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phill4paul
08-23-2013, 08:15 AM
Boogity boogity. Googled to find out how I could become a card carrying member of the Sovereign Citizen movement. Still looking.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/23/20151351-thwarted-domestic-terror-plot-to-kill-vegas-cops#comments


By Ken Ritter, The Associated Press
A couple spent hundreds of hours over four months plotting to abduct, torture and kill Las Vegas police officers as a way to attract attention to their anti-authority "sovereign citizens" movement, police said.

David Allen Brutsche and Devon Campbell Newman attended training sessions about sovereign citizen philosophy, shopped for guns, found a vacant house and rigged it to bind captives to cross beams during interrogation, and recorded videos to explain their actions and why officers had to die.

At every step, police said Thursday, an undercover officer was with them, documenting and recording the alleged plot.
Newman, 67, of Las Vegas was a bit nervous, according to a police report. She asked at one meeting to unplug the television because she thought authorities could use it to listen to their conversations.

Brutsche, 42, an ex-con child sex offender from California, practiced stalking Newman, posing as a police officer and putting a gun to her head to take her into custody, the report said.

The SWAT arrests of Brutsche and Newman this week at their apartment about three miles east of the Las Vegas Strip, scuttled a carefully planned operation to draw the world's attention to the sovereign citizen cause, Las Vegas police Lt. James Seebock told reporters. He characterized the case as a domestic terror plot.

"They were furthering their 'sovereign citizen' ideology by committing criminal acts toward law enforcement," Seebock said. "The suspects believed that once the first kidnapping and execution was accomplished, they would be compelled to keep repeating their actions, kidnapping and killing multiple officers."

Federal authorities regard sovereign citizen extremists as domestic terrorists. Authorities have linked sovereign citizen groups with violent confrontations in recent years, including deadly police shootings in Louisiana and Arkansas.

In Louisiana last year, police said that at least some of the seven people arrested after a shootout that left two deputies dead and two others wounded had links to a sovereign citizen group.

In Arkansas in 2010, a father and son identified as sovereign citizen followers shot and killed two police officers before being killed by authorities in a separate shootout.

Brutsche and Newman were held Thursday at the Clark County jail in Las Vegas pending court appearances on charges including conspiracy to commit murder and attempted kidnapping. It was not immediately known if they had lawyers.
Police said the investigation began when the unidentified undercover officer befriended Brutsche and Newman in April.
Authorities haven't released video evidence, but the 10-page police report states that every one of the 30 meetings with the undercover officer was recorded by audio or video.

"We need to arrest the police and take them to our jail and put them in a cell and put them on trial in a people's court," Brutsche said July 9, according to the arrest report. "If we run into the position that they resist, then we need to kill them."

During a tour of gun stores the next day, Brutsche said that what they were planning was going to be big, "and that they would really get a large following once they started because of the publicity," the report said.

Police said that when Brutsche was arrested, he denied that police had authority to hold him.
Newman told a KLAS-TV reporter in a jailhouse interview Thursday that she didn't really think Brutsche was serious about kidnapping and killing police, and that officers overstepped their authority in arresting her.

Athan
08-23-2013, 08:22 AM
Entrapment of mentally ill people. Throw the case out.

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 08:30 AM
Boogity boogity. Googled to find out how I could become a card carrying member of the Sovereign Citizen movement. Still looking.

Rejection of the present corrupt system+ Anti-Authoritarianism= Sovereign Citizen.

Most that I have heard are constitutionalists,, not anarchists.


This does look like another case of an FBI created plot.. reminiscent of the Hutaree.

phill4paul
08-23-2013, 08:32 AM
Rejection of the present corrupt system+ Anti-Authoritarianism= Sovereign Citizen.

Most that I have heard are constitutionalists,, not anarchists.


This does look like another case of an FBI created plot.. reminiscent of the Hutaree.

My thoughts also. They needed to throw out the memes that will be coming down the pike as more and more just say "No."

shane77m
08-23-2013, 08:40 AM
My thoughts also. They needed to throw out the memes that will be coming down the pike as more and more just say "No."

I was part of the "Just say no" program in the early 80's. Perhaps it's time to create a program of the same name. This time it will be saying "no" to the Feds.

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 08:46 AM
I was part of the "Just say no" program in the early 80's. Perhaps it's time to create a program of the same name. This time it will be saying "no" to the Feds.
If and when you do that you will see their true colors.

Ever heard of this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSPozBWAJng

phill4paul
08-23-2013, 08:55 AM
And of course, I'm sure not lost on many here, they had to include the ex-con child molester meme.

shane77m
08-23-2013, 08:56 AM
If and when you do that you will see their true colors.

Ever heard of this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSPozBWAJng

I am sure it would not end well. Unless enough people stood together and said enough. The only problem that if there was a "reset" we would just end up back where we are. Hopefully it would take longer though.

Imagine thousands of people marching on Washington with evidence of the crimes committed by politicians and then putting those politicians on trial in the public square. After that, round up the bankers and do the same thing. Wishful thinking though.

Edit: will look into Schaeffer.

shane77m
08-23-2013, 08:58 AM
I wonder how many people in the sovereign citizen movement are actually "dangerous" people vs how many are people that just want to be left alone?

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 09:05 AM
I wonder <snip> how many are people that just want to be left alone?

All of them.

KEEF
08-23-2013, 09:12 AM
I was part of the "Just say no" program in the early 80's. Perhaps it's time to create a program of the same name. This time it will be saying "no" to the Feds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3HKiGA3eU

fr33
08-23-2013, 09:30 AM
I have a feed set up on google news for the phrase sovereign citizen and its never good news. It's always about some former cop giving seminars in various cities about how dangerous the sovereign movement is. It's a smear campaign.

moostraks
08-23-2013, 09:54 AM
Domestic terrorism sure seems to be a popular theme nowadays. Unless you have your head down and are licking government boots it seems this charge can and will be levied against you to make sure no one else get uppity and question their overlords.

TruckinMike
08-23-2013, 10:10 AM
I have a feed set up on google news for the phrase sovereign citizen and its never good news. It's always about some former cop giving seminars in various cities about how dangerous the sovereign movement is. It's a smear campaign.

Yep, a lot like this article (http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/schaeffer-cox-pleas-leniency-do-not-sway-judge-alaska-militia-leaders-sentencing) on Schaeffer's conviction and sentencing for 310-months for conspiracy to commit murder. If he actually did plot to murder he certainly didn't help the cause of freedom, thats for sure. However I don't know any more about his case than this article I found about his conviction. But if we choose to err on the side of history(of the MSM) then its doubtful that this article resembles anything near the truth. More than likely its nothing more than state Propaganda.


In the end, Judge Bryan agreed that the psychologist's findings about Cox's mental health made sense. The terms he'd written in his own trial notes after Cox's performance before the jury offered a parallel impression to the psychologist's: paranoia, grandiosity, narcissism, egocentricity, pathological lying. Still, serious mental health issues wouldn't soften Cox's fate – a fate he'd brought upon himself and his family, according to the judge. He could get help in prison for his paranoia and delusions, and it was clear he posed an ongoing danger to society.

tod evans
08-23-2013, 10:50 AM
+ rep for "Boogity boogity.":D

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 11:08 AM
Did you read what was written about the Hutaree? They were eventually acquitted.. The whole case was a fabrication.
fortunately they got a judge that saw it for what it was.

There are You Tube videos of Cox speaking at a couple venues.. Listen to the man,, then think what you will.
Do not make up your mind based on the MSM spin.

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 11:24 AM
Yep, a lot like this article (http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/schaeffer-cox-pleas-leniency-do-not-sway-judge-alaska-militia-leaders-sentencing) on Schaeffer's conviction and sentencing for 310-months for conspiracy to commit murder. If he actually did plot to murder he certainly didn't help the cause of freedom, thats for sure. However I don't know any more about his case than this article I found about his conviction. But if we choose to err on the side of history(of the MSM) then its doubtful that this article resembles anything near the truth. More than likely its nothing more than state Propaganda.

For your listening pleasure,,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFOUqurUgFk

Does he make any sense or not? Does he seem dangerous to you?

Or is the truth a threat?

TruckinMike
08-23-2013, 11:46 AM
Does he make any sense or not?

Yes of course, we all learned this back in '06 if not before




Does he seem dangerous to you?


Not to me.




Or is the truth a threat?

Yes. He is a threat to the oath-breaking establishment.

Thus...


...More than likely its nothing more than state Propaganda.

ClydeCoulter
08-23-2013, 11:55 AM
Even though they admit he (Cox) harmed no one, and his threats we only retaliatory in nature (hit one of ours we will hit 2 of yours), they still got him, for 24 years?

better-dead-than-fed
08-23-2013, 04:20 PM
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/23/20151351-thwarted-domestic-terror-plot-to-kill-vegas-cops#comments

"We need to arrest the police and take them to our jail and put them in a cell and put them on trial in a people's court," Brutsche said July 9, according to the arrest report. "If we run into the position that they resist, then we need to kill them."

Excuse me for being slow, but what crime did these people commit? Plotting to make a citizens arrest is legal in Arizona; is it not legal in Las Vegas too?

pcosmar
08-23-2013, 04:36 PM
A 67 yr old woman with no criminal record,, and an Ex con, (whacked out) and an FBI operative.

Which one do you suppose hatched this "plan"?

Pericles
08-24-2013, 12:09 AM
A 67 yr old woman with no criminal record,, and an Ex con, (whacked out) and an FBI operative.

Which one do you suppose hatched this "plan"?
How many guesses do I get?

speciallyblend
08-24-2013, 01:51 AM
JUST SAY NO, to state/fed over individual rights.

better-dead-than-fed
08-24-2013, 02:51 AM
FBI-hatched plans tend to involve harm against innocent civilians.

The only plan here was for citizens to arrest thugs with badges. No harm no foul.