ft. Hood shooting

[willwash]

Took almost 4 years, but there it is:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57599898/nidal-hasan-convicted-of-murder-in-fort-hood-shootings-eligible-for-death-penalty/

[eduardo89]

Good. Hope he gets hanged.

[A Son of Liberty]

Blowback.

[pcosmar]

did anyone expect otherwise?

[BlackTerrel]

Blowback.

For what? Wasn't he American?

[eduardo89]

For what? Wasn't he American?

He's a Muslim, so obviously him murdering a dozen people in cold blood is the government's fault.

[amy31416]

Why do these cases take so long?

[kcchiefs6465]

Are you kidding me? His stated motive was that he was killing Americans here who would be going over to Afghanistan to kill Afghanis. They wouldn't let him make the case that the war was illegal and that he was acting in removed self-defense. That he was killing soldiers here, so that civilians in Afghanistan would be spared.

FWIW, he also wishes to be hanged... or at least executed. They'll probably sentence him to life for that reason.

[presence]

He's a Muslim, so obviously him murdering a dozen people in cold blood is the government's fault.

he said, "Evidence will clearly show that I am the shooter and the dead bodies will show that war is an ugly thing."

"There was adequate provocation — that these were deploying soldiers that were going to engage in an illegal war."

[presence]

Why do these cases take so long?

execution will take direct presidential orders

[enhanced_deficit]

Good. Hope he gets hanged.

Chances of that happening are between none and none due to multiple factors.

US military has not executed its own soldier for over half a century and seems not interestd in changing that tradition looking at various recent military trials.

He is a semite minority with family roots from Israeli occupied territories.

Recent precedents like this news today from other thread where even murder of children gets just life in prison:


US Soldier Robert Bales Sentenced To Life In Prison Without Parole ... (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/23/robert-bales-life-sentence_n_3805952.html)
Huffington Post-8 hours ago
"We wanted this murderer to be executed," said Hajji Mohammad Wazir, who lost 11 family members in the attack by Staff Sgt. Robert Bales.

He avoided death penalty apparently because of a deal as he had admitted murdering 16 Afghan civilians, mostly children and women:

6/5: Staff Sgt. Robert Bales admits to killing 16 Afghans; Story of ... (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50148350n)
CBS News video: 6/5: Staff Sgt. Robert Bales admits to killing 16 Afghans; Story of doctor who tried to save RFK - Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales ...

It is busy season for military courts.

Robert Bales, Nidal Malik Hasan, Manning: A busy week for military ... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/robert-bales-nidal-malik-hasan-manning-a-busy-week-for-military-justice/2013/08/23/098a3024-0c27-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html)
Washington Post-1 hour ago
Also Friday, a jury sentenced Bales to life in prison without a chance of parole ... Bales said he hoped his words would be translated for the nine ...


No trial announced for neocons disgraced puppet and suspected war criminal Obama despite his drone killing of many times more innocent children,women,civilians.


Prediction, he will get life in prison like Bales.

[Weston White]

Good. Hope he gets hanged.

Why? He was very likely left out as a patsy in yet another governmental spook operation/drill intended to further elicit domestic terriorism by way of PRS dogma; all nicely packaged in a CIA-NSA PSYOP program.

So yea, let us next go ahead and hang James Holmes. I mean we are already charging him double counts of homicide for each death and rolling him into the courtroom looking like Charles Manson and chaining him to the floor so why the hell not right?

[kcchiefs6465]

execution will take direct presidential orders
Don't all 13 of the jury have to recommend a death penalty as well?

I overheard something on the radio that if a juror doesn't agree to the death penalty it could not be given.

[fr33]

Are you kidding me? His stated motive was that he was killing Americans here who would be going over to Afghanistan to kill Afghanis. They wouldn't let him make the case that the war was illegal and that he was acting in removed self-defense. That he was killing soldiers here, so that civilians in Afghanistan would be spared.

FWIW, he also wishes to be hanged... or at least executed. They'll probably sentence him to life for that reason.

No. I'm not going there. I hate wars and mercenaries as well but if one is going to start fighting back, they should not start with taking out the grunts. He likely joined up for the same reason the people he killed did. If he wants to claim a moral high ground he should have aimed higher.

[kcchiefs6465]

No. I'm not going there. I hate wars and mercenaries as well but if one is going to start fighting back, they should not start with taking out the grunts. He likely joined up for the same reason the people he killed did. If he wants to claim a moral high ground he should have aimed higher.
I wasn't justifying or attempting to justify his actions. I was saying what his defense of his actions was for the people who are astounded or seemingly insulted at the claim that this is an example of blowback.

It very much is blowback from our war in Afghanistan.

[Pericles]

Why do these cases take so long?

This has been a strange one. Normally, an Article 32 investigative officer would have been appointed within 30 days (equivalent to a civilian grand jury). Probably would have taken me about 6 weeks to get the witness statements and write up findings and conclusion and recommend general court martial. Take another 45 days to get that underway. One factor leading to additional time was the time needed for the accused to recover so that charges could be read - you are not accused of a violation of the UCMJ until your commander reads the charges to you ....

[presence]

Don't all 13 of the jury have to recommend a death penalty as well?

I overheard something on the radio that if a juror doesn't agree to the death penalty it could not be given.

Yes. You need all jurors on board. You need POTUS to give a go ahead... and you need about a decade of appeals process, which begins immediately as a matter of statute upon DP sentencing.

[A Son of Liberty]

For what? Wasn't he American?

Why didn't Nadal Hassan murder a bunch of Canadian soldiers?

[Pericles]

Don't all 13 of the jury have to recommend a death penalty as well?

I overheard something on the radio that if a juror doesn't agree to the death penalty it could not be given.

Correct - in a general court martial, all members must agree with a death sentence, other that capital cases, the two thirds rule applies.

[specsaregood]

Why? He was very likely left out as a patsy in yet another governmental spook operation
I'm interested in what your personal definition of "likely" is.

[BlackTerrel]

Are you kidding me? His stated motive was that he was killing Americans here who would be going over to Afghanistan to kill Afghanis. They wouldn't let him make the case that the war was illegal and that he was acting in removed self-defense. That he was killing soldiers here, so that civilians in Afghanistan would be spared.

FWIW, he also wishes to be hanged... or at least executed. They'll probably sentence him to life for that reason.

He's an American. His only association with those in Afghanistan is religion.

If I killed American soldiers when we intervened in Serbia would that be blowback also?

[A Son of Liberty]

He's an American. His only association with those in Afghanistan is religion.

If I killed American soldiers when we intervened in Serbia would that be blowback also?

That would depend on whether you openly stated that your act was retribution and/or pre-emption for what the the US military was doing in Serbia.

[Christian Liberty]

.....

[eduardo89]

I'm almost tempted to call this heroic... please somebody talk me out of it...

If you think murdering anyone, including a pregnant woman pleading for her baby's life, is heroic then you are a sick piece of shit and definitely not a Christian.

[Christian Liberty]

If you think murdering anyone, including a pregnant woman pleading for her baby's life, is heroic then you are a sick piece of shit and definitely not a Christian.

He killed a pregnant woman? I thought he killed a bunch of soldiers who were about to deploy to Afghanistan.

That said, I was definitely playing devil's advocate with that post.

[LibertyEagle]

He killed a pregnant woman? I thought he killed a bunch of soldiers who were about to deploy to Afghanistan.

That said, I was definitely playing devil's advocate with that post.

No you weren't and your post was sick!!

[eduardo89]

He killed a pregnant woman? I thought he killed a bunch of soldiers who were about to deploy to Afghanistan.

Yes, he shot a Francheska Velez who was 21 years old at the time,who then pleaded for the life of baby and he shot her again, killing her.


That said, I was definitely playing devil's advocate with that post.

That's not how it reads. It reads like you wanting to praise a murderer and then asking people to convince you otherwise, because you know it's wrong and absolutely despicable.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm almost tempted to call this heroic... please somebody talk me out of it...
No. Shooting unsuspecting, unarmed, men and women is not remotely close to heroic.

It was, however, preventable and if our foreign policy is not changed there will be more instances of people retaliating against the US and its soldiers.

It happens biweekly in Afghanistan. That is, an Afghan police opens fire on their trainers/American counterparts. It is a tragedy and not something to be glamorized. People need to come to their goddamn senses and end this nonsense.

[Christian Liberty]

No you weren't and your post was sick!!

Yes, I was.

Even if his motivation was genuinely to stop them from going over to murder people in Afghanistan, all it would accomplish is to kill some of the grunts. The war would still go on, and the action would have killed people who were likely ignorant of what they were doing in the first place. Its an absolutely terrible way of stopping the deployment.

That said, I have a hard time feeling bad for the people who were going to go over and commit murder. Once they did deploy, Afghans would likely have tried to kill them, and they would have been acted purely defensively in doing so.

Is stopping them preemptively actually able to be qualified as "Murder"?

We're conditioned not to think that way because they're "Our soldiers" but if you actually think it through...

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, I was.

Even if his motivation was genuinely to stop them from going over to murder people in Afghanistan, all it would accomplish is to kill some of the grunts. The war would still go on, and the action would have killed people who were likely ignorant of what they were doing in the first place. Its an absolutely terrible way of stopping the deployment.

That said, I have a hard time feeling bad for the people who were going to go over and commit murder. Once they did deploy, Afghans would likely have tried to kill them, and they would have been acted purely defensively in doing so.

Is stopping them preemptively actually able to be qualified as "Murder"?

We're conditioned not to think that way because they're "Our soldiers" but if you actually think it through...

Yes, you did, and you just proved it above.

[eduardo89]

Is stopping them preemptively actually able to be qualified as "Murder"?

It most certainly is. How do you know any of them would have murdered anyone over there? And most were coming back from deployment, like the pregnant woman who was a bomb defuser.

There is absolutely no justification for killing unarmed people not actively engaged in violent acts, regardless of their occupation.

[Christian Liberty]

Yes, he shot a Francheska Valdez who was 21 years old at the time,who then pleaded for the life of baby and he shot her again, killing her.


That is indeed despicable.





That's not how it reads. It reads like you wanting to praise a murderer and then asking people to convince you otherwise, because you know it's wrong and absolutely despicable.


I'm playing devil's advocate because, as I mentioned, we're conditioned to think that they are "Our troops" and so are automatically worthy of respect. The reality is that they are being deployed to Afghanistan to commit murder. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I ultimately pretty much agree with what Fr33 said. I would also say that killing someone because of what they might do in the future is completely wrong and unlibertarian.

No. Shooting unsuspecting, unarmed, men and women is not remotely close to heroic.

It was, however, preventable and if our foreign policy is not changed there will be more instances of people retaliating against the US and its soldiers.

It happens biweekly in Afghanistan. That is, an Afghan police opens fire on their trainers/American counterparts. It is a tragedy and not something to be glamorized. People need to come to their goddamn senses and end this nonsense.

They're defending their country from American invasion.

[Christian Liberty]

It most certainly is. How do you know any of them would have murdered anyone over there? And most were coming back from deployment, like the pregnant woman who was a bomb defuser.

There is absolutely no justification for killing unarmed people not actively engaged in violent acts, regardless of their occupation.

I agree with this.

[BlackTerrel]

That would depend on whether you openly stated that your act was retribution and/or pre-emption for what the the US military was doing in Serbia.

So whatever the murderer says goes.

I've seen tweets on RPF of supposed black people saying they are going to kill random white people due to the Trayvon Martin verdict.

If this were to happen this would be A) blowback or B) racist psychopaths

My tendency would be B.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen someone make blowback argument except in case where murderer was Muslim.

[Christian Liberty]

So whatever the murderer says goes.

I've seen tweets on RPF of supposed black people saying they are going to kill random white people due to the Trayvon Martin verdict.

If this were to happen this would be A) blowback or B) racist psychopaths

My tendency would be B.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen someone make blowback argument except in case where murderer was Muslim.

The difference is that acquitting George Zimmerman wasn't an immoral act at all. A defender of US foreign policy wouldn't find the "blowback" reasoning valid either.

[enhanced_deficit]

If you think murdering anyone, including a pregnant woman pleading for her baby's life, is heroic then you are a sick piece of shit and definitely not a Christian.

Incidentally, has SWC Obama droned any pregnant women or born/unborn children? if so, what is your opinion about him?
Don't be shy, express your view frankly.

Nudging discussion from lower to mid level pawns.

[eduardo89]

They're defending their country from American invasion.

Hasan is not Afghan or Iraqi, so how is killing unarmed Americans defending his homeland?

[Christian Liberty]

Incidentally, has SWC Obama droned any pregnant women or born/unborn children? if so, what is your opinion about him?
Don't be shy, express your view frankly.

That's the thing, we're conditioned to think that its somehow less repugnant when "we" do it. Its not.

[eduardo89]

Incidentally, has SWC Obama droned any pregnant women or born/unborn children? if so, what is your opinion about him?
Don't be shy, express your view frankly.

Obama is fundamentally anti-life and does not follow the Just War doctrine. I don't see how that at all has any connection with whether Hasan's actions are moral or not.

[Christian Liberty]

Hasan is not Afghan or Iraqi, so how is killing unarmed Americans defending his homeland?

I wasn't talking about Hasan. Read what I said.

[Christian Liberty]

Obama is fundamentally anti-life and does not follow the Just War doctrine. I don't see how that at all has any connection with whether Hasan's actions are moral or not.

It means that Obama deserves execution, which unfortunately, is impossible.

[kcchiefs6465]

They're defending their country from American invasion.
Who is? Nidal Hassan?

You seem incapable of recanting your earlier post.

My first post in this thread was not to attempt to justify his actions as they are unjustifiable. It was to recognize what caused this tragedy and attempt to sway opinion of those who do not see this as blowback from our foreign policy. There will be more cases of this so long as we continue down this path. Instead of offending or disgusting virtually everyone, why don't you suggest solutions to end these ongoing tragedies?

[enhanced_deficit]

Obama is fundamentally anti-life and does not follow the Just War doctrine. I don't see how that at all has any connection with whether Hasan's actions are moral or not.

How is two different people (albiet of different ranks in force command) killing innocent people for their agenda not related?
So let me ask , do you see both/either one of them as "sick piece of shit', term you just used compassionately about a member here in a qualified manner?

[kcchiefs6465]

So whatever the murderer says goes.

I've seen tweets on RPF of supposed black people saying they are going to kill random white people due to the Trayvon Martin verdict.

If this were to happen this would be A) blowback or B) racist psychopaths

My tendency would be B.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen someone make blowback argument except in case where murderer was Muslim.
Nidal Hassan was listening to Al Awlaki and felt strongly about what was going on in the Middle East. He stated the motivations for his shooting rampage. It is blowback.

You are obsessed with race in an unhealthy manner. It is your identity, apparently. It's getting old.

[eduardo89]

How is two different people (albiet of different ranks in force command) killing innocent people for their agenda not related?

How does Obama doing immoral things have any impact on the morality of Hasan killing unarmed people, including a pregnant woman?


So let me ask , do you see both/either one of them as "sick piece of shit', term you just used compassionately about a member here in a qualified manner?

Obama is a sick piece of shit.
Hasan is a sick piece of shit.
Both deserve the death penalty.

Anyone defending Hasan's actions or praising them as in any way heroic or justified is also a sick piece of shit.

[eduardo89]

Nidal Hassan was listening to Al Awlaki and felt strongly about what was going on in the Middle East. He stated the motivations for his shooting rampage. It is blowback.

You are obsessed with race in an unhealthy manner. It is your identity, apparently. It's getting old.

Blowback or not, it is morally unjustifiable.

[enhanced_deficit]

Hasan is not Afghan or Iraqi, so how is killing unarmed Americans defending his homeland?

He is a semite with family roots in Israeli occupied Palwstinian territories. He apparently linked attacks on Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans in same string.
OBL's letter had something similar but Palestine is generally a common motovation connection to most midesat rooted attacks on Amercans lately if not all.

If he got more sever punishment than Sgt Bales who just got convicted of killing children and women, ADL/CAIR and other semitic groups will be screaming "anti-semitism" , "discrimination" etc. That is one of the various reasons it will not happen.

[Christian Liberty]

How is two different people (albiet of different ranks in force command) killing innocent people for their agenda not related?
So let me ask , do you see both/either one of them as "sick piece of shit', term you just used compassionately about a member here in a qualified manner?

I deserved it.

[kcchiefs6465]

Blowback or not, it is morally unjustifiable.
That it is.

The thing is, no policy was changed. It wasn't even considered. Indeed, they ramped up the war efforts and drone strikes, the sanctions and killing of innocent civilians. That is where our focus should be. Bringing our troops home and ending this madness. Everyday they create more Nidal Hassan's. It isn't uncommon for this to occur in Afghanistan. Afghani police are shooting soldiers pretty frequently. Of course you never hear about it on the MSM.

People are shocked this happened. They will be shocked the next time it happens. And the next time. What their cognitive dissonance won't allow them to do is to look objectively at our policy and see what is the motivation behind these attacks. If you honestly look at it, some of the blame falls on the feet of the policy makers.

[eduardo89]

He is a semite with family roots in Israeli occupied Palwstinian territories. He apparently linked attacks on Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans in same string.

Afghans are neither Arabs nor Semites.

Iraqi Arabs and Palestinians are also very different ethnic groups. Yes, they are broadly both classified as Arabs, but the majority of Iraqis are Shia while the majority of Palestinians are Sunni. Iraqi Arabic and Palestianian (Levant) Arabic are very different. They are as similar as Brits and Americans are.

[enhanced_deficit]

Afghans are neither Arabs nor Semites.

Iraqi Arabs and Palestinians are also very different ethnic groups. Yes, they are broadly both classified as Arabs, but the majority of Iraqis are Shia while the majority of Palestinians are Sunni. Iraqi Arabic and Palestianian (Levant) Arabic are very different. They are as similar as Brits and Americans are.

That might be true and also explains why 7/11 attacks that killed couple of dozen Brits got more coverage in controlled US media than almost a million Arab Christians killed/exiled in Iraq after neecons invaded that country due to racial/greed/revenge reasons.

[BlackTerrel]

Nidal Hassan was listening to Al Awlaki and felt strongly about what was going on in the Middle East. He stated the motivations for his shooting rampage. It is blowback.

You are obsessed with race in an unhealthy manner. It is your identity, apparently. It's getting old.

I'm just using it as an example. I'm not Muslim so I can't use that.

If someone feels their group is under attack can they kill those they think they are attacking them and classify it as blowback.

Hassan was American. That is the point.

[BlackTerrel]

Nidal Hassan was listening to Al Awlaki and felt strongly about what was going on in the Middle East. He stated the motivations for his shooting rampage. It is blowback.

You are obsessed with race in an unhealthy manner. It is your identity, apparently. It's getting old.

I'm just using it as an example. I'm not Muslim so I can't use that.

If someone feels their group is under attack can they kill those they think they are attacking them and classify it as blowback.

Hassan was American. That is the point.

[Pericles]

No. Shooting unsuspecting, unarmed, men and women is not remotely close to heroic.

It was, however, preventable and if our foreign policy is not changed there will be more instances of people retaliating against the US and its soldiers.

It happens biweekly in Afghanistan. That is, an Afghan police opens fire on their trainers/American counterparts. It is a tragedy and not something to be glamorized. People need to come to their goddamn senses and end this nonsense.

You may think of what is happening in Afghanistan as an occupation, but the Army sees it as a location with occasional workplace violence.

[willwash]

Some interesting discussion. I think I'll add a poll about what the sentence should be.

[bolil]

Well, any investigation into anything must consider the reasons. Was this guy a sicko? Seems like he was. How, exactly, was this sicko able to work his way up to Major? He must have seemed pretty normal.

What needs asking is would this guy have gone on this rampage without his stated reasons? Maybe, he may have come up with a different excuse. The act is deplorable, but the reasons are what they are.

[Pericles]

For what? Wasn't he American?

man you gotta understand that today's Army is all about diversity. You can't get more diverse than letting the soldiers pick on which side they want to fight.

[eduardo89]

I voted death.

[kcchiefs6465]

You may think of what is happening in Afghanistan as an occupation, but the Army sees it as a location with occasional workplace violence.
They see it as a blank check, yes. It is a shame young men and women are subjected to the tragedy of it all to keep unproductive leeches working and select corporations rich. War is a racket. I don't want to speak on the dead soldier's families but I pray that they see through this all for what it is - senseless.

Unfortunately I know this isn't going to end anytime soon. Ike was right.

[kcchiefs6465]

I'm just using it as an example. I'm not Muslim so I can't use that.

If someone feels their group is under attack can they kill those they think they are attacking them and classify it as blowback.

Hassan was American. That is the point.
What does him being an American have to do with anything?

He knew and read about what was going on in the Middle East. Our foreign policy is what led to this massacre. That is not excusing or attempting to justify what he did. If Iraqi sanctions and other war crimes weren't committed, there would have been no Al Awlaki as the world knew him. There would be no Nidal Hassan as the world knew him. This would not have happened.

You are blind if you do not see the correlation of our policies with respect to the attacks against us. They very clearly say their reasoning behind the attacks. It is foolish to ignore it. It isn't our freedom or that women can drive cars and vote. It is our policies in the Middle East. Mainly, our undying support of Israel, which they see as hypocritical, the sanctions of Iraq and the sum 500,000 kids dead as a result, and us dictating to and dominating the region. (our base on the Arabian Peninsula was a motivating factor of 9/11)

I have no doubt that two headed, three armed babies in Fallujah is creating untallied hatred of us and that the drone strikes killing innocent civilians and terrorizing countries also play a role. Until we objectively look at our policy with regards to what our expectations and reasons are, it will not end. If our expectation or reasoning is to be in perpetual war and endanger the entire population, we are on the right track. If our expectation is peace and prosperity, free trade, and righting wrongs we've done in the past, we are on the wrong path. The people need to educate themselves and decide whether this immoral, illegal, bullshit is going to be tolerated or perpetrated in our names, or not.

I think I have spoken on how I feel about the issue. What say you?

[kcchiefs6465]

I vote firing squad.

I also vote to end the senselessness of all this damn tragedy.

I vote for open and honest relationships and trade. I vote for the people to become educated. For them to hold their elected leaders accountable. I vote the leeches of society, to be clear, Lockheed Martin and co. employees get real goddamn jobs. I vote all corporate welfare ended as well as the sanctions and threatening rhetoric.

The hell does it even matter for? Is my vote tallied or are Republicans and Democrats playing by their own rules or some unseen rules? I suppose the impending bankruptcy will bring about change. They'll lounge comfortably in their palaces, no doubt.

Meh. None of these fucking assholes ever represented me. Goddamn devils in humanitarian disguises.

[Christian Liberty]

Who is? Nidal Hassan?

You seem incapable of recanting your earlier post.

My first post in this thread was not to attempt to justify his actions as they are unjustifiable. It was to recognize what caused this tragedy and attempt to sway opinion of those who do not see this as blowback from our foreign policy. There will be more cases of this so long as we continue down this path. Instead of offending or disgusting virtually everyone, why don't you suggest solutions to end these ongoing tragedies?

No, Afghanis in Afghanistan. Not Hasan. BTW I voted "Death" in the poll as well.


I voted death.

As did I.

[oyarde]

Why do these cases take so long?

It should not have , he collected alot of pay from taxpayers .

[oyarde]

Why do these cases take so long?

Now there will be an automatic appeal , and then , whatever sentence up held.

[oyarde]

Anybody know anything about this guys parents? Nidal means war in arabic.

[oyarde]

Most do not just become nutjobs, sometimes, but mostly they always were.

[bolil]

for killing the pregnant woman, it must be death.

[bolil]

for killing the pregnant woman, it must be death.

[A Son of Liberty]

I'm just using it as an example. I'm not Muslim so I can't use that.

If someone feels their group is under attack can they kill those they think they are attacking them and classify it as blowback.

Hassan was American. That is the point.

What are you talking about? No one is saying that what Hassan did was justifiable. That's not what Ron was saying when he gave Ghouliani his famous reading assignment, yet the fact is that things like this and 9/11 ARE a consequence of the US governments foreign interventionism. That is what 'blowback' is.

[A Son of Liberty]

So whatever the murderer says goes.

What? 'Blowback' is a term we use to describe the consequences of US foreign interventionism.

I guess we could just stick our collective head in the sand and assure ourselves that they just hate us for our freedoms, rather than seek to understand why all these things happen.


I've seen tweets on RPF of supposed black people saying they are going to kill random white people due to the Trayvon Martin verdict.

If this were to happen this would be A) blowback or B) racist psychopaths

My tendency would be B.

In fact I don't think I've ever seen someone make blowback argument except in case where murderer was Muslim.

A young boy is picked on in school for years and years, and one day goes off and shoots a bunch of his classmates. That would be an example of 'blowback'. It doesn't make what the young boy did okay. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't face consequences for what he did. It doesn't mean that we should sympathize with the boy. It means we should seek to understand what came before his terrible act, rather than just emotionally react to it.

[eduardo89]

So whatever the murderer says goes.

slim.

Bacisallu this is the RPF MO.

If its a Muslim they. Are innocent and justified.

[A Son of Liberty]

Bacisallu this is the RPF MO.

If its a Muslim they. Are innocent and justified.

Nonsense. We can assume that, according to you, when Ron Paul speaks of 'Blowback', he's implying that terrorists are innocent and their actions are justified?

[BlackTerrel]

What does him being an American have to do with anything?

Because blowback is that hey "you came after us, now we're going to come after you". In this case there is no us and you. He is as American as the people he killed.


He knew and read about what was going on in the Middle East. Our foreign policy is what led to this massacre. That is not excusing or attempting to justify what he did. If Iraqi sanctions and other war crimes weren't committed, there would have been no Al Awlaki as the world knew him. There would be no Nidal Hassan as the world knew him. This would not have happened.

You are blind if you do not see the correlation of our policies with respect to the attacks against us. They very clearly say their reasoning behind the attacks. It is foolish to ignore it. It isn't our freedom or that women can drive cars and vote. It is our policies in the Middle East. Mainly, our undying support of Israel, which they see as hypocritical, the sanctions of Iraq and the sum 500,000 kids dead as a result, and us dictating to and dominating the region. (our base on the Arabian Peninsula was a motivating factor of 9/11)

I have no doubt that two headed, three armed babies in Fallujah is creating untallied hatred of us and that the drone strikes killing innocent civilians and terrorizing countries also play a role. Until we objectively look at our policy with regards to what our expectations and reasons are, it will not end. If our expectation or reasoning is to be in perpetual war and endanger the entire population, we are on the right track. If our expectation is peace and prosperity, free trade, and righting wrongs we've done in the past, we are on the wrong path. The people need to educate themselves and decide whether this immoral, illegal, bullshit is going to be tolerated or perpetrated in our names, or not.

I think I have spoken on how I feel about the issue. What say you?

I agree with the concept of blowback. Definitely when it comes to topics like 9/11.

But I don't think it explains every incident. Sometimes psychopaths are just psychopaths - and sometimes they're motivated by extremist ideology. The older Boston bomber didn't hate Americans that much till his boxing career turned South - then suddenly he hated US foreign policy. Sometimes it's just an excuse to take out your anger.

[compromise]

I wouldn't want him to become a martyr for the other Jihadis so I'd say life imprisonment. Preferably in Guantanamo.

[James Madison]

Exile him.