Maine Liberty Republicans, including RNC Member Mark Willis, leave GOP

[tsai3904]

One of Maine’s voting representatives to the Republican National Committee and six other libertarian and conservative members of the Republican State Committee have resigned their posts and left the party, citing a list of grievances at the state and national levels. Five other enrolled Republicans also joined the exodus.

“(We) can no longer allow ourselves to be called nor enrolled as Republicans; we can no longer associate ourselves with a political party that goes out of its way to continually restrict our freedoms and liberties as well as reaching deeper and deeper into our wallets,” reads a letter signed by Maine Republican National Committeeman Mark Willis and 11 others that was sent to a state party official. “We instead choose the path that focuses on ways to help our fellow Mainers outside of party politics.”

The decision by Willis and the others to unenroll from the Maine Republican Party and resign from their positions is a sign of the continuing discord among some within Republican ranks as the party struggles to rebuild after stinging losses at the ballot box.

Libertarian or “Liberty Movement” Republicans, although representing a small but growing faction, won control of their parties in Maine and several other states last year. But they have since clashed with more mainstream or “establishment” leaders. The discord has been pronounced in Maine, as evidenced by a high-profile internal fight that spilled onto the floor of the Republican National Convention last year and the recent resignations of the party’s two top officials.

More:
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Six-top-Maine-Republicans-quit-party.html?pagenum=full

[supermario21]

Discouraging, there goes any leverage to make the party less statist, though I'm sure the majority of Maine Republicans are the old Rockefeller type.

[FrankRep]

That was retarded.

[angelatc]

Dumb, but unless you have been in the thick of it, you cant understand it.

[CaptLouAlbano]

If I counted correctly, these folks made up about 15% of the state committee. Patience is a virtue. This is a shame, because now it is a step backwards for the liberty movement in that state. Time to find some new folks to take their place, that can hopefully have more perseverance.

[FrankRep]

If I counted correctly, these folks made up about 15% of the state committee. Patience is a virtue. This is a shame, because now it is a step backwards for the liberty movement in that state. Time to find some new folks to take their place, that can hopefully have more perseverance.
With more effort they could have owned the state committee.

The Neocons just won Maine.

[NoOneButPaul]

They should all move to NH...

[Keith and stuff]

They should all move to NH...
The NHGOP is very welcoming to liberty lovers. It is easy for a liberty lover to got on the state committee.

If I was on the ME State Committee I would be really annoyed by this. It is really hard for Republicans to get elected in many parts of ME and they need all of the help they can get. Now with less people on the Committee, it might be harder for some Republican candidates in 2014.

I'm not surprised that some of the newly political Ron Paul folks might get annoyed with ME politics. I thought GOP politics was pointless where I used to live. That's one of the reasons I moved to NH.

[Keith and stuff]

The letter. It deals with a lot of national issues. That doesn't make sense to me. These people should focus on their state party, state issues, state candidates and state bills. And sure, taxes went up in Maine but taxes always go up in Maine, people there love taxes. And yes, Gov. LePage did veto some good bills but what do you expect, he isn't Ron Paul or even Rand Paul or even Ted Cruz. Overall, he is pretty good on the issues, especially by ME standards.

http://media.kjonline.com/documents/MaineGOP-resignations-letter.pdf

August 18, 2013
To Maine State GOP Secretary Chuck Mahaleris:
There are times in your life when you must choose between two paths.
The first path, if taken, would require us to remain within the Republican Party despite the fact that we
know without a doubt that Republican ideas of more freedom and less taxes -- while sounding good
and repeated by any and all candidates – are in fact, worth no more than the paper that they are written
on.
The second path leads to a principled preservation of our individual integrity, helping out our fellow
citizens at the local level, and doing our level best for our Creator, our families, and our friends.
We have therefore chosen to follow the path of the latter.
Effective immediately, we the undersigned are unenrolling from the Maine Republican Party.
Furthermore, those of us who hold official Party positions, be they at the Republican National, State,
County or even Town Committees, hereby resign. Our reasons for doing so are as follows:
The RNC:
At the RNC, we have fought the good fight and kept the faith with regards to the rules. The Resolution
that was passed in January 2013 by the Maine Republican State Committee put the RNC on notice that
the grassroots were listening (and watching), leading to the rules battles which have taken place
consistently since the 2012 Republican National Convention in Tampa. The duplicity and lack of
political courage which has been on display in this matter has sealed the fate of this Party.
Furthermore, it has become clear to us now that the RNC has no intention of reforming and would
rather fly under invalid rules than to right the wrongs of Tampa. We therefore cannot, in good faith,
support or defend the actions of the RNC. To violate our consciences and support those actions would
make us part of the problem – especially after we clearly provided and handed the RNC the solution
which was flatly rejected. The RNC now owns their demise.
Congressional Republicans:
In the House of Representatives, the cowardly leadership of John Boehner reached a new low in
December 2012 when he purged the most fiscally conservative GOP members from leadership
positions, citing their “unwillingness to be team players.” Political punishment such as this from
Speaker Boehner has garnered justifiable rage from conservative groups, and from us, as we expected
better.
Furthermore, the House Republican leadership's utter disdain for the United States Constitution,
specifically the 4th Amendment, was on full display as they worked overtime to kill the Amash
Amendment which would have gone a long way toward constraining the NSA to the boundaries of the
Constitution and seriously curbed their ability to conduct mass surveillance of Americans. Be it known
that we cannot and will not support nor defend these actions.
In the United States Senate, we see Republicans all too willing to pass unconstitutional bills related to
subjects such as the Internet Sales Tax and Immigration. Whether through arrogance or ignorance, they
fail to understand the simple fact any revenue generating legislation must originate in the House of
Representatives.
Additionally, the Senate Republicans continue to support undeclared wars, meet in secret and supply
arms to our “terrorist enemies” who we vowed to destroy after 911, and then tell us they love our
troops – so long as it's our kids and not theirs who have to go fight.
Lastly, all too many Senate Republicans are more than willing to pass new “feel good” gun control
legislation that would do nothing to stop another Sandy Hook massacre, all the while restricting 2nd
Amendment rights of law abiding American citizens. We cannot support nor defend these actions in
good faith.
Maine Republican Legislators:
In Maine, the Republican legislators in the House and Senate failed to sustain the Governor's veto on
one of the most important pieces of legislation of the 126th. Maine Republicans were justifiably
outraged, especially at those legislators who campaigned on lower taxes.
We have been told that many donors have refused to donate one more cent to the MEGOP due to this
budget debacle, but nevertheless we are expected to ignore these facts and get out there and raise funds
for the party. This we cannot do in good faith; the Republican Party has lost its way and the donors
know it.
The LePage Administration:
Not to be outdone by the legislators, this Administration's support for Common Core Education
Standards, the Internet Sales Tax, the atypical meddling in the business of the Maine State Committee,
as well as the vetoes of the Drone and Cell Phone bills left many of us incredulous.
However, the straw that broke the camel's back for many of us was the veto of LD 1282 (the “Raw
Milk Bill”) and those who voted to sustain it: a sad day indeed for the small farmers of Maine. We
want our God-given rights to buy, sell and consume what we want protected by the law – not restricted
by FDA or USDA directives. These actions we cannot explain nor defend in good faith – the
Republican Party has lost it's way.
Therefore, for the above-stated reasons, we can no longer allow ourselves to be called nor enrolled as
Republicans; we can no longer associate ourselves with a political party that goes out of its way to
continually restrict our freedoms and liberties as well as reaching deeper and deeper into our wallets.
We instead choose the path that focuses on ways to help our fellow Mainers outside of party politics.
Some of us may be town officers or board members.
Some of us may leave all options on the table with regards to running for higher office as Independents.
Some of us may be small farmers and gardeners who desire to help feed their communities.
Others may simply want to just get part of their life back, catching up and spending more time with
friends and neighbors.
Sincerely,
Republican National Committee Member:
Mark Willis, Washington County
Maine Republican State Committee Members:
Thomas Barry, Androscoggin County
Ann-Marie Grimes Grenier, Cumberland County
Gregory Hodge, Lincoln County
Olga LaPlante, Cumberland County
Russell Montgomery, Knox County
Violet Willis, Washington County
Maine Registered Republicans:
Sam Canders, Penobscot County
Bryan Daugherty, Penobscot County
Maria Hodge, Penobscot County
L. Scott D'Amboise, Androscoggin County
Debbie D'Amboise, Androscoggin County

[CaptLouAlbano]

Good observation Keith. I guess the question I would have to ask is what did they expect? They are a minority in the party. You bite your tongue, hold your ground and increase your numbers over time. Change doesn't happen overnight.

[jjdoyle]

Well, is this group the same group that were delegates for Ron Paul to the RNC, and were outright rejected at the RNC and not recognized, and basically abandoned by Ron Paul 2012?

[kathy88]

Well, is this group the same group that were delegates for Ron Paul to the RNC, and were outright rejected at the RNC and not recognized, and basically abandoned by Ron Paul 2012?

Some of them, I would imagine. They were all very very cool. Met them in Tampa.

[LibertyEagle]

Disappointing for sure. I wish they had hung on, but I wasn't in their shoes.

[Jackie Moon]

Disappointing for sure. I wish they had hung on, but I wasn't in their shoes.

That's pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

I can't judge them because I wasn't in their shoes. I know it was rough, especially for them with what happened at the RNC.

But it's still disappointing.

[FSP-Rebel]

Jeez louise, keep coalition building don't quit. Barely one election cycle and then out, even the NV folks have been through more and kept at it.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It took 15 years for libertarians to take the majority in our county.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Influence grows like a weed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdmiOnkPnjU

[jjdoyle]

Some of them, I would imagine. They were all very very cool. Met them in Tampa.

Maybe some are upset that after they paid their way to Tampa, for nothing, they are being charged for Ron Paul Channel also? :rolleyes:

[lib3rtarian]

Well, that escalated quickly. Does anyone think the ME GOP gives 2 hoots about the feelings of these folks who left and now will change their ways based on a letter? These folks should have stayed on. But yeah, things must have been really screwed up.

[Bastiat's The Law]

Their influence would have grown with time. Just in time for Rand's run. But that takes a certain degree of forethought.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Their influence would have grown with time. Just in time for Rand's run. But that takes a certain degree of forethought.

This is a marathon, not a sprint. The progressives get it, it's a shame some of our people don't get it.

[angelatc]

This is a marathon, not a sprint. The progressives get it, it's a shame some of our people don't get it.

Yep. I get it, but I don't agree.

My husband made the same choice. He couldn't stand to be around the mainstream GOP loudmouths. I can't either, but they can't stand to be around me, either. :) I'm not going away unless they shove me of a cliff.

And now my son is 18, so he can be a delegate too.

[XTreat]

Yep. I get it, but I don't agree.

My husband made the same choice. He couldn't stand to be around the mainstream GOP loudmouths. I can't either, but they can't stand to be around me, either. :) I'm not going away unless they shove me of a cliff.

And now my son is 18, so he can be a delegate too.



My problem is I hate them and I am not a very diplomatic person.

[J_White]

why give up now ?
disappointing, but then maybe they had to.

[Keith and stuff]

why give up now ?
disappointing, but then maybe they had to.

Maybe there is no hope for turning around the RNC or politics in Maine and they finally realized that? I think it might be possible to fix ME politics 10-20 years down the line but only if liberty works in New Hampshire. We shall see. A lot of it depends on 20,000 people signing up for the Free State Project.

[angelatc]

My problem is I hate them and I am not a very diplomatic person.

I'm not either. But you already knew that. :)

But my husband is, and it frustrates him that he can't communicate with the goons.

[Cleaner44]

I can imagine nothing more fun than being a huge thorn to the establishment GOP by taking those very spots they despise liberty Republicans holding. The key is to take pleasure in making the corrupt neocons expose themselves and their BIG GOVT agenda. The best way to weaken their grip is to deny them positions.

[Mitchell2]

Sucks; the neo-cons in Maine are probably having a party right now. Of course, I can't imagine how bad it must've been for these guys to quit.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Too bad the Progressives in the GOP don't give up so easily.

[Bastiat's The Law]

My problem is I hate them and I am not a very diplomatic person.
The revenge you want will be yours in time.

[compromise]

These people made an incredibly stupid decision. Luckily, there are still a few other liberty-types in the ME GOP left.

[muzzled dogg]

it's a shame how little publicity this got. does kinda seem like a waste

[Keith and stuff]

it's a shame how little publicity this got. does kinda seem like a waste
I noticed that no one is even commenting on the stories. No one seems to even care. Than again, Republicans in Maine aren't exactly popular or powerful. It goes unenrolled, Democrat, Republican there :(

[CaptLouAlbano]

I noticed that no one is even commenting on the stories. No one seems to even care. Than again, Republicans in Maine aren't exactly popular or powerful. It goes unenrolled, Democrat, Republican there :(

To the average person, a story about 7 committee members resigning is not the least bit interesting.

[CaptLouAlbano]

--- dup post

[georgiaboy]

So "As Maine Goes, So Goes The Nation" doesn't have the same ring to it anymore.

[Keith and stuff]

So "As Maine Goes, So Goes The Nation" doesn't have the same ring to anymore.

It was just a saying anyway. At least for the last 20 years. Maine is no longer a swing state. Well, it does still swing as 2010 proved but I certainly wouldn't classify it as a swing state. I'd reserve that for states like NV, IA, VA, NH, OH, WI, VW, KY among others.

[CaptLouAlbano]

It was just a saying anyway. At least for the last 20 years. Maine is no longer a swing state. Well, it does still swing as 2010 proved but I certainly wouldn't classify it as a swing state. I'd reserve that for states like NV, IA, VA, NH, OH, WI, VW, KY among others.

Might add PA to that list. I read somewhere that they are looking to change to proportional distribution of electoral votes.

[69360]

I'm disappointed they quit. I think it was selfish and they should have stuck it out.

[Keith and stuff]

Might add PA to that list. I read somewhere that they are looking to change to proportional distribution of electoral votes.

No problem. I said among others for a reason. But let me list those states again with PA added ;)

I'd reserve that for states like NV, IA, VA, NH, OH, WI, VW, KY and PA among others.

[Keith and stuff]

I'm disappointed they quit. I think it was selfish and they should have stuck it out.

You know Maine though. Likely no chance for liberty there. Well, if liberty works in NH because of the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org/), there is hope for Maine. Otherwise, not likely :(

[Brian4Liberty]

People write joint statements all the time. The difference is that they usually don't end them with "now I'm taking my marbles and going home."

If they were tired of it (understandable), they could have taken a break, or left as individuals. Their joint statement as a group of "liberty-activists" makes it seem like they were speaking for the movement. Obviously they only speak for themselves, but it sounds like a surrender.

[muzzled dogg]

Isn't Maine hosting the next rlc nat convention?

[Keith and stuff]

Isn't Maine hosting the next rlc nat convention?
Where is that info? Since Maine is a solidly Democratic state, that doesn't make sense.

[CaptLouAlbano]

Where is that info? Since Maine is a solidly Democratic state, that doesn't make sense.

Here - http://rlc.org/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=1

It doesn't make sense politically or logistically.

[Keith and stuff]

Fair enough. +Rep to both of you. I thought you guys meant an event that mattered like a 2014 or 2016 meeting. I have to watch for the tricksters! This might be a good event to recruit for the Free State Project at. NH is perhaps the state where liberty folks are most welcomed in the State Committee. Maine, well, it clearly isn't :(

[TheTyke]

While I'm pretty disappointed that they would do this, and think it marginalizes more than helps them... I don't know the full situation. I'm pleased to see though that Ashley Ryan and others weren't on the list. They inspired countless others around the country with their work. Here is praying that they have the fortitude to hang on until we get them some reinforcements. The battle for our country will not be won in a single year, but with perseverance and a good grasp of strategy and principle.

[Keith and stuff]

While I'm pretty disappointed that they would do this, and think it marginalizes more than helps them... I don't know the full situation. I'm pleased to see though that Ashley Ryan and others weren't on the list. They inspired countless others around the country with their work. Here is praying that they have the fortitude to hang on until we get them some reinforcements. The battle for our country will not be won in a single year, but with perseverance and a good grasp of strategy and principle.
Agreed! Though, they aren't likely to have reinforcements unless they move to New Hampshire. Hopefully, after their terms end, the MEGOP State Committee folks will do just that, and move to New Hampshire, where they will be treated with great respect.

[mosquitobite]

If Maine normally leans blue then they should have stayed on - they would have gained more power in the long run. Force the establishment to run candidates against you, don't just QUIT!

[TheTyke]

Agreed! Though, they aren't likely to have reinforcements unless they move to New Hampshire. Hopefully, after their terms end, the MEGOP State Committee folks will do just that, and move to New Hampshire, where they will be treated with great respect.

Well, I was thinking more of reinforcements all around the country. I've been planning, making connections, and working hard to see that next go around my state sends principled allies to the RNC, instead of the establishment hacks we've always sent in the past... With better strategy and more allies, we should take more states every go around... just like the difference from 2008 to 2012.

But I'm inspired by what New Hampshire is doing too! And all the liberty people who stand their ground and keep active everywhere. Keep up the good work.

[eleganz]

Some of these guys sacrificed a lot to fight for us, they traveled to all of the RNC meetings to fight the rules and got shot down pretty badly every single time.

I'm disappointed in their leaving, especially after the Alaska situation... but I totally understand, this is a hard fight to take on and keep up. I'm sure those guys will concentrate their energy in something more productive.

[Keith and stuff]

Alaska, Nevada and now Maine. BTW, only 1 of these Maine people was on the RNC. I guess the taking over strategy doesn't work. The be friendly and get along strategy used in New Hampshire seems to be working very well, though ;)

[eleganz]

I think they could've kept it going in the state committee, they did have a good presence there and passed many resolutions. RNC is a lost cause and just because the rules aren't reverted, doesn't mean we still aren't going to fight to win Iowa, NH, etc...

[fr33]

A blog post about it: http://thelibertylobster.com/2013/08/19/how-to-leave-a-party-the-maine-thirteen/

[TheTyke]

Well, wars go on for a long time, and you win some and lose some. For example, I hear we just won the Oregon GOP chair, which was very under the radar and an unexpected surprise. Most notably, I think we are strongest in presidential election years when there is most excitement - which is why various state GOPs are trying to move elections to off years. The important thing seems to be to keep up our efforts and continue making & finding allies...

Edit: Fr33 - The author suggests exactly the wrong direction. The Establishment spent millions of dollars, broke rules and bones to keep us out of the positions. So after all that, we give them exactly what they wanted? Talk about a bummer.

[eduardo89]

Discouraging, there goes any leverage to make the party less statist, though I'm sure the majority of Maine Republicans are the old Rockefeller type.


That was retarded.


Dumb, but unless you have been in the thick of it, you cant understand it.


If I counted correctly, these folks made up about 15% of the state committee. Patience is a virtue. This is a shame, because now it is a step backwards for the liberty movement in that state. Time to find some new folks to take their place, that can hopefully have more perseverance.

Agree with all of you. This was a dumb move.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I guess the taking over strategy doesn't work.

You can't take over when you hold a small minority of the seats. It takes time and patience. I posted earlier in this thread, it took close to 15 years for libertarians to take the majority in our county.

[Keith and stuff]

You can't take over when you hold a small minority of the seats. It takes time and patience. I posted earlier in this thread, it took close to 15 years for libertarians to take the majority in our county.
Taking over seems to be counterproductive. I don't recommend it at all. What if people get mad at you? What if people lower the level of energy they put into GOP politics? I like being invited to be the leaders. That's what happened to liberty folks in New Hampshire. We were invited to join the state committee and to run for office. We did and many of us won. It was very easy and fun!

[CaptLouAlbano]

Taking over seems to be counterproductive. I don't recommend it at all. What if people get mad at you? What if people lower the level of energy they put into GOP politics? I like being invited to be the leaders. That's what happened to liberty folks in New Hampshire. We were invited to join the state committee and to run for office. We did and many of us won. It was very easy and fun!

In many states, the committee seat is an elected office (I know you know this, but for the benefit of others). And just like any elected office, you have to bide your time and wait for the opportunity to challenge for the seat. Sometimes you have a person in the seat that is a well-respected member of the community. In that case you have to wait them out until you can run for the seat. It is a long term strategy, and it is viable. Why? Because the very same thing was done to libertarians/paleocons/traditionalists by the neo-cons and moderates.

[Keith and stuff]

In many states, the committee seat is an elected office (I know you know this, but for the benefit of others). And just like any elected office, you have to bide your time and wait for the opportunity to challenge for the seat. Sometimes you have a person in the seat that is a well-respected member of the community. In that case you have to wait them out until you can run for the seat. It is a long term strategy, and it is viable. Why? Because the very same thing was done to libertarians/paleocons/traditionalists by the neo-cons and moderates.
It is an elected seat in New Hampshire and very easy to win ;) Trust me. Be a good Republican. Work hard for the party and you will be walked into the seat in NH, as many liberty activists have been ;)

[CaptLouAlbano]

It is an elected seat in New Hampshire and very easy to win ;) Trust me. Be a good Republican. Work hard for the party and you will be walked into the seat in NH, as many liberty activists have been ;)

Repeat times 26 states and the RNC Chair will be a libertarian.

[Keith and stuff]

I'm not interested very much in national politics. Maybe Ron and Rand but other than that, blah! State politics, especially in NH is what matters to me.

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm not interested very much in national politics. Maybe Ron and Rand but other than that, blah! State politics, especially in NH is what matters to me.

National has always been my main interest. I get involved in and donate time and money to state and local candidates, but my passion is on the federal side of things.

[Keith and stuff]

National has always been my main interest. I get involved in and donate time and money to state and local candidates, but my passion is on the federal side of things.

Not gonna win national politics if history is any indication. I recommend going for state politics ;)

[torchbearer]

same thing is happening in louisiana.
got report today the guy, herford, that was elected chairman of the lagop convention(and then was beat down) is now running for congress on the libertarian ticket.
the people coming over to the LP or long time gopers who don't know better.
maybe they'll prove me wrong.

[Keith and stuff]

Lol, LAGOP leaders are running on the LP ticket now? That is insane! No brain at all? Seems like it!

[torchbearer]

Lol, LAGOP leaders are running on the LP ticket now? That is insane! No brain at all? Seems like it!

i tried to explain to them that they automatically lost the partisan and ignorant votes. thats at least 80%.
best case scenario, they get 20%. since most of the people who'd vote for them know that- they won't show up at the poll.. making reality around 5%.

[torchbearer]

Lol, LAGOP leaders are running on the LP ticket now? That is insane! No brain at all? Seems like it!

they saw what we did in the caucus as a unit- we could win, but the apathy is thick, and the activist are scarce.

[torchbearer]

and to add-
the LALP is now organized in every parish.
when i left in 2007, we barely had congressional organization.
apparently, since the last convention of violent abuse on our people- a large group of them moved over and started organizing.
makes since that i was called back to the party.

[torchbearer]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/9556346893_a02b136225_o.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/HenryHerfordCD5

[CaptLouAlbano]

Not gonna win national politics if history is any indication. I recommend going for state politics ;)

I have Sanford, three quality candidates as potential replacements for Graham, and Scott (which wasn't that bad a replacement for DeMint). I'm reasonably content.

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Taking over seems to be counterproductive. I don't recommend it at all. What if people get mad at you? What if people lower the level of energy they put into GOP politics? I like being invited to be the leaders. That's what happened to liberty folks in New Hampshire. We were invited to join the state committee and to run for office. We did and many of us won. It was very easy and fun!

1) Each state is different and NH GOP is an anomaly
2) For instance the FLGOP actively kicked out (illegally I might add) Ron supporters who held positions
3) They're not going to invite Paul folk as leaders in positions of significant power (again NH is an anomaly)

How many GOP Governors would actively encourage, and join, for instance a Free-State movement trying to get libertarians into their state? Yeah, not many. You can't use your anecdote as a catcheism for the rest of the country. Also, where I am, you're better off being a Democrat if you're going to run for an office (Hawai'i...GL being elected as a GOP or Third Party here).

[fr33]

Edit: Fr33 - The author suggests exactly the wrong direction. The Establishment spent millions of dollars, broke rules and bones to keep us out of the positions. So after all that, we give them exactly what they wanted? Talk about a bummer.

I didn't write that blog; just linked to it. But I agree with it.

There's no point in me trying to work my way up the TX GOP. It will go nowhere.

In Texas we love our guns but it's illegal to open carry.

In Texas we love our property rights but we honestly have no property rights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Texas_Corridor

In Texas we hate Obamacare but please give us $100 million from the feds. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/rick-perry-obamacare-95727.html

I've been told from a high ranking GOPer in my county that Israel is more important than our constitution.


You think I'm going to waste my time fighting these idiots? They love everything Obama offers but they'd prefer a Republican was in charge of it.

[CaptLouAlbano]

RLC of Maine Still Committed to Working Within the GOP


http://rlc.org/article/rlc-maine-still-committed-working-within-gop

[Keith and stuff]

13 Maine Republicans Are Done With The GOP, Decide To Leave Party
The Huffington Post | By Chris Gentilviso Posted: 08/19/2013 6:24 pm EDT | Updated: 08/19/2013 11:12 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/maine-republicans-gop_n_3781973.html


According to the Maine Sun Journal, leading the exodus was RNC member Mark Willis of Washington County, former Senate candidate Scott D'Amboise of Lisbon, and former state party chair challenger Sam Canders. Willis said that to stop others from leaving, the party must start "governing like Republicans are supposed to be," the Sun Journal reported.
How do Republicans govern? Do they walk away from their positions? Do they leave their friends out to dry? Do they say, I'm leaving but now that I have less influence on you, this is what you need to do? I'm sorry but the average Republican is Mark Warden or Aaron Libby. However, if we continue to work with Republicans and try to influence them, they will become closer to that. If we walk away, what happens then?

[torchbearer]

13 Maine Republicans Are Done With The GOP, Decide To Leave Party
The Huffington Post | By Chris Gentilviso Posted: 08/19/2013 6:24 pm EDT | Updated: 08/19/2013 11:12 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/maine-republicans-gop_n_3781973.html


How do Republicans govern? Do they walk away from their positions? Do they leave their friends out to dry? Do they say, I'm leaving but now that I have less influence on you, this is what you need to do? I'm sorry but the average Republican is Mark Warden or Aaron Libby. However, if we continue to work with Republicans and try to influence them, they will become closer to that. If we walk away, what happens then?

what is wrong with publicly rejecting the two party system by action?

[CaptLouAlbano]

what is wrong with publicly rejecting the two party system by action?

Because at the end of the day it still exists, with or without them. And now, without them, they have lost whatever influence they may have had.

[torchbearer]

Because at the end of the day it still exists, with or without them. And now, without them, they have lost whatever influence they may have had.

its a numbers game.
and at the time of qualifying for a race- if things haven't changed- go with the process as is..
but in the end, the monopoly can end if the party apparatus of the GOP leaves.
it will condemn the GOP to tons of future losses... and the people will either have to learn that GOP is crap or just wait until everything collapses under democrat control.
but there will be no more neocon gop.

and to add- from the 'nice' things you and your gop associates have said about libertarians and the LP.
i'm glad people are leaving.
You deserve the government you have.

[Keith and stuff]

what is wrong with publicly rejecting the two party system by action?
Nothing. Especially if you live in a state like Maine. However, by quitting when they did, it makes them look like they are trying to sabotage the MEGOP. That hurts their friends still in the MEGOP. It also helps are future liberty lovers that run for anything in the MEGOP for a few years, because people will be bitter. And it is very odd, considering some of them just won office, and even more, they were actually making impressive inroads. From the outside looking it, it looks like they wanted instant gratification. When they couldn't get it, they took their ball and went him.

Many of us have been working within the GOP for years and developed strong relationships. They folks, from the outside, appear either amateurism or short sighted.

I could be COMPLETELY WRONG and I'm not trying to hate on these people as individuals. They are likely good people but this is exactly the opposite of what liberty folks should be trying to do if they are trying to influence others in the GOP. I've found the GOP where I live extremely welcoming. It's a night and day difference, I guess.

[torchbearer]

Nothing. Especially if you live in a state like Maine. However, by quitting when they did, it makes them look like they are trying to sabotage the MEGOP. That hurts their friends still in the MEGOP. It also helps are future liberty lovers that run for anything in the MEGOP for a few years, because people will be bitter. And it is very odd, considering some of them just won office, and even more, they were actually making impressive inroads. From the outside looking it, it looks like they wanted instant gratification. When they couldn't get it, they took their ball and went him.

Many of us have been working within the GOP for years and developed strong relationships. They folks, from the outside, appear either amateurism or short sighted.

I could be COMPLETELY WRONG and I'm not trying to hate on these people as individuals. They are likely good people but this is exactly the opposite of what liberty folks should be trying to do if they are trying to influence others in the GOP. I've found the GOP where I live extremely welcoming. It's a night and day difference, I guess.

I don't think they will be successful, but i hope they prove me wrong. we need it.

[torchbearer]

there is such a huge libertarian presence in my district that a second libertarian has qualified for the ballot. and a third is considering.
we have a jungle primary with run-off.... so this could get interesting.

[Bastiat's The Law]

13 Maine Republicans Are Done With The GOP, Decide To Leave Party
The Huffington Post | By Chris Gentilviso Posted: 08/19/2013 6:24 pm EDT | Updated: 08/19/2013 11:12 pm EDT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/maine-republicans-gop_n_3781973.html


How do Republicans govern? Do they walk away from their positions? Do they leave their friends out to dry? Do they say, I'm leaving but now that I have less influence on you, this is what you need to do? I'm sorry but the average Republican is Mark Warden or Aaron Libby. However, if we continue to work with Republicans and try to influence them, they will become closer to that. If we walk away, what happens then?

We get treated like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed shit.

[Keith and stuff]

We get treated like mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed shit.
We are treated amazing in NH. They buy us meals. Take us to fundraisers. Give us books. Constantly meet with us. I'm meeting with a couple dozen state reps tomorrow. The chair of the party spoke at Liberty Forum, 1 of the 2 big FSP events. Previously, a US Senator from NH spoke there. Candidates for governor and congress attend Porcfest. Candidates for governor and congress attend the NHLA Liberty Dinner. Heck, a libertarian wrote the current NHGOP platform. He wasn't the only 1 on the committee but there were other liberty activists on the committee. It's much better than the last platform. I could go on and on. In Maine, the liberty folks had even more direct power in the GOP then we in NH. Of course, they love us here and treat us very well. I don't even care for any more power, it would just away from the time I use to pass and defeat bills, and get people elected. But in NH, the NHGOP knows that we are not only the future of the NHGOP, we are the future of NH politics. If they didn't play nice with us, it could only hurt them. Especially since liberty activists are making inroads within the NHDems, also.

[parocks]

it's a shame how little publicity this got. does kinda seem like a waste

you were there. we talked. you helped the campaign. read my other post. huge scandal?

[parocks]

INSCOM also has significant responsibilities in counterintelligence, force protection, electronic warfare, and information warfare


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Willis_(politician)
He worked with the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) from 1999 to 2008. During that time, from 2000 until 2005,
he served as an IT liaison between INSCOM and the National Security Agency (NSA) personnel divisions.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Intelligence_and_Security_Comma nd
INSCOM also has significant responsibilities in counterintelligence, force protection, electronic warfare, and information warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence
Threats have broadened to include threats from non-national or trans-national groups, including internal insurgents, organized crime,
and transnational based groups (often called "terrorists", but that is limiting).

Counterespionage goes beyond being reactive, and actively tries to subvert hostile intelligence services, by recruiting agents in the foreign service,
by discrediting personnel actually loyal to their own service, and taking away resources that would be useful to the hostile service.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_warfare
Information warfare may involve collection of tactical information, assurance(s) that one's own information is valid,
spreading of propaganda or disinformation to demoralize or manipulate[1] the enemy and the public,
undermining the quality of opposing force information and denial of information-collection opportunities to opposing forces.
Information warfare is closely linked to psychological warfare.





You know what INSCOM is?
Remember when we heard that people with Ron Paul stickers on their cars would be targeted?
Domestic enemies or domestic insurgents or some such?

Well, those kind of things are the kind of things that INSCOM does.
If the Fed Gov wanted to harm or interfere with or sabotage Ron Paul or the "Liberty Movement",
people from INSCOM are possibly the people who would do that.

And we elected, in Augusta in May in Maine, as the National Committeeman, Mark Willis, who worked for INSCOM for 9 years.
He worked as the liason between INSCOM and the NSA. The NSA. Is this person likely to be a Ron Paul supporter? (Yeah, I know, Snowden).
But Willis probably knew something similar to what Snowden knew, and he didn't say anything. No, he became a Ron Paul National Committeeman. Hey, I voted
for him. You get a list. You vote for the people on the list. Where was Brakey?

From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Willis_(politician)
He worked with the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) from 1999 to 2008. During that time, from 2000 until 2005,
he served as an IT liaison between INSCOM and the National Security Agency (NSA) personnel divisions.[4]


Anyway, it's belief that, since last May, all Willis has been trying to do could be considered "Information warfare", or "Counterintelligence"

From Wiki -

United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Intelligence_and_Security_Comma nd
"INSCOM also has significant responsibilities in counterintelligence, force protection, electronic warfare, and information warfare"

Other interesting things from Wiki -

Counterintelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence
Threats have broadened to include threats from non-national or trans-national groups, including internal insurgents, organized crime,
and transnational based groups (often called "terrorists", but that is limiting).

Counterespionage goes beyond being reactive, and actively tries to subvert hostile intelligence services, by recruiting agents in the foreign service,
by discrediting personnel actually loyal to their own service, and taking away resources that would be useful to the hostile service.

and

Information Warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_warfare
Information warfare may involve collection of tactical information, assurance(s) that one's own information is valid,
spreading of propaganda or disinformation to demoralize or manipulate[1] the enemy and the public,
undermining the quality of opposing force information and denial of information-collection opportunities to opposing forces.
Information warfare is closely linked to psychological warfare.

Let's change these definitions around a little bit.

Counterintelligence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence
Threats have broadened to include threats from non-national or trans-national groups, including internal insurgents
(RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT), organized crime,
and transnational based groups (often called "terrorists", but that is limiting).

Counterespionage goes beyond being reactive, and actively tries to subvert hostile intelligence services (RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT),
by recruiting agents (MICHELLE ANDERSON, ETC) in the foreign service (RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT).
by discrediting personnel(BRAKEY, BOYER, DOLPAC, TWEED) actually loyal to their own service (RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT),
and taking away resources (STATE COMMITTEE / RNC SEATS) that would be useful to the hostile service (RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT).

and

Information Warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_warfare
Information warfare may involve collection of tactical information, assurance(s) that one's own information is valid,
spreading of propaganda or disinformation to demoralize or manipulate[1] the enemy (RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT)
and the public, (CHRIS DIXON - UNDERCOVER PORCUPINE - THE ENDLESS BLARING TO QUIT QUIT QUIT)
undermining the quality of opposing force information and denial of information-collection opportunities to opposing forces.
Information warfare is closely linked to psychological warfare.






Ok. Let's compare what has happened, what Willis has been involved in, with what Wiki says INSCOM (which Willis worked for about 10 years, from
1999-2008. If he's working at INSCOM in 2008, it's easy to imagine Willis being sent in as an agent of the government to disrupt the liberty movement,
or the Ron Paul campaign, or whatever the goal was.

Let's start at the convention in August. What the Maine delegation ended up doing was largely his idea. There were heated debates about what to
do, but I don't remember the specifics. My thinking was that their debates didn't need to be so heated, as they were arguing over the appropriate
empty symbolic gesture which removed them from the field of battle. The game had been lost, anyway. I was also hopeful / curious to see if
anybody would take up the suggestions I had made about really making a mess of the RNC. Really doing damage to Romney. They didn't do that.
They did a little march around protest and left. It was fairly clear that the Ron Paul delegates from around the country really weren't
in any mood to, or capable of, taking collective action at the event which would've been effective in achieving whatever goal they might have set.
There were more than enough Ron Paul delegates spread around to make things really interesting and damaging to Romney. Willis was able to
remove all the Maine delegates from the floor (Counterintelligence - taking away resources that would be useful).

Skip to December, and the election of the new GOP Chair. Here is a situation where Brakey and Boyer basically put together a team to pick the
state committeepeople to be on the Ron Paul list in Augusta in May. I would assume that Brakey would simply pick the Chair, and there would
be full unity (all these people owe their spots to Brakey), and Beth would win. But, no, Michelle Anderson wanted Rich and Traci. And encouraged
everyone to do the same. This is not what you should do. Anyway, Rich won.

Then, shortly after that, there was a confusing mess for the Penobscot County Chair. Apparently it was Rich's fault. And, after a few months
Michelle Anderson quit the State Committee and at least 2 other Ron Paul picked State Committeepeople. Chris Dixon at the same time is creating
dissention, pushing and goading people to quit the GOP, quit their seats. Willis wasn't visibly involved in these state and local level doings, but
the locals were supportive of Willis.

Willis, in January, decided to run for RNC Chair. Why? What purpose does this serve? How does this help Liberty?
http://www.onlinesentinel.com/news/willis-claims-gop-leaders-running-smear-campaign_2013-01-18.html?pagenum=full
"A former counter-intelligence agent in the military"
Maine candidate for RNC chairman claims smear campaign against him
Some Republican National Committee members question whether Mark Willis can even serve on panel, nonetheless be named chairman

Listen, not too long ago he was working with the NSA, for INSCOM, and now, Willis is acting like this? You know, all these stunts
which don't make Ron Paul and Ron Paul supporters look good. He isn't hurting the movement by accident, this seems like on purpose.
(But, again, I don't actually know this.) Ron Paul supporters act like idiots is not the message we want to send.

Story Aug 17, about a week ago, from Politico - look, Ashley Ryan is being nice, and Mark Willis is being difficult. (He's the one
who always seems to protest and piss everybody off when he could be working on the plan, as described by Ron Paul, which is to join
the Republican Party and take it over.) http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/rnc-reince-priebus-ron-paul-95633.html

And what just happened this week. Willis quits as National Committeeman. And 6 state committeepeople also quit. That sounds like
Counterintelligence and "taking away resources (STATE COMMITTEE / NATIONAL COMMITTEE SEATS) that would be useful to the hostile service
(RON PAUL CAMPAIGN / LIBERTY MOVEMENT).

Here's NBC news on that:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/20/20105182-off-to-the-races-clinton-drama?lite
“A Maine Republican National Committee member and six state committee members have resigned and left the GOP,
a sign of continued tensions within in the party as it attempts to unify ahead of the 2014 elections,” AP writes.
“Libertarian-leaning RNC member Mark Willis of Washington County and the others resigned in a letter Sunday,
citing concerns about the party's direction in Maine and across the country. The letter was signed by six others Republicans…
All 13 said they are withdrawing from the party.” More: “The group pointed to a number of issues including Maine GOP lawmakers'
failure to override Gov. Paul LePage's veto of the state budget, which raised the meals and lodging and sales taxes.
It also criticized Republicans in Congress for backing ‘feel good,’ restrictive and ineffective gun control legislation.”

Again, I don't know what the truth is, I'm just looking at his resume. Ron Paul was huge huge threat to the military.
He was arguing for huge cuts in military spending. I suspect that the military did not like that one bit.
Since they now do "internal insurgents" - maybe they're sitting around talking at INSCOM in 2008, "hey Willis, why don't get over to
Maine and infiltrate the Ron Paul Campaign and wreck stuff." "Ok" Not saying that happened. In 2008, he was living in Virginia working
for INSCOM. INSCOM does stuff like that. Like Cointelpro. And then, all of sudden, after working for, basically, a spy agency of the Federal Government
who are one of the ones that do the infiltrations, he suddenly loves liberty and moves to Maine in 2008. And then, in 2008 (according to someone
on facebook), starts working for Ron
Paul. Wow, quick conversion from "infiltrating spy"-type to honest liberty lover. Less than a year. Maybe there was actually overlap. Was he
working for the spy agency when he was working for Ron Paul? Maine caucus was Feb 2008, and his wiki page says he was working for them in 2008.
So, January 2008 - working for INSCOM? February 2008 helping Ron Paul in Washington County, Maine, where he never lived before?
Does that seem normal to people? I mean, National Committeeman is a pretty important position. I would think it's an important enough position that
Mark Willis would have to be vetted by higher ups in the Ron Paul campaign. But not necessarily.

This might be a scandal.

Willis = INSCOM = Cointelpro??? read my post

[parocks]

I made one change in bold. This is possibly serious stuff. Can army intelligence infiltrate political campaigns and sabotage them? Willis = INSCOM = Cointelpro??? read post 85


Nothing. Especially if you live in a state like Maine. However, by quitting when they did, it makes them look like they are trying to sabotage the LIBERTY MOVEMENT. That hurts their friends still in the MEGOP. It also helps are future liberty lovers that run for anything in the MEGOP for a few years, because people will be bitter. And it is very odd, considering some of them just won office, and even more, they were actually making impressive inroads. From the outside looking it, it looks like they wanted instant gratification. When they couldn't get it, they took their ball and went him.

Many of us have been working within the GOP for years and developed strong relationships. They folks, from the outside, appear either amateurism or short sighted.

I could be COMPLETELY WRONG and I'm not trying to hate on these people as individuals. They are likely good people but this is exactly the opposite of what liberty folks should be trying to do if they are trying to influence others in the GOP. I've found the GOP where I live extremely welcoming. It's a night and day difference, I guess.

[eleganz]

I actually read pretty much that whole thing, Parocks...

It all sounds pretty good but if he was really counterintelligence, he wouldn't have quit. He would've stayed for the 2016 showdown. As one of the few Ron Paul RNC members, he had a direct line to the official campaign and was probably staying in touch with key members of Rand's staff (Ron's former staff). If he really was a spy, he would've stayed.

This is funny as we were just talking about political operatives and spies the other day.... :D

There are probably spies in all of the major RP groups, this I wouldn't be too surprised with...